I’m in Love With Her (She Doesn’t Feel the Same)

Summary

Podcast Summary: The Dr. John DeLoney Show – “I’m in Love With Her (She Doesn’t Feel the Same)”

Podcast Information:

• Title: The Dr. John DeLoney Show
• Host/Author: Ramsey Network
• Description: A caller-driven show offering real talk on relationships and mental health challenges. Listeners are encouraged to send questions via voicemail or email.
• Episode: I’m in Love With Her (She Doesn’t Feel the Same)
• Release Date: November 1, 2024

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Introduction and Episode Overview

In this episode of The Dr. John DeLoney Show, Dr. DeLoney addresses complex relationship dynamics and mental health struggles through real caller interactions. The episode delves into themes of unrequited love, setting personal boundaries, overcoming trauma, and building self-confidence. Dr. DeLoney provides insightful, compassionate advice to help listeners navigate their emotional landscapes.

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Caller Stories and Discussions

1. Rick’s Struggle with Unrequited Love (00:19 - 15:02)

Caller: Rick from Salt Lake City
Issue: Rick expresses his deep love for a close friend and coworker who has explicitly stated she does not wish to pursue a romantic relationship until she is 40. Despite living together and sharing numerous aspects of life, Rick feels emotionally trapped and unable to move forward.

Key Points and Insights:

• Emotional Overattachment: Dr. DeLoney identifies that Rick has developed a seven-year emotional attachment, viewing the relationship as a romantic fantasy rather than recognizing it as a platonic friendship.
• Boundaries and Reality: Rick’s friend has set a clear boundary (“she was not going to be dating anyone until she was at least 40” 00:32), which Dr. DeLoney emphasizes as crucial for emotional health.
• Fantasy vs. Reality: Dr. DeLoney explains that maintaining hope for a romantic relationship when one person has clearly expressed no interest keeps Rick stuck in an unhealthy emotional loop. He describes this as “chasing a ghost” and encourages Rick to accept the reality to move forward.

Notable Quotes:

• Dr. DeLoney: “You are living in a fantasy for seven years, and there's an exhale to this.” 06:16
• Dr. DeLoney: “What you have with her is amazing. And you want to have a deep, passionate, powerful, romantic relationship.” 13:20

Conclusion and Homework: Dr. DeLoney advises Rick to redefine their relationship, suggesting they remain close friends without cohabiting. He assigns Rick a “homework assignment” to write a letter to his future wife, focusing on his true desires for a romantic relationship, thus encouraging him to visualize and strive for a healthier emotional future.

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2. Callie’s Challenges with Parenting and Personal Trauma (23:36 - 40:19)

Caller: Callie from Tallahassee, Florida
Issue: Callie discusses her struggles with setting boundaries with her 13-year-old daughter following a traumatic divorce. She reveals that her ex-husband engaged in inappropriate behavior, leading to their separation and ongoing emotional challenges within the family.

Key Points and Insights:

• Impact of Trauma: Dr. DeLoney highlights how Callie’s unresolved trauma affects her parenting, causing her daughter to exhibit defiant and clingy behaviors as coping mechanisms.
• Setting Clear Boundaries: Using the example of the dishwasher, Dr. DeLoney advises Callie to enforce simple, clear responsibilities for her daughter, reinforcing consistency and reducing confusion about roles within the household.
• Emotional Healing: Emphasizing the importance of personal healing, Dr. DeLoney encourages Callie to address her own grief and trauma to better support her children. He suggests practices like journaling, coherence breathing exercises, and seeking supportive communities to facilitate emotional release and growth.

Notable Quotes:

• Dr. DeLoney: “You're living in a fantasy. You need to move on and find a romantic relationship that meets your needs.” 06:16
• Dr. DeLoney: “You got to spend some time in grief... This is about you.” 15:20
• Dr. DeLoney: “You have to let that woman stand up and walk out of this concrete prison you’ve made for her.” 33:00

Therapeutic Techniques:

• Emotional Visualization: Dr. DeLoney guides Callie through a visualization exercise to tap into her emotions, encouraging her to recognize and release the internalized pain.
• Empowerment and Self-Worth: He emphasizes empowering Callie to see her own value and take steps toward personal healing, which in turn will positively influence her relationship with her daughter.

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3. Liz’s Decision to Change Jobs Despite Anxiety (46:36 - 54:31)

Caller: Liz from Milwaukee, Wisconsin
Issue: Liz is contemplating a job change after five years in her current position due to increasing frustration with her boss and concerns about the company’s future. Despite her interest in accounting and leadership, she battles with anxiety about making the transition.

Key Points and Insights:

• Autonomy and Self-Trust: Dr. DeLoney underscores the importance of Liz recognizing her own agency and trusting her capabilities, especially after extensive therapy aimed at overcoming anxiety.
• Challenging Negative Self-Talk: He advises Liz to combat her internal doubts (“you’re not smart enough”) by acknowledging her strengths and the logical reasons to seek new opportunities.
• Practical Steps: Encouraging proactive measures, Dr. DeLoney suggests maintaining a notebook to track and challenge negative thoughts, and to celebrate Liz’s competencies and readiness for change.

Notable Quotes:

• Dr. DeLoney: “You are smart enough intellectually and emotionally stable enough to be the head of finances at a company.” 48:58
• Dr. DeLoney: “If you just talk about it and talk about it and talk about it, but you didn’t practice it, that’s the next move.” 37:35

Actionable Advice:

• Reframing Success: Dr. DeLoney encourages Liz to view her job search as an opportunity to leverage her wisdom and leadership skills, rather than a risky endeavor.
• Confidence Building: By reinforcing Liz’s self-worth and affirming her abilities, he helps her build the confidence needed to pursue new professional horizons.

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4. Kelly’s Dilemma with Assisting Her Mother (56:36 - 58:09)

Caller: Kelly
Issue: Kelly grapples with guilt over setting boundaries with her mother, who has recently decided to move to Kelly’s city. Despite her mother’s need for support, Kelly resists providing financial assistance or housing, leading to feelings of guilt and questioning her actions.

Key Points and Insights:

• Boundary Setting with Family: Dr. DeLoney validates Kelly’s struggles with maintaining boundaries, especially when dealing with a parent’s needs.
• Reframing Responsibilities: He introduces the concept of viewing the situation as an opportunity (“I get to take care of my mom”) to foster a sense of empowerment rather than obligation.
• Personal Empowerment: Dr. DeLoney emphasizes the importance of Kelly recognizing her own limits and prioritizing her well-being while still offering moral support without overextending herself.

