I Can’t Move Past My Wife’s Affair

Summary

Podcast Summary: The Dr. John DeLoney Show – "I Can’t Move Past My Wife’s Affair"

Podcast Information:

• Title: The Dr. John DeLoney Show
• Host/Author: Ramsey Network
• Description: A caller-driven show offering real talk on relationships and mental health challenges, encouraging listeners to engage by sending questions via voicemail or email.
• Episode: I Can’t Move Past My Wife’s Affair
• Release Date: November 25, 2024

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1. Zach’s Struggle with His Wife’s Emotional Affair (02:42 – 18:36)

Overview: Zach from Indianapolis calls in to discuss his tumultuous journey after discovering his wife was involved in an emotional affair with a coworker. Despite efforts to rebuild their marriage, Zach finds himself haunted by persistent doubts and intrusive thoughts about the affair.

Key Points:

• Discovery of the Affair: Zach learned about the emotional affair in January when he stumbled upon a concerning message on his wife’s smartwatch. Despite confronting her, she didn’t fully disclose the extent of her interactions with the coworker.
• Rebuilding Process: Over the past year, Zach and his wife have engaged in rebuilding their relationship, showing signs of improvement such as increased kindness, better communication, and shared activities.
• Lingering Doubts: Despite outward improvements, Zach struggles with intrusive “light bulb” thoughts questioning the depth of the affair, leading to ongoing internal conflict.

Notable Quotes:

• Zach: “[05:07] Did she come clean? … [05:15] No. She didn’t completely open up.”
• Dr. DeLoney: “[05:31] You should have because, hey, you're playing a charade…”
• Dr. DeLoney: “[10:28] But you can't just take something away. You gotta have something that replaces it.”

Insights & Advice: Dr. DeLoney emphasizes the importance of addressing unresolved doubts to prevent them from undermining trust and commitment. He advises Zach to replace negative thoughts with positive actions, such as focusing on shared memories and committing to mutual healing. Dr. DeLoney underscores that rebuilding trust is an active, ongoing process that requires transparency and dedication from both partners.

Conclusion: Zach is encouraged to continue his commitment to rebuilding trust while addressing lingering doubts through open communication and positive reinforcement. Dr. DeLoney highlights that overcoming such challenges is possible with sustained effort and mutual support.

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2. Jake’s Challenge Supporting a Partner After Sexual Assault (25:25 – 40:22)

Overview: Jake from Minneapolis shares his emotional turmoil after learning that his girlfriend was sexually assaulted a few years prior. He grapples with feelings of anger, helplessness, and resentment towards her friends for not providing adequate support during her ordeal.

Key Points:

• Revelation of Assault: Jake’s girlfriend disclosed her past sexual assault during a monthly check-in they established to discuss their relationship dynamics.
• Emotional Impact: Post-disclosure, Jake experiences a downward spiral of emotions, including anger towards the assailant and her friends for their lack of support.
• Desire to Support: Despite feeling overwhelmed, Jake is determined to support his girlfriend but feels unequipped to navigate her trauma effectively.

Notable Quotes:

• Jake: “[27:45] I just don’t know how to move past it…”
• Dr. DeLoney: “[33:29] ...You are just a good man. And I think it's fair to hold her hands when you're telling her, hey, I'm not scared of this…”
• Dr. DeLoney: “[37:30] ...Secrets will kill you. And if you have a secret, like, question that you didn't ask, you're still rebuilding trust.”

Insights & Advice: Dr. DeLoney advises Jake to become a supportive anchor for his girlfriend without imposing control or blame. He emphasizes the importance of setting boundaries for oneself to prevent internalized anger from damaging the relationship. Professional counseling is recommended to help Jake process his emotions and develop effective coping strategies. Dr. DeLoney also highlights the necessity of open communication and the need for both partners to engage in the healing process collaboratively.

Conclusion: Jake is encouraged to seek professional support to manage his feelings of anger and helplessness while providing a stable and loving environment for his girlfriend. Dr. DeLoney reiterates the critical role of transparency and mutual support in navigating the aftermath of trauma within a relationship.

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3. Jane’s Efforts to Support Her Anxious Husband (43:07 – 63:23)

Overview: Jane from Dallas, a 19-year-old newlywed, seeks advice on how to support her husband who is struggling with severe anxiety-induced digestive issues. Coming from a background of childhood trauma, Jane has taken on a caregiver role, which complicates her ability to effectively support her husband without feeling overwhelmed.

Key Points:

• Husband’s Health Issues: Jane’s husband suffers from gastritis and IBS, which are exacerbated by his severe anxiety stemming from his parents' tumultuous relationship.
• Jane’s Background: Having grown up as a caregiver for her disabled father with PTSD, Jane has internalized the role of constantly managing and solving health crises, leading to burnout.
• Marital Struggles: The couple faces challenges in physical intimacy due to her husband’s anxiety and health, compounded by Jane’s tendency to panic and attempt to control outcomes.

Notable Quotes:

• Jane: “[43:15] ...my husband has been struggling with some digestive health issues…”
• Dr. DeLoney: “[50:12] Nothing goes perfectly. Nothing. Even the greatest night of sex will have weird stuff to it…”
• Dr. DeLoney: “[58:50] The only path is peace. The only path is love. The only path is boundaries.”

Insights & Advice: Dr. DeLoney advises Jane to shift from a controlling mindset to one of providing peace and stability. He underscores the importance of setting healthy boundaries to prevent caregiver burnout and encourages both partners to engage in professional counseling. Techniques such as skin-to-skin contact and daily affirmations of love and support are recommended to foster a safe and calming environment. Dr. DeLoney also emphasizes that physical intimacy should be a source of comfort rather than stress, advocating for mutual understanding and patience as they navigate these challenges together.

Conclusion: Jane is guided to prioritize her and her husband’s emotional well-being by adopting a peaceful and supportive approach. Dr. DeLoney highlights the necessity of professional help and ongoing communication to address underlying anxiety and health issues, ensuring a healthier and more balanced relationship.

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Overarching Themes and Takeaways

• Rebuilding Trust: Central to the discussions with Zach is the delicate process of rebuilding trust after infidelity. Transparency, open communication, and mutual commitment are essential components.

• Supporting After Trauma: Both Jake and Jane illustrate the complexities of supporting a partner through significant emotional trauma and health challenges. The importance of professional counseling and setting personal boundaries are recurring advice points.

• Personal Healing: Dr. DeLoney emphasizes that personal healing is crucial in all scenarios. Whether dealing with an affair, past assault, or anxiety-related health issues, addressing one’s own mental and emotional state is fundamental to supporting a partner effectively.

• Communication and Boundaries: Effective communication and clear boundaries are highlighted as vital tools in navigating relationship challenges. Encouraging honest dialogue and mutual support systems can lead to healthier and more resilient partnerships.

