Dr. John DeLoney (2:36)

Have you been sleeping with this person?

Caller Allan (2:39)

Yeah.

Dr. John DeLoney (2:40)

Okay. For how. How long?

Caller Allan (2:41)

So it's. Oh, it's. It started out several years ago. It's been. It's been like eight years now.

Dr. John DeLoney (2:51)

Eight. So the better part of a decade.

Caller Chase (2:55)

Yeah.

Dr. John DeLoney (2:56)

Okay, so you've been in this. Having this affair with this other person for almost as long as halfway. As long as like 50 of your marriage, you've had somebody else?

Caller Allan (3:07)

Yeah, not quite, but yeah.

Dr. John DeLoney (3:11)

Okay. How can I help you?

Caller Allan (3:15)

So I've been talking to a therapist on the side for about three months. And I don't want to go through divorce. Never planned this.

Dr. John DeLoney (3:28)

Bro. Hold on. This isn't a one night stand. This is an eight year long sexual and emotional affair. You're talking about this like it just happened. Like you're in a work trip and you had too many drinks and you just. And it happened. Help me with this.

Caller Allan (3:45)

Well, it definitely. It definitely happens. So we were working together for a while and a couple of years before anything transpired, and she kind of like expressed to me, you know, we were actually that the times when I came by the desk, like, she couldn't. I couldn't do that. I couldn't come, you know, and I'm kind of her supervisor. And when I'd come and look at stuff, she got physically changed, I guess. Warm and flustered. Maybe it's love, whatever the feeling is. And she basically told me without telling me that she was interested. It's like, I can't handle it when you come. Bye.

Dr. John DeLoney (4:31)

And so one of your employees eight years ago said, hey, it makes me feel uncomfortable when you come by.

Caller Allan (4:39)

I should have replaced her. Yep.

Dr. John DeLoney (4:41)

And you were like, you know what? We should probably sleep together.

Caller Allan (4:45)

No.

Dr. John DeLoney (4:46)

Or we should go out for coffee. Or I have feelings for you too. Or whatever happened.

Caller Allan (4:51)

Yes. All right.

Dr. John DeLoney (4:52)

But you're. Even the way you're telling that story, it's. It's like it happened like two weeks ago.

Caller Chase (4:59)

Right.

Dr. John DeLoney (5:00)

So why are you still married?

Caller Allan (5:04)

That's the question I've wrestled with. So, like, I've been unhappy. And the large majority was probably just the butting heads at home. And what I felt was lack of respect at home. And kind of like when we had kids, they became the priority and. And I was thrown aside, not entirely.

Caller Chase (5:30)

But.

Caller Allan (5:33)

The feelings were lack of respect and arguing with me about parenting in front of our kids. And so the kids start to argue with the parents and suddenly I look like a bad guy or the wrong guy. And we were not on the same page. And we tried to counsel around the same time that that happened, finding out your different value systems. And we started counseling. Back then she had suspected just because we work in a smaller office. So she kind of like said, I bet you want to. You look at her and want to boom. And I'm like, no, never. I hadn't. That hadn't crossed my mind before until she said that. And then.

Dr. John DeLoney (6:25)

Oh, you're gonna. You're gonna blame your wife for this too?

Caller Allan (6:28)

No, no, no. That I'm not trying. I'm just, I'm Just. I guess there's. That. There's that potential in any situation. I'm not saying she's wrong for thinking that, but that's. I was shocked when she had said that because that's not at all how I felt. I always guarded my thoughts. I always tried to submit those to Christ and have. You know, not have to deal with that.

Dr. John DeLoney (7:01)

Okay.

Caller Allan (7:02)

Okay, but I.

Dr. John DeLoney (7:03)

Okay, but you're there. You're here.

Caller Chase (7:07)

Were there.

Caller Allan (7:07)

And it's.

Dr. John DeLoney (7:09)

Hold on, hold on, hold on, hold on. I. I can't help but feel there's a disassociation from reality. Okay. I don't know. A marriage. None. Zero. I don't know. A marriage that when kids start coming along, that there's not tension and that there is a need to figure out a new way to communicate. New values emerge that we didn't even know we had. This is a big deal to me. This is not a big deal to me. And there's. That's. That's. That's par. And course for marriage is par and course for having kids. And I applaud y' all for going to therapy for counseling. Try to figure out a new way. So I'll take your word for it that your wife just said, I don't care what you feel. I don't care what you think. I'm going to treat you like crap. I'm gonna not care about you at all. Which, by the way, I don't believe. But I'm gonna. I'm gonna take your full word for that. I'm gonna treat you like crap, husband. I'm not gonna care about you. I'm not gonna respect you. I'm not gonna love you. I'm just gonna care about these kids. And still you chose to sleep with one of your employees for the better. You have agency. You've always had agency. And so we're here now on this call. Tell me about how I can help you with the call. Are you wrestling with staying in your marriage? Are you wrestling with. Like, what do you. How can I help you, man?

Caller Allan (8:47)

Well, there's a lot. There's a lot of naturally. Of potential shame. I don't want to. I don't want to drag through a. A divorce. And I. My kids are super important. It's super important for me to be there with them in the mornings, taking them to school and.