Notable Quotes:

• Dr. DeLoney: “Can you hear me? That 13-year-old girl of yours knows that you’re worth being loved too.” 41:25
• Dr. DeLoney: “I get to take care of my mom... I have the opportunity to help.” 58:09

Guidance:

• Empowerment Over Guilt: Encouraging Kelly to shift from feeling guilty to recognizing the privilege of being able to care for her mother in a controlled, healthy manner.
• Boundary Reinforcement: Advising Kelly to clearly communicate her limitations, ensuring that her boundaries are respected while maintaining a supportive relationship.

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Conclusion

In this episode, Dr. John DeLoney provides profound insights into handling unrequited love, setting boundaries, overcoming personal trauma, and bolstering self-confidence. Through Rick, Callie, Liz, and Kelly’s stories, listeners gain valuable strategies for managing complex emotional and relational challenges. Dr. DeLoney’s compassionate yet straightforward approach empowers individuals to confront their struggles, prioritize their well-being, and cultivate healthier relationships.

Notable Episode Highlights:

• Acceptance and Moving Forward: Emphasizing the importance of accepting reality to foster emotional health.
• Personal Healing: Encouraging deep personal healing to improve family dynamics and personal well-being.
• Self-Trust and Empowerment: Building self-trust as a cornerstone for making significant life changes.

For listeners seeking guidance on navigating emotional and relational hurdles, this episode offers practical advice and empathetic support to help embark on a path toward healthier, more fulfilling lives.

Transcript

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Hey, what's up? The team at Ramsey Solutions is giving away $5,000 in the Ramsey Christmas Cash giveaway. Don't miss your chance to win some [e-mail] giveaway coming up on the Dr. John DeLoney show.

[Rick]

I'm calling about my best friend and I guess that's kind of an understatement. I let her know that I didn't see her as a co worker or a friend and she told me that she was not going to be dating anyone until she was at 40.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

So I hold up. What? Yo, yo, yo, what's up? This is John, the Dr. John DeLoney Show. Shout out to everybody out there trying to navigate the fall heading into the holidays. Kelly, when does this show release?

[Kelly]

November 1st.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Oh, so we're just a few days out from presidential election when this thing's air. Luckily that's everybody's being cool about that. So that's good. No drama there. So hey, shout out to everybody trying to be good brothers and sisters and moms and dads and boyfriends and girlfriends and parents and sons and daughters. Whatever you got going on, man, hats off to you. It's a wild cat season and I just as a rule just don't get super worked up about stuff and I just finding myself getting worked up about everything. I think it's just in the water, in the air. So ma'am, so glad you are here. On the show we talk about your psychological health and your emotional health and your relational health. Whatever you got going on. That's the point of the show. I'm gonna sit with you. We're gonna figure it out. Give me a buzz at 1-844-693-3291 if you want to be on this show, 1-844-693- 3291 or go to john deloney.com ask a s k and let me know what's going on. Leave a message and we'll call you back and hope you're doing well. Let's go out to Salt Lake city to the Utes and talk to Rick. Hey, Rick, what's I'm doing good. What's up, man?

[Rick]

Well, I'm calling about my best friend and I guess that's kind of an understatement. My dad used to call her miracle girl before he passed away four years ago and we met at my mom's memorial service and her mom was trying to convince me to hire her daughter to do graphic design for me and I ended up doing that. And while we started Working together, I began to see her in a really different light. I realized I was able to have really deep conversations, philosophical conversations, and neither one of us were bored or not on the same page. And she was also extremely supportive. In this time of my life where I felt like I'd pretty much lost everything. I lost my mom, I lost my grandmother six days before, and I lost my son because his mom took him and ran to another state with our son. And so I was feeling pretty, pretty alone. And, you know, when I realized that she was this most amazing person, I let her know that I didn't see her as a co worker or a friend. And she told me that she was not going to be dating anyone until she was at least 40. So I.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Hold up. What?

[Rick]

Well, you know, I think. I think that kind of stems from some of her own family trauma.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

No, you don't say. Hey, even. I've heard a lot of boundaries in my life, and that's the first time I've ever heard that boundary. I will date when I'm 40. I don't even know what to say to that, man. I. Dude, you know me. You listen to. I talk too much. And that one, just. That one. That one shut me up, man. I don't know what to say. All right, so you are. You are, over time, madly in love with somebody. And I guess she works for you. Does she work with you?

[Rick]

No. So I think I want to fast forward a little bit. So in 2019, I decided to move to Utah and move with my dad and his wife. And I invited her to come with, and I figured, you know, I'm gonna have a lot of extra room in this new house. And she decided she was up for the adventure. So for the last five years, we've been living together in separate rooms, but we've traveled all over the country together. We've continued to work together. We cook together, we go to church together, we work out at the gym together. We do, like, everything together, and we even watch your show together.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Do you all sleep together?

[Rick]

Do we what?

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Have you all ever slept together?

[Rick]

No, no, no, no, nothing like that.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

I love you like. No, no, no, not that. Not that, Jeff. We just worship and travel and eat and cook, and we share the most intimate parts of our lives. Except for that. Okay. And so my guess is she still doesn't want to marry you.

[Rick]

Yeah, that's. Well, yeah, that's what it seems to. To be the thing. And I. I think that. In fact, here's the funnier part. We. We watched your show with the Harvard. The interview with the Harvard professor.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Oh, Dr. Brooks. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Rick]

We loved it. And the thing that we were noticing is that he talked about these stages of falling in love. And, you know, it's like we didn't. We didn't have that. We kind of jumped from the. We didn't really know each other that well to working together and then just doing life together. And so we didn't have this kind of phase of the drama, if you will, of falling in love. And I think that for her, you know, one of the things she. She talks about is like, I don't feel the fireworks. I don't feel, like, the spark or, you know, something magical. And yet we do our lives together so beautifully, and we just have so much fun together.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Dude, I'm going to break your heart right now, but I'm going to tell you the truth. Is that okay?

[Rick]

Absolutely.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

How long is. It's been. Seven years.

[Rick]

Yep.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Yeah. This is seven years of drama. You didn't avoid the drama. You are in it up to your eyeballs, and here's why. You've held out hope. And when you meet somebody in the whirlwind of the loss you endured on the heels of the loss of. I'm assuming your first marriage. Is that right?

[Rick]

We weren't married, but, yeah, it was a. We were. We were living together for 11 years.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Okay. Oh, my gosh, dude. I. I mean, the word that just keeps coming to mind is you've been living in a fantasy for seven years, and there's an exhale to this. This is a harder, more practical question. Do you. Does she pay rent?

[Rick]

Yeah.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Market rent or buddy rent?

[Rick]

No, no, no. Market.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Okay. Yeah, she. She's got a pretty good setup. She's a guy that loves her, the guy that. That takes care of her in every way, but she does not have to make the same emotional commitment.

[Rick]

Right?

