I’m Worried My Son’s Dangerous Lifestyle Will Kill Him

Summary

Podcast Summary: The Dr. John DeLoney Show – "I’m Worried My Son’s Dangerous Lifestyle Will Kill Him"

Release Date: October 25, 2024
Host: Dr. John DeLoney
Network: Ramsey Network
Episode Title: I’m Worried My Son’s Dangerous Lifestyle Will Kill Him

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Introduction

In this emotionally charged episode of The Dr. John DeLoney Show, host Dr. John DeLoney engages with callers facing significant personal and familial challenges. The episode primarily focuses on three callers: Hannah, Linda, and Kelly, each grappling with different aspects of relationships and mental health. Dr. DeLoney provides compassionate, actionable advice aimed at fostering understanding, connection, and healing.

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Caller 1: Hannah’s Concerns About Her Son’s Lifestyle

Timestamp: [00:05] – [15:25]

Caller Background: Hannah from Lancaster, Pennsylvania, reaches out with deep concerns about her 25-year-old son's deteriorating lifestyle. She describes witnessing her son's involvement in risky behaviors, including attending orgies, recreational drug use, and maintaining multiple romantic relationships simultaneously.

Key Issues Discussed:

• Son’s Risky Behaviors: Hannah shares that her son has been participating in orgies, taking recreational drugs, and managing relationships with two people at once. She likens observing his actions to “watching a car crash in slow motion” ([00:05], Hannah).

• Communication Breakdown: Initially close and open, Hannah now finds communication strained as her son has blocked her on social media. Attempts to address his behavior lead to him dismissing her concerns, stating, “everybody lives this way” ([03:08], Hannah).

• Parental Reflection: Hannah reflects on her upbringing, mentioning she became a parent at 17 and acknowledges a rocky start but emphasizes loving and accepting her son’s identity ([04:41], Hannah).

Dr. DeLoney’s Advice:

• Focus on Connection Over Judgment: Dr. DeLoney advises Hannah to prioritize love and connection, suggesting she consistently communicate her unconditional support. He emphasizes the importance of letting her son know he can always “come home” ([08:20], Dr. DeLoney).

• Initiate In-Person Meetings: He recommends arranging specific dates to meet her son in person to re-establish a strong foundation of support ([07:51], Dr. DeLoney).

• Avoid Shaming: Dr. DeLoney cautions against shaming or judging her son’s current lifestyle, noting that he may already be battling internal struggles ([08:57], Dr. DeLoney).

• Long-Term Strategy: He encourages patience, suggesting that consistent love and open lines of communication may eventually lead to her son seeking help during moments of clarity ([11:41], Dr. DeLoney).

Notable Quotes:

• Hannah: “I feel like I am watching a car crash in slow motion.” ([00:05])
• Dr. DeLoney: “You can always come home. I don’t care how old you are.” ([08:50])

Conclusion for Hannah: Dr. DeLoney underscores the importance of unwavering support and love, advising Hannah to maintain open communication without imposing judgment, thereby providing her son with a safe space to seek help when ready.

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Caller 2: Linda’s Struggle with Scarcity Mindset in Planning for a Baby

Timestamp: [18:57] – [30:25]

Caller Background: Linda from Savannah, Georgia, contacts the show seeking guidance on her emotional and financial readiness to have a child. Despite having a surplus income and being halfway through baby step three, Linda battles a scarcity mindset rooted in past financial insecurities.

Key Issues Discussed:

• Financial Concerns: Linda admits to making $1,200 more per month than needed but feels emotionally unprepared to handle a child, citing fears related to financial instability ([19:40], Linda).

• Scarcity Mindset Origins: Her fears trace back to childhood experiences, including fundraising for a medical condition and her parents losing their home during the 2008 financial crisis ([22:34], Linda).

• Emotional Blocks: Linda expresses guilt over her financial stability, fearing that any lack of perfection in planning could jeopardize her sense of security ([24:17], Dr. DeLoney).

Dr. DeLoney’s Advice:

• Reframe Financial Security: He encourages Linda to recognize that her financial situation is stable and that the fears stem from past experiences rather than current realities ([20:02], Dr. DeLoney).

• Embrace Imperfection: Dr. DeLoney advises letting go of the need for absolute control and perfection in planning, emphasizing that some aspects of parenting are unpredictable and require flexibility ([25:55], Dr. DeLoney).

• Focus on Emotional Readiness: He highlights the importance of emotional preparedness over financial perfection, suggesting that loving deeply and building a family requires taking calculated risks ([26:09], Dr. DeLoney).

Notable Quotes:

• Dr. DeLoney: “You can afford to have a baby.” ([20:02])
• Linda: “I don’t feel secure in it.” ([22:28])

Conclusion for Linda: Dr. DeLoney reassures Linda that her financial situation is manageable and emphasizes the importance of overcoming emotional barriers to embrace the joys and challenges of parenthood. He encourages her to proceed with confidence, balancing planning with the inherent uncertainties of raising a child.

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Caller 3: Kelly’s Conflict with Her Father’s Involvement as a Grandparent

Timestamp: [34:28] – [55:04]

Caller Background: Kelly from Greenville, South Carolina, discusses her discomfort with her father’s sporadic and superficial involvement in her children’s lives. Her father, Jerry, has a history of infidelity that led to her parents' 37-year marriage dissolution, further complicating familial relationships.

Key Issues Discussed:

• Superficial Grandfather Involvement: Jerry drops off gifts and takes photos of his grandchildren but fails to engage meaningfully, causing emotional strain ([49:26], Kelly).

• Impact of Past Infidelity: The affair that led to her parents' divorce deeply affects Kelly’s perception of her father’s current role ([50:15], Kelly).

• Considering Cutting Off Contact: Kelly is contemplating limiting or severing her father's involvement to protect her children from his inconsistent presence ([50:15], Kelly).

Dr. DeLoney’s Advice:

• Provide a Roadmap for Restoration: He suggests that Kelly articulate clear expectations and boundaries with her father, offering him an opportunity to re-engage meaningfully ([52:07], Dr. DeLoney).

• Encourage Honest Conversations: Dr. DeLoney advocates for direct communication where Kelly can express her needs and the specific ways she desires her father’s involvement ([54:37], Dr. DeLoney).

