Can Our Marriage Survive This Devastating News?

Summary

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The Dr. John Delony Show

Podcast Episode Summary
Episode: Can Our Marriage Survive This Devastating News?
Date: May 4, 2026
Host: Dr. John Delony (Ramsey Network)

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Episode Overview

This episode of The Dr. John Delony Show centers on real callers wrestling with some of life's heaviest relational and emotional challenges. Dr. Delony fields vulnerable questions—navigating a marriage under the weight of a life-altering illness, dealing with fears of marital disconnect and unmet intimacy needs, and helping children cope when one parent struggles to connect. The unifying theme is real talk about how to face grief, fear, and uncertainty in relationships—while seeking to preserve connection, hope, and humanity.

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Main Callers and Segments

1. Navigating a Marriage and Grieving after a Devastating Diagnosis (Trigeminal Neuralgia)

Timestamps: [00:05] – [15:56]
Caller: Lee, New York

Key Discussion Points

• Life-Changing Diagnosis and Fear of the Unknown

  • Lee’s partner has been diagnosed with Trigeminal Neuralgia ("the suicide disease"), renowned as one of the most painful conditions. There's uncertainty about her prognosis, and the couple is reeling, trying to process "mourning the next month, but not knowing if... years" ([01:33]).
  • Lee expresses admiration for his partner—her resilience, commitment, and love.

• Coping Mechanisms: Honesty, Humor, and Connection

  • Dr. Delony suggests intentional humor and deep honesty as tools to keep their connection alive. He affirms the couple’s high tolerance for "eye rolling laughter" as a strength ([04:03]).
  • Calls their nightly processing sessions their “doom castle,” where they allow themselves to "worst case for a second and then get out" ([03:05]).

• “Seven Minutes in Hell” Practice

  • Dr. Delony introduces the weekly “Seven Minutes in Hell” routine: once per week, each person lists fears—some serious, some ridiculous—for seven minutes of full honesty and dark humor.
    • “What I want you to do... celebrate life recklessly and grieve at the same time. And the third thing... is fear. The unknown.” ([05:38])
  • The exercise brings fear into the open, makes room for grief, forces focus on what can be controlled, and strengthens their “driving” through uncertainty.

• Control, Powerlessness, and Surrender

  • Dr. Delony warns Lee about the dangers of trying to control too much, especially as a healthcare worker. Emphasizes that the partner "has to drive," and that her choices in treatment and appointments must be honored.
    • “The worst thing you can do for somebody with an autoimmune disorder is to drag them around.” ([09:09])

• Avoiding Anticipated Grief and Living Now

  • Highlights an Amos Tversky quote: “Pessimism is stupid... If what you're worried about comes true, you've experienced it twice..” ([10:24])
  • Encourages Lee not to “cash out on living and loving and touching her face every moment possible now for the fear it might go away later” ([10:47]).

• Celebrating, Grieving, and Staying Human

  • Dr. Delony and Lee discuss the importance of balancing vulnerability and humor, maintaining their authentic relationship rather than allowing illness to overshadow their humanity:
    • “We're going to retain our humanity in the middle of the unknown. And that's scary and it's hard and it's day by day, minute by minute, week by week.” ([15:03])

Notable Quotes

• “You're going to have to do something hard, which is celebrate life recklessly and grieve at the same time.” — Dr. Delony ([05:38])
• “Bind the darkness... My hope is it's a time of high honesty and high dark humor.” — Dr. Delony ([05:49])
• “You may need to grieve that that picture has changed—that now she is a strong woman who’s also in the fight of her life... It's exhausting for you. So let's celebrate who she was, let's grieve what's happened to her, and then let's celebrate who she's becoming amidst all of this stuff.” — Dr. Delony ([15:03])

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2. When a Partner Feels Neglected and Feels the Marriage is Drifting

Timestamps: [20:11] – [38:03]
Caller: Louise, Sacramento

Key Discussion Points

• Emotional Disconnect and Expectations

  • Louise describes a marriage that’s “pretty good,” but lacking in consistent affection and emotional connection, especially when both partners are stressed.
  • Expresses fears that her husband is “not wanting the responsibility of being a husband,” and feelings of neglect, particularly after work or due to stress ([20:39], [32:10]).

• Navigating Intimacy Differences and Chronic Illness

  • Louise shares struggles around sexual intimacy—her own fatigue due to a “connective tissue disorder,” his disappointment regarding frequency and quality, and the resulting cycle of tension ([26:09]).
  • Dr. Delony notes that both partners are placing their internal sense of worth and security on each other’s actions and reactions, creating a “moving finish line” ([24:46], [29:48]).

• Self-Fulfilling Prophecies and the Need for Clarity

  • Both become trapped in loops: she’s afraid he may leave (physically or emotionally), he places pressure for change and doesn't feel fulfilled. Both withhold, creating an emotional gap that fulfills each other's worst fears ([32:27], [33:31]).
  • Dr. Delony urges specific, actionable conversations instead of general, emotionally charged ones.

• Invitation Over Challenge: Reconnecting

  • Dr. Delony suggests Louise have a meeting framed as an “invitation” rather than a challenge. She should lay out, “Here are four really clear ways that you can love me in this particular season” and ask what she can do for him ([35:18]).
  • Encourages both partners to stand whole in themselves, to avoid making the other responsible for internal feelings of worth or being “okay.”

Notable Quotes

• “You can only control you. You can only control how well and whole you are before you step on that field, that team sport that is being married.” — Dr. Delony ([37:56])
• “Both of you are creating self-fulfilling prophecies in your house in real time.” — Dr. Delony ([32:27])
• “What must be true for me to feel loved in this home? What must I do to feel okay in my own skin?” — Dr. Delony ([36:40])

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3. Parenting a Sensitive Son Whose Father Struggles to Connect

Timestamps: [40:26] – [57:33]
Caller: Theresa, Sacramento

Key Discussion Points

• A Father Emotionally Withdrawing from His Son

  • Theresa discusses how her husband rarely interacts positively with their 10-year-old son, offering mostly “low-level disapproval” or corrections. The son, in response, tries hard to please, but is met with indifference or criticism—which has begun to affect his worth and emotional growth ([42:23]).
  • Dr. Delony bluntly says, “your husband sucks” ([42:27]), pinpointing the core wound: “What was so bad about me that that guy wouldn’t look up from his phone?” ([42:49])

• Attempts at Repair and the Limits of Parental Control

  • Theresa has tried research-based interventions (Gottman’s “bids,” etc.) without success. Dr. Delony notes that neither criticism nor behavioral corrections will help—without foundational connection, the boy will internalize that he’s the problem ([47:17]).
  • Theresa asks: “Is there anything I can do?”

• Filling the Gap and Providing Other Male Role Models

  • Dr. Delony advises she must do more: be present, play, and create positive experiences herself—even if exhausted.
  • Also encourages exposure to “other good men”—coaches, mentors, positive male adults—since every teacher and scout leader is female ([52:19]).

• Validating the Child’s Experience

  • Dr. Delony cautions against both criticizing the father and sugar-coating, urging honesty: “I wish dad would go play soccer with you, too... Dad's going through a hard season right now. It's not about you. I want to play soccer with you... You're my favorite soccer player. And let's go.” ([53:57])
  • Warns against making the child feel “crazy for the feelings he has” by gaslighting or deflecting ([53:53]).

Notable Quotes

• “Some kids will sing and dance and do whatever they have to do to get their parents to say, I see you.” — Dr. Delony ([43:24])
• “Seven to one: seven positive, connecting things to every criticism.” — Dr. Delony ([50:03])
• “Dads, put down your phones, put down your awkwardness, put down your I don't know hows or I don't want to's and go be present with your kids. Delight in your kids.” — Dr. Delony ([57:04])

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4. The Value of Small Habits in Strengthening Connection (Together App Q&A)

Timestamps: [59:51] – [63:10]

Key Discussion Points

• A Listener Questions the Need for a Marriage App
  • “Why should I pay for an app that tells me to hug my spouse?” Caller ([59:54])
  • Dr. Delony argues that the value is in creating daily, intentional habits and reminders—“because clearly you’re not doing it”—to reconnect outside the routines of life ([62:56]).
  • Reminds listeners: The small “blocking and tackling” moves in relationships matter as much as the grand gestures.