[Dr. John DeLoney]

And y'all are very, very close friends in that you do life together. Y'all are not close friends in that you keep burying a part of yourself in order to maintain proximity to this fantasy. And if she truly loved you like a close, deep, intimate friend, not. Not sexually, not romantically, but deep, intimate friend. She would have moved out because she knows she's torturing you. And if you loved you as much as you love the idea of her, you would have said, hey, I need to sell this house. I need to find my own place or buy this house, but I need you to find your own place. This is unhealthy for me, and I do Want to have a deep, powerful, romantic relationship one day, and it's not going to be with you. I've got to move on with my life.

[Rick]

I think the hard part for both of us is that we both value the relationship that we have very much, because neither one of us have ever met someone like the other in that we don't have. Like, she's never had somebody in her life that, you know, has been the kind of person I've been in her life. And that also goes in reverse. I've never met anyone like her. And I think that's part of why this is such a struggle, is because it's like, I don't think either one of us wants to lose this thing that we have. But she also. There's also this. This kind of, you know, separation in terms of how each of us feel about each other.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

You want more, though, right? And she's got her perfect setup. She does. She wants. Didn't want to be romantically, like, with somebody for. Till she was 40. She got. She got the dream set up. She got the provision, the protection. She got the ride or die. She's got the meal provider. She's got the travel security. But she doesn't have to do the next more scary, terrifying thing, which is be vulnerably intimate with somebody. And I'm not telling her that she has to do that with you.

[Rick]

Right.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

What I'm seeing is there's a. There's a. It's almost parasitic. And listen, if you were not every day waking up, seeing her saying, you are the woman of my dreams. And she's saying, no, no, you're the friend of my dreams. If y'all weren't doing that, and y'all are just roommates, that's great. Y'all are too, like, close, close buddies. You know what I mean? And y'all, like, live together and y'all both dating other people and doing life like, I got no problem. Fine. Knock your lights out.

[Rick]

Right?

[Dr. John DeLoney]

That's not the case here. Every day you're chasing a ghost, and so you get in this weird spiral of, I want this to be something more than it is, and she wants it to be the same forever and ever. And both of those are fantasies, right?

[Rick]

Well, part of what, you know, for me, like, you know, what I've been trying to do is rather than play the game of demanding that she just automatically feel different, I've been working on me to say, hey, what do I have to do to be more attractive?

[Dr. John DeLoney]

I know, but you don't hear what you're saying. You don't hear what you're saying. She said no. She said no. It's not about you. It's not about something you've done wrong. It's not about something that you are not. Because if it was something that was wrong with you or something you are not, she wouldn't travel with you. She wouldn't live in the same house as you. She wouldn't cook and share meals with you. It's not about you. It's about her. She said no. And that's why I say she's a fantasy for you, because she allows you this illusion of this carrot that just keeps moving every time you get close, it just moves and it moves and it moves. It's this finish line, but it allows you not to re. Engage in the real world. And it allows you to. In a. Not narcissistic, but I'm talking about the. The myth of narcissists. Like, it allows you just to keep looking in the. In the reflection of yourself in the. In the pool and saying, what about me? What about me? What about me, dude? Has nothing to do with you. She said no. And there's an exhale there. Does that make. Does that make sense?

[Rick]

You know, it makes sense on a logical level. And I think the hard. The hard part is figuring out. And I. And I'm sure this is probably true for her, too. It's like, I don't think either one of us, you know, we want to hold on to whatever that is that we. The magic that we do have. And I think the hard part is just saying, you know, as good as that magic is, it's not good enough for.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

I think that's the wrong thing. I don't want you to. Because what you're doing is you're categorizing like my. I've got multiple friends. Like, I just went and did an event for a buddy of mine named Tucker. We've been friends for over 30 years. We met in middle school. My buddies Ryan and Caleb and Chris, dude, I've known them since I was 0. 40 plus years. Right? Like, you don't. You don't get those. Those are not less than my marriage to my wife for a quarter century. They're different, right? And so trying to categorize like, it's never going to be as good as. No, no, no, dude, what you have with her, See, I trust you. It's amazing. It's awesome. But it's not this romantic adventure that you want to go on, right? This becoming one Y'all are incredible roommates. You are not. One plus one equals one. Y'all aren't a new math problem, and you desperately want it to be.

[Rick]

That's true.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

But I think. I think you constantly saying, okay, how do I work on me? I'm going to get in better shape. I'm going to make more money, I'm going to be nice, or I'm going to try new foods. I'm going to go to visit exotic locations that she wants to go in. All those activities keep you from having to grieve, the fact that you've got to move on to find a romantic one for the rest of your life.

[Rick]

Right.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

It's a Xanax. It's a fantasy.

[Rick]

Got it.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

And y'all can still be amazing, close, wonderful friends, but you can't share a house, dude, because I don't want to. I don't want to date somebody who's like, this is my super best, perfect, wonderful human, except they just wouldn't marry me. So I decided to bring you home. I can't do that.

[Rick]

Yeah, exactly.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Not to mention. I just. I just cast that out that way. Not to mention you, because every morning you wake up to have breakfast and you're playing it. You're playing theater, Right? Because I want to imagine this. That this would be us having breakfast, and I want to imagine that I get to see how beautiful you are every morning with no makeup.

[Rick]

Right.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

And she gets to imagine what it'd be like waking up and having a providing, strong man in the house, but not really having to go all in when it comes to vulnerability and intimacy and building a romantic, erotic life together.

[Rick]

Right? Yep.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

I hate that, man.

[Rick]

Yeah.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Can I tell you, more than anything, I want her to be yours. I mean, not yours, like, possession wise, but I want her to be your. Your person.

[Rick]

Right.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

And she's told you for seven years it's not going to happen.

[Rick]

Yeah.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

And ultimately I would say keep being roommates, keep being best friends. I don't know that you can right now.

[Rick]

Yeah, I. I think you're right. And that's. That's a tough. It's really hard for me to have that, to make that admission, I guess.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

I know. You know, you got to spend some time. I got to spend some time with grief, brother.

[Rick]

Yeah.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

And you've heard me say this, but it's just that gap between what I wanted to be true and what actually is right. You know what I mean? I wanted my grandma, my grandmother, my granddad. I wanted them to live forever because they're awesome and they're wise and they're hilarious and snarky and funny and they died. Right?

[Rick]

Yeah.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

And I wanted the first time, the first 10 years of my marriage to be awesome. It wasn't. And a lot of it was because of me. You know, like, I gotta grieve that and then I gotta go do the next right thing.