• Avoiding Drama and Disconnection: He emphasizes the importance of giving her father a chance to understand and respect Kelly’s boundaries rather than immediately cutting him off ([54:56], Dr. DeLoney).

Notable Quotes:

• Kelly: “I want my kids to have a grandfather so badly, but he’s been such a bad example.” ([50:15])
• Dr. DeLoney: “Give people a chance. Provide a roadmap for restoration.” ([52:07])

Conclusion for Kelly: Dr. DeLoney encourages Kelly to establish clear boundaries and communicate her expectations to her father, offering him a structured opportunity to rebuild a meaningful relationship with her children. He underscores the importance of patience and open dialogue in navigating complex familial dynamics.

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Key Takeaways and Final Insights

1. Unwavering Support in Parenting:

   • Maintaining open, judgment-free communication can provide crucial support to family members undergoing personal crises.

2. Overcoming Emotional Barriers:

   • Addressing and reframing deep-seated fears and mindsets is essential for making significant life decisions, such as expanding a family.

3. Navigating Complex Family Relationships:

   • Providing clear expectations and opportunities for meaningful engagement can help mend and strengthen strained familial bonds.

4. Balancing Planning with Flexibility:

   • While financial and logistical planning are important, embracing the unpredictability of life and relationships is equally crucial for long-term happiness and stability.

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Additional Highlights

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• Interactive Elements:

  • Callers are encouraged to share their stories via voicemail or email, fostering a community of support and shared experiences.

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Conclusion

Dr. John DeLoney’s empathetic and practical approach offers listeners valuable strategies for addressing complex personal and familial issues. By fostering open communication, challenging limiting mindsets, and encouraging meaningful connections, the episode provides actionable insights for navigating the turbulent waters of relationships and mental health.

For those seeking further assistance or wishing to share their stories, Dr. DeLoney invites listeners to reach out via the provided contact methods, continuing the conversation beyond the show.

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End of Summary

Transcript

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Coming up on the Dr. John DeLoney.

[Hannah]

Show, My son's life has devolved. He has been going to orgies, taking recreational drugs, has a third boyfriend, but is in a relationship with two people at once. And I feel like I am watching a car crash in slow motion.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

What up, what up, what up? This. This is John with the Dr. John DeLoney Show. I'm so grateful that you've joined us, talking about your mental and emotional health and your relationships, your friendships, your marriages, your children, whatever you got going on in your life. For two decades plus, I've been sitting with hurting people trying to figure out what's the next right move. And here's the truth. All of us are going through something. Every single one of us is fighting a war that is either invisible or everybody knows about it, but everybody's going through something. And that's what this show is about. Real people going through real stuff. And I'll sit with you and I'll help you figure out what's in next right move. If you want to be on the show, I'd love to have you give me a buzz at 1-844-693-3291 or go to john deloney.com ask a. All right, let's go out to Lancaster. Not Lancaster, Lancaster, Pennsylvania, and talk to Hannah. Hey, Hannah, what's up?

[Hannah]

Hi, Dr. John. Thanks for answering my call.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Of course. Thanks for. For shouting us out, man. What's up?

[Hannah]

Well, I don't even know where to.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Begin, but cannonball, right.

[Hannah]

My son's life has devolved into chaos, and I have no clue what to do about it.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

How old is he?

[Hannah]

25 years old. He recently moved to New York City, and when he first moved there, everything was normal, everything was fine. He moved there for a good job. We were so proud of him. And then I guess a couple months ago, everything just started devolving. He has been. I don't even know if I can say this on the air.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Say whatever you want to say. Say, say it all on here, man. We like, man. We do life here, so go for it.

[Hannah]

Well, ever since a couple months ago, he has been just a monster. He has been going to orgies, sex parties, taken recreational drugs. And I know about this because he has been posting it all over the Internet online. On top of this, he has a third boyfriend, not third consecutive, but is in a relationship with two people at once. And I feel like I am watching a car crash in slow motion. We've always been close and open with each other. I've always accepted him in many ways, but this feels like it's gone too far.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Are you guys still talking? Is there a communication lifeline open between the two of you?

[Hannah]

We do talk, but I am now blocked on social media. The only reason why I have seen these videos is because of my niece, who I'm close with, who is slightly younger than him, but about the same age. And she brought this to my attention because she was worried. Um, and when I tried talking to him about it a little bit, I could feel him pulling back. And, you know, he was just telling me that everybody lives this way. And I just can't believe that that is the truth.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Yeah, I'm sorry. It's hard to watch your adult son, who's got adult resources, putting himself in a position where. I love how you said that you just feel like you're watching a slow motion car crash with one of the most important people in your life in the. In the driver's seat. Right.

[Hannah]

It's just baffling because he was always the good kid. Right. He was the goody two shoes. He got the good grades, now he has a good job. And I just don't know where I went wrong. I don't know what caused.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

I was about to go there. That kind of reverse engineering is not helpful right now. It probably will never be, but especially not right now.

[Alex]

Okay.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Because there's two things going on here. Number one, you're staring at yourself in the mirror saying, shame on you. Right?

[Hannah]

Right.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Tell me about home life.

[Hannah]

Home life. You know, we got off to a rocky start. I had him really young. I had him at 17. So, you know, I live some life as well. But, you know, we did our best to provide. Me and my husband were always loving and, you know, accepted his identity. He came out to us at 15. You know, we are a religious household, but we did accept him for that and we are proud of him. We just don't know what currently is happening.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Okay. Often in with. With the just countless young people I've sat with over the years, what's often goes unseen by their family members is just how brutal home. I mean, school life is, bullying is, ostracizing is. You know, I'm saying it's just, it's just, it's. It's just, it just breaks my heart. It's broken my heart over and over and over again for two decades.

[Hannah]

We did deal with some of that, especially when he was out. And you. It was only 10 years ago, but things have changed a lot, I feel.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Yeah.

[Hannah]

And it was a different Time, Sure.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

And in the 10 years before that or the five years before that, when he knew that he was different but nobody else did, like, that's a lot of weight for a kid to carry alone. Right? But here's the deal. That is not even on the radar for me as in terms of concerns. What you're telling me is you're watching your, Your, your son become somebody that you have never known them to be, and that is somebody who's using drugs, who's putting themselves at great risk. Right. Not only with drug use, but with just out of control, multiple sexual partners, all the same. All this stuff is just so, so quick, so fast. Right. And yeah. So number one, let's move your identity off to the side. Think of it this way. If you have a loved one in a car and let's say you left the car keys in the car and you see that loved one rolling off down the street, you sitting there wondering, why'd you leave the car keys in there? Or what could you have done differently? That's not the time for that. The time for that is to go try to stop that car.

