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The Dr. Hyman Show
What Every Cancer Patient Should Know: Lessons from a Survivor | Jace Yawnick
01:04:47
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- [00:00]
Dr. Mark Hyman
Coming up on this episode of the Doctor's Pharmacy.
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Jason
I'm lucky to have had such a tremendous support system. And I can recall my oncologist after he diagnosed me. He said, are you close by to family? Because if you're not, you need to move wherever they are right away.
- [00:19]
Dr. Mark Hyman
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Dr. Mark Hyman
Before we jump into today's episode, I'd like to note that while I wish I could help everyone via my personal practice, there's simply not enough time for me to do this at this scale. And that's why I've been busy building several passion projects to help you better understand. Well you if you're looking for data about your biology, check out Function Health for Real Time Lab Insights. If you're in need of deepening your knowledge around your health journey, check out my membership Community Hymen Hive. And if you're looking for curated and trusted supplements and health products for your routine, visit my website Supplement Store for a summary of my favorite and tested products. Hey everyone, it's Dr. Mark Hyman. Ever wanted to ask me your health and wellness questions directly? Well, here's your chance. I have an exciting exclusive event coming up that you can be part of as a thank you for being a loyal listener on the doctor's pharmacy. On Wednesday, December 4th, I'm hosting a live digital experience called the Diet wars and I want you to join me. I'll be chatting with Dr. Gabrielle Lyon, a Board Certified Family Doc and New York Times Best selling author as we tackle one of the biggest wellness questions out there. Which diet really gives you the best shot at optimal health? Should you be a vegan? Should you be a carnivore? Or somewhere in between? From Paleo to vegan to Carnivore and GLP1s, we'll break down the science, debunk the myths and share our expert perspectives. Help you make the best choices for your health. And here's the best part. You'll be able to interact with me and chat with our amazing community in real time during the event. Plus, if you're a VIP ticket holder, you'll get to join an exclusive Q and A after party where you can ask us all your questions directly. The diet wars is a one time only experience that you don't want to miss, including limited edition merch. It's all happening live on Moment by Patreon. So mark your calendars for Wednesday, December 4th at 9pm Eastern, 6pm Pacific and head over to Moment Co Forward Slash Markheimen to get your tickets. I can't wait to see you there. Welcome to doctor's pharmacy. I'm Dr. Mark Hyman. That's pharmacy with an F. This is a place for conversations that matter and if you have cancer. I've had cancer. Know anyone with cancer? Which pretty much covers almost all of us. I think you're going to find this conversation with this young, brave, 26 year old man, Jason, who is right now in the middle of his own journey in cancer. He's got non Hodgkin's lymphoma, He just finished chemo radiation and he's waiting for his next scan. And we go deep into his story about how he navigated this condition, what he learned and how he's actually become a dedicated advocate and leader in the fight against against cancer. He's actually now focusing not just on himself, but he's literally in the middle of getting treated and he's turned his attention to help others, which is so moving and profound. He's committed to improving the lives of those affected by cancer through support, education, community engagement. He's such a deep thinker, even at the young age of 25. He's built an incredible network of volunteers and supporters making a huge impact in the cancer community. And his vision is really to inspire others through community engagement and content, fostering hope and resilience for cancer patients and their families. So we're going to dive right into this conversation. I literally was in tears. Much of the conversation was just overwhelmed by the wisdom and intelligence and compassion of this young man who has been through hell and has turned that into something beautiful. So I think you're going to love this conversation. Let's jump right in. Well, Jace, welcome to the Doctor's Pharmacy podcast. I'm really honored that you've decided to join and tell your story, which is compelling, it's moving, it's inspiring, and it's courageous that you've taken the opportunity to actually tell your story publicly, through social media, through other avenues, that you've basically created a whole movement to try to raise awareness around how to help people with cancer. And you know you're now 26, right? And you know, you were vigorous, healthy, energetic, you know, you were kind of ripped. I saw you on Instagram before you got cancer, and. And then you were 25, and boom, out of nowhere, you got a bunch of weird symptoms that were initially misdiagnosed and turned out to be a B cell non Hodgkin's lymphoma. And for those who are listening, that's a lymph cancer that is not uncommon. And in fact, my sister had it. And it really is one of those sort of things that can hit younger people, but we're also seeing a rise in cancer among younger people in general across other cancers. So, Jason, I just want to sort of honor you and also kind of invite you to start by sharing kind of the story of how this happened, what was going on in your life, and then how you began to kind of metabolize this experience and actually metamorphize it into something good.
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Jason
Well, first of all, thanks for having me. I mean, I've been a fan of you for a while, so being here, I'll try to kind of suppress my. My butterflies, but it's. It's incredible to be here. So thanks for having me on and allowing me to share my story, man. I mean, where do I begin? The whole process has been a lot to. To digest, and I'm not quite at the finish line yet, but I'm very close, which feels good. But it really goes back to early 2023, where I started to notice sort of some fatigue that I really attributed to just work and stress. I feel like a lot of people are stressed and everybody's working. So I just kind of had this tough it out attitude. And over the course of 2023, the symptoms got worse. What started as a light cough became an aggressive cough, so much so to the point where I was almost becoming sick, almost vomiting from how aggressive the cough was. And that was towards late 2023. But mix that in with. I had shooting pains throughout my back and my arms, all of which very strange. And all of which eventually led to me being diagnosed with non Hodgkin's lymphoma.