[Rick]

Yeah, I've. I've learned a ton, you know, and, and, and I will say that I think that, you know, I, I'm not one of those people that's had lot of relationships in my life. I've. I've had two significant relationships and, you know, I. And that was it. I've been very. I grew up in a very conservative home and my parents were. They gave me a great role model for most of my life. And so, you know, so much of what I see in my. In my bestie, I really see the same dynamic that my parents had. And, you know, maybe that's more valuable to me because I see the ebb and flow and how beautiful that synergy kind of works together. But maybe it's not as valuable for her because she didn't have that growing up.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

No, stop, stop, stop, stop doing that. Stop. Stop playing comparison. What you have with this woman is great. It's amazing. Once in a lifetime, and there's a period, it's not the full extent of what you want your adult life to be, right? So it's not an either or, it's a both. And what you have with her is amazing. And you want to have a deep, passionate, powerful, romantic relationship.

[Rick]

Right?

[Dr. John DeLoney]

It's not an either or. It doesn't matter about her childhood. I'm sure that there may be that your parents didn't have a great romantic relationship, but they were great co managers of a household. And you're reimagining that. Who. I'm going to say this, and it sounds weird because I'm always saying the opposite. It doesn't matter. It doesn't matter. What matters is, right, the second. Right, you have the depth and a powerful friendship and a loving friendship, and you want something else.

[Rick]

Right?

[Dr. John DeLoney]

And it's just. It's not trying to figure it out, not trying to map it. It's not trying to go backwards and forwards and up and down and why me and why you? And I'm going to keep working harder because one day I'm going to win you. She, for seven years, the better part of a decade, has looked at you and said, no, no, I want part of you. I don't want all of you. And for seven years, you've been willing to not accept all of somebody and not to live fully all of you, because you've been hoping and hoping and hoping and hoping and hoping. And that's why I got to spend some time in grief, man. It's not going to happen. She told you that. And I think that the most honoring friend thing you could do is to honor it and say, cool. We're going to stay close, close friends, and I'm going to start dating. I'm going to need you to move out, and we'll still hang out, we can still have coffee together, whatever. But I'm going to begin to turn my sights upward because I don't think I'm a problem. I don't think there's a thing that I don't bring to the table that will. Then one day you'll go, oh, that's. I don't think there. I don't think there is. I think I'm working really hard. I think I'm a pretty good man. Like, I've done incredible work on myself. I think I'm. I'm. I'm valuable and worth being in a romantic relationship. And maybe I want to have a romance, and I want to have kids, and I want to make this kind of life. And I'm going to honor the fact that you, for seven years, have said no. Fantastic. But I'm going to move on. And, bro, that's going to rip your heart out because you wanted it to be different, and it's just not. Sorry, man. Thanks for letting me honor you enough just to sit with you and tell you the truth. And, man, she wants to call in. If she's a show listener, happy for her to call in, too. Y'all can both call in, but I'm really grateful that you let me sit with you for a few minutes. Here's your homework assignment. I want you to write a letter to your future wife. The woman you haven't met yet, not the fantasy. That's your roommate. But I want you to write a letter to your future wife. Tell her you're coming for. And tell her what you really want, what you expect, what you hope when it comes to romance and eroticism and love and sensuality and sexuality. I want you to tell her I'm coming for you. I'm gonna come find you, and I'm gonna take my head out of. Out of the mirror. I'm gonna take my head out of the mirroring pool. I'm gonna start looking up Because I'm coming to find you. Thanks for the call, my brother. We'll be right back. Hey, it's Deloney and I want to talk to you about Merrick Health, an amazing health optimization platform. Merrick Health's coaching and treatment plans meet you where you are in your health and fitness journey and they give you the next right steps to help you get where you want to go. Merrick Health has two packages for blood work and coaching and both can be paid for within hsa. If you've never done this type of in depth blood work before, you can start with the core package. This is the one my wife is doing. The core package offers Extensive lab work 84 carefully selected biomarkers like hormone testing for estrogen markers and testosterone and body composition and cardiovascular health, metabolic health and more. And with the core package you get a thorough analysis of your blood test and a video call review with americealth Coach. Or if you're like me and you want to do all the testing available, you can check out the all in package. This includes everything in the core package plus some top end specialized testing that helps me dial in everything exactly how I want it. Good folks, it's time for you to choose reality. And that means stepping up and taking personal control of your health. 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[Callie]

Hey, how are you doing?

[Dr. John DeLoney]

I'm doing fantastic.

[Callie]

Thanks for taking my call.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Of course. Thanks for calling. How can I help?

[Callie]

I have a question about boundaries and my 13 year old daughter.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Yeah, I think you've called the wrong show. You have to call. Call Kelly. I'll give you her cell number.

[Callie]

Okay, I'll try one day have a 13 year old daughter. So let's practice on Maple.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

I've got one in the chute. She's coming and. Whoa. So. All right, go for it.

[Callie]

Her dad and I got a divorce when she was 6. And with that, coincidentally, it was because obviously boundaries were crossed. So we already have boundary struggles from the beginning with her and she is.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Let me clarify real quick. Boundaries. You called about boundaries with her, but then you just said boundaries are crossed. What, did your husband do something?

[Callie]

Yeah, yeah, he did. And so with her. No, no, no, no. But I do. I don't really know how to say this. We got divorced because I'm pretty sure he was grooming a 14 year old. And I was like, no.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Okay, so did he cheat on you or you just saw the behaviors coming up? Okay.

[Callie]

No, yeah, he did. That was like. Yeah, it was a whole. That's another question, Tom.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Okay, well, it provides some context here and I just want to make sure I've got all my ducks in a row. Okay. So husband's not a good man at all. And then y'all got a divorce when she was six.

[Callie]

Yes.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Okay.

[Callie]

And her younger sister was three.

[Rick]

Okay.

[Callie]

And so anyway, through that, I went through very intensive therapy. I put her in therapy and we have. I've since remarried. Her dad has since remarried. And now that we are moving forward, I feel like most days I'm raising a feral cat instead of a happy puppy that she used to be, which I know is developmentally normal. And I try to let natural consequences be the best teacher. And I'm trying. She used to really like. I like, hates a strong word, but I felt like she hated me because she blamed me for a lot of things. But through her growing up and having the proper cognitive development that all the professionals kept telling me what's coming just to hang on, and it finally showed up. And I appreciate it. She found the plot holes in the story and put things together on her own. And now we're really close. So just something simple, like if me or her stepdad asked her, you know, to do something like unload the dishwasher, that's her one job in the house all the time. Everybody in the house knows that's what she does. And you can be like, hey, go, you know, in pass and just unload the dishwasher. And then I move on to the other three siblings in the house and, you know, move on the day and it's just still not done. And she's like, oh, I forgot. And then so I have to literally get her back in there and be like, okay, you've got to do this. And I'm like, in my mind, I'm going, she's 13. I don't understand, like, you understand the words coming out of my mouth.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Let's just use that as an example.

