C (2:37)

Oh, really?

A (2:38)

Yeah, it's very funny.

B (2:39)

It's a great question.

A (2:39)

Yeah. So there's no evidence, but I take.

B (2:43)

It, But I take. Here's a big flaw with a lot of those studies that are cited by trust journals, great journals like jama, for example.

A (2:54)

They're poorly designed.

B (2:55)

They're poorly designed.

A (2:57)

So, you know, they're designed like drugs, I guess. Exactly, exactly.

B (3:00)

Right, exactly. So the problem is when you have a drug trial, randomized controlled trials are the gold standard. Right. You have a drug and then you have a placebo. But the thing is, is that with a drug, everybody has zero levels of that drug in the startup trial, right? So you don't have to measure anything. Right. Because there's nothing to measure until you take the drug.

A (3:20)

There's no like pre ozempic level. Although actually with ozempic is true, you have a GLP one.

B (3:24)

So yeah, bad, bad example. But like statins. So you know, but when you, when you're doing a, you don't have a.

A (3:29)

Normal blood level of Lipitor.

B (3:30)

Right, right, exactly. When you're doing a, a, a study on vitamin D or omega 3 or fill in the blank vitamin, mineral, everybody has varying levels of these micronutrients in their body. And so you have to measure things. You have to measure things. At the start, you might have someone that's already got sufficient levels of vitamin D. They may have 50 nanograms per milliliter level vitamin D. And so you give them a vitamin D supplement and it's not gonna do anything because they're already sufficient. Right. Or the converse is they're so deficient and you give them a supplement that's 400 IUs or 800 IUs, which doesn't raise their blood levels hardly at all, that it doesn't really do anything.

A (4:11)

And so you won't dose is wrong. You don't measure who's sufficient. Like, yeah, I mean, like if you don't have a headache and aspirin doesn't do anything. Right. So it's like if you, if your levels are great of omega 3s and you add omega 3s, you won't see a change in your health.

B (4:23)

Right, exactly. So. So that's the, the fundamental flaw of clinical trials in nutrition. That right there is that, that the, the MDs that are running these trials, are running them like they're drug trials and they're not. You have to measure things. With that said, there have been some well done trials and in fact, I.

A (4:42)

Remember just interrupting the other thing, the other flaw is that they, they will use a single dose of a nutrient that usually works as a team, like, and that can actually make things worse. Like the beta carotene trials, the smokers show that it can cause cancer, but oxidative stress is managed by a whole team of nutrients. So like I would say you could be, you know, you know, Michael Jordan, but if you're playing one against five on a basketball team, you're going to lose every time. Right. Even if he's the best player in the world. So you need a team of, of, of these nutrients, particularly in terms of the oxidative stress cascade, to actually modulate free radicals. And if you give a high dose of one nutrient, you're going to kind of screw up the whole chain.

B (5:26)

Yeah, that is possible. Not to mention the fact that smokers, I mean if you give beta carotene to non smokers, it doesn't cause cancer. But smokers are doing so much oxidative damage and they're getting DNA damage that a high dose of something like beta carotene, which can be an antioxidant, may then allow, you know, some of that, it's basically, it's, it's allowing some of the cells that would otherwise die from the oxidative stress, you know, not to die. Right. And so it's, yeah, it's a very complicated thing when you're doing things like that. But it, you know, I think like it was about 10 years ago, there was a huge study in the annals of internal medicine and it was called Enough is Enough. Vitamins and mineral supplements, not only don't do anything that may be harmful. Yeah, I think that was, do you remember that study? Yeah, it was about 10 years ago.

A (6:09)

Yeah.

B (6:09)

And you know, I, I, I was, I just dug in and it was a meta analysis and I went and looked at all those studies and I found that all these flaws again come.

A (6:17)

You looked at the actual studies that they made their conclusions from. So they do a review and they go, we're gonna look at all these studies and we're gonna make a summary and that's called a meta analysis. And then from that you didn't just take their conclusions, you actually went and looked at the data itself from the original studies.

B (6:32)

Exactly. Yeah. And I put out a video about it like years and years ago and Again, all these flaws that we just talked about were there. And here we are ten years later, and the Cosmos trials was just published. Right. So this is another meta analysis of a couple randomized controlled trials where older adults were given a multivitamin. They had about 20 or so essential vitamins, essential minerals, omega 3 fatty acids, vitamin D. Right. Magnesium. This was all present in this multivitamin. And they were given it for two years.

A (7:02)

Yeah.

B (7:02)

What the study found. These are randomized controlled trials. Placebo controlled. Right. It, the, the, the multivitamin actually did improve brain aging. So they ha. They were less. People taking the multivitamin mineral supplement were less likely to experience cognitive dysfunction, memory loss, and in fact, they experienced a improvement in their brain aging that was equivalent to reversing two years of brain aging.

A (7:29)

Wow. Wow. Yeah.

B (7:31)

Brand mice, controlled trial. Here we are ten years later.

A (7:33)

Yeah. And there's many, many other studies that show the value of nutrients in different conditions.

B (7:38)

Right, Exactly. Yeah. I, you know, I think that it, it comes down to, yes, you should try to get your micronutrients from diet, however, taking, you know, a multivitamin supplement, taking vitamin D, taking omega 3s. Like these are insurance, right? This is insurance to make sure you're getting your optimum levels. So you asked about deficiencies and what are some of the common ones? Well, omega 3. Okay. So about 80% of the world's population and 90% of the US population does not meet the requirements for omega 3 fatty acids. Yeah, that's a lot.

A (8:10)

Which is basically what your body's made of. You know, the cell membranes, your brain, you know, nervous tissue, it's, it runs regulatory inflammation. I mean, it's, it's, it's critical to everything.

B (8:20)

Exactly. And there's been a lot of work by Dr. Bill Harris. So I'm, I'm an associate professor at the Fatty Acid Research Institute with Bill Harris. And so I'm involved in a lot of research on Omega 3 and he's published just an array of studies that are quite convincing. So looking at the omega 3 index. So this is the omega 3 levels in red blood cells, which is sort of like a long term marker for Omega 3 because they take about whatever.

A (8:47)

What does the index actually measure?

B (8:48)

It, it measures the EPA and DHA levels along with a bunch of other fatty acids, if, if you're interested in that. But it's really the EPA and DHA level in the red blood cell membrane.

A (8:59)

Which gives you the index and you want a certain number.

B (9:02)

Exactly. So he's published studies using like the cohort so these are large cohort studies with a lot of people. And he's looked at the omega 3 index and correlated with all cause mortality, so dying from a variety of different causes. And what he's found is that people that have what is defined as a high omega 3 index, so this would be 8% or more.