Notable Quotes

• “Should you need an app that tells you to...hug your spouse? No, but you’re not.” — Dr. Delony / Caller ([63:10])
• “It’s just daily habits... it still matters, right?” — Dr. Delony ([62:19])

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Memorable Moments

• Doom Castle and “Seven Minutes in Hell”: Lee and his wife’s nightly talks, facing darkness with laughter and tight boundaries for grief.
• Amos Tversky Quote on Worry: “If what you’re worried about comes true, you’ve experienced it twice.”
• Parental Impact: “Straight A’s can be a trauma response, too.” — Dr. Delony ([43:23])
• Vivid Example: Dr. Delony overcoming his own discomfort (OCD) to do “gross things” for the sake of connecting with his son ([48:02]).

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Summary Table of Key Timestamps

| Time (MM:SS) | Segment/Theme | |:--------------|:---------------------------------------------------| | 00:05-15:56 | Navigating a devastating diagnosis in marriage | | 20:11-38:03 | Intimacy struggles and cyclical marital disconnect | | 40:26-57:33 | Parenting a sensitive child with a distant father | | 59:51-63:10 | Value of routine connection & the Together app |

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Conclusion

Throughout the episode, Dr. Delony weaves empathy, tough love, and practical wisdom to help listeners face pain, powerlessness, and uncertainty within their most vital relationships. His core message: grieve honestly but don't cash out on life or love before it's gone; foster connection through intentionality, even when awkward or uncomfortable; and protect the humanity in each other, even when adversity and resentment threaten to consume it.

Transcript

[Caller]

How do I navigate a life changing diagnosis when my partner has an invisible disease? And I guess the other part is, how do I grieve? Unknown.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

What's the diagnosis?

[Caller]

Trigeminal neuralgia.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Oh, man.

[Caller]

So you look it up and it's, you know, number one most painful diagnosis that someone can get.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

What up, what up, what up? Hey, I'm John with the Dr. John DeLoney show coming to you live from Nashville, Tennessee, taking your calls on your mental health, your emotional health, your marriage, whatever you got going on in your life. All of us are trying to figure out what to do in a world that's lost its freaking mind. That's why I'm here. Pull up a seat and we'll figure out what's the next right move for you, your marriage, your kids, whatever you got going on. Let's go out to New York City, New York and talk to Lee. What's up, Lee?

[Caller]

Hey, Dr. John.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

What's up, homie?

[Caller]

Oh, not much, brother. I'm, I'm in it right now.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Let's hear it, man. What's going on?

[Caller]

Yeah, I guess, you know, listen to you for a long time. Really, really love all the wisdom you give and thank you so much to you guys, my team, but my question, you know, how do I navigate a life changing diagnosis when my partner has an invisible disease? And I guess the other part is how do I grieve the unknown?

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Oh, man. What happened? What's the diagnosis?

[Caller]

Trigeminal neuralgia.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Oh, man.

[Caller]

So you look it up and it's the suicide disease, you know, number one most painful diagnosis that someone can get. You know, she was diagnosed a few weeks ago. I work in healthcare in New York and kind of seeing the other side of the system and how, you know, for context, for everyone. It's a severe, shocking pain to one side of the face that is debilitating. Puts people on disability and, you know, navigating people thinking it's stress and thinking it's a period and thinking it's everything else except for the diagnosis. And so we have a diagnosis, you know, but the short term, she's going on short term medical leave, so kind of mourning the next month, but not knowing if this is something that's going to respond quickly to therapy or if we're looking at years. And this is somebody incredibly healthy, no medical problems, works two jobs, stepmom to my two beautiful kids, best woman I've ever met in my life. And we're kind of having to. With the hand grenade dropped a little bit.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Yeah, man, she's lucky to have you.

[Caller]

Thanks, man.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

She's pretty fortunate, man. It's awesome. Those things you said to me, have you told them to her?

[Caller]

Yeah, man. We good. We sit on a, on a big couch every night and we talk through all of the, all of the stuff. I. I call it a doom castle. We sit in the doom castle and we worst case for a second and then get out and we shut the door and try to focus on the treatments and how early we're getting workups and.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Yeah. So what is your. I remember a comic saying this one time and it stuck with me and I found it to be true. Every time I'm in New York, they said, yeah. The reason most comedians, long term comedians come out of New York is humor is in the air. Like, even the trash guys are funny. Like, even when people are like, yeah, get out of here. Like, they're funny about it. Right?

[Caller]

Yeah.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

What is you and your, like, wife's.

[Caller]

What.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

What is Yalls tolerance for eye rolling Laughter?

[Caller]

Very high.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Okay.

[Caller]

Very high. All right.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Perfect. We.

[Caller]

We. The first night she was having, she actually, she had passed out on me and I. She was gone for a second. Which. Therapy for a long time. Yeah. Working healthcare. It was very scary. And we got to the ER and he asked, you know, hey, what'd she look like when she woke up? I said, well, she looks like Michael J. Fox. She's got arms going everywhere and. But you know, we've tried to make light of. Of a lot of it. It. Yeah, it just seems like the, I don't know, the darkness has a little bit easier time hovering lately.

[Caller 2 / Wife / Mother]

Yeah.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Yeah. And so here's what I want to do. And it's a strange thing I'm going to tell you to do. Okay. Because it feels impossible when I say it and I want you to practice it and you're going to realize that you can. Okay.

[Caller]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

I want you to bind the darkness.

[Caller]

Yeah.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Here's what I mean. I want you all to have. Not every night in a doom castle.

[Caller]

Yeah.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

I want you to have a. Once a week. You've kept a list. And she's kept a list. Seven minutes. There's that game we played when we were kids called Seven Minutes in Heaven, where you go French kiss in the closet.

[Caller]

Right.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

I want you to play Seven Minutes in Hell once a week.

[Caller]

Okay.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Where you read your list and she reads hers. And I want you to intentionally put some ridiculous things in there.

[Caller]

Yeah.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

But what I want you to. Here's what I want you to do. Y' all are going to have to do something hard, which is celebrate life recklessly.

[Caller]

Yeah.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

And grieve at the same time. And the third thing that's even more scary is fear. The unknown.

[Caller]

Yeah.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Right. And so when you put all these fears down, when you all have this time of seven minutes in hell together once a week.

[Caller]

Yeah.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

My hope is it's a time of high honesty and high dark humor.

[Caller]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

And that y' all will take a pen and mark off the things that you cannot control. You're not going to make these things go away, but what you're going to do by being intentional about putting a time limit on it by writing it down and by going through these together and saying, can we control that? Can we control that? What you're going to do to your nervous system is remind it, I'm driving.

[Caller]

Yeah.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

And I can't see that far ahead of me, so we're going to slow down, but I'm driving. And we are gonna turn up the 80s like hair, metals, and sing our guts out until otherwise. Right?

[Caller]

Yeah.

[Caller 2 / Wife / Mother]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

And so when you bind it and seven, that's a total arbitrary thing. It can be 15 minutes. It can be 30 minutes. There might be days when she needs.

[Caller]

I like that.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Less doom Castle. And more just. I need to. I need you to hold me.

[Caller 2 / Wife / Mother]

Yeah.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

And so where I'd love you to spend the rest of your energy is how can I love you this week?

[Caller 3 / Wife / Mother]

Yeah.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

And you are going to get a ringside seat into how true change in marriage happens.

[Caller]

Yeah.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

It doesn't happen with these huge declarations. It happens minute by minute. And you're forced into this. But y' all are going to develop a language of what do you. How can I love you right now?