[Callie]

Okay?

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Hey, you got one job. Like your role. This house doesn't work without you. You got one job, and that's to empty the dishwasher. And the way you just described it to me is that her 13 year oldness understands that if she doesn't empty the dishwasher, at some point mom will come find her and mom will take her in and say, you didn't do the dishwasher. I know you can hear me. Or like Chris Tucker, like, do you understand the words that are coming out of my mouth? Right? And like, you're gonna do the dishwasher and then she goes and she empties the dishwasher. Is that fair?

[Callie]

Yeah.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Or you get frustrated and just do it yourself because you're trying to clean the kitchen.

[Callie]

I actually do not do that. It will sit there till she comes and does it. Okay, So I don't know, maybe I should. This is a boundary question. But I feel like that's her one job that's constant.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

I don't think she thinks that's her one job. I think she thinks her one job is to make sure mom is okay and she knows how to do that. And this other thing is whatever, I think she innately knows she has a deeper job and that's to make sure that mom knows that she's okay.

[Callie]

She thinks she has to protect me because her dad is really nasty when it comes to me. And she goes over there every other weekend.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Why in the world, why in bloody hell is she still going to that man's house?

[Callie]

Because legally, I mean, I went to the authorities and I mean in the system that we live in, even what I have, they're like, yeah, that's creepy. But you can't do anything about it.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

The only thing that matters is what your nervous system communicates to her when y'all are together. And if she gets, if you start to drive her over to dad's house or your stepdad does and she feels that car filled with electricity, what she is internalizing in her guts is they're scared to death. For me, A, they don't think I can handle this, and B, they're not okay. And 13 year olds learn real quick how to make mom and dad feel okay if they have to, lie to them, if they have to, whatever, they understand it's my job. And when you come unhinged, when she doesn't do her one freaking job, which is so little responsibility for a 13 year old, by the way. But if you come unglued or just, oh my gosh, you have one job, what she knows is this person is not stable or as Dr. Kennedy called, sturdy enough to anchor into. I'm going to find other things, other people, other whatever to anchor, even myself. I'll anchor into me my relationship with my daughter and her behavior as a 6, 7 and 8 year old. It transformed when I went to counseling, when I went and saw a trauma therapist and dealt with me because my 6 year old and 5 year old and 4 year old and 8 year old were trying to navigate a nuclear reactor inside my chest. And she couldn't do it. She's too small. She didn't have the strength to do that. So she tried to do it with defiance, she tried to do it with anger, she tried to do with rage, she tried to do with any number of ways to get to her dad, but it was my issues. And so it's so weird when I tell parents in your situation who desperately love their kids and you're doing all the right external things, you're giving their kid responsibility, you're not letting them talk back, you're having the right Conversations. But the thing you're avoiding is dealing with that hole inside your chest. And that kid is trying to fill it all day, every day. So let's move her to the side for a second. Callie, how are you?

[Callie]

Well, I thought I was okay, but it's because I've had to be.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

There you go. Get underneath the have to be. How are you?

[Callie]

Probably tired would be the best word.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Tell me about that.

[Callie]

I am the anchor of my home for sure.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

What about your husband?

[Callie]

It's something we're working on, but he definitely regulates off of me and because I'm just a very strong personality. And I'm actually another call. Seriously. But working on being more submissive. And I just walked out a huge one this past week that was like. Even the kids got to see it. So, you know. But I do understand this about myself. I do understand I'm a control freakish kind of. Because my old life was blown up in my community and my home and everything. But my car keys and my kids, and they were even half taken from me. Was taken from me by choices I did not get to have a part of our stay in.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Okay, hold on, hold on, hold on. I want you to sit right there, okay?

[Callie]

I try to sit here, but I don't know what to do with it.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

I know your shoulders are up around your ears right now. Drop them as low as you can. Okay.

[Callie]

That is so creepy. How did you know that?

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Because I can hear it. Drop them. Okay.

[Callie]

Okay.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Now I want you to go all the way back to the moment the attorney said the divorce is final, but you just lost half.

[Callie]

Okay?

[Dr. John DeLoney]

No, don't do that. Sit in it. Put your hand. Put your fist in your chest and tell me what it feels like. Where is it in your body right now?

[Callie]

Where my hands at?

[Dr. John DeLoney]

When you're sitting there saying, no, no, no, no. This guy is cheating on me. He's grooming a child. He's a horrible person. And your attorney says, hey, you're free, but you got to give up half. Is it in your chest?

[Callie]

Mm.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

What you did that day was right. You built a concrete fortress around yourself because that bastard took half. But more than that, he took everything from inside of you.

[Callie]

And that's accurate.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

And you built concrete. And that concrete allowed your kids to have something to anchor into, allowed this new husband to have something to anchor into. But inside, there's a 28 year old woman with her face between her knees, with her arms around her shins, sobbing, that keeps having to get up and go again and keeps up and having to go again. And until you let that woman stand up and walk out of this concrete prison you've made for her, your kids are going to be banging their head against that concrete trying to get to their mom's heart. Your husband's not going to do a damn thing because he doesn't have to. You have enough concrete in you for a foundation of a six bedroom house he can, he can sleep in. I don't even know if it's an act of submission. I don't even know if I don't even like that word in this particular context. I think it's an act of together. It's vulnerability. It's, hey, I got married again and that means I give you the opportunity to hurt me again like that other guy did. Please don't. And everything in your body says, don't do that. Is that fair?

[Callie]

Yeah.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Exhale for me. You're not breathing.

[Callie]

I'm not.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Exhale. Okay, take one more real deep one. And he wasn't the first one, was he? No.

[Callie]

But it wasn't marriage, you know, like, stop. Well, there's a difference, you know.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

There is, but listen, you've got like a little Russian doll of decreasing, of women and children, little girls inside your body that go layers and layers and layers. And you are doing a great job of protecting them because they got hurt bad and you had bills to pay. You have mouths to feed and you've done a great job protecting them. But that electricity, that's what your daughter feels. And she will not participate because she loves you to the moon and back. She will not participate in further hurting you. And you would think, well, then why don't you just empty the dishwasher? Some kids do. And that's why they say straight A's can be a trauma response too. Sometimes kids get exhausted and forget things and stumble over things and don't want to do things. They get exhausted trying to hold their moms and dads up because they love them too. And none of this, by the way, is conscious. And so the challenge I want to put before you is this. Can you hear me? Love and honor and cheer you right now for who you are and who you've become because you had to be.

[Callie]

Okay.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Okay. I'm proud of you. And you have a history of doing the next scary, courageous, brave, right thing, don't you?

[Callie]

I would say so.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

I think so. And so I want you to see the next courageous, right, scary hard thing is to begin freeing 6 year old you and 14 year old you and 22 year old, you let them go, man. And unwind that knot that's in your chest. Then you can get to emptying the dishwasher kind of stuff.