A (9:25)

Okay.

B (9:25)

Have a five year increased life expectancy compared to people that have a 4% omega 3 index, which is low. And actually the average omega 3 index of the US population is about 5%. Pretty close to that 4%.

A (9:38)

Yeah, yeah. Well, that's why we actually measure that in the function health labs.

B (9:42)

Yeah.

A (9:42)

So it's great to see when we.

B (9:43)

See that five year increased life expectancy. If you think about Japan, Japan who eat, they eat a lot of seafood in Japan.

A (9:49)

Yeah.

B (9:50)

Their omega 3 index on average is like 10%. So they're above the high, the 8%.

A (9:54)

Yeah, yeah. Their mercury levels are probably also very high.

B (9:57)

What's funny, it's funny that you say that, Mark. There's been studies like in pregnant women. Yeah, you probably remember this, that decades ago, women were advised to stop eating fish because of the high mercury mercury. And that actually had a detrimental sort of effect because omega 3 fatty acids, as you mentioned, they're so important for the brain, very important for neurodevelopment. And there have now been a whole host of studies that have come out showing that omega 3 fatty acids actually protect from any potential mercury toxicity in the developing fetus. And in fact, there's been studies looking at children that were born to mothers that had a high level of omega 3 and high mercury. Those children had scored higher on intelligence tests. So IQ scores, even like, even if so. So high mercury was actually biomarker intelligence. It wasn't actually the mercury, it was high omega 3.

A (10:46)

It's crazy.

B (10:47)

But yes, you get, you get the point.

A (10:49)

Although in Japan they eat a lot of seaweed, which. And seaweed is a chelator for heavy metals. Oh, is it? So is green tea, by the way.

B (10:56)

I think garlic. Garlic. The beta beta mercat, mercaptans and garlic as well. Um, but back to the Omega 3. And this study I was talking about from Bill Harris is so interesting because he also, this is a huge cohort of people, the Framingham. There's people that have all sorts of lifestyles including smoking. And so he did a sub analysis looking at smokers and non smokers and their omega 3 index. And what Bill and his associates and colleagues found was that smokers with a high level of omega 3 so they had a high omega 3 index of 8%. They had the same mortality as non smokers with a low omega 3 index.

A (11:34)

Okay, everybody, this does not mean you can smoke and take your own fish oil pills. I don't get any ideas.

B (11:39)

Or if you're not getting enough Omega 3, it's like smoking. Right? I mean, if you look.

A (11:44)

That's another way to look at. Right.

B (11:46)

If you look at the graph of this, I mean, it's incredible. The overlay is perfect.

A (11:50)

Yeah, perfect. Fascinating.

B (11:52)

So having a low omega 3 index had the same mortality risk as smoking.

A (11:57)

Okay, so we're talking about 90% of the American population is in that category.

B (12:02)

Yes, yes. And, you know, there's also been a whole host of randomized controlled trials looking at omega 3s being protect cardio protective. Right. So they're. They're very important for cardiovascular health. Triglycerides.

A (12:15)

Yeah. There's actually prescription Omega 3s which you can pay much, much more than you would if you go get a basic omega 3 for lowering triglycerides as a therapy.

B (12:23)

Right, yeah. And you mentioned inflammation. You know, so this is another thing they do. They play a major role in lowering inflammation. And so that's a driver of aging in. In many ways, brain aging, you know, Cardiovascular Aging. So Omega 3s are, I would say, one of the most profound lifestyle factors that can play a role in. In negating inflammation, aside from exercise.

A (12:47)

Yeah, they're just. They're so. Well, like. Like the word I use is pleomorphic, but it's a big medical word. But essentially it means it does a million things. Right. It's not just one thing. It's great for your skin, for your hair, for your nails, for your brain health, for preventing dementia, cardiovascular disease, cancer. I mean, it regulates inflammation. So these are nutrients that do so many things in the body, then they work differently than drugs. And they're essential. They're called essential because they are essential. And one of the challenges is that we're looking for that in, you know, quick fix. And we're trying to diagnose a real disease that's directly connected to that particular problem. So I'm sure you're familiar with Robert Heaney, who was a vitamin D researcher, and he wrote this beautiful paper years ago called Long latency Deficiency Diseases. And the basic thesis was that in the short term, if you're a nutrient deficient at a severe level, like we used to see, you know, in the 1900s, if your vitamin D is super low, you'll get rickets. Or if you don't have enough vitamin C and you're a sailor, you get scurvy, right? Or if you don't have enough, too much white rice and white flour, which they started doing at the turn of century, you get beriberi and pellagra and all these horrible B vitamin deficiencies. The, the thesis you had essentially is that you can correct those vitamin deficiencies in the short term to fix those deficiency diseases. Like if you're low in folate in the short term, it'll cause anemia, a form of anemia which is big cells called megaloblastic anemia. But in the long run, it can cause cancer and heart disease and dementia and same thing with vitamin D. You know, in the short run you'll get rickets. In the long run you'll get osteoporosis and cancer and die sooner. And so medicine hasn't really gotten that concept. It's like, yeah, if you're deficient, take a vitamin, but otherwise you don't need them, right?

B (14:39)

And that's also very much in line with Bruce's triage theory, right? These micronutrients are running our metabolism, which runs from our heart, pumping blood to neurotransmitter function to repairing DNA. So there's a lot of, you know, you can look in the mirror and if you're, you're vitamin C deficient and your gums start falling apart, you can see, oh, I've got scurvy, I've got scurvy, right? But like when you're magnesium deficient, like, you're not going to see DNA damage.

A (15:04)

Happening, but you might feel muscle cramps and you might have anxiety, you might have constipation, you might have muscle twitching or headaches or a million other things that are symptoms of magnesium deficiencies. Stimulus, loud noises. And so like, as a functional medicine doctor, I take a deep history to look at micronutrient deficiency. Symptoms that are not necessarily pure true deficiency, but more like insufficiency. And I think people sort of don't make that distinction. And I think when you treat people, it's often a miracle when you, when you get the pleat and the nutrients they're deficient in, so many things get better.

B (15:39)

I, I like it, it is insufficiency because most, most people are not deficient. We do have a lot of fortification even in our ultra processed foods because of, you know, preventing neural tube defects, preventing pellagra, like all these diseases that were sort of cropping up like you mentioned in the early fortified.

A (15:56)

But it's like Junk fortified.