[Caller]

Yeah.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

And she might say, I can't be touched. I'm in so much pain. And y' all will already talked about. What are the three or four things she wants you to do or not do when she's hurting?

[Caller]

Yeah.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

And then you're gonna have to wrestle with your emotional reactivity, your grief, your frustration, your feeling of powerlessness. Right.

[Caller]

Yeah.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

And that's all good. None of it's fun. It's all. I mean, actually, it's all awful. But it's. It's. It's. It's a thing you can control. You can't control her pain. You can. It's. Otherwise, you just hover over the shadow of powerlessness. Right.

[Caller]

I know.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

And that comes out in anger and rage and frustration. I'm gonna own it, man. I'm gonna Own it. I'm gonna bind it. I'm gonna own it. And I'm gonna do what I can in these moments when I feel powerless. Okay, cool. I can go for a walk.

[Caller]

Yeah.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

I can actually walk out the door when she's in this much pain, because this is what she asked me to do when she wasn't in pain.

[Caller]

I have had such a hard time.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

I know.

[Caller]

We spent, like, five days in the hospital overnight and care she got. I feel like this is the strongest woman I've ever met. Dr. John. If you met her, man, you would. I have such a hard time going past, like, a month, you know? And I think I'm trying to just be on hope. And we can do everything. I'm going to go, you know, all gas, no brakes on appointments, and we're going to see this, we're going to see that.

[Caller 2 / Wife / Mother]

But.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

I know, but hold on, hold on.

[Caller]

Yeah.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

You're. You're in health care. She's not.

[Caller 2 / Wife / Mother]

Right.

[Caller]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Okay. This is gonna be hard to hear. She's gotta drive.

[Caller]

Yeah.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

And so if she doesn't want to go on these on 50 different appointments.

[Caller]

Yeah.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Then she gets to choose that.

[Caller 2 / Wife / Mother]

Yeah.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Because the worst thing you can do for somebody with an autoimmune disorder is to drag them around.

[Caller 3 / Wife / Mother]

Right.

[Caller]

Right. Yeah, I know.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

So part of reconnecting here is you saying, here's what I would love. I would love to do all this stuff. I'm putting it on the table because I love you and I'm honest.

[Caller]

Yeah.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

And I'm also surrendering to. This is your body, this is your pain.

[Caller]

Yeah.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

And I will be ride or die, however you want to navigate this.

[Caller]

Ever, every day, man. I take this from her 100 times out of 100. It's. It's tough to not.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

I know.

[Caller]

It's tough to not be able to. You know, I see stories of people not touching their wife's face for a decade on one side. Right. And, like, I want to think everything's going to be great when X, Y and Z happens. And I feel like the dam is going to break when the summer comes and it's not better the winter or.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Okay. But here's the thing.

[Caller]

Unknown feels so tough. Yeah.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

There's a famous Amos Tversky quote. He's a famous psychologist.

[Caller]

Yeah.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

And essentially the quote is, and I'll mess it up here. But pessimism is stupid. It's a waste of time. Because if what you're worried about comes true, you've experienced it twice. And so what I would challenge you to do is to not cash out on living and loving and touching her face every moment possible now.

[Caller]

Yeah.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

For the fear it might go away later, because when it goes away later, there will be no hedge against how much that hurts. It's just going to hurt.

[Caller]

And so grieve what's not lost.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

That's right.

[Caller 2 / Wife / Mother]

Yeah.

[Caller]

That's tough.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

So let's live into what we got. And when it cross, if. If the dam breaks, we're going to deal with the dam then. And we're going to take care of our finances. We're going to take care of our living arrangements. We're going to live a life that we can afford this finance. Like.

[Caller]

Yeah.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Like, we. I'm going to take care of all the variables I can. Right.

[Caller 2 / Wife / Mother]

Yeah.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

So, like, if I live on a house that's underneath the dam, I'm going to have an escape route.

[Caller]

Right.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

And I'm going to. I'm going to weed eat that thing so that if I ever need it, I'm going to use it. And then I'm going about my life. I'm going to do a lot of fishing.

[Caller]

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

And when the storm clouds gather and they tell me it's going to be a big one, I'm probably gonna head up that escape path.

[Caller]

Yeah.

[Caller 2 / Wife / Mother]

Right.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

But I'm not just gonna go out on my front porch every day and stare at the dam and say, don't. Please don't break. Please don't, Blake. Please don't break. Right.

[Caller]

Right.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Because I'm gonna miss out on all of the life that I've got in front of me.

[Caller]

Yeah.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

The hardest thing you can do here is surrender.

[Caller 2 / Wife / Mother]

Yeah.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

But loosening your grip on this thing will let you open your hands for hugs. High fives. Touching her face, combing her hair.

[Caller]

Yeah.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Right. All the good stuff. The good stuff.

[Caller]

Yeah. And that's. That's. Yeah. We were trying to navigate this past few days of, like, just telling each other we miss each other. We've been with each other 247 when we're not. I'm not at work or she's not an appointment, but just like getting out of do mode and just getting back into. To sit in the mode. And it's just really tough when the walls feel like they're closing and around you.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Of course. Yeah. And.

[Caller 3 / Wife / Mother]

And, and.

[Caller]

But no, I, I like in your

[Dr. John DeLoney]

seven minutes of hell, give yourself seven minutes of heaven on the other side.

[Caller 2 / Wife / Mother]

Yeah.

[Caller]

Yeah.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

I need to look at you in the eye and say five things I love about you.

[Caller]

Yeah.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

And because y' all are. Y' all are funny people like me and my wife. I'm gonna tell you four things. You're really driving me crazy lately.

[Caller]

Yeah.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Right. And that keeps those simmering frustrations and resentments from taking over.

[Caller]

Yeah.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Because they'll burn from the. Right, they'll burn from, from underneath the leaf pile. And then all of a sudden it's an inferno. And you didn't realize there was. There was ash down there. And so I'm going to tell you, I think you're kind of, kind of ridiculous for not. You just kind of just quit making dinner. Right. And y' all can both laugh about that as she's on an IV drip, whatever. And then she can be like, well, I actually think you're letting yourself go a little bit. I think y. And it becomes a. We're still one. We're still speaking our language.

[Caller]

Right.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

And that's not for every couple, by the way. Right. But if that's who y' all are, then let's not lose our humanity.

[Caller]

Yeah.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Here's a. Here, here's the, the best way I can pass it along. My oldest, best friend on the planet, a guy I've known for 47 years, got in a life altering car wreck the week after he graduated college and he's been paralyzed ever since. Massive traumatic brain injury. And I remember me and one of our other best friends and his little brother, who's also a close friend. We were in a, it was a Denny's or an IHOP or something like that in the middle of the night and we actually had the conversation. Hey, we all ruthless on each other. We can't keep doing that.

[Caller]

Yeah.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

And I'm confident it was his brother that said, no chance. We're not going to start treating him differently now. He's been one of our brothers. He'll always be one of our brothers.

[Caller 2 / Wife / Mother]

Right.

[Caller]

Yeah.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

And so, but we had the humanity conversation.

[Caller]

Yeah.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

We're going to be who we were. Right?

[Caller]

Yeah.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

And so I have taken him to the bathroom in public things. I, I spoke at his dad's funeral. And you can better believe I made fun of him the whole time.

[Caller]

Yeah.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Right. Because he's, that's, that's our, that's our language.

[Caller]

Right.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Always has been. That let. That let him know this guy's a doing the thing and this guy still loves me for me.