[Callie]

I guess I just don't know like how to unwind it because the only therapy or I mean I did have six months of intensive because the company that my ex worked for actually paid for it for me because it was such a bad situation. So I was very grateful for that. But then with the way insurance is working stuff, I'm paying out of pocket for both, both of those girls because I have four kids, but tour with my ex. So they're both in therapy for different reasons and I've kept them in it because if I feel like that's the next right thing you would say just in case something ever does come out.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

The next right thing is you.

[Callie]

Yes, yes, I agree with that. I'll have to figure out how to maneuver some finances to do that.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Check with your kids counselor and ask if it's okay to go to every other session because you're going to go finally let those women go. And if you went to an intensive where you talked about it and you talked about it and you talked about it but you didn't go practice it, that's the next move. What is prac. What does practicing it look like? Here's what it looks like. I say this ad nauseam on the show. I want you to write 23 year old you a letter and say I'm sorry because you still have guilt that you had kids with this guy. You still have guilt that you had kids in that house where this was going on. You have guilt that you didn't reach out to this other 14 year old girl and protect her too. You've got guilt everywhere. Let that girl, let that woman go. You have guilt for yourself that how in the world could I be so untrustworthy that I got in a relationship with this dude? Is that fair?

[Callie]

Yeah.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Okay. You gotta open your hands to that and let it roll.

[Callie]

I think probably why I struggle with that so much is because seriously, like it was almost like a midlife crisis. Like stuff started showing up that had never been seen before in our over decade marriage. And it was so bizarre and just so like it was a shock to everybody and it was such a public ordeal. It was a very public situation and it was, it was just strange. And so I was strange.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

It was strange, but it was also shameful and embarrassed and infuriated all those things.

[Callie]

Yes, I went dark. Like I, I deleted everything and I even Come back with a different name so people can't find me.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

You know why? Because you had to go reclaim your name. Yeah, go reclaim who you were. This is a call about empowerment. You're trying to figure out ways to submit. That's not what I want you to do. I want you to reach your hand out and metaphorically pull those women up and say, go. I want you to pour those little kids up and say, go.

[Callie]

Well, probably that makes sense for my number four that I didn't ask because my daughter is very like not normal for a 13 year old girl. I don't think she's very like clingy. Like literally will crawl up in my lap if I'm sitting in a chair and just, you know, won't meet a love on her like I do her little two year old brother, you know, and she calls me bestie and she'll be talking, she'll like, hey, girl. And I'm like, I'm your mama.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

I know, but listen, that just further confirms everything I've been saying.

[Callie]

Yeah, I know, that's what I'm saying, but like, can I let her still call me that?

[Dr. John DeLoney]

You called her. No, no, no, no, no. It's not about the words. It's not about the words.

[Callie]

Okay.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

I have a dog that is part lab, part Australian shepherd. A very attuned dog. On the few days in the last 10 years when I've come home sobbing because something just broke me, that dog comes and lays its head on my lap. She's a work dog, but she knows she can't do her work unless I'm okay. And we often think when a kid gets clingy that it's for them quit clinging. And sometimes that clinging is a meshment. It's for us. And they learn. I can turn the thermostat in this house down by getting close. There's a trauma response called fight, and there's one called freeze. And there's also one called Fawn. I'm gonna nuzzle really, really close. And sometimes it's. It's sexual when there's like a, like a, like an abusive romantic partner. But kids can nuzzle up too. The safest place is right up close. Do you get what I'm saying?

[Callie]

I do.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Here's what I want you to hear me say. That 13 year old girl of yours knows that you're worth being loved to. I need Callie to believe that.

[Callie]

It's like I say I do, but I'm like, well, am I living like I do? Because that's different.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

That's very, very different. You're exactly right. You got the right words. And that's where, moving forward, I want you to go figure out the money part. And if I want you to sit on your husband and say, I need you to go work a bunch of new Uber shifts and you do take on some overtime because I'm going to go get well, by the way, this is not forever. It's just not. But it is intense and intensive is not just talking about it and talking about it. It is practicing with coherence breathing exercises. It's practicing with journaling. It's practicing getting in a room with other friends who are women and saying, here's what my body's doing this week. How are you guys? It's getting some sort of faith practice, getting some sort of exercise practice. It is going to meet with a physician if you need to. It's beginning to live out. It's writing letters to your younger selves and saying, hey, you're okay. This was never your fault. This is never your fault. Go be free. It's writing a letter to your future self and saying, hey, here's the home we're going to have. It's going to be warm and full of laughter and full of joy. And my kids are going to have a tough road because their dad was a terrible human being. It's just gonna be tough. But they're always going to know that there's warmth and safety here so that that 18 year old curls up in your lap because you feel safe, not because that's how they've figured out how to turn the energy in the room down. Kids, almost always, not always, but almost are a. They absorb the tension in their homes. They absorb the tension in the closest adult relationships that they have. So our kids are tuning forks, moms and dads, and this is me. I'm going first in line here. We got to look in the mirror and say, okay, I think I'm all right. I'm going to go sit down and start talking. I'm going to ask a friend, I'm going to ask a loved one. I'm going to ask people that I trust adults and say, do you feel it on me? And often they'll go, oh, yeah, totally. I'm going to go to that work. I'm going to go do that work. And check with your kids counselors, if they've been going regularly for month after month, year after year, now you're doing it just in anticipation of some future maybe. Then ask, hey, is it okay if we back off and go every other week, go once or twice a month now for the next few months because I'm going to take that money, I'm going to, I'm going to go get the help I need, check out that cut back on eating out. Do whatever you got to do. I'm so grateful for the call. Kelly, your bravery is going to help a whole bunch of men and women out there listening. But I want you to decide you're worth going to get well and you're going to work on practicing dropping your shoulders inside your own house. Thank you so, so much for the call, my sister. Thank you. We'll be right back. This show is sponsored by Better Help. This month is all about gratitude. And most of us have a person or two we'd like to shout out for helping us out somewhere along our life's journey. I'd like to take a moment to thank two people who have transformed my life. One is the great Marilyn Fannin. And two is the great and powerful Dr. Jean Will Thompson. Marilyn gave me a chance when no one should have. She brought me along and taught me poise and professionalism and she challenged me when I needed help. And Jean Noel taught me how to be a dad, a husband, a professional, and how to balance the seemingly impossible weight of caring for a whole bunch of people all at the same time, big time. Thanks to Marilyn and Jean Noel and for all you listeners. I know you have people in your own life that you're grateful for and hopefully you stop and thank them. But there's one person that we often don't take time to think enough ourselves. We don't always acknowledge that we're surviving or moving forward. We're grinding towards a better life, better relationships and a better world. And in a world where everything's gone bonkers, this isn't easy. So here's my reminder to thank the people in your life, including you. And sometimes we need more than just a thank you. We need some professional and personal help. We need to talk to someone who is trained to help us discover true gratitude for ourselves and others, especially during the holiday seasons. That's why I recommend my friends a BetterHelp. BetterHelp is 100% online therapy. You can talk with your therapist anytime, so it's convenient for your schedule. Just fill out a short online survey to get matched with a licensed therapist. Plus, you can switch therapists at any time for no extra cost. This holiday season, let the gratitude flow with better help. Visit betterhelp.com deloney all right, let's Go to. I was going to say Will. Walkie. Milwaukee, Wisconsin. Wisconsin. And talk to Liz. Hey, Liz, what's up?

