← The Dr. Hyman Show
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- [00:00]
Dr. Mark Hyman
I'd love you to sort of unpack what happened to you and what you actually have done to correct it and be in remission.
- [00:05]
Miranda Kerr
I had some discomfort, I had bloating, I had pain and it felt different to my other pregnancy. I was like something's not right. It just felt off. And then I had some blood in my stool after I gave birth. I then had a colonoscopy and that's when they said I had proctitis. And I really believe wholeheartedly that it was obviously caused from inflammation but also stress.
- [00:31]
Dr. Mark Hyman
Miranda Kerr is an internationally renowned supermodel. She's a wellness entrepreneur. She's the founder of the award winning organic skincare line Kora Organic and she's a passion advocate for holistic health and mindful living. She blends science backed rituals with timeless self care to help women glow from the inside out.
- [00:47]
Miranda Kerr
For so long I didn't even know that I was in this state of fight or flight. I was running on adrenaline. I basically feel like acknowledging that was the first step in healing.
- [01:04]
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- [02:32]
Dr. Mark Hyman
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- [02:35]
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- [02:38]
Dr. Mark Hyman
90 day starter kit today. So, Miranda, it's so good to have you on the podcast and to talk about the work you're doing in the world, your own health journey, and how that can help inspire and elevate how people think about their own health, and particularly women about skincare. I think most people don't understand how difficult it is to, to live in a healthful way that isn't going to be causing themselves harm. And you know, so many women over 35 are juggling career, kids, relationships or health. You have kind of a philosophy around being the CEO of your own health and your family's health. Um, and I think you kind of start on this journey with your own health struggles. You know, you had irritable bowel syndrome, even more proctitis, which is a sort of a more advanced version in a sense on the spectrum of inflammatory bowel disease. And that happened when you were pregnant. And Olivia sort of should maybe start by sharing your own story and how you began to sort of be aware of your own health. And I mean, you're young, you're obviously look healthy, but things happen under the surface that we're not aware of and can lead to a lot of suffering. So I'd love sort of to share how, how did you come to sort of understand all this about your health and what did you do to kind of help resolve it?
- [03:43]
Miranda Kerr
It's, it's kind of a. There's been so many layers to my health journey. I guess it all started my interest in health and wellness started when I was a teenager and my mom was diagnosed with tumors on her spleen. And so as a family, you know, we had to really look at everything that we were consuming, both internally, externally. We went through our whole pantry. We then started eating organic, I mean, back when. So I grew up in a little country town in Australia called Gannada. And my grandparents, you know, would grow organic vegetables, you know, and I was very much into health and wellness as a young child in the countryside. And she actually introduced me to noni juice. And noni, as you know, is, you know, a superfood, super fruit. And I've been drinking that since I was 13. So I'm very much incredible, you know, and then.
- [04:42]
Dr. Mark Hyman
It doesn't taste very good, does it? No, I tried it it's terrible.
- [04:48]
Miranda Kerr
Yeah. My husband actually, wedding anniversary, our wedding honeymoon, he actually had fresh noni juice from Fiji and he was like, wow, this is intense. But he actually asked for it every day, so that was fun. And I drink it every day. I. It's still something that I've been drinking every day since I was 13 and I, I really feel like it's been helpful to me, you know, in so many different ways. And actually it's the key ingredient across Cora Organics. But I don't want to get sidetracked there. So my mom being sick really led us into this deep dive of health and wellness and really it just opened up the door for so many other learnings. Obviously what you're putting on your skin soaks in. And so we searched for certified organic products and we really, back then, I think I was like 16 at the time, we weren't able to find the products that were truly certified organic and results driven. And that's kind of what sparked my interest to start my own company down the track. In 2006, I started Quora Organics.
- [06:02]
Dr. Mark Hyman
That's a long time ago.
- [06:03]
Miranda Kerr
Yeah, it was. Yeah. And it's. That was 2006 was the concept. 2009 I launched in Australia and then it was, it was basically like my first baby. I do have four boys and Core Organics, I always say, is my baby girl. So, yeah, so going back to the health journey, I got very interested in health and wellness at that stage when my mom was sick and we really helped her so much through making a lot of these changes, through what we were eating, obviously the thoughts we were thinking, and also what we were putting on our skin. And you know, the whole philosophy behind my brand is mind body skin, basically because of a lot of those learnings. And then, you know, fast forward to many years later and I actually studied nutrition. I'm a certified health coach and I really am just feeling like I'm continually learning so much every day and I want to be learning every day until the day I die. And I just think that a lot of the knowledge is continually getting updated and I just feel like there's so much to learn and, and through my own health challenges that I've had, I've really learned even more. As you were mentioning, I had proctitis. I'm currently in remission, which is incredible.
- [07:26]
Dr. Mark Hyman
That's amazing because by the way, people, just for those listening, as a doctor, this usually a one way street when you get ulcerative colitis or proctitis or inflammatory bowel disease, it actually doesn't usually recover unless you're on drugs for life. And that's the traditional view, but you've shown that through your own health that you've been able to reverse that. And I actually had that happen to me. After I had an antibiotic for a tooth infection, I developed severe C. Diff, and that turned into ulcerative colitis. And I was super sick. But I learned how to completely reverse it and fix it. And I think it's possible for people, and I think they don't know when they change their lifestyle or change their diet, how profound those effects can be. And I'd love you to sort of unpack what happened to you and what you learned and what you actually have done to correct it and be in remission.
- [08:07]
Miranda Kerr
Yeah, it has been such an interesting journey. And at so many points I just felt like, oh, like it took a long time to get to where I'm at right now with my journey. I was pregnant at the time with our now 7 year old. And, you know, I had some discomfort, I had bloating, I had pain. And it felt different to my other pregnancy. So, you know, obviously have Flynn, who's 14, and I was like, something's not right. It just felt off. And then I obviously had some blood in my stool. And so I was like, okay, I'm gonna just, you know, see what this is all about and get it investigated and whatnot. And anyway, after I gave birth, I then had a colonoscopy, and that's when they said I had proctitis. And it's not something that is in my family. And I really believe wholeheartedly that it was obviously caused from inflammation, but also stress. And I think so long I didn't even know that I was in this state of fight or flight. And I feel like from so many years, you know, I used to work six days a week, two different countries a week, and it really took a toll on my nervous system. And that was my, you know, and I. I worked that way from, like when I was 18 to 30, pretty much constantly on an airplane. And I just, you know, I was raised with a very positive attitude. I do have a very happy go lucky attitude. And. And I wanted to embrace all of these opportunities that was that I was given. And so I was very upbeat and I was positive and I really leaned on these tools, like, obviously meditation that I learned from a young age and yoga and eating healthy. But my body was completely exhausted. So after the modeling, I then went to obviously opening my own business. And going through a divorce and then getting married again and then having babies again. I did have a miscarriage in there. So it was a lot.