Notable Quotes with Timestamps

• Rebuilding Trust:
  Dr. DeLoney: “[10:28] But you can't just take something away. You gotta have something that replaces it.”

• Supporting After Trauma:
  Dr. DeLoney: “[33:29] Yeah, I see what you have.”
  Dr. DeLoney: “[58:50] The only path is peace. The only path is love. The only path is boundaries.”

• Personal Healing:
  Dr. DeLoney: “[17:25] And that 10% is... you can't just do this all in your head.”
  Dr. DeLoney: “[62:44] There is healing from your anxiety.”

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Conclusion

In this episode of The Dr. John DeLoney Show, Dr. DeLoney navigates complex emotional terrains with callers dealing with infidelity, trauma, and anxiety. Through empathetic dialogue and practical advice, he underscores the importance of open communication, professional support, and personal healing in overcoming relationship and mental health challenges. Listeners are reminded that while the path to healing is arduous, it is achievable with commitment, understanding, and mutual support.

Transcript

[Dr. John DeLoney]

What up? What up? Listen, Black Friday week is here and that means you can save big on questions for humans decks and my book Building a non Anxious Life and [e-mail] store.

[Zach]

And then I saw the last message that she had received from him was good night baby, I love you. And then I confronted her the next day about it.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Did she show you all the text messages and pictures and all the things they'd exchanged?

[Zach]

No, she didn't. I didn't push for it. I probably should have.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

You should have because, hey, you're, you're, you're playing a charade. What's up? What's up? This is John with Dr. John DeLoney Show. Hope you're doing well. We're talking about your mental and emotional health, your relationships, your marriages, your kids, grief, just whatever's going on in your life. We're, My promise is I'm going to sit with you and we talk about it. We're going to figure out what's the next right move, what's one step we could take maybe two or three. Where do we go from here? If you want to be on the show, give me a buzz at 1-844-693-3291 or go to john deloney.com ask a s k Kelly this weekend I took my son, 14 year old, to his first heavy metal show. I'm buddies with the guitarist and he was pretty generous and two big moments. Moment number one, my son looked around and got a really clear understanding as to why I dress how I do. He's like, dad, these are your people. And the second thing is at some one point I looked over, now he's a country 90s country guy. He would prefer to be at a George Strait show. I failed him, but he'd prefer to be at like a Garth Brooks or George Strait show. But at one point I looked over and he was bobbing his head real hard and I was like, that's what I'm talking about. That's what I'm talking about. He wants none of it. He just wants to go back to Hee Haw music. There we go.

[Kelly]

See, I'm, I say this because I know personally people can be a fan of both.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Agree or disagree. I'm just kidding.

[Kelly]

I'm, I'm a huge fan of both.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

I saw Garth Brooks and that dude jams. Yeah. And my buddy Aaron Watson jam.

[Kelly]

I'm a huge country fan and a huge rock metal fan, so I agree.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

And if you peel away the instruments, they kind of sing about the Same stuff. Yeah. Like, I'll fight you.

[Kelly]

There's a very similar.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Let's drink too much.

[Kelly]

You know, between. Between the two.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Yeah, it's very. Similarities until you get into the. Yeah. The Scary Marys or the Super Darks. Anyway. All right, let's go out to Indianapolis. Indianapolis. Let's go out to Indiana and talk to Zach. What's up, Zach?

[Zach]

Howdy, Dr. John.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Howdy, my man. What's up?

[Zach]

Oh, Justin, Just another exciting day. A little sarcasm there.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

I got it. I got it. What's up, dude? How can I help, brother?

[Zach]

Well, been struggling to kind of overcome something internally, even though it seems like on the outside everything's cool. Back very early in the year, I discovered that my wife was involved in an emotional affair with a co worker. And, like, since then, like, the. We've been doing the rebuild process. And I mean, for. For the most part. I mean, things are actually probably better now than they was before.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Yeah.

[Zach]

But I just can't seem to get these, like, as you describe, like, light bulb. Like, light bulb thoughts. Like, they just kind of come out of nowhere, like, thoughts. Thoughts about it.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Yeah.

[Zach]

And, I mean, I don't know how to. I don't know how to explain it. I mean, it's not near as bad as it was. It's definitely getting. Getting better.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

How long ago did this happen?

[Zach]

This? I made the discovery in January, and now it's October.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Okay. How'd you find out?

[Zach]

Well, it's a bit of a story, but my wife came home. Came home one day in August and told me about a new friend she had made at work. And over the course of months, it seemed like they was talking way too much outside of work, and I was uncomfortable with it, and I tried discussing it with her, and she kept telling me, it's nothing. It's nothing. And then I don't know. One day. One day I woke up in the middle of the night, and I just had a feeling. And I checked her smartwatch. And then I saw the last message that she had received from him was, good night, baby. I love you. And then I confronted her the next day about it.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Did she come clean?

[Zach]

Yeah.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Did she show you all the text messages and pictures and all the things they'd exchanged?

[Zach]

No. She didn't. Did not completely open up her phone to me.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Why not?

[Zach]

She wasn't. Wasn't up for it. And I didn't push for it, but I probably should have.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

You should have? Because, hey, you're. You're. You're playing a charade because I Think, you know, there's more there.

[Zach]

Yeah.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Am I right?

[Zach]

Probably. Because my understanding is the only thing that happened between them, like, on a physical level, was kissing.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Okay.

[Zach]

But obvious. Obviously, I've not read through all their text messages and stuff, so all I have to go on is her word. And obviously she lied to me.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Right. And you know as well as I do, she didn't slide the phone across the table and say, I love you more than life itself, and I'm so sorry. And yes, I have a crush on a coworker, and I. I have. I. I have. I've been inappropriate, man. But nothing else has happened here. Look. But when she looked at you and said, nah, you can't see that, dude, as far as I'm concerned, that tells me what I need to know. There's more to it. And it may have been sexting. It may have been, hey, let's meet up here at this hotel. Who knows what was there? The problem is there was something left unsaid there. And can I give you one more thing that I think's equally, if not more, heavy?

[Zach]

Yeah.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

You didn't ask. And you've lost trust in you. Right?

[Zach]

Right.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Like, because you probably are just like me. You've told yourself all these kind of stories about my wife ever. I'm gonna. And you didn't.

[Zach]

100% you didn't. And because of that, I've only told one person up until now about this.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

And secrets are killing you.

[Zach]

Exactly.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

And lack of trust in your own house is killing you. And the fact that your wife still was hedging her bets when you found out is killing you.

[Zach]

Yeah, it's. I mean, definitely as far as, like, don't get me wrong, I do. I do love her.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

I know you do.