[Liz]

Hey, John. I'm so excited to talk to you. And I'm nervous at the same time.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

I'm excited, and I'm also nervous. I want to do a good job. All right, so let's. We'll jump together. Ready?

[Liz]

Okay, sounds good. All right, so my question for you is, how do I determine if it's the right time for me to start looking for a new job?

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Do you want to get a new job?

[Liz]

Yes, I do.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Okay, stop. That's it. Look for a new job. Does that make sense? Like. Well, we put so much. Go ahead and talk and then we'll loop back.

[Liz]

Okay, well, so a couple things. So I've been at my job for five years. I like what I do. I'm 56 years old, but I'm becoming increasingly frustrated with my boss and the direction that he's taking the company. At the same time, I've been in therapy the last two and a half years, healing lifelong anxiety and just trying to determine am I ready for. Am I ready to do something new and maybe the stress that's involved with that. Yeah. As far as why I'm wanting to look for another job, I guess what's frustrating me. I'm the head of the finance department, and I'm just getting frustrated with the lack of leadership that my boss has. And I'm seeing things that make me concerned for the. How long the company is going to be in existence. And, you know, five years from now, I'm going to be 60 years old and do I want to be looking for another job at that time?

[Dr. John DeLoney]

So part of healing from anxiety is a reclamation of the nerd word is autonomy agency. I'm in the driver's seat of my own life. And for millions and millions of people, the thought of being in the driver's seat of their own life is terrifying because for their whole life, people have told them, you're too stupid to drive. You can't drive. They've hit them when they were driving. They've cheated on them when they were driving. They just don't trust themselves behind the wheel. So after two and a half years of counseling and therapy and really hard work, I'm so proud of you, man. Let me ask you.

[Liz]

Thank you.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

You are smart enough intellectually and emotionally stable enough to be the head of finances at a company. You know, because you're wise. That's different than intellectually smart. You're wise. You Know that this thing is being led poorly, and you are watching this car veer off the road into oncoming traffic. And so my question for you is not, should you go get another job? You know the answer to that is yes. The deeper question I want you to ask is, after all this work and after all this time and after all this external validation, why don't you trust Liz to go get a new job? Do you think you're too old right now?

[Liz]

No.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Okay.

[Liz]

Right now?

[Dr. John DeLoney]

No. Why don't you trust yourself?

[Liz]

That's a great question. I thought I had it all figured out, but you just hit something.

[Callie]

Probably.

[Liz]

Probably all the reasons I'm in therapy.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Okay. Your knuckleheaded, can't lead. Boss, he trusts you.

[Liz]

Yeah.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

The company that's fallen off a cliff, they trust you. The only person that doesn't trust you in this moment is you.

[Liz]

Yeah.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

I guess. If you get nothing off this call, I think you're worthy of being trusted. I think you're trustworthy.

[Liz]

Yeah, you're right. I'm looking for external reasons to make the decision.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Well, you've already got them.

[Callie]

What?

[Dr. John DeLoney]

You're not. You're not even looking for external reasons anymore. You're looking.

[Liz]

I'm looking for you to tell me that.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Well, I mean, but you're looking for reasons to discount you. That's what I'm interested in. Because you know that the numbers tell you, the leadership trajectory tells, you know?

[Liz]

Yeah.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

But every time you begin to feel that, oh, my gosh, this company is going to go away and I'm going to be 60 and unemployed, that's not a good position to be in. Or AI is taking over everything. Are they just going to replace me in two years with a robot who can run my reports for me? Like you're smart, you know? Yet every time you raise one of those internal questions or you see it, or you read about it, or you have a colleague who brings it up, the first thing your body does is shut you down because it doesn't trust you. Why?

[Liz]

I think there's just that voice in my head that just says, you're not smart enough. You're not good enough.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

So one of the most important tools and strategies I can give somebody is to carry around a small notebook. If you were watching this on YouTube, I'm holding mine up right here. I've got it on my desk right now. But it's where I write the stories that pop up in my head, and then I challenge them with one simple question. Is this true? And then I follow that with one more simple question. Can I do anything about this? Am I worried about the world imploding after this election? If I'm honest, the answer is yes. And can I do anything about that? Nope. I dropped my shoulders. I'm going to go into the next thing because I can't. You see what I'm saying?

[Liz]

Yeah.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

But I need. I need you to see the amazing woman that I'm talking to. Like, I do. I've been only talking to you for what, three or four minutes?

[Liz]

Yeah.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

You have intelligence and wisdom, which is a rare combo these days.

[Liz]

Yeah.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

You know how to run an Excel sheet and a pivot table, and you can see that the end of the road is coming. And can we. Can we say something else? I tend to be kind of catastrophic in my anxiousness. Even if the end of the road's not coming, you also have permission to say, you just are a terrible boss. I don't want to work for you. You get to say that, too?

[Liz]

Yeah.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

What do you want to go do?

[Liz]

I like the work that I do. I like accounting.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Okay.

[Liz]

Yeah. I enjoy leading people. I enjoy leading a team, being part of a team.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa. Are you one of those strange accountants that knows how to do numbers and humans?

[Liz]

I do. I do. I've been told I'm weird because I'm happy and not nerdy.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Good God Almighty. There's going to be a line of people out there trying to hire you.

[Liz]

Yeah.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

And can I tell you, when you go for a job interview and they kind of look you over and you're a smart enough woman to know when you're getting judged just externally, you can smile real big and say, my superpowers, I look like a young grandma, and yet I can sit with any CFO and any president and talk numbers.

[Liz]

Yeah.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

I used to tell people my superpower was I was multilingual, but I only spoke English, and I could speak CFO and I could speak 18 year old, and I could speak parent, and I could also speak president. You can do that, too. I can tell.

[Liz]

Yeah. Thank you.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Will you do me one big honor?

[Liz]

Absolutely.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Will you write into the show, Write in directly to Kelly or to Taylor and let us know when you get this new awesome job?

