Is This Relationship Real Or Is He a Love Bomber?

Summary

Podcast Summary: The Dr. John Delony Show – "Is This Relationship Real Or Is He a Love Bomber?"

Podcast Information:

• Title: The Dr. John Delony Show
• Host/Author: Ramsey Network
• Description: The Dr. John Delony Show is a caller-driven program offering real talk on relationships and mental health challenges. Listeners are encouraged to engage by sending questions via voicemail or email.
• Episode: Is This Relationship Real Or Is He a Love Bomber?
• Release Date: July 9, 2025

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Introduction

In this compelling episode of The Dr. John Delony Show, Dr. John Delony delves into the nuanced topic of distinguishing genuine affection in relationships from manipulative behaviors known as love bombing. Through real-life caller experiences, expert insights, and heartfelt discussions, Dr. Delony provides listeners with the tools to identify unhealthy relationship patterns and foster healthier, more authentic connections.

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Understanding Love Bombing

Caller: Nicole

• Timestamp: [00:05] – [07:02]

Nicole initiates the conversation with a pressing concern: differentiating between genuine romantic interest and love bombing. She shares her personal experience of dating a man who exhibited intense affection early on, leading her to question the authenticity of his intentions.

Key Points Discussed:

• Rapid Intensification: Nicole describes a relationship that escalated quickly, with excessive hand-holding, frequent kissing, and deep emotional conversations within just six dates.
• Overwhelming Affection: The constant declarations of how perfect she was for him and how much he was falling for her felt "way too much," causing her discomfort.
• Cutting Off Communication: Upon expressing her need to slow things down, her partner abruptly ended the relationship with the same intensity as before, signaling manipulative tendencies.

Notable Quotes:

• Nicole: "It just felt like I was being overwhelmed with... everyday reassurance of, you're basically the best thing that's happened to me." [02:07]
• Dr. John: "Love bombers are using somebody to feel good about themselves... it's a quick burn rate drug." [06:15]
• Nicole: "I don't normally listen to my gut, so this was a big moment for me." [10:02]

Dr. John’s Insights:

• Definition of Love Bombing: He characterizes love bombing as a manipulative tactic where one person overwhelms another with excessive attention and affection to gain control or fulfill their own emotional needs.
• Trusting Intuition: Dr. John emphasizes the importance of listening to one’s instincts. Even if the affections are genuine, feeling uncomfortable is a valid signal to reassess the relationship.
• Affirmation of Feelings: He commends Nicole for recognizing and acting upon her discomfort, highlighting that asserting boundaries is crucial in maintaining personal well-being.

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Navigating Terminal Illness and Legacy Building

Caller: Lee

• Timestamp: [13:24] – [31:28]

Lee shares a deeply personal story about his diagnosis with terminal brain cancer and the profound impact it has had on his family. The conversation shifts from identifying unhealthy relationships to addressing the challenges of leaving a meaningful legacy.

Key Points Discussed:

• Diagnosis and Treatment: Lee recounts his accidental diagnosis of grade three astrocoma brain cancer following an ATV accident and subsequent emergency surgery.
• Family Dynamics: He expresses concerns about the emotional well-being of his three children—ages 16, 14, and 11—and his wife as they navigate this unexpected journey.
• Legacy Planning: Dr. John provides actionable advice on how to leave a lasting, positive legacy for his children, focusing on blessings, dedicated time, and modeling healthy relationships.

Notable Quotes:

• Lee: "They ended up doing an emergency surgery and removed the tumor, but it keeps growing." [15:35]
• Dr. John: "Blessing time and making sure your kids aren't carrying this... a father’s blessing is a cornerstone." [23:32]
• Dr. John: "I have brain cancer. And I am not a burden on my family." [27:40]

Dr. John’s Recommendations:

1. Blessing Time: Encourage Lee to create meaningful recordings or letters expressing his blessings and hopes for his children, fostering a sense of security and love.
2. Dedicated Time: Establish regular, quality interactions with each child to strengthen their bond and provide emotional support.
3. Modeling Love: Demonstrate affection and healthy relationships within the family to provide a positive example for his children.

Emotional Support: Dr. John commends Lee for his proactive approach and offers heartfelt support, acknowledging the immense courage it takes to face such a diagnosis and prioritize his family's emotional health.

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Addressing Violent Outbursts in Children

Caller: Kelly

• Timestamp: [33:43] – [48:44]

Kelly reaches out with concerns about her 11-year-old daughter exhibiting violent outbursts, including hitting family members. She seeks guidance on managing these behaviors while maintaining a safe and loving family environment.

Key Points Discussed:

• Behavioral Challenges: Kelly describes instances where her daughter has physically attacked family members, leading to feelings of helplessness and safety concerns.
• Therapeutic Interventions: Despite ongoing therapy, the violent behavior has escalated, prompting Dr. John to question the effectiveness of current treatments and suggest further evaluation.

Notable Quotes:

• Kelly: "She's really aggressive, and she's hit everybody in our family... I'm trying to like, de-escalate that before it gets to that point." [34:33]
• Dr. John: "This is way over my skis, man. You're gonna have to find a different therapist in your town because the one you have is useless." [46:03]
• Dr. John: "You're doing the best you can, and I'm proud of you." [48:15]

Dr. John’s Insights:

• Comprehensive Evaluation: He stresses the importance of reassessing the therapeutic approach, suggesting that Kelly's daughter may need a more tailored and intensive intervention.
• Environmental Factors: Dr. John inquires about the home environment, school life, and relationships with siblings to identify potential triggers or underlying issues.
• Parental Support: He acknowledges Kelly's efforts and offers emotional support, emphasizing that seeking help is a sign of strength, not failure.

Recommendations:

• Seek Specialized Therapy: Find a therapist with expertise in managing aggressive behaviors in children.
• Create Safe Spaces: Implement strategies to protect all family members while addressing the root causes of the outbursts.
• Foster Open Communication: Encourage dialogues that allow the child to express feelings in a controlled and supportive manner.

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Enhancing Communication About Sex and Intimacy in Marriages

Segment: Money and Marriage Question

• Timestamp: [31:28] – [48:44]

Dr. John addresses a listener’s question about helping a spouse feel safe discussing sex and intimacy. He provides practical strategies to foster open and comfortable conversations, thereby strengthening marital bonds.

Key Points Discussed:

• Understanding History: Explore each partner’s background and past experiences related to sex to identify potential barriers.
• Using Tools: Introduce tools like intimacy decks and envelope systems to facilitate structured and less intimidating conversations.
• Self-Reflection: Encourage individuals to examine their own behaviors and attitudes that may hinder open discussions about intimacy.