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Dr. Mark Hyman
Yeah. And. And, you know, you had, you know, you. You had otherwise a great life, things are going great, and then just it sort of knocked you down. And. And in some ways, you know, for most people would just sort of knock them off their feet. And I imagine it did for you for a while. But what was it that kind of made you take this experience and then transform it into something that could be useful to other people?
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Jason
I honestly, it wasn't, you know, I got diagnosed, and the first thought in my mind wasn't, I'm going to turn this into something great. It was, you know, I want to. I want to call my mom, I want to call my dad, and I want them to tell me that everything's going to be okay. I was terrified. And you're right, I had a great life. I still have a great life. And this just felt like. It felt like a means to something that could be the end to my life. And it's just. It was terrifying. And so it wasn't until after I talked to them and started going through the process that I really transformed this into what it is now. And it happened organically. I didn't say, I'm going to document this journey with the intention of sharing it with the world so that I could become, you know, viral or a public figure. It was so that people that were close to me could follow the journey and hear about what I was going through every day, because I wasn't able to text everybody or call everybody and give them an update on where I was at.
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Dr. Mark Hyman
Yeah. And so you just kind of naturally started sharing, and then it kind of. People started paying attention, and all of a sudden you've got, like almost a million Instagram followers. Right.
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Jason
It was shocking. I mean, the way it truly went was I posted initially on my personal Instagram, which just captured my close family, friends, acquaintances that I'd met over the years, High school, college. And when I was diagnosed, I was super overwhelmed. I did not know what to do. So I posted that. I went on my Instagram and I posted. I was just diagnosed with cancer. I normally wouldn't share this kind of information, but I need support. And I just. That was it, just in text. And I started to get all these people reaching out to me, some of whom had been going through cancer themselves, which was a shock to me because these are people my age. Some of them had family members that were going through cancer. And what emerged from that was every day I would get phone calls and text messages, what's the update today? How are you doing? And as I was tackling all of this, that became overwhelming. So I resolved to form what Today is Jace Beats Cancer. And I posted it on my personal Instagram and I wrote, if you want to follow along as to my daily updates, I'm going to be posting them. I promise to be open and honest on them, and here's the account and go ahead and follow. So for a while, it was, you know, me and a couple hundred of my, you know, Family, friends, acquaintances, and, you know, people that I knew. And I remember I was in the hospital as I was getting chemo, posting the updates as I normally would. And I woke up one morning and I opened my social media apps and there was 20,000 followers on one of them and, you know, 40,000 on Instagram. And I was blown away. I said to myself, I don't, I don't know what's going on here, what's happening. People want to watch this. So it was great.
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Dr. Mark Hyman
And one of the kinds of things that people were responding with because, you know, cancer is one of those things, it's a little bit taboo, right? It's scary to talk about. People don't know how to talk to people with cancer or about cancer. You know, it's. It's sort of. It's got a stigma to it. And, and there's not a. There's often an outlet for people to actually have a conversation about it, who have it, and you touch the nerve. So what were the kinds of things that people were sharing that had, had already had cancer and gone through it, or that were maybe experienced their family? Like, what were the kinds of things you started to hear about?
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Jason
I. I heard so much. I mean, my DMS were on Instagram, were filled with cancer survivors sharing everything about their experience. It was details of what you should be doing. You know, make sure you're drinking enough water. Here, here's something that helped me reduce bone pain that came from my, my white blood cell booster shot. Here are, here's something to prevent the mouth sores that you'll get. And then there were things that were just from the heart which were, you're going to make it, you're going to be okay, or it's okay that you're upset or angry right now, or if you need me, I'm here for you. And they would share their story. They would say, I was a stage 4 cancer survivor or, you know, I was supposed to only have a year left to live, and I'm still alive 40 years later. You know, just the most incredible, invigorating, you know, educational, just, I mean, everything you can imagine. And I was. I mean, it's a huge reason why I was able to have the mindset that I do. Just all these people willing to help each other.
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Dr. Mark Hyman
So just in the, in the process of just sharing your story from a vulnerable place, it actually brought out all these people who then started offering you gifts and being a support system and sort of helping you actually navigate the process from everything from how to Deal with the physical challenges of getting chemo and radiation to. How do you deal with the psychological and emotional and spiritual aspects of, like, having this diagnosis at 25 years old?
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Jason
Yeah, it was the most incredible thing. And coming from a place where, you know, growing up, I was consuming content and a lot of the stuff out there can. Can be negative or you see people online and they're maybe not being so n. To have so many people come to my profile and just showcase the love that people in this world have for each other was super eye opening and a testimony to the goodness that exists. And again, just, I feel, was a crucial part of my recovery and me beating cancer.
- [15:59]
Dr. Mark Hyman
And just for people listening, you know, we're recording this podcast and this really vulnerable window where you finished radiation and chemotherapy, which is. Was what, a six month process?
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Jason
Yeah, just about six, seven months total.
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Dr. Mark Hyman
Yeah, it's a lot. It's a lot to go through. You lose your hair, you, you know, you get sick. It's not fun. And. And you're done. Like you. You did. You did that. You did the hard stuff. And now you're in this window of six to eight weeks waiting until you get your scan to tell you whether or not this is completely gone or if there's still work to do. Right. So can you tell us about what that experience is like being in this? And. And when we post this podcast, I'm sure we're gonna have an update. We'll include it for those wondering. But what. What's experience like for you in the middle of all this? You reported like, crying on your. On your last radiation, you know, just sort of with relief and like, it was very moving.
