← The Dr. Hyman Show
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- [00:00]
Dr. Mark Hyman
Coming up on this episode of the Dr. Hyman Show.
- [00:03]
Dr. Daniel Amen
So fixing your brain starts with fixing your body and optimizing all the inputs into your system and minimizing the bad stuff. The bad inputs whether it's stress, poor diet, toxins, allergens, bad bugs, drugs like caffeine, alcohol, sugar, whatever is causing your brain to not work.
- [00:21]
Dr. Mark Hyman
Feeling tired, tense or foggy. Magnesium might be the missing link. Most people are low and standard supplements don't cut it. Magnesium Breakthrough gives you all seven essential forms in one powerful formula. Better sleep, less muscle tension, mental clarity, all with no laxative side effects. Try Magnesium Breakthrough by bioptimizers@bioptimizers.com Hyman for 10% off before we jump into today's episode, I want to share a few ways you can go deeper on your health journey. While I wish I could work with everyone one on one, there just isn't enough time in the day. So I've built several tools to help you take control of your health. If you're looking for guidance, education and community, check out my private membership the Hymenhive for live Q&As, exclusive content and direct connection. For real time lab testing and personalized insights into your biology, visit Function Health. You can also explore my curated doctor trusted supplements and health products@doctor hyman.com and if you prefer to listen without any breaks, don't forget you can enjoy every episode of this podcast ad free with Hyman plus just open Apple Podcasts and tap. Try free to start your seven day free trial.
- [01:25]
Dr. Daniel Amen
Your brain is not just this disembodied organ that is sitting in your skull, connected from the rest of what's going on in your body. We learned about the blood brain barrier in medical school, but that's ridiculous. The brain is constantly interacting, communicating with everything going on in your body. Yes, you have a blood brain barrier, but it's not like it's something that's just inviolable, it's permeable and things go across and impact it. So everything that's happening in your body impacts your brain. In fact, the title of my book the Ultramind Solution was how to. You know, how to fix your broken brain brain by fixing your body first. Right? Fixing your body first and then you can see. Well then maybe I have some issues with my thoughts and my emotions and my feelings and my trauma, whatever. But if you, if you are eating a crappy diet, if you're drinking too much, if you're smoking, if you're not exercising, if you have mercury poisoning, if your Vitamin D is low if you're B12 deficient. If your thyroid's not working, your brain's not going to work. So you just got to figure out how to get your brain healthy. So fixing your brain starts with fixing your body and optimizing all the inputs into your system and minimizing the bad stuff, right? The bad inputs, whether it's stress, poor diet, toxins, allergens, bad bugs, drugs like caffeine, alcohol, sugar, whatever is causing your brain to not work, the brain is pretty resilient, and it can recover and heal given the right conditions. And I've seen miracles. I've seen people reverse Alzheimer's, reverse autism, reverse add, reverse depression, things that bipolar disease, schizophrenia. I mean, you just wouldn't even imagine how powerful this is. In fact, Christopher Palmer, who's been on a podcast, talked about how we use a ketogenic diet to reverse Alzheimer's and optimize mitochondrial function as a key way to treating mental illness. There's departments of Metabolic psychiatry at Stanford, of Nutritional Psychiatry at Harvard. So we now actually have an understanding that the stuff I was talking about 15 years ago, by the way, was way ahead of its time and also extremely important to understand if we're going to fix our brains. About 30 years ago, almost, I developed chronic fatigue syndrome. And it felt like I had dementia, depression, and ADD all at once. My brain was broken. I really couldn't focus. I couldn't pay attention. I used to be able to see 30 patients a day, remember all their medical history. Nick Tatum, at the end of the day with no problem, I couldn't at, like, remember where I was at the end of a sentence from where I started. I couldn't read my kids a book out loud and actually understand at the same time. My brain really was broken. I couldn't sleep, I was exhausted. And I learned that I had mercury poisoning, and that broke my brain. My brain was just a mess. I had terrible brain fog. I couldn't focus for much time. I was a physician trying to, like, practice medicine. It was really tough. I couldn't even remember my patient names. And I knew I had to do something different. And that's when I discovered functional medicine almost 30 years ago. And when I reversed my chronic fatigue, when I detox from mercury, when I fixed all the other systems in my body, my mitochondria, my gut, my immune system, everything that was going wrong, I was able to reverse my chronic syndrome and my brain got better. And since then, I've written 18 books in 20 years. My brain is great I feel good and I'm sharper, faster and better than ever. So what's the worst things we do for our brains? Well, we have too much sugar and fine starch, carbs and not enough good fats and not enough intake of the right nutrients. A lot of nutrient deficiencies, omega 3s, vitamin D, magnesium, to name a few, that are critical for brain health. And that affects over 50 to 90% of the population with deficiencies in those nutrients. Also, we're exposed to all kinds of weird things in our diet that are chemicals like artificial sweeteners like msg, environmental toxins, they actually cause damage to the brain. Heavy metals, all these things damage our brain. So a lot of things cause brain damage. Not just what I mentioned, but things like lack of sleep, too much stress, not exercising, overuse of certain substances like alcohol or other drugs. Now, I found over the years really fascinating to me. It's really quite amazing that people don't connect how they feel with what they eat or how much they rest or sleep. You know, how much they exercise or how much time they take for friends and community and connection and, or how much bad news and media they're exposed to. I had a patient said, geez, doctor, I'm so tired, I don't know what to do. I'm always tired, my brain's not working. I said, well, how much do you sleep at night? Goes well, five, six hours. And I'm like, well, get eight hours