← The Dr. John Delony Show
Loading summary
Transcript248 lines
- [00:00]
A
Big news. New dates for money and marriage Getaway just dropped for Valentine's Day weekend, 2026. Get tickets@ramseysolutions.com events to get away with your spouse in Nashville, Tennessee.
- [00:21]
B
Ultimately, relationships that are successful, they start with all this incredible passion. But by the end of a couple of years, where you want to get is from passionate love to what we call companionate love.
- [00:30]
A
What about the reverse when somebody says, we' friends for a long time.
- [00:33]
B
Friends on the love zone. Very rare. Usually what happens is that one is in love and the other isn't.
- [00:45]
A
What in the world is going on? Hope you are doing well. I'm not going to lie, dude, it is bonkers out there. And where is out there? Everywhere. Everywhere in the club. But I'm super glad that you are with us and, man, it just, it makes my heart full every time. Hop on here. And we have so many listeners joining us from all over the world. It's amazing. Thank you so much for being with us. All right, this is super exciting. Last year, one of my top shows of the year was when we had a good friend of mine and guest, Dr. Arthur Brooks. He is the Happiness Goat. He's written a book with with Oprah. He has a weekly column in the Atlantic. He teaches at Harvard. He's an amazing gu. And it was one of the top shows of the year. And so I asked him to come back and we take a swan dive into things like happiness and fitness and marriage and a whole bunch of other stuff I don't really even understand because he's super, super smart. Just kidding. I kind of understood it, but also kind of not. He literally is one of the the best guys you will meet and one of the smartest minds out there today in the public sphere. And he is back and we talk about just a million different things. And I can't wait for you to be a fly on the wall. Actually, don't be a fly on the wall. Just pull up a seat. Pull up a seat to this conversation. It's one you're going to want to listen to a couple of times. There's so much good stuff from this. And let me just say this. I mentioned this in the show, but I want you all to know after my first show with Arthur, I made some significant changes in my life when it comes to nutrition, when it comes to my spiritual life, when it comes to just some daily practices. And I'm gonna be honest, I've lost a lot of weight. My spiritual life is better than it's been in years. My marriage is great. Like, I implemented some of the things that we talked about and this conversation was very similar. Like, I had some great takeaways. Not just to think about. I did have those, but things I could do differently in my life. So I can't wait for you to hear round two of my conversation with my great friend, the one and only Dr. Arthur Brooks. Help me with this question. Why do we keep gravitating towards this thing, this thing called marriage?
- [03:01]
B
Right? We are a parabonded species. We're parabonded species. We're like wood storks, you know, and, and it's. We wouldn't necessarily have to be a parabonded species.
- [03:12]
A
Tell me what parabond is. Parabonded means, right, for me and Crayon.
- [03:14]
B
That, that a couple gets together and they, they want to be faithful to each other naturally. They naturally want to be one to one and they want it to last. And their dream is for. That's the person you're looking at as you're taking your dying breath. That's how humans are wired. Okay? Now, not every culture has done that. Not every society has been successful in that. But that's the natural proclivity of Homo sapiens. I think that's the. I mean, there's all this stuff about polyamory and that's all nonsense. I mean, there are certain people who are different than the norm. There are certain people who have different psychology and maybe even different biology when it comes to that. But the vast majority of people are one to one pair bonded, and they wanted to actually last. That is wired into us as a species. That is also, I believe, metaphysically a. A matter of natural law. And so even, by the way, an offshoot of this is that 97% of people, including young people, who are the most emancipated, progressive people morally, you can imagine, 97% say that adultery is morally wrong all the time. Now that's way higher than the number of people who say that prostitution is wrong. So people believe that people want to be one to one, and they believe that cheating's wrong is the bottom line. And they believe those things so strongly that they want to memorialize that union. That's called marriage. Now, there's one step that goes further, that I think that people have a natural sense of the metaphysical because again, the prefrontal cortex, the, the wiring of the brain is very interesting. If you interviewed Lisa Miller at Columbia, so she's the best psychologist, neuroscientist, neuropsychologist, on faith experiences, she Talks about what actually happens in the brain with faith experiences. We have a sense of the divine. We just do. There are no. According to anthropologists, there are no organized civilizations that we've ever had any evidence of in human history that didn't worship. We didn't all worship the same thing in the same way, but we're made to worship. And one of the things that people feel about their marriage, they want it to be magic. Now, love is a right hemisphere thing where all the ineffable, mystical things happen in our brains. And one of the things that we feel is that that pair bond, that union, is an antenna to the divine. And that's what you and I believe as Christian men, by the way, because we believe that the reason that divorce is unnatural is because you're pulling apart. You're tearing apart the ability. Your completion with your wife is the way that she understands God's love and you understand God's love. God's love for is transmitted vis a vis your wife.
- [05:52]
A
Correct.
- [05:53]
B
That's how people feel about. Even if they don't have the theology behind it. That's Genesis 2. You know, that's the Yahwistic understanding of God, is that man is made to be with woman and vice versa. And they're one flesh and it's his rib, you know, and that's real stuff, is actually kind of. And that's a visceral metaphor for actually how we see it. And we only understand God when we have this holy vocation. And most people, that's how we feel. So the point is that we're. For whatever reason, if you're religious, you're not religious. People are wired to feel that, and they want to make that as official as they possibly can, whether they're religious or not. Yeah. And that's just the natural state of being for Homo sapiens, for the vast majority of Homo sapiens. And there's anomalous stuff. I mean, my church, we have priests that are celibate, and there's some people who believe that they.
- [06:49]
A
But that idea is, I'm going to sacrifice this thing.
- [06:52]
B
It's a sacrifice.
- [06:52]
A
Sacrifice, right.
- [06:53]
B
Yeah, it's a sacrifice. And then there. And then there's some people who believe you can be in love with, you know, you know, 15 people in a bicycle at the same. I don't know, whatever. Right. But that's not the norm. That's just not the way people are wired. This is natural. This is natural law. This is how people are meant to be. Most people.
- [07:11]
A
That's a much More complex, yet a much simpler answer than I was thinking.
- [07:15]
B
Yeah.
- [07:16]
A
There's just a gravitational pull towards this thing.
- [07:19]
B
This is human anthropology. Yeah. This is basic human anthropology is that we're not. We're not supposed to be alone. We're not supposed to. We're not lone wolves. We're wired to complete each other and we're wired for love.
- [07:32]
A
And if you're going to pull apart a culture, society, it would be to question that very architecture after.
- [07:42]
B
That's what you got.
- [07:43]
A
Very architecture.