Notable Quotes:

• Dr. John: "Have some sort of external question card game... it just frees you." [38:40]
• Dr. John: "If you can come up with a way that you can talk about it, laugh about it, explore it, be curious about it, it makes for one adventurous, playful, fun, safe marriage." [48:44]

Dr. John’s Strategies:

1. Intimacy Decks: Utilize question-based tools to initiate conversations about sex and intimacy in a fun and non-threatening manner.
2. Erotic Envelope System: Implement a structured approach where each partner writes down desires and questions, promoting transparent and respectful dialogue.
3. Positive Environment: Create a safe space for discussions by avoiding shame, mockery, and pressure, thereby encouraging openness and vulnerability.

Final Thoughts: Dr. John emphasizes the importance of leading with laughter, curiosity, and mutual respect to transform conversations about sex into opportunities for deeper connection and understanding within the marriage.

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Conclusion

This episode of The Dr. John Delony Show masterfully navigates complex issues surrounding relationships, mental health, and family dynamics. From identifying manipulative behaviors like love bombing to supporting loved ones through terminal illness and managing challenging child behaviors, Dr. Delony offers compassionate and actionable advice. Additionally, he addresses the delicate topic of intimacy in marriages, providing listeners with practical tools to enhance communication and strengthen their relationships. Through real-life stories and expert insights, this episode serves as a valuable resource for anyone seeking to build healthier, more authentic connections in their personal lives.

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Key Takeaways:

• Recognize Love Bombing: Be aware of excessive affection used manipulatively and trust your instincts in relationships.
• Legacy Planning: Individuals facing terminal illness should focus on meaningful interactions and emotional support for their families.
• Managing Aggressive Behavior in Children: Seek specialized therapeutic interventions and create supportive home environments.
• Enhancing Marital Intimacy: Utilize structured tools and foster open, respectful communication to improve discussions about sex and intimacy.

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If you have questions or need support on topics covered in this episode, you can reach out by leaving a voicemail at 844-693-3291 or emailing [e-mail].

Transcript

[Nicole]

How can you determine the difference between somebody love bombing you and somebody that genuinely likes who you are and wants to be with you?

[Dr. John]

Oh, dude, I've got some really firm opinions on this. Did you break up with him or did you just say, hey, let's, let's slow it down a little bit? I guess. Here's how I classify love bombs is. Yo, yo, what's up? This is John with a Dr. John Deloitte baloney show. So grateful you're here. I've got Andrew on the. On the Internet. Got Ben Hill on the knobs. Kelly 2.0. Just keeping this thing going. If you don't know Kelly 2.0, her give a crap runs at 0.0. Have you ever been mad before? Oh, you'll find out right now. Yeah, I think Kelly 1.0, she frowns and gets angry. I feel like you smile. I'm still pretty new, so I'm sure it'll wear off eventually. Okay, so you're just placating me on. On your drive home. I. I imagine there's like, like fingerprints in the steering wheel because you're so angry. Me and Kelly, she got me a voodoo doll, so we have like, the whole sisterhood.

[Kelly]

You're.

[Dr. John]

Yeah. Kelly just says, I'm angry at you. It's kind of all the time, but I can see you just stabbing the night the doll on the way home for sure. All right, well, that makes me feel not great. All right, let's go to Springfield and talk to Nicole. What's up, Nicole?

[Nicole]

Hi. How's it going, Dr. John?

[Dr. John]

Doing all right, lady? What are you doing?

[Nicole]

Oh, nothing. Living the dream over here.

[Dr. John]

Oh, gosh. Anytime somebody says living the dream, that means things aren't. Aren't great. What's up?

[Nicole]

No, they are. Everything is totally great. But my question for you is, how can you determine the difference between somebody love bombing you and somebody that genuinely likes who you are and wants to be with you?

[Dr. John]

Oh, dude, I've got some really firm opinions on this, but I want to hear about your experiences. Tell me about them.

[Nicole]

Okay, so I was dating this guy for a little over a month and a half, and he lived an hour and 45 minutes away from me. So we just kind of saw each other on the weekends. The biggest thing is we had like six dates total. Nothing romantic, intimate happened until kind of towards the very end. But it just felt like I was being overwhelmed with. When we were in public, he would hold my hand, kiss me a lot, A lot of affection. And then we kind of just got really deep really fast in getting to know each other. Of course, I played my part. I felt comfortable enough to tell him things that I honestly didn't tell people that I'd been with for months or even years. But then it got to a point where it was kind of like everyday reassurance of, you're basically the best thing that's happened to me. You fill my cup up, my cup is overflowing. It's just. It was. It felt just like, way too much. And then by Date four, he told me that he thinks he's falling for me. Um, would like to kind of move steps forward and be in a relationship, be together and meet my family. And it just. It all felt very, very fast.

[Dr. John]

Yeah. Okay. So are you still with this dude?

[Nicole]

No.

[Dr. John]

Okay, so tell me about now.

[Nicole]

I have the opinion that it's like, well, hold on. Is everybody doing this?

[Dr. John]

I could tell you. I. Well, you can answer this with one. With one answer. You can answer my question with one answer, and it will let me know which direction to take. What happened when it fell off a cliff?

[Nicole]

I had a FaceTime conversation with him and told, like, what specifically happened?

[Dr. John]

Yeah, I want to know about. Either you put a stop to it, or he got what he wanted. And I'm not even talking about sexually. I'm just talking about, like, he. He felt fulfilled and got what he needed from you, either emotionally, physically, or both. And then it was like, bye, Felicia. Or you said, like, whoa, enough. And then he just. With the same intensity that he loved you with, he cut you off.

[Nicole]

So I actually ended it.

[Dr. John]

Okay.

[Nicole]

And to me, it was just too many days in a row of the same. There were not, like, extravagant gifts or anything, but him just telling me how perfect I am. Not perfect in a sense, but I'm perfect for him. And he's seeing a different side of himself that he's never seen before. And he's telling his family, and his family's confused because they've never seen this side of him. And it just. It just felt like a lot of pressure on me to keep that up. But also, I don't know if you're just like, a robot and fake, because I didn't see a bad day from him. He was just always overjoyed.

[Dr. John]

Well, y'.

[Kelly]

All.

[Dr. John]

Y' all weren't by each other. This is all an imagination. He's right. He's imagining this, right? How did he respond to you? Break. Did you. Did you break up with him? Or did you just say, hey, let's. Let's slow it down? A little bit.

[Nicole]

Well, I tried to. Let's slow it down. But as we kept. It was like a two hour conversation. As we kept talking, I was just like, yeah, no, this is too much. We just don't need to go any further.

[Dr. John]

So does he still reach out to you and tell you that you're the one beneath his wings? Nope.

[Nicole]

No, he's cut me off. Like he, he said once, once I say that, it's over. He's like, my cutoff game is strong and you won't hear from me.

[Dr. John]

Oh, gosh.

[Nicole]

Like, that's okay.

