Her First Boyfriend Died . . . I’m the New Guy

Summary

Episode Summary: "Her First Boyfriend Died . . . I’m the New Guy" | The Dr. John DeLoney Show

Release Date: January 3, 2025

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Introduction

In this deeply engaging episode of The Dr. John DeLoney Show, host Dr. John DeLoney tackles complex relationship and mental health challenges brought forth by listeners. The episode features heartfelt conversations with three callers—Michael, Anita, and Jenna—each navigating their unique struggles within their personal relationships. Dr. DeLoney offers thoughtful insights and practical advice, enriched with memorable quotes and compassionate guidance.

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1. Michael's Struggle with Insecurity and Comparison [00:05 - 09:43]

Caller Background: Michael, a 24-year-old in his first long-term relationship, reaches out seeking advice on handling feelings of inadequacy and comparison to his girlfriend's late boyfriend, who died three years prior.

Key Discussion Points:

• Emotional Insecurity: Michael feels he is a "second place" in his girlfriend’s life, haunted by the memory of her first boyfriend who died by suicide after serving in the armed forces.
• Projection of Fears: He acknowledges that his insecurities may stem from his ego, leading him to assume his girlfriend is less present or loving.
• Reframing the Narrative: Dr. DeLoney encourages Michael to redefine the story of their relationship, emphasizing his unique role in bringing joy and support to his girlfriend's life.

Notable Quotes:

• Michael: “Sometimes when I am with her, I feel as if maybe she's not as present with me as I'd like her to be.” [00:05]
• Dr. DeLoney: “You choose every time she looks off, every time she rolls away, every time she pulls back from a kiss. Must be him. Must be him.” [05:23]
• Dr. DeLoney: “You're worth being loved, my brother.” [09:42]

Advice & Insights: Dr. DeLoney highlights the importance of self-worth and encourages Michael to build his confidence independently of his girlfriend's past. He advises Michael to practice accepting love in the present, focusing on how he can contribute positively to the relationship rather than measuring himself against someone from his girlfriend’s past.

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2. Anita's Battle with Trust After Husband's Relapse and Betrayal [16:02 - 25:40]

Caller Background: Anita, grappling with her husband’s relapse and discovered infidelity through inappropriate messages exchanged before their marriage, seeks guidance on rebuilding trust and deciding the future of her marriage.

Key Discussion Points:

• Discovery of Betrayal: Anita finds unsettling messages suggesting her husband had secretive romantic interactions both before and during their marriage.
• Emotional Turmoil: She expresses deep fear that she may never fully recover from the betrayal, feeling that their marriage was built on a foundation of lies.
• Decision to Rebuild or Let Go: Dr. DeLoney emphasizes that the marriage, as Anita knows it, is over. The choice lies in either rebuilding with complete transparency or parting ways.

Notable Quotes:

• Anita: “I have some other women, and I also found messages since we've been married, validating other women.” [16:26]
• Dr. DeLoney: “The marriage you had is over. It doesn't exist.” [20:29]
• Dr. DeLoney: “If you keep thinking of him and you keep bringing him back up in your mind, I want you to go see a counselor.” [09:42]

Advice & Insights: Dr. DeLoney advises Anita to confront the reality of her situation without allowing past insecurities to dictate her current happiness. He recommends honest communication, possibly involving a counselor or therapist, and setting clear boundaries to rebuild trust or make the difficult decision to end the marriage if trust cannot be restored.

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3. Jenna’s Challenge with Her Daughter’s Extreme Anger and Trauma [32:06 - 53:07]

Caller Background: Jenna, a mother of three, seeks advice on managing her 28-year-old daughter’s extreme anger outbursts, which may be connected to Borderline Personality Disorder (BPD), and how to protect her family while dealing with her own trauma.

Key Discussion Points:

• Daughter’s Emotional Outbursts: Jenna describes her daughter’s verbal aggression, swearing, and personal attacks, which are destructive to both the daughter and the family.
• Generational Trauma: She mentions a history of mutual physical violence in her daughter’s past marriage and recognizes possible genetic components to her daughter's behavior.
• Personal Trauma and Guilt: Jenna struggles with guilt over not fully protecting her daughter from past abuse and seeks ways to support her while healing herself.

Notable Quotes:

• Jenna: “How do I help her? How do I protect people? And also how do I deal with my own trauma when those things come up.” [32:06]
• Dr. DeLoney: “You can’t give her something that she doesn’t want from you.” [43:50]
• Dr. DeLoney: “You have to heal yours.” [50:35]

Advice & Insights: Dr. DeLoney differentiates between communication and true connection, urging Jenna to engage in deeper, more meaningful interactions with her daughter. He emphasizes the importance of setting boundaries, seeking specialized trauma therapy, and focusing on mutual healing. Dr. DeLoney also addresses Jenna’s guilt, reassuring her that healing is possible through consistent, compassionate efforts and professional support.

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Conclusion

This episode of The Dr. John DeLoney Show masterfully delves into the intricate dynamics of love, loss, betrayal, and healing within relationships. Through heartfelt dialogues with Michael, Anita, and Jenna, Dr. DeLoney underscores the significance of self-worth, honest communication, setting boundaries, and seeking professional help in overcoming personal and relational challenges. The episode serves as a poignant reminder that healing begins with accepting oneself and making empowered choices to cultivate healthier, more fulfilling relationships.

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Notable Takeaways:

• Self-Worth is Paramount: Recognizing one’s intrinsic value helps navigate insecurities and comparisons in relationships.
• Honest Communication: Transparency and honest discussions are crucial in rebuilding trust after betrayal.
• Boundaries and Healing: Setting clear boundaries and seeking specialized trauma therapy are essential steps in healing and protecting loved ones.
• Compassionate Support: Offering consistent, compassionate support can make a significant difference in someone’s healing journey.

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This summary captures the essence of the episode, highlighting the main issues discussed, the advice provided by Dr. DeLoney, and the emotional depth of each caller's story.