B (15:58)

It is, it is, but it seems to stop some of those deficiencies. Right, but it's the insufficiency and with vitamin D, it's a really big one because it is converted into a steroid hormone. So this is something that is going into the nucleus of our cell and binding and interacting with DNA. It has a little sequence of DNA called a vitamin D response element. It's so important there, it's encoded in our DNA. Right. So to not have enough vitamin D. So 70% of the US population doesn't meet the sufficient levels of vitamin D, which is about 30 nanograms per mil. 70%.

A (16:33)

30, which would be, and if you add it up to 45 or 50, it's probably like 80 plus 90%.

B (16:41)

Right? Yeah, so, and, and so that would be there, there have been studies looking at all cause mortality and vitamin D levels. Of course this is again observational, lots of meta analyses out there even dating back for like 30 years. And it seems as though having at least 40 nanograms per mil seems to be a sweet spot. You know, 40 to 60 is a really good place to be where you're having a good level of vitamin D. But again, it's a steroid hormone. It's not, it's, it's regulating over 5% of the protein encoding human genome. That's like thousands of genes, everything from immune function. It plays an important role in preventing autoimmunity brain function. It regulates genes that are important for converting tryptophan into serotonin. Serotonin is an important neurotransmitter that regulates mood, cognitive function, impulse control.

A (17:30)

So vitamin D, maybe I need more of that then.

B (17:34)

Well, and the problem is that vitamin D, typically you make it from uvb, radiation exposure from the sun, but we're.

A (17:41)

All told to shield ourselves from the sun and sunblock. And so we live indoors, work indoors. And yeah, it's a problem. I mean you're all running our half naked hunting and gathering. We got a lot of vitamin D and we ate and we're coastal areas and we ate, you know, fish, small fish like herring. And so they're higher in vitamin D. Or if you're foraging mushrooms, you're high in vitamin D. So there's ways in which our historical population got it, the paleolithic ancestors, but we don't get that right.

B (18:05)

Exactly, we don't. And so, you know, I do think so people, the simple solution is a vitamin D supplement, right. And so about 4000ius a day will generally get someone from a deficient range, which is 20 nanograms per mil up to a sufficient range.

A (18:20)

Okay, but you, you're talking about 10 times what's normally in a multivitamin or what Doctors will recommend.

B (18:25)

10 times. I am. Because you, yeah, you really do. It's about a thousand I, it's a 1000ius of vitamin D will, will raise blood levels between 5 to 10 nanograms per mil. But it all. We have genes, we have different variations of our genes that are able to do this. And this again comes down to these clinical studies showing that, you know, nothing happens.

A (18:44)

We're all different.

B (18:45)

We're all different. And so some people actually have to take a much higher dose. Right. Because they have genes that aren't doing. Converting vitamin D3 into 25 hydroxy vitamin D, which is this circulating form of vitamin D or the steroid hormone 125 hydroxy vitamin D. You know, so let's.

A (19:02)

Go down this rabbit hole because I think, you know, there's a paper you just reminded me of that Bruce Ames wrote, it was published in, I think the American Journal of Clinical Nutrition years ago, about how one third of all of our DNA codes for enzymes. And an enzyme is a catalyst that converts one molecule to another molecule. The catalysts, or the coenzymes or the helpers are micronutrients. And so what he said in that paper was that there's a huge variation in the population's need for different nutrients. So some people might need 400 micrograms of folate, some people might need 4,000 micrograms of folate. And so it's really about personalized nutrition. It's about testing, not guessing. It's about figuring out what your body needs, what your genetics are. And it gets really fascinating that you can actually start to customize your own diet and your own supplement based on what your own particular genetics and your levels are. Do you often feel tired, tense or foggy? Magnesium might be the missing link. Most people are low and standard supplements don't cut it. Magnesium Magnesium Breakthrough gives you all seven essential forms in one powerful formula. Better sleep, less muscle tension, mental clarity, all with no laxative side effects. Try Magnesium Breakthrough by bioptimizers@bioptimizers.com Hyman for 15% off. I think there's this. It was sort of a wake up call for me. Like, holy cow. When you think of our DNA and everything it does, if one third of it is coding for enzymes and all those enzymes require vitamins and minerals, if we don't have enough of those nutrients, it's like an assembly line in a factory. If you don't have one station, the thing can't get made. So you gum up the whole works of your metabolic machinery if you don't have the right levels of nutrients to optimize the function of your body. And that's why we call it functional medicine, because it's about how do we optimize function. Right.

B (20:57)

It's true. You know, these minerals and vitamins. So you're talking about magnesium, zinc, calcium, B vitamins, like these are, these are co factors for these enzymes to make these enzymes run properly. And if you have, if you don't have, you know, sufficient levels of those vitamins and minerals, what happens is those enzymes do not work optimally. Right?

A (21:21)

Yeah.

B (21:21)

So in the case that we talked about, DNA repair enzymes, they're not going to be repairing damage as well. Zinc is also involved in DNA repair as well, you know, so B vitamins are involved in serotonin production, magnesium's involved in vitamin D production. Right. You were talking about, you know, nutrients working together and it's very true. So I think a really great way to think about eating and diet is what do I need to run my metabolism? Right.

A (21:49)

And when you say metabolism, like, what do you mean by that? Because, like, it's not like my weight. You're talking about metabolism as sort of a bigger concept in medicine.

B (21:58)

Yeah, yeah. I guess when people hear the word metabolism, they think about weight loss.

A (22:02)

I got a slow metabolism.

B (22:04)

Right, right. What I'm talking about is much more a biochemist definition of metabolism, which is all these enzymes. You're talking about, you know, one third of the protein encoding genome that are doing enzymatic reactions that have, that are making proteins function. So they are producing energy, they are, you know, running neurotransmitter synthesis, they are causing, you know, your, your liver to function properly, your heart to function, the lungs, everything.

A (22:34)

So every chemical reaction all the time.

B (22:36)

Exactly.

A (22:37)

I don't know if I heard, I read this somewhere and I, I can't find the original citation, but that there's 37 billion trillion chemical reactions in the body every second. It's just like an insane amount of activity is going on chemically and biochemically and converting one molecule to another. And if you don't have enough of these nutrients, that whole 37 billion trillion chemical reactions may not work optimally.

B (22:57)

Exactly. So getting the micronutrients you need from food and nature sort of color coded them in a way. Right. I mentioned chlorophyll, that's magnesium. You have vitamin K also. The, the.

A (23:13)

What color is that? What color is vitamin K?

B (23:15)

I, I guess it's green too. I would say green vitamin K1.

A (23:19)

And then the orange ones.