[Zach]

I know you do, or I wouldn't have tried to. Tried to work through this.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

No, I know you do, but. And I don't think your marriage is over, but I don't think y'all are still. Y'all may be performing better. Y'all may be kinder. Talking about things, laughing more, going for walks, putting your cell phones away when you get home, all that kind of stuff. But she still doesn't know that you're wondering what was in that phone when. That night.

[Zach]

Right. This is now. This actually did make me feel better at the time, and it did for a little few days afterwards. But I don't. I don't know if it'll have any lasting effects. I think part of it might be just because of, you know, expecting. Expecting the Phone call, then kind of rehashing everything in my head again, of course.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

But let's. Let's go there. Let's say she slight slid her phone across the table and you read through all the text and they were gut wrenching. I think you're hilarious. My husband never laughs like, you make me laugh. I can't believe you kissed me. But it was kind of awesome. Like, you saw all that. She just handed it to you. And she'd never sent him topless photos and her phone wasn't filled with pics or like, she just. It just. It was right. Right. You. Then a year later you said, I agree. I'm all back in. We're going to rebuild something new. Then you have to make the choice to have two or three images of your wife of y'all together, laughing, having fun, being silly when she is a ray of light in your life. And the moment that lightning bolt hits, you can't stop that. It happens. But the moment that hits, you have a choice immediately following that. And that is, am I going to either pull out that picture out of my wallet or my phone and look at it and meditate on that. So glad we stuck this out and we're building something new and amazing and I'm going to force my energy onto that photo or to that memory. Or you can choose to meditate on what was on that thought. And then the kiss and then where was his hands on her body? Like, and you can go down that road, dude. And you're gonna get enraged and mad again, and then you're gonna get mad at yourself again. Like that whole. The whole machine will. Will kick up again.

[Zach]

Yeah, I don't want to do that on a heel.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

I know. But you. You can't just take something away. You gotta have something that replaces it.

[Zach]

Gotcha.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

And you, by committing to stay, said, I'm back in. Which means I'm not going to keep bringing this thing up and I'm going to do what I need to do to heal so we can come back.

[Zach]

I. I did do something of a healing gesture on our anniversary because one of the tragedies about this scenario is that it only happened a couple months into us actually being married, but on our anniversary, I took a. Took a piece of paper and then I wrote down, like, different thing. Well, I didn't actually write the things down, but I made like a list basically, even though, like, the things wasn't listed on the list. And I said, things that I've done to hurt you. Things that you've done. To hurt me. And we. The paper. And I told her that I didn't want things from our first year of marriage to come into our second year of marriage, and I wanted to start fresh.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Cool. And so from that point forward, the only person you can control is you.

[Zach]

Right?

[Dr. John DeLoney]

And maybe you're at a place now where you have healed from that initial. Ugh. And you just need to deal with the lightning bolts, and that just takes time, man. That just takes time.

[Zach]

Well, I tell you what, the initial. The initial shock was. Was rough on me. I lost £12 in 12 days.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Heck, yeah. You're not gonna eat. You're gonna have diarrhea. You just. Yeah, you wither away. Happens fast.

[Zach]

Yeah, it was a rough time.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Yeah. Absolutely, man. You're not crazy. And maybe you're at a place now where you can say, okay, I'm not leaving you. I love you. I like what we. What we're rebuilding. But one thing is haunting me. That night when I asked you, like, to see, like, see your phone, and you said you weren't ready for that. What were you hiding? Did you ever send him, like, topless pictures? No, I didn't. Did you, Rick, really like what was in your phone? Because it's making me kind of making me crazy still.

[Zach]

Okay.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

And if she said, all right, I'll tell you. You got to be prepared for what comes.

[Zach]

That's. That's true. Like, currently. Sorry. My throat got caught. Like, currently. I don't know if having that. If having that conversation would be. Would be re. Traumatized. Re traumatizing for me or.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Bro, listen to me. I don't think you're untraumatized. I think you're a good old boy from Indianapolis, Indiana, and you are great at wallpaper and over stuff because we got work to do, and we're going to move on with our lives.

[Zach]

100.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

But that cancer's eating you from the inside out. I can hear it on you.

[Zach]

Yeah, definitely.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Secrets will kill you. And if you have a secret, like, question that you didn't ask, you're still rebuilding trust. And you get to set the parameters for what trust rebuild looks like, and she gets to opt in or out. You cannot just do, like, some church camp thing and burn a list on a candle and all the trust comes back. It's something you will rebuild over time, and you can only rebuild it through action day after day after day. It's like. It's like tearing a bicep, and you go get it surgically repaired. The only way to make that thing strong Again. And by the way, it can get real strong again. But you got to lift weights every day and you got to recover. And when it hurts, you got to lean in and find out, is that an injury or is that, do I got to work through that pain? It just, it doesn't. Just like, you don't just burn the surgical x rays and MRIs and just go on your day. It's not how healing works. And in many ways, I wonder if that ceremony you did, I love the gesture. I think it's a beautiful gesture, but I wonder if it was as much for you as it was for her. You trying to force yourself to just forget about something without doing the work. And the work is sitting across the table from her saying, here's what I need from you to reestablish trust. I need your phone password.

[Zach]

It, it honestly was just as much for me as it was for her.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Okay.

[Zach]

Part of it. Because, like, I know that, I mean, based on what I've seen, like, I know she has a guilty conscience about it still. And, like, there's been, we had like a weekend long conversation about whether we was going to stay together or not after this happened. And we ultimately decided that we would. And there was a time during that she offered me the chance to say anything crappy to her that I wanted to say and get it off my chest. And I refused to refuse to call her names or anything like that. But I know there's been times over the last, well, particularly the first half of the year, like some of the things that I wanted to say in that moment, well, they would just randomly pop out. Randomly pop out in conversation, out of nowhere.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Sure. And, and I'll tell you, saying that stuff won't be cathartic. You know that.

[Zach]

Right?

[Dr. John DeLoney]

That's just not who you are. You don't badmouth women. That's just not who you are. Yeah, but that's not the catharsis that your body needs. I, I, I think there's still two big open wounds underneath all of this. One of them is and the answer to the question, what really happened?

[Zach]

100%.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

And can you forgive, can you forgive you for not seeing it, for missing it?

[Zach]

Yeah, I get, I guess that's something I have to work on because I feel like I've 90% forgiven her, but there's still like a 10% that's right. Nagging at me.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

And that 10% is, listen, you can't just do this all in your head. If you have a tractor and the engine blows up, you can't think through how you're going to fix it and expect the tractor to run right. So you can't just think your way to rebuilding trust. You got to sit across the table and say, here's what I need. I need to see your phone. Every day for X number of weeks or months, I am randomly going to have questions about what happened. I need you to be okay with me asking them. I need you to answer me honestly. I need you to open up. Like, we're going to go back to the, to the, I don't know, to the cloud and do retro for a year on any photos up there and see what photos might be like. Like, I always want to know those things. I want to look at our phone records, I mean, at our hotel records, and see if there were any, like, charges to a hotel. Like, I, I, I'm going to reestablish trust. You blew up the sidewalk. I'm going to report the sidewalk.