[Dr. John]

Thank you. Appreciate that.

[Nicole]

Yeah.

[Dr. John]

So I, I guess here's how I classify love bombs is that somebody is using somebody to feel good about themselves. And whether that's sexually, whether that's emotionally, whether that's buying gifts, whether that's like what you were mentioning, like, I just need you to know you're the most perfect person. It's somebody trying to get somebody externally to make them feel better internally. And it gets out of control and it's just like a drug. But it's a, like a quick burn rate drug. So they say, like, man, I like, they hold your hand and it feels good. And it's like, I gotta put my head on your shoulder. And you're like, we just met. And then at the end of the night, they're giving you a kiss and like, oh my gosh. And then like five minutes when you get in your car, they text you. Like, that was the most fun I've had in a long time. Already texted my friends about it. And the next date, it's just, it's just a, it's just they're snorting you off a counter. Right. And they need more and more and more and more. You get what I'm saying? Yeah. And good for you for within date five or six, being like, whoa, you're an addict. You don't see me. You're using me to feel. Try to feel better about yourself.

[Nicole]

And so that's definitely how it felt.

[Dr. John]

Yes. So here's what I would tell you. Trust your intuition. Now, let's say I'm 100% wrong. And you just met a guy who's just a regular old dude and he fell for you hard. Okay? You feeling uncomfortable is still right. Because your feelings are your feelings, especially when it comes to a romantic interest. So even if he's the best guy of all time, he just felt he fell for you hard. That doesn't mean you have to reciprocate that.

[Nicole]

Yeah.

[Dr. John]

So either way, what you Felt in that moment. Go with it. Yeah. And I love that you were like, hey, because let's be honest, you said you did your part too. You liked hanging out with him, right?

[Nicole]

Absolutely. Absolutely.

[Dr. John]

Yeah.

[Nicole]

I played my part. I felt comfortable around him. I was telling him things. And yeah. Then it just got overwhelming and too much for me.

[Dr. John]

And so the fact that you said, hey, we got to d, like take 30% off. Let's dial it down a little bit. In that conversation. He couldn't hear it, wouldn't hear it. Wouldn't be like, hey, I'm not telling you these things because I. You want to hear them. I'm telling you these things because I want to say them. And when you said, hey, you saying this, all this all the time is. Is a lot for me to carry right now. Six dates into meeting you, he said, my cutoff game is strong. You, like, you're. That just, you totally affirmed your feelings that what he was doing was for him, not for you. Does that make sense?

[Nicole]

Yeah, yeah. No, it absolutely.

[Dr. John]

Go with your gut. And here's the deal. If your gut is repeatedly wrong, ask one of your friends to level with you.

[Nicole]

Yeah.

[Dr. John]

Okay. One of the most important conversations of my life was a couple years into dating the person who's now my wife. We got into it and I asked a buddy like, can you believe she said that? And he was like, yes, you're the worst. And he laid it out for me and I'm so glad he did because I didn't, I didn't, I didn't know that side of me. I, I didn't experience that side of me. Like he did. Like, like my wife, like she was my girlfriend at the time. Like she was experiencing it. And that was really important feedback.

[Nicole]

Yeah.

[Dr. John]

And so I walked around feeling self righteous for a minute, but I was way wrong. And so having a friend is always great, but man, you are, are right on right now. And I think, I think your signal is hey. When I sit down and say, hey, the way you are trying to love me or tell me that you have feelings for me. If I tell you that doesn't, it's not feeling as good or as safe as you think it does if you don't immediately go, oh, dude, okay, sorry, sorry, sorry. I'll dial it back. And instead says, no, no, no, no. This is what, how this is going to go, dude, you're right on. That means you're being used as a Xanax for somebody else. Yeah. Or cocaine for somebody else. One of those two. An upper or downer. Either way. Right. But good for you for figuring that out. Date six.

[Nicole]

Thank you. I don't normally listen to my gut, so this was a. A big moment for me. And do you have some.

[Dr. John]

Do you have some knuckleheads in your past?

[Nicole]

Absolutely.

[Dr. John]

Well, good.

[Nicole]

Absolutely.

[Dr. John]

This is. This is. This is Nicole 2.0. This is awesome. Good for you. And can we be honest about one thing before we hang up?

[Nicole]

Yeah.

[Dr. John]

It's kind of a bummer, huh? Because those were good conversations, weren't they?

[Nicole]

They were. I did feel safe. I. For. For a little bit. It felt nice to get things off my chest to somebody other than, you know, the few people in my life that know what I've been through, so.

[Dr. John]

So take. But make sure you grieve the entirety of this. Both the sky's crazy and the man in my next relationship, I'm going to be able to talk to somebody with that I like. I like having deep conversations where somebody can hold space for my feelings and stuff.

[Nicole]

Yeah.

[Dr. John]

It's a good thing you took away from this thing also, right?

[Nicole]

Absolutely. No, there were some great things I took away from it.

[Dr. John]

Yeah.

[Nicole]

Just wanted to figure out how to decipher between. Or if I was crazy for cutting it off.

[Dr. John]

Nope, you are. I mean, as far as I'm concerned. I think you're right on, sister. Good for you. And again, let's pretend he was still wonderful and great and the best of all time. If that's not how you feel safe and you feel loved, you're still right to cut it off. You're. You're right to want to be with who you want to be with. So good for you either way. But, yes, I share your sentiment that. Whoa, whoa. We come back, a terminally ill man asks how he can leave a legacy for his family. It's a good one. The show is sponsored by Better Help Dudes. The world feels like it's falling apart, and while it's all crashing down, we're all under huge pressure to perform and look like we're keeping it all together. And we all know that getting support is good, but we're not allowed to ask for it. Women are often told that they have to be everything to everyone all the time, and somehow they just have to intuitively know how to do it all. And men are often told they are the reason for every bad thing in the world and that asking for help means they are weak or. Less than 76% of people globally agree that mental health care can help resolve personal problems. Yet 6 out of 10 people still believe society discourages asking for help. Listen, real strength comes from opening up about what you're carrying and then you doing something about it so you can be your best for yourself and for everyone else in your life. If you're feeling the weight of the world, talk to someone. Anyone. A friend, a loved one, or yes, a therapist. I talk with a therapist regularly, and you might consider talking to one too. If you're thinking about trying therapy, contact my friends at Better Help. BetterHelp is 100% online therapy, so it's affordable and convenient for your schedule to get started. Just fill out a short online survey to get matched with a licensed therapist. And if it's not the right fit, you can switch therapists at any time, easily and for no extra cost. Talk it out with better help. Visit betterhelp.com DeLoney to get 10% off your first month. That's better help. HP.com DeLoney all right, let's go up north to Canada and talk to Lee. What's up, Lee?

[Lee]

Hey, how are you, Dr. John?