B (23:20)

The orange, right. And then you've got like the phytochemicals. Right. So that would be the purples. But you know, you really do need to get a lot of vegetables and, and fruits and then you need your protein. Right. And fiber. When you're, when you're getting your micronutrients, you're also getting the fiber because a lot of the micronutrients are coming from plants.

A (23:40)

Yeah.

B (23:40)

Which are a great source of both fermentable and non fermentable fiber. Right. So I think it's a really simple way. There's so many fad diets out there. Right. Carnivore, keto, vegetarian, paleo. And although I do think paleo is the closest thing to what I'm talking about. But what I'm talking about is even simpler because what it really means is that you understand why you need food. What's the purpose of food? Right. The purpose of food is to provide you with these essential vitamins and minerals and fatty acids like omega 3 and protein and fiber to improve gut health. That's the purpose of eating and fuel. Right. And so that's, that means you don't need ultra processed foods. That, that means, you know, if you're eating something like just carnivore diet, you're going to be missing out on a lot of micronutrients.

A (24:29)

Now I want to talk about the importance of supplementation and why we need to use nutritional supplements to address nutrient deficiencies that are widespread. And as I mentioned before, 95% of Americans are deficient in at least one essential nutrient at the minimum level to prevent a deficiency disease. This is staggering. Not how much do you need for optimal health, but how much do you need just to prevent a deficiency disease like scurvy or rickets. And 2 billion people, as I mentioned, worldwide have at least one nutrient deficiency. It plays a huge role in infant mortality and, and chronic illnesses around the world. Now let's talk about the difference between macro and micronutrients. Now, macronutrients, you're familiar with carbs, proteins, fats. Now it's very unusual in our modern society to have a deficiency in any of these nutrients. Protein is a common deficiency in the developing world and you see kids with severe protein malnutrition. But it's really important to get enough protein. But although we might not have a deficiency, we still May not be optimal. And I've done podcasts on that, but we'll. That's another topic. Now, micronutrient deficiencies like vitamins and minerals are far more common. And I want to explain just for a minute why nutrients are so important. Just to understand the context here, when you look at your DNA, 1/3 of your entire DNA codes for enzymes. Now what are enzymes? Enzymes are catalysts. They're basically a enzyme or a catalyst that converts one compound or one molecule to another molecule in your body. They're basically the facilitators of all your biochemical reactions. And you've got 37 billion trillion chemical reactions happening every second in your body. Now just digest that for a second. Right? 37 billion trillion chemical reactions every second. And every single one of those reactions requires an enzyme. And those enzymes require a cofactor or coenzyme. And guess what folks, what are the cofactors and coenzymes? They're vitamins and minerals. Now drugs, they affect a single pathway to create a single outcome. For example, if you have a blood pressure pill, it's a calcium channel blocker, it does that one thing, however, vitamins and minerals, they might have the effect on hundreds and hundreds of different enzymes. So magnesium or folate or other, other nutrients may have the ability to affect the function of literally hundreds and hundreds of different chemical reactions. That's why they create such widespread spread problems. So just to understand that this is a super important thing and based on these genetic differences, we have, you know, I said one third of our DNA codes for enzymes. Based on these genetic variations, different people may need different amounts of nutrients and may need different forms of nutrients. For example, if you have a gene that is called mthfr, it means you can't convert the folate from your food very well into the folate that's active in your body. 5 methylfolate. So you need to take the preformed version as a supplement, for example. Or let's say you are somebody who has vitamin D receptor issues and can't absorb vitamin D. Well, you might need not a thousand units of vitamin D a day, you might need 10,000. And so there are a lot of variations in the population. That's why it's important to test, not guess. And again, that's why I created with my colleagues and friends and co founders functionhealth.com to allow you to get all these nutrients we're talking about today tested and many more. Go to functionhealth.com mark and you can find out what's actually going on. Okay, so let's get started. What are the most common micronutrient deficiencies? Well, iron. Iron is the most common nutrient deficient globally, affecting about 25% of the global population. Now the consequences include short term problems like anemia, particularly in preschoolers when nearly 50% are deficient if they're not getting iron fortified foods. Right. So the at risk groups particularly are vegans. Almost all the vegans I know and test are iron deficient vegetarians still menstruating in pregnant women because they use up a lot of blood in either menstruating or, you know, getting extra blood for the baby. Vitamin D deficiency, also extremely common and it may have, depending on how you look and define it, insufficiency or deficiency may affect between 80 to 95% of the population. And we're going to put all the references in here. I'm not making this stuff up. You just have to look at the show notes to get the scientific papers that are reflecting what I'm talking about here. Now, while Frank, deficiency symptoms like rickets are not common today, although they are sometimes in the developing world, suboptimal levels have significant health impacts, as I mentioned. Suppressed immune system, muscle weakness, fibromyalgia, fatigue, depression, immune dysfunction, and even cardiovascular risk, cancer risk. I mean, all these things are related to low levels or insufficient levels of vitamin D. The next big one is magnesium deficiency. Now this affects about 20% of the population based on the minimum amount to prevent a deficiency disease. That's 20% who have overt magnesium deficiency. That's quite serious. Subclinical deficiency could affect up to 80% of the population, which is very important because why? Magnesium is crucial for over 600 enzyme reactions affecting every single biological system affecting overall health and risk of chronic disease. Literally everything from your mental health to your immune health, to metabolic health, diabetes, control, muscle function, everything, pretty much everything. Vitamin B12 deficiency is also really common. About 80 to 90% of vegans and vegetarians may be deficient in vitamin B12 because there's not any vegetable food. Basically that's how it is, just fact of Life. Now over 20% of adults may be deficient in, not the vegans because only about 2% of the population is vegan. But basically even the rest of the population, it can be deficient in vitamin B12. Part of it has to do with, you know, our, our drugs we're taking, like acid blockers. Part of it has to do with our digestive function and lack of absorption in some cases, or just lack of intake.

B (30:33)

Right?

