How Do I Tell My Wife We Don’t Agree on Religion?

Summary

Podcast Summary: The Dr. John Delony Show – "How Do I Tell My Wife We Don’t Agree on Religion?"

Podcast Information:

• Title: The Dr. John Delony Show
• Host/Author: Ramsey Network
• Description: The Dr. John Delony Show is a caller-driven program offering real talk on relationships and mental health challenges. Listeners are encouraged to participate by sending questions via voicemail or email.
• Episode: How Do I Tell My Wife We Don’t Agree on Religion?
• Release Date: November 18, 2024

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Introduction

In this episode, Dr. John Deloney delves into the sensitive topic of religious disagreements within a marriage. He addresses real-life scenarios from listeners, providing compassionate and practical advice to navigate such challenging conversations without jeopardizing the relationship.

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Caller Story: Mark from Greensboro, North Carolina (00:05 - 11:06)

Background:
Mark, a 53-year-old man married for ten years, reaches out to discuss his discomfort with his wife's persistent attempts to involve him more deeply in her religious practices. Despite loving his wife dearly, Mark feels uneasy about the religious differences and fears that addressing them might hurt her feelings or disappoint her.

Key Points Discussed:

• Emotional Conflict: Mark struggles with balancing his love for his wife and his discomfort with religious expectations.
• Communication Barriers: Fear of disappointing his wife prevents Mark from expressing his true feelings about religion.
• Underlying Issues: Dr. Deloney identifies a larger issue of honesty and openness in the marriage, emphasizing that avoiding conflict can lead to greater problems down the line.

Notable Quotes:

• Mark (00:05): "She's trying to open my mind to religion more. It kind of makes me feel uncomfortable..."
• John Deloney (04:10): "Conflict deferred is conflict amplified... secrets will kill you and will kill a marriage."

Advice Provided:

• Honest Dialogue: Dr. Deloney encourages Mark to have an open and honest conversation with his wife, expressing his feelings without fear of hurting her.
• Understanding Motivations: He suggests understanding her deeper fears about his spiritual well-being, which may be driving her religious focus.
• Finding Common Ground: Emphasizes the importance of respecting each other's beliefs and finding ways to support one another without compromising personal values.

Conclusion: Dr. Deloney advises Mark to prioritize honesty to preserve the integrity of his marriage, suggesting practical steps like attending church together without necessarily adopting the same beliefs.

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Caller Story: Ann from Sioux Falls, South Dakota (19:06 - 28:47)

Background:
Ann seeks guidance on how to support a friend who is being abused by his spouse but refuses to seek help. The friend has been experiencing abuse for over a year, and Ann feels overwhelmed by the situation, impacting her mental well-being.

Key Points Discussed:

• Emotional Toll: Ann expresses frustration and emotional strain from trying to help her friend without seeing any positive change.
• Boundaries in Support: Dr. Deloney discusses the importance of setting boundaries to protect one's own mental health while trying to support others.
• Intervention Strategies: He presents two paths—either aggressively intervene (e.g., contacting authorities) or establish clear boundaries with the friend.

Notable Quotes:

• Ann (19:12): "I just don't know how to continue to hear all of this, give advice and then have nothing happen with the advice that I give."
• John Deloney (21:45): "If someone's in physical danger or considering dying by suicide, everything stops."

Advice Provided:

• Aggressive Intervention: For cases involving immediate physical danger or suicidal ideation, Dr. Deloney advocates for direct intervention, such as contacting authorities to ensure the friend's safety.
• Setting Boundaries: For ongoing abuse without immediate danger, he suggests communicating clear boundaries, possibly reducing contact if the friend refuses to seek help.
• Community Support: Encourages creating support systems within the community or church to provide tangible assistance, such as financial aid for safe housing.

Conclusion: Dr. Deloney underscores the necessity of prioritizing safety over maintaining the friendship when abuse is involved. He advises Ann to either fully support her friend by facilitating immediate help or to distance herself to protect her own well-being.

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Caller Story: Kathleen from Atlanta (50:09 - 54:58)

Background:
Kathleen shares her experience organizing social gatherings for fellow stay-at-home moms. After hosting a successful brunch with ten attendees, her subsequent event saw a significant drop to only two participants. She also poses the question, "Am I the problem?"

Key Points Discussed:

• Social Efforts: Kathleen's proactive approach to creating community among stay-at-home moms.
• Inconsistent Participation: The fluctuating attendance highlights challenges in maintaining engagement.
• Self-Doubt: Kathleen questions whether her efforts might be causing the decline in participation.

Notable Quotes:

• Kathleen (50:39): "I heard you tell a caller who was lonely that he should just invite people over..."
• John Deloney (50:48): "There’s nothing harder than keep trying... sometimes one of the two that decides to keep going, that's the worst."

Advice Provided:

• Persistence: Dr. Deloney commends Kathleen's efforts and encourages her to continue despite setbacks, emphasizing that building a community often requires persistence.
• Understanding Dynamics: He suggests that varying reasons might contribute to attendance fluctuations, such as changing personal circumstances among participants.
• Self-Compassion: Reassures Kathleen that her intentions are positive and that occasional setbacks are part of the process.

Conclusion: Kathleen is encouraged to remain steadfast in her efforts to foster community, recognizing that not every event will be equally successful but that her persistence is valuable and not indicative of her being the problem.

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Closing Remarks and Additional Content

Advertisements Skipped: In alignment with the summary guidelines, all advertisement segments for products like Organifi, Cozy Earth, Hallow, and Poncho Outdoors have been omitted to focus solely on the content-driven discussions.

Final Thoughts: Dr. John Deloney wraps up the episode by reiterating the importance of honest communication and setting appropriate boundaries in relationships. He emphasizes that addressing difficult topics openly can lead to stronger, more authentic connections.

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Conclusion

This episode of The Dr. John Delony Show offers insightful advice on navigating religious disagreements within marriage, supporting friends in abusive relationships, and building community among stay-at-home parents. Dr. Deloney's compassionate approach and practical strategies provide valuable guidance for listeners facing similar challenges.

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Notable Quotes with Timestamps:

• Mark (00:05): "She's trying to open my mind to religion more. It kind of makes me feel uncomfortable..."
• John Deloney (04:10): "Conflict deferred is conflict amplified... secrets will kill you and will kill a marriage."
• Ann (19:12): "I just don't know how to continue to hear all of this, give advice and then have nothing happen with the advice that I give."
• John Deloney (21:45): "If someone's in physical danger or considering dying by suicide, everything stops."
• Kathleen (50:39): "I heard you tell a caller who was lonely that he should just invite people over..."
• John Deloney (50:48): "There’s nothing harder than keep trying... sometimes one of the two that decides to keep going, that's the worst."