[Zach]

I def, definitely think I should have took a more headstrong approach on this. Oh, well, what it is turning into almost a year ago.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Yeah. And here we are. And here's what I would say. So when students used to come into my office and let's say, like, I had been reported something serious, sexual assault, drugs, like something, something major that was going to alter their life, I would ask them, did you assault somebody? Here's what I got. Here's the details, here's the report. And they would always answer, whatever, no, it wasn't me. Or it's sort of, it wasn't what you think, whatever. At the end of that meeting, I always did this, always. Because I was, not only was, I was trying to keep people safe and get people to follow the rules, but I was trying to teach, too. I always tell people, hey, from this moment forward, I know this is hard. You have 24 hours or 48 hours, whatever it was, to come back and change your story. And if you do that, I'm going to count it as though it was today. Because I know sometimes when you get scared and you just get called into an office and you just start spilling, you create a story. I get that. Totally get that. You get 24, 48 hours after that, if I find out a month from now or a year from now that you were lying in this moment, that will be worse as bad or worse than whatever happened. And so I tell you that to tell you, I think it's fair to circle back and say, hey, I want to do another. We've been working on it and I'M just amazed at how we're rebuilding some stuff. There are some questions I didn't ask a year ago that still haunt me. And you own it. Not. You didn't show. I didn't push on stuff and I didn't ask questions because my world just got blew up. I want to spend a morning for breakfast just circling back, and I'm just going to ask you just tell me the truth, and I'm never going to talk bad about you, but there's just some things that are haunting me. Just some things that are haunting me. And ask the questions. Don't make the accusations. Ask the questions that you need answers to. And you commit to doing the work. I am going to commit to not meditating on these pictures or these thoughts I have in my mind or whatever, because I'm choosing to stay with you. Or you find out, no, it was more than just a kiss. No, there was sexting involved. No, there was whatever. I talked bad about you in these texts, too. And you got to deal with what comes next. And there's a part of me that she's still covered up in guilt. Part of me wonders if she still has things unsaid, unspoken truths left to be told. And I think putting that on the table and giving somebody an opportunity to safely say, here's. Here's the whole truth now might be a gift. And there might be some things in that gift that you got to deal with. But I just. I just am. I'm to a place now where I think underneath communication problems and infidelity and pornography, all these things, the things that destroy are the secrets. Laying in bed next to somebody and they know something, you know that they know something, and nobody says anything about it. I think that's the cancer that ultimately destroys relationships. I think you're just worth the truth, brother. But if you decide you know the truth, you need to do the work in real time, not meditating on those lightning bolts. She deserves that, too. Thanks for the call, brother. We'll be right back. All right. So I saw a headline the other day that made me want to bundle up all of my electronic devices and throw them into the lake. One third of the United States population's background information is now public for everyone. 115 million of us, our personal and private information is just out there for anyone to find and do with what they please. And with data breaches becoming more frequent, it feels like we're losing control over who has access to our personal information. Nothing feels like ours anymore. And that's why I Love Delete Me. They are the best folks out there at taking all of your private data from the hands of the bad guys. Delete Me removes your personal information from the countless data broker websites that buy, sell and trade your personal information. And that information includes your name, address, phone number, work history, property values, and much more. And as much as I hate the interwebs, I'm on them everywhere. And thank goodness, Delete Me puts the power back in my hands, helping me take back control over where my information is stored and who can access it. Your information doesn't need to be in the hands of other people. So sign up with Deleteme today. Individual plans start as low as nine bucks a month, helping to protect you and your family from the risks of unwanted exposure. Online scammers, spammers, stalkers and thieves. Go to joindeleteme.com Deloney today for 20% off. That's joindeleteme.com deloney this show is sponsored by BetterHelp. This month is all about gratitude and most of us have a person or two that we'd like to shout out for helping us along the way. I'd like to take a moment to thank two people who have transformed my life. The great Marilyn Fanon and the powerful and amazing Dr. Jean Will Thompson. Marilyn gave me a chance when no one should have, and she brought me along and taught me poise and professionalism and she challenged me. And Jean Noel taught me how to be a dad, a husband, a professional, and how to balance the seemingly impossible weight of caring for a whole bunch of people all at the same time. Thank you to Marilyn and Jean Noel and for you listeners. I know you have people in your life that you're grateful for and hopefully you stop and thank them every once in a while. But there's one person that we often don't take time to think enough ourselves. We don't always acknowledge that we're surviving, we're moving forward and we're grinding our way towards a better life, better relationships and a better world. And in a world where everything's gone bonkers, it's not always easy. So here's my reminder. Thank the people in your life. And thank you. And sometimes we need more than just a thank you. We need some professional and personal help. We need to talk to someone who's trained to help us discover our true gratitude and our true selves during the holiday season. That's why I recommend my friends at BetterHelp. BetterHelp is 100% online therapy, and you can talk with your therapist Anytime, anywhere. So it's convenient for your schedule. You just fill out a short online survey to get matched with the licensed therapist, and you can switch therapists at any time for no extra cost. This season, let the gratitude flow with BetterHelp. Visit betterhelp.com DeLoney to get 10% off your first month. That's BetterHelp. H E L p.com DeLoney all right, let's go out to Minneapolis and talk to Jake. What's up, Jake?

[Zach]

Hey, John.

[Jake]

How's it going?

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Doing all right, brother. How are you?

[Zach]

I'm doing good.

[Jake]

I'm doing good.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Excellent. What's up?

[Jake]

Well, I have been having some trouble emotionally and mentally just dealing with the news of hearing my girlfriend was assaulted sexually a few years ago.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Geez, man. Dude, that breaks my heart.

[Jake]

Breaks mine, too.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Yeah. I'm sorry, man. How long you all been together?

[Jake]

Going on six months now.

[Zach]

Okay.

[Jake]

And she's the most amazing girl that I've ever had the pleasure of meeting.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

How'd you find out? How'd she tell you?

[Jake]

Well, say about a month ago, we kind of came up with this thing where, like, once a month we just talked about how we're doing, if there's anything that we need from the other person. And I guess it was just something that was on her mind and she ended up telling me. And I took it in person. I took it fairly well. But then once I got by myself and with my own thoughts, I just kind of spiraled.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Yeah. Tell me about your spiraling.

[Jake]

Well, actually, let me.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Let me back up. Let me stop that. How did you take it?

[Jake]

In the moment, I was kind of more shocked. She has told me before that she had been sexually assaulted. Never really went into detail, and I obviously wasn't going to pry her for details if she didn't want to tell me. And then so she ended up telling me. I was just kind of in shock. Just kind of listened and tried to understand the situation and where she was coming from and how it made her feel. And then we kind of just resumed our night, our movie night, and kind of relaxed, and then once she took off, just kind of went downhill.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

What, when she left? Yeah. Yep.