sleep and try to see what happens, right? So you just don't connect the dots. Now once you make those connections, you can start to change those simple habits that can have profound effects on your health long term and make a lot of little small changes that can make profound impact. Now feeling fully focused, fully energized, having great brain health, it requires really following the principles of functional medicine, which is taking out the bad stuff and putting in the good stuff. It's taking out the bad food, toxins, allergens, microbe, stress, adding in the good stuff, the right whole foods, nutrients, balancing hormones, light, air, water, sleep, relaxation, connection, meaning love, purpose. All these things are necessary for our brain to function properly. And most of us don't get enough of the good stuff. We don't get whole real food. We often are deficient nutrients, we're not exposed enough natural light, we don't get enough fresh air, we don't drink clean water because most of it's polluted. We don't have periods of deep rest and relaxation, we don't sleep enough, we don't live in rhythm we don't exercise. We're too focused on being busy in our careers and all kinds of stuff to focus on community and meaning and purpose and love and. And so we basically have to optimize those things in order for us to be healthy. One of the things that I really focus on, well, food is the number one thing that controls your brain. And we've seen miracles by simply people changing their diet from treating depression to Alzheimer's to everything from ADD to, to even schizophrenia, as I mentioned. So eating real food is so important. When I say real food, I mean real food, not processed food or ultra processed food. Whole organic, fresh, local, unprocessed food. Basically it has a barcode or a label. You might want to get rid of it. If your great grandmother wouldn't recognize it as food, don't eat it. Does she know what a lunchable is or a pop Tart? Probably not. Junk food is just bad. Fast food is bad. Ultra processed food is bad. Some processed foods, okay, A can of sardines is processed, right? It's in a can. It's got salt, maybe oil. Can of tomatoes is processed. It's tomatoes, water and salt, that's okay. But if you can't recognize where it came from like a Pop Tart, you probably don't want to eat it. And some things that seem like real food are really not. Like yogurt. Yogurt is often filled with high fructose corn syrup. Colors, additives, gums, thickeners, all these things are pretty, pretty nasty for us. Also, you want to eat a lot of colorful fruits and vegetables. I know you hear me say this all the time, but are full of phytochemicals. These attack the brain. The deep dark reds, yellows, oranges, greens, blues are so important because the color is where the phytochemicals are. It's where the medicine is. These are anti inflammatory compounds. They're detoxifying compounds, antioxidants. They're mitochondrial, boosting energy producing compounds, brain powering molecules. We need to eat that. So get lots of cultural plant foods. Blueberries, dark green, leafy vegetables. Also go for the slow carbs, not the fast carbs, right? I'm not saying, you know carbs. I mean basically broccoli is a carb, but it's quite different than white bread or from sugar. Cauliflower and ice cream are all carbs, right? But it, you know, cauliflower is good for you, but an ice cream sundae is probably not. Right? So eating whole plant foods also with lots of fiber helps to reduce the surges of sugar that cause some of the problems. In fact we call Now Alzheimer's, type 3 diabetes. It's like diabetes of the brain from too much sugar. So eating lots of fiber helps slow the surge of sugar. Nuts, seeds, lots of veggies, whole grains, beans, all really can be very helpful. And it also keeps your gut healthy. And by the way your gut and your brain are connected. You need, you need to maintain your healthy microbiome to actually protect your brain health and prevent Alzheimer's. Also fat. The brain is made up of 60% omega 3 fat. It's mostly fat in your brain. So you need to be a fathead. And going on low fat diets are pretty bad for the brain. In my book Eat Fat, get Thin, I talk about fats a lot and when the good fats, what are the bad fats and how to get the omega 3 fats from your diet from algae or fish. My brain worked pretty good before, but I actually have gotten on a better fat diet including things like MCT oil which is really powerful for the brain. And my, my focus and my clarity has just gone through the roof now. Also you want to optimize protein, we need protein. Because if you lose muscle because you don't eat enough protein, it leads to this cascade of problems with low muscle mass, that's fatty deposits in your muscle, leads to pre diabetes, lowers your testosterone, which you need for brain function, lowers growth hormone, which you need for brain repair, increases cortisol, which causes brain damage, literally causes the shrinking of your hippocampus, the memory center of the brain. So you want to make sure that you're having enough protein, ideally animal protein, which is better able to build muscle. And when you age faster, your brain takes a hit, it shrinks. So you can keep your brain good by eating good fats and the right amounts of protein. Omega 3 eggs, protein shakes, I like virginity based goat whey for a protein shake in the morning, nut butters, fish for breakfast, all that is great. Also stop poisoning your brain. Get rid of all the bad stuff, Sugar, high fructose, corn syrup, trans fats, food additives, preservatives, environmental chemicals, all which really are a problem. Supplements also very important for the brain. A good quality multi magnesium is important for the brain. Calms the brain, it reduces the stimulation of the NDMA receptors which is actually producing Alzheimer's risk. Vitamin D is important for the brain. Omega 3 fats, probiotics, all the B vitamins, folate, B6, B12 are critical for your brain and your neurotransmitter function. And you can find all these versions, the best versions, the cleanest versions, at my online store, store.Dr.hyman.com along with other brain boosting supplements. So you need to design a plan for your life that includes your overall health, but you ought to incorporate some of these important practices for your brain. But the good news is what prevents brain problems, prevents heart disease, prevents cancer, prevents diabetes and everything else. So not like you do a million different things, but these principles are really important for brain health.