[Caller]

Yeah. But we have a high tolerance for jokes that don't leave the house.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

That's. Man, that's perfect. Perfect. And, and, and it's not losing that under this dark, dark cloud of grief, this fear of what may come, you know, what may come, nobody knows. Nobody knows. And so we're going to live big time now. We're going to hedge every bet we can and we're going to retain our humanity in the middle of the unknown. And that's scary and it's hard and it's day by day, minute by minute, week by week. And but we can bind this stuff up. And that means you're carrying a spiral notebook with you. And so when you have these feelings, I'm not going to text her. I'm not going to come home every night and be like, oh, what if this happens? I'm going to write it down. O and Thursday night, when we have seven minutes of hell and seven minutes of heaven, here's my list. What's your list? Right. And we're going to put them all on the table, cross off the ones we can't do anything about, and then we're going to go through the I love you. I need you to hear me say that right now. And then we'll have a funny way to come out of that thing and go be human again. So, man, you're a beautiful guy, dude, and it's an honor to get to talk to you. And by the way, you have a picture of her as this really strong, powerful, powerful woman. You may need to grieve that that picture has changed that now she is a strong woman who's also in the fight of her life. And trying to constantly compare who she is now to who she was last week, last month, last year is a disservice, A, to who she is now, but B, it's exhausting for you. And so let's celebrate who she was, let's grieve what's happened to her, and then let's celebrate who she's becoming amidst all of this stuff and who you're becoming, too. Thanks for calling, my brother. When we come back, a woman asks how to navigate marriage when her husband avoids responsibility but says he wants to stay married. All right, I'm excited to tell you about a brand new sponsor of the Dr. John DeLoney Show, Capstone Wellness. I've spent the vast majority of my career working with teenagers and young adults and their families. I know from personal experience that finding help and care for teenagers and young adults can be a nightmare, especially when your teenager or young adults need significant care. If you're a parent and your teenage or young adult son is struggling with trauma, addiction, mental health challenges or destructive behaviors and you're running out of options. I want you to consider residential treatment care. Capstone Treatment center is a residential treatment program for young men. In this live in therapeutic setting, your son can fully step away from the chaos of the world for a few months or more and into a structured environment with trained licensed clinicians. This is daily intensive work that has the power to transform your child's life and your family's life. And listen, I know folks at Capstone, it is faith based but they care for all types of people in all walks of life. If somebody close to me had a son who needed this level of care, or if my son needed this level of help, Capstone would be my first call. Residential treatment is a very serious investment in time, energy and in money because this type of care is completely different. Financial aid and scholarships are available. Go to capstonewellness.com Deloney to learn more. That's capstonewellness.com Slony everyone I'm talking to is so exhausted. We're all fried and somehow we've all just decided this is normal. It's not normal to not be rested and not sleep. You can't out grind bad sleep just like you can't outrun a bad diet. Your body is always paying attention and when you're not sleeping well, everything is harder. Because deep sleep, that's where your brain resets. It's the control alt delete every night so you can show up in the morning ready to rock and roll. And over time, it's what keeps your body healthy in your mind clear. And if your sleep is off, everything is off. That's why I love Helix mattresses. My whole family sleeps on Helix mattress because I believe that sleep is important for all of us. Helix does not just build one mattress for everybody. This one size fits all nonsense. Get online and take their sleep quiz. It takes like two minutes and they're going to match you with just the right mattress for the way you sleep. There's no guesswork here. Getting the right mattress can be the beginning of great sleep. And great sleep can change everything. Go to helixsleep.com deloney and get 27% off site wide during their Memorial Day sale. That's 27% off at helixsleep.com deloney, and this 27% off discount is only for my go check it out with Helix. Better sleep starts right now. Let's go to Sacramento, California and talk to Louise. Hey Louise, what's up?

[Caller 3 / Wife / Mother]

Sorry, I'm a little nervous.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Oh, you're good. You're good you're all good.

[Caller 3 / Wife / Mother]

So I am dealing with some issues with my husband loving me and wanting to be married, but also, like, kind of not necessarily wanting the responsibility of being a husband.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Tell me more about that.

[Caller 3 / Wife / Mother]

So the majority of the time, I would say our marriage is pretty good.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

What does that mean? What is pretty good?

[Caller 3 / Wife / Mother]

We have fun together. We do life side by side. Well, together without, like, much arguments. I mean, of course, there's little tips here and there, but the majority of the time it doesn't turn into anything big when there is, like a small issue.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Okay.

[Caller 3 / Wife / Mother]

But every once in a while, most of the time, I believe this is surrounded by times when my husband is already stressed because of probably work. But, you know, sometimes I do bring up like, hey, this has been happening and I'm not really liking it. Could it change? And that's kind of when he's like, well, you're asking me for too much.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

What are some things you're asking for?

[Caller 3 / Wife / Mother]

Well, like, one example is that I'm always looking forward to seeing him every day at the end of work. Yeah. And there's some days where he comes home and he says hi to me, but it's not like lovingly and I don't know, just not necessarily ignoring me, but it kind of feels like he's ignoring me.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Okay. Do you stay at home with, like. Are you a stay at home mom?

[Caller 3 / Wife / Mother]

We don't have any kids.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Okay, so you work full time too?

[Caller 2 / Wife / Mother]

Yes.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Okay. Does he have a picture? Have you been clear with him on what feeling loving looks like?

[Caller 3 / Wife / Mother]

You know, now that I think about it, I don't know if I've been extremely clear about what exactly it looks like, but I have.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Okay, so here's a loop. I see so many couples get in, including me and my wife. Okay. You have a long, hard day at work. So does he and y' all both come home with various things on your mind? Right. And this sounds dramatic the way I'm saying it. I know that. But also in your body, you're frustrated, you're tired, you're exhausted, whatever.

[Caller 3 / Wife / Mother]

Yeah.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

And you come home hoping he will make you feel a certain way.

[Caller 3 / Wife / Mother]

Right.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

And what that's doing is that's putting your internal state on an external situation. And so if you tell me that he's abusive, if he never shows up for you, if he dismisses you, that's a different diff. Totally different story, Totally different call.

[Caller 2 / Wife / Mother]

Yeah.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

But if you tell me, no, no. I know this guy loves me, but I'm expecting him to make me feel A certain way when I walk in the door and I've told him, please, when you walk in, say hi to me.

[Caller 2 / Wife / Mother]

Yeah.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

And he walks in and says hi, and you don't feel a certain way. The natural bent is to blame. You didn't do this. Right. The question I would pose to you is what is it inside of you that you are either unable, unwilling, don't know how to self. Soothe?

[Caller 3 / Wife / Mother]

I'm not sure.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

What do you, what do you feel?

[Caller 3 / Wife / Mother]

Right.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Feel. Feeling is a, is a. It's an alarm system. Right. Notification system. It's not truth. What is your body wanting to feel when he walks in?

[Caller 3 / Wife / Mother]

Cared for.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

And what is cared for? Feel like,

[Caller 3 / Wife / Mother]

I. I'm not quite sure how to explain it more.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Okay, well. And, and I want you to use that as, as a guide because often when we want other people to make us feel a certain way, it becomes a moving finish line for them.

[Caller 3 / Wife / Mother]

Okay.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

What are the fears? What are you, what are you worried about? Do you think he's gonna leave?

[Caller 3 / Wife / Mother]

I think maybe my brain goes there.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Tell me about that.

[Caller 2 / Wife / Mother]

But

[Caller 3 / Wife / Mother]

I don't know.

[Caller 2 / Wife / Mother]

Why?

[Caller 3 / Wife / Mother]

Because he's never like threatened. Well, I wouldn't say he's threatened it. I think he's, he's mentioned things in the past that, like, he doesn't think he could stay in a relationship if like this certain thing was not there. And it has to do with, you know, sexual intimacy.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Okay.

[Caller 3 / Wife / Mother]

And I'm. I sometimes have difficulty, like fulfilling that for him.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Okay.

[Caller 3 / Wife / Mother]

So I think maybe that's kind of why the fear is there.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Tell me about difficulty.

[Caller 3 / Wife / Mother]

So in the past he's brought up the fact that the frequency is not as much as he would like.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Okay.

[Caller 3 / Wife / Mother]

But I don't want to make excuses, but I do work a full time job and I also have a connective tissue disorder that comes with fatigue. So some days work is really all I have energy for. But I've tried to make some changes in my life, like how I spend what energy I do have to make sure that I am prioritizing our marriage in that way.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Okay.

