How Do I Get Over My Ex-Wife’s Betrayal?

Summary

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The Dr. John Delony Show – "How Do I Get Over My Ex-Wife’s Betrayal?"

Date: August 29, 2025
Host: Dr. John Delony
Podcast: The Dr. John Delony Show (Ramsey Network)

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Episode Overview

This episode of The Dr. John Delony Show is a caller-driven discussion focused on real-life struggles around relationships, mental health, and personal growth. Dr. Delony helps listeners work through painful betrayals, co-parenting issues after divorce, navigating the side effects of mental health medication, professional boundary-setting, and dealing with difficult family dynamics.

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Key Discussion Points & Detailed Breakdown

1. Coping With Ex-Wife’s Betrayal and Building a New Life

Caller: Divorced Dad (Jorge)
Segment: [00:21–17:11]

Situation:
A recently divorced father (after a 10-year relationship, 7 years married), co-parenting a special needs (autistic) son, struggles with anger and resentment toward his ex-wife, who had an affair and left for her boss (now living with him). He's troubled by lingering self-blame, wants to heal for his son's sake, but feels “better” only when his ex is suffering.

Key Insights & Advice:

• Self-Blame & Resentment:
  Dr. Delony highlights how the caller internalizes the failure of the relationship—blaming himself for working hard, financial struggles, and providing for the family.

  "Not one time have I heard you say, ‘I want peace. I want to be well.’ ...Somehow it sounds like you've taken this on as you're at fault here." (Dr. John Delony, [05:17])

• Reframing Forgiveness:
  Forgiveness is reframed as a gift to oneself, not the ex.

  “Forgiveness is a gift to you...I'm not going to carry around my ex-wife's choices any longer. If you open your eyes every morning and think I'm a failure...it's just going to stay in your chest forever.” (Dr. John Delony, [06:11])

• Authentic Grieving & Moving On:
  Dr. Delony normalizes anger and the deep hurt of a shattered family vision, encouraging honest, proactive grieving without guilt.

  “You're right to be angry and I want you to begin to build a life so that you have peace in it.” (Dr. John Delony, [09:38])

• Building a New Identity:
  The focus shifts from the ex to redefining personal goals and identity:

  “For the first time ever, I want you to begin to ask yourself, what do I want? What do I want my life to look like? …Who do I want to become?” (Dr. John Delony, [13:08]) Practical suggestion: Spend time writing down goals and desired identity.

• Making Transitions Easier for the Child:
  Create intentional moments of joy—use music, fun, and silliness during custody handoffs to reclaim the emotional environment.

  “When you get in the car with him…create an environment of silly and laughter and fun…She doesn’t get a vote in how I feel or how this handoff is going to go.” (Dr. John Delony, [15:00])

• Letting Go of Resentment:
  “I'm not going to come home and drink poison and hope that she gets sick from it.” (Dr. John Delony, [16:28])

• Affirmation:
  Dr. Delony repeatedly affirms the caller’s efforts and survival.

  “If you've never cut you some slack, hear me saying it, dude, I'm proud of you.” (Dr. John Delony, [12:57])

Resources Offered:

• Book: Building a Non-Anxious Life
• Financial Peace University & EveryDollar App

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2. Managing Physical Health While on Mental Health Medication

Caller: Christine
Segment: [19:40–33:45]

Situation:
Christine, on antidepressants (Effexor) and anti-anxiety meds for 10+ years, reports substantial weight gain (100+ lbs) and blunted emotional range despite active efforts to stay physically healthy. Her doctor blames her, suggesting surgery, despite clear evidence the meds are the cause.

Key Insights & Advice:

• Validation:
  Dr. Delony assures her this is common, not a personal failure.

  “That’s a very common experience…You’re not insane and you’re not somehow extra dysfunctional.” (Dr. John Delony, [21:38])

• Finding the Right Doctor:
  Criticizes dismissive, blame-shifting providers; strongly recommends finding a new, more holistic-minded physician.

  “That’s madness…Find a new physician, please.” (Dr. John Delony, [23:26])

• Whole-Health Approach:
  Recognizes that powerful psych meds have well-documented side effects, which need to be addressed by empathetic professionals rather than “whack-a-mole with symptoms.”

  “You’re under some pretty powerful narcotics… you’re not gross, and you’re not dysfunctional, and you’re not somehow broken.” (Dr. John Delony, [25:35])

• Trauma-Informed Healing:
  Explores root causes—anxiety stemming from childhood trauma—and encourages seeking trauma-informed therapy, including somatic/breath-based modalities.

  “There are trauma-informed therapists…not only will talk to you about it but will help your body heal.” (Dr. John Delony, [29:49]) “If you walk around every day scared of your own body... blaming yourself for the outcomes and somewhat predictable outcomes of some of these medications, it just further fuels this shame cycle you’ve been on…” ([31:23])

• Holistic Support:
  Warns against using online forums for medication advice due to lack of individual context and risks of confusion/shame.

• Affirmation & Encouragement:

  “I’m proud of you for caring enough about yourself to go get medication and go sit with a doctor. And I’m proud of you for having enough courage to say… this is coming with some side effects that are as bad, if not worse, than my original challenge.” (Dr. John Delony, [32:19])

Resources Offered:

• Building an Unanxious Life (book)

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3. Navigating Difficult Professional Relationships & Boundaries

Caller: Brad (Property Manager)
Segment: [36:56–47:18]

Situation:
Brad, a property manager at a rapidly growing company, manages relationships with landlords and tenants, often caught in emotionally charged conflict between both. He struggles with wanting everyone to like him (people-pleasing) and feels stressed by making tough calls.

Key Insights & Advice:

• You Choose Who Gets a Vote:
  Dr. Delony introduces a practical exercise—physically listing (on index cards) the select few people whose opinions truly matter, and putting their names in a “vote box.”

  “You get to choose who hurts you.” (Advice Dr. Delony received in grad school, [44:16]) “I want you to write…‘[Name] gets a vote in my life’...limit down five to six people…these are people that if they call you, you care…” (Dr. John Delony, [43:44])

• People Pleasing & Boundaries:
  The conversation unpacks how wanting to please everyone leads to stress and giving too much weight to others’ disapproval.

  “I realized I was giving everybody a vote. …when I took unhooked the rest of the world from that inside...it was freeing.” (Dr. John Delony, [44:55])

• Responding Calmly:
  Recommends grounding first with a breath before responding to confrontation.

  “My first word will always be a breath.” (Referencing Jefferson Fisher, [47:15])

• Maintaining Integrity Without Absorbing Abuse:
  Encourages letting go of abusive clients and prioritizing personal and team dignity over universal approval.