[Hannah]

Right?

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Right. I have a different take on this simply because I've. This is the age, the age of young person I've worked with most of my career. So I'm gonna put myself in your seat. If I was to have my son was to be 25 and this very same thing was going on. Okay. I would put in writing, I'm coming to see you. I'm coming to visit you. And I don't care right now if y'all can afford it or not. This is your kid, and I want you to have a specific date and a specific time. I'm going to meet you at this coffee shop at this time.

[Hannah]

Okay?

[Dr. John DeLoney]

I love you and I can't wait to see you. And then I'm going to start peppering over time after this initial conversation. Here's that conversation. It's just going to be me looking across the table at my son. And I don't know about you, I've got one, my only son. And I'm going to say, I need you to look at me. I love you. And you can always come home.

[Hannah]

Okay?

[Dr. John DeLoney]

You can always come home. Oh, Mom. Things are going great. I know, but I need you to never forget the words that are coming out of my mouth. You, my son can always come home now when he gets home. You can't use drugs in my house. We'll cross those bridges later. But you can't make a 25 year old do anything but. So now you have to rely on persuasion. You have to rely on love and connection.

[Hannah]

That was my fear. Because when I tried talking to him, I was just thinking to myself, you know, I don't want to push him away.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Well, I would throw that fear away. The only thing you're going to. I would avoid running in and judging him. You know why? Because he's judging himself. He knows. He knows. He knows, he knows, he knows, he knows, he knows. Okay, so you adding to the chorus of that painful voice in his heart and mind is not helpful. That's where we'll get to the. Hey, you can't do that in my house. We'll get to that stuff later. Right now it's about saving somebody's life. You can come home and anytime you text him, I want the conversations to be about, this is your mom. She wants you to know I love you. And our front door is always open if things get too wild. Okay?

[Hannah]

Okay.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

And we're just going to build that foundation there. If, if it's. Again, I'm thinking down the road here, if there's an opportunity for an intervention, if he's super sick or if you see him suddenly and he's lost 40 pounds, you know what mean, like you really see him falling off the deep end, then I, I personally would be more intrusive. Here's why. It's their life. They're grown ups, they. I don't care. You're my son and I'm not going to lose you. Right. I'm not going to your funeral. But right now, I don't think we're there yet. Okay.

[Hannah]

Okay. Right now, I mean, he thinks he's having fun.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

There you go.

[Hannah]

But I, I know where it can go.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

And you may not have been been all the way to where he's at. But you said when you were younger you had your days.

[Hannah]

I mean, sure. I mean, I had him at 17.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Does he, does he know those stories?

[Hannah]

A little.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

It's time, it's time to put it all on the table. Two adults talking to two adults. I mean two adults talking to each other.

[Linda]

Okay.

[Alex]

Okay.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

And if you fly to New York or drive, take the train into New York and you sit down and say, I need to tell us. Tell you a story about a young girl and there's probably some dark stuff from when you were younger that he doesn't know about, it might be time to put all that on the table and end that with I love you and you can always come home right.

[Hannah]

The Door is open.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Always. I'll never change the code on you. Okay, Weird mom. Thanks for sharing me. Okay? I just need to tell you that and look at him and say, I'm your mom. And until you block my text messages, just know I'm gonna tell you on a regular basis that I love you and you can always come home.

[Hannah]

Right? We've always been close is the thing. And we have been open. I mean, I've shared some things, not.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Everything, but I think it's time.

[Hannah]

Okay?

[Dr. John DeLoney]

I think it's time. And here's the deal. There's going to be a night when he spun up and he's exhausted and has a moment of clarity, a moment of lucidity. And your voice will ring true in his. In his head.

[Hannah]

Right?

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Okay. And if you can, if you have this conversation, really, it's putting a stake in the ground. I'm not giving up my connection over you. And by the way, there's going to be jillions of people watching and listening to this. Don't read the comments on this, okay, because there's gonna be some pretty hurtful people saying you need to just cut them off. And what?

[Hannah]

Right.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

That's. People have never sat with hurting kid.

[Hannah]

Right. I mean, that was my husband's initial reaction. I said no.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Yeah, no. By the way, you can't keep doing what he's doing. Right? I mean, it's not safe what he's doing. He's putting himself in. Forget the morality. He's putting himself in horrific danger.

[Hannah]

That's it. I just don't want him to, you know, get addicted or get a disease or worse.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Exactly. Exactly. Exactly. Exactly. So putting some of those things on the table, y'all might have some places where y'all bond. He might have some stories for you. And maybe you ask. I want to tell you my story. I just want to know, like, what was life like when you're 15 and you're 14 and maybe he'll open up with you to you a little bit. We're just looking for as deep and as powerful of a connection as we can have. And in some ways it's reconnection because y'all are both adults, right?

[Hannah]

I'm just concerned about the environment too. Like, what is the environment he's in that tells him that this is normal behavior, that this is what everybody's doing.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

There's. I mean, anytime a 25 year old tells me, everybody, it's. I mean, 40 year olds tell me, everybody, 50, 80 year olds, everybody. No, they don't. That's One of the, like that's, that's coaching and counseling 101 is when someone, everyone says, okay, name them. Who? Because it's not, it's not the percentage of people who actively participate in multiple orgies is virtually nil. It's just. Right. And so the people, the people who participate in just rapid onset, dramatic hard drug use, there's a fair number of them. It just doesn't last very long.

[Hannah]

Right. I mean, he's always wanted to go to New York City and when he finally. Yes. And we were, you know, supportive, but I think it's just all at once. There's a lot out there.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Yeah, that's right. And so I think it's about reconnecting and if he gives you insights, well, what do you think, mom? I think you can say things like, I'm watching my baby boy die right in front of me and I really, really am not interested in burying my son.

[Hannah]

Right, right.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

That's different than you shouldn't be having sex before you're married. That's a different conversation. You get what I'm saying?