[Caller 3 / Wife / Mother]

And I'm not, you know, great at. At it necessarily, but I try. But then like after that kind of

[Caller 2 / Wife / Mother]

got better,

[Caller 3 / Wife / Mother]

the next complaint was that the quality of it wasn't what he wanted. And you know that it feels like a lot of pressure on me.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Well, it's an extreme amount of pressure. He's given you a threshold, right?

[Caller 3 / Wife / Mother]

And like I've, you know, expressed these things to him and, and in the last, like few months, he's told Me that he's just kind of trying to come to the reality of what it is instead of what, like, his ideal was.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

And that's hard to hear because you want to be his ideal, huh?

[Caller 3 / Wife / Mother]

Yeah, I do.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Yeah. My guess is that he's doing the same thing that you're doing on the other side of this coin, which is I. Of course he likes sex and he likes being with you and all that. That's a given. But he feels like he needs to feel a certain way.

[Caller 2 / Wife / Mother]

Right.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

And if he doesn't feel a certain way, then he's gonna do X, Y or Z. And instead of taking ownership of. Of course I wanna be with my wife. Of course I do. Of course I wanna be with that woman right there. That's why I married her. And I made up a story in my head about what this was gonna look like and more importantly, how I was gonna feel.

[Caller 3 / Wife / Mother]

Right.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

And I thought it was a frequency issue. Not that now I think it's a quality issue.

[Caller 3 / Wife / Mother]

Yeah.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Not that. So now it's a. Well, I just gotta grieve it and make. And. And all of that is saying I'm not willing to deal with my sense of not feeling alive in my own skin. I'm not willing to deal with what is it about me that shows up here that's not well and whole. So that I can see this woman in front of me who loves me, see this woman, know this woman in front of me, and know she's going through health issues, stress issues, all these other things. And I'm seeing how hard she's working for me.

[Caller 2 / Wife / Mother]

Right.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

And I'm going to celebrate the crap out of her, which has a strange reciprocal effect of you feeling like you've got more margin, more peace, which allows you to have more energy too.

[Caller 2 / Wife / Mother]

Right?

[Caller 3 / Wife / Mother]

Right.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Less stress. Less. Less like it.

[Caller 2 / Wife / Mother]

It.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

It just gets in this really circular, weird dance.

[Caller 3 / Wife / Mother]

Yeah.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Right. And so anytime somebody comes to me with. I'm going to give you like a. A tiered response here. Okay.

[Caller 3 / Wife / Mother]

Okay.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

You've got some really big fears in your chest. Those have to come out on the table because anything else is just going to be you playing whack a mole with feelings and with stories. And you're going to start looking at everything he does to backfill the story you've already made up, which is he's probably going to leave. Or maybe. Maybe even worse, he's going to stay. He's going to stay and be miserable and it's going to be my fault because he told me so.

[Caller 2 / Wife / Mother]

Right.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Right. So I want to set up a meeting with y'. All. Y' all two set up a meeting. And you're going to have to go first.

[Caller 3 / Wife / Mother]

Okay.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

And say, I have a couple of huge fears based on what you've told me in the past, and I need to put these on the table.

[Caller 3 / Wife / Mother]

I, I believe I've already told him that.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Okay. What, how did it go?

[Caller 3 / Wife / Mother]

I don't, I don't really remember his response. I think most of the time he, When I do say that, like I'm scared that he's going to leave me, he does say, like, I'm not leaving you, like, I love you. And it's not to that point. Right. But I don't know why the fear is still there.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

I wouldn't dismiss it because he might not leave you in body, but he might leave you in spirit.

[Caller 2 / Wife / Mother]

Right.

[Caller 3 / Wife / Mother]

And that's, I think that's why when he pulls away the affection, it feels like he's doing it in spirit.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Right. But the story you've made up in your mind is he's doing this on purpose. And so I want to give him an.

[Caller 3 / Wife / Mother]

I tried to be, you know, compassionate about the fact that he is stressed

[Caller 2 / Wife / Mother]

about work and stuff, but at the

[Caller 3 / Wife / Mother]

same time, like, I can only be neglected for so long.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Well, and I want to hear those. Like you've used the words, he avoids responsibility. You've said he's neglecting you. Now those are big, big things and I want you to be honest. Is that what's happening? Do you feel neglected

[Caller 3 / Wife / Mother]

at times? Yes.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Okay. So I want you to be specific with what you're asking of him and I want you to trying to. It creates a self fulfilling prophecy.

[Caller 3 / Wife / Mother]

Right.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Here's what I mean. Both of you are creating self fulfilling prophecies in your house in real time. You have this sense that he's going to leave based on stuff he said before. And probably the things he said touched a real nerve with your life experience. Fair. Maybe you got left as a kid. Maybe your folks left either physically or in spirit, emotionally. Maybe a previous boyfriend left you. Right. You've, you've been down this road before. So your body knows what this feels like. And so the story you tell yourself is, I can only be okay if I know for certain he's not going to leave. But you have already convinced yourself you're worth leaving because you don't think you have enough sex. You don't think you do it. Right. And so if he says I'm not leaving, your body registers that as a lie. Because you don't believe it. And so then what do you do? You ask more. Are you sure you're not leaving? Are you sure not leaving?

[Caller 2 / Wife / Mother]

Yeah.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

And he gets further and further away, and at the same time, he's convinced himself, she doesn't do this enough. She doesn't do this in the right way. She doesn't make me feel right. And that sense pushes you further away.

[Caller 3 / Wife / Mother]

Right.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

And so this is a. A classic case of somebody has to turn the music on and stop. Like, turn the music off and turn on the lights and just say, hey, let's stop the. Stop this dance.

[Caller 2 / Wife / Mother]

Yeah.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Because we're actually creating the thing that both of us are scared of.

[Caller 2 / Wife / Mother]

Right?

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Right. And this is where it gets very unhollywood, very fast. But it's being as specific as possible.

[Caller 3 / Wife / Mother]

Right. And I. I've tried to be in. I recently had a conversation with him about, like. Because he told me that. That he's burnt out with work and with a relationship, I guess.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Okay.

[Caller 3 / Wife / Mother]

So I tried to, you know, tell him that, like, I think you're putting an effort in areas in our marriage where, like, I appreciate it, but it doesn't help me to feel the love the way that I prefer to. So maybe you could switch the effort you're putting in. In this way in a different way so that I actually feel it more. I almost impact me more.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

I almost know that. I can almost guarantee. I know that his response. But what did he. How did he respond?

[Caller 3 / Wife / Mother]

He was okay with that.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Okay. I want to change the way you say that. Okay.

[Caller 3 / Wife / Mother]

Okay.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

I want you to. Instead of setting up a challenge meeting because you've done that, I want you to set up an invitation meeting. Okay.

[Caller 3 / Wife / Mother]

Okay.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Here's what I mean, honey. I love you so much. I want to give you four really clear ways that you can love me in this particular season. We're in. I'm stressed. You're stressed. We're both carrying a ton of mental load. We're both got. We're up in our heads a lot. I want to give you a path for me, and I would love a path for you.

[Caller 3 / Wife / Mother]

Yeah.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Right. And you can look at him and say, you know how much I'm working on the. The, like, my health.

[Caller 2 / Wife / Mother]

Right.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Right. You know this.

[Caller 3 / Wife / Mother]

Yeah.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

What are some things outside of the bedroom I can do to love you? Well.

[Caller 2 / Wife / Mother]

Yeah.

[Caller 3 / Wife / Mother]

Okay.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

And what. What we're doing that's different than you are doing this wrong. You're doing this wrong. You should do it. Like, this one is, can I give you a path? It's an I statement. And then you say, hey, how can I love you? But I think you're both chasing a similar. A similar hor crutch, if you will. Is that what it's called? Not a hor crutch. What's the. What's the little ball with the. With the wings on it that flies around in Harry Potter?