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4. Dealing With Difficult Family Boundaries (Addiction in the Family)

Email from Listener: Jennifer ([51:47–54:57])

Situation:
Jennifer’s in-laws are alcoholics. She and her husband set boundaries (no child visits the grandparents’ home), but her mother-in-law declines family invites if no alcohol is present, then asks for event pictures afterward. Jennifer feels guilty—worries about enabling—and wonders if she’s the problem.

Key Insights & Advice:

• Follow the Spouse’s Lead:

  “I'm always going to take the lead of the actual child of dysfunctional, emotionally unregulated parents. So if husband is saying we don’t have contact with them… I’m going to follow that lead…” (Dr. John Delony, [53:10])

• It’s Not Enabling to Send Pictures:

  “I don’t have a problem with sending grandma and grandpa pictures… There doesn’t have to be any communication now. I’m just sending these and that’s it.” (Caller Kelly, [54:43])

• Let Go of the Idealized Family Vision:
  Emphasizes facing guilt over not having the family dynamic one wishes for; it's about grieving what's lost, not fixing dysfunctional relationships.

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• "Forgiveness is a gift to you… I'm not going to carry around my ex-wife's choices any longer."
  — Dr. John Delony ([06:11])

• "Somebody threw a grenade in the middle of your house and you jumped on top of your special needs kid to protect him… you survived… I'm proud of you." — Dr. John Delony ([12:57])

• "You get to choose who hurts you." — Dr. John Delony quoting Dr. Pearson ([44:16])

• "My first word will always be a breath." — Jefferson Fisher, cited by Dr. John Delony ([47:15])

• "I can be a great man and have blown something professionally. I can be a great guy and not a great husband sometimes." — Dr. John Delony ([47:53])

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Timestamps for Key Segments

• [00:21–17:11] — Caller 1: Recovery & Resentment after Ex-Wife's Betrayal
• [19:40–33:45] — Caller 3: Physical Health and Psychiatric Meds
• [36:56–47:18] — Caller 2: Property Management Conflicts & People-Pleasing
• [51:47–54:57] — Email: Boundaries with Alcoholic In-Laws

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Tone and Language

The episode is supportive, direct, and practical—Dr. Delony meets callers with empathy, candor, tough love, and actionable steps. His advice normalizes difficult emotions, prioritizes self-compassion, and emphasizes control over one's internal environment in the face of external chaos or betrayal.

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Summary

Listeners are reminded that betrayal, anxiety, people-pleasing, and family dysfunction are universal struggles—and there are paths toward healing, peace, and agency. Dr. Delony offers concrete tools, poignant metaphors, and hopeful challenges for anyone facing pain or difficult decisions.

Transcript

[Dr. John DeLoney]

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[Caller 1 (Divorced Dad)]

I've been divorced for about a year and a half now. It sounds kind of juvenile, I guess, but when I feel like she's, I guess, hurting the rest of the week for me feels a lot better. And I don't want that to be the baseline for whether I feel like I'm healing or not.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Yeah. Can I tell you something that I'm hearing? What up? What up? This is John with the Dr. John DeLoney show coming to you from Nashville, Tennessee. I hope you are doing awesome on this show. We talk about your mental and emotional health and your marriage and your relationships and your kids. Whatever you got going on in your life. My promise is I'll sit with you and we will figure out what's your next right move. All over the world people are struggling with all kinds of things and it's a messy, messy time. And my promise is I may not even have the right answer, but I will sit with you and we'll figure out what is next. If you want to be on this show, I'd love to have you go to john deloney.com, ask a s k and fill out the form and Kelly will build a show and hopefully you can get on. We love to talk to you. So go out to Denver, Colorado and talk to Jorge. What's up George? How we doing brother?

[Caller 1 (Divorced Dad)]

Doing good, Dr. John. How are you?

[Dr. John DeLoney]

I'm doing good. My man. What's going on dude?

[Caller 1 (Divorced Dad)]

So I've been divorced for about a year and a half now. Share a son, 50, 50 custody with my ex wife. He needs a lot of support. He's special needs autistic and I'm having issues, kind of still holding on to resentment and anger towards my ex wife and that does not help with the co parenting that, that my son requires because he needs a lot of support. And so I'm trying to figure out how I can kind of move past that resentment and anger and to better, to better support him and, and to kind of foster a better relationship with my ex.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

What happened?

[Caller 1 (Divorced Dad)]

So it's a long story. So she, we, when we married, she came, she came in with two kids from a previous relationship and so we got married, we had our son in. So we were together, I guess. Let me go back. We were together for 10 years, married for seven. We had our son in 2018 and I lack of due to finances and other things. I was working 60 hours a week. She was working. I was taking care of my son in the daytime, working nights, went back to school during that. During COVID During that time. And the goal was to get my degree so that I could improve my position, so that she could eventually be a stay at home mom and we could live off of one income. And I guess just as life happens, you know, got busy and our connection kind of faltered and she ended up having a. An affair with. With her boss and ended up getting pregnant from that affair. And after we divorced, she moved in with him and she's been living with him since.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Can I tell you something that I'm hearing?

[Caller 1 (Divorced Dad)]

Yes.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

And again, I, I know this, like, this is a compressed time and I know it can be nerve wracking when you're like finally on the phone. I get all that.

[Caller 1 (Divorced Dad)]

Yeah.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

But you told me you wanted to let go of this anger and resentment for your son so that you could, so you, you could be a better co parent with your ex. As you just told this story, I heard you blame yourself all the way through for working 60 hours to provide for your family, to also going back to school, to also being a caretaker of a special needs kid during the day.

[Caller 1 (Divorced Dad)]

Yeah.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

And I hear you just beating yourself up. Not one time have I heard you say, I want peace. I want to be well, I want to be okay. And I'm interested in how. Because here's the thing. There was a season when my wife was working on her master's degree and her PhD. I didn't see her very much. And God knows I worked through two PhDs and I was, I was an absentee father because I was working full time and running around with police officers in the middle of the night and doing grad school all day, Saturdays and Sundays.

[Caller 1 (Divorced Dad)]

Yeah.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

And neither of us slept with our bosses and had another kid. We're not perfect. We screwed up other stuff. But like, somehow it sounds like you've taken this on as you're. You're at fault here.

[Caller 1 (Divorced Dad)]

Yeah.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

And I guess what I would tell you is forgiveness is a gift to you. It, it, it, it's. It's this idea that I'm not going to carry around my ex wife's choices any longer. But if you open your eyes every morning and think I'm a failure, I did this to her. I did this to our family. I did this to our kid. It's just going to stay in your chest forever. You get what I'm saying?

[Caller 1 (Divorced Dad)]

Yeah. Yeah. And that's the thing, like, it's funny that you say that because that's kind of how I feel like when we have, you know, when we do transitions with, with him, when we're nice to each other and, you know, things go well, I feel horrible afterwards and I don't know why, and when we're arguing and, you know, I can. It sounds kind of juvenile, I guess, but when, When I. When I feel like she's, I guess, hurting it. The rest of the week for me feels a lot better. And I don't. I don't want. I don't want that to be the baseline for whether I feel like I'm healing or not.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Yeah. So let's. This is going to sound nutty, but let's take her out of the equation.