- [12:11]
Dr. Andrew Huberman
Happiness is a brain function, so that's number one. When your brain is unhealthy, you're likely to be unhealthy, happy. And so, you know, it's like, why'd I write this book? It's like, Americans are the unhappiest they have been since the Great Depression. So given the pandemic, the political divide, the societal unrest, social media and the national media controlling the dialogue, and they go after fear because that activates the limbic structures in the brain that gets people to pay attention. And so we're fear, fight, or flight.
- [13:00]
Dr. Daniel Amen
It's the reptile. So they appeal to your reptile.
- [13:04]
Dr. Andrew Huberman
They do. And a lot of people wake up with negativity and sadness because that's been planted in our brain through evolution, because thousands of years ago, you had to wake up and be afraid because that was a survival mechanism. So that is why the brain pays attention to negativity faster than to positive messages. And I'm like, okay, we're so unhappy that I want to spend a year thinking about, studying, writing about happiness. And so I got 500 consecutive patients Damon clinics, and we gave them the Oxford Happiness Questionnaire. And then we looked at their brains and what we found. The unhappier you were, the lower activity in the front part of the brain you had, and the lower activity in an area of the brain called the basal ganglia, which has the nucleus accumbens, which is the part of your brain that responds to dopamine. And so things like head trauma or toxic exposure, and so much of it I learned from you. I don't know if I. I know I've told you, but you've just been a huge mentor of mine that I buy your books for all of my doctors. We have almost 70 doctors now.
- [14:36]
Dr. Daniel Amen
Thank you. I'm getting so many royalties. Thank you.
- [14:40]
Dr. Andrew Huberman
And I love looking at the brain. You know, that's sort of my thing, what I do. And it was just so clear if your brain wasn't healthy, you were not likely to be happy. So the first strategy that nobody knows about is get your brain right and your mind will follow. And there are a whole bunch of strategies on how to do that. The second one, which I just stop you right there.
- [15:11]
Dr. Daniel Amen
Could I just stop right? That is such an important statement you just said. I don't want to go over it so quickly. Your brain is your brain, which is this putty like structure in your skull. And your mind is who you are.
- [15:22]
Dr. Mark Hyman
It's your thoughts, it's your feelings, it's your perceptions. And your mind function is determined by your brain function.
- [15:29]
Dr. Daniel Amen
And yes, you can overpower your brain, brain function if you're really strong willed in many ways. But it's really important insight to understand that your brain and the quality of health of your brain determines the quality of your mind. That's a big insight that most people don't realize. Your brain creates your mind, right? If you look sad, I'm depressed, I'm.
- [15:51]
Dr. David Perlmutter
Anxious, but they go, oh, it's, it's.
- [15:52]
Dr. Daniel Amen
It'S like a sore ankle, it's like a, like a, like a, like a stomach ache. But your brain can't have a stomachache or a sore ankle, so it has a mood change, right?
- [16:01]
Dr. Andrew Huberman
So you and I have been blessed to see some really cool people. And I was in Justin Bieber's docu series in 2020 called Seasons, and he came to me at a really low point. And like many of these young superstars, they'll show up or not. They'll do what you say or not. And when he got really low, he showed up and he said, I think I get what you're trying to tell me. My brain is an organ like my heart is an organ. And if you told me I had heart problems, I'd do everything you said. He said, so I'm going to do everything you say. Changed his diet, did hyperbaric oxygen IV therapy, and he's better now than ever. He was just nominated for a bunch of Grammys that I'm so proud of him. But if you don't get your brain right, yeah, it's really hard if you think of it like hardware and software got to optimize the physical function of your brain and then you can program it and we have faulty programming, we'll talk about that. But you first have to get the hardware right.
- [17:13]
Dr. Daniel Amen
Exactly. So keep going on the seven things. I stopped you after the first one.
- [17:18]
Dr. Andrew Huberman
So the second one is happiness is geared to your brain type. One of the big lessons I learned from imaging early on is that all psychiatric illnesses, all of Them are not single or simple disorders. They all have multiple types. Giving someone the diagnosis of depression is exactly like giving them the diagnosis of chest pain. And nobody thinks about it like that. But it's absolutely true that, that, you know, nobody gets a diagnosis of chest pain. Why? Because it doesn't tell you what's causing it and it doesn't tell you what to do for it. I mean, you're not going to give everybody nitroglycerin. I mean, that would be stupid, right? But now we think of depression. Oh, you're depressed, take Lexapro or you're depressed, take Luvox, which is really interesting. We may talk about that in the pandemic, but yeah, it turned out to be for Covid. Yeah, it's really interesting and I think I know why. But ADD is not one thing. It's seven different things. One of my best selling books of all time, Healing add. I talk about seven different types. And then when I was thinking about happiness, I'm like the thing that makes spontaneous people happy. Like scary movies and having an affair or jumping out of an airplane. The persistent person would actually those things would make him or her miserable. And so it's really important to know your type. There are five primary types. Are you Balance. That means you know, most any reasonable thing will make you happy. Spontaneous, you need novelty or you're not happy. Persistent, you need routine or you are not happy. Sensitive, you need connection. They were damaged most in the pandemic with the isolation and the cautious people. They need peace to make them happy. And so know your type. I have a online quiz called our brain health assessment. Brain health assessment.com you'll see which of the 16 types you have and, and then, well, what are the things more likely to make you happy? And all of these strategies have questions. And for get your brain right, the question the little tiny habit. I don't know if you know BJ Fogg, but I worked with him.
- [19:59]
Dr. David Perlmutter
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
- [20:00]
Dr. Andrew Huberman
Six months on tiny habits. So we have 50 tiny brain habits. But the mother of all tiny habits for the brain is for strategy one. Is this good for my brain or bad for it? So when you go to do something, you just ask yourself, this is good for my brain or bad for it?