- [10:25]
Dr. Mark Hyman
So a lot of stress. A lot of stress.
- [10:27]
Miranda Kerr
Yeah, it was a lot of stress. I was running on adrenaline and I basically feel like acknowledging that was the first step in healing, like really just being like, okay, I actually do need support and you know, I just feel like this is time to really slow down and actually incorporate a lot of those things that, you know, really help. Like, I know it really helps when I'm consistent with my meditation. I know that I feel better when I do my yoga. I know that obviously eating healthy I for a long time was like 80, 20, like 80% healthy, 20 indulgent. And I'm very interested in trying a lot of different healing modalities. So yeah, you know, I've been completely vegan. I was for like two years and then I realized that wasn't for me. I then now I'm gluten free, dairy free. At one point I was lectin free, but not anymore. And I'm also egg free so. Because the reason why I'm egg free is because I had my blood tested and it was showing that these, you know, gluten and dairy and eggs were causing inflammation in my body. So I decided that I was going to eliminate those things and that combined with my meditation practices and hyperbaric oxygen has helped me a lot. And also like probiotics, but in your food. So like coconut kefir. I actually do digest goats kefir as well, quite well.
- [12:13]
Podcast Sponsor/Announcer
Yeah.
- [12:14]
Miranda Kerr
And then sauerkraut and turmeric as well. And I actually have a supplement that I take that does have high levels of turmeric in there as well. Curcumin, which I believe has also been key to my remission. But and obviously we don't cook in seed oils. We're very conscious of that. And I feel like those definitely, all of that combined has really contributed to my remission state that I'm in now. So I'm very happy about that.
- [12:50]
Dr. Mark Hyman
That's amazing. Yeah, I mean that's an incredible story and I think it's very helpful for people because a lot of the times for this condition we use very heavy duty drugs that suppress your immune system like biologics and also steroids and really serious drugs. And through modifying your diet, getting rid of the triggers like gluten, dairy, eggs for you and cutting out the processed foods and eating and having the right supplements and probiotic foods, your body can repair and that's the amazing thing about the body is it can heal and repair. And I think I'm wondering if you still get flares and what your kind of response to that is. And you have like a 48 hour response plan. You wrote about.
- [13:31]
Miranda Kerr
I'm lucky that I haven't at the moment, but every time I use the bathroom, I'm constantly like, just checking. But I need to. You know, I do feel that the body has its own healing capacity, self healing capacity. And if you give it the right tools, it is made to heal and work with you. But you need to give it the right environment. And, and that, as I said, the mind, body, spirit connection is all so intricately connected and it's so important to look at all of it because just looking at one thing is not for me. It wasn't working.
- [14:15]
Dr. Mark Hyman
No, you have to do all of it. It's like you have to kind of keep working on things until you find a way. And I think as someone who's also sort of recovered from this very serious ulcerative colitis, you know, I can tell people out there that this is, this is something that we know how to do with functional medicine, that we can actually help people recover through the power of understanding the body's own healing systems. And that's what you did. You essentially took out the things that were causing problems and you added in things that helped the body repair and heal. It's pretty simple actually. But most people don't understand how to do that and those doctors don't actually know how to instruct you to do that. So I'm really proud of you for doing that and I'm proud of you for taking control of your health. And most people just abdicate to their physician instead of saying, wait, what can I do for me? And that's why kind of I've always said, you know, you need to be CEO of your own health. And that's also what you've said, which resonates a lot with me. So I think it's pretty amazing. And thank you for sharing your story. It was really, it was really powerful and I think it's given a lot of people a lot of hope. You know, one of the things I want to talk about is this whole idea of what we're putting in and on our bodies and how important that is to determining our health and our wellbeing. And people do understand that if you eat junk food or ultra processed food, it's probably bad for you. And then we should be eating more fruits and vegetables. People get that, but there's more nuances to actually, like you're saying, gee, I cut out these three foods, I added in these probiotic foods. And there's more nuance to how to use food as medicine. But, you know, one of the big problems, I think, that people don't realize is the amount of environmental toxins or toxins in everyday products. And I'm on the board of the Environmental Working Group, which helps to instruct people through very scientific approaches to looking at ingredients and using large databases to help sort through what is good for you and what's not in your food, in your household cleaning products, in your skincare products. And they have a website and an app called Skin Deep that allows you to say, gee, you know, is my sunblock or my makeup causing a problem? And a lot of women use makeup every single day for decades, and they don't realize that what goes on the skin goes in their body. And there's sort of two aspects to this really, as how I think about beauty and skin care and skin health. One, it comes from the inside out. So, you know, you can slather all kinds of stuff on your face and your body, but if your insides are not healthy, if you don't have the right nutrients, if you're deficient in nutrients like omega threes or, or if you have gut issues or inflammation, it can lead to serious problems like acne or eczema or psoriasis or other rashes, and people try to cover rosacea, but those are all coming from the inside. And in the same way, there's a lot of stuff that we put on our skin that we don't realize goes in. And my rule is basically, if you wouldn't eat it, you shouldn't put it on your face. And I think as a doctor, we're trained how to use topical preparations as medicine. So when someone comes into the emergency room with a heart attack, we take out a tube of nitroglycerin paste, looks like toothpaste, and we squirt two inches on their chest and we cover it over with a bandage and it goes right into their body. And it's the fastest way to help somebody because the skin is a vehicle for transmitting compounds from the outside to the inside. It's a semi permeable membrane. And so women don't understand that skin care products are full of crap. I'm just gonna say it. They're full of crap. Like lipstick can have lead in it. They have parabens, they have plastics, they have all kinds of petrochemical products in them. And it's not just going on your skin, it's going through into your body. Foreigner is more than just an annual.
- [17:51]
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- [17:55]
Dr. Mark Hyman
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- [18:19]
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- [18:20]
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- [18:56]
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- [19:42]
Dr. Mark Hyman
Today foreign so would you kind of unpack how you came to understand that this is a problem? And two, what you found in your research about the kinds of things that women were exposing themselves to that are potentially calling harm causing harm. And then maybe we can talk about how you were able to think about creating a new line of products, Core Organics, that actually help solve for this.