Transcript

[Michael]

I'm wondering how I can navigate feelings of comparison to my girlfriend's late boyfriend. They dated for nearly two years and he went away into the armed forces. And sometimes when I am with her, I feel as if maybe she's not as present with me as I'd like her to be.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Happy New Year. This is Joe on. I don't know why I'm yelling. I was not going to yell. That's one of the things I'm not going to do in 2025. The world's yelling. I'm going to be more chill. So let me do that over. Hey, Happy New Year, everybody. I'm glad that you're joining us on the Dr. John DeLoney Show. Hopefully you are still on vacation. I know you're not, but it's funny, just a dream, isn't it? And I hope that you are launching into a new year. Whether you got new goals, new identities you're trying to work into, you've got some things that you want to be different this year, man. I really hope that you are off to a great, great start and your 2025 is going to be something extraordinary. Go make it. So on the show, we talk about mental and emotional health, we talk about your relationships, we talk about whatever you got going on in your life. And if you want to be on the show, give me a buzz 1-844-693-3291. It's 1-844-693- 3291 or go to john deloney.com ask a and all right, let's roll out to New York, New York and talk to Michael. What's up?

[Michael]

Michael, can you hear me?

[Dr. John DeLoney]

I got you, man. How's it going?

[Michael]

Good, man. How are you?

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Fantastic, brother. What's up?

[Michael]

Nothing much. So just get straight into it. I'm wondering how I can navigate feelings of comparison and altogether my insecurities within my relationship. Feelings of comparison to my girlfriend's late boyfriend who passed away about three years ago now.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Three years ago. So tell me the story, man. She was dating somebody. He passed away and now y'all are together.

[Michael]

Yep. Correct. So they dated for nearly two years and he went away into the armed forces and he committed suicide. Or that was the story that was. Or not the story that was what was said? There's there's some shady circumstances there. But okay, altogether that was what would happen. He committed suicide and so she lost him suddenly. And you know, it breaks my heart every day for her. So, yeah, that's, that's her story with that.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

So what's your story?

[Michael]

My story is that, well, first off, you know, I haven't been many long term relationships. I've been in one my life. And I was younger, I was in high school.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Okay.

[Michael]

And so, you know, I'm kind of new to this and still navigating it, but when it comes to this situation, if that's even the right word for it, situation, I would say that, you know, it's, it's hard for me to, you know, sometimes when I am with her, I feel as if maybe she's not as present with me as, you know, I'd like her to be, possibly if those are the right words. But you know, like I said, it breaks my heart for her every day. I can only understand how she's feeling. I'm the first guy that she actually went on a date with or has been in a relationship since those three years ago.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

How much does she bring this up and how much are you projecting this onto your normal relationship?

[Michael]

Yeah, so that's exactly my concern is that I think it's probably my ego or something around there that's bringing up these feelings of, you know, oh, she's thinking about him, or in this moment she's thinking about him when it's really not true. And it's more or less just my assumptions. I need to like reframe the whole situation in a way in my own mind.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Yeah. Because I see a narrative that you can also create. You can create a story that you're dating somebody that's forever damaged and that you are just this, this second place, like cut rate placeholder for her one true love who died when she was still a late teenager. You can, you can make up that story. You could also make up the story that after three years of the sun being out in her life, everything being smoke and haze and ash, she saw through the haze, you a light. Someone who could bring her some joy, make her laugh again. Someone she could imagine herself having his hand in her hand. And that would be one of the most empowering, uplifting turn like write a new story with, you know, energy. But you don't choose that one.

[Michael]

Yeah.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

You choose every time she looks off, every time she rolls away, every time she pulls back from a kiss. Must be him. Must be him. Must be him. I, I, I may be out to lunch, brother, but I'm 99.9 sure that you're bringing that baggage to this thing.

[Michael]

100. And that's exactly what I thought that I was doing this whole entire time. Because, you know, I, I Don't mind when, you know, if she does bring him up or anything like that. I actually want to hear about him. I do.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

You tell her that.

[Michael]

I do. I tell her that all the time.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Why do you want to hear about him?

[Michael]

Because I want to know how to love her better.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Yeah. You don't love her better through a teenage romance.

[Michael]

Yeah.

[Jenna]

Yeah.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

You learn to love her better by asking her in the present, how can I love you better? You're trying to do it through him. You're trying to become him. You can't be.

[Jenna]

Yeah.

[Michael]

Yeah.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Why are you? Why are you? I'm sounding accusational and I don't mean to be. What is it about you that you don't think you're worth being the lens that you want to be loved through?

[Michael]

It's a good question.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Or why do you keep inserting him as the lens into the glasses that you're wearing with which you see her?

[Michael]

Like I said, I'm not really sure why I do it.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

I mean, what's it protecting you from?

[Michael]

What's it protecting me from? Bringing him into it. Being myself. I mean, just putting my whole self into the relationship being myself.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

And what's a possibility that could happen if you put your whole self into this?

[Michael]

I become so vulnerable and she doesn't accept me.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

There you go. Yeah, that's it. Exhale on that. Sit on it. The only way love works, the only way a long term romantic relationship works. Yeah. Is if both people say, this is all of me. Do you still love me? And if somebody says, this is most of me, but I got to keep this over here to the side, or this is enough of me. Ultimately that relationship fails. It either fails with two people who just decide to be roommates forever, or it fails. Somebody goes and finds somebody else because they need oxygen and the other person's withholding oxygen. So I think what you're feeling for like a first time grown up. How old are you?

[Michael]

I'm 24.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Yeah. First time grown up, I could actually make plans with this person. We have a long term high school girlfriend. You're not thinking, like, we could get married? Well, you're having that thought now, right? We could make. Have. Make a family. We could have kids, buy a house together. You're realizing how terrifying that proposition is. And so I think your terror is very well earned. I think it's grossly unfair to. To. To lay that at the feet of her deceased boyfriend from three years ago.

[Michael]

Yeah.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

And it's unfair for her to carry your insecurity 100. Have you ever sat down with her and said, I think you're pretty amazing, and I just wonder if I'm enough.

[Michael]

I have.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

What'd she say?

[Michael]

You're amazing.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Does she lie to you?