A (30:33)

Because people aren't eating B12 rich foods. Now, what about calcium deficiency? Not, not that common because the body regulates calcium pretty well from the bones. But what happens is basically if you don't have enough calcium because your blood levels have to be controlled really tightly, it just sucks it all out of your bones and you get osteoporosis. So. But a survey in the United States found that about 15% of teenage girls and about 10% of women over 50 and about less than 22% of teenage boys and men over 50 meet the recommended calcium intake. So a lot of people don't meet it. And it depends on your age and your sex and so forth. But we need to make sure we have adequate calcium. But ideally you want to get it from food. Calcium rich foods are really common greens, often seeds, sesame seeds are great, chia seeds are great. So there's a lot of ways to get calcium. You can get it from bones, from a can of sardines, which I like. But anyway, you probably don't like that, but I like to eat that can of salmon with the bones in. Again, that's how people lived on islands used to get calcium. Anyway, you can take a little calcium, but I don't think you want to overdo on calcium because of problems with calcium affecting heart and creating other issues. So I'd be careful about that. Anyway, omega 3 fats, the next one. This is a big one. We don't eat the foods we used to eat as hunter gatherers, which are wild foods or a lot of sea based foods for coastal people. Those are very rich in omega 3s. But our modern industrial diet and our lack of intake of wild fish has really dropped. And so 90% of Americans are not meeting the recommendations for omega 3 intake, which is one serving of fatty fish at least two times a week. And I think that's a bare minimum, right? And I'm talking about like sardines, herring, mackerel, maybe some wild salmon, anchovies, you know, small fatty fish. Now there's a lot of other deficiencies. And this is from a large national study. It's called nhanes, or National Health and Nutrition Examination Survey. It's a big mumbo jump, but it's a government ongoing government study that's been going on for a long, long time that tracks people over decades, tracks their blood work, their health issues. And basically they found that 45% of the population is deficient in vitamin A, 46% in vitamin C, 84% in vitamin E. Why? Because it comes from whole grains and nobody eats those. 15% are deficient in zinc. And why this matters is that these subclinical deficiencies, or just frank deficiencies, can lead to really serious health consequences. And they may not have initially obvious symptoms, but they will ultimately. So what's the truth about supplements? Well, getting enough vitamins and minerals is not just about preventing deficiency diseases. Well, that's part of it. They're also essential nutrients to power every aspect of our biology. As I said, right, Vitamins and minerals and amino acids play key roles in a whole set of biochemical reactions in the body. As I mentioned, they act as cofactors. I'm just saying this again because it's so important to understand. They literally are the grease that lubricates the wheels of our massive metabolic and biochemical machinery. They power metabolism, our detox systems, our energy production, our antioxidant systems, which all are important for overall health. I mean, your antioxidants need nutrients to work. For example, you need zinc and copper to activate and manganese, one of the most important intracellular antioxidants called superoxide dismutase. So nutrients are key for everything, right? For example, you can't make ATP for energy for your cells without magnesium. If you want to turn tryptophan from your turkey into serotonin, which is good for your mood, you need B6 for that chemical reaction. And you need magnesium and you need folate, right? So if you're low in those, and they're really common to be low in, of course you're going to be depressed. You want to make thyroid hormones, right? To make thyroid hormone, T4, you need iodine, and then to make T3, you need selenium and zinc and vitamin A and vitamin D to make the thyroid hormone work at the cellular level. So without optimal levels of these essential nutrients, our biochemistry just can't function properly. And that leads to these low level functional imbalances. And they manifest as just feeling crappy right now, like we call it feel like crap syndrome or FLC or worse. They can lead to these long latency deficiency diseases, accelerated aging, heart disease, cancer, osteoporosis, depression and, and, and worse. And also they lead to immune dysfunction. That's why the elderly often having higher risk of illness, infection, because they tend to, you know, have poor diets, they tend to have trouble absorbing nutrients in their stomach as they get older, and so they tend to have more deficiencies. Now, a new study published in the European Journal of Nutrition studied blood levels of magnesium, really important, my favorite mineral and homocysteine which is a measure of B12, folate and B6 function in the body. And they looked at these levels in about 172 healthy middle aged people from Australia, and they found that low levels of magnesium and high homocysteine were linked to an increase in DNA damage. Now, what is the minimum RDA for magnesium? It's about 400 milligrams, which is fine. That's pretty good amount. But here's the deal. In order to get that much magnesium, you'd have to eat 115 almonds, seven avocados and 12 and a half bananas to meet that amount magnesium. And that's why supplementing is so important in today's modern world. The question is, you know, do Americans need supplements? Do people in general need nutritional supplements? Because if you listen to most doctors, you don't.

C (35:55)

I mean, I, I think that is the, the thing that is so hard as a consumer in this space is just the wildly different opinions and like it's, it's the Dr. Gap of people who say expensive urine to the ones who are like, this is exactly what to do for this. And it's also like the explosion on social media. You know, there's this whole kind of N equals one world right now where people are raving about, you know, this supplement is just changing my life. It makes me see in 4K. But you know, then they, they also have their supplement store right behind it. So it's a, it's an extremely difficult space to navigate.

A (36:26)

I mean, there's a lot of snake oil sales, by the way.

C (36:27)

A lot of snake oil sales.

A (36:28)

Yeah.

C (36:28)

Or, or, and look, there might be people who are having actual real great experiences, but they're not aggregating that data in a way that, you know, allows anyone to make sense of it. It's just their individual story. And I think we're going through such a big battle right now in America around the individual and the institution. Right. And who to trust in this. And that trust is really eroded. Institutional trust is continuing to go down and 51% of Americans say that they have bought a health or wellness product from a social media influencer from something they sell on social media.

A (36:58)

Well, I button shorts and shoes on supplements.

C (37:01)

Fair, Fair.

A (37:02)

All right, see, we'll kind of dive a little bit deeper for us into what is SUPCO and how it works and why it's so important.

C (37:08)

You know, we like to say that we're helping users make sense of supplements through our website and app. We're helping you figure out what supplements are Right for your health, what products and brands you can trust, how you can save the most money and get results. To do this, we've cataloged over 200,000 supplement products that you can search in our app or by their scanning the barcode. And we've built an in depth trust score rating from 29 different attributes that let you understand the manufacturing standards and quality of your supplements. For those looking to figure out what they want to take, we have 80 expert protocols that you can go in to find guidance on different health topics like brain fog or heart health and women's hormones. To get starting, it's pretty easy. You enter a little bit of information, start scanning your supplements to kind of catalog what you're already taking. We give you analysis of your stacks so that you can kind of get a score that's easy to understand how you can improve quality, how you can improve trust and make changes to kind of improve that. You also then can share your stack with your doctor, your friends, kind of get feedback from different people, create a conversation around it that helps you understand if you're taking too much or too little of something, which happens to a lot of people. And then we have a smart scheduler that lets you make sure you're taking your products correctly. Are you taking them with food? Are you taking them at the right time? Which will then also start tracking to see whether or not you're getting results. We launched at beta in early October. The response has been amazing. We're getting nearly 1,000 users a day right now.

A (38:34)

October 24th.