Dr. John DeLoney (9:08)

I know, but you should have. You should have been through that eight years ago. Dude, here's the deal. You've burned your house down, and you're trying to tell me, like, I still want to keep the. I want to keep the upstairs and I want to keep the couches. All of that is gone now. It's over. The question is, how long are you going to live a life where you can't even look yourself in the mirror?

Caller Allan (9:36)

Right?

Dr. John DeLoney (9:37)

Because I hear that on you, dude. I hear it. I'm trying to be compassionate. I hear it.

Caller Allan (9:45)

So I've driven myself to this point and I'm. The heaviness is just overwhelming.

Dr. John DeLoney (9:55)

What got. Why now? What got you here? Are you about to be found out? Are you like, no. Why here? Why now? By the way, your wife knows. She 100% knows. You don't think so?

Caller Allan (10:17)

I don't. Seemingly not. But, I mean, maybe she. That she does. I've. I've, I've heard you tell that to other people as well, and I'm just trying to minimize destruction.

Dr. John DeLoney (10:32)

It's gone. It's already gone. It's gone, brother.

Caller Allan (10:34)

Okay?

Dr. John DeLoney (10:34)

It's gone. It's gone. That's the fantasy part of this, that you are in control of this. You're not.

Caller Allan (10:41)

Right? We're not.

Dr. John DeLoney (10:43)

It's gone. The only thing you can do now is the next right thing, which is to, for the first time in a long time, be a person of 100% integrity. What's the next right move?

Caller Allan (11:01)

Stopping what I'm doing.

Dr. John DeLoney (11:02)

Okay. And by the way, that will come with multiple lines of consequences. It may end in the loss of your business. It may end in a lawsuit at work. It may end in loss of your marriage. It may end in all of it. And that won't make it not the right thing to do. I don't see a way where these planes land. And I know you've been trying to air traffic control them all. Dude, they're gonna crash. I'm telling you, man, I've just been doing this too long.

Caller Allan (11:44)

That's what I feel.

Caller Chase (11:46)

I, I, I.

Dr. John DeLoney (11:47)

Aren't you tired?

Caller Allan (11:47)

Ultimate. And aren't you tired?

Dr. John DeLoney (11:49)

Yeah.

Caller Allan (11:50)

Yeah, it was amazing and exciting as it's happening. And then do you just realize what you just said? It's, it's going to crash. And I not. I'm not trying to be a bad person. And if things don't change, I guess, and I, I, I, number one, I'm okay with ending it and, and moving on and, but then what about my marriage? Am I, Is it, is it too long gone? Do people listen, brother things.

Dr. John DeLoney (12:36)

I'll say it one more time. The marriage you have is over. The best shot you have. If you want to keep that charade going is to exhale and put everything on the table, and maybe your wife will choose to rebuild something new with you. But your marriage hasn't been what you project to the world for 10 years. And by the way, it started falling apart before you started sleeping with one of your employees. Right? Right.

Caller Allan (13:18)

Yeah.

Dr. John DeLoney (13:21)

Who is this. Tell me about this woman who's gone eight years being the other woman. Is she content in that role? Has she been asking you to leave your wife for years? Like, even that arrangement is strange.

Caller Allan (13:39)

She's. She's married, too, and unhappy. And so talking about those things is what led to this. And. And, of course.

Dr. John DeLoney (13:55)

So there's two families. They're going to be blown up over this.

Caller Allan (14:01)

Right. And that's. That's what I've been telling her. And trying to basically get out without hurting. You can't get out without hurting people. But she. Why hasn't she. My therapist has said the same thing. Why hasn't she left her marriage? Because she's, for whatever reason, either just waiting on you or. Or she's not serious. Like, she's not seriously in love. It's not love. It's something else.

Dr. John DeLoney (14:36)

Trying to get in her head and decide why she's doing what she's doing is a waste of your time and energy.

Caller Allan (14:43)

Mm.

Dr. John DeLoney (14:45)

Building a life with somebody who also lacks that much integrity is a fool's errand. It feels to me like the right thing to do is not for you to go fire somebody, but for you to leave and you to say, I'm starting over because I've burned this whole thing to the ground. How are any of your other employees going to trust you? How are your customers going to trust you? If you can keep an ongoing deception for eight years from the person you said, till death do us part, no customers can trust. You know what I'm saying? I don't know. I don't know. I don't get that. You get the depth of the mess you're in. Or maybe you do, and it's. Just saying it out loud is so scary.

Caller Allan (15:46)

Totally.

Dr. John DeLoney (15:51)

So what does it look like? What's your next move?

Caller Allan (16:00)

I don't. That's. I don't know. I'm. That's why I'm calling.

Dr. John DeLoney (16:04)

What's your counselor been telling you? What have you been seeing a counselor for? Depression or anxiety? Have you been seeing the counselor for.

Caller Chase (16:09)

Nope.

Dr. John DeLoney (16:10)

What to do?

Caller Allan (16:11)

Yep.

Caller Charity (16:12)

He.