[Michael]

No, I don't. I do not think she's lying to me.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Okay, then I think the thing you need to practice. And this isn't a moral issue or character issue or a defect issue. This is a. This is a skill set issue. Something you got to practice. You've never shot free throws. You got to shoot free throws. That's just kind of it. You have to practice sitting uncomfortably when she says, I love you, and you're. It doesn't feel like it yet, or it feels scary.

[Michael]

And that makes sense.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Over time, you'll feel more comfortable.

[Michael]

Because one thing I do, like, sometimes, like. Like we. Like you just said, it could be a skill set issue, like lack of experience, but sometimes, you know, like I said, again, it's me. It's all just my own insecurities. But if she does, you know, she says she loves me and it's like, huh? Do you really like. You know, it's. And I know she does. In my heart of hearts, I know she does.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

But think. Think of it this way, that your mind.

[Michael]

Yeah.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Taking two hands and shoving away somebody who's trying to hug you.

[Michael]

Yeah.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Don't do that.

[Michael]

I don't want to do that.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

It's violent. Right? Don't do that. And also, it's probably worth the time. It's probably worth your effort, and it's probably got roots all the way back into when you were younger. But there's a reason why your. Your mind and nervous system are trying to protect you. Maybe you got hurt real bad when you're a kid. Maybe mom laughed and you're a kid. Maybe dad was supposed to love you and he did. Like what? I don't know. Maybe your older sister or older brother. Who knows? But somewhere back in there, your body learned that true vulnerability will get you squashed. Or it's never experienced it ever. It's never experienced the peace of being fully seen and fully loved, which is what you should get from your parents. And so, for whatever reason, when this new, amazing relationship, this new young woman says, hey, no, I love you. You're amazing. Your body's instinct, your nervous system, your chest. Your instinct is to shove her away. So we're going to practice not shoving her away. We're going to practice saying these words. I believe you. We're going to practice consciously pulling our shoulders Down. We're going to practice consciously smiling. I believe you. I believe you. And she's going to hold your hands up in the desert even when you don't have the strength and energy to do it. And you're going to learn. And if you keep thinking of him and you keep bringing him back up in your mind, I want you to go see a counselor, go see a therapist, go talk to somebody because again, it's your body trying to protect you. But I think we need to let this young man who passed away, let's let him go rest. He's done enough work and he doesn't. He's going to be present in her heart and especially in her. In her heartbreak forever. She's gonna be part of her. It's different than love. But he's gonna be part of her life story. But he's not yours to pick up and use as glasses to view her and your relationship and your self worth. He doesn't. That's not his job. Your job is to make peace and begin to find strength and confidence in who you are and what you want, what you need and what love you can bring to the table. And most importantly, what love you can accept. Thanks for the call, my brother. I really appreciate you reaching out, man. Practice these things and head into it. Sometimes the scariest, hardest thing to do is just to trust the person looking at us saying, no, no, no, I choose you. We look behind our shoulder to see who they're talking to and we realize they're talking to us. So we're going to practice accepting it. Because you're worth being loved, my brother. We'll be right back. I've been looking for someone I could team up with to offer red light and near infrared light therapy at the highest quality, as well as someone who could help me with my other concerns about our modern living environment. I've tried a number of different companies and products and I'm super excited to be partnering with Bon Charge, a world leader in red light therapy. I've purchased a number of Bon Charge products with my own money and I love them. Red light and near infrared light therapy has been reviewed in over 4,000 peer reviewed studies, with 400 plus studies being double blind placebo trials. Not only do these studies show amazing health benefits, not one has shown any negative side effects. Red light therapy can help with boosting your mood, helping with sleep, reducing stress, recovery from aches and pains, better skin and skin health, cellulite, stretch marks and more. I use my red light therapy panels and mask both near infrared light and red light 10 to 20 minutes each day and sometimes more. And I often do this during my prayer and meditation time or when I'm having trouble sleeping. It's become a cornerstone of my health and wellness practice. I've also ordered Bon Charge's Infrared Sauna Blank, special lamps and bulbs for my home and more. Bon Charge ships worldwide in rapid time and their products, including Red Light Therapy, are HSA and FSA eligible. Bon Charge offers easy returns and exchanges and a 12 month warranty on all red light therapy devices. Go to boncharge.com DeLoney and use code DeLoney to save 15% off your order. That's B O-N C-H-A-R-G-E.com DeLoney and use code DELONEY to save 15% percent it's the new year. It's my favorite time of year and everyone starts thinking of new routines, building better habits, stopping things that aren't helpful, and otherwise building a better life. But we all know that most new go get em goals are a waste of time because we don't put in the systems to make them sustainable. So how about this year let's focus on fewer sustainable goals and building better systems. And let's start by curating a system and a goal that's good for your soul. Let's start by focusing on our spiritual lives in 2025. Let's focus on prayer and meditation. To do this, I recommend Hallow, the number one prayer app in the world. I use it and I love it. Hallow offers over 10,000 guided prayers and meditations to help you grow closer to God and find peace. Hallow has some amazing daily prayers that will be perfect for beginners to start with. And one of Hallow's most popular features is the Daily Reflection with Jonathan Roumie from the show the Chosen. You can also check out the daily scripture readings, nightly sleep prayers, and if you don't have much time, there's even something called the Daily Minute. Hallow makes it easy to build a system and a routine by making a schedule, adding reminders, and fostering a community for accountability. So start this year off right by putting your relationship with God first with the help of Hallowed. Right now they're offering three free months when you [e-mail] DeLoney that's hallow.com DeLoney for three months of Hallow absolutely free. Let's go out to San Diego, California and talk to Jenna. What's up Jenna?

[Anita]

Question is, how do I heal and rebuild trust after my husband's relapse and betrayal when I'm afraid I will never fully recover.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Hmm. I have an immediate thought, but I'm gonna hold. I'm gonna hold. Tell me what happened.

[Anita]

So my husband had about almost two decades sober.

[Jenna]

Okay.

[Anita]

He relapsed, and I went through his phone, found some inappropriate messages with his ex girlfriend from when we were dating before we got engaged, and then some other women, and then also found some messages from. Since we've been married, of just, you know, validating other women and stuff like that. So I feel like this has opened up a whole other can of worms.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Validating like, no, you're beautiful, or no, I love you, or send me nude pics. Like, what do you mean when you say validating?