[Dr. John]

I'm all right, brother. How about you, man? You know what?

[Lee]

I am good. Yeah, I just. Yeah, I just have a question here. I was diagnosed with terminal brain cancer about 10 months ago.

[Dr. John]

Hold on, slow the roll.

[Kelly]

Slow the roll, huh?

[Dr. John]

How are you doing? I'm doing good, man. So I got brain cancer. Jeez, man.

[Lee]

Yeah, it's been. It's been quite the year, I imagine.

[Kelly]

Yeah.

[Dr. John]

What. What's your diagnosis?

[Kelly]

Yeah.

[Lee]

So I have grade three astrocoma brain cancer, which is like a rare brain cancer that they discovered by mistake. This last summer, kind of in the middle of summer, I had an accident in an atv and they. My head put the windshield out of the atv, so they thought they better scan my head to make sure I'm okay. And when they did that, all of a sudden they had all kinds of questions about something growing in my head. And so.

[Dr. John]

I'm sorry, dude.

[Lee]

From there, they didn't MRI and it was. Yeah, it's kind of been a. Interesting year from there, so.

[Kelly]

Yeah.

[Dr. John]

Oh, it's been the worst year ever, man.

[Kelly]

Jeez.

[Lee]

You know, I feel like we've been through a lot in the last five years, and so this was just something else where it was like, okay, well, now we're. God's helping us deal with this. So. So it's been.

[Kelly]

I don't know, man, but I. I.

[Dr. John]

Don'T mind God asking me to deal with stuff. I would prefer that. Not that one, right? Geez.

[Lee]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. It wasn't something we saw coming for sure. So it was.

[Dr. John]

All right. So. So take me here. Okay. You got kids?

[Kelly]

Yes.

[Lee]

Yeah, I have three kids. So I have a boy and two girls. My son is 16, my daughter's 14, and my youngest daughter is 11. So.

[Kelly]

Yeah.

[Dr. John]

How long you been married?

[Lee]

So, yeah. And it'll be 19 years this September.

[Dr. John]

So.

[Kelly]

Yeah.

[Dr. John]

And then what. What kind of timetable they give you?

[Lee]

5 to 7 years is what they've given me.

[Kelly]

So.

[Lee]

So, yeah, they. They ended up doing an emergency surgery November 5th and removed. They were able to get the tumor, but the trouble is, is this brain cancer just keeps growing, so it's.

[Dr. John]

And it just pops up.

[Lee]

Getting the tumor out.

[Dr. John]

Yeah, it depends on where the next one pops up, right? Yeah. God, it's like.

[Lee]

Yeah, exactly. And so, yeah, I mean, they. They said kind of best case scenario medically is five to seven years. So we.

[Kelly]

Yeah.

[Dr. John]

Yeah.

[Lee]

Thankfully, we had. Thankfully we had life insurance and everything in place already, so. I'm grateful for that.

[Dr. John]

But.

[Lee]

But yeah, it's just been a lot, though, I guess more so on the side of the family. Has been. Has been a lot. I feel like, honestly, I almost had the easy part of this, and it's tougher for my family, I think, to look at how this looks in that five to seven years. And. Yeah, so that's.

[Dr. John]

So take. Take me to. Your wife's asleep there. Take me to. Your wife's asleep and your kids are in bed and you're on the couch and the TV is off and you're sitting there in the dark because, dude, I. I admire you. I. I lost a close friend to this. Okay.

[Lee]

Okay.

[Dr. John]

And I've been. I. I peripherally been down the road, and one of my closest bro. He's a brother, one of my closest friends on planet Earth lost his wife to this. And. Yeah, it's. It's. Most people that I know, especially those who are diagnosed with terminal cancer, get stuck in the position of having to make sure everybody around them is okay. But I'll cherish some private conversations I had with her that, like. Yeah. If she lets herself truly absorb it, it's. It's a nightmare. Scary.

[Kelly]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Dr. John]

I take me to the dark.

[Lee]

I feel like. Yeah.

[Dr. John]

Yeah.

[Lee]

I feel like, for. For me, where my. Like, I'm a. I'm a Christian, so it's like I. I am not. I actually don't have fear of death at all, so that's not like I can say. My wife and I both, as we've talked this through, it's like, neither of us are mad at God at all, honestly. It's like we live in a fallen world, and I'm not shocked at why I can't get cancer just like anybody else. So there's nothing, Nothing there that is. That I hold against God. But I think the bigger thing that I look at, that I struggle with, is just looking at my kids. As you know, we have a few family friends that have lost husbands while the kids are still younger. And it's just watching their families, what they went through in that. I guess that's where my struggle is. Is just going, like, how do I. How do I set them up for success even when I might not be here? Right. So. And even my wife. And it's like, I. Yeah, like, we've. And we've been completely open with the kids on everything. Like, we haven't hidden anything from them because they're too smart to ignore that something is going on. But. And they've each been processing in different ways.

[Kelly]

Like, it's.

[Lee]

Yeah, we're definitely watching them process in different ways. And yet I think that.

[Kelly]

They are.

[Lee]

All, I would say, in a good position in terms of just where they're. Yeah, I think they're coping as well as they can, I guess I could say. But, yeah, it's so for me that I guess that's more. Where my heart has been is just like, wanting to know, like, how can I best finish my time on earth in a way that blesses them? And it's like, we. We run a ministry here, and it's been. You know, my board and team have been amazing backing us, but part of this too, I think, is also looking. Going like, how long do I stay in that? You know? And, yeah, how long do I stay in that? And when do you. When does the point come where it's like, okay, it's. It's time for me to take a step back from that and just focus on family. So. So, yeah, that's kind of where things are at, man.

[Dr. John]

You're. You're a special guy, dude. For what it's worth, I'm mad at God on your behalf because you're. You're one of the good guys, and guys like you aren't supposed to get brain cancer and have to leave their kids, you know, before they leave the house. Right.

[Lee]

And. Right.

[Dr. John]

So.

[Lee]

Right.

[Dr. John]

You don't have to. I told a buddy recently who just lost his. Another close friend of mine just lost his wife. I said, he's one of the most kindest guys in the world. And I said, well, I'm gonna say a buck, a bunch of expletives in my prayers on your behalf. Then he started laughing. He goes, well, you get to do that. You can take that up with, with God yourself. But on behalf, I mean, man, you're a special man, dude. I guess the, the three things that are popping in my head right now is this one is, okay, I'm going to reverse engineer this for you. Okay. Anytime I sit down with somebody who has a, who has a timeline and you got a five to seven year. Okay. So you and I both know that could be two and a half years or that could be eight, right?

[Kelly]

Yeah.

[Dr. John]

Who knows?

[Kelly]

Yep.