- [07:43]
B
If you, if you want to reorder everything, you start with. You start with couples. Yeah. Pull them apart. You pull them apart. You. You attack romantic love, you attack marital love. That's how you do it.
- [07:56]
A
Okay. But there's also the other side of that. So. Gosh. And I've lost the author's name, but I was recently reading basically an anthropol anthropological account of marriage. And I think that the title of the chapter was When Love Ruined Marriage. And it was the sense of Eli Finkel.
- [08:14]
B
Right?
- [08:16]
A
Yeah, that probably is Eli. Yeah, it was, but it was a. What my takeaway was this. There are things you have to do to fuel this thing and to keep this thing going.
- [08:28]
B
Right.
- [08:28]
A
And if you just rely on how this thing feels, especially in a world that we've dropped humans into that we're not designed to live in.
- [08:35]
B
Right.
- [08:36]
A
This world of over stimulation, over abundance, there is some left brain things you've gotta do. I've got to. I've got to attune to this thing and pay attention to it through action.
- [08:46]
B
Totally. It's not all romance. And so Eli Finkel wrote the all or nothing marriage, right? And his stuff is great. His stuff is. Is really, really interesting and really good. And. And here's the interesting thing about how marriage is supposed to work. Fundamentally there is an ignition process for falling in love, Right. And it starts with sex hormones. That's why people want to be attractive to each other. Like. Like sexually dimorphically attractive to each other. Like red lips and. And not. Not you. That's right. And I mean it's completely anachronistic. The reason is because that is has a bio that elicits a biological response in the potential mate that then quickly goes into the neurochemistry. A stimulation of catecholamines in the brain, most notably norepinephrine and dopamine for euphoria and anticipation of reward. That's when, you know, I think her text, I think I just got a text from her. It's like it's a text. But that anticipation reward has to do with dopamine and norepinephrine.
- [09:50]
A
I skipped the final ones because I thought the woman who's now my wife was gonna be walking across campus at a certain time. And I thought, I bet I can get to that final 30 minutes late. I'm gonna go.
- [10:01]
B
That's it. That's it. Because you were basically, the norepinephrine in your brain was giving you a sense of euphoria at the thought from the dopamine of the anticipated reward.
- [10:10]
A
Right.
- [10:10]
B
And that's step two. Step three is a big drop in serotonin. And this happens a few weeks into a relationship, typically. And reason for that is because. And it looks like depression, by the way, because depression is associated with, you know, ruminative sadness is associated with low serotonin levels because you need to ruminate on the other person. This is how you bond. And that's what it's like. That's when you send 100 text messages like a moron. And like, guys who are 70 years old will. Will exhibit this adolescent behavior because their serotonin levels are in the tank. The ventral lateral prefrontal cortex is highly stimulated because you're ruminating the other person and you. What you want to do.
- [10:45]
A
I've never done this.
- [10:46]
B
Me neither. Never, never, never. And. And step is true bonding to the other person. And that's associated with vasopressin and oxytocin. Right. That's when it's like, you're my kin. I'll defend you. You're my only person. Yeah, that's. And that's where you want to get. And that's where that's this bonding. Ultimately, relationships that are successful, they start with all this incredible passion. This heat. This heat. But. But by the end of a couple of years, or certainly five, where you want to get is from passionate love to what we call companionate love. Yeah, companionate love is best friendship. Not only friendship, but it's best friendship that has tons of oxytocin. And by the way, there's still sex and there's still passion.
- [11:28]
A
They're still fighting, but.
- [11:29]
B
Oh, yeah, well, that's. I mean, like, marry a Spaniard, man, I'll show you fighting. It's like 10,000 fights later. Still love each other. And. But. But that's really important to keep in mind, because if you don't have that, if you don't do the work to actually get to companion at love, you'll break up and hate each other. Why? Because you were Never even friends. You were never even friends. And so you realize you love each other, but you don't like each other. And so the goal is. Is to have loving plus liking. And liking really comes later because that's your friend, that's your mate, that's your. That's your.
- [12:02]
A
What about the reverse when somebody says, we were friends for long, friend zone.
- [12:05]
B
Friends on the love zone.
- [12:06]
A
But then we become. I guess.
- [12:08]
B
Yeah, it's very rare. Yeah, it's very rare in the literature. It's very rare. And usually what happens is that one is in love and the other isn't. It's an asymmetric thing. And typically a man is in love with a woman, and the woman's not in love with the man, but she likes the guy because he's awesome and he brings her a latte and he's sturdy and stable, and he listens to her troubles about all her, you know, the jerks that she's dating. And what that is is an asymmetric love relationship. And he's pining away, hoping to get out of the friend zone. Sorry, it's very difficult to get out of the friend zone. And part of the reason is because you're not going to run the neurochemical cascade in reverse, right? It doesn't work that way. You're not going to suddenly, you know, I was like, wow, I went to step one after knowing each other for four years.
- [12:49]
A
Very unusual. That right there is the biochemical reason. I think dating apps ultimately follow themselves because you never get those moments.
- [12:58]
B
Well, you're not. Courting is not intended to work that way. You know, you're not supposed to adjudicate your. Or to. To curate your relationships for. On the basis of if they like Trump, right. And they think, you know, NBA basketball is okay, and they like Sriracha and want to move to Austin. I mean, that's. These are not. These are. You know, they're not the criteria for actual. The other thing is, by the way, that on the dating apps, it's so shallow and superficial what you get about a person. That 10% of the guys get all the action, right? Because the guys that, I mean, women find 80% of men disgusting. Men find 20% of women unattractive. And so that asymmetry, per SE means that 10% of guys get turned into dark triad narcissists because they get all the action. They got a roster of women that they're getting, and the other 90% are going dry because they can't have. There's no questions. There's no personality, there's no depth. There's no reason to fall in love with a guy if he doesn't pass the looks good on the dating this.
- [14:00]
A
Told you make this much money and exactly right.
- [14:02]
B
This is why this is how it's messing up dating and courting in so many fundamental ways. That's why, by the way, that relationships that start on the apps, some of them are great. But on average when marriages occur pursuant to meeting on an app, they tend to be less stable and they feature less attraction because they're less likely to actually go through the cascade in the right direction. Go to passionate companionate best friendship. It's a problem. It's a problem. When you mediate any relationships electronically, you're going to have trouble. Yeah, yeah, yeah you are. Because we're made to be in person. That's why, you know, you and I could do this electronic. We could do this virtually. It wouldn't be as good because getting oxytocin right now through the eye contact and touch, that's how you get eye contact and touch. How you get how you get true human human connection with your friends and especially with your family.