[Caller 1 (Divorced Dad)]

Okay.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Take her off the table for a second. You're a single dad now of a special needs kid, right?

[Caller 1 (Divorced Dad)]

Yeah.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

That's a label that nobody wants, right?

[Caller 1 (Divorced Dad)]

Right.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

That's an identity. That's a really tough thing. I. I have just been with my daughter. My son has been out of town for a few weeks. My wife was in Texas helping with the flood stuff. I was a single dad for like nine days. And yeah, dude, I would hug you if you were sitting right here. This is your whole life. What I mean. And my daughter doesn't have extra challenges like that. Like you have a hard life. Is that fair?

[Caller 1 (Divorced Dad)]

Yeah.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

And you had a very clear picture of the life you were going to have with somebody that you spent a decade with, right?

[Caller 1 (Divorced Dad)]

Yeah, Correct.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Have you let yourself be fully, like, sobbing, angry yet?

[Caller 1 (Divorced Dad)]

There have been a couple times, you know, this past year and a half, two years. But I think. Hold on, you know, when we.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Let's don't go to butt yet. Let's just sit there for a second, man. And I know that's hard because when you have a special needs kid and you're a single dad all of a sudden, you often don't have the luxury of time for grief, Right. You got to get on to the next thing. You got a mouth that needs feeding, you have a phone call to make. You've got ABA appointments to go. Like you've got stuff, right?

[Caller 1 (Divorced Dad)]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, I do.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Can I just tell you?

[Caller 1 (Divorced Dad)]

Man keeps me. He. He keeps me running. So.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

He does. He does. I know. He keeps you busy, right?

[Caller 1 (Divorced Dad)]

Yeah.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

And then you run through all day, you collapse and you put your head on your pillow and it just consumes you.

[Caller 1 (Divorced Dad)]

Yeah.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Can I tell you may sound crazy, man. You're right to be angry and I want you to begin to build a life so that you have peace in it.

[Caller 1 (Divorced Dad)]

Okay.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Or I guess another way to say that is I don't want you waking up every morning and right by the side of your bed sits a cinder block with your ex wife's name on it. And the first thing you do is you pick up that cinder block and say, I'm going to carry this around today.

[Caller 1 (Divorced Dad)]

Yeah, that's how it feels.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

It is. And it's as though she's still sitting at your kitchen table. She's still sitting in the pickup line. She's still sitting in at the gym. If you decide to go, she sits by you on the couch and just keeps poking at you.

[Caller 1 (Divorced Dad)]

Well, it's been, it's been a little hard just because I, you know, I kept a house in the divorce and it's. Honestly, it's been hard to stay here.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Yeah. So why don't you sell it?

[Caller 1 (Divorced Dad)]

I'm working on it. It needs a lot of work. It was lack of funds and lack of time. It's, it's, it's, it's been through a lot of neglect. So I'm working on it now.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Hold on, hold on, hold on. I want to back up, bro. You are not a bad guy because money was tight. That's not why she left you. And you're not a bad guy because you worked really long hours into Covid with a special needs kid. You're an amazing man. You're an amazing husband and provider. You're an amazing husband. That also on top of 60 hours was like, I'm going to go back to school so I can elevate this family out of this. This minute by minute scarcity that we live in. Get us to another place.

[Caller 1 (Divorced Dad)]

Yeah.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

And you deserved a wife that was going to be a ride or die with you during that time. It was going to pick up the extra slack while you were out there making it happen. Not sleeping with her boss. Yeah. That's what should have happened. And this sounds ridiculous. You're not a child. That when she's struggling that you smile a little bit. I'll tell you, that's like, it's energy not well spent, but there's not something wrong with you. It's a very human reality. Right. Like, I hope this marriage fails. You'd be crazy if you're like, you know what? I hope this marriage is really great for her. You would be. Not you.

[Caller 1 (Divorced Dad)]

Right, Right.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

And that level of anger and frustration and resentment, it just impacts you. It doesn't impact her day. In one bit.

[Caller 1 (Divorced Dad)]

Right?

[Dr. John DeLoney]

And so let me ask you, underneath the fatigue, all you sit down in this house that you say needs a ton of work that I got to do all this stuff to, and then you end up on this loop de loop like because I didn't have enough money and I neglected and I didn't do and I didn't do. Can I just rephrase that? Dude, bro, you have survived. Congratulations, man. Somebody threw a grenade in the middle of your house and you jumped on top of your special needs kid to protect him and you got burned and you got scars and you got beat up, but you survived. So if you've never cut you some slack, hear me saying it, dude, I'm proud of you.

[Caller 1 (Divorced Dad)]

Thank you.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

For the first time ever, I want you to begin to ask yourself, what do I want?

[Caller 1 (Divorced Dad)]

Okay.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

What do I want my life to look like? And you wanted it to be married with two step kids, A beautiful new seven year old son with some big challenges, but who probably loves as big as Texas too. I, I wanted this life. And that's gone now. She blew it up.

[Caller 1 (Divorced Dad)]

Yeah.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

So then asking yourself, and when I say ask yourself, I want you to spend time writing it down. I know dudes don't like to journal, so I'm not going to call it a journal, but spending some time writing stuff down, what do I want this thing to look like? Or here's the better question. Who do I want to become?

[Caller 1 (Divorced Dad)]

Okay.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Am I a guy who's a good steward of my body? Am I the best dad possible? Which means I need to get some classes? Do I want to go back to grad school and get an ABA certification so I could take care of other families who are struggling with a kid who struck, you know, wrestles with autism? Like, who do you want to become? Do you want to stop working nights? And so I'm going to start right now. So the next two years I'm going to get out of this. Working nights or do I love working? Like, I want you to begin to ask you for the first time and as you drive to drop your kid off. This is going to sound so lame. Okay. How verbal is your son?

[Caller 1 (Divorced Dad)]

The past, the past couple years he, he's been getting a lot more verbals. He's not completely full on conversations, but he'll, you know, I understand what he's trying to convey when he talks. And, and he, he does a pretty good job of understanding me as well.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Great. Does he, does he like music or does he like, is there a kind of music he Likes?