[Dr. John]

And with your particular cancer, it's, it's, it's a whack. A mole cancer. The next time it pops up could be at where a part of your brain that runs your heart and lungs and that's it. Right. Or yeah, the next place it pops up is somewhere rather benign and you got another year to go. You know, you get them. So you, you get just the God, dude, the cosmic sick joke. This particular cancer is, I think.

[Lee]

Yeah.

[Dr. John]

So I'm going to reverse engineer it for you and then tell you the three words that are in my head. Okay. What? Most people, most people that I sit down with have the intellectual understanding, but the, the emotional understanding, they, they lack an emotional understanding that when somebody says five, let's say it's five years, at year four, things are pretty rough, and then things fall fast.

[Kelly]

Yeah.

[Dr. John]

Meaning the last three months of year five are real tough.

[Kelly]

Yeah.

[Dr. John]

Right.

[Kelly]

Yep.

[Dr. John]

And so there's, I think there's this, this understanding that, oh, I'll cross this finish line here, and I want to move up your finish line a little bit. Okay.

[Lee]

Okay.

[Dr. John]

And so the words in my head.

[Lee]

Are.

[Dr. John]

Blessing time and making sure your kids aren't carrying this, slash, they get to carry part of this. Okay. So I'll start with the blessing part. Whether you can do a video journal or that just becomes a thing that you leave them or. Which I think in this modern era would be kind of rad, or a letter of some sort, making sure that they have documentation of you giving them your blessing. And there's something about a father's blessing for both their daughters and their sons that is. It's a puzzle piece into a soul. It's a puzzle piece into a heart. And I'm firmly convinced that all the single parent homes we have all over the world and the absentee fathers, I think we're walking around with a wounded Culture because there's so many folks who don't have their dad's blessing. And.

[Lee]

Right.

[Dr. John]

Many dads, like, don't say, hey, I want you to know you have my blessing on the life you're living. But they may change the oil. They may, like, do a side hug. It's not enough. There's got to be, like, a passing of. You have my blessing. I say, here's what I see in you.

[Lee]

Right.

[Dr. John]

Right. And so if you can. If you could do a video of that or recording of that and you do a video of, like, I don't know, once a month or once a year, there's going to be some sort of catalog that your kids can go back to, a cornerstone they can touch as they get older. Right. And maybe you can do a funny one and, I don't know, run down the 15 questions. You make a video for their future spouse one day and.

[Lee]

Right, right.

[Dr. John]

I mean, just some. You sound like a guy that's got, like, I do just a. A left of center, like, a twisted sense of humor about all this. And so, man, if you did that, that'd be hilarious, man. That could be fun.

[Kelly]

Yeah.

[Dr. John]

The second one is time, and that is. I would set up regularly scheduled intervals with each of them.

[Lee]

Okay.

[Dr. John]

Whether that's a breakfast, whether that's a lunch, whether that's a week, a monthly, or whatever. I want them to feel like I got laser beam time with dad. It may not be as much as I wanted, but when I got it, it was intense. It was just us.

[Lee]

Right.

[Kelly]

Okay.

[Dr. John]

And ask them regularly, what are you most scared of right now? What are you most happy about right now? And you go first. Here's what I'm most scared about. Here's what I'm most happy about. Okay. And they're going to get a ringside seat, a model for how to grieve well and how to live well, and a lost art in our culture, how to die well.

[Kelly]

Yeah. Yep.

[Dr. John]

We don't have that. And then the last one is, dude, I want them to see you love your wife to the freaking moon and back.

[Kelly]

Yeah.

[Dr. John]

Yep.

[Kelly]

Yeah.

[Dr. John]

How's she doing with all this?

[Lee]

It's. It's day to day. Like, there's, like, we weren't sure I'd wake up the same person after brain surgery because of where the tumor was and everything.

[Kelly]

So.

[Lee]

I mean, my memory is not what it used to be, but other than that, I would say I'm generally the same. Just have to sleep more. But, yeah, like, there's been a lot of just scary things through this, I guess for her, where it was just like, she wasn't sure I'd wake up the same, you know, kind of had to talk that through to our kids, too. Just on, like, we don't know. There's a lot of risk in this, you know, going through. Like, I went through six weeks of chemo and radiation together, and then I'm still in radiator chemo for the rest of the year here. But that has an effect as well on me, so, like, just kind of learning some of those. Some of those things. But she. I think she's.

[Dr. John]

Yeah.

[Lee]

Like, it's honestly scary at times. Like, we've had. We had a.

[Kelly]

Yeah.

[Lee]

Like, I think, like most couples, we always talked about retirement as being a time that we could kind of pick what we got to do together. And all of a sudden, that's changed, and it's. It's like, okay, how do we. How do we start doing some of that now?

[Kelly]

And I love that.

[Dr. John]

And then going back.

[Lee]

Yeah.

[Dr. John]

I realized. I told you there was three things, and I gave you four. I need you to say something out loud for me. Okay.

[Kelly]

All right.

[Dr. John]

Say these words for me. You don't have to believe them. I just want you to have said them. Okay. I have brain cancer.

[Lee]

I have brain cancer.

[Dr. John]

And I am not a burden on my family.

[Lee]

And I am not a burden on my family.

[Dr. John]

Okay. You're a blessing to your family. It sounds like you've modeled what living well looks like. You're modeling in an amazing way what dying well is going to look like. You got life insurance, right? This isn't all just hocus pocus. You've done the. Your wife's gonna have a. Isn't gonna have to go to work on Monday after your funeral. Right?

[Lee]

Right. Right.

[Kelly]

Yep.

[Dr. John]

So you get to be sad. You all get to be sad. And here's the fourth thing that I mentioned earlier. You. I want you to model for your kids. Hey, this chemo sucks. This hurts. I'm nervous. I'm scared. And I want you to not let them feel like they've got to keep you propped up. And right when they go into caretaker mode, let them, because it's going to be a great gift for them and your wife.

[Kelly]

Okay?

[Lee]

Okay.

[Dr. John]

It's a both and.

[Lee]

All right.

[Dr. John]

There will come days when you can't get out of bed, and they say, dad, you need anything? And I want you to be able to say, you know what I'd love to do? Borrow your nervous system for about 30 minutes. Will you cuddle up on the couch next to me. We can watch the office reruns or something. It'll give them a job.

[Kelly]

Yeah.

[Dr. John]

And more importantly, that job is like them themselves, right? Not like a. Like, can you give me a glass of water? Sure. Anybody can get you a glass of water. But when your daughter walks in and you say, dude, 30 minutes. I need 30 minutes of who? Like Susan hugs right now. That's what make me feel better than any of my medicine. And give her an opportunity to not carry all of it, but carry a little bit of it. Okay?

[Lee]

Okay.

[Kelly]

Sure.

[Dr. John]

And it takes away a teeny, tiny little bit of the powerlessness that all your kids feel right now.