- [14:51]
A
All right, it's Cozy Earth time. Listen, hearing that term nine to five you think about work is just a bummer. Makes you think of your boss with coffee breath and TPS reports and co workers with no boundaries or trying to work from home with kids running around acting bonkers all summer. This is why Cozy Earth wants to make your 5 to 9 the time that matters most, the most comfortable part of your day. Cozy Earth is a huge part of how my wife and I make our home warm and cozy. My wife loves her Cozy Earth pajamas and she gets into them as early as possible without being weird. And I love Cozy Earth T shirts and pants because they're soft and breathable, but they're super tough. They survived my front yard wrestling matches with my daughter and my long runs with my son. Plus my whole family loves Cozy Earth's temperature regulating sheets. They naturally wick away heat and moisture from your body and they help you sleep several degrees cooler. Cozy Earth is so confident that they offer a hundred night sleep trial. Try them during the hottest nights of the year and if you don't absolutely love them, you can return them hassle free. And of course Cozy earth offers a 10 year warranty on all bedding products for a decade of great sleep. Go to cozyearth.com DeLoney and use code DeLoney for 40% off their best selling temperature regulating sheets, apparel and more Trust me, you're going to feel the difference the very First Night. That's cozyearth.com DeLoney and use code DeLoney to save 40% off your entire purchase. Sleep cooler. Lounge lighter. Stay cozy. All right, so I want to talk about a couple of these controversial ideas you put out.
- [16:34]
B
Okay. All right.
- [16:35]
A
You have a controversial idea, and I usually don't read from these, but I got it.
- [16:39]
B
And we're talking about this new book, so. Yeah, yeah.
- [16:42]
A
Controversial idea of managing yourself. So here's what I wrote. Past 25, but more like past 50 years. The cultural, cultural ethos is you do. You and the rest of culture, workforce, love, relationships, houses of faith, all these ideals are supposed to bend around whatever path you feel like going on. The challenge is, as we all have seen around us in the last couple years, that isn't traffic in reality. And so one of the meta ideas I've taken from your work is this idea of going to war with ourselves is not helpful. And neither is living hedonically living just how you feel.
- [17:19]
B
Right?
- [17:19]
A
I don't feel like working out. Well, then don't. I don't feel like this relationship anymore. Well, then end it.
- [17:23]
B
Right.
- [17:25]
A
So how do you explain this idea of managing yourself to a culture that's been taught you do whatever you want and the world should bend to you.
- [17:32]
B
The world's lying to you and the world's lying to you because we've gotten into the. We're listening to the big lie that Mother Nature tells us. Now, here's the mistake that people make. I have natural urges, and I want to be happy. So if I follow my natural urges, I'll be happy. That's wrong. That's what every major philosophy and religious tradition has always taught, that you actually have to stand up to your natural tendencies. Mother Nature has only two goals for John Deloney and Arthur Brooks and everybody watching us pass on your genes and survive another day, that's all Mother Nature wants. Happiness. Well, being, love. These are divine goals, and they require that you understand your natural proclivities and not fall prey to them. Look, if we act like animals, we'll live like animals. That's the bottom line. You can live like your dog. You can live like a golden retriever. Somebody puts something tasty in front of you, you just eat it.
- [18:24]
A
Okay, what about the other side of that, though? Which is. I just heard a great debate on the other side of this, which is if we. We have these natural proclivities, but we can just dream them away, you can't do that either, right?
- [18:41]
B
You have to be. You have to. You have to recognize the fact that these things exist and they exist for a reason. That you're hungry because you need nutrition and that will help keep you alive. That you're attracted to your wife. Because in evolutionary times you need to have an attract to your wife. You need to have a sexual urge such that you'll propagate the genes. I got that. The whole point is understanding when it's healthy and when it doesn't serve you and when it doesn't serve society and when it doesn't serve the. Not the physical truth, the metaphysical truth. Because we are. I mean, this is the most amazing thing. We're the only creature. I mean, even if you're not religious, you recognize that we have a prefrontal cortex, the part of our brain, the C suite of our brain right behind our forehead. That's the 30% of your brain by weight. That's the magic of the human brain. That makes you different than every other creature. And it gives you different factor, right? That gives you divine knowledge. And here's divine knowledge, even if you don't believe in God, this is metaphysical knowledge. You're going to die. You're alive and you're going to die. There's no well here. That's the funny thing about it because you know you're going to die, but you can't conceive of the cessation of existence. That's this weird thing. And that's why people freak out all the time. That's why a lot of scientists believe we invented religion so that we could solve that conundrum. Yeah, I'm going to die, but I'm not going to cease existing because I'm going to go to heaven, right? I happen to believe that's truth. But the whole thing about that is that we have an antenna to the metaphysical. That's what our brain is actually attuned to do. And that being the case means that we can also understand our urges and understand when they don't serve us and know that we want more happiness and love by standing up to our urges. And that's self management. And that's an incredible source of empowerment for, for human beings.
- [20:23]
A
And that to me, the. If there's been one word, as I've tried to step back now that I'm not teaching anymore and I'm in this new ecosystem, I've tried to come up with this word. I know, I know of, of the, of a cultural moment. And the only word I can come up with is disempowerment.
- [20:41]
B
Yeah.
- [20:42]
A
It's this idea that, you know, either you can't just go over in the corner and pat you on the head.
- [20:46]
B
We'Ll take care of you because you're.
- [20:47]
A
Whatever you've done, whatever's happened to you, whatever. Whatever variables we want to stick on you, you're not gonna be able to. We'll take care of it for you. Or the other side is like, there is no breaks to freedom. Just run as fast as you can. And if there's a wall in front of you, we're gonna blame the wall. Just keep going. And it's madness on both sides, but at the end of the day, it's. It's disempowering.
- [21:10]
B
Yeah. That's the reason, by the way, There's a rebellion forming, why so many young guys are reading the Stoics. Yeah. That's why Ryan Holiday stuff is so popular right now. I mean, Ryan Holiday is like a cult figure. And what is he doing? He's talking about Marcus Aurelius. He's like, yeah, this new crazy thing. It's called Seneca. Seneca the Elder. I mean, it's a, you know, Epictetus and. And all this. He's bringing back these Greeks and romans from, you know, 2000, 2500 years ago. And people are eating it up. Why? Because they know it's a lie. They know the modern currency is totally counterfeit. They know that it's not in their interest, and they're being sold out. Why? By whom? By people that want to productize them.
- [21:51]
A
That's it.