[Caller 1 (Divorced Dad)]

Yeah, he likes. He likes just your standard kids music, like, you know, Bluey and stuff like that.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Perfect. So here's what I want to challenge you to do. And this is so lame and so cheesy, but I'm doing this on purpose. When you get in the car with him, to drive him over to your exes, I want you to create an environment of silly and laughter and fun and joy. What does that mean? Put on a soundtrack of his favorite songs. You all come up with some dances in the car. And on your way over, I want you repeating the line in your mind. She doesn't get a vote in how I feel or how this handoff is going to go. And that is not something you just flip a switch on. It's a thing you're going to practice. And so the. The things I'm giving you, dancing, singing, creating an intentional environment of just silly is you practicing. I get to create the environment of the drop off. I get to create the environment of the pickup. I get to choose. I'm not fighting you. I'm not right. I get to choose. Do I want to keep working nights and over the next three years, work to full custody? Because she doesn't even want this kid, like, or she does want this kid. She is a good mom, even though she's a terrible wife. And those two things aren't always the same. And I'm gonna honor that. And I'm not gonna ever talk bad about her. And by the way, if you're living with a guy who also got cheated on by his wife, you're telling him, dude, we're not talking about our wives here at this house. I'm not doing that. I'm not living in that world. Yeah, I'm going on with my.

[Caller 1 (Divorced Dad)]

A lot of that. Okay, so that does go on.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

You have to decide. I'm not going to come home and drink poison and hope that she gets sick from it.

[Caller 2 (Property Manager Brad)]

Okay, I'm out.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

But that also means you have to backfill your life with a different kind of drink. Because you have to drink something, right? And that can be. I'm going to go to the gym. I'm going to start jiu jitsu classes. I'm going to keep getting my. I'm going to keep working on getting my degree. Not so that we can have this life, but so that I can have this different life. Because you, my brother, deserve a life of peace. Got it?

[Caller 1 (Divorced Dad)]

Yes, sir.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Okay, so here's what I'm going to do. I'm going to hook you up with my book Building a non anxious Life. I want you to use that as your roadmap. Okay.

[Caller 1 (Divorced Dad)]

Okay.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

I'm also going to hook you up with Financial Peace University and the Every Dollar app so you can start getting control of your money. Is that cool?

[Caller 2 (Property Manager Brad)]

Yeah.

[Caller 1 (Divorced Dad)]

I actually did start the baby steps and I've been using. I've already been using the app. Yeah.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Okay. I'm gonna hook you up with the premium version of it for free for a year so you can connect it to your bank. I'm proud of you, dude. You're worth a peaceful life. And man, more men need to step up in their lives like you. Working extra, taking full time child care, getting a degree at night. I'm proud of you. It's an honor to get to talk to you. We come back, a woman struggles with how to stay healthy while on her anxiety meds. This show is sponsored by Better Help. These days it feels like there is advice for everything health related. Cold plunges, gratitude journals, screen detoxes. But how do you know if this stuff actually works for you? When I first started this show, I had a morning routine that was clinically insane. Every second of every minute was scripted and prescribed and I realized I was doing all the health things right. But my life was increasingly out of control with the Internet leading to information overload about mental health and wellness. I personally know that it can be a struggle to know what's legitimate and what you should actually do during the day. Here's the truth. Using trusted resources and talking to a live therapist, a real person can get you personalized recommendations and help you break through the noise. If you're thinking about trying therapy, I want you to contact my friends at Better Help. BetterHelp is 100% online therapy, which means it's convenient and affordable and it's easy to get started. Just fill out a short online survey to get matched with a licensed therapist. And as the largest online therapy provider in the world, BetterHelp can provide access to mental health professionals with a diverse variety of expertise. BetterHelp has an App Store rating of 4.9 out of 5 stars based on over 1.7 million clients. Client reviews stop the wellness paralysis and call my friends at BetterHelp. Visit betterhelp.com DeLoney to get 10 off your first month. That's a BetterHelp. H-E-L-P.com DeLoney all right, Chattanooga, let's talk to Christine. What's up, Christine?

[Caller 3 (Christine)]

Hi, Dr. John. How are you?

[Dr. John DeLoney]

I'm great. How are you?

[Caller 3 (Christine)]

I'm doing Good. A little more nervous than I thought I'd be, but looking forward to talking to you.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Well, that's all right. I'm not that great at this thing so we don't have to be nervous. But I gotcha. What's up?

[Caller 3 (Christine)]

Ah, you're good. So my question is how can I be physically healthy while I'm taking medications for my mental health?

[Caller 2 (Property Manager Brad)]

Ah.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Tell me about it.

[Caller 3 (Christine)]

So I have been on antidepressants and anti anxiety medications for most of my adult Life. I'll be 32 this year. So we'll say 10 of the last 15 years I've been taking these medications.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

And do you mind telling me what.

[Caller 3 (Christine)]

You'Re on right now? I'm on a fixer. And then I have Chronicin that I take when I have really bad panic attacks.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Those are both pretty. Those are both very common and deceptively powerful.

[Caller 3 (Christine)]

Yes. I have learned that.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

And I've read horror stories about getting off a fixer. I've seen. I've have a lived experience. Not from me, but for people I love and care about getting off effects or that it's very tough.

[Caller 3 (Christine)]

Yes. And that's something that I'm wanting and hoping I can do at some point.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Okay.

[Caller 3 (Christine)]

But the issue is I've been on several different medications over the years. This was the first one we found that actually helped.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Okay. Great.

[Caller 3 (Christine)]

Because my anxiety symptoms are so physical to the point that I can't function when I'm not on them.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Okay.

[Caller 3 (Christine)]

But with these medications I have gained over 100 pounds.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Yeah.

[Caller 3 (Christine)]

Even though I'm dieting and I'm exercising. And so it feels like I'm stuck and having to choose between either physical health or mental health. And I can't have both. And I'm not sure what to do because I just feel so stuck.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Yeah. Very. So I. I don't know if this makes you feel better, but I hope it does. That's a very common experience. So you're not insane and you're not somehow extra dysfunctional. Okay.

[Caller 3 (Christine)]

Oh, well, it sure feels that way. So thank you.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

I know it does. I know it does. It's a very common catch 22 people find themselves in is these. These meds take away that pain and especially takes away that. It's terrifying when your body betrays you. Right.

[Caller 2 (Property Manager Brad)]

Right.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

When you feel your body taken off on you and you can't control. It's like your car just starts driving itself down the highway a th000 miles an hour and you're taking your foot off the gas and it's still drive. Like it's scary. Right. And so these meds help take that away, but then they come with such wild side effects too. Are you married?

[Caller 3 (Christine)]

Yes.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Okay. Has it also affected. Affect. Affected your libido? Has it affected other things too? Okay. Because another common experience is, especially with these two drugs, is they turn all the switches off. So they also turn off laughter. They turn off joy. They turn off just, they, they just kind of pause you in this. I, I, I, I'm like, I'm thinking of like a middle gap. It takes away all the, the lows, of course, but takes away the highs too. Right?

[Caller 1 (Divorced Dad)]

Yeah.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Or the best way I've heard it's phrased is joy and pain are on the same switch, and so it just shuts the whole system off. What is your doc. Have you talked to your doctor about this dilemma?