[Lee]

Right? Right.

[Dr. John]

Or if you give them a job, you all need to write me a letter once a month. Get on it, kids. Then what you're going to do is you're going to give them an opportunity to process this thing in real time with you. And 10 years from now, 15 years from now, that would be such a blessing. Here's what we don't want them to do. I don't want them to feel crazy for feeling as crazy as they're going to feel.

[Lee]

Right.

[Dr. John]

I want mom to demonstrate. This is what I'm feeling. Crazy. I want you to demonstrate. I'm feeling crazy. I'm feeling sad. Mom's feel. And I want you to give words and names to their feelings so that they don't feel insane. And, yeah. Let them do stuff for you.

[Lee]

Okay?

[Kelly]

Yeah.

[Dr. John]

Can I just say this? Dad to dad. I'm sorry, man.

[Lee]

Thank you.

[Dr. John]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Lee]

We.

[Dr. John]

What a surreal year.

[Lee]

See this one coming.

[Kelly]

Yeah. Yep.

[Dr. John]

And I hate to say it this way, but only people who are sitting in your seat understand. What I'm about to say is not me being sarcastic or anything. Usually people who are not in your seat will go, oh, my gosh, I can't believe you just said that. But I'm only saying this because I've sat with too many people in your situation. Thank God for a car wreck, huh?

[Kelly]

Yeah. Oh, 100%.

[Dr. John]

Isn't that wild? Thank God for the ATV. ATV rack. Thank God for the MRI.

[Lee]

Yeah, exactly. Exactly.

[Dr. John]

These last four years are going to have a lot more laser focus on them, huh?

[Lee]

Absolutely. Yeah, absolutely.

[Dr. John]

All right, brother. Hey, listen, you call me anytime over the next. Hopefully you got a decade left. And, man, if we could keep punting this thing a little bit further down the road, who knows what AI is going to kick up and maybe they'll solve some of this nonsense. But, yeah, you call me Anytime your wife call me anytime. Your kids call me anytime. And I'll walk with you any way I can. Okay, brother.

[Lee]

Sounds good. Thank you so much.

[Dr. John]

All right. Blessings. Good man. All right. Golly. There are some people you talk to that just are special. And they shine a light for all of us on the art of living well, the art of loving well. And in this man's case, the art of dying well. And man, I hope when my time comes, I have that kind of spirit. We come back, a man asks how to help stop this child's violent outburst. I love Cozy Earth. Just Hearing the term 9 to 5 job is a drag. It makes you think of your boss with coffee breath or just staring at a zoom call all day co workers with no boundaries. And if you're not working from home, that commute. That's why Cozy Earth wants to make your 5 to 9 the time when you get home to slowly unwind the most comfortable part of your day. And Cozy Earth is a big part of how my wife and I make our home a warm heart, comfortable place to be. My wife gets in her Cozy Earth pajamas as quickly as possible. And I love my afterwork Cozy Earth T shirts and pants because they're soft and breathable while I'm dominating my kids in our front yard wrestling matches. And at night, I love my temperature regulating Cozy Earth sheets. They naturally wick away heat and moisture from my body and help me sleep several degrees cooler. Cozy Earth is so confident that they offer a 100 night sleep trial. Try them during the hottest nights of the year and if you don't absolutely love them, you can return them hassle hassle free. And of course, Cozy earth offers a 10 year warranty on all of their bedding products for a decade of great sleep. Don't miss your chance to score Cozy Earth's biggest discount of the year. During their Cozy days sale from July 11th to July 13th, head to cozyearth.com and use code DeLoney. Get this 45 off their temperature regulating sheets, the apparel and more. Don't forget this deal ends on July 13th. Sleep cooler, lounge lighter and stay cozy with Cozy Earth. All right, let's go to Minnesota and talk to John. Hey John, what's up?

[Kelly]

Hi John, how are you doing?

[Dr. John]

All right, brother, how about you?

[Kelly]

I'm pretty good. Grateful to be talking to you.

[Dr. John]

You too, man. What's going on?

[Kelly]

I have an 11 year old daughter and she has these violent episodes. It can last for hours. And she's growing up, she's getting bigger and I don't know how to keep my family safe at this point, including her. And I don't know what to do next. I don't know. I don't know where to. When it's too much.

[Dr. John]

Give me a picture of what the. What a regular violent outburst looks like.

[Kelly]

Yeah. So pretty much anything or nothing can set something like this off.

[Dr. John]

Okay.

[Kelly]

And like, last night, we were just hanging out, and I was getting some tea for her, and one of my little boys said something that upset her, and she struck me in the back of the head a few times as I was sitting at the kitchen table. And at this point, I'm the only one who's big enough to kind of keep everybody safe. But I also have a big problem with restraining her, touching her in any kind of physical way in these situations.

[Dr. John]

How come?

[Kelly]

I mean, she's my little girl, and I never wanted. Like, I've never hurt her, never spanked her, never laid a hand on her, but she. She's really aggressive, and she's. She's hit everybody in our family, punched my wife in the face. She's tried to punch me. And I. I want to keep her safe. I want to keep everybody safe, but it. It's too much for us now.

[Dr. John]

Yeah.

[Kelly]

And I. I don't know where to go from here.

[Dr. John]

So there's. I mean, this is tough for me in this situation because I'm not with her. And you and I would need to do, like, a pretty long history, a timeline, an escalation timeline, all that, to learn more about this. But I'm going to throw a few things out there. Okay. Just to give you some general direction. All right.

[Kelly]

Yeah.

[Dr. John]

I. First, again, I've talked about this in recent shows. I always want to start from a place. And I may not stay here very long, but I always want to start from a place of what if my kids body. Whether they're anxious, whether they're having outbursts, whether they're highly charged and emotional, whether they're depressed or they have depression symptoms or what if their body is working perfectly? What is their body trying to protect them from? That's always where I want to start. Okay.

[Kelly]

Yeah.

[Dr. John]

Number two, you can't hit. There's a line that gets crossed and often. Oh, I mean, who. Who knows the diagnostic stuff here. Right. So that she needs to get an evaluation. We'll talk through that in a second. But I like the second tier where Dr. My colleague, Dr. Becky Kennedy starts, which is often emotional outbursts are really a lack of skills. It's. No kid wants to be hitting their family members. But these emotions get so hypercharged, and there's not a skill set to deal with them, and they just explode out. And so there's something about sitting with kids and teaching them skills. But the next part of that is. And again, anytime I ask parents this, I always want to preface it. This is hard on the phone. It's different in person. But my bigger question would be, tell me about the environment of your home. Which. Which is she? Do you. Is your marriage good? Do y' all squash your feelings in your house? Do you let kids just run amok? I mean, this sounds like this has been going on and on, and you don't want to. You don't want to cut her off or take her on. And now she. You just got a kid who feels like she's out of control, and really the greatest thing she could get was some really firm boundaries from dad, from Mom. But tell me about the environment in the home.