- [21:51]
B
When somebody's trying to make you into a libertine because they want you not to have control of your appetites. And when you don't have control of your appetites, you're going to spend 14 hours frittering it away on social media. You're not going to have the courage to ask a girl out on a date. You're going to just do this on an app.
- [22:07]
A
Are you going to spend money you don't have?
- [22:08]
B
You're not going to make progress. You're going to pretend that gaming is real progress as opposed to real progress in life. Now, don't kill me. I know gaming is fun, within limits. But 10% of gamers, by the way, have. Have a chronic set of behaviors that is inhibiting their ability to function, which is no joke.
- [22:25]
A
Well, take that away. But. But, like, hey, Arthur, there's a game on.
- [22:27]
B
Let's.
- [22:27]
A
I'll give you five bucks if they win. Has turned into.
- [22:30]
B
Exactly. So gambling Traffic, gambling is taking the place of playing sports. That's right. And so what we find is that we have a society where we are being productized vis a vis our neurochemistry. And what it's doing is it's turning us into beings that cannot stand up to our own urges. That's why people think that, by the way, interesting, for the first time since we've been keeping data on this, young men are now more likely to be religious than young women. So that being the case, then, I think that what you and I have an opportunity to serve as our apostolate that you evangelical guys like to say. Mission Catholics say apostolate because it's a harder word.
- [23:10]
A
You know, it's like screw up everything, maybe more complex.
- [23:14]
B
Our apostolate is to get the spirit of rebellion against that with more young women today because they need to stop being productized. They need to stand up to that. And their, their brains are being productized by the tech world. And the people who say that they're victims. They're not victims. Are you kidding? They're the domestic civilizing force in our society.
- [23:35]
A
Right, Right through the heartbeat of the whole.
- [23:37]
B
Who would you and I be? Yeah, yeah. Without our wives?
- [23:39]
A
Oh, nothing.
- [23:40]
B
It would be. Are you kidding? We'd be like out in a ditch drinking together right now or something.
- [23:44]
A
Yeah, yeah, yeah. Nothing.
- [23:46]
B
But that's the point. That's the point. Women need to understand the empowerment that they deserve to feel. And they, they deserve to have relationships where they're not used, where they're adored, where a guy would fight a tiger for them.
- [23:58]
A
Elevated.
- [23:58]
B
Yeah, that's, that's what, what, that's what they deserve is the whole point. And they're not getting it because they've been monetized by predators as men have. Yeah.
- [24:10]
A
And that's, that's the other thing that I've, I've come Into the last 24 months is this sense of no one's writing blogs about it. And it's not, it's uncouth to say, I don't know, a father absent, maybe you. That thinks they're doing a great job. I don't know. A father, I don't know, husband that thinks I'm getting this thing down.
- [24:35]
B
None of us, I mean, look, you're going day to day and it's, it's.
- [24:37]
A
It'S, you know what I mean?
- [24:38]
B
It's mano a mano. And so none of us, even though that, that objectively has kids who are doing well, we're still like, ah, I screwed it up again.
- [24:45]
A
Exactly. Exactly.
- [24:46]
B
Yeah. It's actually probably pretty healthy if you think you're a great father. I'm suspicious.
- [24:51]
A
Well, that. And that's. You know, it's. It's. I. I spoke at a. At a large church recently for Father's Day, and the pastor before I went up said, hey, every Mother's Day, pastors across the country get up and go, mothers. Y' all are crushing it. Y' all are overburdened. And then every Father's Day is like, dad, you suck. You need to step it up. Please don't do that. And. But it was just a sense of. I don't know that anybody looks around objectively and says, we're doing a good job. I think that my grandparents thought they were doing with the best they had.
- [25:19]
B
With what they had. Yeah.
- [25:20]
A
And that tells me there has been a commoditization of. Of individual people and groups of people.
- [25:27]
B
Yeah.
- [25:27]
A
That if I can make you feel bad, then I could sell you something.
- [25:30]
B
Yeah. Well, I don't think my dad ever asked himself if he was being a good dad, and I think that's a good thing. I think that he just did what needed to be done. He loved me, and he was a great example. Right. He did. He. He. Fathers. Being a good father, a lot of it is showing up and being a good man. It's sort of. It's really interesting. I mean, you know, the greatest service you can give your sons as a dad, you know, the. And. And. And you'll say, I've heard you say.
- [25:54]
A
But love their mom really well.
- [25:56]
B
Love their mom really well. Yeah. It's just. You want to know the number one job? Being a dad. Love their mom.
- [26:02]
A
Be the best spouse possible. Yeah.
- [26:03]
B
It's. It's amazing. And so. And so the result is that it's kind of easy to discount that. But the truth of the matter. And. And by the way, number two is have your kids see you on your knees in prayer. See it like. Like, my dad's really strong. He would never be on his knees in front of a man. But there's something bigger than what he said. Yeah. And said that he will submit to something greater. He will love abundantly one person faithfully every day. Right. And. And when you talk trash about mom, he's like, don't talk about mom that way.
- [26:31]
A
That's right. That's right. That's my wife, dude. Yeah.
- [26:33]
B
This is like teen parents against Team Rugrats.
- [26:36]
A
That's right.
- [26:36]
B
And. And he submits to the master. Those are the Two greatest gifts. And so, okay, yeah, so maybe in church, they're, they're not valorizing that in the same way because you don't see the service in the same way. But guys, that's the service. Yeah, that's it. Those are your two core competencies. And if you do that, it's okay if you die.
- [26:54]
A
The other day, my son and I were running. He's a cross country stud. And I'm not. I'm an old man now. And so I'm trying to keep up and.
- [27:02]
B
Old man you like. I'm trying to be president.
- [27:05]
A
I know it's good. It's a toupee. So we were running real hard and we were at the point where he's kind of talking and with his head turned and I'm. I'm in dad mode. Like, I know this is going to cost me three or four days of my life after this, but I'm gonna get this time. And out of nowhere, this woodchucky beaver squirrel thing shoots out of the road.
- [27:23]
B
Varmint.
- [27:24]
A
Yeah. And I let one fly. A swear word. Fly.
- [27:28]
B
Isn't that bomb?
- [27:29]
A
No. All right, all right. It wasn't the mother load.
- [27:32]
B
That's right.
- [27:34]
A
I got back and so this is the disclosure. I have a terrible mouth, but it's conversational. When I, When I get angry, never swear. I get real calm. 99 time. When I get scared, I never do this thing just jumped out.
- [27:45]
B
Yeah, yeah.