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Jason
Every moment is different in its own way. But right now I'm in this. I kind of call it. I want to call it a vacation almost. I'm in this middle world where I just. I can't even put into words how I'm feeling mentally about what I just went through. I think about it and it makes me. I mean, I have. I don't know if I should call it grief, but I mean, all this time that just I spent fighting for my life and staring death in the face every day and going through procedures and spinal taps. It's a lot to digest. And every time I finish a checkpoint, a major treatment, like when I finished chemo and when I just recently finished radiation, a piece of that weight is lifted off my shoulders. And it's. It's emotional and it's intense and it's. It just feels like I'm that much closer to being finished. So right now I'm in this middle ground of I just finished the hard stuff. I just finished. You know, I'm done with the chemo, I'm done with the radiation. The fatigue is slowly getting better every day that I'm out of radiation, although it's still present, and I'm just enjoying that. And on the other side, I do have this anxiety where I have all these what ifs, But I try my best to pay those no attention if I can. I try to steer clear of those and just focus on what I know right now and what I know today. And when I get to that point where I do the next PET scan and they. They tell me what I need to know, I'll. I'll process it then. But for right now, I'm just trying to enjoy the moment and. And being here and being present.
- [18:54]
Dr. Mark Hyman
That's beautiful. I mean, that's very courageous. I mean, it's. It's hard to, you know, stare death in the face and. And kind of meet. Meet it directly. And. And I'm wondering what that experience was like for you and how it's sort of been through the last months of treatment, because I'm sure it's been up and down. Like, there's moments of, you know, kind of, I got this. And there's probably moments of like, oh, fuck, you know, can you share a little bit about your inner journey around this?
- [19:24]
Jason
Yeah, it's. I posted so much of the raw truth of what this looks like, but I wasn't able to grab a camera in every moment and grab my phone. And I had some really dark times, and I've talked about that in a few videos I've posted. But there are days where I was getting chemo and I was so weak, and my dad's standing there with me, and, you know, he's watching his son get another chemo bag hooked up, and he's staring, and he's just wondering, you know, who's. You know, how can I take care of my son right now? You know, what can I do? And, you know, to see my dad in that spot where he wants to do everything, he wants to take this away from me. You know, he wants nothing more than for me to be better and for him to not be able to do anything and for everybody to be so weak. Those are some dark times. Those are some dark moments. And you. All you can do is just do your best. That's it. You could just do your best in that moment and you hug people that you love and you thank the doctors and you thank the nurses that are there who are saving your life every moment and asking for nothing in return. And you just. You try to create this fortification mentally around yourself where it's. How can I be honest and truthful to myself and those around me? And then also, you know, how can I make sure that I'm being strong for myself? And I just. Those were the moments that I embraced. But everything from those moments to. There were times where I was at home and it was just me and my girlfriend, and I'd be in the bathroom and the chemo is making me sick and I'm throwing up and I have no energy, and she's having to pick me up off the ground. My, you know, this woman that I love and, you know, help me back to bed. And I can't. I can't get back into bed. So, you know, getting. We had to get a stool so that we could step up on the stool and get it, climb into bed. And it's. It was hard. I don't have all the words for it, but, you know, there were. There were hard times, but there were. There were beautiful times, too.
- [21:51]
Dr. Mark Hyman
Wow. I'm very, very touched by that. I mean, I, you know, I, you know, can't really imagine. I mean, I haven't been through cancer, but certainly been, as a doctor, helped many patients through it. And my sister, as I mentioned, and, you know, it's, you know, I'm sure there's a lot of thoughts that go through your mind. You know, there's like, why me? And, you know, wtf? And like, what caused this and did I do something to make this happen and what do I do now and how do I prevent this from happening again? And. Right. All that stuff, I imagine, is going through your inner dialogue and, and, and being, you know, you know, being human. You know, our minds sort of tend to have a mind of their own and can sometimes hijack our. Our kind of higher self, I would call it. So how did you sort of, sort of navigate that kind of terrain between your lower self and your higher self in this process?
- [22:59]
Jason
Like. Like my inner mind. Like, how did I speak?
- [23:02]
Dr. Mark Hyman
Your inner dialogue is like. Is like, yeah, you're having all this. Thoughts that are kind of not great. Right. That may not be connected to reality, that are just fear or belief or projection. And how do you kind of tap in for you. I'm just asking for you, how did you tap into this place where you were able to sort of persevere and end up where you are.
- [23:25]
Jason
Now, first and foremost, I'm. I'm lucky. I have so many friends and family close to me that are there for me. And not just there for me mentally, but, you know, physically are close by my parents or my mom lives only 30 minutes away. My girlfriend lives with me. All my friends live in the area. So I'm lucky to have had such a tremendous support system. And I can recall my oncologist, after he diagnosed me, he said, are you close by to family? Because if you're not, you need to move wherever they are right away. And it was true, because you can't take this stuff on alone. So to answer your question, first thing that I need to give credit to are the people around me. They helped to quiet the other thoughts I was having. They helped to distract me from the pain. They helped to distract me from those thoughts that I didn't want to have. And in the moments where they weren't around and those thoughts were seeking in, you know, the fear for my mortality and what's next and what if this comes back even after you beat it? And all these. All these what ifs. I leaned on the things that I loved. I love music. I have a big record collection. So I'd put on some music or I play some guitar. And outside of that, it was actually verbally speaking out loud what I wanted my mind to think. So in the really hard moments, I would go in my bathroom and I'd look in the mirror at myself and I would say, you are strong. You are beating cancer. You've beaten cancer already. You're going to make it. You're happy. It's okay what you're going through and just continue to say these kind of affirmations. And I did this every day for six, seven months, and I still do them. I mean, it made a notable impact on my mental health. And in those moments where I wanted to think about those other thoughts, I just, boom. Went right into that habit, Went right into speaking those affirmations.