[Hannah]

Right? Right.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Yeah. This isn't about you not approving of his choices. This is about you watching your son engaging in some really quick. On a really quick onset of truly destructive behaviors all at the same time. So, yeah, there's, I've recommended parents for years. Go see your kid in person. If on the off chance he won't see you, sounds like he will because you'll have been close. If he won't have coffee with you, if he won't have breakfast with you, if you won't have lunch or dinner with you, then it may be time to send a letter. But I want to continually offer this refrain. You can come home, you can come home. You can come home. I don't care how old you are. And we'll deal with the quote, unquote judgment of the behaviors later. And by the way, for anybody who thinks I'm just going to cut them off, you probably haven't buried a kid. And I've sat with moms and dads who have, and I wouldn't wish that hell on anybody, anybody. And I have not met a young person in this situation that doesn't know they're over their head. I'm sure they're out there. I'm sure I'm gonna get blown up by 25 year olds like, nah, bro, this is cool. We're just, we're just doing our thing. I haven't met one who doesn't like, know I'M over my head and the only thing I know to do is the next crazy thing. And then the only thing I know how to do after that to wallpaper over how I feel, how hollow it feels or the the dopamine smash the when the body reacts with the pain on the other side of that teeter totter and the depths of that hurt and that hollowness they know. So we're going to extend a hand. We're not going to extend a fist. Blessings to you, Hannah man. We'll be thinking about you guys. And dude, you want to do something wild? Have your son call me on the show. I'll do anything and everything I can to help him out. Thank you so much for the call. We'll be right back. This show is sponsored by Better Help. This month is all about gratitude, and most of us have a person or two we'd like to shout out for helping us out somewhere along our life's journey. I'd like to take a moment to thank two people who have transformed my life. One is the great Marilyn Fannin. And two is the great and powerful Dr. Jean Will Thompson. Marilyn gave me a chance when no one should have. She brought me along and taught me poise and professionalism and she challenged me when I needed help. And Jean Noel taught me how to be a dad, a husband, a professional, and how to balance the seemingly impossible weight of caring for a whole bunch of people all at the same time. Big time. Thanks to Marilyn and Jean Noel and for all you listeners. I know you have people in your own life that you're grateful for and hopefully you stop and thank them. But there's one person that we often don't take time to think enough ourselves. We don't always acknowledge that we're surviving or moving forward. We're grinding towards a better life, better relationships and a better world. And in a world where everything's gone bonkers, this isn't easy. So here's my reminder to thank the people in your life, including you. And sometimes we need more than just a thank you. We need some professional and personal help. We need to talk to someone who is trained to help us discover true gratitude for ourselves and others, especially during the holiday seasons. That's why I recommend my friends at BetterHelp. BetterHelp is 100% online therapy. You can talk with your therapist anytime, so it's convenient for your schedule. Just fill out a short online survey to get matched with a licensed therapist. Plus, you can switch therapists at any time for no extra cost. This holiday season Let the gratitude flow with better help. Visit betterhelp.com deloney all right, let's go out to Savannah, Georgia and talk to Alex. Hey, Alex, what's up?

[Linda]

Hey, Dr. John, thank you so much for taking my call. And thank you for all you do.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Thank you, brother. What's up?

[Linda]

So I'm going to cut to my question. I'll give you some background as you request it. Essentially, my wife and I are at a season where we're planning to have a baby. Awesome. But I've also. Thank you. I've also. I've always had a bit of a scarcity mindset, I guess you could call it. So I don't feel that we're. I don't feel like emotionally ready to have a baby because I, I don't know if our finances are in order to do so. I think Dave would say they would, but it's. It's such an emotional block for me because I'm so used to preparing for everything and that I'm. It's. It's affecting our ability to have not, you know, it's just affecting us.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Yeah. So let's just talk straight up, objective. Okay. You have the money, don't you?

[Linda]

I mean, I don't really know how to answer that. I can give you the practical figure. The practical figure is we make $1200 more a month than we need to live and we're halfway through baby step three.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Okay. You can afford to have a baby.

[Linda]

Okay. Thank you.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

You can afford to have multiple babies. Okay. And here, even beyond, you have 1,200 bucks extra every month over your bills. Let me go one step deeper. What in your house can you sell? Can you get an apartment? Can you get rid of your nice cars and drive crappy cars? When people tell me, like, I quote, unquote, can't afford a baby, or I can't afford babies, housing is astronomical right now. Child care is insanely expensive. Right. There's no question about those things. But often it's these other variables. But what about. And what about we have to live here? What about we, we can't get rid of the new F250? What about the. There's all these other extraneous things. And I'm telling you, we've done this really crazy ROI in our world where we have to get all these, this stuff first and then the kid comes and. Dude, it's, it's. I, I have literally zero regrets. I've done some things. I've hurt people over the years. I've done things I wish I could take back the regret I have is that I only had two kids because I did not understand the capacity for love and how it transformed my life. And by the way, Alex, I'm still not emotionally ready to have kids. You know, I'm not. I don't know that anybody is.

[Linda]

So how do I get over sort of this scarcity mindset?

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Of what are you scared of?

[Linda]

That I'm scared that I'm. I'm scared of everything. I'm scared. I'll give you an example, and I'm trying not to take most of your time.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Hey, bro. Hey. It's just us, too. We're good. We're good. You take my time. I'm trying to get to the root of it. What is it?

[Linda]

So, like, when we planned our wedding, my wife said, we can have a wedding that costs X amount of money. And I was like, we'll never be able to afford it. And we did. And we went to look at a house, and I wanted to buy a town home, and that was X amount of dollars. And she said, no, we work really hard. We can afford this. And we bought the nicer house, and we can afford it. But if I can't, and I'm trying not to get emotional, if I can't plan it and see it, then I don't. I don't feel secure in it.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

I know, but where does that lack of security come from? Did somebody bail on you when you're a kid?

[Linda]

No. I was the recipient of a lot of fundraising growing up. I have a medical condition, and that fundraising changed my life. But it also showed me the value of a dollar at 14 years old and what it was like to not have that money. And then literally directly after that, it was 2008, my parents lost their house. So many people. And they recovered. Ever since then, it's always been planned for security, plan for security. And we weren't broke. Like, I've never gone without anything. We were upper middle class. But, like.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Yeah, but it's not that. It's the electricity that was in your home. It was that look on your dad's face, those little. Like, those little tiny, almost imperceptible winces when he had to take somebody else's money to take care of his own son.