[Kelly]

It's the thing. Is it. It's good. Okay.

[Lee]

We have.

[Kelly]

We have a really special thing going. She's got two little brothers who are. Yeah, they're little brothers, and they're annoying sometimes, but they're good boys. My. My marriage with my wife is good. She's a very special woman. My daughter's a very special girl outside the home. She's. She's good. She's well liked. She's well loved. This stuff doesn't happen in other contexts. And there have been a couple times where I've really been able to kind of, like, walk with her through one of these episodes, like, two times out of a thousand where we can talk about, like, what. Like, where do you feel it? And, like, just breathe and really. Really take that long breath. And I've been able to get through it with her sometimes. Couple times, but usually there's. There's no getting through there. Like, I guess anything's possible, but I'm 99.9% certain she's never suffered any kind of abuse. Okay, well, let's.

[Dr. John]

Let's don't go even. Even that serious. I mean, that's definitely a question I want to ask. Is she safe in school? She getting bullied a lot in school or whatever? How big is the gap between her and her brothers?

[Kelly]

Her brothers are 8 and 6.

[Dr. John]

How old is she?

[Kelly]

She's 11.

[Dr. John]

Okay. So that really wouldn't fit with where I was going. Where I was. Where I was going with is if she was 5 or she was 6 and she had all of you guys, you and your wife to herself. And then these two knuckleheaded boys came along. Is she still wrestling with her place in the house?

[Kelly]

I think there's, there's probably some of that.

[Dr. John]

Okay.

[Kelly]

But you know, it's not easy being a kid. It's not being easy being the oldest. But we, we really try to make each one of them feel special and loved.

[Dr. John]

But, but one of the ways, one of the most ways you can give an older kid that sense of purpose and that sense of feeling loved is giving them a job. One of the most important things I learned in grad school was telling the oldest kid, hey, this is your brother. Yeah. And when this is your brother, you have responsibilities because your brother needs you. And there's. Kids are so desperate for autonomy and for a purpose, for a job that getting that is so powerful. And of course they get annoyed with it and they get resentful and blah, blah, blah. But they're kids, right? I guess the, the, the, the, the biggest question mark over my head is this is very context specific. Yeah. Because she's not out of control at school, she's not out of control at church, she's not in control on sports team. She just comes home and kind of loses it. Yeah. Okay. Have you taken her to see a, the psychologist?

[Kelly]

We're, we're waiting on like a psych evil. She's been in therapy before for a couple of years, but we were, we were on like a six month waiting list to get an intake for like a real assessment.

[Dr. John]

Okay. I, what does her therapist say? I don't like that. She's been in therapy for two years and this thing is escalating and escalating and escalating and there's not a joint conversation happening. Like, what's the therapist saying?

[Kelly]

She doesn't have a lot to say. She's, we've sat down with her several times and asked like, where, where's, like what's going on? And her, her response is kind of like some kids are like this, you know, some kids have a lot of anxiety. She's, she's worked on skills. She's described what they're working on in terms of like self soothing and stuff.

[Dr. John]

Hold on, hold on, hold on.

[Kelly]

Yeah.

[Dr. John]

How old is this girl?

[Kelly]

11.

[Dr. John]

Has she brought you and your wife in to work on these skills together and run scenarios together?

[Kelly]

Not, not all of us together, no.

[Dr. John]

Okay. There's something about the matrix there, there's some kind of alchemy there that makes her body feel unsafe and out of control. And I guess what I Would tell you is after two years of just sitting here and talking about it, if that's not improving, in fact, the trend line is the other way, then I want to advocate on my daughter's behalf in a really direct way. Meaning it's not good enough, man. That just makes my skin crawl that some kids are just like this, dude. What a defeated, hopeless sense, Right? Yeah. Kids are kids, and they are put into multiple different environments and context where they've got multiple different demands and all. Like you said, it's hard, man. It's hard being a kid, especially a kid that feels like I don't have the skills to enter into this situation. But also, no kid wants to hit their dad a whole bunch of times. You know what I mean?

[Kelly]

Yeah.

[Dr. John]

But you need to hear from me. You have not only every right. It's a gift to her to protect her from getting that far out of control. Yeah.

[Kelly]

And I. I try to like, de. Escalate that before it gets to that point, but it. It's just like the switch. And.

[Dr. John]

What happens after she hit you a few times? What did you do?

[Kelly]

I said, hey, you need to take a break. Like, that's not okay. But she. She won't. She won't take a break at that point. Like, she won't leave the situation, do something different.

[Dr. John]

I know, but she's 11. She needs an adult sometimes to pick her up and take her out of the situation.

[Kelly]

Yeah. And I guess that's like what I've been doing. I take her to her room and sit with her or have to restrain her. And like, she'll continue to try to physically attack me for hours. And I. I don't know what to do with that part of it.

[Dr. John]

Yeah. This is way over my skis, man. You're gonna. You're gonna have to find a different therapist in your town because the one you have is useless. Yeah. I get that powerlessness feeling that you have. I can't solve this one over the phone.

[Kelly]

Okay.

[Dr. John]

I'm wondering if she's got some. Some severe psychiatric challenges. Yeah. Because I do know it's not uncommon for kids to. To hit somebody, to strike somebody. And then when a parent picks them up and takes them away and sits with them in their room for the next hour, the kid's nervous system got exactly what it needed, which was a regulated adult.

[Kelly]

Ah.

[Dr. John]

Now I feel safe. Yeah. And. But it's. It's not quote unquote. Some kids are disliked. It. Some. Some kids. It's not normal to hit a parent or hit a Younger sibling multiple times get forcibly carried out of a room and say, we do. You cannot hit, and they continue to try to fight you for hours. That's not normal. Yeah. Okay. So the context dependency is really important as well. So there's something going on there. And sitting down with a psychologist or a different therapist and saying, my kid is an angel over here, kids an angel over here, and my kid is violent and unsafe and a switch flips and there's something about our home that setting her off, and we've got to get this under control because my house is not safe. Yeah. And you're confident that she has a good, safe relationship with your wife?

[Kelly]

I. Yeah. Beyond the shadow of a doubt.

[Dr. John]

Okay. And you're confident she has a good, safe relationship with her brothers?

[Kelly]

I am, yeah.

[Dr. John]

Okay. Yeah. Something is not lining up for me. And I. I can't do this one over the phone. I. I couldn't do this one in person. I'm not trained beyond this. Other than to let you know there's some. Yeah, there's something pretty severe and you're not crazy and what your family needs. Because here's what I don't want you to do. I don't want you to lose your sons in the process either. And I don't want you to lose your marriage in the process either. And can I just say this? You answered all my hard questions. Yeah. I'm almost confident that you go to bed every night looking in the mirror and with tired eyes and bags under your eyes, thinking, I'm failing as a dad. And I want you to let you know this isn't normal and you're doing the best you can, and I'm proud of you. Okay.