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For More Information:

Listeners interested in sharing their stories or seeking personalized advice can reach out via voicemail at 844-693-3291 or email [e-mail].

Transcript

[Mark]

She's trying to open my mind to religion more. It kind of makes me feel uncomfortable and I really don't want to tell her. I don't feel the same way about it as you do because I really don't want to disappoint her or hurt her feelings.

[John Deloney]

I think your willingness to be open is going to help a whole bunch of people, but I think there's something bigger at play here that's really important. Okay. What up? What's going on? This is John with the documentary John Deloney Show. So, so grateful that you're with us, talking about your mental and emotional health, talking about your relationships, your marriages, who you're dating, your kids, all of it. For the last two plus decades, I've been sitting with hurting people, trying to figure out what's the next right move. And I'd love to have you on this show if you want to be on the show. It's real people going through real challenges. Go to john deloney.com it's-l o n y. Go to john deloney.com ask a s k and fill out the little form and it will shoot a. I don't know how it does in the Internet. People figured out a way it sends Kelly an email and Taylor an email and they'll work it through and hollaback girl at you. Or you can give me a buzz at 1-844-693-3291 and you can leave a message and we'll get back to you. Love to have you on the show. Let's go out to Mark in Greensboro, North Carolina. What's up, Mark?

[Mark]

I'll get right to it. Let me preface my question by saying I love my wife and I, we've been married for 10 years. I love her just as much now as I ever did. Fact, I tell people I won the wife lottery when I met this woman.

[John Deloney]

Gross, Mark.

[Mark]

I know, I know. We've been 10 years. We're both in our mid-50s. She is 56. I'm 53.

[John Deloney]

Okay.

[Mark]

My question is we differ on religion. I don't really like to bring it up with her. I guess I don't want to disappoint her with how I feel about religion. I don't use religion as much in my everyday life as she does. And she, I wouldn't say she tries to force her religion on me. She tries to. I guess in her mind, she's trying to open my mind to religion more. And it kind of makes me feel uncomfortable. And I really don't want to tell her that, you know, I don't feel the same way about it as you do because I really don't want to disappoint her or hurt her feelings, man.

[John Deloney]

Thanks for the call, dude. I think your willingness to be open is going to help a whole bunch of people because a, you're not alone when it comes to the religion conversation. But I think there's something bigger at play here that's really important. Okay. And that is you have this person who you love. In fact, you love talking about how much you love her.

[Mark]

Exactly.

[John Deloney]

And you somehow have gotten the wires crossed in your mind. That is telling the truth and being fully present with her is somehow going to lessen her or hurt her.

[Mark]

Right. Well, I grew up, I call it. I grew up as a part time Catholic, you know, Eastern Christmas.

[John Deloney]

Sure.

[Mark]

You know, my father, he basically went just to socialize, basically. She grew up in a Pentecostal holiness, if that'll tell you anything.

[John Deloney]

Yeah.

[Mark]

So, yeah, she was, you know, jumped down the aisle, speaking in tongues, the whole nine yards. And, you know, we just don't see eye to eye on that stuff. And, you know, she'll start asking me questions about my faith or, you know, like getting baptized or have I. Have I, you know, brought God in my life? Have I made Jesus my, you know, savior? And I don't know how to answer that. And she'll like, she'll. She'll like, quiz me sometimes on theology, I guess, and it just kind of makes me feel uncomfortable and I really don't know how to tell her, Babe, you know, I. This isn't, you know, I guess I go along to get along right now.

[John Deloney]

Yeah.

[Mark]

If that makes any sense.

[John Deloney]

Yeah. There's an old, there's an old saying in counseling that is conflict deferred is conflict amplified. So here's what's coming. Here's what's coming for you. You're going to keep getting along to get along, going along to get along. And one day she's going to get the wrong kind of bananas and you are going to punch a hole through the cabinet and it's going to. Because it's going to have built up so much. So my question for you is this. What's another thing you're kind of. Yeah. You just don't talk to her about.

[Mark]

Well, music.

[John Deloney]

Okay.

[Mark]

You know, we have different. She listens to Caleb all the time. And you know, no offense to the listeners out there, I think Caleb, music is rather cheesy.

[John Deloney]

Who do you listen to? Who do you love?

[Mark]

Oh, I'M a. I'm a child of the 80s, man. Iron Maiden, the Ramones.

[John Deloney]

I would hug you if you were sitting here right now.

[Mark]

Well, you know, truth be told, I was watching one of your episodes other day, and I saw the Monsters of Metal album behind.

[John Deloney]

I had that exact album because you're awesome.

[Mark]

That's right.

[John Deloney]

What's another thing you don't tell her?

[Mark]

I have the vet movies for her.

[John Deloney]

Okay.

[Mark]

You know, she gets real comfortable. Uncomfortable with sex, sex scenes, nudity, profanity.

[John Deloney]

What's another thing you don't tell her?

[Mark]

Gosh, we're. We're pretty open about everything, honestly.

[John Deloney]

We really are. That was amazing. We're pretty open about everything except for entertainment values, faith and eternity.

[Mark]

Yeah.

[John Deloney]

Right. Okay. So here. Here's my. My bigger thing is this. Secrets will kill you and will kill a marriage.

[Mark]

Right? Yeah, I. I really don't want any secrets with her. I really don't.