[Jake]

Yep.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

So, yeah. What have you been working through?

[Jake]

Well, just kind of sometimes when it'll just pop into my mind and I'll just think about, you know, how scared she was after it kind of happened and the scenario, and also anger, of course, at whoever did it and then also at her friends for not really having her back or looking out for her.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Yeah, yeah, that's all right, man. Just a twisted ball of rage. Being angry is the right response right now. I think the biggest challenge is it's not her job to hold your anger. Right.

[Jake]

Right.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

So how can I help you, man? I'm sorry, dude. Geez. I. I'm sorry for her. I'm heartbroken for her. I'm heartbroken for everybody.

[Jake]

I just. I don't really know how to, like, move past it. I know it's always going to be. I'm sure it's something that's going to be in. That sticks with her for the rest of her life.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

I don't know about that. I mean, the story. The story, the experience. Yeah, that's a part of her life. There's no question about that. But healing is pretty extraordinary, and the healing journeys are pretty extraordinary of women who've experienced some wild stuff, evil stuff. If you decide I can't be with you because this happened, you need to own that fully.

[Jake]

Yeah, I'm not at that point whatsoever. Like, I want to be out. I'd work through anything with her, and I know it's nothing that she can't change. It was out of her control at the time, and I just want to support her. And I know it's been years ago, and when I've talked to her about it and kind of how I was feeling a little bit, and she was just like, hey, I'm fine. Like, it was three years ago. I'm okay. I'm happy with you and everything like that. So I know she's gone through. She's gotten help and kind of worked through it, but it almost feels. It's like new. It's news to me. So it's almost like it just happened in some way. And I don't know. And I also have. I'm kind of struggling since hearing that she was with some friends at the time when it happened. They didn't. They kind of just let her go. And I kind of have that resentment towards her friends. Like, I don't trust them. I don't really want her. I feel like if she goes, I'm totally okay with, like, she wants to go out for girls night and everything like that, but I don't trust that her friends will be looking out for her and protecting her. And I don't know how to kind of. I feel like I should tell her that, but I don't know.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

So let me. Let me be as direct as I can with this, okay? She doesn't need you to be her dad, and she doesn't need you to come to the rescue and fight a fight that, that physically happened three years ago. And if you were my close buddy and you came to me, I would tell you to go back to her and hold both of her hands and say, hey, when you told me this terrifying, scary thing. Because what she was asking is, can I say this thing and are you going to run? Because that what happened to her is so devastating, it's reorienting, and it reshapes the way you experience the planet, everybody in it. And so it's a testament to you that she felt safe enough to put it on the table. And when she immediately withdraws and says, no, no, no, it's not a big deal, I'm fine, I'm over it. I would experience like, again, I don't know your relationship, but I hear that as her saying, oh, you, you can't carry this. That's fine. You can't anchor you. You can't co. Experience healing with me. That's fine. That's cool. I'll keep doing this on my own. And so I would coach you. I would encourage you to go hold both of her hands and look her in the eyes and say, I didn't answer this. Right. I'm going to re. I'm going to re answer this. I am not scared about what happened with you. And I want you to put your feet on the ground, whether you're sitting down or standing up when you talk to her. And I want you to imagine roots growing from your feet all the way to the center of the earth. And I want you to look at her and say, I will be with you every single step of the way. Next to you, behind you, in front of you. But you decide what happens next. Because when you go to a. A woman who's been assaulted, who wants to go back out with a group of friends a few years later, and you want to begin to say, whoa, whoa, whoa, you can't do that. Those friends won't you. What you implicitly say is, you didn't get this the last time. You need somebody to guard you. Somehow you played a role in this. Do you get what I'm saying? And I know that's not what you're meaning to do, but I just want to give you the 360 degree experience here.

[Jake]

Yeah, I, I see what you have.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

To own how uncomfortable you and be pissed at her friends. That sucks that they didn't, they didn't show up for. But you have to own your discomfort. You can't hand your discomfort to Her. You can't hand your anger and rage to her. And you have to go see a counselor and deal with your anger and rage. And by the way, you should be incredibly enraged. I've been with the same woman for a quarter century. If I found out, if my. If she sat down was like, hey, I need to tell you this happened to me, I'd be right there with you. I would be enraged and wild. And she gets to choose what counseling looks like, and she gets to choose what going to the authorities are not looks like. And she gets to choose that, I don't want to do anything right now, but in a year from now, I might want to. And you experience your feet rooted to the center of the earth, and you let her know, I'm not scared of the feelings, of the pain, of the hurt. I am rooted here with you. Do you get what I'm saying?

[Zach]

Yeah.

[Jake]

Yeah, I do. I do. I just.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

You feel. It sounds like you feel powerless, helpless.

[Jake]

Yeah.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

And most men don't get to experience that feeling. Actually, they experience all the time, but they wallpaper over it. I want you to hold it. You gotta grieve it.

[Jake]

Yeah. I just. I just want everything. I just want to do everything for her. I'd want to protect her, take care of her, everything. And just knowing that it's. It's stupid to think, but, like, a part of me is like, damn, three years ago. Like, what if I was there?

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Like, that's not stupid. Why is that stupid?

[Zach]

I don't know.

[Jake]

Like, because we didn't even know each other existed.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

You are just. You're a good man. And I think it's fair to hold her hands when you're telling her, hey, I'm not scared of this. And I'm rooted here with you and letting her know I want to rescue you. I want to protect you. I don't want anyone to ever hurt you again. And you get to choose what happens next when it comes to healing here. And she will then exhale and know, okay, if I need to go to counseling, if I need to hug, if later on down the line we're being intimate, I need to stop. If I need to go away to impatient for a while, or if I just need to tell a bunch of, like, crass jokes and be uncomfortable, he's rooted. If I need him to protect me from my. Tell me not to go out with these stupid women again, I'll tell you. Right? But she gets to decide that.

[Jake]

Yeah.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

She doesn't need a dad. She needs. She needs an anchor Point. And I. And I'm telling you this with all love in my heart, you can't fix what happened. What you can be is you can be a powerful, strong support as she heals for the next however long.

[Jake]

I plan on doing that. I just haven't been. Just when I get in my own head, I don't.

[Zach]

I don't go to.

[Jake]

I don't want to tell any of my friends. I feel like it's way too personal of a thing to.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Yeah, it's her story to tell. It's her story. Yeah.

[Jake]

And I don't want to talk to her as well, because I don't want to bring it up. And because I know however I'm feeling, it was probably tenfold for her after that happened. And I don't want to bring that up and put her in that spot again.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Yeah. But we're not going to compare grief. It's not a contest.