- [27:47]
A
We got back and my son, we're all sweaty and hot and exhausted, and he had his hands on his knees and he stood up and he said, dad, I never heard you say that word before. I've never heard you say a bad word. And I was like, well, oops, here you go, man. I made it 15 years. And he laughed. I laughed. And anyway, you have an excellent article in here about mindful cursing.
- [28:09]
B
Yeah.
- [28:10]
A
And when I was a kid, my. My diet of what I would call mind food consisted of mostly punk bands and Pantera and scary movies. And I remember one time my dad heard me swear and he said, you know, kind of read me the. Read me the riot act. And I said, I can't help it, dad. And he said, I've never heard you swear in front of your grandmother. I've never heard you swear at church. That's not true. You can if you choose to. You can. I remember exhaling like a 14 year old. And I was like, actually, that's fair. All right, so you write this. Swearing is negative, negatively correlated with conscientiousness and agreeableness People don't want to be around it. Researchers have found that doctors who curse in front of patients are seen as less trustworthy and less experts than those who don't. But profanity was associated with less lying and deception. So people hear somebody swear and we immediately assume that's probably trustworthy. I think, like Joe Rogan, like, I believe that our comedians, like, I believe them because. Because they're swearing. Research shows that swearing alleviates discomfort of social stress.
- [29:14]
B
Yeah.
- [29:15]
A
There's a guy who works really hard to not swear all the time. It's conversational. I told you, my wife can tell what generation I friend I'm speaking to.
- [29:25]
B
Right.
- [29:25]
A
It's like calling a friend from, from Mexico and you just start speaking Spanish. My wife's like, oh, I know who those friends are. Just because it comes out without thinking. Talk me through mindful swearing. And I guess as a, as a guy of a person of faith and a person of intellect.
- [29:40]
B
Yeah, yeah, it's.
- [29:41]
A
It's not like a buffoon.
- [29:42]
B
If you have a policy, if you're going to have a policy, have a policy against cursing.
- [29:46]
A
Okay.
- [29:47]
B
And the reason for that is that it, it never really helps very much, and it can actually hurt a lot. And people are funny because they're making a decision to swear. Usually a couple of seconds before. Am I going to say that cuss word and then it comes out. Yeah, but it's also very interesting, you know, that neurophysiologically it's a phenomenon that cursing that's involuntary. So it's voluntary cursing. We decide to curse and you're going to put it for a form of expression in a conversation, or there's involuntary cursing. And most people do both. Involuntary cursing is actually not produced in the same hemisphere of the brain as voluntary cursing.
- [30:25]
A
It was a neural problem, not a problem.
- [30:28]
B
Well, yeah, for sure. So interestingly, you'll find that, you know, some people who suffer from Tourette syndrome, that's a, that's a phenomenon that's occurring in the right hemisphere of the brain. And, and some people, they'll curse involuntarily when they have Tourette. And, and your involuntary cursing will come basically from the same part of your brain as a tick. And so that's a different kettle of fish. And that's a different issue, you know, trying to discipline that. Then just don't make the decision. What is it? It's. Where is this? Romans 13:11. I can't. Somebody's going to correct me. Because, look, I'm Catholic, I outsource my Bible reading to professionals that don't make plans to sin. Just. And you know, okay, stuff happens. Right. But don't make plans to sin. It's also very interesting when people fall off. They're alcoholic and they stop drinking, and then they fall off the wagon. They almost. According to the data, you've seen this, too. They almost always plan to fall off the wagon. There's a plan being Friday after work, I'm gonna. People say, I don't know what happened, honey. I just kind of had an affair. No, you didn't. You planned it. You planned it. So it's the same thing with little things. And I'm not saying that cursing is like having an affair. Obviously not. I mean, these are different in nature and magnitude. Don't plan to sin. Just don't plan to do it is what it comes down to. And that's basically the right policy to understand. You're the best. Dad.
- [31:51]
A
Poncho is back. As a supporter of this show, and I'm super jazzed about it. If you've seen me on this show or on stages across the country, I'm almost always wearing Poncho shirts. I got one on right now. I wear Poncho when I'm fishing in the Gulf, and I was wearing Poncho shirts all weekend while I was mowing my little miniature farm out here in Nashville. I'm telling you, you should wear poncho, too, because Poncho makes the absolute best outdoor performance shirts. And I also wear them inside for men, Period. I love Poncho's denims and their insanely soft flannels. But now that it's a million degrees outside, I'm wearing Poncho's ultralight shirts, too. They're lightweight and breathable, and they're still tough enough to handle whatever chaos my day brings, Everything from travel to being up to my chest, fishing in the surf, or doing outside labor. These shirts move with you, not against you, and they dry fast and they don't cling or bunch up. And they come in slim or regular fits so you don't look like a circus tent or a sausage link. Now, here's what I want you to do. Head over to ponchooutdoors.com DeLoney right now and check out the selection of my favorite shirts, like the Laramie and the Buffalo. Right now, new customers get 10 bucks off your first purchase when you sign up with your email. That's $10 off@ponchooutdoors.com Deloney Poncho is the best. Go check Them out. So I had this moment with my son where it was in sixth grade, maybe seventh grade. He came in and he called a family meeting, and I was like, oh.
- [33:25]
B
My gosh, Are you for real? Oh, no.
- [33:28]
A
But he sat down, Me and my wife, literally, we sat down and. And he said, I would like to not play baseball this spring, and instead, I'd like to audition for the school play. And of course, we were like, I did theater in college. We're like, yes, absolutely. This is amazing. And we high fived him. Full support's awesome. But when he left, I looked at my wife, I said, but Deloney's play baseball in the spring. And it was this weird. I was so proud of him. Excited. Of course, man. Be awesome. Go. Go to theater. And also, I did not realize that I was gonna have this little twinge of, my granddad played baseball in the spring. My dad did. I did. And so is there. Is there any sort of. Like, you're a full professor at Harvard.
- [34:11]
B
Yeah.
- [34:13]
A
And a musician to boot. And then it was. And then your kids come out and they say, hey, I want to go farm. I want to go to the military, and I'll work in construction.
- [34:21]
B
Yeah.
- [34:21]
A
Obviously, as a dad, you're like, yes, go be successful and be great. But also kind of, the Brooks, we go to college. Right. Is that there?
- [34:29]
B
Not really. It's weird. I would have thought that it was. So not only am I a college professor, my dad was a college professor, and his dad was a college professor. And so this is an epidemic.
- [34:39]
A
That's what the Brooks do.