[John Deloney]

I know. And so that's why I'm so grateful that you're calling. And religion is such hard. It's such a third rail topic. And that's why I was pointing at other things, because here's what's underneath your marriage. I'm. Or let me say this. I'm guessing. Okay, I'm taking a wild guess. I remember having some theological conversations with a buddy one time. And my theological stance is on some things. I find myself. I. I find myself all over the place, as my good friend Brent Bailey calls it. Like, I. I feel like an odd man out sometimes. And I remember having a debate and going back and forth and it was getting kind of heated. And then this guy, so awesome, man, he came back a couple days later, he said, hey, I need you to know something. I think you're real smart and I like debating this stuff and just know my passion comes from. I'm worried for your soul's eternity. And here's the thing. He wasn't playing right. And I gave him a hug. Here's why. If a. If. If a piano was falling out of a window and I looked at him and said, I don't believe that. I don't think that piano is actually falling. I would hope he would love me enough to try his best to shove me out of the way with two hands to save my life. And when he told me that he was coming from that position, it recentered everything because it wasn't for him just about who's right and who's wrong and what's this interpretation and like, what's this, you know, theological. It Wasn't about that. He was telling me, hey, dude, I love you now, and I love you into the future. And the way I see this is, man, you might be making some choices and have some thoughts on some things that may cost you your eternity. And I guess there's a way I could have made fun of him for that. I was really deeply touched by that. And so I tell you that story to tell you this. You and your wife, I think, are talking around the edges, and I would love for you to sit down and say, hey, I love you. And I've been keeping some things secret from you because I don't want to hurt your feelings. But I also think that by trying not to hurt your feelings, I'm actually dishonoring you. I'm just not being honest. And so you asked me about my relationship with Jesus. You asked me about this. You asked me about going to church. What are you really asking me? What are you scared about? What are you worried about? And let her talk from there, because if she's going to bed every night, grasping her pillow tight, like, just holding it so tight, and saying, dear God, please don't let the man I love die and burn in hell forever, because that's how she happens to see theology, man, that's a different conversation than, she's just bugging you about going to church. I'm guessing that she's not just nagging you to try to control you.

[Mark]

No, she's. I don't feel she is. I think she, you know, she wants me to be. To live with her eternally.

[John Deloney]

There. You know, There you go.

[Mark]

She. Yeah, and she does. I guess she does fear for mine. I quote, unquote, mortal soul.

[John Deloney]

Okay, that conversation. That conversation is way more important to me then. I can't believe you're saying bad words. And have you even like those conversations? All right, whatever.

[Mark]

Yeah.

[John Deloney]

The one about hate, I. I see a truck coming right at you, and I'm trying to drag you out of the way of it.

[Mark]

Right.

[John Deloney]

That, to me, is a. Is a. Is her trying to love you as much as possible.

[Mark]

I. I know I can't. You know, I. I feel the love when she tells me this stuff. Yeah. You know, and it's funny because, you know, we both get up early in the morning to get ready for work, and she does her daily devotion in the morning, and I'm just down there watching YouTube videos, you know?

[John Deloney]

Well, you. That will send you to hell, Mark. I'm not gonna lie.

[Mark]

I know, I know.

[John Deloney]

Yeah. That will make your brain turn to goo with.

[Mark]

With gas britches on.

[John Deloney]

There you go. But I. I think. I think. I think getting to the deeper conversation and then you being honest when she sits down and says, I'm worried about your soul forever, and you having the courage to say I love you right now in the here and now. That's not how I see it. And I want to find a path forward for you because I want to love you with all I got right now while we're here. And, like. And if you have to ask yourself, like, I'll go to church with you, Hunter, like, I'm not gonna. I don't want you to do this really important thing by yourself. It's no skin off my nose. I'm gonna go with you. I don't like. That's cool. It's important thing that you really love. I'll do that with you. I'll go to your Bible study. I'm not gonna get up every single day and do X, Y, and Z.

[Mark]

Right.

[John Deloney]

And I think there's something to be said for putting it to bed. Because I want you to choose guilt over resentment. Because what's gonna happen is you're gonna say nothing. You're gonna say nothing, you're gonna say nothing, and then you're gonna explode. And I don't think that's gonna be fair for her. Or you're going to explode internally. It's going to kill you. And that won't have been fair to her either.

[Mark]

Exactly.

[John Deloney]

Right.

[Mark]

No, I. Yeah. I want to be. I want to be around as long as I possibly can with her.

[John Deloney]

Yeah.

[David]

Yeah.

[John Deloney]

And she's going to say, well, then why don't you just go get baptized? You can be with me forever. And you'll be like, all right, so. But you get to articulate that. But I think setting the conversation up, and maybe it's. It's as easy as saying, honey, we're going to go to dinner and we're going to talk about Jesus tonight. And she might light up like a Christmas tree and be like, not like that. Right?

[Mark]

Oh, yeah, she would. She would love it.

[John Deloney]

I know. But. But I want you to get beneath the. The. What do you think about this? And why haven't you done this? And I don't want you to say that. And then when it comes to the art stuff, when it comes to movies, it comes to music, I've learned in my house. My wife loves bluegrass. I like loud, wild music. And we have together found the Avett Brothers. We have together found Andrew Peterson. We've together Found Frank Turner. We found some of these, which is funny. One of those is a very Christian artist. One of those is an atheist artist. And one of those is very. What I would call very spiritual guys. But they are maniacal, thoughtful, brilliant, and kind of bluegrassy and kind of punk rock and kind of all of it all together. So we have found some common ground. We've worked hard at it. And my wife is going to a play this weekend by herself. Just wasn't my jam. I'm taking my son to a rock and roll show he does not want to go to, and I'm making him like, you have to go to this thing with me. And so we do some things on our own like that. And we don't hold that against each other because it's not a matter of I don't love you. And, dude, I go to country music concerts with her sometimes because she's my friend, and I like hanging out with my friend. And, man, I'll tell you what, the few times she's gone to, like, punk rock mosh pit shows with me and she gets up against the wall, I've looked over and, dude, she is smiling ear to ear. Oh, right. But not because of the music. Not because she suddenly feels super safe with a bunch of maniacal morons crashing into each other, but she sees how much fun her great friend and husband is having, right? And it's a matter of, like, you get what I'm saying? There's a service orientation to this. And it's not all the time, and it's not forever. And I don't ask her all the time, and I don't ask her forever. It's this. No, that's good. I'm in on this one. I'm in on this one. And again, those are on the periphery. The. When it comes to rest of your life stuff, when it comes to religion, when it comes to I want you to believe what I believe because I like. I want you to believe what I believe because of power. Or I want you to believe what I believe because I'm worried about, like, what happens to you for the next millennia. Those are two different conversations, man. And one of those is like, whatever, dude. And one of those is, thank you for loving me so much. That's not how I see it. And let's make peace where reality is not in all these proxy wars about what we're dressed in and what we're doing. And then I want you to be as grace graceful as possible with what's really true. Can you go to church with her. Because if you can, that's awesome. You don't have to buy everything the preacher's saying, but if you. Man, what a gift, right? If you just. If it's a core violation. Put that on the table. Put that on the table. And also put on the table. Honey, I'm not at this for the foreseeable future. I'm not going to get baptized. I'm not going to. I'm not. I'm not interested in this. So you bringing it up all the time isn't helping. But I would love to go to church with you. Can I just start there? Can we do that? And so, man, thanks for the call. I. It's an honor to talk to you, man, because I know that you love your wife, and I know that you also want to stay true to yourself. And most of us in our 40s and 50s and 60s were taught that the way you honor somebody is to bury yourself. And I don't think that's true. I think the way we honor people, especially that we're married to, is we show up our full self. But we are careful and cognizant and honoring and respectful enough to tell. To show our full self in a way that can be seen and heard. And she gets a right to grieve. She wants to see you in eternity, and you're telling her, I don't think I'm gonna be there. I don't even think eternity's real. And I think she gets to grieve that. And then you'll get to make choices about what your marriage looks like every single morning. By the way, stop starting your morning on YouTube, dude, unless you're watching this show, hit subscribe button. Please hit subscribe. And like. And all those things. Stop. Go outside, go for a walk, or just sit by your wife and read. Try to rot your brain. Thanks for the call. We'll be right back. All right, it's time to talk about organifi. Listen, I want you to stop for a minute and just say thank you to your body. Our bodies do so much for us. They move us around. They care for us. They work all day to try to keep us safe. They alert us to perceive dangers. Our bodies are always working for us. And if we're honest, we may not always treat our bodies very well. I'm working to get better at being a good steward of my body. 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[Ann]