[Anita]

Telling them they're beautiful or really awesome and, you know, any guy would be lucky to have you and stuff like that.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

And. And is that in violation of you?

[Anita]

Yes.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Okay. And I say that I just told somebody else. Like, I just told the caller before you the exact words, you're worth being loved. Right. Which is very validating. But you're saying this. This is in a. In a secretive romantic relationship or like, he's receiving validation from other people.

[Anita]

Yes. Yeah. And it was definitely secretive and behind my back and crossed a very clear boundary.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Okay. Okay. So when you say the words, I may never fully recover, what do you mean?

[Anita]

Usually when my trust is broken, just historically, that's really hard to get back, whether it's been in a romantic relationship or friends or family. I felt like I could always, you know, come, like, recover from a relapse in terms of building our trust back. But when it involves when there's another door that's been opened with potential cheating before we were married, that kind of changes things for me. And I'm afraid that I can't ever build that trust back, no matter how hard he's willing to try.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Okay. So did you find. You found out he cheated on you while you were engaged?

[Anita]

I have a really. The text messages make it seem that way. I. He doesn't know that I have found that information.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Okay. How long have y'all been married?

[Anita]

Three years.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Three years. Can I just exhale with you for a second? I'm sorry. This. This is the worst. Like, watching somebody you love hurt and go to rehab is pain, pain, pain. And then while you're gone, find. Finding out there's a secret life behind your back that in some. Some situations, may put you at risk. Like your health and safety at risk. That's devastating, right?

[Anita]

Yeah. Yeah. I I know it was before we were married, but.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Doesn't matter. Doesn't matter.

[Anita]

It doesn't matter. Yeah, it.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

In fact, in many ways that can. It can make your marriage feel like it was built on a house of distrust. I mean, a house of lies, right?

[Anita]

Yeah, exactly. And it feels like I went in with pure intentions and a pure heart and he didn't. So it hurts.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

So just for whatever it's worth, your pain is right.

[Anita]

Thank you.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

You're not crazy. I don't think you recover from this. I think you decide, I'm going to build something new or I'm not. Recovering means something has happened that, that you're somehow less than. And I don't think that's true. Like you. You recover from a broken arm because something on you is broken. I think you're. I think you're good. I think the marriage that you thought you had is over. The question is, are we going to build. Am I going to build a new one or not?

[Anita]

Yeah. I feel like our dynamic has changed. Definitely.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

No, listen to me, listen to me. Listen to me. The marriage you had is over. It doesn't exist.

[Anita]

Okay?

[Dr. John DeLoney]

You'll have to decide to build something new. Because if you spend a ton of energy trying to get back what was and he tries to wallpaper over everything to get back to what was, I'm telling you right now, what was never existed. It wasn't what you thought it was. He was with somebody else. He's not the man that you thought you married. Character wise, strength wise, integrity wise. Your life is different now. The thing you had is over. What you have to ask yourself is, am I going to build something new or not? And you can't build something new with somebody who's actively using substance abuse. And you can't build something new with somebody who is not telling the full truth, the whole truth, and nothing about the truth to help them. God, that's it. That's the only way. You got to clear the deck. And by the way, you have to tell the full truth. I went looked in your phone. Here's what I've seen. I've seen everything, but I don't think I've seen everything, actually. I think I've only seen a part of it. I don't know you. I'm disgusted by you. My heart is broken and you broke it. And I don't know if I want to build something new with you. Like, you have to be that open too. Yeah, because if you hedge it, there's going to be. That's the seed that's the soil with. From which resentment grows because you start burying parts of yourself so that you can get to the next thing.

[Anita]

Right, Right.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

So is he home from rehab?

[Anita]

He will be in two weeks.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

He'll be home in two weeks, huh? Do you get to go visit him?

[Anita]

Yes. Yeah.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

How have those visits been?

[Anita]

They've been good. For the most part, they've been good. I definitely. He can sense that something has changed in me because it's hard for me to be vulnerable after seeing things like that. Hard for me to be my normal self with what I know now. But I do plan on being very, very transparent and open about everything that I found.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Can I make two recommendations, please?

[Anita]

Yes.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Recommendation number one. And this is going to sound strange that suddenly I'm flipping teams here, but you going to visit him in rehab as the lights of his life are coming back on, and you keeping this deep, dark secret that you know now is cruel. Don't do that to him, okay? Because he's gonna think there's something innately wrong.

[Anita]

Okay?

[Dr. John DeLoney]

It will be very disorienting, and you might want to get him back. Like, you caused me this much pain. I'm gonna cause you pain in here. You're stuck in here, and you're going to be wondering what I'm thinking about if I found somebody new, like whatever. Whatever stories he's ginning up there because he's stuck in rehab. There's an integrity that I want you to keep whole in this process. You were not treated with dignity and respect, but that will not take your dignity and respect from you. Does that make sense?

[Anita]

Yeah.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

So I've always been a person who tells the truth. I will continue to be a person who tells the truth. The second piece of wisdom is I don't know if you're allowed to do this, but if possible, I would reach out to his case manager, and here's why. And I would. I think there's a possibility that he hears this in rehab from you, and there's a counselor there that can help mediate the conversation, and he's got some support and structure before he comes back out thinking his world is healing, and it just. It's laying in pieces all over his living room floor.

[Anita]

Right.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

And it may be that his social worker says, I'm going to ask you, please don't bring this up right now. He's too fragile and he won't make it through this.

[Anita]

Okay?

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Do you get what I'm saying? Because I know part of you doesn't want to Blow his life up right now.

[Anita]

Right.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Because you're worried about him.

[Anita]

Yes. Yeah, absolutely, I am. I know I can't control the things he does or how he reacts, but it doesn't take away from any bit of fear that I hold.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

That's right.

[Jenna]

That's right.

[Anita]

Yeah.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Do you have a. Do you have a number of a case manager you can call?

[Anita]

I do. I do. Yeah.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

So I would ask that that person speak confidentially. That you can speak confidentially to them. And they may not be able to. They may say, hey, he's my client, actually. But hopefully they'll use their professional discretion and wisdom and judgment.