- [34:40]
B
An epigenetic expression. You know, it's academia. Right. I mean, this is so. So I would have thought, you know, you're not going to call. We worked hard for this, but what happens. It's a really funny thing. As your kids are going to adolescence, you need to think. We all think this is the kind of thing that you advise people calling in every day.
- [34:58]
A
You tell them, but, yeah, no, but.
- [35:00]
B
But you think to yourself, what. What is success? What does success actually look like? And I remember there was a time when, you know, my son Carlos, my middle son, who is a Marine, who didn't go to college when he was. He was screwing up in high school, and he was not motivated. And every day was another crisis. And. And. And I was haranguing him by doing his homework constantly. And finally I thought to myself, what am I spending 95% of my time talking about with Carlos? Stuff I actually don't care about, but is a proxy for the things that I Do care about the proxy is I think that these represent his success in some other realm. So I'm talking about the thing one or two steps removed. I thought, I bet he doesn't understand that. I bet he actually thinks I care about his homework. Like I give a rip about his math homework. No, no, no, no. I want him to be a successful person and grow up and graduate from high school so he'll have opportunities and he'll have a good family, he happy person and. And a. And a productive member of society. That's what I want. I thought to myself, what do I care about? What do I actually care about? I want a son who's honest with himself and others. I want a son who's compassionate with other people and I want a son who's a Christian. That's what I want. Yeah. And so I sat down with him and said, look, I'm hassling you about your homework, but I'm making a mistake. I'm making a mistake here because you probably think I care about your homework. Like, yeah, obviously, dad, you care about my homework. No, I care about three things. And if these three things happen, everything else is gravy. Yeah. I literally don't care about. I want you to be good and love other people in the world. I want you to be honest with yourself and other people and I want you to love the Lord. That's what I want. And then because you know what, everything's going to fall into place.
- [36:43]
A
That's right.
- [36:46]
B
And again, you and I as Christian men sometimes screw up and the whole thing, but there's always a way when you're compassionate, honest and faithful to get back to what you actually want. And he visibly relaxed and. And, and it's. Our relationship changed when I finally told him. What? No, when I finally told myself what I truly want with my son and.
- [37:03]
A
Then told him, I, dude, I had the same. My son was coming down shirt was always on backwards or he'd have different colored socks on, whatever. And it was my wife that pointed it out. But 95 of our conversations were, hey, fix your collar. Have you washed your hair? Fix your shirt. What? And it had the very similar. I could care. Dude, I. I'm an old punk rock. I could care less what you're wearing. I'm more worried about how other people are going to think, you know what? I'm wasting my time. And I sat him down. I told him, I'm gonna. I'm releasing you to the middle school wolves. Like they will self correct your clothing choices. I'm not gonna lose my relationship with you over this. And as you said, I, I think the, the, the practice of telling him I've done this wrong.
- [37:41]
B
Right.
- [37:42]
A
Was way more impactful than anything else. And then I remember telling his, his friends a couple years later, you all failed me. Because they didn't change nothing.
- [37:49]
B
They were like, yeah, man.
- [37:51]
A
Which is awesome. Which is awesome.
- [37:53]
B
That's actually part of his stick, actually. It's like kind of who he is as a person.
- [37:56]
A
Well, I realized they want to be around somebody who loves well and is a. Is a. A young, growing man of faith and who cares for people. They don't care what a socks look like. And that's my baggage.
- [38:06]
B
Right. I know, I know. And then, and then, of course, you know, somebody watching us right now is going to ask, so what would you do if he did? He wasn't one of those things. One of the big three. And I don't know. I mean, that's a, That's a good question, too, because you're going to love your child no matter what.
- [38:21]
A
Well, not no matter what, because, I mean, the first. Gosh, the first 20 years of my career working as a dean of students was kids coming to my office saying, I can't go home for various reasons. My mom and dad won't let me sit at the kitchen table.
- [38:33]
B
But I'm gonna love myself.
- [38:34]
A
That's right.
- [38:35]
B
I'm gonna love my son. If my son robs a bank, I'm still gonna love my son. Yeah. I don't mean I'm gonna up.
- [38:39]
A
I'll sit by you while you get sentenced, but I'll sit, but I'm gonna.
- [38:42]
B
Love you no matter what. There's nothing that's gonna take. Including. And it's interesting because there's all this research on the. The schism between parents and children, which is really, really important for people watching us to understand. Schisms are almost schisms, by which I mean parents and adult children not speaking. 11% of mothers with adult children are not speaking to at least one of their kids.
- [39:04]
A
25 to 30% of the calls that come into this show are about one or the other have cut each other.
- [39:09]
B
Off. Completely heartbreaking. Completely heartbreaking. The number one reason for that is not what people think, which is behavioral differences. So, you know, you come home from college and you say this, I'm not going to church anymore. It's like, I'm not going to church anymore. That doesn't do it. You come home and say, I think I'm gay. That doesn't do it. Right. I'm voting for Trump or not Trump or whatever. Right, right. That doesn't do it. The problem is when the adult children reject the values of the parents, so they say not only am I not going to chur going to church, that thing that you think is stupid and you shouldn't go to church either. That's what leads to a schism. And so the whole point is for parents and their adult children, live your life. Let other people live their lives. Don't reject their values.
- [39:52]
A
Yeah, hang on.
- [39:52]
B
That, that turns out to be. And you'll, you're going to be okay. You're not going to like it that your kid's not going to church, but you'll be able to live with it and you'll still have a loving relationship and you'll still have good laughs on Thanksgiving and it's going to be okay. But the minute that the kid says no, no, no, no, I, your whole way of thinking is wrong. Right. That's when schism starts. Declaration or vice versa. Or vice versa. Yeah. It's basically rejecting the person as opposed to disapproving of the behavior. Fundamental difference.
- [40:22]
A
And that's hard in this current culture when parents have the only identify. Like their only report card anymore is this thing called net worth. And the performance of my child a lot. And so if my adult child is not performing right, voting the correct way, loving the correct way, living the correct way, then if I've outsourced my self worth to their performance, then it's a, it's, it's a, it's a declaration of failure on my part and I have to die on that hill.
- [40:50]
B
Right. Yeah. And that, that's the personalization of the performance of your kids. And that's not true love. Yeah, that's not authentic love. Yeah, it's a huge problem. You know, do you love your kid?
- [40:59]
A
You're using your kid as a Xanax.
- [41:00]
B
Yeah, yeah.
- [41:00]
A
Right.
- [41:01]
B
Well, it's also projecting your own object autobiography onto the blank screen of your kid and that's just not the right thing to do.
- [41:07]
A
Yeah, we, Uncle Rico, our kids. Right.