[Caller 3 / Wife / Mother]

I've never seen Harry Potter.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Okay, let me ask one of my nerd friends. What's. What's the little ball with the. With the. With the Golden Snitch? The Golden Snitch. Y' all are both chasing this thing, and it's very hard to catch. And the thing y' all are trying to catch is if they would jest, I would feel right. And so what I want you to begin to ask yourself is, what must be true for me to feel loved in this home? What must I do to feel okay in my own skin? And a path forward for you is taking some time to truly write down and celebrate yourself. And I know if you grew up in a faith community, they say never do that. I know our culture says that's just narcissistic. I want you to be honest about the last three or four years. What have you done to become a healthier, more. Well, more whole version of yourself?

[Caller 3 / Wife / Mother]

Okay.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Probably a lot, huh?

[Caller 3 / Wife / Mother]

Yeah.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Okay. Think of it this way. Think of it as y' all two are hugging in the kitchen. But if he let go of you, you wouldn't fall over.

[Caller 3 / Wife / Mother]

Okay.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Can I stand on my own two feet inside my own skin? That doesn't mean you're not going to be sad. That doesn't mean you're not gonna be heartbroken. That doesn't mean you're not going to grieve it. If he says, I'm not doing that.

[Caller 2 / Wife / Mother]

That.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Of course you are. All those things are real. Yeah, but it's you saying, I'm okay with who I am. And just because I have less of a spontaneous libido than he has, just because I have chronic pain doesn't mean I'm not worth being married to. I am. I guess my meta message here is this. At the end of the day, you can only control you. You can only control how well and whole you are. Before you step on that field, that team sport that is being married, and say, we are going to try to win this thing together, what do you need to do so that you walk in feeling whole, on your own two feet, standing up so that you can give yourself over to this marriage? That's a lot. All right. We come back, a woman asks how to help her son develop healthy relationships when his father doesn't model them. Oh, man. I recently had some people come stay at my house for a weekend. And we were all sitting on the couch hanging out and one of my friends called out, dude, I'm sitting under a Cozy Earth blanket and you're wearing Cozy Earth socks. Is everything Cozy Earth in your house? And I said, yes, it is. My house is loaded with Cozy Earth gear. Sheets, pajamas, blankets, towels, socks. We got it all. One of my favorite cozier things is their Cozy Earth comforter. It's humongous, it's big. But I don't know how they did this. They must have built it at Hogwarts. It's not hot or heavy. It's like sleeping under a cloud. And it helps regulate temperature. So I stay comfortable throughout the night. And I got these Cozy Earth Essential Socks. They rule. I've never really been a sock guy. These are my socks. Cozy Earth Essential Socks come in four links and they're all incredibly comfortable. And don't forget, Cozy earth offers a 100 night sleep trial on all bedding and a 10 year warranty on everything else. So there's no risk in filling your house with Cozy Earth gear. Try Cozy Earth for yourself and for your family. Go to cozyearth.com DeLoney and use code DeLoney and you'll save up to 20% off your entire order. That's cozyearth.com DeLONEY use code DeLoney. Hey, listen, if you get a post purchase survey, tell Cozy Earth that you heard about their amazing gear right here on the Dr. John DeLoney Show. You're going to love Cozy Earth taking over your home just like they've taken over mine. All right, Sacramento, California, let's talk to Mother Teresa. What's up, Theresa?

[Caller 2 / Wife / Mother]

Hi.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

How are we doing?

[Caller 2 / Wife / Mother]

I'm doing fine. I mean, life is beautiful, Life is hard. It's a mixed bag. You know,

[Dr. John DeLoney]

I'm talking to Pollyanna. It's good to talk to you. So what's going on?

[Caller 2 / Wife / Mother]

Okay, so we are a family of four and my son is 10 and he has a younger sister. And he is amazing. He is academically advanced. He is very kind, very sweet. He's a fantastic big brother. But he is struggling emotionally and he's struggling to find his place and his worth. And I think that has a lot to do with the relationship he has with my husband, his father. And I mean, just to start, he, you know, my husband's not a social guy, so he doesn't have any male friends. So he doesn't see, like the model of male friendship. He also doesn't, you know, play sports with him or video games or go out in the backyard and build stuff. And my son is very, like, eager for his attention and his love and tries to please him and even fawns over him a bit, which really just kind of rubs him the wrong way. And he's just sort of stopped kind of maturing emotionally. I think my son has, because he's looking for that responsibility to be given to him, for trust to be given him to him, for him to sort of be taken under his father's wing and shown things. And it's just, I see it really affecting him because about 95% of their relationship is my husband saying stuff like, knock it off. What are you touching? Stop doing this. Who left the light on? You know, stuff like that. That's almost not 100%. I don't want to exaggerate, but that's a lot of their interaction. And I just, it's a lot of scoffing, you know, at him. And he doesn't yell. He's not like, mean otherwise. He's just sort of like low level disapproval all the time. And I just really see it affect him and I'm not sure what to do about it.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

I don't normally say this, but your husband sucks.

[Caller 2 / Wife / Mother]

Oh, no, he doesn't.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

I, I, and I would tell him that if he called me. Oh, and here's why. You're right about all the responsibilities, all the things boys need from their dads. You're right. But the thing that is destroying your son from the inside out is this nagging, neverending question. And by the way, he'll chase this question for the rest of his life.

[Caller 3 / Wife / Mother]

Yeah.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

What was so bad about me?

[Caller 3 / Wife / Mother]

Yeah.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

That that guy wouldn't look up from his phone. That that guy wouldn't come outside with me. That that guy wouldn't play with me. That 98 of what he said was criticism. What was so bad about me? And here's the thing. It wasn't until I was doing an internship with a pretty extraordinary psychologist who, when his famous line to me that really resonated and stuck with me forever. He looked at me once after we were working with some traumatized kids, and he said, hey, straight A's can be a trauma response too.

[Caller 2 / Wife / Mother]

Yeah, Right.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Some kids will sing and dance and do whatever they have to do to get their parents to say, I see you.

[Caller 2 / Wife / Mother]

Right.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

And so, yeah, I, I guess I,

[Caller 2 / Wife / Mother]

I'm gonna try to rehabilitate him now a little bit, because I don't.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

You're gonna have a hard task because.

[Caller 3 / Wife / Mother]

Okay.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Because here's the thing. Your son is the job.

[Caller 2 / Wife / Mother]

Yes, I. I said those exact same as. This is the work. This is the hardest thing that we're supposed to do.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Well, hold on.

[Caller 2 / Wife / Mother]

Yeah.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

I guarantee this, and I'm happy to be wrong, but I. Almost positive I'm not. He does the same thing to you.

[Caller 3 / Wife / Mother]

Does he do the same.

[Caller 2 / Wife / Mother]

I think my husband is really in a rut, to be fair. I mean, he's present. He's always present. He's always doing the hard things. He's just not doing them happily, I think I should say. And a lot of it is. I feel like he doesn't know how to take him outside and play with him because the relationship is already kind of fractured. So when he says, okay, I say, hey, go play soccer or something, you know? Go, go. I'll do whatever we got to do to get you to this time. Like, it just doesn't go well because they don't have a foundation of, like.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

No, but that's how you build the foundation. You go do the stuff.

[Caller 2 / Wife / Mother]

Yeah, yeah.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

You go do those things. And you. You very, like, astutely worked around that. But he might be in a rut, and he might have mental and emotional challenges he's working through. Maybe totally cool.

[Caller 3 / Wife / Mother]

Right.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

But the work is. I'm going to go outside, I'm going to close my laptop. I'm going to put my phone down. I'm going to go do the next awkward right things for my wife. Because the greatest gift I can give my kids is to love their mother recklessly. And then I am going to give myself over to the work that is learning how to do things I don't know how to do, doing things I don't like doing, but showing or. It sounds like he doesn't do anything else, but I'm gonna bring my son along with me on things that I like to do.