[Caller 3 (Christine)]

I have. My doctor firmly believes that I'm doing something wrong with my diet and exercise and that I have control over the situation and that I just need to figure it out.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Okay. What I want to encourage you, if you're at all able to find a new physician, find a new somebody to.

[Caller 3 (Christine)]

Work, I am in the process.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Okay, good. Because that's madness. That is madness. That's like handing somebody. That's like hitting somebody on the foot with a hammer and saying, well, you just gotta, like, It's a, it's a documented side effect.

[Caller 3 (Christine)]

So he's been encouraging me to, to get gastric bypass surgery, which I will not do because there was a period of about 18 months where I was completely off medications altogether and I lost 70 pounds without making any other lifestyle changes.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Sure.

[Caller 3 (Christine)]

So I know it's the medications.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Well, I mean, it's, it's clear in the literature. Right. So I mean, it's, it's, it's not even literature. It's just, I mean, it's just, it's just what? It's just what happens. So, yes, there is the fact that you've gained £100, means you have consumed more calories than you are expending. Right. It's an energy imbalance. There's truth to that. But to hand you this really powerful prescription, multiple prescriptions, and then that have documented side effects of that is the hiss. And then say, well, actually, you need another, another invasive thing on top of the. Find a new physician, please.

[Caller 1 (Divorced Dad)]

Okay, yeah.

[Caller 3 (Christine)]

Yes, I am.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Okay. And so I want you to hear me say, you're under some pretty powerful narcotics, and I'm not telling you to not be on those things. Okay. But I Want you to talk to somebody that will. That will be with you for your whole health or that will walk alongside with you your entire health journey. Okay. You're not crazy. And your pursuit of somebody who will look at you holistically and not just play whack a mole with symptoms is. Is where you need to be. Okay.

[Caller 3 (Christine)]

Okay.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

I hate that that somebody handed something this powerful to you and then blamed you for the outcomes. I really hate that for you. So can I tell you something?

[Caller 3 (Christine)]

Yeah.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Can you hear me? If I. If I'm. I want to be sensitive, but I want to speak real directly to you. Is that okay, you're not gross and you're not dysfunctional and you're not somehow broken. Okay.

[Caller 3 (Christine)]

Okay.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

And I love the fact that you're wanting to stay healthy, both emotionally and mentally. And physically, too. So I think your first. Your first stop is sitting down with a physician and saying, here's been my journey and here's been my experiences on these meds and off these meds. My physical health is. Has a dramatic improvement off these medications. But I. Then my body starts like, my anxiety is really, really powerful. And then the other side of it is these things wipe out the anxiety, but also I lose my joy in life. I just kind of live my life this timeic just in that little bleach, and I'm clearly eating way more than I'm moving. And it's coming at a physical cost, right? Yeah, absolutely. You're worth that. And both of those meds, despite how common they are, are very powerful. And can I also recommend something?

[Caller 3 (Christine)]

Yeah.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Please don't spend one second of time on the forums, on the Internet forums trying to research these things. Okay.

[Caller 3 (Christine)]

Okay.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

It's going to make you nutty. There's whole effects are like subgroups of things, and it can just be kind of wild out in there. Right. Have you done that before?

[Caller 3 (Christine)]

I've done a little bit, but I haven't.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

I'm not hating on you. I'm not hating. I know. It's all. It's all good. I. It's. It. It's not going to solve anything. It's just going to make you further doubt every step that you take in any. In any shape, form, or fashion, because.

[Caller 3 (Christine)]

Everything I saw was, you know, it makes me gain a little bit of weight, but not this much. Well, and again, just make me feel like I'm crazy.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

The. The catch 22 of psychiatric meds are they do work, but they work differently for different people for different reasons in different situations, in different scenarios. And so it's often a constant roulette game of what's going to work for this person in this situation, in this season of life, in this environmental stressors and all that. And so when you go to a forum, you, it just says, this medication is great, this one's bad, this one's the worst. This is. I would. And it, it's stripped of context, it's stripped of individual situations. And depending on which physician you were seeing, sometimes you walk in and say, hey, I'm going through this, this and this and this. And they say, yeah, that's exactly where you should be with what's going on in your life. And then somebody else might see you for three minutes, tag you with some sort of diagnostic, and then hand you a script and send you out the door. And so these forums just strip every nuance, every environmental stressor, every everything. Let me ask you a personal question. What is your body trying to protect you from when you get anxious?

[Caller 3 (Christine)]

What do you mean?

[Dr. John DeLoney]

H. I'm assuming you've wrestled with some sort of anxiety, some sort of panic your whole life.

[Caller 3 (Christine)]

Oh, yeah.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Okay. What has your body been trying to protect you from? Because my basis when I sit down with somebody is I'm assuming that if they're anxious about something, their body's probably right. That anxiety is an alarm system letting you know you're not safe. Panic is your body taking over, saying, you're not getting this message. I'm shutting the whole system down.

[Caller 3 (Christine)]

Depression that, that comes from, from trauma from my childhood.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Okay. Have you ever sat down with a good trauma therapist and said, I want to go down the rabbit hole because I want to heal my nervous system.

[Caller 3 (Christine)]

I've sat down with a couple of different therapists over the years and they've helped me to understand why I have the anxiety. But we haven't really been able to tackle the physical symptoms and how to rewire that.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Okay. I will tell you as somebody who has personally benefited from things like really extreme breathing techniques with a trained professional. It sounds, it sounds counterintuitive, but it was a touch based trauma therapy. I got laid out on a counter and my, the, the trained therapist sat behind me as we went through some of my childhood stuff and she just would touch my shoulder. And I mean it was a whole body process out of the, like Peter Levine's work. It was, it's to say it's astounding. Is the. An understatement. And so there are trauma informed therapists that not only will talk to you about it, but will Help your body heal. And they'll heal, they'll do it alongside you. You have to be willing that the therapy does. It's awful, it's not great, it's not fun. But on the other side of it, it's, I mean, I can't even describe it. I wouldn't have believed it's real had I not experienced it myself. And so deciding I want to get with a trauma informed therapist in my area and I want to go in and when I sit down the first day, I want to say, I have a real traumatic background, I've been through hell, I'm here and I need to learn some trauma informed practices to help my nervous system begin to heal.

[Caller 3 (Christine)]

Okay. And I'm willing to do that.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

I know you are, of course, sure.

[Caller 3 (Christine)]

What that would look like or who, who I would even need to talk to about that.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

But if you, it's, it's getting a local therapist in your area and if you have to drive to Nashville, it's worth a three hour drive, right? But I'll tell you, if you walk around every day scared of your own body that it's going to take off on you, and if you go through your whole life then blaming yourself for the outcomes and somewhat predictable outcomes of some of these medications, it just further fuels this shame cycle you've been on since you were a little girl, right? This idea that I'm, I can't even do medication, right? Like, even the cure, I can't do right. And I just want you to know that's not true. Do you believe me?