- [25:40]
Dr. Mark Hyman
Yeah, I mean, that's a powerful thing, is most of us don't feel in control of our minds, and they run our lives. And to be 25 and have the presence of mind to go, okay, I know this is just a bunch of noise, and I'm not going to let it take over. Yeah, it's going to come around now and then, but actually, I'm in charge here, and I'm going to take a different d. It's very moving, Jace. You know, I kind of wonder also about your journey in dealing with the probably overwhelming amount of advice you're getting solicited and unsolicited from friends, family, strangers, or Dr. Google or now Dr. Chat, GPT. You know, like, how do you kind of sort that out? Because with cancer, people go, what should I take? What should I eat? What supplements are good? How do I navigate all those things that could help me that, that I maybe should be doing? And how did you kind of navigate all that?
- [26:43]
Jason
Trial by fire in some cases. I mean, I shouldn't say trial by fire, but I was overwhelmed. That is the word. You immediately go, I'm a former and probably still I'm a hypochondriac to the core. Kind of runs in my family. So I've learned the lessons before with, I like how you said it, Dr. Google, where you're going online and typing in, what does this mean? And that's what I was doing before my diagnosis. They had just found the mediastinal masses. I had never heard the word mediastinal. I don't even know if I'm pronouncing it correctly.
- [27:26]
Dr. Mark Hyman
That's good. You're pretty good.
- [27:28]
Jason
Okay, all right.
- [27:29]
Dr. Mark Hyman
You're right on media.
- [27:30]
Jason
I'll take your word for it.
- [27:32]
Dr. Mark Hyman
That means the area in your chest around your heart, basically.
- [27:36]
Jason
Yeah, right here. So they identified. Yeah, right. And I had to go to Google to figure that out.
- [27:47]
Dr. Mark Hyman
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- [30:10]
Jason
Okay, I have to tell you, I was just looking on ebay where I go for all kinds of things I love. And there it was. That hologram trading card. One of the rarest. The last one I needed for my set. Shiny like the designer handbag of my dreams.
- [30:23]
Dr. Mark Hyman
One of a kind. Ebay had it. And now everyone's asking, ooh, where'd you get your windshield wipers? Ebay has all the parts that fit my car. No more annoying, just beautiful.
- [30:36]
Jason
Whatever you love, find it on eBay.
- [30:38]
Dr. Mark Hyman
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- [31:10]
Jason
I started going to Google, looking up mediastinal shadows or masses, and you get all this information. What does this mean? Here's a few links here. And something that I've become aware of and through this experience is there is a enormous amount of information available on the Internet, which we all know. But figuring out what's credible and what's not credible can be a harder task for somebody who doesn't know what they're looking for and where they're looking. So I learned really early on that looking stuff up online was not helpful. And even if it was the correct information, it wasn't going to tell me the true diagnosis. It wasn't going to tell me the things that my oncologist and the other people that were doing the tests on my biopsy and all that, the information they had, the Internet was never going to give that to me. So I learned really early to just not look up anything online. Maybe here and there I'd lightly research something if I didn't understand a term that my doctor had given to me. But I adapted into this habit of just relying on the team that I had. And I had a phenomenal team. I had a few doctors working with me, I had my family who, you know, would help me on the mental health side of things. And that was my core team, and that's who I relied on. And I. I avoided going to Google whenever I could because you just don't know what you're going to get. And more often than not, even if it gives you the correct answer, and I'm putting that in air quotes, if you're listening, it's not going to be necessarily the answer that the credible person that you need to talk to would tell you.
- [33:01]
Dr. Mark Hyman
Yeah, for sure. And in terms of, like, things you incorporated, did you change your diet at all? Did you take any supplements? Did you just pause on everything and just do the chemo and radiation? What was your sort of way of navigating this?
- [33:15]
Jason
I first and foremost went. And I had some habits that I wasn't a fan of. Even prior to being diagnosed with cancer. I was eating some foods that I know you would not be approving of, but I.
- [33:33]
Dr. Mark Hyman
You told me you were drinking Coca Cola.
- [33:34]
Jason
No, I wasn't drinking soda. But, you know, I. I did Enjoy, you know, some of, maybe the more processed deli meats from time to time in a sandwich, I don't know. But even some, I mean, candies I was, I was having every now and again. But other than that, I was relatively healthier. I really would focus on eating USDA organic and non GMO project verified foods. So that's where I really leaned to. I mean, I went to the max on that side. I would only shop and purchase foods with, you know, healthier ingredients. And I, I didn't even just trust the label necessarily. I would actually look at the ingredients on the back and see what was in it. Is there added sugars or are there natural sugars? And just being really careful about what I put into my body because I knew my body was fighting the fight of its life being pumped filled with chemotherapy, which was, you know, destroying a lot of, you know, everything in there, including the cancer. And so I wanted to make sure that I was giving it the nutrients it needed, but also not limiting the amount of food I was consuming. I've read different things, but to put it, put it plainly, I was just trying to eat locally as much as possible. So going to farmer's market and then eating as clean as possible and then cutting out sugar also, that was a big one.