[Caller 2 / Wife / Mother]

Yeah, it's more that he's not a lazy man. He's always, like, busy with something. But, like, he'll choose to go do the grocery shopping kind of instead of. Well, bring your son with you, I guess. Yeah. Make him part of your. Like, make him your sidekick.

[Caller 3 / Wife / Mother]

That's what I've told.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

I know, but listen, if he does all the right things, but he's doing them to avoid being with y', all, those aren't the right things.

[Caller 3 / Wife / Mother]

Yeah.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

I'll get the grocery shopping. I'll go to this, I'll go to this. I'll go to this. That, that's just, that's going around the issue. And the issue is I got a wife here that's like, hey, husband, I miss you. Hey, dad, do you like me? What's so bad about me?

[Caller 2 / Wife / Mother]

He's asked him that question. Does he like me? He's asked me that.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

God, I gotta tell you, man, that breaks my heart. And I also have to just be super honest with you. I've dealt with teenagers and young adults my entire career and that's a ghost that will haunt them forever.

[Caller 2 / Wife / Mother]

Yeah.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

What was so bad about me?

[Caller 3 / Wife / Mother]

Yeah,

[Caller 2 / Wife / Mother]

it doesn't sound like that big a deal, but it's pretty rough. And it's constantly like, because he's not a yeller, he's not violent in any way. He's just, you know, he's very, he's very gentle man. Actually. He's just very good at disapproving in, in a low volume, basically. And can I tell you something?

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Can I tell you something that's, Yeah. I, I, in no way is what's happening in your home wor. If he was abusive. Okay, I don't want you to hear me say that, but if he was abusive, there will come a moment when your son will go, oh, he was the problem. The fact that he's quiet and seemingly doing all of the right things will further dig your son inside himself to mind for. Oh, it for sure is me.

[Caller 2 / Wife / Mother]

I think a big problem is my husband has a pretty big, I don't know how to say, ick reflex and so everything.

[Caller 3 / Wife / Mother]

So what?

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Do you know what I did today? I'm gonna tell you what I did today. I have a pet snake.

[Caller 2 / Wife / Mother]

Yeah.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

And I fed that snake a mouse and the mouse died. And you know what I did today? I took a dead mouse out of a snake cage and went and fed my son's snapping turt turtle.

[Caller 2 / Wife / Mother]

Huh. Over there. Yeah.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Here's the deal. I have a high ick factor too. I've got an OCD diagnosis. I am as close to a germaphobe as you're going to find.

[Caller 2 / Wife / Mother]

Yeah.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

And man, I love my boy.

[Caller 2 / Wife / Mother]

Yeah. We find a lot about habit breaking because, you know, he wants him to stop, you know, eating with his fingers or doing normal things that 10 year olds do. And I was like, we can't shame him, him into breaking a habit. We have to build like a strong relationship and remind him gently and just hope that he does it. But for him, he wants results.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

And I don't you can't get results out of. Out of relationship without coercion or demand. And coercion and demand might get you a result you want for a season. It might get a report card full of straight A's. It might get a kid who does everything right, and that's a kid who will walk out your door and never walk back in.

[Caller 2 / Wife / Mother]

Yeah. So I keep telling. Just to accept that it's going to happen. The habits are going to break. When they're going to break. Like, we just have to love him and remind him, am I doing the wrong thing? Because it's a big part of it is a big, like, oh, you left your shoes in the wrong place. You're touching your hands in a place I don't want you to touch them. You know, stuff like that happens a lot, and I can't. I can't talk him out of the idea that we have to do something to stop it. Like, there's nothing we can do to stop it other than remind him.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

I. I don't. I. This is colloquial, and so I don't have data behind this, but this is a good rule of thumb, seven to one, seven, positive. Connecting things to every criticism.

[Caller 3 / Wife / Mother]

Yeah.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

And by the way, criticism, nagging, complaining. That's never about the person who is your. Your criticizing or complaining or nagging. It's about you. You are the hero of that story. I don't want you to put your fingers in your mouth. And the kids like. Well, I do.

[Caller 2 / Wife / Mother]

Yeah, right. Right.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

In a relationship, when he. When he knows that there's nobody on the planet that loves me more than that guy does, then you can say, hey, like, I want you to become a man. Like, I want you to grow up as a man who is. Has got good manners.

[Caller 3 / Wife / Mother]

Yeah, right.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

And when you're with me out by the fire, when you're with me out on the hunting trip and you're me out on the fishing trip, we can eat with our hands all day long, but in the house, we're gonna use a napkin. We're gonna. We're gonna be polite people. We're gonna be people with manners. And then in a relationship, you can go, oh, sweet. I want to be just like that guy. Because that guy loves.

[Caller 3 / Wife / Mother]

Right?

[Caller 2 / Wife / Mother]

Yeah.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Not, I want to do what that guy says, so he hates me less.

[Caller 2 / Wife / Mother]

So I've talked to my husband every way I can about this. I've talked to him about coddling versus attending. I've talked to him about the Gottmans and their bids. I've Gone down the whole gamut trying to solve it. He's not going to change. What can I do? How do I make things just controlling my own behavior? Is there anything I can do? Because I can't be the dad, but if. If I'm. There's anything I can do, I'll do it.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Yeah. There's two important things. One is you're going to be tired, but for the sake of your kids, you're gonna have to fill more of that gap. I'm gonna go out and play soccer with them. I'm gonna go out and throw the ball. I'm gonna take him fishing, and you don't have time for that. It's frustrating. It's gonna surface more of your frustration with your husband because you do a great job of burying your yalls relationship issues. It's going to surface all that stuff up. But I'm going to choose to be present with my son. The second thing is, is you're going to have to put him in proximity of other good men. I'm gonna sign you up for leagues. I'm gonna sign you up with good coaches. I'm gonna put you around other guys that will look at you and say, I believe in you.

[Caller 2 / Wife / Mother]

That's harder than it sounds.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

It's real hard. Real, real hard. You know why? It shouldn't be that way.

[Caller 2 / Wife / Mother]

Yeah. And I put him in, like, boy scouts. It's all run by. By the moms.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

I am going to intentionally.

[Caller 2 / Wife / Mother]

Every teacher is a female. He's just surrounded by females everywhere. Scouts.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

That's right. And I'm going to find places.

[Caller 2 / Wife / Mother]

Okay.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Because. Because, yes. The skills he's going to learn in boy scouts are great. What he needs is his nervous system regulated by a man that looks at him and says, I care about you.

[Caller 2 / Wife / Mother]

Yeah. And I know that, like, my nervous system is on edge when they're just talking. And it's. Mine is on edge. And my son is way more sensitive. He's a very sensitive kid. So they're kind of like oil and water, him and my husband. And, like, if my nervous system is just like, like, on fire when they're next to, like, around each other, interacting, like, I know his is, like, a thousand times worse.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Yeah. It's his dad.

[Caller 3 / Wife / Mother]

Yeah.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

And this is going to be hard, but you got to avoid talking bad about dad, okay. Because he knows half of him is his father. So if you're like, well, your dad's lazy. Your dad just doesn't seem to care, then he's going to internalize that, too.

[Caller 2 / Wife / Mother]

I Will say things like, you know, nobody's perfect. Look at these other ways he loves you.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

You know, here's why. If you do that, what it does is he's having this experience. His question inside of his chest, why doesn't that guy like me? And you're like, he does. Look at all this stuff.

[Caller 2 / Wife / Mother]

Not affirming him. Yeah.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

You're gonna make him feel. You're gonna make him feel crazy for the feelings he has.

[Caller 2 / Wife / Mother]

Right, right, right, right.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

I will sit with him and say, I wish dad would go play soccer with you, too. Dad's going through a hard season right now. It's not about you. I want to play soccer with you. You're my favorite soccer player. And let's go. Right.

[Caller 2 / Wife / Mother]

Okay.

[Caller 3 / Wife / Mother]

All right.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Dad's really. Dad's really struggling right now.