[Caller 3 (Christine)]

I believe you.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Okay. You don't have to believe me, but I want that voice rattling around in your mind. And for whatever it's worth, I'm proud of you for caring enough about yourself to go get medication and go sit with a doctor. And I'm proud of you for having enough courage to say, all right, this is coming with some side effects that are as bad, if not worse than my original challenge. Because being 100 pounds overweight will kill you too, Right? And it hurts your knees and your back and your self confidence and your marriage. It helps. It hurts everything. And so I don't want, I don't want the solution to be as potent or more devastating than the actual issue we're trying to solve. Have you, have you had suicidal ideation in your life?

[Caller 3 (Christine)]

In my past, yes. Something recently.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Okay. All right. So the words trauma informed and sitting down with a therapist and saying, I will talk about this, but I'm interested in healing my nervous system can you help me with some practical steps. And if they say, well, no, what we do here is we like to talk about things, then say, thank you so, so much and I'm grateful for your time. Okay. And I'm confident in your area out there in, in, you know, in East Tennessee that there is some good resources. It can be harder to find those kind of resources in rural areas, but that I want you to advocate for yourself in that way and do get with a new physician asap. And if your new physician tells you the exact same thing, then go find a psychiatrist in your area. And again, I know these things are expensive. There's long wait lists and all this. We're not in a huge, huge, huge rush. We want to do this right and we're going to go slow. But yeah, you taking some pretty high, powerful, high powered drugs and gaining weight, that's, that's super common. Having your libido fall off a cliff, super common. There's some really powerful side effects to some of these things. And so keep searching and don't do it on the Internet. Do it with trained professionals. Thank you so, so much for the call, sister. I'm going to send you. Building an unanxious life. It's not going to be your cure all here, but I want you to read it because it norms you're not crazy, you're not broken. Your mind is struggling to keep you safe. And what we want to do is teach our mind in our body. We weren't safe then, but we're working towards safety now in the present here. Thank you so, so much for the call. We come back. A man wonders how to handle tough client conversations. All right, it's time for a quick word about Delete me. Listen, do you feel like your digital footprint is starting to feel like a digital trail leading bad guys and scammers right back to you, to your phone, to your car, to your house. And now scammers are using phishing attacks. That's phishing with a ph, where they try to trick you into giving them something by pretending to know you and to want to help you out. You might get an email or a text or a phone call and the person or the AI bot on the other end sounds like someone who's trying to help you out or, or look out for you. And they're not. They're trying to get all your information with all of these new technological advancements. And by the way, every minute of every day, there's some new technological advancement coming out that's supposed to save us or take our lives from us. No one is really safe. What are we supposed to do with all of this transition happening all at the same time? First, you can control what you can. You can learn about how to be careful online and offline and you can sign up with Delete Me. I use and personally recommend Deleteme because they work in the background to reduce my online presence and get my information out of the hands of creepy data brokers. I don't want people that I don't know having my personal information and trying to sell it to everybody. Deleteme has reviewed over tens of thousands of sites for me and they've removed my data from hundreds of them, which has saved me countless hours and a ton of, of stress. Stop the phishing attacks and the harassment and the other online threats before they start and take control of your digital privacy. With Delete me, go to joindeleteme.com DeLoney today for 20 off the annual plan that comes out to less than nine bucks a month. That's joindeleteme.com DeLoney go check them out. All right, let's go to Spokane, Washington and talk to Brad. What's up, Brad?

[Caller 2 (Property Manager Brad)]

How's it going, Dr. John?

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Doing great, brother. How are you, man?

[Caller 2 (Property Manager Brad)]

Oh, pretty good. Pretty, pretty excited to talk to you today for sure.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

That's awesome. What's up, man?

[Caller 2 (Property Manager Brad)]

So I, yeah, I have a. I've been working with this job for eight years and it's working with people's investment properties, landlords and tenants. And when I first started at this company, there was three of us and we've grown. We actually almost quadrupled in size in the eight years. And in that time frame, I have gained a lot more responsibility and have clients that I've had for, you know, eight, eight years. Five, six, seven, eight years.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

And by clients like clients, you mean tenants like landlords.

[Caller 2 (Property Manager Brad)]

So we actually rep. We actually do represent the, on the landlord side. Okay, so. But both essentially.

[Caller 1 (Divorced Dad)]

Right.

[Caller 2 (Property Manager Brad)]

The more landlords represent. So we're property manager.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Property manager.

[Caller 1 (Divorced Dad)]

Okay.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

You're not attorneys. I thought you were saying represent. I thought you meant you're a lawyers. Okay, so you're a property manager. Okay.

[Caller 1 (Divorced Dad)]

Yeah.

[Caller 2 (Property Manager Brad)]

And we, we, you know, we have legal authority over properties.

[Caller 1 (Divorced Dad)]

Right.

[Caller 2 (Property Manager Brad)]

So a certain amount. Right, so you're correct. As, as we gain more landlords, gain more tenants. So this is, this is a both hand conversation. So as I've got more responsibility and gain more, more client relationships, I find that I'm involved in a lot more conflic. We have the landlords on one side that have a lot of money invested in these properties, so they have a lot of emotion involved. Sometimes we have clients have tens of millions of dollars in properties, and then obviously these are a tenant's home, so they have a lot of emotional buy in. So I find I'm struggling a lot. Sometimes when there's a lot of conflict, I don't feel like I handle it very well.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Tell me where the conflict is. The conflict coming from a landowner is. Or homeowners asking you to do something unethical or mean or cruel or is the, is a tenant not wanting to pay? Or they're whining about everything and the, the owner says, I'm not fixing that. All of it. Okay.

[Caller 2 (Property Manager Brad)]

All of it, yeah. So like I might have a land loaner that's like, hey, like I'm, I'm mad at you because I feel like you did something that I would, you know, I wouldn't do. Or they're there, you know, and we, we legally have to do this thing. And so like, we're like trying to negotiate, like, hey, we have this landlord tenant law that we have to follow and they don't, you know, maybe see it that way, but we've, you know, we have way more experience. And so they're yelling at me on one side and then the tenant on the other side mad. And so I'm, I'm kind of the middleman sometimes. And in the worst case scenario, I'm getting it from both sides and maybe a delicate situation.

[Caller 1 (Divorced Dad)]

Right.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

So a couple of things that happen here and then I'll walk you through like, the, the, the, the details. But you're in a very common place with a growing business. Okay. And it's real easy when you start a business, especially if you start with a couple of buddies or a couple of guys you trust and you're like, dude, we're gonna grind it out and work really hard. And y' all did this, you said eight years ago?

[Caller 2 (Property Manager Brad)]

Yeah, so it was already an established business when I onboarded, but we were small, right. So I was the third person they ever hired.

[Caller 1 (Divorced Dad)]

Perfect.