[Anita]

Okay.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

But I would call that person and say, here's what I found. We're gonna have to do a confrontation. I'm gonna have to sit down and decide if I want to stay married to this person. And rest assured, they're going through that stuff inside.

[Anita]

Right.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

They're walking through amends. They're walking through truth telling. They're walking through, you may get out of here and your. And your partner leaves you like that, that they're going to be talking about that stuff inside. But it's just different when it happens. Can I ask you a personal question?

[Anita]

Absolutely, yeah.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Are you done.

[Anita]

With a marriage? I don't know. I.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

What's your gut tell you?

[Anita]

That it will never be the same.

[Jenna]

It.

[Anita]

Exactly what you said.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

That building fell down. It's over. Yeah. Are you going to build a new building or not? Going to.

[Anita]

I. Something in me says I have to try.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Okay. What's that? What's that something? It could be God. It could be arrogance. It could be ego. It could be love. What? What is that something?

[Anita]

Probably love. Most likely it's love, but it's also.

[Jenna]

I can't.

[Anita]

Sorry.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

You're okay. You're okay.

[Anita]

Something about throwing away a marriage with this person who is my best friend just breaks my heart.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Yeah.

[Anita]

Especially if he's doing everything to fix it and. And build it back up, and I can't. But I feel like I'm betraying him now.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

And I think that's one of the demons of infidelity is it makes the person who got cheated on feel insane. Right.

[Anita]

Yeah. I mean, I felt crazy about it because I never had any worry. There was no reason for me to ever think it was like a punch to the gut because there weren't any. Any signs that I knew of, so.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

And. And that's. That's. I talk about this a lot on the show, but that, to me is one of the I mean, there's the initial betrayal, and there's a lack of safety. Right. If you're. If you're sleeping with somebody else and you're sleeping with me, I don't know what you're bringing into this. Into this relationship. Right?

[Anita]

Oh, yeah.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

But I think one of the terrifying aspects of it is you didn't see it, and you lose trust in Jenna. Like, if I can't see that he's having multiple relationships with multiple people under my roof, you feel crazy.

[Anita]

It's the. The I. I wrote down in a journal. It's the ease of lying that someone could so nonchalantly and easily lie and tell a story that is so. The way they talk about it and look me in the eye, it's so belie. And I beat myself up that I didn't see that.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

And you got married to somebody who's been wrestling with addiction. The greatest truth benders on planet Earth. And so I. I think writing. I mean, I'm glad that you have a journaling practice. I think writing something down and finding a situation where you can read it to him.

[Anita]

Okay.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

And if, you know, I want to fix this, but there's gonna. There's gonna. We're gonna have to rebuild trust from the. From the basement up. Begin to think through what would it take for that? Like, no phones, no social media, no this. If I see alcohol again, like, what. What. What is a path going to look like? And by the way, your path can change every. Every 10 days. Right? I thought I was going to be okay with this. I'm not okay with this. I thought that I, like. You get to set the ground rules, and he gets to decide whether he's in or out. But there's a cruelty to. We just have to rebuild this thing. And he's like, okay, whatever it takes, you know, move back in the same house very quickly, everything goes back to the way it was. And so there's got to be some level of me thinking through, okay, if I'm going to stay in this here's what must be true. And you can make a list of 200 things. You can make a list of 800 things. You can make a list of three things. Here's what must be true. Here's the ground rules for redesigning and rebuilding. No, not re. Here's a. The. Here's the ground rules for building, for designing, for constructing a new home. Because you burned our other home to the ground. It's gone. So if you and I are going to get in a room and meet with an architect and meet with the design crew and interior designers and a construction team and we're going to rebuild this thing. Here's what must be true. Sorry that you're going through this, Jenna. He's lucky to have somebody walking alongside him and loving him like you do. My hope for you is you don't lose yourself in this process and trying to make this thing work. My hope is it empowers you and it emboldens you that what you want matters. What integrity matters. Strength and compassion and kindness matters. And integrity. Integrity. Integrity matters. Thank you for the call, Jenna. Call anytime. We'll be right back. All right. You know this. I'm a founding member of the Anti Internet club. I think I'm the only member. But listen, I'm all over the Internet these days. You are too. And as a society, we're creating more and more online accounts all the time. We're signing up for promos, giving away our email addresses. We're buying everything with our phones. I get hundreds of emails to my personal account trying to sell me stuff, all kinds of stuff, and I hate it. And I also know it's not going away anytime soon, which is why I'm happy to use and recommend Delete me. With all of our online activity, do we really know where our data is and who has it? Chances are high that data broker websites have your information and they're selling it to scammers, spammers and other shady people. But when you use Delete Me, they find and remove your data from hundreds of sites and they send reports throughout the year to show you exactly what they've removed and from where. And right now, I'm getting way fewer of those spammy texts and phone calls, which allows me to let my guard down, down just a little bit and feel some peace this holiday season. Share the peace by giving a Delete Me subscription to someone you love. Individual Delete Me plans start as low as nine bucks a month. Go to JoinDeleteMe.com DeLoney today for 20 off. That's join J-O-I n join DeleteMe.com DeLoney all right, let's go out to Coarse Gold, California and talk to Anita. What's up, Anita?

[Jenna]

Hey, Dr. John. How are you this morning?

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Doing all right. How about you?

[Jenna]

I'm doing pretty well.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Awesome. What's up?

[Jenna]

So my question is how to best help my daughter and protect the family when she has and has had since she was probably about 10, maybe earlier, extreme anger outbursts. They could be connected to borderline personality Disorder, according to some of the research I've done. I don't know exactly what it is, but been pretty destructive in lives, hers and ours. So how do I. How do I help her? How do I protect people? And also how do I deal with my own trauma when those things come up?

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Yeah, thanks for calling. There's a couple of variables here. How old is she?

[Jenna]

She is 28.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Other little ones involved. She have kids?

[Jenna]

She has three. How old is 11? Eight and five.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Is she married?

[Jenna]

She is not married. She has been with her current partner for 10 years.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

10 years. But he is not the father of these kids.