- [35:05]
Dr. Mark Hyman
So that all sounds completely reasonable. You just want to eat real nutrient dense food, not processed food, no sugar. It's just common sense. But I'm curious if your doctor said, eh, what you eat doesn't matter or, yeah, you should probably eat healthy or eat whatever you want. If you're, if you're losing weight, just have ice cream. Like what, what did they say?
- [35:23]
Jason
It's funny you say that because I was shocked when my doctors, a few of them told me I had a few different doctors all working together, which was great. And all of them had various opinions on certain things. But my main oncologist, when he talked about eating, his focus for me was eat whatever you can. I want you to make sure that you're eating, that you have the energy that you need because your body needs nutrients. So very literally he was saying, you know, if you need to eat ice cream or things like that, you know, eat those, eat those foods, eat those things. And that was a bit of a shock to me. I mean, he wasn't saying to go crazy, but his focus was on getting me to eat as opposed to not eating. But when I would look up online and I'm curious to hear your take on, I mean, I read all these things about sugar being a Fuel source for cancer and tumors. Is that the case?
- [36:24]
Dr. Mark Hyman
Are you asking me? Yes, actually, I think that the data is very clear on this, that insulin resistance and metabolic syndrome, which is a result of eating sugar and refined carbohydrates, drives most of the major cancers that we have today. Breast cancer, colon cancer, uterine cancer, prostate cancer, pancreatic cancer, and not so much the lymphomas. I don't think the lymphomas are directly related to diet in the same way that some of these other cancers are. But that said, there's just an enormous amount of data on how to help people through chemo and radiation using things like even a ketogenic diet. And the reason is that cancer only has one source of fuel, which is carbohydrates, whereas your body can run on fat or carbohydrates. So what the data has shown and is pretty clear on this is that the side effects of chemo radiation are far less when you do a ketogenic diet, and that the outcomes in terms of treatment response are better. So I think it's, you know, in some cancers it may be more or less important, and I imagine for non Hodgkin lymphoma, it's probably like less important. But I think, I think it's. It's still, I think, a really important thing to think about. And I, you know, when I was in residency, I had a professor who was oncology. I did the oncology rotation and I, I said just, Just because I was very interested in diet, nutrition, and even back then. And I said, how much of the cancers we're seeing are diet related? And I thought he would say like 10 or 20%. He was like 70%. And this was back in 1986 or something, you know, and I was like, wow. And I think it's. It's true. And it's just astounding to me that doctors still don't acknowledge this and leave their patients in a lurch and worse, tell them to eat things that are maybe harmful to them. I mean, I actually had a patient who was a. A radiation oncologist from MD Anderson, which is the number one cancer center in the world. And, you know, although people from other cancer centers might argue that, but it's. It's basically right up there. Like, you know, I think it's where Kate Middleton went. It's where, like, you know, it's like, it's the place. And, and he was like, listen, I'm so frustrated because I, I completely understand what you do and I understand the importance of nutrition. And I sort of just kind of at a loss of what to do in the oncology space, even at MD Anderson, because the nutritionists and the doctors there are telling people to eat ice cream and eat whatever they want. You know, they're telling breast cancer patients not to eat tofu, but they're, it's like because they're worried about the estrogen tofu, which doesn't actually work like that. But it's, it's pretty, it's pretty shocking. So I know the doctors you had are really good doctors and they're really good people and they know what they know really well. It's just what they don't know sometimes is a little shocking. And people listening to this who, you know are facing cancer, who've had cancer, who, family members addressing this is really important. Getting your nutrition straight is key. And just eating a whole food, nutrient dense diet, which you did, is just, is like 80 to 90% of it. So I think that's so key. But it is one of those areas in medicine. This is challenging. You know, one of the things that, you know, I think it's actually kind of exciting in medicine right now is this whole area of cancer screening because it's very, very hard to, to just detect cancer early enough to really make a difference. Like you were, you had a, you know, you said you had a tumor the size of a softball right before you figured it out.
- [40:23]
Jason
I actually had a doctor. Correct. I said it to him. He was my, actually my radiation oncologist. I shared with him. Oh, that's, that's where my softball was. I joked about it and he said softball. And I thought he was going to tell me it was a lot smaller. And I was like, oh, maybe it was dramatic to say something. He goes nose. Probably closer to like a volleyball.
- [40:44]
Dr. Mark Hyman
A volleyball? Yeah.
- [40:46]
Jason
Right, right.
- [40:47]
Dr. Mark Hyman
Like this big. Right. So think about it, you know, and, and so often cancer is detected late. And you know, we do have screenings like mammograms and pap tests and colonoscopies and you know, PSA prostate tests for blood, blood tests. But they're not that great and they're not that sensitive. And what's really emerged and I'm, I hope your oncologists are going to use this for you is what we call liquid biopsy. Have you ever heard about this?
- [41:15]
Jason
I haven't.