Caller Allan (16:13)

He said as quickly as I can end it, to do it. If it's next Monday, you know, that's.

Dr. John DeLoney (16:20)

And that's you've been seeing this person for multiple months, you said so why you haven't taken that professional's advice that you're paying. Why are you going to take mine? I'm just some yahoo on the Internets, man. Like, I think you need to have a conversation with your wife today. And at some point you have to. I don't think you fire that person or you separate from that person. I think you leave your job, I think you got to close up shop. I don't know, I don't know what your profession is and if you're a boss or if you're just a mid level manager. I don't know the arrangement, what you got, but I think the integrous thing is for you to leave. You've been in a power position over this employee for eight years. That's not going to read well in the deposition, my brother. Not to mention her feeling a like, man, I don't. What am I supposed to do, lose my job too.

Caller Allan (17:22)

Right?

Dr. John DeLoney (17:28)

Forget the legal side of it. Just like when your boss says hey, you want to come over? Like are you going to meet at a hotel or whatever. Those text messages in black and white don't read well, man, I, I, I, you go with what your therapist said. He's been working with you for months now. I think the first conversation begins with your wife or the first conversation begins with you submitting your resignation for wherever it is you work and you going home and telling your wife, here we go, here's everything. And she may get on the phone and call this other woman's husband. She may march down to who knows, you can't control what happens next. And I think this illusion of control and you balancing all these spinning plates, it's made you have to detach from reality, from the amount of pain you're about to go through and more importantly, the amount of pain you put so many other people through by your choices and your actions. And the other employees in this office, the customers that you serve, everybody. But the only person you can control right now is you. And doing the next right integris thing, that's my call for you brother. And I won't give up on you. I'll be here. If you want to call me back after it all goes down, I'll love to take that call and I'll sit here with you. Your move, man. It's your move. We come back, a man asks how to be supportive of his wife when they just can't agree. All right, I've been telling you About Cozy Earth's bamboo sheets and their pajamas and their towel sets. For a long time now, they give you that kind of comfort that makes coming home from a long day out in the wild or a long day at a chaotic workplace a reason to exhale and celebrate. And now, as the weather's getting cooler, Cozy Earth is introducing soft wash cotton sheets. I love them and I love sleeping on cotton sheets in the fall. In the winter, amazing cotton sheets give you that perfect broken and feel that your favorite T shirt gives you after years of wear. But Cozy Earth's new cotton sheets feel this way right out of the package. They're breathable, cozy and they make you feel at home like you've had them for for years, but in the best kind of way. And listen as always, Cozy Earth's new soft wash cotton sheets come with a hundred night sleep trial. Try them out and if you don't love them, you can return them hassle free. Trust me, you're not going to want to. You owe it to yourself to try out Cozy Earth's new soft wash cotton sheets. I can't tell you. They're amazing. They're amazing. Go to cozyearth.com jaloney and because cozy feels even better with a surprise. When you spend 250 bucks and you use Code Deloney, they're going to hook you up with a free jogger set with your order. By the way, their jogger sets are awesome. That's cozy. C o z y cozyearth.com DeLoney and Code DeLoney for a free jogger set. Home isn't just where you live. It's also how you feel. Let's go home with Cozy Earth. All right, let's go to Charleston, West Virginia and talk to Chase. What up, Chase?

Caller Chase (20:59)

Hey, how you doing, Dr. Don?

Dr. John DeLoney (21:01)

I'm good, brother. How are you, man?

Caller Chase (21:03)

Oh, I'm doing good, doing good.

Dr. John DeLoney (21:04)

What's up?

Caller Chase (21:06)

Hey, I appreciate you taking my call. I was calling. So my wife and I, we've been married for seven years now and we got three kids. You got five, Three and one. He's not even one yet. And in the last couple years, the kind of the way that we've looked at parenting has changed a little bit, you know. You know, we were raised in, you know, kind of different households. Her household was split, mine was together. But you know, I was kind of raised with a, you know, more with a heavy hand. And she, you know, her parents really didn't, when she wasn't a bad kid or anything like that, but she didn't really get punished all that much. And so our oldest two boys have. We got. All three of the kids are boys. They have started to kind of pushing her in a level that, you know, they're, they're definitely pushing their boundaries with her.

Caller Allan (22:08)

Hold on.

Dr. John DeLoney (22:09)

They're five.

Caller Chase (22:11)

Five, three. And so the three and the five year old.

Dr. John DeLoney (22:14)

Okay, so I'm going to change your language right out of the gate. Okay. To make sure we're on the same page.

Caller Chase (22:18)

Yeah.

Dr. John DeLoney (22:19)

Five and three year olds don't. Unless they have like psychiatric disorders. Five and three year old boys are usually just fully five and three year old boys.

Caller Chase (22:33)

Okay, what do you, what do you mean when you say fully?

Dr. John DeLoney (22:37)

I mean when you say these boys have just started pushing her buttons as though they're in the wrong. Five and three year olds are just five and three year olds.

Caller Allan (22:48)

Yeah.

Dr. John DeLoney (22:49)

And it's the adults jobs to not allow five and three year olds to push their buttons. You get what I'm saying?