[Kelly]

Thank you. I appreciate it.

[Dr. John]

Every dad wants to just have a little girl that's just awesome and safe and funny and snuggly and all those. And powerful and loud and tough and all those things, and this is scary. Okay. Yeah. And even if you can every once in a while look in the mirror and put your fist in your chest and just say, I'm doing the best I can.

[Kelly]

Thank you. Okay, I will.

[Dr. John]

Yeah. All right, man. Dude, thanks for the call, brother. That was tough. Tough, tough, tough, tough. Yeah. Get on the phone today and make some more calls. And I hate that. For your psych eval. That's just the state of mental health care in our country right now that you may, may, may. I guess school might be out, but you may be able to fast track one through the school system and get a psych eval. That way, it just depends on where you live and oh, man, what a mess that is. But I hate that for you. But yeah, transfer over and you may go check out her, her primary care physician and see if there's some additional help there. They often just want to throw tranqs at it or something. And so it just, I mean, it just depends. There's so much, so many variables here. But I guess the best I can tell you is, man, she's lucky to have you as a dad. Trying to love her the best you can in a really messy situation. Call anytime, brother. Call anytime. We'll be right back. All right, let's talk about Delete Me. Does anyone else feel like your digital footprint is starting to feel like a digital trail leading right back to all of your Internet secrets and your address and your phone numbers and everything? Right now, scammers are using phishing attacks. That's phishing with a ph where they try to trick you into giving them something by pretending to know you. You may get an email or a text message or a phone call and the person or the AI bot on the other end of the phone or te message or email sounds like someone who's trying to help you out, but they're not. With all of the new technological advancements, no one is really safe. So what is any of us to do? You can start controlling what you can learn about how to be careful online and offline and sign up with my friends at Delete Me. I use and recommend Delete Me because they work in the background to reduce my online presence. That way I don't have to worry about creepy data brokers having my data and selling it back and forth behind my back without me knowing. Delete Me has reviewed over tens of thousands of sites for me and they've removed my data from hundreds of them, which has saved me countless hours and a ton of stress. Stop the phishing attacks, the harassment, and the other online threats before they even start and take control of your digital privacy. With Delete me, go to joindeleteme.com DeLoney today for 20% off an annual plan that comes out to less than nine bucks a month. That's JoinDeleteMe.com DeLoney all right, we're back. We have the money and marriage question. A question that a real person left at our Money Marriage Marriage retreat back in February. Question is, what can I do to help my spouse feel safe talking about sex and intimacy? I've got a lot. I'd have a lot of follow up questions here. The questions on the top of my head are, what is her history with talking about sex? Was it something you just did not talk about in her home? Only bad boys or girls talked about sex? Is. Was he shamed for talking about sex or making a joke when he was a kid? Just what was the. What was the atmosphere this person, I don't know if this is male or female, grew up with. That's number one. Number two, is there a sense of I'm not good at sex? You've had so much more experience than I have. If there's some. Some level of I feel inadequate or I don't even know what I'm talking about. And this often happens when one partner's experience in sex and one's not and someone just feels dumb. And so I just don't want to say anything. None of us want to feel dumb. And so I just want to talk about it. The what can I do? What I have found, and this reason I made these cards is I made an intimacy deck. And it's not a sex deck. There's questions about sex in it, but there's broader questions about it too, is to get something like questions for humans, something like some sort of external question card game, some sort of here's 20 questions, here's whatever that allows the question. The card becomes the awkward thing. The card becomes like, you didn't ask the question. The card did. And it allows us to move over the shame or the blame and be like, oh my gosh, I can't believe that card asked that. Here's the answer, right? And it just, it frees you. And that's. I mean, that is the reason I made those cards, is to help facilitate conversations and take some of the pressure off. I guess the last thing I would say is a modified Deloney erotic envelope system, which, by the way, that doesn't exist. I just made that up. When couples are talking about how do we begin practicing desire or re establish. We got two kids and we're thinking about a third, but we're bored with our sex life, or we don't even have sex anymore, or we have sex every once in a while, just survival sex. But we don't have any intimacy in our house. We don't have any like any Eros or any play or any like, any of that kind of stuff. Just getting an envelope and one Partner writes down 10 things they want to try. It could be a position, it could be a conversation, it could just be anything. And the other partner writes down 10. And then once a week, once a month, whenever you just put on the calendar and you draw one and you just got to commit to either a trying it out, giving it a shot. And you're, you're leading with laughter, you're leading with curiosity, you're leading with, I don't even know how this is physically possible, but. Or you're leading with, all right, this doesn't even sound appealing. Tell me about why this feels appealing or why this sounds appealing. And it just becomes a way to go again, to go. I don't know. It's in the envelope and it just adds a little bit of diversion away from the intensity of saying, I really want to try X, Y and Z. It's just easier to read it off a card sometimes. But a modified version of that would be put in 10 questions you have about sex and intimacy. Put 10 questions you have. And we're not going to actually do the thing. We're just going to draw it out and talk about it over dinner somewhere. Somewhere. And for some people, this is just such a, such a sensitive topic. And millions and millions and millions of newlyweds, young married couples, people have been married for 20 years. There's so much shame associated with sex, so much shame with even talking about it, even discussing it, even having questions about it, that having some sort of environment where it's okay to talk about it. This is hard, man. So having some sort of envelope game, card game. And again, all we're trying to do is divert the gaze just a little bit and make it the card's fault, make it the envelopes question. Not your question. Right. Even if, you know, I know you wrote that, it still just has a little bit of a, of a, of a numbing effect. It just sands off the rough edges a little bit. And then I guess the final, final, final thing I would say is if you are. Someone might not feel safe talking about sex and intimacy if you have, as their partner, have made it not safe, if you make fun of them, if you mock them for what they do or don't know, for their over experience or lack of experience, if you force yourself on them or you make demands of them that they're uncomfortable with, that can just cloud the entire conversation around being erotic, around sex, around intimacy, around all that stuff. So look in the mirror and say, am I contributing to this? Am I making it awkward? Am I throwing all this stuff at my partner that they can't hold right now? And ask yourself that conversation too. But that's a few of my ideas on what you can do to help your spouse feel a little bit more safe talking about sex and intimacy? That's a tough one. Man or woman? I don't even know who asked this question, but I will say this if you can. If you all can come up with a way that you can talk about it, laugh about it, explore it, be curious about it, man, it makes for one adventurous, playful, fun, safe marriage. Thanks for the question. Love you guys. Stay out of trouble. Bye.