- [41:16]
Dr. Mark Hyman
So, you know, you know about an actual biopsy is because you had one where they have to stick something in you and take a piece of tissue and it's a Surgical procedure. It's not fun. This is basically using blood, a blood test that now we actually have the ability to order this. The main company that does this, it's called a multi cancer detection screening test. And it looks at over 50 different of the most common cancers and through a simple blood sample can detect really early, a year to three before you ever get any symptoms, before you can see it on other diagnostic scans. So it's, it's called gallery by. By grail. And I use it now routinely in my patients. In fact, I just had a patient recently who had some weird symptoms and I'm like, something's off. And I, you know, he would have gone on for quite a while. Kind of like you, like you went to doctor to doctor, you, oh, you have reflux or you have a heartburn or you have a high hernia, you have whatever. And. But I, you know, I kind of, kind of clued into something wasn't right. And I, you know, after 40 years in medicine, my intuition's pretty good. And I'm like, you need to get this test. And he went and did it and he had actually a Hodgkin's lymphoma. And it showed up on this blood test. And so, you know, these are kinds of things that are really important. And actually I co founded a company called function health where you can actually get this kind of testing. And I certainly do it as a routine test now for myself, and I recommend it to my patients. But, you know, the question is, even when should you start? Like, do you start when you're 50 or 60 or you start when you're 30 or 20? Like, I don't think we really know. But as cancer rates are rising in the young, younger population, as people are struggling to kind of learn how to navigate this, the beauty of this test is it helps you detect it very early, before it's spread anywhere. So there are, there are tumor specific liquid biopsies that your oncologist may want to talk to you about. But, but this is part of now cancer care, which is these liquid biopsy screenings rather than just waiting for a PET scan. Or, you know, I. Another patient I had who was given a clean bill of health, but a shaman told her they thought her breast cancer maybe had come back. And she told me the story. I'm like, gee, I don't know. But let's check this multi cancer detection screening test and turn up she had recurred and her doctors hadn't found it. So I think it's, you know, just for people out there listening, who are, you know, concerned about cancer, who perhaps want to get ahead of it and do screening. I think this is a whole new era of oncology, so. And then there's, you know, lots of other new therapies emerging, like dietary ketogenic diet therapies and other therapies that are emerging around immunotherapy. So I think it's, you know, cancer has been in, you know, one of those tough things for medicine. Luckily, your cancer is one of those 100% curable cancers where, you know, the odds of you living a long life and dying of old age are high. So that's good. But we're going to, you know, make sure we keep track of you and follow what's going on. Is, is there any. Anything you want to share about, about, you know, the. The sort of. The effect that actually have you actually creating JCP's cancer and you sharing your story and you trying to help. Help others, even while you're in the middle of, you know, sort of fighting for your life. You know, what was that like? And how did that. How did that impact you?
- [44:47]
Jason
It was part of my healing in a huge way. I once I kind of started to gain this following, I didn't know it happened overnight. Like, it happened over the course of a few weeks. And it was overwhelming. I mean, it was in the middle of this intense cancer treatment, and then all of a sudden, boom, There are hundreds of thousands of people watching you. You know, there's like a pressure that kind of comes with that. And I just knew to myself, I just was like, I'm just going to keep openly and honestly sharing this story because at this point, making the videos had become extremely therapeutic to me. And as we discussed before, there were all these people that were sharing their experiences as survivors, but on the whole other side of this, there was this community of people that were going through treatment at the same time as I was. And I had not realized that there was this whole other section of people until they started messaging me. And it became this really unique bond between cancer patients. Every time I'd see another cancer patient in person, there was just this unspoken kind of, I know what you're going through, you know what I'm going through. We're in this together at the same time kind of mentality and having that even through social media and messaging.
- [46:19]
Dr. Mark Hyman
So, Jace, I'm just very curious about your experience of not only being a patient, but starting a movement. Jspeedscancer.org and how you're serving others by volunteering and sharing your story and supporting others. How does that impact you through this whole process? Because you think, God, cancer, I'm the victim, Help me. But you were actually out there supporting other people, and you actually created a whole platform for people to get involved and to support each other and create community. And it's quite moving. And I'm wondering how that impacted your own journey through this process, because you're still in it, right?
- [47:04]
Jason
So, yeah, it happened organically Once I started to have this. This following that just kept growing as I was going through treatment. As I shared with you before, there's this whole one side of the group that were cancer survivors, and this group was there giving me tips and advice on how to relieve pain here and what I wish I did here and guiding me through this process. And on the other side, there was also this community of other cancer patients going through their own cancer journey. And they would start messaging me or writing letters, and we all started interacting with as many of them as I could. And I realized I have this big platform now. I want to use this for something positive. And I, in so many scenarios, through this, have realized that I'm so lucky. And one of those areas was I have the insurance to cover a lot of my cancer bills. And that's. That's something that I'm very fortunate to have. It's still. There was a lot of costs involved, but when you look at some of these bills, I mean, they. They will. They will follow you for the rest of your life if. If you don't have the insurance to cover them. And so I decided that I wanted to start a nonprofit organization for a few reasons. One was to just find ways to continue to unite this community of cancer survivors and cancer patients and people impacted by cancer. The advocates, the family members, and find a place where we can all connect and to help one another. We do that through. We have a Facebook group, and there's educational resources that are posted and all of that. And I'm still working out how to do all of it, but fortunately, I have some people helping me. But the other side of it was also people wanted to donate to support me. And as much as I appreciated that, I. I am lucky, and I had a lot of it covered, and I was going to figure out the rest of it. But I wanted to help the people that didn't have that insurance to cover their treatments, these extremely costly treatments. So that's what. What led me to initially create this organization. And anybody who was looking to donate to me, I told them I would Love for them to donate so that we could give it to somebody else who needs it. And we've been doing that for ever since, I believe, my second cycle of chemotherapy and just been working with hospitals to identify patients that are in need of that financial assistance. And not all of them need financial assistance. Some of them are looking for a bone marrow transplant match. So, you know, getting it out to the community about their story and hopefully finding them a match. So it's been this growing organic kind of process, but all centered around the ideals of just helping other people with cancer.