[Linda]

100%.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

And those are stamped in your nervous system, and that's okay. And so now I know, but listen to me. That fear you have, there's not something wrong with you. You're in this weird dance where you have all of the success and you always. It always. You've managed to work it out. And even when your parents lost everything, they lost their home, you look up in 10 years later and they're back. Right?

[Linda]

Yeah.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Yeah. So the challenge for you is you get in this loop to where your body feels the worst thing that could happen, and then you beat yourself up for even feeling it because you're surrounded by blessing right now.

[Linda]

Yeah. I feel guilty that I have so much.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

That's it. That's it. That's it. And so here's the deal. I have the same. I have the same wiring in my system when it comes to. I need to plan everything out in case. Because my wife makes fun of me, if one of my kids says the words, daddy, I'm still hungry, dude, I freak out, bro. I do, too.

[Linda]

When my sisters are like, you know, I want some more to eat, like, I'll get you any amount of food.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Yeah.

[Linda]

You know what I mean?

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Yes. Yes. And so listen to me. You are not screwed up. I'm glad your heart is like that. And I'm also glad you like me married. Well, because we got somebody else. We got somebody else that can see, can shine a light in that dark. And by the way, there's also times when our over planning has been. Right. Fair.

[Linda]

Fair.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Okay. So it's. Both of us are working on this thing together. The scariest thing is having a kid because you can't predict the outcome and you can't know the outcome, and it's transcendent, even when it's bad, even when it's scary. So here's kind of your path forward. Okay, I'm going to butcher the quote because I don't have top of my head, but it's an old C.S. lewis quote, which is essentially, the only way to never get hurt is to lock yourself up, lock your heart up, and throw the key away.

[Linda]

Right.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

That's it. But in doing so, you also will never live.

[Linda]

Yeah.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Okay. Do you want to have. You want to have kids?

[Linda]

Yeah. Like, so much. Go get it.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Go get it, brother. And here's what's going to happen. You're going to have those same feelings of scarcity. And there's going to be some times you spoil them. And there's going to be some times when you're over. Planning is really a blessing and a gift. Thank God Alex was there. And there's going to be times your wife has to put her hand on your knee under the table just so you can drop your shoulders because you're starting to get Nervous. And in your lifetime, in your kids lifetime, there will be a wild economic correction or more. There will be times of pain, there will be times of struggle. All of that is true. And you and your wife together, using. Being smart. You guys don't owe anybody any money right now, right?

[Linda]

Right?

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Yeah. Dude, you're so far ahead of the game. But here's the deal. This conversation is not one in a spreadsheet. This conversation is about you.

[Linda]

Guys, like me and you, we just love the spreadsheet.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

I know, but it's a pacifier. It's a Xanax. It's fake. It's some sort of illusion that we can actually dictate what goes in the next cell. And we're wrong. We're lying to ourselves. It's our way of just. It's a pacifier. It's a blankie. Right?

[Linda]

Yeah.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

And planning is good. It's both. And so plan the best you can. And so, like at, you know, Dave Ramsey tells people to get three to six months emergency fund. I cheat sometimes. And I have more than that. Not a crazy amount more, but I do. I call it my sleep tax. That money would be earning more in a mutual fund. It would be earning more in a Roth, but I have it in a savings account just for me, just for my family. Right. It's a little bit more. And I'm okay with that.

[Linda]

Yeah.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

You get what I'm saying?

[Linda]

I do.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

It's okay. And I don't go crazy with it. And I give my wife permission to say, hey, that doesn't. That doesn't make a lot of sense. And I go, yeah, you're right. And even. I'll tell you this. The other day my wife said, with the election coming up, she goes, hey, if anything goes sets off, we're okay. Right? And I just smile and go, we're okay. You know what I mean? It's both and it's both and.

[Linda]

Yeah, I appreciate it, but, Alex, I.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Want you to have 10 kids.

[Linda]

I don't. I just want to have one kid.

[Alex]

Yeah.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

I don't. Don't have. I mean, tens a lot.

[Linda]

Yeah. Tens of bunch. I gotta get a bigger car. If I could think it's.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

You're gonna have to get a new car anyway, dude. Just let it ride. But here's the thing. Yeah. You can't plan for it. And you've overcome a lot in your life. Is that fair?

[Linda]

Yeah.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Okay. There's not a doubt in my mind. After overcoming medical conditions, after overcoming your parents, losing everything, overcoming a wedding, overcoming Buying a house, overcoming your personal and professional and romantic challenges. And you got a house and you got a job. I'm not worried about you in those in the slightest. I want men like you raising kids in this world.

[Linda]

I appreciate that.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Okay.

[Linda]

Just. Yeah. You just want to do the best for them, you know?

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Of course. We all do. And just to let. Let you off the hook, you're not going to. Sometimes you're gonna screw up a lot.

[Linda]

Yeah.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

So go into it knowing that it's like a baseball player who never wants to swing and miss.

[Linda]

Yeah.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Like that's just going to happen. And if you get a hit three out of 10 times, they'll put you in the hall of fame.

[Linda]

Yeah.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Be a little bit better as a dad. Right? You want to do better than 30%, but. But you get what I'm saying?

[Linda]

Yeah, for sure.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

I want men like you raising kids in this. In this crazy sideways world.

[Linda]

I appreciate it.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Men who care, men who plan, and men who want to love deeply.

[Linda]

I appreciate it.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Cool.

[Linda]

Yeah. Thanks so much.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Will you send me a picture of the baby?

[Linda]

Yeah, man, soon. As soon as we get. We get it back, I'll slide in your DMS and send you the baby ultrasound.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

And I think the name John for a boy is excellent.