- [20:06]
Miranda Kerr
It's a. It's definitely a big problem. And I think education is key because until you know, you're just completely unaware and you're assuming that what is on the shelf is safe. And I think that's one of the biggest issues today. And I think, as I was mentioning before, with my mom being diagnosed with tumors in her spleen when I was 16, I really. Well, we as a family started questioning everything. And I just feel like there's so much in everyday products that people are putting on their skin. And I think that reading the back of the package and the ingredients is so important. And that's why, you know, I created Kora Organics because I wanted certified organic skincare that was results driven. And people really don't have to compromise their health to get great results.
- [21:06]
Dr. Mark Hyman
Well, how did you come up with the understanding that what we were putting on our skin and women's particular products, even men's products, why they're so full of crap and what that's doing to us and what the science is behind it and that you learned in your sort of investigations that led to you to create core organics, which helps create products that don't have that stuff in them.
- [21:28]
Miranda Kerr
Yeah. So basically, when my mom was sick, we had this little book called the Chemical Maze. And the Chemical Maze was a simple way to show you all of the ingredients that were in, you know, packaged goods, whether that be food or, you know, skin care and whatnot. And it just had like. Like a very simple way, like a layman's guide to say, for instance, like, sodium Lauryl sulfate. And, you know, it's a foaming agent and it had, like, a sad face, and that it can be carcinogenic in high doses. And I'm like, hold on a second. We're using that. It's in every single product here, you know, with the cleaning the skin or. Or washing your hair or, you know, and I just. We were just kind of. That's where it all started, and that's where the information was learned. And that's where my passion was ignited even further about health and wellness. Because we were really just blown away by a lot of these ingredients that we would read in this. In this book and, you know, reference it. Like when you look on the back of the package and you'd reference it and you're like, oh, okay, that's carcinogenic, or that is an allergen, or that, you know, whatever might be is not necessarily what I want to have on my skin every day, because I look at it like a bottle and say, the more and more you are filling yourself with these unnecessary ingredients, it's just filling up and up and up and up and up. And then when the bottle just starts overflowing, that's when you see, you know, if you haven't detoxed, if you're. If you're not aware of ways to detox, you know, like, the sauna, obviously, is a great way. Sweating is a great way to detox. But even if you are doing that, like, why put these unnecessary chemicals on our skin if you could have a healthier alternative to give you just as much, just as incredible results? So that's what really started my passion to create Core Organics. And it's just been a labor of love. It's my company, it's what I invested, you know, all my money into. I am the CEO and the founder, of course. It's not like there's a lot of people out there, celebrities that might do a licensing deal with someone. And for me, this is. This is my baby. This is really, yeah, everything that I put my heart and soul into. And, you know, and from day one, we've been certified organic by ecosert Cosmos, which is a world certification body. And, you know, I originally started creating these products for my family, and then when I realized my mom actually had rosacea on her nose, and so I gave her the Nani Glow Face Oil, within a week, she called me and she goes, I'm off my steroid cream and I'm just using the Noni Glow Face Oil. And she has not had it come back. So that's amazing. Amazing to see the results. So I was like, okay, we really need to share this with the rest of the world. And that's what we're doing.
- [24:44]
Dr. Mark Hyman
Yeah, it's so great. I want to talk about, like, what is actually in the products, because most skincare products have fragrances, alcohol, sulfates, they have petroleum products, which can be all irritants. They have things that are endocrine disruptors like parabens and phthalates and triclosan that are in just everyday skincare products or shampoos or body care products, not even makeup. And there's also formaldehyde, heavy metals I mentioned, and there's pin pigments that can cause all kinds of neurologic things, synthetic dyes, colors, and so I think people don't understand there's all this crap put in there and it's not regulated like when you, you can't put lead in, you know, food, but it's, you can put it on your, on your skin and it's not really properly regulated. They're intentionally putting these things in like these products are made in a factory and they're intentionally putting parabens and all these dyes and, and phthalates and parabens in them. I can actually, I've been testing patients with, with urinary tests for some of these toxins and it's, it's quite amazing how many people are just like full of this crap. And, and they don. And you said, you know, don't know how to even learn the first thing about how to, or even how to detoxify their own bodies. So I mean, the first step is to not put that on your body. And the second thing is to learn how to optimize your own detoxification system. So it sounds like you've experimented with that as a way to help and improve your own health, right?
- [26:05]
Miranda Kerr
Yeah, no, I definitely have and I, I feel so blessed that I work with some of the best chemists in these industry in the world. That really helped me. I'll be like, you know, I really want to create a product. Like from day one I was like, I wanted to include noni in every single product that Core Organics was. And so I really believe in like beauty, like what you would like you said like the, the ingredients that you take internally and externally, so internal and external beauty in that regard of like, like turmeric for instance, like I cook with turmeric. I, I have turmeric supplements. I make little turmeric shots with orange juice and turmeric and that's an anti inflammatory ingredient. And it's great for you internally, but it's also incredible for your skin. And vitamin C that we have at Core Organics is made from Kakadu plum and Kakadu plum is the highest naturally occurring vitamin C in the world. And it originates from Australia. And my mom would give me Kakadu plum powder as a vitamin C and so I was like, I have to put it in for our vitamin C serum. And that's amazing.
- [27:16]
Dr. Mark Hyman
Most people in North America probably never heard of that. I never heard of it.
- [27:18]
Miranda Kerr
Yeah, it's an ingredient native to Australia and yeah, it's full of vitamin C and so I just love using ingredients like that. And then some other ingredients we use like algae obviously. How that's good for you both internally and externally for your skin. And as you were saying, like, a lot of those ingredients we eat, but it's also great for you. Like acai. We have acai and another one of our products.
- [27:47]
Dr. Mark Hyman
So it's stuff that you would eat, basically, that you put in your skin. It's kind of cool. It's like you're thinking about what works on the inside, also works on the outside is what you're saying.
- [27:54]
Miranda Kerr
Exactly. These are like superfoods that have such an incredible benefit for you on the inside. So then, of course, you want to put the most nutrients and antioxidants on your skin and that I really, truly believe that healthy skin is the most beautiful skin. And you see that, and I see that firsthand with my skin. I'm now 42, and as I said, a mother of four boys. And sleep is very important. But I don't get as much as I'd like. And I just feel like being consistent with my skincare has really helped my skin be at its best. And I feel like it looks better now than what it did even prior to having core organics. When I was, you know, that was back in 2006, I said that's when we started with the formulations and everything.