- [20:21]
Dr. Mark Hyman
Magnesium doesn't get the spotlight like vitamin D or omega 3s, but it should. It helps regulate mood, hormones, energy, sleep, and even blood sugar. And yet most of us are either deficient or barely scraping by, thanks to stress, caffeine, processed food and even depleted soil. That's where magnesium Breakthrough from Bioptimizers comes in. Unlike typical supplements that only use one form, this delivers seven forms of magnesium to support key systems in the body like your brain, muscles, digestion, heart and stress response all in one capsule. You get support for sleep, mood, focus and energy without the harsh laxative side effects that come from using the wrong form. Whether you're dealing with occasional tension, hormonal shifts, or just feel off magnesium, Breakthrough helps fill in the gap fast. Go to bioptimizers.com hyman to get 10% off today.
- [21:10]
Dr. Andrew Huberman
So when we were at Saddleb, first fight with Pastor Warren was you got to get rid of the donuts. Are it's good for your brain or bad for it? I mean, obviously it's bad for. I don't know if you remember that, but I do.
- [21:24]
Dr. Daniel Amen
And the soda, the pancake breakfast, the mischievous thing we had our workout offer. They did good, though. I would say I was impressed at the scale change that they did so quickly. It was very impressive.
- [21:37]
Dr. Andrew Huberman
It's amazing. And then the question for the second strategy, am I doing something today that makes me uniquely happy? So it's really diving into happiness is not the same thing for everybody. So don't say it's novelty and gratitude, appreciation and fun and comedy, because it's different. Based on your type, three you'll appreciate is supplement your brain. We live in a society of deficiencies. And if you're nutrient deficient, especially serotonin, you know, most people don't know that birth control pills deplete serotonin. And I've seen this over and over in teenage girls. They go on birth control pills and now they're anxious or they're depressed and no one's thinking it's changing their neurotransmitters. And my favorite happy supplement is Saffron. I've been following the science of saffron for 20 years. 24 randomized controlled trials against Proac, Paxil, Zoloft, Imipromate, Effexor, equally effective. But rather than being antisexual, you know, put someone on an SSRI and they have trouble having an orgasm or their libido goes down. Saffron is pro sexual and it makes them more interested. And there are studies showing that Saffron helps with memory even in people with mild cognitive impairment. So when the pandemic started, I just released a product I love called Happy Saffron. Saffrons that can curcumins. And I'm like, right at the beginning of the pandemic, my dad died. I had to Close our Manhattan clinic. I mean, it was a disaster. I'm like, I'm taking this. So this is the supplement. I take many of them, but that's my favorite one. And so I think we might agree probably everybody should take a really good multiple vitamin. Everybody should take an omega 3 fatty acid. You should optimize your vitamin D level, test it, odds are it's low. And then work to get it high normal because we're in a pandemic. And then it depends on your brain type. So our spontaneous people do better with stimulating supplements like Rhodiola. Our persistent people do better with serotonin boosting supplements like 5 HTP. The sensitive people do better with Saffron or Sammy. And the cautious people do better with Gaba theanine magnesium. I'm just a huge fan. And too often, you see, this is people go to their family doctor, their nurse practitioner, and they ends up on a benzo. And it's like, no, no, no, that's like 20th on the list. Let's do meditation, diaphragmatic breathing. Let's try Gaba and magnesium. Please don't do that, because why would you start something. Whatever, somebody can't stop. And I see them creating so many problems with, with inappropriate medication use.
- [25:15]
Dr. Daniel Amen
Well, they don't even work that well.
- [25:16]
Dr. Mark Hyman
That's the thing.
- [25:16]
Dr. Daniel Amen
I mean, if you took Prozac and you were cured and you were happy.
- [25:19]
Dr. David Perlmutter
Life was good, wonderful, but it just.
- [25:22]
Dr. Daniel Amen
Basically no better than a placebo for.
- [25:23]
Dr. Mark Hyman
Mild or moderate to depression.
- [25:25]
Dr. Daniel Amen
So, you know.
- [25:26]
Dr. Andrew Huberman
Correct.
- [25:26]
Dr. Daniel Amen
That's another problem.
- [25:28]
Dr. Andrew Huberman
Well, the pharmaceutical industry doesn't want to be in the order business. I mean, they consciously made the decision to be in the reorder business that once you start something for a lot of psychiatric medications, they change your brain to need them in order for you to feel normal. So many people are just wickedly afraid of going off antidepressants because of the withdrawal from them. And I'm not opposed to medication, I'm just opposed to. That's like the first and only thing you do without getting someone's diet right, without getting their habits right.
- [26:12]
Dr. David Perlmutter
Well, that's so true.
- [26:13]
Dr. Daniel Amen
I mean, you also talk about in the book this whole idea of four circles of happiness as an exercise you do to make you happy. What is that?
- [26:22]
Dr. Andrew Huberman
Well, when I was in medical school, actually the first week, our dean came in the classroom and he said, never think of patients as their diagnosis. Always think of them in four big circles. And it's just stuck with me. He went to the board and he drew the first circle, which is the biological circle. So as a doctor, you need to know, know all about their biology. And as psychiatrists, for me, you know, our primary organ is the brain. So brain health, as we talked about. The second circle is the psychological circle, which involves development and how they think. And secret number five is master your mind and gain psychological distance from the noise in your head, which we'll talk about super fun circle, but it's basically the psychological circle. And then he drew things that you.
- [27:16]
Dr. Daniel Amen
Said is never don't believe every stupid thought you have.