- [50:23]
Dr. Mark Hyman
It's so beautiful. And it just, it's like how your tragedy has turned into. And in some ways a blessing for, for so many and also for yourself. It's like this sort of, we never know kind of when we go through these challenges and we go through these various issues, you know, how we navigate that. But it's just. It's just beautiful to see how you, how you've done this, how you've navigated it. Is there anything else you'd love to share about your story about, you know, what you've been through, what you're going through?
- [50:58]
Jason
Yeah, I mean, there's. There's so much that, you know, I could always continue to talk about with, with this journey. But the biggest thing for me has been this passion to help other people. And I say that because before cancer, I admittingly was very self focused. I was really focused on progressing, you know, my own career and getting to this level and, you know, making this much money or something like that and, you know, getting the watch or the car. And I had this experience that I made a video about. And my dad, who, who's my hero, he came over to my home in Florida and he lives in Boston. And this was right before I was gonna start my second cycle. And he sat down with me and said, jace, we need to do some paperwork. And he, he's always been the responsible, you know, helping me to learn finances and budgeting and. And he said, we need to go through this paperwork where we need to understand some things. I said, okay. So he asked the first question and said, in the case that you're unable to, You're. You're unresponsive. What, who do you want to be in charge of your medical decisions moving forward? What do you want those medical decisions to be if you had to be put on life support, how long all these things. And at this point, I was a wreck. I was crying as my dad was reading to me, you know, potential outcomes of what I was about to go through.
- [52:58]
Dr. Mark Hyman
And then that's a conversation you have with a 90 year old, not a 25 year old, right?
- [53:02]
Jason
Yeah, but that's, you know, we had, we had to do the paperwork. And that's my dad. You know, he's, he wants to make sure all the ducks are in a row. And it's good. It's taught me a lot. And then he moved on from that paperwork and looked at me and said, jace, we need to, we need to write your will. And I, him and I at this point were both just in full tears. And I had to look at my dad and tell him about all the stuff that I had that I wanted him to have or my mom to have. And I realized in that moment that I would have given it all away just to have some more time with my dad. You know, that stuff doesn't, doesn't matter. And we, we finished it and we said, we're not going to need this will. We're going to be okay. But in that moment, I realized the importance of what truly matters. And, and for me, that's helping other people. You know, it's not getting the stuff, it's. It's helping the people around me that, that need it. And, and so that's, that's the one thing that, that really has stuck with me through this.
- [54:22]
Dr. Mark Hyman
That is one powerful lesson, Chase. It's something most of us don't get to learn until it's too late. We're so focused on success and accumulation and money and kind of miss the boat on relationships and family and community and, you know, serving others, which is actually what being human really is about. It's not about, you know, getting more followers on Instagram or making more money or having this car or this house or this career. It's, you know, it. You know, I heard Warren Buffett recently talk about time, and he said, you know, I have enough money, I can buy anything I want. The one thing I can't buy is time. And, you know, it's the most precious thing we have. And how we spend it, who we spend it with, what we spend it doing is consequential. It matters. And, you know, you, you've had to face that at a really young age. And it sounds like the Jace that got cancer is very different than the Jace that has gone through the process and is now on the other side of it. And, and maybe you could talk a little bit about more, more about this because I think it sounds like, you know, you're a great kid and great guy. You're doing cool stuff, but, you know, kind of this whole reoriented your life. And I'm just sort of wondering what. What you see as now having gone through this, how you imagine the rest of your life.
- [55:56]
Jason
My stepmother is a. She's a death doula, which. So she frequently meets with people at the end of life and helps them, you know, through what that looks like. And she shared with me this idea midway through treatment where she said, jace, you have to mourn the loss of your former self because the person you will be after this experience will not be the same person. And this was a hard concept for me to grasp at first. I was saying to myself, like, I'm Jace. I'm still Chase. I'm going to still be Jace on the other side. And there's a part of that that's true. But she was absolutely right. I become a different person. And the values that this new version of myself has are different. And what life looks to me, moving forward holds those ideals. It's the ideas of any time I can spend time with my family, people that are still with me today, I want to do that. I want to make it more of a priority to spend those moments being with those people. I want to spend more moments doing the things I love. I also want to spend more moments maybe doing the things that aren't, you know, in my comfort zone. I always would stretch it a little bit, but there are opportunities that we get that we're held back by, you know, with anxiety or fear or, you know, addiction to comforts that we have. And I just. Somebody asked me, if you had a second shot at life, what would that look like? And he said, that's the question you should be asking yourself, because you're going to get a second shot at life here. And so I'm taking that and I'm going with it. And so if I can do the fun stuff, I will and spend time with my dad and my mom and my family. Just, those are. Those are the new ideals that are important to me. Not how can I get enough money to buy a Rolex or do all this or get my sports car. That stuff isn't there.