[Jenna]

He is the father of the younger two. The oldest one she does not have custody of, but she does get some time with her.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Why doesn't she have custody?

[Jenna]

Because she and the father were married and things blew up a number of times. She ended up leaving a little. A little over a year after the marriage and did not bring the baby with her and really didn't pursue custody.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

So she doesn't have custody. Almost always if a mom doesn't have custody, there's physical abuse or there is substance abuse. But in this case she just left her kid.

[Jenna]

Right?

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Okay.

[Jenna]

Not really. There's. At that point in her life, I don't think there was any substance abuse. There were some physical. There was some physical violence with her husband at the time. They divorced pretty soon after that.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

He was violent with her or vice versa.

[Jenna]

I think it was mutual. Okay.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

So I guess there's multiple layers here. She's a 28 year old, so if you ask me, how do I protect the family? And you're talking about you and her other siblings and aunts and uncles. You protect them by not having somebody who's physically volatile around. If you're asking me about the kids, her kids, then we react very directly and very swiftly to protect children in all cases. Even if it's going to cost us a relationship with another adult. Because we protect kids. That's what we do.

[Jenna]

Yeah. And allow me to clarify a little bit. She is not. When I talk about outbursts and explosions and things for the most part. Except with her. With the. Except with her first husband and her partner. She's not violent. Like she's not violent with her kids. Okay. I've been really closely associated with the family for a really long time. So.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

So I feel like you're speaking really at 30000ft. Take me land. Land it for me.

[Jenna]

She. She explodes verbally, she swears at people.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

She screams at people, she curses, she makes. She Goes for the jugular and says hurtful things. What does that mean?

[Jenna]

Yes, all of that. And. And she says vile things, kind of like her dad did with me. Just really personal attacks. Personal attacks. She doesn't confine it to the person. She expands it to everyone she knows that they care about. It's. It's. It's really difficult.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Why do you continue to wade into the. Another adult treating you that way?

[Jenna]

She is my daughter. I do know about a lot of the experience that she had.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Tell me about her experience.

[Jenna]

Her dad. So I was married for about 14 years to her dad. He did the same thing. Her grandma on his side has the same propensities, and I've seen that from her as well. I understand that there's probably a genetic component to this. One of the things that I'd like to understand is. I know I'm not answering your question quite, but I would like to understand if there's more. When we're talking mental illness, which I wasn't aware of when I married him.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Talk right into your phone for me.

[Jenna]

Okay? Sorry.

[Anita]

Okay.

[Jenna]

When I married him a long time ago, I had no idea about mental illness. And it was a really long, really traumatic marriage. But I saw her get hurt by him specifically. And I feel like. And I'm working on protecting myself. I'm sorry. Not protecting myself, but forgiving myself for not protecting my kids.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Have you told her that?

[Jenna]

I'm sorry, say that again.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Have you told her that?

[Jenna]

Yes.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

How did she receive it?

[Jenna]

Flippantly, usually.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Okay, so let me clarify a few things for you. Mental health disorders, I categorize those differently than emotional health disorders. Regardless of the disorder you have, you don't hurt kids, period. And so I don't care how somebody's mom treated them and how they in turn treated your kid, their daughter. I don't care. The lineage on that. You don't hurt kids. There's not an excuse for it. A borderline personality disorder, schizophrenia, bipolar. Those are contexts, not an excuse. Because if as an adult, you can't control your rage and you scream and yell and hit a child, it's the other adult's job to protect that kid.

[Jenna]

Right.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

But it never makes it okay. Or. I understand. Or. Well, actually, he has a. I don't care. I could care less what somebody has. You don't say that to kids. You don't hurt kids. And so, number one, I don't. It sounds like, unless I missed something, there's not been psychiatric intervention with your daughter. You've gotten online and asked some People and tried to figure out what she might have to explain her behavior. I don't care about any Internet diagnostics.

[Jenna]

She has had psychiatric treatment evaluation.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

She had. Does she have diagnostics? What is. What has she been diagnosed with?

[Jenna]

She has been diagnosed with severe anxiety, depression, and she has been diagnosed as bipolar.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Okay. When was the last time she was diagnosed as bipolar?

[Jenna]

I believe it's probably been, oh, goodness, six or seven years. She has had. Part of the challenge of this, Dr. John, is that she has been to psychiatrists and psychologists and counselors, and she does do a lot of. A lot to help herself to grow and to grow out of the trauma that she has experienced. And so most of the time in public situations anyway. And even at my house, she doesn't explode anymore, but she's much more comfortable at her house. And so I've. I've just.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

I don't think that's true. I don't think that's true.

[Jenna]

Okay.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

I don't. You don't explode on your. On pieces of you, your children, because you're more comfortable.

[Jenna]

No, no, no. It's her partner that she explodes on the most.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Okay. My guess is home. That her body put little GPS pins in home. Growing up, home has never been a place of peace and safety, ever. And so when she goes home, when the most important, the most valuable, the most developmentally critical male relationship in her life was, her father was the one who imparted most of the direct pain, then the leap, her body has to learn, her nervous system has to learn how to be in the presence of another grown man who says the words I love you, and she can receive it. And so my guess is she doesn't feel like. She's like, ah, I can put my guard down at home. It's the exact opposite. When she goes home and that front door closes, she's at war. Even if she knows that this guy's safe and loves her and been together 10 years.

[Jenna]

I think that it's. I think that it's possible and probable that he is probably the safest person for her. She. They talk about everything, but she displays some of the things that I. That her dad is too, where she's just scared all the time that he's going to cheat, which he is not. He's ultra loyal, as one would need to be to be with her. And. But.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

So tell me how I can help you because we can't help her. She's not on the phone. How can I help you?

[Jenna]

Okay. So it has been a long journey with her and what I would like to know is, as her mom and someone who has decided. I have been doing therapy myself. I have a lot over the years. Some of the trauma is coming up as I do some therapy. And I am trying to figure out how to help her because this is the lifetime thing. And I don't know enough about whatever the mental health issues she has, what could benefit her. I understand boundaries. We, we work really hard on those.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

You're not going to like my answer. Can I be direct, please? Is it okay? You can't give her something that she doesn't want from you, and she's. If she's not asking for your help, you. Trying to go back and heal the past with future behaviors is an impossible task. And what you end up doing is giving her more work to do.