Hi. How are you?

[John Deloney]

I'm good. How are you?

[Ann]

Good. Thank you for taking my call.

[John Deloney]

Of course. What's up?

[Ann]

All right. How do I best support a friend who is being abused by their spouse and refuses to seek help?

[John Deloney]

Oh, man. Tell me about it. Whatever you're comfortable talking about. Yeah, I don't want to. I don't want you to just talk. Tell me as much as you feel comfortable telling me.

[Ann]

Okay. It's been going on for over a year and for a really long time, she didn't want to tell me what was going on. But, you know, I mean, it's a good friend of mine. So obviously I knew something was up. Phone conversation stopped, text stopped, everything like that. And so just in the way I am, I asked specific questions and got to the bottom of it. And I guess probably physical abuse is happening over a year now, but there's been abuse in this relationship the whole time. You know, it's just kicked up. But I. I just don't know how to continue to hear all of this, give advice and then have nothing happen with the advice that I give. And I understand that I can't make somebody do something. Just it's almost now affecting me.

[John Deloney]

Absolutely is. Yeah. Yeah.

[Ann]

So I just don't know what to do. I don't know how to. I don't know if I, like, stop talking to her because it's so weighing on me every day. But then I don't want to leave her, obviously. Right. But I just don't know what to do. And I'm pretty good with compartmentalizing. My husband and I are in ministry. We hear a lot of stories, but it hits different when it's somebody that you love.

[John Deloney]

Yeah. I'm going to give you two paths here. Okay. Path One is the path that I take. And I'm not saying that it's right. I'm saying I've just heard so many of these stories over the years that I had to come to a place where I've got to be able to sleep at night. And I'm willing to cash out a friendship to keep people safe.

[Ann]

Okay.

[John Deloney]

And so. But then I'm going to give you another alternative. That may be more feasible for most people. Okay. The two things that I've got no quarter for and what I mean by no quarter is that are stop the presses for me is if somebody's in physical danger or somebody is considering dying by suicide.

[Ann]

Right.

[John Deloney]

Everything stops. And if I've got a friend in your situation that consistently says, yeah, I got hit again last night, I got beat up again last night, there comes a moment when I sit down and I say, if you call me and tell me about getting hit again, my next thing is I'm hanging up the phone, I'm calling 911 because I can't stand by and watch this. And there's just a period at the end of that sentence you wouldn't do that. You swear you wouldn't tell. I don't care what I swore, I don't care what I promised. I would rather you be safe and alive and hate me than have this happen again. And honestly, that is just how I've made peace with it. And there's probably, quite honestly a few people in my life who have no longer tell me things because they know how I'm going to respond.

[Ann]

Right.

[John Deloney]

But I also think that there are people in my life who tell me things that they wouldn't otherwise. Because the thought of when, when you're abused, it takes. Physically abused, it takes so much of your soul. I mean your body, it just does different things physiologically.

[Ann]

Yeah.

[John Deloney]

And so the thought that I can see past this ending, your body doesn't. Isn't able to see it on the road like that. Your body's just trying to survive.

[Ann]

Right, Right.

[John Deloney]

So it can't see what freedom looks like and what two years after an awful messy divorce and court records and somebody going to jail or somebody going to court and not going to jail even worse. Right. Which happens a lot in domestic views abuse. They can't see on the other side of it, two years from now, being able to walk into their own home for the first time in years and just exhale and feel safe.

[Ann]

Yeah.

[John Deloney]

Right. So I know that enough about you to say, I'm willing to, I'm willing to push this domino to knock the whole thing over because I can't stand by and help. So that, that's, that's me. Okay. I think a broader conversation about boundaries is sitting down with coffee or sitting down and having an in person conversation saying I can't continue to show up to these meetings and have you getting beat up and beat up and beat up and you tell you saying you don't need to do anything. I can't carry that anymore.

[Ann]

Right.

[John Deloney]

Either I will go first and I will walk through hell with you, or I'm going to ask you to stop bringing this cinder block and asking me to carry it for you, but you're not willing to set it down.

[Ann]

Mm.

[John Deloney]

And I think what you're trying to do is to both love your friend and keep your friends safe and hold the outcome. And you rarely can do all three of those things.

[Ann]

Right, Right.

[John Deloney]

What has your conversations been like so far?

[Ann]

I mean, I'm a plan person, so I've usually set up like, okay, well, these are the steps we should take. Let's set aside money, let's have a to go bag, let's have a safe place to go, like those kind of things, ways to get away, stuff like that. And I just think that. I think that she's. Well, I think she's scared of the change. Right. Like, because even if she's in it and it's awful, sometimes we stay in stuff because it's normal.

[John Deloney]

Yeah.

[Ann]

So the idea of the change is probably what's scaring her. But, like, I'm. I think that's probably what bothers me the most. I'm good with boundaries. Like, I'm a Henry Cloud kind of person. I am good with boundaries. I got. I have this figured out in my day to day life, but this one is just like, usually if I give advice and it just keeps, you know, falling on deaf ears, I walk away. But like, her life, you know, I'm. I'm worried about her life.

[John Deloney]

And I think, go back, go back to the reason we give advice. Why do we give advice? Because we want to give somebody a path out.