Caller Chase (22:56)

Oh, yeah, I hear you.

Dr. John DeLoney (22:57)

And that's got a lot of, that's got a lot of implications. I know it's a heavy statement I'm making, but I never want to blame a five and a three year old for being five and three.

Caller Chase (23:06)

Well, and that kind of comes to the crux of the issue.

Dr. John DeLoney (23:08)

Okay.

Caller Chase (23:09)

Like I said, I, I was raised with a heavy hand and I always, you know, was kind of worried that I'd be.

Dr. John DeLoney (23:15)

Did you get hit a lot?

Caller Chase (23:18)

And I don't want to talk bad about my parents. It wasn't hit, but it was, you know, southern kind of, you know, grab the switch and, you know, pull down your britches and hit you. Well, yeah, but pull your beer, embarrass you. Yeah, yeah. But you know, it wasn't anything that I would consider. Wouldn't abuse by any means.

Caller Charity (23:37)

But I'll.

Dr. John DeLoney (23:38)

Let that one go. Okay, Keep going, keep going.

Caller Chase (23:42)

And it was a, you know, I, I was trying to really be careful whenever I was, you know, becoming dad. Making sure I wouldn't, you know, whooping on my boys and giving them any kind of issues or nothing. You know, my wife and I, we kind of, it's all the same things. And you know, now she's, you know, because she's at home with all three of them, which, the five, the five year old's going to school now, so it ain't as bad.

Dr. John DeLoney (24:06)

Get right down to your question for me. What, what are y' all struggling with?

Caller Chase (24:10)

So she's punishing the boys in ways and manners. I would, I don't necessarily agree with.

Dr. John DeLoney (24:15)

Okay.

Caller Chase (24:17)

And she doesn't want to listen anything I have to say because she's one that's at home with them.

Dr. John DeLoney (24:22)

Okay.

Caller Chase (24:23)

But I also. She's at kind of a real vulnerable state right now. So I don't want to, you know, I want to encourage her and be.

Caller Allan (24:31)

Supportive of her, but I don't know.

Caller Chase (24:33)

How to do that, you know, without, you know, crushing her spirit and telling her, you know, you ain't doing it. Right.

Dr. John DeLoney (24:38)

Gotcha. Awesome.

Caller Allan (24:39)

Because.

Caller Chase (24:40)

Because, I mean, I'm. It's my first, but I just take my third time. But I don't know what I'm doing either.

Dr. John DeLoney (24:44)

Right. None of us do, man. As none of us do. Hey, can I just. Can I tell you I appreciate the call?

Caller Allan (24:49)

Yeah.

Dr. John DeLoney (24:50)

And I appreciate you seeing your wife struggling and wanting to love her best you can.

Caller Allan (24:53)

Yep.

Dr. John DeLoney (24:54)

And at the same time, I appreciate you being a dad who wants to protect his kids and to love and honor his kids in a different way than you were treated. Okay. I think all of that is noble. I'm proud of you. Okay. That tells me you're a good daddy and a good husband. Okay. Good on you. There's a couple of hard truths here, but I'll just jump right directly into the middle of them. Okay.

Caller Chase (25:22)

All right.

Dr. John DeLoney (25:22)

Hard truth number one is your wife has to have a circle of women in her life, of people in her life that is not 5 and 3 and 1. And that affirms her and that listens to her and communicates with her and gives her a full picture of a full life. The picture you're painting me right now is an exhausted, fried, stuck at home woman who's dealing with both postpartum and a five year old and a three year old. And the who am I? And I want to be a mom. And I want to be a stay at home mom. And my family broke up, so my family's not going to break up. And it just that. That comes out as people snap. That's when adults find themselves yelling at five year olds and three year olds. Right. Or banging the walls or hitting kids or what? Like if you feel this thing coming out of you.

Caller Chase (26:22)

Oh, yeah, right.

Dr. John DeLoney (26:23)

Am I on to something?

Caller Chase (26:25)

Oh, yeah.

Dr. John DeLoney (26:25)

Okay.

Caller Chase (26:26)

Hit nail on the head.

Dr. John DeLoney (26:27)

So you can create space for her to do that. She's gonna have to choose that. Yeah. How do you create space? It begins very small with how can I love you today? I don't know. Why don't you? No, no, no, no, no. How can I love you today? And this is you chase coming home from a full, full, full tiring, exhausting day of work and still walking in the door and being plugged in as you can and collapsing on the bed. This won't be forever. This will be for a couple years. Is the season. It's winter. You got to wear a coat right now.

Caller Chase (27:09)

Yep.

Dr. John DeLoney (27:10)

Right. And that looks like how can I love you? That looks like calling your mom or a friend or a neighbor to come over a couple of times a week. It also looks like saying, we're not going to treat the boys like this. You're not here. You can. I'm just putting my foot down. We're not gonna, we're not gonna beat up on these kids, period. Yeah. And so it's both. And if you don't protect your kids, and I'm intentionally not asking you specific questions. Okay, I want you to hear that. If you don't protect your kids from whoever, it's wrong.