[Linda]

And. Yeah, I'll pass that along. I appreciate.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Do not. Do not name your daughter Kelly. There's a whole host of just curses that go with that, so I'm telling you, you got. You got this. Hey, brother, I'm proud of you. Appreciate the call, man. Every time you feel like you're going off the rails on a crazy train, put your fist in your chest and exhale and say out loud, I'm good. I've been here before, and I'll be here again. And I've planned and I'm good. I can go love deeply now. Awesome. Proud of you. Proud. Thanks for the call, brother. We'll be right back. All right, good. Folks, I want to tell you about Cozy Earth. The holidays are on us like a freight train, and these stores keep playing the Little Drummer Boy over and over. Can we just be done with the pahrumpa pum pums? Listen, at this time of year, we need to create peaceful environments, especially a peaceful sleep environment. And I call mine my sleep sanctuary. And for me and my family, a big part of our sleep sanctuary includes bedding and bath linens and comfortable clothes from Cozy Earth. Listen, y'all know I love the sheets and I love the bath towels and all the good stuff there, but you don't Know that Cozy Earth has amazing hoodies and crewneck T shirts. They're called cityscape hoodies and crewnecks and they come in men's and women's and kids sizes. I can't stop wearing them. And my wife loves Cozy Earth's long sleeve bamboo pajama set. They're so amazing. And just wait till you feel the Cozy Earth cuddle blanket. It's big, it's heavy, it's super soft. It just makes you go. All of these things make incredible gifts during the holidays. And don't forget Cozy earth offers a 10 year warranty on all of their bedding. So amid the holiday chaos and the Pam Palms, you can create your own peaceful sanctuaries, your own peaceful sleep sanctuaries with Cozy Earth. Go to cozy earth.com DeLoney and use code deloney for an exclusive discount for up to 40% off. That's cozy earth.com deloney and if you get a post purchase survey, say that you heard about Cozy Earth on this podcast. Hey, we are back. Hey, listen, I talk to couples every day who love each other, been married for one year, five years, 25 years, whatever. And they become roommates, they become co household managers. They've become great at doing the things of life. And they miss each other. They miss each other, they miss their friends, right? And so as a society, we've made it weird to talk about sex, we made it weird to talk about intimacy. We've made it weird to ask deep questions and kind of like, yeah, questions, right? We don't know how to do that anymore. So I've got you brand new for the first time. You guys have been asking for this and asking for this. And so we've created Question for Humans Intimacy edition. Oh yeah. You're going to talk through questions, help you build a stronger, more intimate marriage. Feel connected and you're gonna have a great time together. And it's not going to be awkward. Y'all are married. It's going to be fun. You can learn something about each other. And by the way, you can keep going back to these things because our arrows, our intimate lives, our what? Things we're into things we're not into, the things we want to try, things we don't want to try. That all changes over time. And so this deck of cards is going to go with you for ever. And so, and by the way, I've got new questions for humans decks for couples, friends and parents. Those are the three most popular editions. We've got episode three of couples, friends and parents go to ramsaysolutions.com store. Questions for humans. Intimacy Edition. Gonna change your marriage. All right, let's go out to Greenville, South Carolina, and talk to Linda. Hey, what's up, Linda? Hi. How are you?

[Alex]

Good, how are you? I'm good.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

I'm great, too. What's up?

[Alex]

Well, I'm looking forward to hopefully getting some insight from you on something I've been stuck on. I was married for 10 years, and I've been divorced for about two years now. And since dating after divorce, I've really kind of been stuck in this loop of, you know, when I'm with someone, I feel like I'm settling because I can do better. Or on the other side, after getting to know someone really well, I start to kind of pick them apart in my head and find reasons as to why it won't work out. And then I end up breaking up with them. So my biggest question is, how do I really know when someone's right for me? Because I've had opportunities and I want to be open to love and getting remarried, but I just always find a reason and look for every way that it might cause problems or something might be an issue.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Man, that's a loaded question. If there was a way to put that in algorithm, which I'm sure there's a room full of geeks trying to figure that right out right now. If you could put that in algorithm, you'd make a trillion dollars. So here's a couple of questions, and then I'll land the plane. What are you getting? What are you getting out of picking somebody apart or breaking up with them? What's that get you?

[Alex]

Lost time. Really, it's. I don't like wasting my time.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

What does it get you? What does it get you? It gets you some productive things. What does it get you? How's that helping you?

[Alex]

I don't feel like it helps me.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Well, you keep doing it and your body keeps doing it. Just getting you something. What is it getting you?

[Alex]

Is it control?

[Dr. John DeLoney]

You tell me.

[Alex]

I don't know. I think I'm afraid of if I meet some the right person, that I'm going to let them go. Because I have. I think I'm honestly terrified of just picking a bad partner.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

How come?

[Alex]

And I have two kids.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Where does that fear come from?

[Alex]

A bad marriage, in a relationship for 13 years.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Tell me about it.

[Alex]

It was just not a great relationship. He had anger issues and addicted to video games and porn. And I felt really alone my whole relationship. And so I'm really protective of my Peace. Now, I think, you know, I've created a life with my kids that I'm really proud of.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

What would a new partner like? When you sit down and dream about wanting to meet, quote, unquote, the right person, what would that feel like?

[Alex]

A healthy family.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Yeah, that's. That's like. That's like on the back of Oprah Magazine. What does that feel like?

[Alex]

It feels like peace. It feels comfortable. It feels like laughter and unity, love amongst each other.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

So nowhere in there did you mention a receding hairline or not. Nowhere in there did you. Did you even use the word perfect? Because you know that's not real.

[Alex]

Right.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

And so when I ask you what's the thing that your body's getting, what I'm hearing is your body's getting safety because it doesn't want to do what it did again. Is that fair?

[Alex]

Yeah, that's fair.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

So you're getting something from it. The challenge before you is twofold. Number one, I just don't buy at all. Zero. Not in the scientific literature, not in the qualitative literature, and not just in real life. I don't believe in the language of quote, unquote, the right person or the one person. And so it almost feels like you met somebody. And how long did you know this person before?

[Alex]

The person I'm with now.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

No, no, no. Your. Your first husband?

[Alex]

My ex husband for over 13 years. Like, we went in high school and dated in high school. I'm 34.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Yeah. Okay. So that's. I was a long relationship, but. But there was an inevitability to it. You met him in high school, y'all were madly in love, y'all made out. Everyone told you he was the one, you were the one. Y'all figured it out. And you just got, like, you got on a train when you were 14, and it just took off. You get what I'm saying?

[Alex]

Yeah.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

And so there's this idea that, like, I'm going to control this next one. I'm going to drive it. I'll use that word, control. I like that. But every time it starts to feel good or it doesn't, like, I'm out, I'm out, I'm out, I'm out, I'm out, I'm out.