[Zach]

Yeah.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

And I think you're right to not tell your buddies yet. That's her story to tell. And at some point, like, because your buddies, if this relationship keeps going, we'll have some shape, form, or fashion to be her buddies. Right. But I can tell by the emotion, like, you need to go talk to a counselor, dude. Because there's also a powerlessness in this story that probably has roots in your own childhood, too.

[Jake]

I never really thought about it that way.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

There's probably been other moments in your life when you were powerless. And the way many of us growing up, especially men, dealt with powerlessness is rage, big chests. I will come for you. It's the fight part of fight or flight. And right now you're fighting ghosts because it was three years ago. No one to fight.

[Jake]

Right, Right.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

An exercise. Well, I don't give you an exercise yet. I got a couple of things I would do if you and I were working together long term, but you're not ready there. I want you to go talk to a counselor and I want you to tell her, I want. I want to redo it. I want to redo that thing. It's haunting me that I didn't answer it the right way. I just let us watch a movie together after you put this big thing on the table. And I want to redo. Can I have a redo? And she'll probably be like, you don't need a redo. I'm fine. But no, no, no. It's for me. Will you do this for me?

[Jake]

Okay. Okay.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

And I'm not scared. And I'll be next to you in front of you, behind you, underneath you. You decide what happens next. But I am rooted. And we will be on this adventure together, wherever life takes us. And they may be finished with this sentence, you are safe with me. Cool.

[Jake]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Zach]

That's all.

[Jake]

I want her safe.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Okay? She needs it. She needs a co pilot. She needs a support system, not a father, not an instruction manual, not a somebody to filter her decisions and not somebody who inadvertently communicates to her. If you just done this, this, and this, this wouldn't happen. Like, that's. We're not doing that. Doing that. I am an anchor point here. I'll go to counseling with you. I will drive you. I will drop you off. I will sit with you for six months when you just can't go. I will choose to believe you and you say everything's all good. And then four months from now, when it's not good, I'm going to choose to hold you and love you. I am here. And she gets to decide what happens next. She's lucky to have you, my brother. She's lucky to have you. Blessings to you. Call anytime. We'll be right back. All right, good folks, I want to tell you about Cozy Earth. The holidays are coming in hot, but the weather is so cold and the holiday chaos is here. Travel, school, parties, more junk food than most of our bodies can handle. And family drama and Little Drummer Boy on repeat. But listen, more than ever at this time of year, for the sake of your physical and emotional and relational health, you need to plan in breaks from the madness. You've got to create a peaceful sleep environment. I call mine my sleep sanctuary. And for me and my family, a big part of our sleep sanctuary includes Cozy Earth pajamas and. And bed sheets. My wife is in love with the sleepwear. And I love the Cozy Earth bed sheets. They're made from viscose from bamboo, so they're smooth as silk and tough as iron. And during gift giving season, don't forget their otherworldly bath towels and mats. I love them. Cozy earth offers a 10 year warranty on all of their bedding. So when you find yourself in the middle of all the holiday chaos and the Purum pump, I want to help you establish your peaceful sanctuary with Cozy Earth. This weekend only. Good grief. Cozy Earth is offering a 45% discount exclusively for Dr. John DeLoney show listeners. This code is the best discount you'll find for Cozy Earth all year. Visit cozy earth.com DeLoney and use code Deloney to get their best products for your loved ones this holiday season. Don't miss out, 45% off, go to cozy earth.com/deloney. All right, let's go out to Dallas, Texas, and talk to Jane. Hey, Jane. What's going on?

[Jane]

Hi, Dr. John. How are you?

[Dr. John DeLoney]

I'm all right. How about you?

[Jane]

I'm blessed. I'm hanging in there.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Very good. What's up?

[Jane]

All right, so I'm 19. I just got married five months ago.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

That a girl. 19, huh?

[Jane]

Yes.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Excellent.

[Jane]

I'm incredibly nervous, so I'm just going to stumble through this here.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Oh, don't. Yeah, don't be nervous. But I know that's like saying, like, don't have brown hair. Like, that's. You can't help that. So just be as nervous as you want to be.

[Jane]

All right. So my husband has been struggling with some digestive health issues that have kept him from eating, kept him from keeping the food down that he does eat. And so he's extremely malnourished and underweight to provide just a 30 second background. We're both coming off of some pretty heavy childhood trauma on my end. My dad is a disabled veteran with PTSD and a cancer survivor, so I've always kind of taken on a caregiver role. And doctors and hospitals have just been a complete constant in my life, and I kind of thought I was stepping out of that. And now my husband's dealing with this health concern. So the problem is I've been in panic mode trying to get him to do all the steps he needs to take and heal, but he just kind of seems disinterested, like he's given up on himself. He's very hesitant to follow the doctor's diet or see personal counseling because the doctors have told us that it stems from his severe anxiety. So my question is, how can I help him to see the importance of his health when it feels like he's already given up?

[Dr. John DeLoney]

You've had a rough go of it, sister. Are you tired?

[Jane]

I'm. I'm really tired.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

And the men in your life are in pain, huh?

[Jane]

Yeah. And, you know, my husband is amazing and. But he also struggles with some anger stuff, just like my dad did. And so I guess when I got married so young and left the house, I kind of thought that I was getting out of that situation.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

No, you. We marry our unfinished business, as they say. Yeah, we marry our unfinished business. And that's a nerdy way of saying your body has been trying to solve your father for a long time, and it just moved that puzzle over to this new guy.

[Jane]

Yeah.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

And I'll Ask you, were you ever able to solve your dad?

[Jane]

No. I mean, just things have gotten better between us.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

But leave it there for a second and sit in that because that hurts to say out loud.

[Jane]

Yeah.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Because there's a nine year old little girl wondering why your dad keeps drinking and why your dad's so mad. And while your dad is banging the cabinets in the middle of the night when you're trying to sleep, scared to death, out of your mind, trying to hide under your covers. Right?

[Jane]

Yes.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Yeah, that was. You should not have experienced that as a little girl. I'm sorry. And the way your body tried to solve that was by learning everything from every doctor and every medical textbook and every Google search you could find, because you were going to solve and figure out what was wrong with dad. And I'm telling you right now, as a little girl, that wasn't your job. And I'm sorry that you had to take that on. Exhausting. You should have been out playing with your friends and being ridiculous and going on dates and listening to Taylor Swift and just being silly. And instead you were a home health care nurse to somebody who didn't want your help.

[Zach]

Right?

[Jane]

Right.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Where's mom and all this?

[Jane]

She had to have a full time job during most of that time. And I was homeschooled, so I was just in the house all day every day.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

So you were trapped inside of your own home with a bear?

[Jane]

Yeah.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Yeah. I'm sorry.

[Jane]

Thank you.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Can I tell you something that's gonna sound weird?