Caller Chase (27:54)

Yeah.

Dr. John DeLoney (27:55)

And there is a way you can protect your kids and honor your exhausted, fried, completely spun out wife, Lonely wife too, at the same time, but she's going to have to a opt into some changes and be a part of it, and you can't make her do that, but you can protect those kids.

Caller Chase (28:15)

Yeah.

Dr. John DeLoney (28:16)

And I know this is uncomfortable. Fair.

Caller Chase (28:19)

Yeah, it is. But you know, I'm, you know, I wanted, I want to do right by all of them. You know, I don't, I don't want it to put no blame on, you know, one person or another.

Dr. John DeLoney (28:28)

It's, you know, if somebody's hurting kids, there's blame. There's blame to be put.

Caller Charity (28:32)

Well.

Caller Chase (28:33)

And when I say hurt, not, I don't mean nothing like abusive or nothing like that.

Dr. John DeLoney (28:36)

Okay.

Caller Chase (28:38)

I don't mean to insinuate that by any means.

Dr. John DeLoney (28:40)

Okay. So have you, have you tried this? Have you tried this? You calling around and getting a babysitter? Even if y' all can't afford it, you figure it out. Just figure it out and y' all go away for a two or three hour long, long breakfast at a local diner.

Caller Chase (28:57)

The other, I mean, it's a small thing, but is she don't really feel comfortable leaving the kids with, with nobody. So that's where it's like, it kind of limits my options on what I can do to kind of, you know, it's either, you know, I can, I'll watch them and you know, because I'll do it like once, once a week and you know, she'll kind of get out and.

Dr. John DeLoney (29:15)

But, but that to me is A is a flag in and of itself that she is so closely identified. That she is so closely identified. Her well being, it becomes, it becomes codependent. Yeah, I need my kids to be okay. I need to my. I need to be the have hawk eyes on these kids so that I can be okay. Which in a weird way means she's using those kids for her own well being. And kids can't carry that weight.

Caller Chase (29:49)

Yeah.

Dr. John DeLoney (29:51)

And so that becomes a hard conversation to say. I know that you love our kids and I know that you struggle with the anxiousness of letting somebody else watch them. And there will not be peace in this house if you can't disengage. And so we're going to practice, and sometimes that's hiring somebody to come over or mom or grandparent or somebody to come over for 10 minutes and go for a walk and then come back and the next week it's 15 minutes and the next week it's, we're gonna go get breakfast and come right back. It becomes a practice.

Caller Chase (30:21)

Yeah.

Dr. John DeLoney (30:22)

But if somebody can't disengage with three little ones, and yet the lack of disengagement from those three little ones is making them insane. Somebody who loves her has to get in the middle of that and say, hey, look, will she go see a counselor with you?

Caller Chase (30:38)

Yeah, I think so.

Dr. John DeLoney (30:38)

Okay.

Caller Chase (30:39)

We had, we hadn't done it, but I think she would.

Dr. John DeLoney (30:42)

Okay.

Caller Chase (30:43)

But again, it'd kind of be the same thing as we'd have to have someone watch the kids.

Dr. John DeLoney (30:48)

Great.

Caller Chase (30:49)

You know, but I may have to just kind of tell her, you know, try and be nice about it.

Dr. John DeLoney (30:55)

But here's the way I would say. I love you. Have I ever lied to you? Hopefully the answer is no. I have booked us an appointment with a local counselor and I have made arrangements. And I know you don't want to go, and I'm asking you to come with me. I'm not okay. And I want you to be okay. And I want us to be okay. If you go to her and say you're acting crazy, you're not. Right. And so I made us an appointment. She's not going to go. But just maybe if you say I need to go see somebody so that I can better love you and I can be a better dad for these three kids, but I can't do this by myself. Will you come with me? She may come with you, yeah. Okay. But that means you get the babysitter and you make the first counseling appointment. Or better yet, I'm going to give you Three months of my friends at Better Help for free. So y' all can do couples counseling online and you can put the kids in another room and y' all can talk on the computer screen together. Okay. I think it's. I think for you all, especially for her. She needs to be in the presence of somebody. I think that nervous system regulation will be helpful. But to get you started, I'll stay on the line here and I'll get you hooked up with three months for free with my friends at Better Help. But it's a both and thing. But constantly we're coming back to how can I love you today? How can I love you today? Hang on the line. Also, I'm going to hook you up. I started that together app, which is an app designed to get you off of your phone, actually, and back into your marriage with a daily practice. We only have it for Apple so far, so it's not in the Android Store yet. We're working on it. But if you got. If you got an Apple phone, I'm gonna hook you up with it. We'll get your email address, and we'll get it sent over to you. It's a daily practice that you and your wife can do together, and both of you will have different assignments for the that day. But it's designed to, through daily practices, bring peace back into your marriage and back into your household so that y' all can do the next right thing. She's lucky to have you, man. But it's going to take some investment, and you're going to be tired. It's going to take some investment, and you don't sound like you're a guy that's scared of hard work. So we're going to head right into the middle of this thing. You're going to get the babysitter. You're going to make the counseling appointment. You're going to tell her, I love you and I want to be a better husband. I want to be a better dad. I need some support. And we're going to protect these kids. We're not screaming and yelling and scaring children. All of that. And it's a tall order. Means you got to learn some new skills. And I'm proud of you for stepping into it. Thanks for the call, my brother. Call anytime. And hey, if she wants to call, too, if y' all both want to call, I'd love to have you both on. Next up, a woman asks if she should prioritize money management or her mental health. This show is sponsored by Better Help. All right, here's the truth. I have great friends. I got a strong faith, and I have an amazing wife and a family. I'm also kind of a nerd. I got two PhDs worth of information about how to be well and whole, right? And yet there have been critically important times in my life, several of these times over the years that I've had to go spend time with a great therapist. And that time with a therapist has made all the difference for me and my emotional health, my mental health, and my relationships. The right therapist can change everything. In this month, my friends at Better Help are shining the spotlight on the therapists. These are the people who truly make the world a better place. With over 30,000 therapists, BetterHelp is the largest online therapy provider on, on the planet. They've served over 5 million people globally and they have over 1.7 million client reviews and an average rating of 4.9 out of 5. BetterHelp works. It's totally online, and it's easy to fit into your schedule. To get started, you just answer a few simple questions and they're going to connect you with a licensed therapist who will fit you and your needs. If it's not the right fit, you can switch therapists at any time for no extra cost. This month, we celebrate the therapists who have helped millions take a step forward. And if you're ready to find the right therapist for you, BetterHelp can start you on that journey. Visit betterhelp.com DeLoney to get 10% off your first month. That's a BetterHelp. H E L P.com DeLoney all right, let's go out to Springfield, Missouri and talk to Charity. What's up, Charity?