C (38:35)

October 24th, yeah. And we're getting 1,000 users a day without even having your protocols. So we're excited to get your protocols in stack on the platform soon. And I think for us people to know right now everything on Sept goes free and we'll launch a premium membership later this year which will have some premium features and eventually help people save money on their supplements as well. We don't sell any of your data. There's no advertisement on Suffco either. And yeah, we want people to come in and be aligned with them so that we're just as excited when they stop taking something that doesn't work as when they start taking something.

A (39:08)

So you're not selling supplements?

C (39:10)

We're not selling supplements. And if we do, we will never profit from them.

A (39:13)

We want guiding people on how to.

C (39:15)

Guiding people on how to take the.

A (39:16)

Best products for them that are the cleanest, that are actually matching their goals and needs. And you're just providing this incredible service which I think is such an important gap in the marketplace that you're filling. So what is the problem of nutritional deficiencies today in America? What do we know about the level of insufficiency or deficiency of nutrients? Is it widespread, is it rare?

C (39:41)

I mean, look, I think this is your world. I think this is the one that you particularly would talk best about. I know my own individual struggles, but honestly, like you've got this data, this.

A (39:50)

Is, this is your world. I mean the day the data is so impressive, you know, when you look at the, and I'll just sort of share a little bit to kind of set the stage. But you know, NHANES is called the National Health and Nutrition Examination Survey and it's conducted by the government. And every year they drive around, they get blood on a whole bunch of people, they chest their levels and they see what's going on of all sorts of things and nutrient levels. And what they found is, you know, 90 plus percent of Americans are efficient in one or more nutrient at the minimum level to prevent deficiency. And this is really an important concept for nutrients because if you, if you look at for example, vitamin D, you need maybe 30 units, so you don't get rickets, right? But you might need 3,000 units so you don't get osteoporosis or cancer or dementia or heart disease or autoimmune diseases or a whole bunch of things that we call long latency deficiency diseases. There's a guy named Robert Heaney who was a professors and brilliant scientist who wrote a paper called Long latency deficiency diseases. What essentially he was talking about was like, yeah, there's nobody walking around really in America with rickets anymore or scurvy or beriberi or pellagra or Xeroxalma. These are these severe deficiency diseases that we actually found in the turn of the century when we started refining our diet and taking, you know, white flour and white rice. That's actually how they found it was in, in prisoners, they gave them white rice, they all became deficient, had these horrible diseases that were cured in a second essentially with minuscule amounts of nutrients. When you look at the amount of deficiencies, whether it's, you know, 90 plus percent deficient, omega 3, 80 plus insufficient, efficient vitamin D and some people say even more. Magnesium is about 45%, zinc is about 40%, iron. You know, we have a lot of, of deficiencies. And with function, we now have 150,000 members at function Health. And now by the way, there's no waiting list, so you can just join, go to functionhealth.com, you can get in and go ahead and check your levels, but we found that in looking at all the data, almost 70% of our members have a deficiency in a nutrient that is at the minimum reference range of the lab. So in other words, for iron, this is an example, your ferritin level, which is your iron Source, should be 45 or more. To feel good, to not have fatigue, to not have hair loss, to not have insomnia. There's a whole bunch of things that come with low iron. The Reference range goes 16 or lower, but it should be 45. Sure, right. Or homocysteine is just like the levels 14, which should be more 6 to 8, which detects B vitamin deficiencies or vitamin D should be probably 45 to 60, not 30 or 20, which some lab reference changes are. And at the minimum level, which is how much you need to not get rickets or scurvy or any of these diseases, this is what the RDA is. It's not the amount you shouldn't be taking, it's the minimum amount you need to be taking so you don't get some of these horrible diseases. We're seeing almost 70% of people are deficient in these nutrients in a cohort of 150,000 people, which is a massive amount of data that we've collected at Function Health and we're learning about, you know, the, the kinds of things we're seeing in the population. So it's a real issue where people are not getting the nutrients they need and they don't know why they feel bad, they don't know why they have these low grade symptoms, whether, you know, I had one patient, she had, she came in, she was a radiation oncology resident at Mayo and she had the most severe migraines. She was on narcotics, she was on, you know, major anti vomiting medication and she could barely function. And she came in and she said, oh, I have terrible migraines. And I started taking her history. I said, oh, do you have other symptoms like constipation or do you have muscle spasms or do you have anxiety or irritability or palpitations or constipation? And she's like, yeah, I got all those things. I'm like, well, that's a magnesium deficiency. And it was so easy. And I gave her, she needed like a thousand or more milligrams of magnesium to get her going and clear everything out. And that cured her migraines. Wow. And you hear someone who was at Mayo Clinic saw the best migraine doctors did everything she could. They couldn't even diagnose a deficiency. And by the way, magnesium deficiency, you can. We test magnesium function and we get your red cell magnesium, which is a better indicator. Sure. But to do a real magnesium loading test where you give people IV magnesium and you see what they keep and what they dump out is the best way to actually really tell. But, but it. But even so, just by history, I could tell, and I. And after doing functional medicine for 30 years, I can tell you without a doubt. And doing nutrition testing on tens of thousands of people and deep analysis of minerals and vitamins and antioxidant levels and oxidative stress and CoQ10, all the things that people normally don't look at. It's so widespread, like nutrient deficiency is so widespread in America. So that kind of then leads into the question of, well, if that's true, then why is that true?

C (44:39)

By the way, what's shocking about that is 75% of Americans take a dietary supplement, 55% are regular users, yet 70% are still getting those lab results from it. So, like, they're definitely taking the wrong things or not enough of the right things, you know, like. So I think that just speaks to a lot of the, you know, stuff we're trying to sort out. Sepco is giving people the ability to actually know what they're putting in their body. One of the big features of. Of being able to kind of enter everything that you're currently taking is you'll actually see your nutrient totals across all the different products. Vitamin D is coming from six of the products I take, you know, and like, actually having a conversation with a doctor about what's actually going in your body doesn't really happen. I remember talking to a nutritionist in the beginning. They're like, she was like, very good. She said, yeah, I've spent four hours, you know, actually going over the nutrients that people were getting from the products. They told me, but most people don't ever do that. I don't know who has a conversation with their doctor who knows actually what they're putting in their body.

A (45:30)

I think this is really important. So Sepco is your company that you started to help solve this problem of what to take. Quality, quality of, you know, how can.

C (45:38)

You trust how you're taking your outcomes?

A (45:40)

You know, what's the total amount of nutrients you're taking? So people might be taking 10 different supplements and they, like I said, they all might have selenium in them.