[Caller 2 (Property Manager Brad)]

The longest employee. I'm a key employee now.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Okay.

[Caller 2 (Property Manager Brad)]

It's me and the original guy who started it. And then we have an owner who has a minority or has a majority interest. That's anyways, details you probably don't need to know.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Well, it is helpful. A very common thing when you take a business and you. 4 exit, 5 exit in 8 years, in less than a decade. Yeah, it's easy to keep operating this much bigger business with the same super scrappy mindset. Or I won't say scrappy, because I always want to have a scrappy mindset, but a real scarcity mindset that you started with just a few years ago. And when you start a company when you're the third hire, you know what business you take all of it. Anyone who will give you a dollar, you take that business and you make it work. Right? Yes. What I want you and is. And I'm asking you to do something you may not have the authority to do, but when you 4x a business, you have bought yourself what I would call margin to begin to fire clients.

[Caller 2 (Property Manager Brad)]

Yeah, we started doing that actually. And so. Yeah, so that.

[Caller 1 (Divorced Dad)]

That.

[Caller 2 (Property Manager Brad)]

That part's been better. Like, we don't.

[Caller 1 (Divorced Dad)]

Like we.

[Caller 2 (Property Manager Brad)]

Yeah, we don't. And I've heard, you know, on the Ramsey side, Dave say, you know, we don't take, you know, crap from other. From people and if they're abusing. So we've kind of.

[Caller 1 (Divorced Dad)]

It.

[Caller 2 (Property Manager Brad)]

It's. It's just.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

I'll take crap.

[Caller 2 (Property Manager Brad)]

Struggling is like, what's that?

[Dr. John DeLoney]

I'll take crap from somebody. I'll. I'll accept somebody.

[Caller 2 (Property Manager Brad)]

Abuse, I guess.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

There you go.

[Caller 2 (Property Manager Brad)]

Yeah.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

You just can't talk to me that.

[Caller 2 (Property Manager Brad)]

We'Re not gonna work with me, those people out. And we've known. And I've learned over the years how to. How to spot that in the front end. It's just sometimes it's just like, I, Like, I just. There's just inevitable.

[Caller 1 (Divorced Dad)]

Right.

[Caller 2 (Property Manager Brad)]

Conflict with.

[Caller 1 (Divorced Dad)]

With the business.

[Caller 2 (Property Manager Brad)]

And it's just like with the clients and maybe a tenant or whatever, and I just. I struggle with it a lot.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

I love that. Okay. So I want you to go through an exercise when you get home tonight. Okay.

[Caller 3 (Christine)]

Okay.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

And it doesn't have to be tonight. I don't know what your schedule is, but I'm saying tonight to be dramatic, but over the next couple of days. Okay.

[Caller 1 (Divorced Dad)]

Yeah.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

And this is going to sound super cheesy, but I want you to do this. And there's a real purpose to it. And I've done this exact thing. Okay.

[Caller 1 (Divorced Dad)]

Okay.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

I want you to get a small box, like half the size of a shoe box.

[Caller 1 (Divorced Dad)]

Okay.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

And I want you to get six index cards. Okay.

[Caller 1 (Divorced Dad)]

Okay.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

And I want you to get a Sharpie. And I want you to sit at the table. Are you married, by the way?

[Caller 2 (Property Manager Brad)]

I am, yeah.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Okay. If you're a gangster, do it with your wife. If you're not, just do it by yourself. Okay.

[Caller 3 (Christine)]

Okay.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

I want you to Write on this, each index card, a person's name. But I want you to write this sentence out on each card. I'm gonna say you're married to a woman, right?

[Caller 1 (Divorced Dad)]

Correct.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Okay. I'm gonna say her name is Janet. I don't know what her real name is.

[Caller 1 (Divorced Dad)]

Okay.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

I want you to write on this card, janet gets a vote in my life. I want you to write it on that card, look at it, and set it in that box. And I want you to go through the exercise of limiting down five to six people in the world who get a vote in your life. These are people that if they call you, you care how they're feeling about something you said. You care. If they call you and give you life direction, you're gonna take it, or if you don't take it, automatically, you're going to take it under really strong advisement.

[Caller 3 (Christine)]

Okay?

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Okay. Now, when I first did this, I. And it stems out of a class I had, and one of my colleagues in my class, her name was Dr. Pearson. She was amazing, but she was one of my colleagues. Well, she was one of my classmates. And it came from a line she gave me once when we were talking about therapy, about counseling. And she said, john, you get to choose who hurts you. And that was a revelation to me. Yeah, people can frustrate me, they can make me angry, they can take away my livelihood, but I get to choose who hurts me. And so when I. On the way home, I was like, okay, this sounds so stupid. It's not like a dumb little counselory thing, but I started going through the exercise, and then I sat down at my kitchen table. Who hurts? Who would I give permission? And here's who I took out of that box. My parents. I love my parents. My parents are wise people, but they don't get to decide what I do with my kids. They don't get to decide where I go to holidays. They don't get to decide how I spend my money. They don't get a vote. I love them. I honor them, but they don't get a vote. I have tons of peripheral buddies. I'm just a guy that likes everybody. And I realized I was giving everybody a vote. My students all got a vote. If they were like, you suck, Dr. Deloney. I didn't sleep for two nights, and.

[Caller 2 (Property Manager Brad)]

Then it was like, that's where I'm at.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Y' all don't get a vote. Man, I. I get that you're frustrated. I get that you don't like the decision I made. I get that I screwed Something up, but you don't get to hurt me. And it was starting this exercise, and I tried to get it down to six, and then this was super gangster. Not all of them. I think five out of the six. I called them and said, hey, I just want you to know I'm giving you a vote in my life, and if you. If you ever called me out on something, I'm gonna. I'm gonna. I'm gonna let. I'm going to take it under advisement. I'm going to do that thing. And four of my buddies were just bros, and they were like, this is a weird phone call, dude. And I was like, I know, man, I know. And we all laughed. But to this day, if one of them calls me and says, hey, I need to talk to you about something serious, man, I stop everything. But it was me first going there, and then I had to realize, oh, I'm want to please people. I want to be liked so badly that I give everybody a vote in my life. And when I took unhooked the rest of the world from that inside the inside of my chest, it was freeing. And then it allowed me to go in and sit with people who are mad at me, who are frustrated, who think I'm the worst or whatever, and I got to stay present there. I didn't immediately unhook and try to start solving all their problems. Does that register?

[Caller 2 (Property Manager Brad)]

Yeah, it does for sure, because, yeah, that's where I struggle is, like, I tend to, like, you know, want everyone to be like. Like me. And I tend to be a people pleaser. And so. Yeah, definitely. Yeah.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

So the next step is when I do that exercise, I get to then begin to practice sitting with somebody who's mad at me or listening to them on the phone. My friend Jefferson Fisher, I love the way he phrases this. It's like an old meditation practice, but he says it so perfect. My first word will always be a breath.