[Alex]

Yeah. I'm very quick to just cut it off and run.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Yeah. And so here's the thing. There's no judgment in that. There's no judgment in that. The quote unquote, right person. Actually, I want to. I'll use the word right. The right person. Is going to be the person you decide to stick it out with.

[Alex]

And it's more about choice. Like, I think meeting someone who I love enough to go through difficult times with, but the fear of the unknown, of what if they change or what if they're not who they present themselves to be. And so I ask a lot of hard questions and I really try to dig deep in the beginning.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

I know, but you're interviewing them for a job. You're trying to screen them instead of get to know them.

[Alex]

Yeah, yeah.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

But when you screen somebody, you set yourself up in like a hiring position across a table. There's a hierarchy there. And so finding the next right person is, hey, I'm a mess, you're a mess. You want to, you want to. You want to make something amazing together? Because I'm going to, I'm going to give you 100% certainty they will change.

[Linda]

So will you.

[Alex]

Yeah.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

100% certainty your kids will grow up and that will change the dynamic of your relationship. Like, everything will change over time. It's, do I want to change with you and will you change with me? That's the question.

[Alex]

Okay.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

And that becomes a choice. And that's going to become a choice too. They're going to gain or lose 10 or 15 pounds or 40. Like, I'm just going to do life with you. They are going to want to eat at places that you don't like to eat. Like, there's just going to be life and it's going to be vice versa. And I think a screening process is good. You know what you like. And so don't beat yourself up. If there were some things about your ex that you're like, these are. No, no. These are deal breakers for me. I don't, I don't date guys who are into pornography.

[Alex]

Yeah.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

I just don't. I don't date guys with the slightest hint of an anger issue. But I do want guys who are passionate, and I did love that about him. See what I'm saying?

[Alex]

Yeah.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Have you thought about the things that you do want?

[Alex]

Yeah, I feel like I have a good idea the things I want. And I think it involves more just family life. And it's hard with kids. I have a 7 and 4 year old. So, you know, depending on if someone has not had kids or does have kids, you know what that looks like and how those lives would intermingle.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Chaotic.

[Alex]

Yes. Yeah.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

And it's just, you guys, there's not an easy path. It's blending. A family is very, very tough. It's Very tough. And it just takes like a choice. Let's go do a tough thing together an almost daily. Figure this thing out. But I want you to not avoid the harder question. What do you want? You want a tall guy? You want a handsome guy? Do you want butterflies again? Do you want someone who's a great kisser? Someone who's like, what do you, what do you want?

[Alex]

I really just want peace. I want someone who can.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Linda, that's such a pcu.

[Alex]

No, I do like, I want someone who I can respect, someone who's farther along in life than me, Someone who can, you know, I can take care of myself. I'm very independent. But someone who cares about also taking care of me.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

There you go.

[Alex]

Who will love my kids.

[Kelly]

There you go.

[Alex]

Not have to parent them, but support me and them and loving them. And now we're getting to laugh.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

And now you're getting to it. I want somebody who's older than me, somebody that I'm attracted to, somebody that doesn't need to take care of me, but someone who will take care of me because they want to.

[Alex]

Yeah.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

And someone that you'll feel safe enough to release yourself into their care. And right now you're pretty puckered up, rightfully so, because you've had to be.

[Alex]

Right.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Is that fair?

[Alex]

It all makes sense.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Here's my last little thing I'll tell you. And this is the most annoying, scary thing. You can't reverse engineer the quote unquote right person. You don't find your soulmate. You don't find the theme and then live happily ever after. You find somebody and say, let's go become soulmates together over time so that when one of us is burying the other One in our 90s, the other one of us can't breathe because part of our lungs are in the ground. And this thing, this, this mystical Hollywoodization is just, it's just a total fabrication. It's not real. It's this choice, like, okay, you make me laugh and I, every time we go, I go home, I can't wait to be around you again. And I watch how you respect my kids and how you take a knee and talk to my 4 year old so that your eye level and how you don't disrespect me as though you're going to come in and be my dad, but you respect me and say, I want to be able to provide alongside you. And then we're going to go figure the rest of this stuff out because it's going to get messy together. Are you in? I'm in.

[Alex]

Yeah.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

And the only way to move forward is to risk getting hurt again.

[Alex]

That's scary.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

I can't. I mean, I can't imagine how scary that is. It's only theoretical for me. I've only sat with people and read about it. I haven't had to go through it. I can't even. I can't wrap my head around how scary that would be. That was your high school sweetheart. You know what I mean? That was your high school sweetheart.

[Alex]

Yeah.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

So tell me about who you're dating now.

[Alex]

He's amazing. He's great. He's. He calms my nervous system and gives me a lot of peace, and it's just. I have a lot of respect for him for who he is and what he does and how. He's just kind, and there's a lot of good qualities about him.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

You are grossing me out, Linda. Ew. Okay, so have you sat down and put your hands on either side of his face and said, I really like you. I'm about to go all in on you?

[Alex]

Not like that, no. Why not?

[Dr. John DeLoney]

What are you scared of?

[Alex]

I'm afraid of I'm going to get cold feet.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

You probably will. And the question will be, will he sit next to you and put his feet in the cold water, too? Your body would be failing you if it let you go through this. This new. This new dating, this new potentially marrying somebody new. Your body would be failing you if it let you go through this without apprehension. It's been there before. It knows this drill. And so you're gonna have to choose to go into that apprehension and through it, because that's where peace is on the other side of it. And also that's where potential. A lot of harm is, too, right?

[Alex]

Yeah.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Firemen run to the fire to put it out, and they get burned sometimes, but that's the only way the fire gets put out is to go right through it.