- [28:42]
Podcast Sponsor/Announcer
Yeah.
- [28:43]
Dr. Mark Hyman
I'm sure when you were modeling, and most people probably know your model, you were putting, I'm sure, all kinds of toxic crap on your face. Right.
- [28:50]
Miranda Kerr
It was so interesting because it was, you know, I've been modeling since I was 13, and I have traveled the world, and I've seen a lot of the tricks and tips that people would do to have their skin glow. And so I incorporated that knowledge into coral organics in a certified organic way. So making sure that you exfoliate the skin and then, you know, and that will. And then you feed it with the right nutrients, like with the Noni Glow face oil and my turmeric moisturizer. And then you really do have glowing skin. And so it's interesting that as much as there were products that, you know, were full of parabens or synthetic ingredients, there, there was, like, a purpose to them that I've kind of included that purpose and created a certified organic version, which is pretty amazing. Like, we were, you know, some of the first in the industry to make certified organic skincare and certified organic vitamin C. And we were, you know, way ahead of the whole clean beauty trend, which to me can be a little bit of a dirty word because it's not regulated. And that's why I Always wanted certified organic from day one, just so that there was no confusion. And you don't have to take my word for it. It's regulated by an outsider source.
- [30:19]
Dr. Mark Hyman
How do women, or even, you know, men. Men use skin, hair products too. How do they kind of find the right stuff because. And how do they identify ingredients that are problematic and that could be harmful?
- [30:29]
Miranda Kerr
Fragrance, to me, is a big one. And I know you mentioned it before, so we use aromatherapy. So we use essential oils, no synthetic fragrance. And we use it at a very minimal level to not cause any allergies, but still to help, say, for instance, like the peppermint oil that helps with sebum production. So it's like a therapeutic way to use the essential oils. And I have been using essential oils for many years, and I love the benefits of essential oils. And because I do think that as human beings, like, we are sensory beings. And. And that's where. Why a lot of people like fragrance, but they just don't understand how disrupt. Disruptive fragrance can be to their body. The synthetic fragrances. And yeah, I have a no fragrance policy for anyone coming into my house because I don't want that around my children. It's really disturbing, to be honest, how unaware people are.
- [31:36]
Dr. Mark Hyman
And it's everywhere. And people have those air fresheners in their car. I'm like, oh, God, those are so toxic.
- [31:40]
Miranda Kerr
I mean, everything. Cleaning products, skincare, hair care. It's sad. And I kind of feel like, as I'm sure you would say, going back to the basics is kind of where it's at. It's not about this artificial fragrance or artificial sweeteners or all these artificial things that in the long run can cause so much disturbance in your body. And that's actually one thing my mom didn't realize until after she was diagnosed because we thought we were healthy. Right. But she didn't understand. Had a big fragrance collection. And that was her, like, pride and joy. And she was lathering it all over herself every single day and didn't realize, like, she's like, oh, but we're eating fresh produce, you know, and we're taking care of ourselves. We're drinking the noni and whatnot. But, you know, it's. It's really that 360 view of everything. She was lathering herself and in fragrance every day. And it was unnecessary, necessary.
- [32:46]
Podcast Sponsor/Announcer
Yeah.
- [32:47]
Dr. Mark Hyman
And people don't realize that these things have been linked to harmful human effects. And as a doctor, I'm very aware of these things, like linked to cancer, reproductive health, they're often endocrine disruptors. They screw up your women's hormones, they can be very toxic. And then it's not like you're just doing it once, you're doing it every day for decades. Right. And that's what concerns me. And it's sometimes hard in an individual to link the data together, but the cumulative long term exposure is real and the regulatory gaps are huge. So the FDA doesn't actively test these products for long term safety. They leave it up to the industry to kind of self police and it's kind of just crapshoot for most people. And there are some groups out there like Safe Cosmetics and ChemTrust that actually help create awareness about chemical products. Environmental working group, like I mentioned, which is really important. The fact that you're using ingredients that literally you can eat on your skin is an amazing.
- [33:44]
Miranda Kerr
And we're aw certified as well.
- [33:47]
Dr. Mark Hyman
That's, that's great. So people can go to Skin deep and, or ewg.org and they can look and download the app Skin Deep and they can put in their product, they can see what's in it, they can see the harmful effects of these compounds that have been studied in animals or humans and then they can kind of find things that score better so they can use them safely. And Core Organics is clearly one of those standout products that I don't have any investment in or any affiliation or I don't particularly use them because I don't, you know, I use other things like I use Lolita skincare products for myself. But I think that, that it's, it's, it's really an important thing that people need to understand that especially women who are putting this stuff on their body every day. We've seen the increasing rise of cancer and there's many reasons for that. But, but there's something you can take off your list. You might as well take it off your list, right. If it's something you have control over, you. You can't control the air pollution, you can't control what I always say. Oh, we can see the food supply, right? Yeah, yeah, yeah. So like you, you. But you can control what you put on your body.
- [34:44]
Miranda Kerr
Yeah.
- [34:44]
Dr. Mark Hyman
And I think for, for anybody listening, it's, it's not trivial and it's cumulative and at one time if you put on sunblock that you get at a beach somewhere and it's whatever, who cares? But like if it's, it's the repeated daily exposures that are really the problems. The other thing I wanted to ask you about is in terms of skin, because it's clearly a focus you've spent a lot of time on.
- [35:03]
Podcast Sponsor/Announcer
Is.
- [35:04]
Dr. Mark Hyman
Is clear it's coming from the inside out and the outside in.
- [35:08]
Podcast Sponsor/Announcer
But.
- [35:08]
Dr. Mark Hyman
But also you talk a lot about the role of. Of stress and how that aff. And how you look. And everybody knows that if you see someone who's chronically stressed, they just look worse, they look older, the skin looks worse. And how do you kind of think about that and how do you help women think about that? Because you mentioned TM and meditation and yoga and other things that you do to help regulate your own stress response. Because I think it's really important for people to understand that it's not just about what you put on your skin that makes your skin look good.
- [35:34]
Miranda Kerr
Yeah, it's definitely more than that. And that's why with Chlora Organic, it is really about mind Body skin, by the way.