- [41:10]
B
Napoleon Dynamite reference.
- [41:12]
A
You guys, you guys gotta play football. Because I would have. Yeah.
- [41:15]
B
And it's a very, very easy thing to do. And I made. That was one of my first son. He was in college. My first son went to college and is a really, really good student. Really, really smart and applied and, and he was struggling with this thing. And struggling with this thing. And I say, I said to him at one point, he said, do you realize how much we sacrificed for you to go to college. And I thought. What did I just say?
- [41:34]
A
That came out.
- [41:35]
B
I'm a behavioral scientist. Fortunately, I listen to myself when it comes out of my mouth, and I can actually do a little bit of analysis, get myself on the couch. But I thought, you know, it's like, it's his college, it's his life, for Pete's sake, and it's going to be fine. Of course it was.
- [41:50]
A
Of course it was. All right. So I, I, I this time I, I've got a, an advanced copy of the Happiness Files, which is a compilation of articles you've written over the last few years.
- [42:01]
B
Yeah.
- [42:03]
A
And a. Just your ability to write is so. Well, to take very complex things and make them digestible for a simpleton is such a blessing.
- [42:09]
B
That's what you're doing every day, man.
- [42:10]
A
Well, it's like. But I can do it conversationally. The, the art of the, of writing the way you do is, gosh, it's a master.
- [42:17]
B
It's all reps. I appreciate it.
- [42:18]
A
Normally I would leave this at the end, but I don't want to, I don't want to leave it because I don't run out of time.
- [42:22]
B
Time.
- [42:23]
A
After our last meeting together and we've had a couple phone calls, you know, I need you to know you can see it. We talked about the green room because of your personal influence on me. It caused me to exhale a little bit and just be reflective. I'm down a chunk of weight. Good. I have re engaged with Faith in a way that's been profound. Your interaction with me and your influence on me has been profound. And it's just, it's helping my wife and my kids and my neighbor. So it's great.
- [42:52]
B
You know, that's, I mean, that's a gift guide guy. Well, that's a thank you to me that you would tell me that. And, you know, you and I both are followers of the Master. Yeah. Yeah. And that's who's influencing both of us. And it's like iron sharpens Iron Man.
- [43:04]
A
Yeah.
- [43:05]
B
I mean, this is, this is really what we're trying to do. And it's funny because it was 10 minutes ago that I was your age. And it's funny how your brain changes. I mean, in 15 years when you're my age, there's a John Deloney that you're going to be talking to who's the next really great leader in this. And we have to reinforce each other because the truth of the matter is that you can't do this on your own.
- [43:28]
A
Absolutely.
- [43:28]
B
You can't. And, and you help me, I help you, you help somebody else. And let's hold each other up.
- [43:33]
A
It's awesome.
- [43:34]
B
Because the truth is the truth.
- [43:35]
A
That's right.
- [43:36]
B
And we have this sacred mission to help other people. But to do that we have to be strong. That's right.
- [43:43]
A
And I think the illusion that I even found myself falling for is that strength comes alone. Alone. That strength is found by myself.
- [43:54]
B
Yeah.
- [43:54]
A
And that's just false.
- [43:55]
B
Right? That's not right. I mean that we are, we are aspen trees. And there's an illusion of our individuality, of the strength and beauty and solitary. The notion that the tree itself by. I mean, it's like he is like a tree planted by streams of water that prospers in all that he does. It's like the first psalm. But the aspen tree is connected to every other aspen tree by a root system. The individuality is an illusion. There's an illusion of my individuality separate from you, John, and you from your kids and all of us from each other. And until we strengthen our roots. And the way that I strengthen my roots is by talking to you.
- [44:37]
A
Well, and vice versa. But it's important to know just for people watching and listening. Like you and I could spend all day talking academics. I don't get to do that anymore. And so it's fun for me and talking like the gymnastics of it all. But I left our interaction home, changed my behavior, which is awesome. And I can't get up at 4. 00 every morning like you do.
- [44:57]
B
4, 3, 4. Oh, 4:30. Oh, 4:30.
- [45:01]
A
I gave it a shot. But all to say is thank you for that. Thank you.
- [45:04]
B
That's great. I'm glad to hear it. Tell me about the, the, the, the journey of your physical fitness.
- [45:11]
A
I mean, I, I've been physical fitness guy my whole life.
- [45:13]
B
Your whole life.
- [45:14]
A
So it's been a just a way of being. And so it's one of those things that almost I take for granted that, that like you just wake up and work out. And then I had some great profound run ins with folks that are friends of mine like Lane Norton and Jocko and some of those guys that, hey, take it one step further.
- [45:31]
B
Yeah.
- [45:32]
A
And then that became, that became a way of not dealing with other issues.
- [45:39]
B
Right.
- [45:39]
A
Is I'm just going to get work out. That's going to solve all my. It's going to solve my marriage problems. My spiritual.
- [45:45]
B
You were using workout.
- [45:46]
A
It became a Xanax.
- [45:47]
B
Right. Okay.
- [45:47]
A
And then just I Got on the road and I got sloppy, I got lazy about how I, how I am a good steward of my body when it comes to what I consume. And I'm in my, I'm heading in my late 40s now. And so I used, it's like the, I used to be able to outspend my budget because I could out earn it and watch things change.
- [46:07]
B
Catching up. Things change. Yeah, absolutely. So I mean, and the reason I ask that is because, you know, people might be, might be wondering, I'm a professor of happiness and I'm super into fitness and, and people ask, what's the relationship? So John's getting back into really good shape. Arthur's serious about working out every day for an hour. What's the connection to happiness and wellbeing? And the answer to that is that people who have very high levels of negative affect, and that means intense negative mood, which is a quarter of the population, is above average in positive affect and above average in negative affect. High affect people. John Deloney is a high affect person. You're a classic mad scientist. That's right. And the result of that is that you actually don't need to do that much to hike up your happiness. You need to manage your unhappiness. Exactly right. And your unhappiness is a gift. That high negative affect is a gift because it makes you take a bite out of absolutely everything and you can actually connect with the people who call into the show. You're like, no, no, no, no, no. And you're animated and you're interesting to watch and that's one of the reasons you're successful. But you suffer.
- [47:07]
A
It's got a morose side to it.
- [47:08]
B
So there are good ways to manage your negative affect and there are bad ways to manage your negative affect. Lots of people watching us right now and they watch your show because they're trying to help manage their negative affect effect. The two worst ways to manage your negative effect are drugs and alcohol that numb you and workaholism which distracts you.
- [47:26]
A
And that's been my. Yeah, that's been my cocaine.