- [27:21]
Dr. Andrew Huberman
And, and I didn't learn that Till I was 28 years old in my psychiatric residency at the Walter Reed Army Medical Center. And I'm like, my eyes got really big because, you know, I've struggled with anxiety and, and I'm like, why didn't they teach me that in third grade?
- [27:39]
Dr. Daniel Amen
Right?
- [27:39]
Dr. Andrew Huberman
Just because I have a thought has nothing to do with whether or not it's true, whether or not it's whether or not I should attach to. And it's not the thoughts you have that make you suffer, it's the thoughts you attach to that make you suffer. And then he drew the third circle, which is the social circle. He said in the social circle, it's how are your, how are your patients relationships and what's their social situation? And you know, two years into this pandemic, the social situation for so many people has just been a disaster from the societal unrest, the political divide at Christmas. I had never seen family division like I have seen, and I'm saddened by it. And I kept telling my patients over and over and over again without connection. You have no influence. So you're a vaxxer, you're an anti vaxxer, whatever. You know, people were like not getting together and angry at each other. And I'm like, if you don't stay connected, you have no influence on the other person. And then the last circle, which I just love so much, is the spiritual circle. It's why do you care? You know, what is your deepest sense of meaning and purpose? Your relationship with God, with the planet, with the past, with the future, and really talking about that with my patients. And I have to tell you, Mark, nine out of 10 patients, when I ask them what their goals are and why they think they're on the planet, they haven't thought about it. And I'm like, you know, a business is not going to go unless it has a mission statement and a purpose and a strategic plan. And so that's actually number seven of the happiness Secrets is live each day based on clearly defined values, purpose, and goals, and purposeful people are happier. But if you don't know. And there's a great exercise in the book on how to find your purpose that I love. And, you know, one of my favorite patients that came out last year, that I've been her doctor for about 11 years, is Miley Cyrus. And I love her so much. And she has just grown up so much in the last couple of years. And she's very purposeful. She knows what she's about and what she wants to accomplish. And her bad habits didn't fit. And ultimately, that's the question to ask for. Secret number seven is, does it fit? Does my behavior fit the goals I have for my life?
- [30:39]
Dr. Alberto Villoldo
You know, especially when you look at the statistics. If you get to be 75, one out of two people will have diagnosable Alzheimer's. If you get to be eight, I'm sorry, one out of three, you get to be 80. One out of two people.
- [30:53]
Dr. David Perlmutter
Yeah, this is.
- [30:55]
Dr. Alberto Villoldo
This didn't exist 100 years ago before Dr. Alzheimer's got to put his name on this illness he identified in the Amazon. The thing that amazed me is that the incidence of dementia is 1 out of 100 people. There's very little heart disease.
- [31:10]
Dr. David Perlmutter
It's 1% there and 20% here, 20% here.
- [31:14]
Dr. Alberto Villoldo
It's crazy. And it's, of course, related to our lifestyle.
- [31:18]
Dr. David Perlmutter
So learning how to grow a new brain, pretty important topic.
- [31:20]
Dr. Alberto Villoldo
It's really important. And remember, the brain is fat, so you got to give it the good fat. You cannot turn on the higher brain until you go first in a ketogenic diet. And it doesn't need to be, you know, eating meat three times a day. But you got to go into autophagy. You got to go into start recycling cellular waste and eliminating. And we know how to do that. Now. The beauty of it is, not only do we have the diagnostics, we know how to reverse this stuff. We know how to create a new brain. We know how to help people grow a healthy brain. That's not only going to prevent the dementia, it's going to let them step into this place of diagnosis, of wisdom.
- [31:59]
Dr. David Perlmutter
Yeah, it's interesting. You know, we've had Chris Palmer on the podcast. I'll probably have him back again, who's a Harvard psychiatrist talking about mitochondria as the core dysfunctional unit that is causing most mental illness. Everything from autism to schizophrenia to depression about polio disease. And then we have to treat the mitochondria, but you're also saying that in terms of the aging brain, and not just. Not just that, but also just having a healthy brain. We really have to focus on that. So how does that come up in.
- [32:28]
Dr. Alberto Villoldo
Your book the Mitochondria? It's a big section on mitochondria. And how do we restore mitochondria? They're fuel factories inside every cell. And your brain and your heart have the highest concentration of these fuel fact energy factories in mitochondria. But they're not only producing energy, they are actually in charge of the death clock. And whoever runs the death clock runs the show. They tell cells when they need to die so new ones can be born, so regeneration can take place. But mitochondria have. They're actually. They don't belong to us. They are actually bacteria that join our cells, formed a eukaryotic cell millions of years ago, so that it cut a deal with these multicellular organisms, saying, hey, I'm going to give you energy. You keep me protected, keep me warm, keep me safe. And that's what they do. But what they do is they turn. Basically, they store energy in the form of sunlight, of ATP, of a molecule called ATP, adenosine triphosphate. This is like the little sparklers that kids use. And when they're depleted, that energy goes from being ATP to adp. Adenosine mono amp. Adenosine monophosphate. Your fuel tank is empty. And so this process of storing energy, of processing energy, of protecting the mitochondria, who have 38 genes in a ring that are unprotected because our DNA is 24,000 genes in A.
- [34:07]
Dr. David Perlmutter
And your brain cells have more mitochondria than any other cell in your body per cell.
- [34:13]
Dr. Alberto Villoldo
And they are the feminine life force.
- [34:15]
Dr. David Perlmutter
Like 20,000, 15,000 per neuron per cell.