- [35:41]
Dr. Mark Hyman
I've never heard that before. That's good. Mind, body skin.
- [35:44]
Miranda Kerr
Yeah.
- [35:44]
Dr. Mark Hyman
No, it's great, though.
- [35:46]
Miranda Kerr
So you feed your body with nutrients to function at its best, but you feed your mind with positive affirmations. And so on the back of every Kora Organics product, there's a positive word. I'm sure you've heard of Mazaru Emoto, the Japanese philosopher who studied the power of words and how every word has a vibration. So on the back of every CORA product, there's a word of like, bliss, love, joy, uplifting. Like, they're all words that are very supportive for you as a person. And I really believe in the power of words and how they can really help uplift you. And then, in addition to that, all of Core Organics products are filtered through and touch upon rose quartz crystals in the manufacturing process.
- [36:33]
Dr. Mark Hyman
Oh, wow.
- [36:34]
Miranda Kerr
Yeah. So that vibration of love, even if you don't know about it, you're feeling that energy when you're using the products and you're doing your monotonous skinned care routine in the morning, you're feeling that love. There is a lot of intention around everything that I do. And so first and foremost, obviously, to be certified organic is like the most important thing. Secondly, our products are getting extraordinary results, results for people's skin. So I don't want to put on something on my skin unless it's actually working and it's results driven. And so we do a lot of testing to really prove the efficacy, because there's a misconception that certified organic maybe is not as powerful, but we've proven that wrong with our tests. And a Lot of our products show that if you use the product, for instance, for instance, our plant stem cell alternative, it's like a retinol alternative. And so we asked die hard retinol fans, do you get better results using your traditional retinol or our alternative product with bakuchi oil and, and sie. And they said they got better results. It was 85% of them said they got better results using my products, which are all certified organic. And that's pretty amazing.
- [37:55]
Dr. Mark Hyman
And retinol is a skin care product that's a prescription for doctors prescribe for wrinkles. So this is a big deal.
- [38:00]
Miranda Kerr
This is a huge deal to help treat wrinkles in a way that's good for you. That die hard retinol fans are saying, hey, this product right here, the alternative that I've created with Kora Organics, the plant stem cell alternative is really giving me the results I need more so than my traditional retinol. So you can get the results you need without hurting your, your body, without harming your body, putting unnecessary chemicals in your body. And in doing so you're getting glowing, beautiful skin, the same without turmeric glow drops that we just launched. I'm just remembering. Oh yeah. So I have actually the results here of that. It says 92% said skin texture was improved the pores, 80% said their pores were minimized and 90 said their skin looks smoother, healthier and their skin tone improved. So I mean it's, they're hard hitting results, amazing that really help people's skin. I want small pores, I want less wrinkles, I want my, I want to have like glowing skin, you know. And so this is the way to do it in a way that's good for you and also good for the planet. Because we're a climate neutral certified brand as well. We were one of the very first to make the little refill pod. So you buy the, the glass jar once and then you buy these little refill pods thereafter. I remember sitting with our manufacturer and saying, I want to do like a little coffee pod that you put in and you pop out and you just need to buy that and you can and then just buy those little refill pods. So that was definitely a fun thing to create because now the industry has actually copied that and have mass marketed that which is great for the environment. So I'm happy about it. But yeah, it's just, it's fun to create these products and know what a difference they're making to people's skin. And also knowing that I'm doing it in a way that's climate neutral as well.
- [40:01]
Dr. Mark Hyman
That's great. So you really started working on multiple levels of personal care and planetary care at the same time, which is great. And I think people, you know, separate skincare from cleansing products like shampoo or body wash or conditioner. But those are also full of all kinds of stuff that's potentially harmful if used chronically over time. And can you share a little bit about how you, how you handle that?
- [40:22]
Miranda Kerr
Yeah. The body wash is something I use on my kids and I actually even shampoo their hair with it. And now that I have my, you know, they're getting older. Like my 7 year old, I was like, oh, why don't we just actually try shampoo? And he's like, no, I want the core out. I was like, oh, okay. So we're still using the CORA on my kids. Obviously my teenager, no, I don't think he is. But he has his own hair routine that he's into right now because his hair is like a thing at this age. And yeah, body wash, body lotion and body oil. My kids, I just, I love, especially my baby who's one and a half, when he gets out of like I bath him, we use a body wash. I know that it's, you know, safe for him. I know that it's good for him and I know that, you know, everything in there is like, as I said, like safe. So when he gets out of the bath, I make sure that I give him a little massage because massage, I think is one of another key to health and wellness. Like massage is so underrated. And so I massage in the body oil and the body lotion together and he loves it and massage his little feet, his legs. I just, you know, in Ayurveda, massage is so important and the use of oils is so important and just kind of massaging the joints and rubbing it all in. And that's what I do to him and I've done to all of my children when they were babies. They don't let me do it now because they're, you know, they almost have a 6 year old, a 7 year old and 14 year old. But they do use the body lotion on themselves. They're not really, they're at that age where they're like, I don't want oil, you know, but they'll use the body lotion and the body wash. And when they were babies, it was just my favorite thing to do with them. Massage their little bodies with these products that you know, are doing good for Them that are helping their skin.
- [42:13]
Dr. Mark Hyman
I bet they like that.
- [42:14]
Miranda Kerr
Yeah. And they're putting on the nutrients into their skin. You don't have to be concerned about it.
- [42:19]
Dr. Mark Hyman
And I think, I think, you know, one of the things, you know, you, you said you have four kids and I'm sure you learned a lot about how to take care of yourself in pregnancy and after pregnancy. But, you know, you know, most people don't think about if you're pregnant, what are you putting in on your body and how's that affecting the baby?
- [42:32]
Miranda Kerr
Oh, yeah.
- [42:33]
Dr. Mark Hyman
And you have a whole sort of line of products that are for pregnancy and postpartum. And let me just sort of chat a little bit about that, because something people really don't think about, and women should think about it, because whatever you eat, whatever you do, whatever you think, whatever you put on your body is going to affect your baby in so.