[Jane]

Okay.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

The way your nervous system is probably tuned up. Peace will feel like stress for you.

[Jane]

It's interesting that you say that because every time things start to feel okay, I feel like something's about to happen, if that makes sense.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

It's the shoe gonna drop syndrome. That's. That's, that's not the technical term for it. That's what I call it. And often waiting for the shoe to drop syndrome, people, they run around and start whacking shoes out of people's hands just to go ahead and let them drop now. And they cause problems where there's not any. Is that fair?

[Jane]

Yeah, that's fair.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Okay. You're not broken. Okay. There's not something, quote unquote, wrong with you. Your body's just trying to navigate a mess. And then you married a guy. What's his. What's his digestive challenges? Does he have Crohn's or ulcerative colitis or what's he got?

[Jane]

They thought that, but the test came back and said that he has Gastritis and ibs and that they're only so severe because of his anxiety.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Yeah, he's got. Yeah, he's got psychosomatic challenges. Where's his anxiety stem from?

[Jane]

Well, his. His mom left in his high school years and his dad is diagnosed bipolar, so. Yeah, he was not at peace at home either.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Yeah, no kidding, right? So an electric fence met an electric fence and y'all felt y'all fell in love, right?

[Jane]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

This is going to sound like a strange, invasive question, and you don't have to answer it if you don't want to, but what does physical intimacy look like with you guys? Is it constant? Is it a safe place? Is it non existent?

[Jane]

It. It's becoming more of a safe place. At the start of our marriage, it was feeling non existent because I had so much anxiety around it, like, is everything going to go perfect? And he kind of felt that for me, and he was feeling sick all the time, so it was physically challenging for him. So that has been a struggle for us.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Okay. How long have you all been married?

[Jane]

Five months.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Okay. Can I let you in on a secret about being married?

[Jane]

Sure.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Nothing goes perfectly. Nothing. Even the greatest night of sex will have weird stuff to it. Sounds, smells, all of it. Even the most romantic date in the world will be weird or more expensive than you thought. Or the waiter will look at you funny. It's just the way it is. And I'm telling you that as someone who also is an anxious person, where I found healing and peace was by opening my hand up and letting go. Because I was trying to control every variable. Because controlling every variable felt like that was going to keep me safe in a world that feels out of control.

[Jane]

Yeah.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

What you end up doing is squeezing so tight you suffocate. Now, here's why. If you go back and listen to all the questions I've asked you, I haven't one time told you or given you anything on how you can, quote, unquote, convince your husband to take care of himself. Because here's the demon. You can't. And until you drop your shoulders and weep bitterly into that reality, you're never going to be able to take a full breath because your chest is going to be so tight all the time.

[Jane]

I just. I get scared because he's.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

I know.

[Jane]

He's sitting right above the lethal BMI for men now and they're telling him that he has to do something right now.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

I know, but do you realize there's an electric fence talking to an electric fence?

[Jane]

Yeah.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

I think the greatest gift you can give him right now is peace. And the only way you can give something that you don't have is you got to go get it. And so the guy who trained me, Dr. Young, you can go back and listen to the episode, actually had him on my show. He's one of my heroes. He used to train. One of the core training sentiments he always gave us was calm is contagious. And in your home, if every sexual encounter, every touchstone, I say sexual encounter, but every physical interaction is electric, is performance based, this has to go right, or else you'll starve each other of the thing you need most, which is peace in each other. And if every meal, you're counting every bite and every calorie, your husband will know, every time he sits down to do something as silly as eat a meal, he is in front of a stage of thousands, and his body will go to fight or flight or freeze. And so there's something horrifying about making peace with somebody making their choices. And also, strangely, that's the only way when someone is just double over in anxiety. It's the only way they can begin to slowly exhale. It's peace putting out fires one by one by one. And so the thing that kept you safe as a kid, knowing every doctor appointment, talking to every doctor, knowing every medication, knowing all the. The AM pills and the PM pills that will destroy your adult marriage because your husband doesn't need a mom. He just needs a safe place to land. And like, you haven't been married very long, you don't know how to do that. I've been married forever. I'm still learning how to do that.

[Jake]

Right?

[Dr. John DeLoney]

And as soon as I think I've got what safe space means, my wife, she changes. She reads new books, she has new experiences, she has new spiritual insights, whatever, and she changes. So I got to reestablish what safety means. It's been just and vice versa, right? And so the beauty of marriage is you don't just get it, set it, and forget it. It's a constantly evolving, amazing thing. How can I love you today? And the only thing I ask of you is to tell me the truth. You have to promise to tell me the truth. And if the greatest thing I can do to love you today is to not bother you about what you're eating, okay, but I'm still making dinner. I'm going to have something out here that's safe and it's delicious. And then at some point, you need to make the decision. I can't Be in here and watch you long tail. They call it long tail suicide. I can't watch you just slowly wither away until you don't exist anymore. Yeah, that's a boundary I'm going to draw. I choose to not watch you die. And unfortunately, unless there's some diagnostic like diagnosable psychiatric challenges, it's hard to get a hospital to take away somebody's civil rights and commit them involuntarily. Right.

[Jane]

Trust me, I've looked into it.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

I know you have. Especially in Texas. And so it's tough. It's tough. Does he say he's not hungry? Does he say he doesn't want to deal with his anxiety? What's his response to that?

[Jane]

He says he's hungry, but that it'll just hurt if he eats or if he doesn't and so he doesn't want to deal with it.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Have they given him medications to help the pain?

[Jane]

Yeah, and they're not super effective. And if he sticks with the one he's on now, it'll be the first time he's actually stuck through with one long term. So I think that's another thing.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

And so that might be a conversation you guys have with, hey, I want to commit to two things. Skin on skin contact. It's going to hold you. It doesn't have to be sexual. It's going to, we're going to like. And it's a way to down regulate your nervous system. Brings peace. It's going to hold your foot. And by the way, I'm an anxious guy. I'm spun up a lot without even saying anything now. And I've been with the same person for, like I said, a quarter century, a long time. But I can be somewhere and I will just gently feel my wife's hand on my arm or she'll just grab my thumb or put her hand under the table on my knee and it's just a reminder to me to drop my shoulders. There's something magic about skin on skin. Or hold his face for 10, 20, 30 seconds, put your forehead on his forehead and just be still there. And if y'all commit to asking each other, how can I love you today? And he goes first and tells you and you respond to him, you can love me today by taking your medication even when you don't want to. That's a gift to me. You can love me today by doing what your doctor said. And you as a newlywed have to deal with or live in the reality that he might say, nah, I'm not going to Love you like that. Whew. That's hard. That's hard to hear, right?