- [34:19]
Dr. Alberto Villoldo
Yeah. And we only get the mitochondria from our mothers. So they're. They're what the. I heard the Amazon shamans saying, you know, your people, their feminine life force is very weak. And then David Perlmutter said to me, of course it's mitochondria. That's right, because we get it from the mother. So how do we protect, repair? And here's where we get into zombie cells.
- [34:43]
Dr. David Perlmutter
Yeah, Talks about zombie cells. These are the zombies.
- [34:46]
Dr. Alberto Villoldo
Like, like the ones in Haiti, the spiritual.
- [34:49]
Dr. David Perlmutter
No, you're not talking about that.
- [34:50]
Dr. Alberto Villoldo
We kind of. Because zombie cells, these cells are neither living nor dead, and they're actually a cancer protection mechanism that every cell has. So if a cell is not able to copy its DNA's information accurately to a daughter cell, mother cell, their mother cells and daughter cells. There are no daddy cells. If it doesn't copy correctly, it'll neuter that cell. So it cannot replicate because we call that metastases. So it'll neuter it, but it won't kill it. So these cells are not able to reproduce or neither living nor dead. But they're mitochondria. They become fat and swollen and are starting to produce chemical signals, chemokines, cytokines that are pro inflammatory and they're very toxic. But it's a cancer protection mechanism. But when you have too many of these, remember the problem here is the copying. If the copying is not accurate, they get neutered. And what interferes with the copying is the signal to noise ratio or all the toxins we're exposed to. These cells begin to build and we end up with cancers. These senescent cells are called and they were discovered by James Kirkland at Mayo Clinic who did a beautiful gerontologist who said I'm tired of prescribing walkers and wheelchairs. How do we begin to deal with the causes of aging? And he found that there were senolytic agents that actually switched on the kill switch, turned it back on in these cells and you could get rid of them. You could do away with kill the.
- [36:30]
Dr. David Perlmutter
Zombie cells, which are also called senescence is. Senescence is aging. And senolytic means to kill aging. Yeah, kill the aging cells.
- [36:40]
Dr. Alberto Villoldo
So the aging cells.
- [36:41]
Dr. David Perlmutter
So, so how does that work?
- [36:42]
Dr. Daniel Amen
How do you do that?
- [36:43]
Dr. Alberto Villoldo
Well, you, we don't know exactly. At least I don't know how they work. But they seem to switch back on the kill switch in mitochondria.
- [36:51]
Dr. David Perlmutter
And what are the therapies they're using?
- [36:53]
Dr. Alberto Villoldo
And those therapies are combining things like quercetin and fisetin. Fisetin is made from strawberries.
- [36:59]
Dr. Daniel Amen
Yeah.
- [37:00]
Dr. Alberto Villoldo
And quercetin is polyphenol. It's made from onion skins for a variety of products, natural products, and it's a hit and run intervention. Four or five days. And I have a senolytic protocol that we use in our retreat center in Chile that you've been to. And in four or five days you do away. It's a one and done treatment that you need to repeat. We're finding out three or four times a year because we got 40 years or 50 years of senescent cells in us and that what that does is to basically reset the system. You don't have this burden of zombie cells that you need to. That you're that you're functioning with. It cleans you out.
- [37:46]
Dr. David Perlmutter
Yeah, it's true. Also there's a great study out of Israel where they looked at, I talked about in my book Young Forever where they use hyperbaric oxygen over 60 sessions. I actually am doing it right now. I just came from it because of my back surgery to help heal the wound. But the beauty of the hyperbaric is that it actually creates a stress, but it also kills the zombie cells.
- [38:07]
Dr. Alberto Villoldo
Yeah, yeah. And this is, I think essential. Absolutely essential. Our protocol is not only fisetin, quercetin, which is commonly used for this because this will kill the zombie cells. But how do you get rid of them? You got to work on the transport system and support the liver and eliminating them. We're combining it with alpha lipoic acid and with liver support including glutathione, oral glutathione to help to transport and eliminate them out of the body. So they're not just sitting there.
- [38:39]
Dr. David Perlmutter
This is amazing. We're talking about mitochondria, zombie cells and microbiome, serotonin, you know.
- [38:46]
Dr. Alberto Villoldo
But see, this is trauma. This is plant based. This is working with. And the reason you're. You're going to hear a lot more about senescent cells because we're getting to molecular solutions, to pharmaceutical solutions.
- [38:59]
Dr. Daniel Amen
Yeah.
- [39:00]
Dr. Alberto Villoldo
But this is available today. Fisetin strawberries. You'd have to eat 30 pounds of strawberries to get the same effect.
- [39:09]
Dr. David Perlmutter
You can take it as a supplement.
- [39:10]
Dr. Alberto Villoldo
But it's an amazing supplement. Four or five day intervention that lowers your burden.
- [39:16]
Dr. David Perlmutter
Yeah.
- [39:17]
Dr. Alberto Villoldo
Of these toxic cells that are pro. Inflammatory.
- [39:20]
Dr. Daniel Amen
Yeah.
- [39:21]
Dr. David Perlmutter
One of the things that, you know, it's so fascinating is that, you know, we can start to embed these practices into our daily life. And you, and you, you've written this book, Growing a New Brain, which it's not just talking about the theory. You talk about case stories, you talk about and how to do it and.
- [39:36]
Dr. Alberto Villoldo
How to do it.
- [39:37]
Dr. Andrew Huberman
Yeah.
- [39:37]
Dr. David Perlmutter
So can you maybe share some stories about how this would be applied? What are the kinds of things people are doing? How does it work?