[Caller 3 / Wife / Mother]

Yeah.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

And he does not do a good job of telling you that he loves you. I need you to know he does love you. And I love you. We're going fishing. This is. This is his son, man.

[Caller 2 / Wife / Mother]

Yeah. It's the number one job.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

The number one job is you.

[Caller 2 / Wife / Mother]

That's true.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Loving you. Really, really. Well, the number two job.

[Caller 2 / Wife / Mother]

Better, too. So I. I could. I could up my game. I'm so focused on the kids, and the parents have to be like the primary thing.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

And so maybe sitting down with him, an act of just incredible generosity and compassion, might be sitting down with your husband and saying, hey, I feel the story I'm making up is you're not doing well. And that makes me feel powerless. I would love three or four things that I could do on a regular basis to show you how much I love you and care about you.

[Caller 3 / Wife / Mother]

Okay.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

And I've got three or four things I'd love to offer you if you want to hear them. He sounds like a guy that doesn't really care what you think or feel, but maybe you could have them very specific things.

[Caller 2 / Wife / Mother]

I think he cared, but I've over communicated this so much to this point that I. As soon as, like, the conversation starts, like, he shuts down, you know, and.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

And maybe lead with, I've beat you up with science and books and authors, and I'm sorry.

[Caller 2 / Wife / Mother]

I probably have. Yes.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

I would. I would commit that I would put that on the table.

[Caller 3 / Wife / Mother]

Yeah.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

I've tried to connect with your head and I've overdone it and I'm sorry. Now I'm going to connect with your heart. Here's how you can love me right now.

[Caller 3 / Wife / Mother]

Okay.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

And the story I'm making up about you is that you're not well, that you're not doing okay.

[Caller 2 / Wife / Mother]

Yeah. And he'll say that, he'll say that, you know, he's like every day is a grind for him. It feels that way to him. And that he doesn't have the emotional space or time to like have time with the kids or really build that relationship because he can't just jump in and have the best day ever because today he has time. It's really just, it has to be that time never goes well because they don't have that fundamental relationship.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

What does he not have time for? Like, what does he not have time from?

[Caller 3 / Wife / Mother]

I don't know, like he gets off

[Caller 2 / Wife / Mother]

work and immediately does something outside and the kids go with him sometimes, but he's not really interacting with them and, or he'll come in and he'll say I gotta go grocery shopping or you know, like there's a lot of stuff to do. There's always something broken. But I mean he's not really a fix it guy. But I don't know, I just feel like he feels sort of grind down,

[Dr. John DeLoney]

you know, it sounds like a guy who has lost meaning and purpose and who doesn't like himself.

[Caller 2 / Wife / Mother]

I don't think he thinks that deeply about himself. But yes, possibly folks who don't think

[Dr. John DeLoney]

deeply about themselves, it comes out as I'm always burnt out. I'm always this, I'm always this or

[Caller 2 / Wife / Mother]

he's always burnt out.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

If I just had, then it would all be okay. And there's no amount of time, money, whatever that makes you look in the mirror and finally feel like you're okay.

[Caller 2 / Wife / Mother]

Yeah, I don't feel, I've tried those seasons of like, okay, I'm just going to take care of everything there is

[Caller 3 / Wife / Mother]

to take care of.

[Caller 2 / Wife / Mother]

Not the issue after work. And it never helped.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

No. Yeah, I'm just going to leave it at that. There's nothing else I can add here that's going to be anything other than me speaking ill of somebody who's not here and that's. I just don't want to be like that. But man, dads, put down your phones, put down your awkwardness, put down your I don't know hows or I don't want to's and go be present with your kids. Delight in your kids. Find, constantly find the good. Constantly catch them doing awesome things. And if you can't, go see a professional because they hate part of the work. I am running a thousand miles an hour in a thousand different directions. And this morning when I got in my car, I was Tempted to just put on the craziest music I could put on to just fry my brain into some sort of energy. But I didn't. I went to my Hallow app and I put on some scripture, I put on some prayer, I put on some gentle music, and I showed up to work with peace. I don't just advertise for Hallow. I use it in my own life to help me be whole and well and show up as the person I want to be. Hallow is the number one Christian prayer meditation app in the world for a reason. And it's one of the most important things I do to start my day, especially when the world's in chaos. Anchoring myself in prayer helps me slow down and prioritize what matters before the world just takes everything else from me. Hallow gives me space to breathe, reflect, and pray and listen. It's guided, it's simple, and it meets you where you are to help you anchor your faith practice or even start a faith practice with daily reflections, scripture, music, special series, and most importantly, peace. There's no pressure here. It's just practice. You can try Halo for free for three months only through my link. Go to hallow.com DeLoney and sign up for free today. That's hallow.com DeLoney for three months for free. All right, we're back. Kelly, what you got?

[Caller 4]

All right, I have a question about the Together app.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Let it rip.

[Caller 4]

All right, so one thing we've been hearing is, like, why should I pay for an app that tells me to hug my spouse?

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Yep.

[Caller 4]

So why should people pay for that? What? Why do people need to be told what's the benefit whenever, like, I can hug my spouse for free.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

I think we've had several calls on the show today that articulate that perfectly, which is so much of our lives are led by what I feel. And I feel like I don't feel like I would feel this way if they would jest or I won't feel this way if they would stop. Like, and so having a daily reminder of a small thing I can do. I can take control of this thing and I can step forward. And regardless of how I feel, I can take the next right step. I can do a thing that will bring us closer together. And by the way, you're not just paying for hug your wife. Like, there's jillions of activities in this thing. It does start that way with very basic stuff. And what we found is most people are like, I didn't realize. I didn't realize. We don't stop and hug without our phones in our hands. I, I, I just, like, if you'd said, how many times do we hug? I would have been like, oh, like 100. It was more like two. And so people realize, oh, I missed this. And there's been a few who realize, oh, he won't hug me, or she won't put her phone down. And instantly out of the gate, you realize, we've got bigger challenges in our marriage than this app's going to help us with. We need to go talk to somebody now because it's, there's big stuff going on here. But the app starts slow, but it starts getting wilder and wilder as the more you use it and unlock next levels. What I don't want to do is just, and we were intentional about this. I don't just want to come out of the gate and throw the most complex plays at you like, like, you're like a NFL football player and you've never, you don't know what the basics, the blocking and tackling is. And so we're going to start from, from ground zero. And by the way, my wife and I use this thing, and it's awesome. And so, like, as sophisticated as us two nerds are, and as long as we've been trying to figure out how to do this thing right, still the daily reminder of send your wife a note right now and put it somewhere where she can find it. And I go, oh, gosh, I'm so. And I grab a piece of paper and I write her note and I put on her pillow. I still, like, it still matters, right? Because I would have thought about it and I wouldn't have done it. And so this thing is just a, it's just daily habits. And you'll. I'm now finding myself when I see a great picture somewhere or somebody text me a picture they took of me and my daughter out somewhere. I'll send that to her and be like, this picture or of my wife and my daughter. I'll, I'll send it to her. I'll say, this is why I think you're the best mom in the world. Like, it's, it's now it's not just happening in the app. I do the app daily exercise, but I also do three or four other things throughout the day because now it's starting to prime you. So anyway, you're not just paying for a hug your spouse app. Well, it's so much bigger than that.

[Caller 4]

One thing that makes me laugh about that question people asking it is, you know, why should we do that? Well, because clearly you're not doing it. So yes, you're right. Should you need an app that tells you to or an app that tells you to hug your spouse? No, but you're not. So.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Well, that's like, that's like how the questions for humans were found, which is like, oh, you don't know how to talk to your kids. And he was like, shut up, dude. Like, no, we shouldn't know. We shouldn't have this product. But we need it and that's okay. It is what it is. It's awesome. So there you go. Go get the Together app. If you are an Apple iPhone user, download it in the app store. And if you're an Android user, hey, good luck in your Dungeons and Dragons game this weekend. And B, good luck with your pet snakes. And C, we're coming for you.