[Jenna]

I'm so sorry. There's a crow right there. If I can go away from it a little bit.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

So you, you are carrying around an immense amount of guilt for what happened as a kid, when she was a kid. And looking back, there's lots of woulda, coulda, shouldas, and I would agree with you. You should have done things differently. But it's easy for me to armchair quarterback this thing 20 years later. I'm not going to do that to you. What I will tell you is the only thing on planet earth you can deal with is what happens next. Not trying to figure out ways to duct tape and wallpaper and stitch up what happened in the past.

[Jenna]

I'm not quite sure that I'm trying to do that. What I'm trying to figure out is now. And what I'm trying to figure out is what to do.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Go have breakfast with her every week.

[Jenna]

We have, we have a lot of contact. We. We have the kids over.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

It's different, Anita. That's different. And let's be honest, if everything I put on the table, you're going to be like, well, I already do that. It's not what I mean. What you're doing right now isn't bringing you peace. So you're going to have to do something different. Having the kids over and having quote, unquote contact is different than every week you and her going to get coffee together. One of those is you have a job, she's got a job. You get in the routine, you get in the dance, the kids come around and play. You kind of half hearted with them. You kind. It's. It's a numbing device. It's awesome and it's good and it's long term relationship building and Those kids are going to have fond memories of grandma's house. But that's not the same thing as every week you and daughter go look across the table from each other at a diner and say, how are you?

[Jenna]

Hmm?

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Because right now she's not calling you saying, mom, I keep blowing up on my partner. I keep screaming at my. This man. How do I stop this? She's not doing that.

[Jenna]

She doesn't say, how do I stop this? She does call and say all those. She gives me all the details.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Yeah.

[Jenna]

She doesn't say, how do I stop?

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Okay. I have a rule in my life that I don't answer questions I'm not asked. And I also draw pretty firm lines. If I'm not being invited into bad, into ugly, rude, destructive, soul crushing behavior, I will say, hey, I don't want to be a part of this. Or maybe I might occasionally ask the old Dr. Phil line, how's that working for you? But listen, you can say all the right things. It doesn't matter. Her. Her healing will have to come. Yalls relationship will have to be healed from the nervous system out, from the inside out. And that can only be done, that cannot be done with words that can't be done with. She calls you once a week and throws grenades at you or tells you about the grenade she threw somebody else. She absolves herself and goes right back in. It will be solved with gentle, over and over and over, consistent showing up and showing up and showing up. It's very not sophisticated. It's very not like high brow.

[Jenna]

I do. I'm sorry, I don't mean to keep going, keep going in there. But she. We are in contact. I mean, she texts first thing in the morning generally. She calls in the morning. She calls in the afternoon. We. We have contact all the time. That part of why I know so much, which is awesome. I have been very deliberate and intentional about cultivating relationship and faith. Relationship with her. So they're saying in part that change happens with that intentional, deliberate contact.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

And that's not what I'm saying at all, actually.

[Jenna]

Okay.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

There's a strong difference, significant difference between communication and connection. Y'all are communicating all the time. Text message, phone call, dropping the kids off. That is different. Then that is. That is Twinkies and gummy candies to steak and salad.

[Jenna]

When we connect, part of. Part of the challenge is that I make her angry.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

That's it. That's. That's the place to lean in. And that might mean you sit down with her and say, I would love it if you came to a relationship counselor with me, you're the most important relationship I have left in this world. And her body is GPS pins. Probably in yalls connected relationship.

[Jenna]

Oh, I'm sure.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

And so hiding from those are pretending they don't exist because we communicate via text message between phone calls where she just talks non stop talk, talk, talk, talk and hangs up. Listen, I can. I could text my wife I love you a hundred times today. She will get that data. She'll get that information. Her body will not exhale until I walk through the door and she sees me across the room, drop my bag with no phone in my hand and smile and say I'm so glad I'm home. Then her soul, her nervous system will rest. Do you get the difference?

[Jenna]

I do. And I wonder how to be a restful place, a more restful place for her with all these GPS pins that she has.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

You, you have to heal yours.

[Jenna]

Working on it.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

I know, I know.

[Jenna]

So how do I. When there's another traumatic event that brings up the memories of all the other traumatic events and there have been a lot. One of the things that my current therapist says that I am really having a hard time with is you just talk about it. I found that when I just talk about it, I. It makes it harder to live. It makes it harder to not carry anxiety. It makes it harder to. How do you. How do I heal?

[Dr. John DeLoney]

I had to personally go sit down with somebody who specializes in trauma care and bodywork. There's some people that think it's a woo woo. I happen to believe in it really strongly that trauma gets stored in your body. It doesn't get stored in your words.

[Jenna]

Yes.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

And so for me, I had somebody who was specially trained and they have those in California specially trained in trauma therapy. And it required me to go back through hell. But she was with me and she had her hand on my shoulder, she had her hand on my elbow. She had her hand on my hand. And it was the first time in my life somebody touched me and they didn't want something from me. But what my body learned over time was it wasn't safe then, but it's safe now. And I have not found anybody anywhere that can talk their way into safety.

[Jenna]

No. And that has been my challenge. Part of my therapy has been two or three years in a room with someone. But the. I have anxiety attacks when it comes to that. I mean when it comes to talking like revisiting going back to some of those things and I know how to resolve those. Except that the ways. The ways I know to resolve them.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Yeah, but the way you're. You, your body is trying to resolve them. Hasn't worked.

[Jenna]

Correct.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

And so we have to deal with the anxiety. And that means the way you deal with anxiety is directly through it. So maybe it's not you talking, just walking right in and ripping the wound open. All right, tell me what happened. That's horrific therapy, by the way. Almost all good therapy when you're dealing with hard trauma starts with a season of teaching you skills on regulation, on breathing, on exhale, on how to tap your legs, on how to think through, how to process, let things move through you, so that when you get to the hard parts, you've got a set of skills underneath you. And I think, more importantly, you've developed a sense of safety with another person in the room with you. That's how your. Your. Our bodies are regulated with other people. And so we can only ever truly feel safe if the person we're in the room with or people are in the room with are also safe. You can't just be in the room with some cold shoulder saying, all right, well, then what happened? And you go through it, your body's going to start ringing every alarm bell it has. And so what I would tell you is if you. If you've been seeing somebody for two years and you have panic attacks, thinking about going to see them, stop. Listen to your body.