- [42:50]
Miranda Kerr
Many ways that they're finding out now, like, every thought you think, as you said, affects the baby and like, that does. I know myself when I was pregnant, I understood that, and I was very conscious to stay calm and do my yoga. I was very good at practicing yoga daily when I was pregnant with Flynn because I didn't have, you know, the other children to run around after as well. And it's just kind of maintaining that consciousness, knowing that it's all interconnected. And a lot of doctors these days will tell you that obviously you can't be retinol on your skin. And so I've developed a retinol alternative. And then there are certain things you really should be aware when you're pregnant that you shouldn't be putting on your skin. And I feel like I wanted to nourish my body so much when I was pregnant, even more than now, because you feel so responsible for that little being that you have inside of you. And it's kind of like a nice excuse to pamper yourself a little bit more. And so I would love putting the body oil all over myself, like, especially because it helps prevent stretch marks. And we've had so many testimonials specifically about that, preventing stretch marks, and then also minimizing the appearance of stretch marks if they haven't used it prior this. Really, the essential fatty acids that are in the body oil really help with that, the elasticity of the skin. And so to me, that feels really good that I have these products that I've used throughout all of my pregnancies and I've known how beneficial they are. And it's fun and exciting for me to Share that with the world.
- [44:34]
Dr. Mark Hyman
Another big category that is used daily by men and women, and we're taught to do this, particularly on our face, is sunblock. And there's a million sunblocks out there. And you have a unique product that is a mineral based product. And one of the things that's a lot of in a lot of these skincare sunblock products is parabens, which are sort of an endocrine disruptor. And I remember I had a patient once who we did her urinary test for environmental toxins and her paraben levels.
- [45:06]
Podcast Sponsor/Announcer
Were off the chart.
- [45:07]
Dr. Mark Hyman
I'm like, what are you doing every day? Well, I put the sunblock on my face every day so I don't get sun damage and wrinkles. But meanwhile, she's potentially increasing risk of other kinds of cancer instead of skin cancer that may be more, more serious than just sun damage on the skin. How have you navigated the sunblock market? Because I find it confusing. I think Skin Deep has a guide on it, but there's a lot of products out there that claim to be good or not. And how did you come up with your skincare product that actually helps as a sunblock? And how do you recommend people use.
- [45:38]
Miranda Kerr
That, especially as a mother and wanting to keep your children safe when they're outside? And coming from Australia, I've been drilled into me to wear sunscreen, but I was so hesitant because I also had learned through a lot of my, you know, research that there are some sunscreens that are obviously not good for you and they have unnecessary chemicals that could contribute to other things, as you mentioned. And, and so I was on this mission to create certified organic skincare sunscreen and something that I felt comfortable putting on myself and my kids. It is, you know, it, it's, it's for your face and it is SPF 30. And it took me, I think, about six years back and forth with the chemist perfecting it. And it's a non nano zinc oxide sunscreen. And it is just a really beautiful product. You feel like when you're using it.
- [46:36]
Dr. Mark Hyman
You know, it doesn't make your face white because a lot of mineral based ones make.
- [46:40]
Miranda Kerr
Let me just show.
- [46:40]
Dr. Mark Hyman
You look like you look like a clown, right?
- [46:42]
Miranda Kerr
Exactly. I'll put a little on my hand here so that you can see that melts into your skin really beautifully. There's no white cast. It just kind of gives you the most beautiful glow, almost like a, a primer. And so much so that I like to wear it even to prep my skin before I put my makeup on even if I'm going out at night and I don't necessarily need sunscreen. And yeah, as you said, it's 100% mineral based sunscreen. And it took me so long and you know, I'm, I'm so happy with the formulation and I know that you can feel good about putting it on your skin.
- [47:25]
Podcast Sponsor/Announcer
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Dr. Mark Hyman
And we're breathing that in all day long.
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- [48:55]
Dr. Mark Hyman
And thank me later. You know, one of the things that I often say to people is if, if there's an ingredient you can't pronounce on the label, you shouldn't eat it. Now I know skincare is a little more complicated because you have to put in different ingredients to make it have certain properties. And I know there's certain ingredients that certainly I haven't seen or don't recognize or can't pronounce. And it might give me pause. And when people look at the label, they might go, okay, what is, you know, alumina or sesquicaprylate or isosteric acid or things that are in there? Can you talk about those things? Because, you know, I know you've researched these things. I know there are things that actually are likely safe. So how do you kind of navigate that? Because you have to make a product that both is good for you, but also applies well, that doesn't have bad properties to it and that actually can be used on a regular basis without causing a mess, right?
- [49:51]
Miranda Kerr
Yes. And that's where obviously, I have a team, product development team that works with me and our chemist, and they have the knowledge of what. What is, you know, able to be used in a certified organic as, like, as a. As an alternative to the un. Healthy ingredients. And so they're very knowledgeable in that. And every single one of our products, we. Every ingredient has its purpose, and it's used to kind of give you the results you need. But in a way, there's still certified organic. So. So I don't know, off the top of my head, all the ingredients, but I do know that it's very well thought out because the products themselves, as I said, the texture has to be good. It needs to melt into the skin. I don't want it to be with this sunscreen, for instance, like having a white cast or with the moisturizer. I need it to melt in and not, you know, not be sitting on the surface of your skin. And so I'm just very grateful that I work with some of the best in the industry that help formulate that. And I. I'm the one that is very much passionate about these key ingredients and what are the key ingredients and what works well synergistically with those key ingredients. And then I love, you know, going back and forth, giving feedback on how can we perfect this, how can we make that even better? Because I don't want to put it out there. If I'm 90% happy with it, it needs to be more than 100% like that I'm happy with it and that I want to use it and that I feel good about using it and that it gives me the results and it still has the great texture. Like it's. There's so many things to think About.
- [51:37]
Dr. Mark Hyman
But what I noticed when I look at you have the ingredients listed in quite detail on the website. And I noticed that most of these things are things that actually I would eat like aloe vera or avocado oil or probiotics or sea buckthorn, which source of a very important ingredient called GLA, which is an anti inflammatory omega 6 oil. And I'm like, wow, this is really cool. You've got, and you've got saccharomyces, which is a probiotic that fights against fungal infections. And I think this is really well thought out. And it's also got kind of exotic plants that most people don't know about that have really powerful medicinal properties. So it's kind of like this alchemy. You'll put together of compounds that together not only can be nice to use and feel good and look good, but that actually are, you know, food is medicine in a sense, but like skincare is medicine. It's like I never thought of that before, but it's kind of like what you're doing essentially. Right?