- [39:43]
Dr. Alberto Villoldo
First, let me share a story about how I kind of got into on this track because I was running a small lab at San Francisco State. We were looking at can we create psychosomatic health? What are the mechanisms? And I got frustrated at one point, shut the lab down and went to the Amazon to see what they did. People that had no technology, but they had the plants, the natural world, the plant world and the mind. The power of the mind to create we know the placebo effect is the most tested medication in the world because every pharmaceutical is tested against placebo. And we know it's extraordinarily effective. I mean it's 68% as effective as morphine in the case of gunshot wounds. Amazing. So I began looking at what's the placebo effect. We don't know what the mechanism is, but we know it works. We know it works even when the person you're giving the sugar pill to knows that it's a placebo.
- [40:48]
Dr. David Perlmutter
That's amazing.
- [40:49]
Dr. Alberto Villoldo
Is it extraordinary? A lot of the shamanic healing is based on mobilizing this resource that we have to create health that we call, that we dismiss derogatively as a placebo that's just a sugar pill. Well, most of what you're getting in.
- [41:08]
Dr. David Perlmutter
Your pills that you take, you're activating your psychopharmacology. Because I always say the best pharmacy.
- [41:13]
Dr. Mark Hyman
Is the one between your ears.
- [41:14]
Dr. Alberto Villoldo
The one between your ears. Yeah. So this is how what I became interested in. And so how do we do that for ourselves? Well, meditation seems to be one of those things. Practicing inner peace, breathing practices that begin because that's the interface between your. That can allow you to self regulate your, your physiology and your nervous system. So I think we have to discover what works for us. We have to provide the brain with the neural nutrients, the support, get the serotonin. We're serotonin depleted right now. And this is things that we can do immediately. And then turn your kitchen into your laboratory and then take part in why this number of people are calling the experiment of N is equal to one where you have in medicine, if you have a research project, you want N the number of, of participants to be as big as possible. But here the experiment is n is equal 1. My experiment is called Alberto. Yours called Mark.
- [42:18]
Dr. David Perlmutter
I love experimenting on Mark.
- [42:19]
Dr. Alberto Villoldo
Yeah, me too. And the thing is that if you don't do the experiment, you get to be in the control group. And the control group is deadly statistics. Yeah, you want to be an outlier in that bell curve. So we need to take control of our brain today, not outside, outsource it to our digital devices like we've done. You know, the. Our memory functions are all outsourced to our digital devices. I was writing one of our blogs today and it said this thing popped up. Do you want help with writing this blog? It was chat GPT asking me if wanted me to do it. Soon we're only going to be here to clean the machines, so we need to really upgrade our Brain take the next step in human evolution because the one interest couple. Interesting details. There are 40 million species in this planet, more or less, and only three of those don't have a death program in their DNA. And they're humans, dolphins and whales. Every other species in nature has a death program. There are no grandmothers in nature. They're eliminated. Whereas we have not only have grandmothers, but we can live 30, 40 years after menopause. No menopause in nature. It doesn't exist.
- [43:33]
Dr. David Perlmutter
Interesting.
- [43:34]
Dr. Alberto Villoldo
Nature is doing a biology experiment with humans, dolphins and whales in longevity. To take part in that experiment, we need to be proactive in it. We need to attenuate the systems that create psychosomatic disease, the amygdala, the production of cortisol and adrenaline, and switch on the production of the psychedelics that the brain produces. To awaken the higher brain, it requires the psychedelics.
- [44:06]
Dr. Daniel Amen
Well, let's talk about that.
- [44:07]
Dr. David Perlmutter
I was, I was going to close with this because I think, I think this is really an important framework because historically we thought of psychedelics as causing psychological effects, but, but now we know they're causing biological effects and literally structural and functional changes to the brain.
- [44:25]
Dr. Alberto Villoldo
Incredible.
- [44:26]
Dr. David Perlmutter
For example, by increasing BDNF and other brain trophic nutrients, things that are helping the brain grow, repair, heal, reduce inflammation and, and things like, you know, DMT from ayahuasca from, you know, the bufo from the Sonoran Desert toad, the, you know, psilocybin medicines, mdma, which is synthetic chemical, lsd, synthetic chemical or. But that comes from plant ergot. All these are things that have been around for hundreds of thousands and they.
- [44:55]
Dr. Alberto Villoldo
All act in serotonin receptors.
- [44:56]
Dr. David Perlmutter
And they act on the serotonin receptors. But what we're now learning about them is that they can really create profound, lasting changes in the brain in a way, grow a new brain. Tell us how you think about that.
- [45:08]
Dr. Alberto Villoldo
It's amazing. If you've seen the brain on drugs, on psychedelics, you find that there are 20 to 30 times the amount of neural networks.
- [45:18]
Dr. David Perlmutter
Not the Richard Nixon brain on drugs. The fried eggs.
- [45:21]
Dr. Alberto Villoldo
Not the one with the fried egg. Yeah. And the, the problem is that many. So we're doing this experimenting without a traditional sacred structure. So every culture that works with psychedelics knows that you need a diet to prepare for it. A diet that's rich in serotonin, for example, and some of the MAO inhibitors.
- [45:39]
Dr. Daniel Amen
Yeah.
- [45:40]
Dr. Alberto Villoldo
And you need to prepare a sacred space, a safe space, not just drop some acid or give somebody some ketamine. But even then Tremendous healing happens. So that's the chemical effect is what we're looking at. Other societies looked at the sacred. What was the environment? How do you create a safe space? How do you are able to commune with the divine in whatever form you encounter it? And that's part of what we're looking for, that we don't have the answer before that.