[Ann]

Yeah.

[John Deloney]

We want to give. We want somebody to be better off after interacting with us than before. And if advice isn't that path, then I'm going to jump over the advice path and I'm going to call the authorities because my friend's getting beat to death in their own house.

[Ann]

Yeah, right.

[John Deloney]

And here's another thing I said. Often people who are in being physically abused, it's hard to get out of that mindset and to look down the road. That's not always true. I remember a harrowing conversation with somebody with a woman once, and I was just being flippant, like, you need to leave. And I'll never forget, she looked at me and said, and then what? I can't eat. I don't have a place to go. It just rattled off and it was like, oh, man. She had Done the calculations in her mind.

[Ann]

Yeah.

[John Deloney]

And she's economically trapped or she may go, but she's going to leave behind a six year old and she'd rather get hit than the six year old get hit.

[Ann]

Right.

[John Deloney]

Like she had done the long term calculations and there wasn't a good plan. That's where I think me and your role as a minister of a local church have a fund of 2,500 bucks set aside for somebody that they come to you and you're like, I got you, I'm ready to sign the lease right now on a three month apartment for you. Are you in? And we'll send six men over there to get you moved today. Like that to me is, I don't know, it's, it's, it's. I think the long term, you've got some choices to make and some hard decisions to make down the road is great, but when somebody's in the middle of something, it's not time for swimming lessons. It's time to get them out of the water. You get what I'm saying?

[Ann]

Right? Yeah. Yeah.

[John Deloney]

But man, if that's a, if that's a place where you can pull a trigger or if that's a place where you and your husband can say, hey, we've got your to go cash, we're going to put this on the table, we're going to, we got a one bedroom apartment for you or we got a spot in our garage apartment. Like I don't know what that looks like, but. Right. I think it's, it's taking some of those variables away. But I do think at the end of the day, I mean that's been, that's been the majority of my life. People coming in and sitting down and saying, I've got this awful thing happening to me or going on in my life and I say, okay, I'm ready if you are. And they're like, well, I don't want to change anything.

[Ann]

Right.

[John Deloney]

I don't want to do anything. And I'm always pretty open about when you're ready, dude, I will storm the gates of hell with you. Except on those two things. Dying by suicide or physical violence. And then I'm just going to start going myself.

[Ann]

Okay.

[John Deloney]

And, and I think that that probably is not the best solution all the time.

[Ann]

Yeah.

[John Deloney]

But I'm never ever again going to have in my life not having made a call. Right.

[Ann]

Yeah.

[John Deloney]

Because I've been on the other side of that. I'm just not doing that again.

[Ann]

Yeah.

[John Deloney]

So what's your next Move. I'm interested. I'm interested in what your next move is.

[Ann]

Well, I probably. I'm putting a little bit of distance because just, I know that physically it's, you know, raising my heart rate. It's. It's really been a lot for me. And so I'm trying to just put a little bit of distance between us for a little while. Just like a week or two break. And probably. I probably will say at some point, like, I'm going to have to call somebody. I'm gonna have to call the police if I hear about this anymore, you know, and then there's the other side of me that, like, the times when she's like, well, it's getting a little better, and by nature, I'm a cynic, and I'm like, okay, well, people like that don't just get better, you know, it's not like you're just like, reading a Bible verse and the next day, I'm not going to beat my wife anymore.

[John Deloney]

Exactly.

[Ann]

I want to be like, no, there, like, needs to be some work done here before it's going to get better.

[Mark]

That's right.

[Ann]

But is this.

[John Deloney]

Is this man like your close friends? Does this man have. Do you all have peripheral men that are connected to this dude?

[Ann]

Not that we have in common.

[John Deloney]

Okay, so it's not like you and her and several other girlfriends are friends, and your husband and him and several other dudes are friends?

[Ann]

No.

[John Deloney]

Okay. All right. Because that's. That's. That's the other way I remember is the peripheral story. I just remember several years. I mean, this is probably 15 years ago now, maybe. Maybe a little bit longer. But I made a joke. I was. I was. I just moved to a new town and a new group of men, and we were having, like, a get together, and we're all kind of laughing, and my wife hadn't moved yet, and we were going around the room like, hey, what does everybody need? And kind of taking prayer requests and just kind of getting. Getting to know each other. And I was the new guy. And I was like, does anybody know, like, where the dating spots are? And we all kind of laughed. And I was happily married and all that, and a guy who's become one of my closest friends in the world, his name's Kevin. He said, hey, you don't. You don't know us that well. So just to clear the air, if you ever cheat on your wife, you better hope to God she finds you before we do. And I remember being like, okay, whoa. Right? But it was just him Being like, this is the kind of guys that we are is how we roll. So I was hoping he might have some peripheral guy friends that could pay him a little visit out behind the woodshed. But.

[Ann]

Right.

[John Deloney]

I. Yeah, I think you're in your job as a pastoral care minister, as somebody who works in mental health, there comes a moment when I have to say, okay, I will be here for you. You are not in a position to solve this problem or you're not interested in solving this problem. And I. I know the limits of my ability to help you, and I can't solve it for you if it's going to get you killed or get you hurt. I'm jumping in and I'm calling the authorities if it's not when you are ready. I can't keep tech. I can't keep accepting your bomb text at 2am I can't accept your phone calls. I can't accept these coffee dates where you just tell me all the stuff and you don't want to change it. When you're ready. Oh, my gosh, I'm all, all in. I'm all in. And maybe sending that in a letter so that that person can go back to that letter and go back to that letter and go back to that letter. Yeah. I love the idea of knocking on your church and saying, hey, we need to have a small fund for when women need to get out. Or you and your husband track down a couple of men, a couple of families, a couple of men and women in your church that will be willing to say, I got 1500 bucks right now to get them out. I don't know a lot of people in my life that wouldn't just put cash on the table to get somebody out of an abusive situation, get them into an apartment. So I love that idea. But, yeah, I. Not a way that this ends super well, especially initially. We're playing a long game that we can get the woman some peace and good God. Hope you get this guy the accountability. And he needs a. He needs a heart change in a major way. Probably after some jail time, too. Thanks for the call, Ian. I'm really grateful for you. We'll be right back. November can be bananas. And we have the normal November chaos with colder weather and there's family drama at Thanksgiving and figuring out holiday plans. And with the recent election, well, no matter what you think about any of this mess, we all need an extra helping of peace. And one of the easiest ways to find and maintain peace is with the help of Hallow, the number one prayer and meditation app in the world. With so many external things trying to divide us or capture our attention or just make us bananas, Hallow is there to help you and me keep grounded, to stay present, and to focus on our faith in God. I use Hallow every day, and I absolutely love it. Hallow has thousands of prayers, songs, and meditations to guide you along the path of gratitude, to help you keep peace, and to help you answer hard questions and to help you grow closer to God. And I want you to watch for an upcoming Advent Pray 25 challenge that will make the countdown to Christmas truly special. Download the Hallow app and go to hallow.com deloney to get three free months. That's three free months of the Hallow app. Totally free at Hallow. H A L l o w com/deloney. All right, let's go to Grand Rapids, Michigan, and talk to David. Hey, David. What's up, man?