- [58:11]
Dr. Mark Hyman
Yeah, that's amazing. We all get these lessons, and the person that you, the R like at the core, kind of led you to actually be able to go through this in the way you have and turn it into something that not only changed you, but has changed so many people's lives. And wow. I mean, I'm kind of speechless, honestly, and just kind of moved and Touched and just honored that you've shared your story with us and we'll be sure to follow along and, and everybody, if they want to follow more about you, they can go to jacebeatscancer.org following on Instagram and, and keep on with your story, which I encourage everybody to do. And I think, you know, for those listening, imagine, you know, some of this conversation might be hard to listen to and challenging, but cancer is one of those things. It's like kind of comes out of nowhere and it's, it's, it's, you know, it's not something that people have a really solid way of relating to in the sense of like, you know, am I going to get it? You know, who's going to get it? And, and I think, you know, it's part of the reason that I, I co founded this company, Function Health, was to sort of empower people with the tools to be proactive around their health and to screen for their, their biomarkers and to check for, you know, this cancer screening, which is now available. And you know, you go to functionalhealth.com and forward/mark and you can learn more about what it is. But it's, you know, you know, it's, it's something we don't want anybody to have to go through. Like, you went through it. You turn, you know, lemons into lemonade, but, you know, I wish you didn't have to have lemonade, but who knows? Like, it's like, it reminds me of that story of, you know, the blessing and the curse, you know, the parable where the parable about this young man who's is on this, lives on this farm and, and you know, he's, he sort of goes out and into the field and he finds this wild stallion and, you know, captures it and brings it home. And, and all the friends of the father go, oh, what a, what a blessing. Your son has gotten this beautiful animal and it's now, you know, his. And he's like, well, it seems like a blessing, maybe a curse. And what seems like a curse, maybe a blessing. And then his son, you know, rides the horse but then falls off and breaks his leg. And everybody goes, oh, how terrible. This is horrible. Your son broke his leg. And they go, no, it seems like a blessing, maybe a curse. It seems like a curse, may be a blessing. And then of course, there was a war that broke out and all the young men were recruited to go fight, except he couldn't go because he had a broken leg. You know, it's like the story goes on like that. So it's like, you know, it's really, you know, one of those things we can, we can't predict and we wouldn't wish on our worst enemy. But for me, I had the same, you know, thing. I was 36 and had severe chronic fatigue syndrome that came out of nowhere and was really brought to my knees by, by this illness. And for me, I, you know, it made me become who I am and want to serve people and understand medicine, biology and, you know, I'm kind of relentless about it. So it's really been the catalyst for everything that I've done in my life. So I, I hope this is the same for you. It seems like it obviously is and I just stay in touch and keep this connection.
- [61:35]
Jason
Yeah, absolutely. I appreciate you so much for inviting me on and allowing me to share my story. And just as I've gone through this finding resources. I had been following you before, but people like you and you, the fact that you're out there and sharing people ways for them to stack the odds in their favor is so important because I was perfectly healthy. And then out of nowhere it feels like I got diagnosed with cancer. And there are so many ways metabolically we can prevent it or at least stack the odds in our favor. And there are solutions that are emerging like function health, which I'm excited to look into because I was, I was at my primary care physician and he was doing blood tests and then didn't catch Non Hodgkin's lymphoma through what I assumed would have caught it. So the more resources we have, the better. And again, thank you for having me on and for doing what you do.
- [62:39]
Dr. Mark Hyman
Of course. Well, thanks, Jason. We'll see you. Thanks for listening today. If you love this podcast, please share it with your friends and family. Leave a comment on your own best practices on how you upgrade your health and subscribe wherever you get your podcasts and follow me on all social media channels at Dr. Mark Hyman and we'll see you next time on the Doctor's Pharmacy. I'm always getting questions about my favorite books, podcasts, gadgets, supplements, recipes and lots more. And now you can have access to all of this information by signing up for my free Marks picks newsletter@drhiman.com MarkSpix promise I'll only email you once a week on Fridays and I'll never share your email address or send you anything else besides my recommendations. These are the things that have helped me on my health journey and I hope they'll help you too. Again, that's drhiman.commarkspicks thank you again and we'll see you next time on the Doctor's Pharmacy. This podcast is separate from my clinical practice at the Ultra Wellness center and my work at Cleveland Clinic and Function Health where I'm the Chief Medical Officer. This podcast represents my opinions and my guests opinions and neither myself nor the podcast endorses the views or statements of my guests. This podcast is for educational purposes only. This podcast is not a substitute for professional care by a doctor or other qualified medical professional. This podcast is provided on the understanding that it does not constitute medical or other professional advice or services. Now, if you're looking for your help in your journey, seek out a qualified medical practitioner center. You can come see us at the Ultra Wellness center in Lenox, Massachusetts. Just go to ultrawellnesscenter.com if you're looking for a functional medicine practitioner near you, you can visit ifm.org and search find a practitioner database. It's important that you have someone in your corner who is trained, who is a licensed healthcare practitioner and can help you make changes, especially when it comes to your health. Keeping this podcast free is part of my mission to bring practical ways of improving health to the general public. In keeping with that theme, I'd like to explore express gratitude to the sponsors that made today's podcast possible.