Caller Charity (35:38)

Hi, Dr. John.

Dr. John DeLoney (35:40)

What's up?

Caller Charity (35:42)

Honestly, I'm. I'm tired and I'm. I'm a bit overwhelmed. But I'm so grateful that I get to speak with you. You've been such an influence in my life the last eight months.

Dr. John DeLoney (35:51)

So thanks for calling. I appreciate your trust. What's up?

Caller Charity (35:55)

So obviously I've been through a journey with my mental health. Thank you for being a random podcast that I saw on YouTube one day. Anyways, so, and so I've been really realizing that my mental health has, has really been struggling these past few years, more so than. Than. Than ever. So I really. And I'm the breadwinner in my family and I really took a step back this year and took a step back from work. And my job in and of itself is extremely stressful as well.

Dr. John DeLoney (36:31)

What's your job?

Caller Charity (36:34)

I'M a critical care rn.

Dr. John DeLoney (36:36)

Trauma nurse.

Caller Charity (36:37)

Yeah, exactly. Yep.

Dr. John DeLoney (36:40)

What population? Everybody.

Caller Charity (36:42)

Everybody. I do neuro, neurotrauma, icu, regular icu, cardiovascular, intensive care. I do it all.

Dr. John DeLoney (36:52)

So for people listening, when you're a critical care nurse, not only are you dealing with people that are on the precipice of dying, you're also dealing with sobbing children, screaming wives, devastated husbands. You're dealing with all of that all at the same time.

Caller Charity (37:11)

Absolutely.

Dr. John DeLoney (37:12)

And that's an exhausting. You're dealing with egos of doctors. You're dealing with other nurses that are dropping off sobbing in closets and coming out and wiping their mascara or they're like, what? It's just a mess.

Caller Charity (37:25)

Oh yes, I've been one of those in that closet wiping mascara away many a time.

Dr. John DeLoney (37:29)

If I wore mascara, I would have been wiping mine off too. I've snuck off those closets and I' a day to day nurse, so.

Caller Charity (37:39)

And then real recently as I've kind of been on this journey, ironically my husband started the journey and I thought in the beginning I'm like, so I go babble mumbo jumbo, whatever. And he came to me and he, he really, you know, he's pouring his heart out to me and he's really trying to better himself as well. So we're both really struggling with. I've got past trauma and then stressful job and then just through your show and just through me finding, you know, that these things, my mental health is profoundly affecting my children as well. You know, I've got three little ones and they need to be my priority. But with that step back, we have fallen behind on our bills so much so we're behind on our mortgage again and that is just. We're behind on our water bill and I know the four corners of your home, the four foundational walls and if we can't even make those things happen, what do I do? Do I prioritize me so I can be better and I can be here for my children? Or do I go or do I push through and I hustle and I get through because I can't. I do have an opportunity to make more money at my job. You know, it is a specialty and there's always sick people in hours and everything. So I do have an opportunity to pick up. But I just. The idea of me taking that time away from my kids who are semi in crisis right now, we just ironically, after I got a phone call from your show that letting me know that I was going to be on, we were dealing with Some hard truths that we found out about our 13 year old daughter. And anyways, are you able to share? Well, my daughter is struggling a little bit with some personal. She's. We found out she had been self harming my. I'm not a terribly spiritual person but one day I. She came home from school and I saw in her backpack I just. When I say my ears were like ringing like tinnitus, like really, really ringing. And I went to my husband and I said man, I think something's wrong with our daughter. I said man, something' and he said, you know, we really should respect her privacy. Like that was a big thing, you know, us respecting her privacy. She's a very capable young woman. At least we felt so anyways, and long story short, I went with my gut. My ears were ringing loud with warning bell mama, warning bells. So I sat down with my daughter, I pulled out the thing that I felt like she was hiding and we talked for think it was like an hour. And long story short, I found in the notebook there were notes from her friends stating. Please don't. They were.