[Liz]

I will. I will.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Thank you for the call, sister. Can't wait to get that. Get that. That email about your new gig. It's gonna be rad. We'll celebrate with you. Thanks for the call. We'll be right back. November can be bananas. And we have the normal November chaos with Colder weather and there's family drama, Thanksgiving and figuring out holiday plans. And with the recent election. Well, no matter what you think about any of this mess, we all need an extra helping of peace. And one of the easiest ways to find and maintain peace is with the help of Hallowed, the number one prayer and meditation app in the world. With so many external things trying to divide us or capture our attention or just make us bananas, Hallow is there to help you and me keep grounded, to stay present, and to focus on our faith in God. I use Hallow every day, and I absolutely love it. Hallow has thousands of prayers, songs, and meditations to guide you along the path of gratitude, to help you keep peace and to help you answer hard questions and to help you grow closer to God. And I want you to watch for an upcoming Advent Pray 25 challenge that will make the countdown to Christmas truly special. Download the Hallow app and go to hallow.com deloney to get three free months. That's three free months of the Hallow app. Totally free at Hallow. H A l l o w.com DeLoney all right, we're back. Kelly, am I the problem?

[Kelly]

All right, so this is from Lacey, and she says, hi, John. Big shout out to you and your team for being awesome. I can't thank you enough for the invaluable support you guys provide through this show. Hashtag johnforpresident. Hashtag kellyforvp.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

No, that wouldn't go.

[Kelly]

No interest in that whatsoever.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

That wouldn't be good.

[Kelly]

Nah. Anyway, politics aside, I'd be a great president.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

You wouldn't be a good vp because you would want to be president, too.

[Kelly]

Yeah, you'd have to watch it back.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Yeah, I'm.

[Kelly]

Yeah.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Yeah. You'd have a lot of, like, late night meetings with the CIA. That I would.

[Kelly]

I wouldn't sleep well, I will say nothing more. Culpable deniability, I believe we call that.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

I know. And you've listened to way too many murder podcasts.

[Kelly]

We'll never find you.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

No. Yeah. Anywho.

[Kelly]

On with the email.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Not in for this. Co presidents, maybe, but. All right, go ahead.

[Kelly]

Okay. She says I'm the only child of a single mom and my whole life has been influenced by her, directly or indirectly. She's a bit of a quote unquote gypsy, and I've observed a pattern of instability in her choices and behavior throughout the years. So this is kind of long. So I'm paraphrasing some of this. Reflecting on my upbringing, I've realized how much this dynamic has affected me. Every now and then, she likes to throw me a curveball and I don't know how to handle. And here's one. She has decided to move to my city, and I feel like she expects me to help her get situated. My main issue with that is, despite having stability in the current place she's living, she's choosing to move to be close to me without having sufficient resources to support herself. I'm afraid that this situation will end as it has done several times in the past with her relocating, if things don't go as planned. For this reason, I have explicitly communicated to her that I will only provide moral support and cannot assist her with housing, job, or her financial needs. She is hurt by my lack of support and, frankly, my disinterest in her plans. Now I can't shake the guilt because she's in her 60s and despite being in good health, really could use some existence. Am I the problem for being reluctant to help my mom?

[Dr. John DeLoney]

I don't think this is a very nice question that you gave me, Kelly. I'm going to give a very unpopular answer, and probably my answer has evolved on this particular topic more than any other topic. Are you ready? It's twofold, and I'm going to name drop here, but rest assured, there was no one talking to me. This was me eavesdropping. Okay. And maybe I've talked about on the show. I don't think I have. I was at an event. I was speaking at John Maxwell's event last year, and also on that bill was Deion Sanders. And so Deion comes walking backstage, and we didn't even exchange eye contact. So make no mistake, he wasn't like, hey, what's up? There was none of that, but I was. There's a table, and we were all sitting at this table, and Dion was standing up talking to a group next to him. And it wasn't a showy thing. And it wasn't like, yeah, it wasn't that. It was just a regular conversation. And I heard Dion say something that I exhaled, and I couldn't believe that. It just was like. You're exactly right, he said. And this is me paraphrasing, but I'm going to quote him. And I know that doesn't sound right, but in my head, I'm confident of what the quote is. In reality, it probably wasn't this. This stable. It was. Every day I get up and I thank God that I have found myself in a position to take care of my mom. And for the last 20 years. My mom was a stay at home mom. My dad was a policeman and then a minister. And I didn't realize. And then my mom's going to become a professor. She's a literature professor, which is the lowest on the totem pole, right? Financially speaking, at a university. I didn't realize how much I had built into my life. This I'm going to have to take care of. Whatever, whatever. That was the first time. And I called a couple of my buddies. That was the first time I exhaled and I thought, no, no, no. I get to. Holy smokes. I get to take care of my parents in their old age. Now, taking care of them doesn't mean that I cater to every whim. And that doesn't mean that I put myself at risk by taking out loans I can't afford and propping up lifestyles that aren't real. Like, that's not what I'm saying at all. But there's an exhale like, no, I'm going to help. I'll help out. We'll see if we can figure this thing out. And I have to say, no, I can't afford this particular home. Or you're. You, you can't move in here because I only have this many. My mom has a dog that she just love, love, love, love, loves. And I have three dogs, and they're inside now in our new house. And I said, hey, when you come stay, you can't bring it forth. I can't, I can't. It's too much. And she's like, well, I love my dog. And I was like, I know, but I can't. So the boundaries are okay, but that boundary came after an invitation. I hope you'll come and stay as long as you want. And it goes back to that conversation. I heard Mr. Sanders say, like, I get to. And so my challenge would be to a kid who's been run over over and over and over, what does it look like to say no? I get to. And reframe it that way. And I know that that is an unpopular sentiment. Like, they don't. They didn't plan, plan that. I know that's my mom, that's my dad. And so it's more about, okay, I get to. I've had a successful run in business, et cetera, et cetera. So what does that mean? And what are the boundaries I got to draw there? You might end up in the same place drawing boundaries. I. I just can't help you. It sounded like in that call, I'm tired of helping. I'M tired of showing up I'm tired of these things and I don't want to do it anymore and then I would challenge that attitude that's your mom keep showing back up even when it's hard and doesn't mean you have to pay for everything but that's what I got to say about that right now and I might change my mind on that in six months but that's where I'm at right now it's hard it's frustrating and it's challenging and it's your mom and maybe you're one of the fortunate ones that get to that have the opportunity to help maybe just something to think about I can just imagine people listening to their podcast right now just be like you suck no I'm just kind of over the throw everything away because mom and dad didn't do it perfectly I'm just kind of done with that I want my kids to be kids that have grace for me cuz I God knows their list is going to be real real real long real long love you guys.