- [46:12]
Dr. David Perlmutter
That's true. I think it's true. But I think what's. What's sort of exciting to me is it sort of is this sort of revolution in brain science and the revolution in trauma healing, the revolution, psychedelic medicine, the revolution of the body as a system and network. All these things are coming together. And I think it's going to change everything we think about the brain, the mind, our lives, totally.
- [46:35]
Dr. Alberto Villoldo
It's going to open up door to explore the mind.
- [46:37]
Dr. David Perlmutter
So what does the future look tell us about how you see the future?
- [46:40]
Dr. Alberto Villoldo
I am very optimistic. I see the future as tremendously exciting. I think that there have been five extinction events in the planet before. We're living in the fifth one right now. Started about 15, 20 years ago. More species are dying than the previous one. That's when a gigantic meteorite struck the Earth and wiped out 90% of life forms. During extinction events, nature seems to take the foot off of the break and step on the accelerator, evolutionary accelerator. So it's not only evolution in between generations, but now within generations that we can become a new human.
- [47:15]
Dr. David Perlmutter
That's called epigenetic reprogramming.
- [47:17]
Dr. Alberto Villoldo
Epigenetic reprogramming to become a new human being that can have long life, long health, and can become an Earth keeper, a steward of the Earth, and can experience her and his divine nature.
- [47:34]
Dr. David Perlmutter
So beautiful. Alberto. I mean, you know, I think about it a little scientifically too, which is that this concept that's emerging from our scientific discovery in a way, you know, we talk about shamanic healing, we talk about energy medicine, we talk about kind of healing from trauma. This fundamental concept of epigenetics, which is relatively new, it's the idea that there's a control system regulating our genes, that our genes are fixed, but which ones are turned on or off is regulated by this sort of master coder. And the coder is the epigenome, and that gets programmed generationally. So trauma can be transmitted generationally.
- [48:16]
Dr. Alberto Villoldo
Totally.
- [48:16]
Dr. David Perlmutter
The impact of toxins or crappy food is transmitted generationally, and those impacts are found downstream two or three generations down. So if your grandmother was exposed to glyphosate, you're at risk for all sorts of cancers. And deformities.
- [48:29]
Dr. Daniel Amen
Right.
- [48:29]
Dr. David Perlmutter
If your great grandmother had a trauma, then that might be embedded in your DNA. Like the Holocaust survivors.
- [48:35]
Dr. Alberto Villoldo
Precisely.
- [48:36]
Dr. David Perlmutter
Children and their children and the grandchildren.
- [48:38]
Dr. Alberto Villoldo
Have very low levels of cortisol that been happening for generations.
- [48:42]
Dr. David Perlmutter
So what's exciting is what you're talking about essentially is using the site of science to reprogram the epigenome so you can, can evolve within one generation. So there was this debate between Darwin and Lamarck. Darwin was like, species evolved through natural sex selection over time. Lamarck was like, species come fixed as they are. They're both right in a way. In a way. Right. And so these traits. And he, he was like, traits can evolve even in a generation. So I think I.
- [49:07]
Dr. Alberto Villoldo
Very rapidly.
- [49:08]
Dr. David Perlmutter
Yeah, very rapidly.
- [49:09]
Dr. Alberto Villoldo
Not only that, but we inherit not only the toxic legacy of our ancestors, both biological chemicals, all emotional, but also the gifts, the extraordinary gifts of resilience, of courage, of endurance, of brightness, you know, and we have to begin to tap into that.
- [49:26]
Dr. Mark Hyman
When it comes to supplements, you only want the best for your body. The kind with the highest quality, cleanest and most potent ingredients you can get. That's exactly what you'll find at my supplement store, where I've hand selected each and every product to meet the most rigorous standards for safety, purity and effectiveness. These are the only supplements I recommend to my patients, and they're also what I use myself. Whether you want to optimize longevity or reduce your disease risk, or you're looking to improve your sleep, blood sugar, metabolism, gut health, you name it, Dr. Hyman.com has the world's best selection of top quality premium supplements, all backed by science and expertly vetted by me, Dr. Mark Hyman. So check out Dr.hyman.com because when it comes to your health, nothing less than the very best will do. That's Dr. Hyman.com D R H Y M A N if you love this podcast, please share it with someone else you think would also enjoy it. You can find me on all social media channels at Dr. Mark Hyman. Please reach out. I'd love to hear your comments and questions. Don't forget to rate, review and subscribe to the Dr. Hyman show wherever you get your podcasts. And don't forget to check out my YouTube channel at Dr. Mark Hyman for video versions of this podcast and more. Thank you so much again for tuning in. We'll see you next time on the Dr. Hyman Show. This podcast is separate from my clinical practice at the Ultra Wellness center, my work at Cleveland Clinic and and Function Health where I am Chief Medical Officer. This podcast represents my opinions and my guests opinions. Neither myself nor the podcast endorses the views or statements of my guests. This podcast is for educational purposes only and is not a substitute for professional care by a doctor or other qualified medical professional. This podcast is provided with the understanding that it does not constitute medical or other professional advice or services. If you're looking for help in your journey, please seek out a qualified medical practitioner. And if you're looking for a functional medicine practitioner, visit my clinic, the Ultra Wellness center at ultrawellnesscenter.com and request to become a patient.
- [51:13]
Dr. Daniel Amen
It's important to have someone in your.
- [51:14]
Dr. Mark Hyman
Corner who is a trained, licensed healthcare practitioner and can help you make changes, especially when it comes to your health. This podcast is free as part of my mission to bring practical ways of improving health to the public, so I'd like to express gratitude to sponsors that.
- [51:28]
Dr. Daniel Amen
Made today's podcast possible.
- [51:30]
Dr. Mark Hyman
Thanks so much again for listening.