Caller Allan (40:47)

I'm sorry, you're good.

Caller Charity (40:48)

They were notes of her friends begging them, not begging her not to kill herself, not to go. And I had no idea.

Dr. John DeLoney (41:01)

Yeah.

Caller Charity (41:04)

And so we went to. And again because your show we got into crisis. We got into a crisis appointment the next morning we went and saw our pediatrician. We got her on some medication and everything. But how can I take time away from her when she's hurting? And may I just back talk and speak say that that's what I'm talking about. Whenever we went to the crisis appointment that we found out that my husband and I's behavior and our lack of reign in us as being adults for a matter of fact you know, letting our mental health run wild. And we just kind of felt like it didn't affect anybody but ourselves. But it really, really affected my daughter.

Dr. John DeLoney (41:55)

Yeah. So do me a huge favor.

Caller Charity (42:00)

Yes.

Dr. John DeLoney (42:01)

Take a deepest breath as you possibly can. Hold it for a count of four, three, two, blow it out with your mouth and then pull your shoulders all the way down. Okay.

Caller Charity (42:16)

You know, I do this every time you tell somebody to put their shoulders down. I find my shoulders are up.

Dr. John DeLoney (42:21)

I can hear it. First and foremost, thank you for sharing that. Have you said that out loud about your daughter yet? Have you told anybody?

Caller Charity (42:33)

Well, my husband besides my therapist. My therapist.

Dr. John DeLoney (42:36)

Besides your therapist. You pay. You pay your therapist.

Caller Charity (42:40)

My sisters. I do have my. My two sisters that I did let.

Dr. John DeLoney (42:43)

Now so this might sound bananas I don't hear somebody who's working too much.

Caller Charity (42:53)

Okay.

Dr. John DeLoney (42:54)

And I don't hear somebody. I won't go through the whole litany. Here's what I hear. I hear somebody who's out of hope because you do. You have a switch you could flip and go get everything right financially. And my gut tells me, by the way you just told the story, that your husband will burn through it in two months.

Caller Charity (43:21)

What do you mean by that?

Dr. John DeLoney (43:26)

It's easy to get yourself in a financial position when you have an on and off switch like you do professionally. And I just picked him randomly maybe. He's a wonderful, great guy.

Caller Charity (43:39)

Oh, yes. He's the best person I know.

Dr. John DeLoney (43:43)

Okay, then I take back what I said.

Caller Charity (43:45)

Okay. I feel like the problem child in our marriage, to be honest.

Dr. John DeLoney (43:51)

Why? Tell me what makes you the problem child?

Caller Charity (43:54)

I just feel he's. He's very kind and he is very patient and.

Dr. John DeLoney (43:59)

Hey, but hold on, hold on. Does he make any. Is he making enough money to help support the family?

Caller Charity (44:05)

He, he does work a full time. He does work a full time job, yes, he does. Okay. It's just. He's Monday. He's Monday through Friday, you know, and. And I'm. I can work. I have that nice nurse schedule where I work my full week in three days.

Dr. John DeLoney (44:22)

Sure.

Caller Charity (44:22)

So I can pick up. I do have four other days off, but.

Dr. John DeLoney (44:26)

Well, you have four days to recover. So what about your. What is your total household income?

Caller Charity (44:31)

My total household.

Dr. John DeLoney (44:33)

Between his full time job and you working three 12s or three 10s.

Caller Charity (44:38)

So I make. I'm so sorry. We bring home about $8,200 a month total.

Dr. John DeLoney (44:49)

So his full time job does not make very much money, does it?

Caller Charity (44:52)

He makes about $3,800 a month take home pay.

Dr. John DeLoney (45:00)

And as a trauma nurse, you bring home 5,000 bucks a month, 60 grand a year.

Caller Allan (45:04)

Yeah.

Caller Charity (45:05)

Yes. And that is me working weekend. Weekend option, which is an additional. Something extra an hour.

Dr. John DeLoney (45:16)

So what's your house payment a month?

Caller Charity (45:19)

It is. It's $2900 a month.

Dr. John DeLoney (45:26)

So that's right on the, right on the edge there.

Caller Allan (45:29)

Yeah.

Dr. John DeLoney (45:30)

Do you have car payments? Were y' all struggling with this? Like, how much money do you owe if you put all your debts on a piece of paper?