- [47:28]
B
Right behind it now is Internet use. Is, is abusive Internet use. Okay. So the two best ways to do it are prayer, meditation, spirituality, and number two is physical fitness. And, and it's especially helpful first thing in the morning. Morning. Because that's when your negative effect is the highest. You wake up and you're like, oh, you know, all those people are like, it's a great day. It's like, they're so annoying.
- [47:53]
A
Exactly.
- [47:53]
B
Not me. Man. So I wake up, I'm like, all right, here we go again. And it's into the gym, and you hit it. And that manages negative affect as effectively as everything else. And then that's when the great thing about being Catholic, by the way, John, that's when I go to mass, I. I work out. If I go from 4:45 to 5:45 in the gym, I take a shower, and mass is 6:30 to 7.
- [48:14]
A
Okay?
- [48:14]
B
And then, and only then do I actually administer to the psychostimulants, AKA I drink caffeine. I'm not smoking meth. And. And then you get maximum dopamine. So I can get maximum. I can get. I can get four hours of clean focus, attention, creativity by going through that particular protocol, which also manages my negative affect. And that's a really important thing for people to understand.
- [48:37]
A
But if you go to that teeter totter, you stomp that, that, that anticipatory. I don't want to get too nerdy.
- [48:45]
B
You're talking about dopamine now, folks.
- [48:47]
A
You. You hold, hold, hold before you. You earn all of it before you let it rip.
- [48:53]
B
Totally. So. Which is awesome. Well, there's a theory about that that's contested in the neuroscience literature about why you should wait two hours before you drink caffeine. So Huberman talks about this a little bit. It's about the. The circulating adenosine in the brain. It's when an inhibitory neurotransmitter, Neurotransmitt, neuromodulator in the brain, it keeps you. So your excitatory and inhibitory neurochemicals, they keep you up and down. They keep you in equilibrium. They try to balance it, they try to balance you. So you get up too hyped up, and it brings you down a little bit. Now, the molecule for adenosine, which is supposed to inhibit you and make you sleepy and make you a little bit tired, it looks just like the molecule for caffeine. And so what happens is when you've got adenosine in your brain, it's got parking spots, it goes into. And if you substitute caffeine for those parking spots, the adenosine doesn't go in there. So caffeine doesn't pep you up. It makes you unable to go down.
- [49:41]
A
It blocks your body's understanding how tired you are.
- [49:44]
B
And so some neuroscientists believe that you have a ton of it. When you first wake up in the morning, it's still circulating. That's why you're groggy in the morning. And so you try to substitute for all that with the caffeine first thing, but it's still circulating, looking for a parking space, which is why you crash at 2:00 clock in the afternoon. If you have your caffeine too early, let it metabolize, let it go away in the first two hours that you're working out, then have your caffeine. It will be the cleanest buzz you can get. And there's no crash.
- [50:11]
A
I still love morning cafe.
- [50:12]
B
I know. I love it.
- [50:13]
A
I love it.
- [50:14]
B
I know, I know. See, we got. We just nerded out on neurochemistry.
- [50:16]
A
Sorry.
- [50:17]
B
Let's go back to love and faith.
- [50:18]
A
There you go. Well, dude, they're telling me you got a heart out.
- [50:24]
B
I said many words. I think it's awesome, man. I love being with you.
- [50:28]
A
Thank you for being my friend.
- [50:28]
B
Yeah.
- [50:29]
A
For real.
- [50:30]
B
I've called you three times.
- [50:31]
A
Thank you for helping me always. This door is always open for you. I love it.
- [50:36]
B
Thank you.
- [50:36]
A
I'm super grateful for you.
- [50:37]
B
Thank you for the service that you're doing for all of your viewers. I'm one of them.
- [50:41]
A
It will. And like, you're. I read this book by this guy I don't know if you heard of. It's called Strength to Strength and I'll link to it. It's a masterpiece that he wrote. But this is, this can be a time at the stage of your career when you begin to put your feet up on the couch a little bit more and lean back a little bit more and just kind of survey the, the grass you've. You've planted. And you're not doing that. You're hitting the gas. And so it's, it's impressive to watch.
- [51:08]
B
I appreciate it. You know, I'll go where, where the. It's funny, you know, in the, in. At the beginning of the holy week, Jesus comes into Jerusalem and he says to his disciples, go get a cult. Right? And like, where. Let's go to this house and get a cult. And they're going to be like, he, he's. He's gonna ask what we're doing with the cult, right? And he says, just say this. The master has need of it. I'm the cult.
- [51:39]
A
You're a donkey. Yeah.
- [51:40]
B
Just the cult. Right. He's the donkey. The master has need of it. Yeah. Is the whole point. The master has need of you too. Yeah. Thank you for doing it.
- [51:46]
A
Well, I like being a donkey.
- [51:48]
B
Right. Oh, man.
- [51:48]
A
It's good.
- [51:49]
B
Appreciate you. Donkeys unite.
- [51:50]
A
That's right. All right, it's time for a quick word about Delete Me. Do you feel like your digital footprints, you know, your text messages, your emails, your maps in your car are starting to more like digital trails leading bad guys right back to you? Right now, scammers are using phishing attacks. That's phishing with a ph. And they try to trick you into giving them something like your information by pretending to know you. You might get an email, a text, or a phone call, and the person or the AI bot on the other end sounds like someone who's looking out for you and trying to help you out, but they're not. With all of these new technological advancements coming at us a million miles an hour, no one is really safe. So what are we supposed to do? We can start controlling what we can. We can learn how to be careful online and offline, and we can all sign up with Delete Me. I use and recommend Delete Me because they work in the background to reduce my online presence. I don't have to worry about creepy data brokers having my data and trying to sell it behind my back. Delete Me has reviewed tens of thousands of sites for me, and when they found stuff off, they've removed data from hundreds of the sites, which has saved me countless hours and a ton of stress. Stop phishing attacks, harassment, and other online threats before they even start, and take control of your digital privacy. With Delete me, go to joindeleteme.com DeLoney today for 20 off your annual plan. That comes out to less than nine bucks a month. That's joinedeleteme.com DeLoney all right, thank you so much for joining me and my friend Arthur Brooks for round two. I guarantee you, you're smarter than you were before you started this. And if you're like me, you got to go back and listen to it a couple more times. Thank you so much for being with us. Be kind to each other. Take care of your spiritual life, take care of your family, take care of your marriage, take care of your bodies, and go make the world a better place. I love you guys. Stay in school. Don't do drugs. That especially includes you, Kelly.
- [53:51]
B
Bye.