C (45:46)

Correct.

A (45:46)

And then you're getting toxic dose of selenium.

C (45:48)

100%.

A (45:49)

And you don't know that because you're not adding it all up, you're not putting a spreadsheet, you're not doing the math and you create a product that does this. Now, I believe in this so much because it's what I tried to solve when I started my own sort of store for my patients, which was essentially trying to curate a small group of products that I personally had investigated, that I visited, the factories that I did the analysis that I looked at the third party testing, my God, I mean, I curated basically 3, 400 products for functional medicine applications, for basically helping people with cardiometabolic issues, for hormonal issues, for gut issues, and so on, so forth. So that was a lot of work. And I've been confident that I can recommend these things to my patients or people who follow me. But I don't think it really solves a bigger problem of how do you figure out everything all together? And I know personally that I don't have enough time to do this for myself. Even I'm buying different things or using things, right? Like, how do I, how do I know? So that's really why I become an advisor to sepco and I'm sort of helping you because I think this is such an important gap in the marketplace and it's such a need. When you look at the landscape today, tell us some of the problems in the supplement industry. Why? Why is this needed? Because people are just buying stuff and they don't know where it's coming from, where they get it. They can buy it on Amazon and often this stuff is sitting on a pallet for a long time or it's like that it's some sort of ripoff product that doesn't have the nutrients in it. So tell us, sort of unpack the real issues with the supplement industry as it is today.

C (47:16)

As I said, we've got about 200,000 products. There's like 195 already done and then a big queue of ones that have been submitted to us that we're going through and that's up from 4,000 products in 1994. That's all there was. Right. So it's been a 4,000 to 2,000. In 1994, there's 4,000 supplement products on the market and now there's over 200. And so, you know, we've kind of gone in and taken each one of the supplements, taken the supplement facts, labels and kind of taken the data so that you can get an aggregate view of, you know, what you're actually putting your body. So that helps you understand what you're taking. But addition to that, we've gone out and scored the top. There's 8,000 brands, which is insane too if you think about it. We've taken the top 500 which covers, you know, a big percentage of it and kind of expanding down the long tail now. And we've given them a trust score. And so we basically have gone in and done what you were doing kind of manually and doing all these individual reviews, built a 29 point system that goes in and checks what certifications, what kind of testing they're doing and kind of breaks it down and gives them a score. That alone, that feature alone, you can scan any supplement for its barcode.

A (48:19)

Basically you just take the bottle, you put your phone on it and do.

C (48:22)

It here while we're talking too.

A (48:23)

Yeah, it's a pretty cool thing. And you don't have to manually enter it.

C (48:27)

You just your code and it pops up right away. And you know, you get the trust score and all the information about the product. It's super fast, it's super easy and the hit rate is really high. And if we don't have something, you immediately can submit it, you can AI scan the label and it'll put it in the system. And the queue is insane. Like the long tail here. There are 20,000 products in the system that only one person is taking. There's a long tail here that is, you know, absolutely insane. And that's, that's unique products. Unique.

A (48:55)

Yeah. That are kind of not commonly taken.

C (48:58)

Yeah. Like one person's taking. I don't know how they found it. I don't know if that's a trusted brand. And you've seen an explosion on Amazon of these kind of brands that are just quickly coming to market because there's no real thing stopping you from bringing a supplement to market. You know, there's a big difference in the FDA around the federal code between pharmaceuticals and supplements. Supplements are governed under federal code 21 c f r 11 1. Right.

A (49:23)

What is that?

C (49:24)

And that's basically that like, you know, for, for pharmaceuticals there's a whole process that they have to get pre approved following CGMP standards and all these different things.

A (49:34)

That's good manufacturing standards.

C (49:35)

Yeah, Current good manufacturing process. You know, with supplements it's not something that gets done up front. You can be held to this standard retroactively like in the. If something comes up. But it's kind of up to you to just say you can get retroactively. Someone can Say they're having a negative experience, report it with the fda. They can come after you for not following the practice. But no one's checking up front.

A (49:56)

I mean, the amount of attention that the FDA pays this is very, very little unless there's some serious adverse effect or somebody has this problem with it. Right.

C (50:04)

And those latent things you're talking about, the like ones that might be heavy metal exposure that take a long time to ever show up or you don't know the source of it, there's, there's no guideline there.

A (50:12)

I mean, a friend of mine was a researcher and he actually analyzed ayurvedic supplements and found extremely high levels of heavy metals.

C (50:20)

Totally.

A (50:21)

So you're like, you're taking some Ayurvedic herb, which is some natural product and it hasn't been tested properly. And when they actually tested it, it was full of heavy metals.

C (50:27)

And if you, even if you follow cgmp, you're supposed to occasionally test your lots. I think it's like once a year. And then, even then they don't provide the guidance on heavy metals. It's like kind of up to you to be like, well, for this type of product, what should. The Prop 65 helps a little bit in terms of making sure you don't have to put the label on there if you exceed those numbers. But it's, it's pretty, it's a pretty wild west, to be perfectly honest. And there are systems now that can say, come up with an idea and a brand and get a supplement and market in weeks. So that's why you're seeing the explosion.

A (50:56)

Yeah.

C (50:56)

So we've gone in and we've taken 29 different points and we've built a scoring system.

A (51:02)

This is your trust score.

C (51:03)

This is our trust score.

A (51:04)

So basically taking 29 different attributes, you.

C (51:06)

Know, whether it's toxic testing, CGMP, if whether the biggest one that makes a difference is whether or not you're getting a third party to certify your CGMP practices.

A (51:16)

Right.

C (51:16)

That's like kind of like the fundamentals. So instead of you just saying, yeah, I'm good, you know, I'm going to self certify that I'm following these practices. There's NSF and ul, these two big, you know, firms that'll come in and do what you are doing, you know, go tour the facilities, kind of do make sure you're actually following, give you a certification that's like a fundamental big one. And there's a surprising number of brands that don't Follow.

A (51:36)

That means that the fact that the manufacturing plan is clean.

C (51:38)

Oh yeah.

A (51:39)

The way they get source the ingredients.

C (51:41)

They'Re testing each lot, you know, and like there's a lot, you know, to that to figure it out.

A (51:46)

It's true. When I started in this field in functional medicine 30 years ago, there were, there were a handful of professional brands that were only marketed and sold through professionals, doctors, nutritionists and so forth. Chiropractors. And you couldn't get them otherwise.

C (52:02)

Interesting.