[David]

How you doing?

[John Deloney]

I'm all right, brother.

[David]

All right, so here's the question. How is it that I saved my best friend from a toxic relationship when he will not, and I repeat, will not listen to anybody about it?

[John Deloney]

You don't, man. I hate that for you.

[David]

Yeah. I mean, he just. I know he sees it, like. I mean, there was a couple things that, you know, he could let go. I could even let go. Being his best friend and being, like, the one that is most protective of him. But, I mean, it just. Some of the things that are being pulled here, I just. I am flabbergasted that he hasn't pumped the brakes or stopped it already. And he seems to be even endearing of the fact that she's been doing all these things for him. And I'm just.

[John Deloney]

How long have y'all been friends? How long have y'all been friends?

[David]

Um, over a year now. Um, and I know that kind of sounds like a short time, but it was just one of those things where we met at a bar, like, through a mutual friend of ours. And he might. He's like, hey, you got to meet this guy. And we met, and it's just like, holy. Sorry. Like, this guy is going to be the best man at my wedding, like. And it's been like that and on that trajectory ever since.

[John Deloney]

So the real work you have to do. And I hate to tell you this, man, I don't know any man, any guy who's not been right where you are. The real work you have to do ahead of you, unfortunately. It's gonna sound cheesy. Is grieving the fact that you're probably gonna have to get a new best man because this, this guy is not who you thought he was. And I think you, what the, the frustration is, I think is probably twofold. Number one, you're just like, dude, any guy, any guy in this kind of situation, you, you're the kind of guy who wants to go like, like, bro, get out. Like, right, you're drowning, get out. I'm gonna throw you a life raft. And so that's, that's the kind of guy you are, number one. But number two, like, not to be weird, but you made plans with this dude. Making friends after college, making friends as an adult, especially for guys, it's impossible. And you found one dude, you met a dude at a bar and you're like, bro, it's ride or tie. And there's that exhale, like, dude, you're not gonna be by me at my wedding. Because what he's telling you is, dude, I don't want your advice. I don't want your wisdom. I'm going to make my own grown up choices and I'm going to be with this person.

[David]

It's not even that he doesn't want it. He, he's so thankful that I care this much. And I've, I've seen, he's even admitted like, dude, I like, that's why we're brothers. Like, you know, you care about me this much, you're this protective over me. I mean, I just, I can't. Like, even coming into the relationship for him is just like, girl already has baggage. Like, I mean, she's got two kids and she's only 20 years old and.

[John Deloney]

Everybody comes with baggage though. I mean, that, that doesn't bother me. It's, it's. You're watching her be of a person that's killing your friend, right? That particular baggage that she has, he can't carry and she's hitting him with it or whatever. I mean, I don't want to ruin the analogy, but you get what I'm saying.

[David]

Yeah, no, I totally understand what you're saying. It's just, you know, I could, I could look past that. Like, that's one of the things I could look past. I could look past the fact that she has two kids. I could look past the fact that she dropped everything, quit her job, moved out of her place and started living with him and got a job of where he's working at now. But what I can't forgive is the fact that she gave up most of her rights to those two kids that she apparently Loves to the baby daddy who is allegedly abusive. I don't. I haven't heard anything. I haven't seen anything like that. But I've heard a lot of, you know, a lot of rumors swirling, like that's what she claims. I mean, I don't know if I automatically believe her. I don't. I don't know anything about that. But for her to leave her two kids with him 99% of the time and give up most of her rights to be with my friend.

[John Deloney]

I mean, yeah, but you're missing the whole other. You're missing the whole other side of it, dude. Your friend met some new girl and instantly invited her and come live with him. Your friend went and found her a job where he worked. Your friend likes having her around without those two kids around. So you're pegging all this on her, but your brother, dude in arms, your buddy, is equal participant in this thing.

[David]

He should know better.

[John Deloney]

I know, but what I'm saying is I can't get to the source of your anger because we're just watching two adults make two dumb decisions over and over and over again. But they never invited you in and said, hey, what should we do here? What's the next right move? And I can't tell if you're angry because you feel powerless in the situation or you're watching a slow motion train wreck. Like, where's the source of your is. There's an old saying I said, I finally sat down and confronted my anger and she introduced herself as grief. Like, is that what it is? You're just bummed, like, what is it?

[David]

I guess I'm mad because he, she.

[John Deloney]

Is it one of those things where one of your buddies, it happens to all of us, they start dating somebody and they just disappear off the face of the earth. And they used to go to the bar and they used to go to the game, used to watch the fights, and now they're just with her, her, her, her, her. There's that weird jealousy thing going. Like, what is it?

[David]

Okay, well, it's. I guess it's a mixture of all. I mean, this, this dude, like, I mean, you gotta understand, like, he is the most, I mean, electric human being you've ever made. This dude, dude, it's like everything is gonna turn out way better than you can possibly imagine. Constantly has a smile on his face. And he came at a point in time in my life where I couldn't have needed someone more like that. And he has been there for me every, through everything and goes both ways and now he has this girl and he never doesn't have a girl. Like that isn't his problem. It's not like he's desperate. He has a girl on the line every other week and then he finds this girl and she seems nice and all that. And now I'm starting to kind of learn about her. I'm just like, what are you doing, man? You're. You are so close to stepping off a cliff here and like being trapped in this relationship. I mean, maybe that's what he wants. I don't know. But what I am seeing is that he's distant. I don't think if I called him and chased after him, he wouldn't, he wouldn't chase after me or he wouldn't call me at all.

[John Deloney]

I know.

[David]

Yeah, I guess it's a little bit mix of jealousy.