- [52:32]
Miranda Kerr
Yeah. I mean that. I'm so glad that you've made that connection because that's the intention is really just feeding your skin. Every time you're using Kor Organics, you're feeding your skin with the nutrients it needs to function at its best and to glow and be radiant and, and feel. Because, you know, the one thing for me is like I want to make people feel better after they're using these products. And when your skin glows, you feel more confident. And that I think is so rewarding for me to get that feedback from people like, wow, this has really transformed my skin. And they're feeling good about it and they're feeling, you know, positive and excited about their skin now because they are getting such a dramatic difference and they're getting in a way that's healthy for them.
- [53:18]
Dr. Mark Hyman
That's amazing. Well, I know you said you sent me stuff, I was traveling, so I'm gonna go dig around my packages to see what's come. Because I'm excited. Okay. I'm excited to try. You know, I want to sort of close by asking you, for those listening and particularly woman over 35, you know, where should they start and how do they start thinking about taking care of their future selves and, and you know, you talk about how you want to be the grandma with the most beautif. How do. How do they get there?
- [53:45]
Miranda Kerr
Well, I think that information is power. So kind of, as you said, using those websites that are available, like ewg and learning about different products that are healthier for them than the ones they might be currently using or going to Skin Deep and putting their own products in there and seeing how detrimental they might be if they're using them every day and just kind of making educated decisions. No one's saying that you have to do everything a hundred percent pure a hundred percent of the time, but if you have a choice to make and you are going to get just as an incredible result from using, you know, these products, then why wouldn't you. That way you're not, you know, hurting your, harming yourself and you're still getting the results that you need. So, so I would say definitely use those tools to make an educated choice for yourself. But in addition to that, I would say, you know, prioritize your health, prioritize sleep. Sleep is so important for us. And I feel like one of the keys to my health is going to bed early because I do get up early for my, for my children and, and it's, it's something I'm naturally a night owl. And before I met my husband I was still a night owl, even though I knew it was better to go to sleep early. But I just, I just am feeling so much better from going to sleep. Like literally I go, I'm. Last night I think I was in bed at 8:30 and then I was wide awake this morning at 5am and I was like, this is amazing. And one thing I've been doing that really is incredible is waking up with the sunrise. So once I'm awake, I then open the windows and I watch the sunrise come up. And you might know about this, but I've heard that before sunrise, like 20 minutes before actual sunrise light is so healing and so powerful and contains like a lot of healing properties. And so I've been doing that lately watching the sunrise and really noticing the difference. And some other things that I would kind of encourage for, as you said, for these women is just to like prioritize eating healthy and, and making these healthy swaps that you can do for your, your family and for yourself. Like for me that's kind of, I believe, not using like artificial, like sugar. I'll use maple syrup instead. I actually used to put honey in my tea, but now I do maple syrup because I know that honey shouldn't be heated. And I've learned that and you know, and I just feel like those little things that you do and like obviously eating fresh local produce and finding movement that resonates with you and being consistent with mindfulness Practices. For us as a family, we like to start the day with three things that we're grateful for. And I ask each of my boys, what are you grateful for today? And I'm like, and I, you know, they often at a point where like saying the same things and I was like, okay, it's got to be different than yesterday because they're like my family and the roof over our head and you know, my best friend. And I'm like, okay, it's got to be different. Let, what else are we grateful for? And we expand that gratitude. And having that, that attitude of gratitude is a beautiful way to start the day. And, and, and being kind to yourself because you need to learn to be kind to yourself and gentle with yourself before you can ever be kind or gentle with anyone else.
- [57:26]
Dr. Mark Hyman
Yeah, I mean, that's beautiful you're saying that because most of the things you're saying have nothing to do with what you put on your skin. They're things about how you take care of yourself. And I remember early on in my career there was a guy named Nicholas Perricone who was a physician and dermatologist who wrote a book called the Wrinkle Cure that I read. And essentially what his thesis was is that inflammation makes your skin look bad. And that if we live, and if we live an anti inflammatory lifestyle, we're going to look better and we're going to feel better and it's going to be beauty from the inside out. Whether it's eating more organic omega 3 rich foods like wild salmon, or taking various antioxidants in your diet. Salmon wild caught. That's right, wild caught. So I thought, you know, it was really early on and I was like, oh, wow. Beauty is really from the inside out. And yes, there's a lot of products that you can put on your skin that will help. But if you don't start with the basics, which is what you just laid out. And we all see this, we see people who don't take care of themselves, who are smokers, who drink too much, who are inflamed, who eat processed food. And you know what's amazing to me, Miranda, is that, you know, as a doctor, I put people on a 10 day reset program. It's like, I call it like hitting the reset button and turning your body back to its original factory settings. And essentially it's a very anti inflammatory whole foods diet that takes away a lot of things that you remove from your diet like gluten, dairy, sugar, processed food and so forth. And it's unbelievable what happens in just such a short time. All the fluid puffiness goes out of their skin, the inflammation, the redness goes out of their skin. They look healthier, they're glowing. And it's just, it's. It's like, it's a doorway that most people don't think about. And the beauty industry has gotten so big, and it's. In a way, it's. It's putting a lot of women at risk unnecessarily. And I think, I think, you know, you're leaning into creating a business that actually helps women make better choices and even men. And I'm excited to start using more of your products.
- [59:25]
Miranda Kerr
Yeah, I'm excited. Please let me know how you feel after you've been using them, how your skin is.
- [59:30]
Dr. Mark Hyman
Like, I'm 65, so I need all the help I can get, so.
- [59:33]
Miranda Kerr
Well, we really got to make sure that we've sent you the plant stem cell range, because that really helps. And also we have a mask, the. The mask that I use every night and the milky mushroom mask. And it really helps with, like, plumping the skin. So I put it on right before I go to sleep and I wake up and my skin is all glowing and radiant.
- [59:55]
Dr. Mark Hyman
I mean, I feel kind of like an idiot when it comes to skincare. Like, I put on face cream and. But like, after that, I don't really know the routine or how to do it or what to do. Is there a sort of a guide or either on your website or that you share in a book or somehow that people can kind of who don't know what to do, in what order?
- [60:10]
Miranda Kerr
Yes.
- [60:11]
Dr. Mark Hyman
Where they start, Definitely.