[Jenna]

That was in the past.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Okay, Is this making sense? Like, you have to decide this. Here's what I think it comes down to, Anita. You have to decide. I lived and experienced hell. It's married to a very, very abusive, evil man. And my daughter was there, too, and I didn't. I would do anything to go back and protect her, get her out of there, get me out of there. And I can't, because what has happened, has happened, has appeared at the end. And now I'm watching my daughter both recreate in some minor way what happened, what she experienced, and I'm reaching for her in the dark, but my body is still scared to death about what happens next. And if you can metabolize that reality, then you can come to the belief that you're not going to therapy as punishment for what happened or what you didn't do years ago. You're going to counseling, you're going to therapy, you're doing the trauma work so that. Because you're worth it, so that you can have a peaceful rest of your life. Because I think what's happened is your daughter's trying desperately to plug into you, and it's still electric because you still have the shame and you still have the guilt and you still have the trauma so close to the surface, and you think all you're worth is some text messages and her calling you and yelling at you, and you're worth so much more than that. You're worth peace. And that also means you've got to set down the bricks of shame that you've been carrying for so long. You got to set them down. And when you get anxious, you got to get with somebody who's trained and go right through the anxiousness. Not around it, right through it. Sometimes that is not talking about your traumatic situation, but maybe hearing somebody read a story or maybe drawing a picture first, but slowly heading into it. And I personally have experienced bodywork related to trauma. I personally have witnessed, seen emdr. I've met with countless students who have learned EMDR and brain spotting and tapping, all these different modalities, all these different techniques. All I have to say is there's ways that you process this through your body and then you move through it, but the goal has to be on the other end. I'm setting this down. I'm not carrying it anymore. His influence on my life is going to end. He is going to stop impacting every minute of every hour of every day of my life. And I have a goal that I want peace. I want to be able to fall asleep at night. I want to be able to reconnect with my daughter. That's the. That's the path here, and that's the story here. And it's easy to get stuck in a loop, and it's easy to say, I've been trying. I'm not. It's not working. It's not working. Okay, if what you're doing is not working, good, you got more data. Let's try something else. And if you've been with somebody for two years and they still make you have a panic attack, Cool. I'm gonna go see somebody else. This isn't working. But the goal is going to be, he controls my life not one second more. Then I'm gonna go run head first screaming out into the field to grab my daughter. And I'm not gonna try to go heal her, quote, unquote, mental health issues. I'm not gonna Google what's wrong with her. I'm gonna be a safe, peaceful place for her. I'm gonna work as hard as I can to get to that place. You're both worth it. Thanks for the call, Anita. We'll be right back. All right, before we get back to the show, let's talk about organifi. Listen. Health and wellness is an adventure and a journey. It's not a destination. You can never eat so great or work out so hard on one particular day that you're good for the next month. Being well and healthy is something you work on every single day. And I'm not perfect, like, not by a long shot. And chances are you're not either. Our health and wellness journeys have stops and starts and highs and lows, victories and setbacks. One way to make both of our journeys easier is to make consistently healthy choices about what we eat and drink. That's why I love Organifi because their whole food blends contain only the best plant based, certified organic, vegan, dairy free and soy free ingredients. And organifi makes it super easy to get the benefits. Just mix it with water or your favorite healthy beverage. Their green juice is great in the morning and it's packed with superfoods that help boost your energy, calm your mind and support you throughout the day. Organifi red juice is loaded with antioxidants to help with focus, stamina and recovery. And don't forget the pure juice and those happy drops make organifi part of your health and wellness journey. Go to Organifi.com DeLoney right now to save 20% at checkout with code DeLoney that's O R-G-A-N-I-F I.com DeLoney and use code DeLoney for 20% off. All right, we're back. Hey, thanks for joining us today. I wish your new year's gonna be. I hope your new year's off to an amazing start. We're gonna do a special segment during the next show about what I'm doing this new year and what I want to challenge you all to do in the new year. And don't forget, this show can be streamed the video and the audio in the Ramsey Network app and you can get the shows a week early. If you just can't wait, you can get them a week early in the Ramsey Network app. So get everything early, exclusive and for free by clicking the link in the show notes and downloading the Ramsey Network app today. If you go out to eat this week, I want you to prepare, go prepared and I want you to tip outrageously. I want you to tip obnoxiously and I want you to leave a note that says I saw you and I'm grateful for your hard work. Thank you for showing up for me. Thank you for showing up for me and my date. Thank you for showing up for me and my family. And I want you to give somebody at the beginning of this new year a little extra light. A little great. Vinnie Twitter, it says some coal in the furnace to help get their. Their train a little bit further down the track. We're gonna. We're gonna change everything this year with a bunch of tiny wins. We're gonna pick up trash, we're gonna tip really well. We're gonna let other people walk in front of us in the door. We're gonna say thank you. We're gonna do the workout, and we don't want to. We're gonna not get that extra handful of candy that was for me. And if you're Kelly, you're not gonna get any more tattoos. You're done. You gotta be done. Your liver is like, I can't process any more. Foreign bodies change everything this year. Tiny win by tiny win. I love you guys. Stay in school. Don't do drugs. Bye. Hey, what up? What up? Listen. The latest episode of my docu series, United States of Anxiety is available right now exclusively on the Ramsey Network app. Each episode follows a caller from my show on a 90 day journey to transform their life. You want to the cool part? I personally walk alongside them throughout it all. This episode features Kelsey, whose battle with severe anxiety is putting her most important relationships at risk. And you can only watch this show on the Ramsey network app, so make sure you download the app and dive in right now. And while you're there, you can also binge episodes of the Dr. John DeLoney show on Demand and other Ramsey Network shows like the Ramsey Show. And did I mention this app is free? Go ahead and download the Ramsey Network app right now. Go, go.