[John Deloney]

It's a powerlessness. Dude, here's the thing. You clearly non romantically but like in a, in an important way you love this guy and you care about this guy and you want, you want, you wish well for him and he doesn't want your input on this one. He didn't care. He didn't care what kind of character she has. He doesn't care about any of that stuff. He doesn't care what you say. And he's going to tell you the right things because that's who he is in your words. He's electric. He's a smiler. He is. He brings people together. When you're like, dude, what are you doing? He's like, man, I'm so glad you're. You're my bro. Thanks for being honest with me. And then he goes right back and gets her a job where he works so he can be with her more. Behaviors, a language. He's clearly telling you, I don't care what you have to say. I don't care what you think about this. And so the questions, I mean, the what's next does not involve him. It doesn't involve her. The what's next dude involves you. Are you going to tell them, hey man, I'm your friend. I'm going to be. This thing is going to. I would love to be wrong. And if this thing works out, I can't wait to go to this wedding. But also, I'm pretty sure it's going to be a train wreck and I will be here when it, when to come help you out of the rubble or I can't be a part of this. Man, I thought you were a different kind of guy. I've known you For a year, I thought you were a different kind of dude, man. And it's all good. I wish you the best. But the action steps here. Your initial question, how can I make him? The answer is, I don't even know what you're going to say after that. You can't. And is it right to feel jealous? Of course, man. You like hanging out with this dude. He's a cool guy. He lights up a room, and he chose her. And I'll tell you, like, one of my oldest friends, this is a little bit different, but one of my oldest friends on the planet, his name John. John King. He's been one of my closest friends for 30 years. And I remember after he had his first kid, his wife, Jennifer is a close friend of mine, too. Like, very, very close. She's amazing. I remember he had his first kid, Elise, and he just stopped coming out with us. We got together every Monday night. Every single Monday night we were together. And some weekends he's quit coming. And I'm. I've told Jen this, like, I was like, man, his wife's the worst as a kid. Won't come out, won't come out, won't come out. And it wasn't until I had Hank, my son, several years later that him and I were out, just hanging out one night out at a. At a place, having a drink and eating nachos or whatever. And I said, dude, I always thought it was Jen that wasn't letting you out. You didn't want to come out. You wanted to stay at home with your kid and not with us. And he smiled real big. And I said, why didn't you tell us? And he goes, man, you wouldn't have understood. And he was right. And so I think it's you wrapping your head around. And what. Here's what I did. I actually. Jennifer's an amazing woman. She's awesome. She's one of my closest friends in the world. And I made up some stories about her for a couple of years, thinking that she was the problem. She wasn't. She's amazing. She probably would have loved to get John out of the house. So for you, your buddy's telling you, like, hey, man, at this moment in my life, I want to spend time with her. I don't hang out with you guys right now. I don't want to go to the bar. I want to go out to the game. I don't want to do any of that stuff. I want to be with her. And you have a choice now, which is to celebrate that and say, cool, man. I'm glad you found the good one. It's a bummer for us because we miss having you around, but I'm glad you have a good one. Or you can just be angry about it and poison the well. Do you get what I'm saying? Does it make sense?

[David]

Yeah, I get what you're saying.

[John Deloney]

It's a bummer, dude. I hate it for you. And can I tell you this, though? I hope that one day you walk into a room and you meet somebody and y'all text and y'all meet again and y'all have coffee and you'll have dinner, and I hope one day you meet somebody that you're like, bro, I'm not hanging out with these morons ever again. And I hope she loves you that much, too. Like, I wish that for you also. And by the way, that feeling goes away, and you can't wait to hang out with your buddies again at some point. But I want you to have that same. The world gets real small. I just hope she's a person of better character if you. If this other woman is as low character as you say she is.

[David]

Yeah, it just. I mean, I've been trying to come out of it from all angles, and I remember having a very candid conversation with him with the one. One of the very. Just really offbeat, weird night. I was just out with a couple friends of ours, and he all of a sudden kind of just showed up. And so we were kind of talking, and I' Like, I'm kind of telling him, like, dude, like, this is. This is bad. Like, I don't know if you see it. Like, he's like, yeah, no, like. And this was before we learned about, like, her moving in and, you know, the kids and the job and all that. Like. And I was still kind of like, you know, man, like, this is. This is not looking so good. Like, you know, just from an outside perspective. And he's like, dude, just kind of give her a chance, like. And I'm like, you know what? Maybe you're right. I. Maybe I've been too harsh. I'm going to give her a chance. Like, genuinely, I will. I will try to give her a chance. Chance. Like, I'm gonna get to know her. And then, you know, I learn about all this stuff. And, like, I could let most of it go, but it really comes kind of down to the kids. The kids for me, man, like, giving up your maternal rights to your kids, to a baby daddy who's abusive, I just not going to be Loyal to her kids. What makes you think she's going to be loyal to you?

[John Deloney]

Yeah, I would just promise you, you don't have that full story there. Like, there's so much. I promise you there's more to that story than what she says or what it is. Like, there's more to it than that. And that's just a lot. If you. If you know of kids getting abused. I mean, you. You. You better start ringing every alarm you got. Call everybody, bang every door. Like, we're going to protect those kids. Sounds like you're just hurt, man. You're mad. And we're going to. We're going to scan the environment for one thing that we can latch onto. And it's like, oh, she sucked as a mom. Let's latch onto. I. I would let go of that until you have some pretty definitive proof, because, again, forget her for a second. What does that say about your buddy? If he knows, yeah, those kids are being abused, but she's going to come hang out with me. That says a lot about his character. And I don't want to hang out with men who would be with people like that. Right. So that, like, even your argument goes downstream to your buddy there. But I. I think I can almost guarantee you there's more to that story and pieces and this and my own investigation. I would set that stuff down. And I spend some time being sad. I miss my buddy, and I'm gonna go on and do the next right thing, man. And I will tell everybody who is friends with somebody who loves somebody, who's dating somebody they don't like. Say your peace. Always say your piece. It's fine. But I want to encourage everybody to be careful because the chance they get married is strong, and they're always going to know that you told me you hated this person or you told me that this person's a bad person and that will make a relationship awkward forever. I. I much prefer the conversation. Like, man, I don't. I'm not seeing it with this one. Talk me through it. Tell me about her. Which is different than, can you believe that she's. That's a totally different conversation. Once you go that route, you are drawing a line. And, man, you're free to draw lines, brother, but it sounds to me like you're just sad. You miss your buddy, and I'm with you. We've all been there. We've all been there. But I would set it down. Be sad about missing your friend if he's found the one for him. For right now, I'D cheer him on and I'd go on about it. I hate it for you, brother. Thanks for the call, though. We'll be right back. Fall is here, everybody. And that means no, not pumpkin spice, please, no more pumpkin spice. It means that I get to spend every waking moment in my flannel and soft denim shirts from Poncho, the world's best performance shirts for men. All poncho shirts are great and their flannels and soft denims kind of remind me of when I was younger and I wanted to be in Soundgarden and Pearl Jam. But listen, the real reason I love Poncho flannels is because they're soft yet incredibly durable and incredibly comfortable. They have a little bit of stretch so they move with you, not against you, and they dry quickly and they have slim and regular fits for different body types. And you can wear these shirts for outdoor adventures, outdoor work, and off to dinner with your wife or the concert with your friends. Poncho shirts will make amazing gifts for the men in your family this holiday season. Head to poncho outdoors.com and check out all of their styles. Enter code deloney at checkout to get a free T shirt or a hat with any purchase of a button down shirt, go to poncho outdoors.com and use code Deloney. All right, we're back with something cool that happened slash, am I the problem?