- [60:12]
Miranda Kerr
We have the steps laid out on the website. But you're right, it is overwhelming. And for some people like me, it's second nature. But it's. It's not for many, many people and as you said, especially men. So it is laid out on the website. But it also, I believe in kind of like the simplicity as well for people who are getting started, like cleanse a scrub and moisturize. And so. So depending on what your needs are, I really love the turmeric glow cleanser, but we also have an active algae cleansing balm, which people are obsessed with to remove their makeup. I love them both for different reasons, but for men, the turmeric glow foaming cleanser is incredible. The turmeric brightening and exfoliating mask, as I told you about, and the moisturizer, for you, I would suggest the plant stem cell retinol alternative moisturizer. It's this Purple one. And it's really incredible to really help treat aging and those deep lines. And if you look on the website, you will see the before and afters and you will be blown away. So that's kind of like a way to start. And then of course, my husband is really won't go anywhere without the Noni Glow Face Oil. So you won't go wrong there. But there are so many other products for product junties like me that are available there on the website. But starting with the simple like cleanse, scrub, moisturize is a good place to start.
- [61:43]
Dr. Mark Hyman
That's amazing. And I think this might sound like an infomercial for your products. And again, I have no financial interest in them. I don't have any affiliation, I don't get any benefit from it. But the reason I wanted to highlight your work was because we need more companies out there that are giving people alternatives to all the things that are causing harm. And I, on the other end of the spectrum as a doctor, see the harm that's being caused by the choices we make, the things we do, and the unconscious ways in which we actually are using products that we think are fine, that are not. I mean, I once had a patient who had a certain brand of lipstick that was just full of lead. And when I tested her, her lead levels were extremely high. And people just don't know. And so I wanted to highlight what you're doing. I wanted to highlight the fact that beauty comes from the inside out as well as the outside in. And that it's a multi layered process of taking care of yourself at every level in terms of sleep and in terms of managing the caviating stress, what you eat. And that's particularly important. Your microbiome plays a huge role in your skin health. Sweating, saunas. I mean, there's so many things that you can do aside from what you put on your skin, and then you can fix it. I mean, you could do all your skin care products, but if you're eating processed food all day and your microbiome's a mess, you're gonna have a hard time getting to where you want to get to. So I think you're really, you know, adding to our understanding of what's wrong with our products on the, on the skincare market and what we can do to think differently about our health and our skin in a beautiful way. And I, I really applaud you for what you've done, for the commitment you had, and for how you actually are giving people a viable alternative. And now I'm I'm kind of excited to start using these.
- [63:23]
Miranda Kerr
Oh, good. I'm excited for you to try as well. And I, I, you know, when you asked me to come on, I was, was very excited to come on. And I, I really wanted to make sure that I was sharing not just my passion for my skincare, which is my baby and mean. Meanwhile, I just want to make it known that even though I started this in 2006, I still haven't taken a cent from my company because I continually invest it in. Back into the company to grow the company because I believe people really deserve these products. So this is like a labor of love for me. You know, it really is my passion and it's, it's not something that I'm. That I'm actually benefiting financially from, because I'm just putting it all back into the company and into my team and into creating more incredible products that I really, truly believe with my whole heart that people deserve. And, and once they know better, they'll do better. And I want to give that opportunity to them. And I, I feel like we're still one of the certified organic brands, like one of the only certified organic brands out there. And it's a really hard thing to do to be certified organic, because every single thing. And that's why there's not many brands out there that do it, because you have to be audited. Everything needs to be approved, everything the manufacturer has to be ordered at all. The ingredient sourcing has to be at such a high level and, and it's kind of like a lot of extra work for my team, but it's something that I wouldn't want anything else on my skin. I don't just want, like, clean skincare. I want, like, ingredients that are actually feeding my skin and, and putting those nutrients into my skin and super, like, actively working to give me more glowy, beautiful skin. As you said, I do want to be a grandma with great skin.
- [65:11]
Dr. Mark Hyman
And hopefully that's a great place. That's a great place to end. A grandma with gray skin. Well, I want to be a grandpa with gray skin. I just talked to my daughter. I think she's trying get pregnant now, so same thing. I'm on your plan. I'm on your plan. Miranda, thank you so much for coming on the podcast. Thank you for what you've done to great service. And I think, you know, the fact that you revealed that you aren't making a profit from this company, that you're pouring all back in the development and the research says a lot about who you are and what you're doing in the world as an active service to help move the needle a little bit towards health for everybody on the planet. So thank you so much Miranda. Thanks for coming on the podcast and everything you do and I hope we get to hang out in person sometime and and I'm going to go down ruffle through my packages and see if I can find it and if not, I'm going to call you.
- [65:53]
Miranda Kerr
Yes, please do let me know because I will send it to you express.
- [65:59]
Dr. Mark Hyman
All right, well thank you so much Miranda and have a wonderful day and enjoy your four kids and your husband and everything you are standing for.
- [66:05]
Miranda Kerr
Thank you so much. Take care.
- [66:06]
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Dr. Mark Hyman
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Dr. Mark Hyman
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Podcast Sponsor/Announcer
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Dr. Mark Hyman
And every product to meet the most.
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- [66:39]
Dr. Mark Hyman
And expertly vetted by many me Dr. Mark Hyman so check out Dr. Hyman.com.
- [66:44]
Podcast Sponsor/Announcer
Because when it comes to your health, nothing less than the very best will do. That's Dr. Hyman.com d r h y m a n.com please share it with someone else you think would also enjoy it. You can find me on all social media channels at Dr. Mark Hyman. Please reach out. I'd love to hear your comments and questions. Don't forget to rate, review and subscribe to the Dr. Hyman show wherever you get your podcasts. And don't forget to check out my YouTube channel at Dr. Mark Hyman for video versions of this podcast and more. More. Thank you so much again for tuning in. We'll see you next time on the Dr. Hyman Show. This podcast is separate from my clinical practice at the Ultra Wellness center, my work at Cleveland Clinic and Function Health where I am Chief Medical Officer. This podcast represents my opinions and my guests opinions. Neither myself nor the podcast endorses the views or statements of my guests. This podcast is for educational purposes only and is not a substitute for professional care by a doctor or other qualified medical professional. This podcast is provided with the understanding that it does not constitute medical or other professional advice or services. If you're looking for help in your journey, please seek out a qualified medical practitioner. And if you're looking for a functional medicine practitioner, visit my clinic, the Ultra Wellness center at ultrawellnesscenter.com and request to become a patient. It's important to have someone in your corner who is a trained, licensed healthcare practitioner and can help you make changes, especially when it comes to your health. This podcast is free as part of my mission to bring practical ways of improving health to the podcast the public. So I'd like to express gratitude to sponsors that made today's podcast possible. Thanks so much again for listening.