Podcast Summary: Reversing Diabetes Naturally: The Science Big Medicine Ignored

Title: The Dr. Hyman Show
Host: Dr. Mark Hyman
Guests: Gary Taubes, Mimi Grishman, Sarah Hallberg, Sammy Inkonen
Episode Release Date: April 28, 2025

Introduction

In this enlightening episode of The Dr. Hyman Show, Dr. Mark Hyman delves into the transformative potential of dietary interventions in reversing type 2 diabetes. Joined by renowned author Gary Taubes and experts Mimi Grishman, Sarah Hallberg, and Sammy Inkonen, the discussion challenges conventional medical approaches dominated by pharmaceutical interventions and underscores the significance of personalized nutrition.

Understanding Diabetes and Carbohydrate Metabolism

Gary Taubes initiates the conversation by highlighting the paradox in carbohydrate metabolism:

Gary Taubes [00:02]: "Patients do well if you don't feed them carbs. How weird is that? It's a disorder of carbohydrate metabolism. If you tell them not to eat it, they do fine."

This statement sets the stage for exploring how reducing carbohydrate intake can effectively manage and even reverse diabetes, positioning it as a metabolic dysfunction rather than a purely chronic disease.

Traditional Approaches vs. Dietary Interventions

Dr. Hyman critiques the longstanding medical model that relies heavily on medications to manage diabetes:

Gary Taubes [04:31]: "They [medical trials] actually were able to reverse [type 2 diabetes]. Not just slow it down or delay the complications or to manage the disease, but literally to reverse it."

Traditional methods often lead to a progressive need for additional drugs without addressing the root cause—dietary habits. Taubes emphasizes that reducing carbohydrate intake can mitigate the necessity for continual pharmacological interventions.

Virta Health's Role in Diabetes Reversal

Sammy Inkonen, representing Virta Health, shares insights into their innovative approach:

Sammy Inkonen [10:46]: "We could just convince insurance companies and employers that they could save money as diabetes is an expensive disorder… create this company, Virta Health."

Virta Health leverages a low-carb, high-fat ketogenic diet combined with telemedicine and personalized coaching to reverse diabetes. Their model focuses on supporting patients in making sustainable dietary changes, thereby reducing reliance on medications and improving overall metabolic health.

Hormones and Appetite Regulation

The discussion transitions to the hormonal mechanisms influenced by diet:

Sarah Hallberg [25:06]: "When folks increase their fat intake… the hormones that drive appetite are naturally suppressed and the hormones that signal satiety go up."

Dr. Hyman elaborates on how a well-formulated ketogenic diet can enhance hormones like GLP1, which regulate hunger and satiety, potentially eliminating the need for appetite-suppressing drugs like Ozempic.

Comparison to Pharmaceutical Interventions

The conversation juxtaposes dietary interventions with pharmaceutical treatments:

Gary Taubes [18:46]: "Chronic progressive disease, diabetic complications, more and more drugs, complications of drugs. This way, as far as we can tell, and we can't, you know, there are unknown, unknowns here. As far as we can tell, if you eat this way, you'll be fine."

The guests argue that while medications can manage symptoms, they do not address the underlying metabolic dysfunction. In contrast, dietary changes can reverse insulin resistance and improve metabolic health without the side effects associated with long-term drug use.

Critique of Red Meat and Diabetes Study

A significant portion of the episode is dedicated to dissecting a flawed observational study linking red meat consumption to type 2 diabetes. Mimi Grishman and Gary Taubes highlight several methodological issues:

1. Study Design Flaws:

   • Food Frequency Questionnaires (FFQs): These tools are inherently inaccurate as they rely on participants' memory and honesty about their dietary intake.

   Gary Taubes [25:06]: "They used a food frequency questionnaire. These are highly inaccurate."

2. Confounding Variables:

   • Participants consuming more red meat also exhibited other unhealthy behaviors such as higher BMI, smoking, and lower physical activity, which the study did not adequately adjust for.

   Mimi Grishman [72:24]: "They did not adjust for adiposity… the people who ate more red meat were more overweight."

3. Calibration Issues:

   • The study artificially inflated risk percentages through statistical manipulations known as calibration.

   Gary Taubes [15:19]: "The calibration doubled the effect for total red meat, processed meat and unprocessed red meat… before the calibration was 28%, after it was 47%."

4. Inconsistent Serving Sizes:

   • Variations in serving size definitions across different phases of the study led to inconsistent and unreliable data.

   Gary Taubes [21:31]: "The serving size of bacon is one slice, but before it was two slices."

5. Contradictory Findings:

   • The study reported higher diabetes risks for total red meat intake compared to its processed and unprocessed forms, which defies logical consistency.

   Gary Taubes [22:54]: "Total red meat intake had a higher risk of diabetes than both processed and unprocessed red meat. So that doesn't make sense."

The hosts argue that such studies are often misconstrued by media to promote plant-based diets without considering the complexities and limitations inherent in observational research.

Functional Medicine Perspective on Type 2 Diabetes

Mimi Grishman introduces the functional medicine approach, focusing on insulin resistance as the root cause of type 2 diabetes. Key strategies include:

• Eliminating Ultra-Processed Foods: Reducing intake of sugar, refined grains, and high-starch foods.

  Mimi Grishman [44:15]: "The root cause is something called insulin resistance. And this comes from eating a diet that's high in sugar, refined flour, grains, ultra-processed food."

• Emphasizing Quality Nutrition: Incorporating good quality proteins, healthy fats, fiber-rich fruits and vegetables, and minimally processed carbs.

• Comprehensive Testing: Utilizing advanced biomarkers to assess metabolic health, including fasting glucose, insulin levels, and inflammatory markers.

Conclusions and Implications for Health

The episode concludes with a strong advocacy for personalized, nutrition-based interventions over generalized dietary guidelines and pharmaceutical management. The guests collectively emphasize that:

• Dietary Interventions Are Sufficient: Properly managed low-carb diets can reverse insulin resistance and type 2 diabetes without the need for lifelong medication.

• Systemic Change Is Necessary: Addressing the root causes of metabolic dysfunction can alleviate not only diabetes but also reduce risks for various other health complications.

• Critique of Current Research Practices: Emphasizes the need for more rigorous, causative research in nutrition science to inform public health policies accurately.

Sarah Hallberg [35:25]: "If you could prevent… teach people to eat well and keep them healthy, that's better for everyone."

This episode serves as a compelling argument for rethinking diabetes management through the lens of functional medicine and personalized nutrition, challenging the predominant pharmaceutical-centric approach.

Notable Quotes

• Gary Taubes [00:02]: "Patients do well if you don't feed them carbs. How weird is that? It's a disorder of carbohydrate metabolism. If you tell them not to eat it, they do fine."

• Gary Taubes [15:52]: "We don't know the short, the midterm and long term side effects of exogenous drugs, but we know the side effects of healthy food."

• Sarah Hallberg [27:14]: "Preserving and de-stressing that beta cell is critical."

• Dr. Mark Hyman [20:25]: "She's … just put her off, you know, grains and beans, sugar, processed food, put her on lots of good fats… within three months she was off her medications."

Final Thoughts

This episode of The Dr. Hyman Show provides a thorough examination of the potential for dietary interventions to reverse type 2 diabetes, backed by expert insights and critical analysis of current research. It advocates for a paradigm shift towards personalized nutrition and functional medicine, challenging established medical practices and encouraging listeners to reconsider their approach to managing metabolic health.