[Kathleen]

Yes. This is kind of a combo, so I'll read the cool crap that happened part first. This is from Kathleen in Atlanta. She said, I heard you tell a caller who was lonely that he should just invite people over. You told him that it might be awkward and nobody might show, but to keep trying. I invited some fellow stay at home moms to start hanging out while the kids were at school. I had a brunch at my house and 10 people came over. It was so fun. And then I should also, I should also say that only two people came the next time.

[John Deloney]

Boo. Boo to your brunch. Just kidding.

[Kathleen]

But now that school has started back up again, I'm inviting those ladies out to lunch next next week. So fingers crossed, I'm going to keep trying.

[John Deloney]

Good for hey, there's nothing harder than keep trying, right? I would have been a gut punch to only have two come back and you have to really like, work hard to be like, it's not about me, it's about them. Maybe they didn't like each other. Maybe they got a bunch of stuff going. Like, who knows?

[Kathleen]

But those two are the two that needed to be there.

[John Deloney]

Correct?

[Kathleen]

100.

[John Deloney]

But sometimes one of the two that decides to keep going, that's the worst. All right, Keep going. Okay, so what's the other side?

[Kathleen]

And then she said, also, am I the problem? Not about that. This is a totally different issue. So, no, she's not the problem in that.

[John Deloney]

Good for you.

[Kathleen]

So Escape, the Pina Colada Song by Rupert Holmes is my personal little drummer boy. My husband loves this song.

[John Deloney]

Do you know this song?

[Kathleen]

Yeah, you know it? Do you like pina coladas? Getting caught in the rain.

[John Deloney]

Do you like pina coladas? That one. Okay.

[Kathleen]

Yeah, that's the song.

[John Deloney]

What's it called?

[Kathleen]

It's called Escape Parentheses. The Pina Colada Song. That's the actual title. All right. By Rupert Holmes. So it's her personal little drummer boy. She despises it. Her husband loves it. Okay.

[John Deloney]

She married wrong.

[Kathleen]

So she says, I finally listened to the words, and, oh, my gosh, this song is horrible. He thinks it's a love song with a happy ending. Then she listening to the words, she says, I can't get over how they were both trying to cheat on each other. I get that it's catchy, but I think this is a horrible song to be a classic. What do you think?

[John Deloney]

Here's the thing that I heard this parent do. It's so amazing. So they have a teenager, and the teenager likes to say, that's what she said all the time. That's what she said. That's what she said. Right. All those jokes or. That's not the first time I heard that today. So this parent decided. Actually, both parents decided that whenever this kid, this teenager says that's what she said, they explain in graphic detail what that actually means. Right. So if, like, that's what she said, then there's a deep explanation, no pun intended. Like an explanation on. Oh, you mean. And the really graphic. The body parts and how the body parts all work together. And the teenager. I was like. They told me the teenager is, like, screaming right on the house, like, no, stop. Right. So I think this is instructive in this situation if somebody in your life is walking through the house singing a really horrific song. I think there's a great case for. Oh, and a really, like. Let's recite some of the lyrics and let's talk through them together in a. In a no. Singing a very clear way about how gross something is. And I don't know the lyrics of do you like pina coladas?

[Kathleen]

But the whole gist of it is.

[John Deloney]

A little bit pineapple.

[Kathleen]

Well, it's while not that, but, like, they're like, together, and he's, like, bored with her, so he places a personal ad and he finds somebody else in the personal ads who likes his ad, and they're going to meet up, and it ends up being his wife. So they were both placing personal ads, and then it's like, oh, I didn't know you like this. Oh, that's funny.

[John Deloney]

Ha ha ha.

[Kathleen]

And now we're in love again. That's the whole gist of the song. So they were both trying to cheat on the other.

[John Deloney]

The song's ruined. But maybe it would be a funny thing when your husband's reading. I'm singing the song to be like, oh, hey, real quick. Hold on. Hey. I just. I'm putting this ad out on Tinder about people I like to cheat on, and will you go over it with me? Because it's awesome. And maybe if you put your ad on Tinder. But here's what I'm thinking. Looking for a man who. And like and like. And be. Obviously be silly about it, but I don't know. I get swept away sometimes. I'm singing some songs and Sheila will turn down. My wife will turn the radio and be like, are you for real right now? And I'll be like, oh, that's a terrible song.

[Kathleen]

Anyway, I do that with pretty. Any much of the 90s hip hop and rap I listen to that are so horrible about women. And I'm singing them at the top of my lungs.

[John Deloney]

Oh, I remember I went. I went to the Guns and Roses reunion show. Song one. I like. They come out playing and I was like, michelle and or about one line in. I was like, yeah. I looked at my friends. I was like, I have a daughter. I'm not singing this.

[Kathleen]

I can't like this anymore, Winger. I mean, all of them.

[John Deloney]

No. Yeah, no, you can't sing any of these songs. So. So I think there's a clever, fun way to do that. That's not like you can't like. Right. It's just being human. But also, if he has to sing the song, just turn it off. No. If in case you're asking, you are not the problem. Anyone who quote, unquote says, I love that song, they're instantly the problem. Right? It's really is how do you want to address it? Do you want to address it with humor and snarky, or do you just want to turn the radio. Radio off or do you want to walk out of the room? Like, you get to decide how you want to blow up that situation. I prefer. I don't know, I prefer a little bit snarky when it's not the end of the world. That's just me. Kelly, though, it's a whole other story. Love you guys. Stay in school. Bye.