[Caller 2 (Property Manager Brad)]

Yeah, I'm actually reading this book right now.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Okay.

[Caller 1 (Divorced Dad)]

He's.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

He's the. He's the goat. He's so great. But my first word is going to be my breath. And that's just my reminder that I don't have to respond out of frustration. I don't have to respond out of immediacy. My first thing I'm going to do is exhale. And if they don't get a vote, then I get to decide when I respond, how I respond, and with what character and integrity I respond. Yeah, I'm not going to fight you. I am not going to Violate the law for you. And if your sink isn't fixed, I get. That's the worst. I'm sorry. If I have to refund half year rent because I blew it or me and my team blew it and I'm going to get it from the landlord on the other end. I'm going to do that because it's right by you, like, but you see how it just separates you from the whole thing. Yeah, but it's going back to that people pleaser part and doing the exercise of who am I giving a vote to? I'm going to begin to say the words. You don't get a vote. If I'm about to get a call from somebody, I'm going to say it out loud. You don't get a vote. Just remember this guy didn't get a vote. When I hang up the phone and they've been, they just read me the riot act. I'm going to exhale. They don't get a vote. I can be a great man and have blown something professionally. I can be a great guy and not a great husband sometimes. Right. And it's coming to that separation. But it, it's a practice. It's a practice that you are going to begin to practice leading with your breath. Let me look into this. I'll call you back. Do you want me to solve your problem or do you want to continue yelling or, hey, I'm gonna, I'm gonna hang up the phone. I don't talk to people who are screaming at me. When you're ready to call me back, let me call you back in 30 minutes. You call me back in an hour. And by the way, some people get even angrier when you do that because it exposes how out of control they are and how in control you are. And sometimes I have to pretend to be in control and I hang up the phone and I'm enraged. It's cool. It's fine. I'm just practicing. But I'm just going to lead with my breath. And as Jefferson does so well, I'm not as good as him by a hundred miles. But being able to say like, hey, you're yelling really loud. I can't. I'm having a hard time hearing you. You're really angry. I can hear it. Are you angry about this? You angry about something else? And at some point, you sit down with your boss and say, we're going to let this client go because we're not going to take abuse. Our company has enough margin. We're a big enough company. And we have enough dignity and respect for ourselves that we're not going to take that. But it doesn't sound like that's where you are. It's not like you got a pretty amazing boss. It sounds like more like this has been happening your whole Life. And you're 30 and you're a husband, you're a dad, you're a business owner. I'm worth standing up for myself and I'm worth not everybody on planet earth having a vote. And you are right. Thanks for call, brother. We'll be right back. Hey, it's Deloney for Hallow, the number one prayer meditation app in the world. Right now, everybody is juggling work, family and a million other things. And in this chaos, we often forget to pause and reflect. But creating peace in your life doesn't just happen. We can't just stumble our way into reflection and peace and calm. We have to be intentional about it. We have to choose it. And that's where Hallow comes in. Hallow provides you amazing opportunities to slow down and reconnect with what matters most, you and your spiritual life. One of the best features on Hallow is the daily reflections with Jeff Cavins. Because he helps you connect scripture to real life joys and real life challenges. Or if you're struggling with anxiety and feeling overwhelmed, Hallow offers mental health meditations and prayers that I have personally found useful. From healing emotional wounds to establishing healthy habits, these guided prayers give you words of comfort and longing when you're all out of things to say. If you're ready to find some peace in the chaos and some purpose in your life and to learn how to be intentional about it, check out Hallow right now. When you sign [e-mail] Deloney, you get three months of the app for free. That's three months of the app for free. Go to Hallow. H A l l o w.com deloney go check them out. All right, Kelly, am I the problem?

[Caller 4 (Jennifer)]

All right. This is from Jennifer in Webster, New York and she writes my in laws are alcoholics. So we decided to put some boundaries in which included our child not going over there because apparently she said my father in law can get some especially aggressive outbursts. My mother in law, who is also an alcoholic, has been invited to different celebrations and events that we have in our home. More times than not. She declines because we don't drink so there won't be any alcohol. But then later she'll text me and want pictures from the event and I don't want to send them Because I feel like I am enabling her by. So what she's saying is like, here you can see the fun event. It's okay that you don't come. The email's kind of jumbled, so I'm having to paraphrase a little bit. But then she doesn't want to send her the picture. She's like, no, how about you just come and not drink? But mother in law doesn't want to do that. So my. But I ultimately feel like I'm enabling her, enabling the drinking. But I also kind of feel like a jerk. My husband is all on board with us not sending her anything. In fact, he has no communication with them at all. So I feel like she uses me. So she texts me to get the information in the pictures and doesn't talk to him. Am I the problem or should I just let it be?

[Caller 1 (Divorced Dad)]

Hmm.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

I'm always going to take the lead of the actual child of dysfunctional, emotionally unregulated parents. So if husband is saying we don't have contact with them, we don't do life with them, then I'm gonna follow that lead and I'm not gonna let mom end around and be manipulative. On the other hand, if we have two parents who have whatever addiction, whatever struggles and they are opting out of putting themselves in situations and they want photos, I don't have a problem with that either. So I, I like the idea of following husband. He's like, dude, I don't talk to them, we don't do life with them. I'm out on them. Then. Yes. I'm not going to respond to text messages. Any communication is going to go through him. Or if my wife, let's say my in laws were bananas, my in amazing. But I would in my. One of my in laws was trying to bomb me with requests and stuff. I'm going to go through my wife on that stuff and vice versa. So I like that she's got to feel. Deal with her guilt on it. But when it comes to like, I feel like I'm enabling, I don't think so. I think somebody's saying, I don't want to be a part of something if there's not alcohol. And that might be an excuse to say, I don't trust myself. I don't want to be around like whatever. I don't mind sending pictures, but that's just kind of my take. And what do you think?

[Caller 4 (Jennifer)]

I agree. I think that there's no harm in sending the pictures, but I definitely agree with the fact that it's his family I'm following his lead that's how I think I would do it and if she feels manipulated he needs to be to have the one that has the.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Conversation right and if he's saying I'm not even having conversations I can't hear him then I'm just not gonna respond.

[Caller 4 (Jennifer)]

To texts Exactly I think that lead but I don't have any problem with sending grandma and grandpa pictures and there doesn't have to be any communication now I'm just sending these and that's it.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Yeah that's a good call So I don't know there's a problem here other than maybe wrestling with your own guilt that you wanted this to look a certain way you wanted to marry somebody who and have great in laws who would always be present in your kids life and etc and right now you don't have that and you may never have that and so you're trying to build that world and it's just hard so thanks for the call or thanks for the email Love you guys Stay in school be nice to each other bye.