A (52:03)

Yeah, you couldn't get like Metagenics or Thorn or pure encapsulations. They only distributed. Only distributed them through professionals because they were higher level, higher grade, a little more expensive. But you pay for, you get what you pay for. So for example, pure encapsulations, they, they actually test every single product, every lot. And, and what we do it before, they make the stuff with the ingredients and they do it after. And if it says, you know, supposed to say 400 milligrams of let's say magnesium on the label, if it's 350, they throw it out.

C (52:32)

Metagenics, who you brought up, is our 10 out of 10. They're our highest scoring brand on the platform.

A (52:37)

Yeah.

C (52:38)

They do like one thing that is rare, but we really, we give some points to it, is they make every batch, test coa publicly available. So you can like look at your bottle, look at the lot number, go online, pull it up and see the results from the test. That's like a gold standard for us. Pure ranks very highly. And there's. But then there's a big spectrum and.

A (53:00)

The stuff that you get in the grocery store or at Walmart or at the drugstore is generally crap. Like, you sent me the other day, texted me a, a screenshot of Centrum.

C (53:10)

Yeah.

A (53:11)

Which is, you know, this massive advertising. It's really a big product out there. Everything's Centrum. It's high quality, it's good. I mean, but why didn't you take a blue pill or a red pill or have titanium dioxide or have dyes and chemicals?

C (53:24)

Yeah, that was a super interesting thing about that Centrum pill in particular is that like the Centrum brand ranking is pretty high. But we do just started exposing the excipients, the inactive ingredients, and it had titanium dioxide, red 40, red 5, like these things that. I'm sorry, yellow 5, these things that are not good. I mean, titanium dioxide is not. It's banned in Europe, you know, like it causes DNA damage and they don't need to be in your, in your supplements. So that's another Thing we just rolled out was not just the manufacturing standards, but now we're going down to the product level and actually going in, we have like a forget how many. It's a couple thousand of these excipients that get added and bringing them out by, you know how cautious you should be about.

A (54:06)

Yeah. And there's a lot of stuff in them that we often are not known. Like there could be gluten or dairy, like lactose or other things that are in these in addition to all the other kind of excipients, fillers, additives, colors, chemicals, things that make it look good or stick together. And I mean you don't want that crap, you want the nutrient.

C (54:25)

And I think it's going to be interesting. We're starting to send out, you know, different supplements for our own independent testing to do what you were saying. Just kind of like verify that. Even if they're highly rated, are they, is it actually in there what they say it is? Right. So the precision of the nutrients that they're, they're claiming are in there. It's a complicated market. And I think that what we've done though by just making a simple score, like making it out of 10 is like, it makes it really easy for people to understand. Right. The simple like red, yellow, green, like you can go deep and you can go look at each of the 29.

A (54:54)

Trust scores, 1 to 10, like this is a 9, this is a 2.

C (54:57)

That has been helpful for people to just like simply take a glance because some, the user base we have. You know, one thing I like doing in general when designing software is it's gotta be easy enough for grandma to use, but powerful enough for, you know, the most hardcore user in the space to go deep on. Right. I did that with Splice, making sure that 40% of top 40 music, using it to create music. They're like the hardcore guys and the brand new music creators. Right. So we're doing this in supplements, right. There's a, there's a way to dive way deep into what those 29 points are in each one of the excipients and all that. Or you can simply look at the score at the top and be like, okay, that feels good. Because some people just, we got to be meet the consumers where they are.

A (55:33)

Because nobody's really doing that. There was a, there was a company called Consumer Labs that I used to kind of use to reference stuff where they would go and test products and I would rely on their independent analysis. But you know, they weren't, they weren't able to do the 200,000 products. So you basically just for the simple scan of the barcode, the technology behind it, the use of, I mean it's, it's quite amazing. Now you can literally see what is the problem or how good a product is and whether or not it actually says what it is on the label.

C (56:03)

Yeah. And like I think the big thing too is like we're not out here to, we just want to kind of arc the industry in the right direction. Right. Like some of our trust scores, if you find a negative one, we're not all doing the big gotcha story on it. We're having conversations. A lot of the brands have reached out to us. First. The top end brands are like, thank you. Right, thank you for simplifying and raising to the attention how much work we are putting into testing this. So super appreciative. Sometimes they'll clarify a piece of data that we might not have. Right. Because we've collected it through our teams reaching out to them and they might provide something which is great. And then we've had brands, brands also reaching out. One, they want their trust score. The consumers are starting to care about this and then how do we make it better? Right. And that's our big dream. If we can just help the industry move in the right direction on this with the scores, I think we've done something really great.

A (56:52)

When it comes to supplements, you only want the best for your body. The kind with the highest quality, cleanest and most potent ingredients you can get. That's exactly what you'll find at my supplement store where I've hand selected each and every product to meet the most rigorous standards for safety, purity and effectiveness. These are the only supplements I recommend to my patients and they're also what I use myself. Whether you want to optimize longevity or reduce your disease risk, or you're looking to improve your sleep, blood sugar, metabolism, gut health, you name it. Doctorhyman.com has the world's best selection of top quality premium supplements, all backed by science and expertly vetted by me, Dr. Mark Hyman. So check out Dr.hyman.com because when it comes to your health, nothing less than the very best will do. That's Dr. Hyman.com D R H Y M A N if you love this podcast, please share it with someone else you think would also enjoy it. You can find me on all social media channels @ Dr. Mark Hyman, please reach out. I'd love to hear your comments and questions. Don't forget to rate, review and subscribe to the Dr. Hyman show wherever you get your podcasts. And don't forget to check out my YouTube channel at Dr. Mark Hyman for video versions of this podcast and more. Thank you so much again for tuning in. We'll see you next time on the Dr. Hyman Show. This podcast is separate from my clinical practice at the Ultra Wellness center, my work at Cleveland Clinic and Function Health where I am Chief Medical Officer. This podcast represents my opinions and my guests opinions. Neither myself nor the podcast endorses the views or statements of my guests. This podcast is for educational purposes only and is not a substitute for professional care by a doctor or other qualified medical professional. This podcast is provided with the understanding that it does not constitute medical or other professional advice or services. If you're looking for help in your journey, please seek out a qualified medical practitioner. And if you're looking for a functional medicine practitioner, visit my clinic, the Ultra Wellness center at ultrawellnesscenter.com and request to become a patient. It's important to have someone in your corner who is a trained, licensed healthcare practitioner and can help you make changes, especially when it comes to your health. This podcast is free as part of my mission to bring practical ways of improving health to the public, so I'd like to express gratitude to sponsors that made today's podcast possible. Thanks so much again for listening.