[Jane]

Yeah.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

But often that. That's a way to frame it as a partner, as a romantic interest, as someone who is ride or die. You and me versus the world showing up and telling somebody, you need to eat, you need to take your pills. You need to do this. That's just another parent telling them something that I'm not gonna. I'm not doing that. So in the. In one way, I feel like I'm telling you it's like you're kind of powerless. In another way, I'm telling you the strength and power you have will come from the inside out, will become from peace, and it'll become from love, and it'll become from connection, not rules and rules and finger pointing. Do you hear that?

[Jane]

Yeah. And when I'm in that situation and I'm feeling scared and anxious, I know that I come off as angry because of that frustration. And I. I know that sets him off and makes things worse.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Hold on. He gets to choose that, too. I want to empower you both. You get to look at your husband and say, when you choose to do things behaviorally that I know that the doctors told us are hurting you, I get to be upset about that. I have permission to be angry and heartbroken about that. And he gets to choose whether he reacts to that. But the language in your house of you're making me and you're making. It's not true. Let's just pass in the buck. You get to choose anger. You get to choose frustration. You get to choose heartbreak. When the man you love, the man that promised you till death do us part, ride or die, is like, I'm not going to take my meds. I'm not going to do. The doctor said, I'm not going to go to counseling with you. I don't want to address my anxiety. You get to be sad about that. It'd be weird if you weren't, right?

[Jane]

Yeah.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Yeah. And just know your body's run in a program. It's seen this before with your dad, a man that you love, the man you were constantly asking, what am I not doing for you to get well and for you to love me. And I want you to hear me say, it's not about you with him, with your dad, and it's not about you with your husband. They both have demons that they have to decide. I want to heal. And for you, somebody that's been trying so hard to be seen of worth being worthy of being Loved. I want you to hear me say, you are. You are. You are. You are.

[Jane]

Mentally, you know, I can. I can know that it's their choice, but it still just feels like if I figure out the right code, the right sequence of words, then I know things would be different.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

They won't. I know I say this with a smile on my face. You don't have that kind of power. This is never about information. They both know.

[Jane]

Yeah.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

That's why I think the only path is peace. The only path is love. The only path is boundaries. So I think. I think beginning, like just starting today, I'm going to send you a copy of Building a Non Anxious Life. I'm going to send you two. One for you and one for him. And I want you to ask him, one of the ways you can love me is I want to read this book together. This is goofball podcast that I listen to. This guy's silly, but will you read it with me? This would be a neat way. You could love me and maybe let him know I've been hassling you about diet. I've been hassling you about these things. I'm gonna stop because it's not working. And I wanna be your wife, not your mom, but I love you to the moon and back. I love you more than life itself. And I get to be heartbroken when I'm watching you act in some of these ways. And I'm going to work on me. I'm going to work on finding and practicing peace. I've never had that in my life, ever. And I'm going to practice that now because I'm tired of practicing fighting and solving and electric electrocuting everybody. And Jane, I want you to commit to going to see a counselor. Okay?

[Jane]

Okay.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

There is healing from your anxiety. And it might be that your husband begins to feel peace in his life and he begins to say, oh, I want that. I want that. And I want y'all to start each day and end each day with some skin on skin contact. I want you to start each day and end each day with how can I love you today? Okay. Does that work?

[Jane]

Yes. Yeah, that works. And I've been meaning to get the Non Anxious Life book. So I'm excited.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

I'll send you two copies. One for you and one for him. Okay. I want you all to both read it and I want you to call anytime. But this is serious enough for you and for him that I want you to get some professional counseling and therapy. Put it in your budget. Figure it out. Don't Go out to eat, whatever, But I want you to go get some professional help. You've been through the wringer. Your body's tired, and you're only 19. You have a wild, rambunctious life left to live. He does, too. This. This isn't something that's going to be solved on a YouTube show or a podcast. You need to go get some professional help. I believe in you. Thank you so, so much for the call. Call any time chain. And if you want to, your husband can call also. Or if he wants to, he can call, too. We'll be right back. The budgeting and spending app that I love and I personally use is Every Dollar. And it's the greatest budgeting and planning app on planet Earth. Almost nothing stresses out a marriage like money issues. Couples fight about how to spend, how to save the cost of everything, which has gotten out of control, the lack of discipline, everything. And if you're single, trying to figure out how to even exist in the modern era of insane rent prices, food and fuel costs, car costs, and more is a nightmare. If you're ready to get serious about getting your money under control, I want you to try out every dollar. It will help you get control of your money, help you create a plan for paying off debt, saving for things that matter, and will even help figuring out areas where you need to earn more. If you want to accomplish your goals, go to everydollar.com deloney right now and you can try out every dollar for 30 days for free. That's everydollar.com deloney. Or go to the App Store and download every dollar and use promo code Deloney. Get control of your money with every dollar. All right, we're back. Kelly, what are the lyrics like? If you look, you can look. You can still.

[Kelly]

Time After Time by Cyndi Lauper.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

I know that. I know this part where it goes Time after time. What are the other words? If you hoof to the.

[Kelly]

I'll be waiting. See, that's all I remember. Time after time.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

I'm just guessing that's the most important part of the song is the time after time.

[Kelly]

I mean, it's called time after time. And that's the chorus.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

So a little bit on the nose there. A little bit on the nose a bit.

[Kelly]

But I.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Or subtle light.

[Kelly]

I don't remember you.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Dave Matthews fan. No, you such a liar. She has the DMB tattooed right across right above her belly button. And trust me, she wears midriff all the time.

[Kelly]

My belly button?

[Dr. John DeLoney]

No. Thug life's like a little bit Higher, like right above your rib cage. And if you didn't walk around in jean shorts and sports BRs all the time, we wouldn't know that. But that's how she rolls here. All right. Hey, check this out. This is awesome. The 50 Days of Christmas deals. This is a way to actually buy gifts for people that are going to contribute to their life and not end up in the trash. So check it out. Questions for humans. Couples on sale. 12 bucks. 12 bucks. Basically giving them away and building a non anxious life. 30% off. Nothing says I love you. Like buying a gift for somebody about living an anxious life. And you can be like, maybe you could take 30 or 40% off your life. And here's the book to do. So nothing says, like, you know what? Husband, wife, girlfriend, boyfriend, you know what? I love you so much, and you're a little bit spun up. Here's a book just for you. So where do they go? Ramsey Solutions.com store Ramsey Solutions.com store 50 Days of Christmas because why not hooking you up. Thank you guys for being with us. Satellite in my eyes State Matthews. Dude, you know this don't play koi.

[Kelly]

I'm not a jam band type of girl, so they. They definitely qualify. Qualify as that. I mean, I'm fine with like ants marching, but I saw them in concert. They opened for somebody and it was like three songs in an hour, and it's just not my thing.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

It was enough to send you straight to the tattoo parlor. So it struck a chord with you. Somehow, some way, she keeps coming up with every single day. Peace out, y'all. Love.