[Alex]

I like that.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

If he. If. Hey. If he's worth hanging on to, I think he's worth being honest with. I think he's worth being honest with. And I want you to go back and listen to this call when it posts, because your voice just gets all. Ugh. In all the best ways. I love it. It reminds me of Dawson's Creek. And I love that. I don't want to wait. I love that. That just somebody talking about somebody that they're just starting to fall head over heels for and they're trying to stop themselves from falling head over heels, but it's Just happening. And I love it. I love one of my favorite things in the world. The challenge is can I lay? Can I fall head over heels for somebody, land up right, go through that, dip that natural, and then say, okay, we're going to make the next right choice. I'm going to take this step. Will you take it with me? Let's go build an amazing life together or not. Or break up with him, wait for somebody else. But this guy, I don't know, he sounds kind of special. I'm rooting for you, Linda. I'm rooting for you. Instead of saying the words like, is somebody better going to come along? Exchange the word better for is the right guy here? Am I going to go make a choice? And am I the right woman for him? And will he make a choice? Let's go build something amazing. We'll be right back. Fall is here, everybody. And that means, no, not pumpkin spice, please, no more pumpkin spice. It means that I get to spend every waking moment in my flannel and soft denim shirts from Poncho, the world's best performance shirts for men. All poncho shirts are great and their flannels and soft denims kind of remind me of when I was younger and I wanted to be in Soundgarden and Pearl Jam. But listen, the real reason I love Poncho flannels is because they're soft yet incredibly durable and incredibly comfortable. They have a little bit of stretch so they move with you, not against you, and they dry quickly and they have slim and regular fits for different body types. And you can wear these shirts for outdoor adventures, outdoor work, and off to dinner with your wife or to the concert with your friends. Poncho shirts will make amazing gifts for the men in your family. This holiday season, head to poncho outdoors.com and check out all of their styles. Enter code deloney at checkout to get a free T shirt or a hat with any purchase of a button down shirt, go to poncho outdoors.com and use code deloney. All right, we're back. All right, Kelly, are you the problem? Am I the problem? Who's the problem?

[Kelly]

Probably both of us, truth be told.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Agree.

[Kelly]

This is from Robin. She says my dad has been a horribly uninvolved grandparent to my children the past two years. I've gotten texts here and there asking if he can bring over a birthday gift or a Christmas gift for my 5 year old. When I say yes, he'll stop by, drop off the gift, shove his phone in their face to grab a Photo of them, then leave after about 20 minutes without interacting with them at all. He only lives about 10 minutes away and ironically used to complain about his father being uninterested in me when I was a child. It makes me super uncomfortable knowing that he's going to go back and to show his photos, to show the photos to his girlfriend, who was actually his affair partner. That caused my parents divorce after 37 years. But that's a whole nother story. And then he's gonna act.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Jerry, Jerry.

[Kelly]

He's gonna act like grandfather of the year. It's been a few months since I've heard from him, but I'm just. I'm considering not letting the kid see him anymore. The next time he contacts me, would I be the problem for being blunt in telling him that my family is not interested in his fake involvement and to reduce any further contact? I want my kids to have a grandfather so badly, but he's been such a bad example. It almost seems worse that he only comes around every once in a while than not having anyone at all.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

I'm gonna hot take this one. I wouldn't want to hang out with her. I would not want to go to her house. Why? Because she invents stories about me. And there's not a way this man can win. Because I'm guessing she has never sat down and said, dad, your dad was never involved with us. Here's what I would love to see. How I would love to see you involved in our life. What she does is she crosses her arms and says, I want you to dance like I want you to dance. And he doesn't do that. He does no model for that. He doesn't do it. And is he doing a good job? No, he's doing a terrible job. He's not doing good. But the fact that he comes to get a picture of his grandkids and drop off a gift, by the way, that's not horribly uninvolved. Because on this show and in my private life, the calls I take from friends and family and strangers, I'll show you horribly uninvolved. He's trying. And for some reason, in my guts, he's got a very clear picture that, like, I don't. You don't do this right when you're around us. You don't. You don't fulfill the fantasy I have in my head about you. And he knows I'm gonna drop this gift off because it's right. I'm gonna take my picture because that's all I got. And then you make up a story about he's off telling people he's the greatest. You don't know. So I don't know. Maybe I'm wrong.

[Kelly]

I think that there's clearly some baggage here from her parents. Divorce.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Tell me more.

[Kelly]

I mean. And I think that she's using that.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

And every time he shows up, she beats him with that luggage.

[Kelly]

Yeah. So the fact that she said so. They divorced after 37 years and he had an affair, and he's with this woman now, so he clearly knows he.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Is not welcome in that house. And so either she needs to sit down and say, dad, I have not forgiven you for blowing up your marriage and for cheating on Mom. I don't want you around my kids. Take ownership of that. Or. But it feels like there's. I don't know, there's something about this that's just clawing at me, which is that man knows I'm not welcome in this house. Or maybe you've forgiven him. Dad, you cheated on mom and you blew up everything, but you're still my dad, faults and all. And I love you. This whole dropping off and just taking pictures. I want you to come spend time with us. I want you to come all the time. By the way, your girlfriend's not welcome. I don't like her. Like, whatever the things are. But give it. Give a dad a road map. Give your mom a road map and let them opt out. But don't, as I've said before, don't write a script and start filming a movie that your parents are cast and they don't even know they're in it. And then get mad at them for not knowing the right lines. They don't even know. They don't know. But I guarantee you that dad knows I am not welcome here. I'm. I want those kids to know I always dropped off a gift for them and I always took their picture. And I'm going to have a library of pictures. So if you sit down and say, and talk what's really going on about this divorce or about cheating on mom, you'll have that conversation. And you say, I want you to come over every Thursday night for dinner with the grandkids. Great. I want you every once a week, every Saturday morning, I want you to come pick the kids up and take them somewhere. And he goes, I ain't doing that. Okay, then yes. Feel free to cut them off or whatever you want to do. I just. I just think, especially parent relationships have just gotten so disposable and so dramatic, and I'M just sick of it, man. People are just chopping their family trees off at the roots because parents said the wrong thing or they did whatever. Give people a chance. Giving people a roadmap back to your heart. Give them a path back to the life you want to invite them into and then let them opt out of it instead of just whatever crossing your arms and looking down your nose at somebody. That's what I have to say about that.

[Kelly]

I don't have anything to add. It's pretty great.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

I'm feeling hot takey today.

[Kelly]

Yeah. I mean we've been doing some research for a further down the road teaching segment that or you know that'll come up about this what you talked about you and I've talked about it and I think you're right and we're seeing that in the data that that's happening. People are cutting their parents off. We're seeing sometimes for good reason, sometimes.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Not so much I think so stay.

[Kelly]

Tuned for often for not staying further. Talk about that.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Man. We were about to land a plane on a pretty clean show and then I was like nah, let's crash it. Let's crash it. Love you guys. Stay in school, don't do drugs. Be nice by.