Caller Charity (45:36)

Well, without, without my house, without my house payment, we owe 20, $24,000. And that's just, that's credit card. That's like 8,000. That's almost 10,000 in credit card debt. And then all those odds and ends, braces, just like loan repay we took. We took. What is that called? Retirement loans? Got to repay. Oh, my gosh. We gotta. We owe our Missouri and our federal income tax stuff. It's just crazy. But those payments are killing us. We didn't buy new cars. Our cars are on our last leg. We tried to do the Dave Ramsey thing a while back and we were able to pay off our vehicles and we never bought new ones. And we did pay off our cards, but we just. We just keep filling them back up.

Dr. John DeLoney (46:42)

Well, it sounds like you're in the middle of what I would call the American nightmare right now, which is there's this life that we want to have and we both have two jobs. And they're not. They're not world beater jobs, but they're good jobs. They're good stable jobs. And yet we just find ourselves slipping and slipping and slipping. And here's the cold hard truth that nobody wants to talk about. Okay? And we could talk about taxing billionaires and we can talk about that. We can do all that. That doesn't help the average person because the average person's drowning.

Caller Chase (47:16)

Right?

Caller Charity (47:18)

Yes. I've made more money now than I ever have. That's my entire life. And we are broker than I ever was with a newborn on food stamps with one job.

Dr. John DeLoney (47:30)

So here's the. Here's the reality. You can spend less money and. Or you can make more.

Caller Charity (47:41)

Okay.

Dr. John DeLoney (47:42)

The other option that people recoil at is you can get very strict with a budget, okay. And say for the first time, here is where every dollar is going to go. And if it's not there, then we eat at home. And if it's not there, because when I say you're out of hope and I thought it was your husband, I'm glad to know that he's putting working his butt off. And I'm glad to know you got three kids. You said, or two.

Caller Charity (48:16)

I have three.

Dr. John DeLoney (48:16)

Three. Okay, so you got a lot going on and you got a chaotic job and I'll get with your. Your job here in a second. I'm glad to know it's not. You don't have somebody in the house dragging everybody down. The two adults. Okay. But also you walking around thinking that you're a burden to your family isn't true. It's just not honest. You're not a burden to your family. Listen to me. I don't care what it feels like. It's incorrect. Or at least go with me for right now that you're feeling. Thermometer is off. It's not calibrated. Is that fair?

Caller Charity (49:00)

I can believe that for sure.

Dr. John DeLoney (49:02)

Your kids will not be better off without their mom in their life. Your patients and those families will not be better off without you. Your husband will not be better off without you. Okay.

Caller Charity (49:13)

Okay.

Dr. John DeLoney (49:14)

It's not a factual statement. But also, if you're going to go hit the switch and work really hard for six months and make an extra $2,000 a month, 12 grand, and get halfway to that debt paid off, and your husband's going to come home and pick up some slack, some major slack after his job, and you come home and you all just go out to eat that money away. You're out of hope.

Caller Charity (49:50)

Well, and I. And I'm not entirely sure. It's not really that we eat. We. We are very good.

Dr. John DeLoney (49:56)

I made that up. I made that up.

Caller Charity (49:58)

Okay. I was like, no, just. I don't know why. Everything is just so it. We are barely making ends meet. It's crazy.

Dr. John DeLoney (50:06)

Okay. But you bring home $96,000.

Caller Charity (50:10)

I know. Where does it go?

Dr. John DeLoney (50:11)

Right? And because you can't answer that question, we can say it's because of the eggs, it's because of the strawberries, or it's because of the. You don't know. You don't know.

Caller Charity (50:21)

We're going to count for every dollar.

Dr. John DeLoney (50:23)

Every single one, and it's going to feel restrictive. Think of it this way. It's like if every football player who went out on the field got mad at the length of the field or the length of a timeout or that if everyone just wanted to play by different rules, that game would not be fun. It would be very unsafe and everybody would get hurt and people quit playing.

Caller Chase (50:48)

Yeah.

Dr. John DeLoney (50:48)

What a budget does is it establishes the rules of the game so that then within those rules, you could do whatever you want. Do you get what I'm saying?

Caller Charity (51:00)

Yes. Yes. You're establishing boundaries. You know what your limitations are and what you have to work with.

Dr. John DeLoney (51:06)

But it also gives you an amazing amount of freedom. It helps you traffic in reality. And when you say you're struggling with mental health, when you struggle with emotional health, it's usually a detachment from reality. When your body is rooted in real life and your mind and your feelings and your relationships are rooted in other places or unrooted, they're untethered. You get what I'm saying?

Caller Charity (51:31)

Yes. When I'm home, I. I find myself just pacing around.

Dr. John DeLoney (51:35)

Yeah.

Caller Charity (51:35)

But I have an inability to do anything.

Dr. John DeLoney (51:38)

It's just spins and it spins and it spins. Yeah.

Caller Charity (51:42)

Yes. Yep. That's exactly.

Dr. John DeLoney (51:44)

Yeah. Have you Ever sat down with a trauma counselor to talk about childhood stuff?

Caller Charity (51:52)

I have since starting your show. I did go establish care with a counselor, and she's not a trauma counsel, but remember, I went from a state of this is phooey to I guess I'll go see somebody at where my husband goes to see his therapist. And she's been part of the reason I was so in a moment of desperation, I emailed you as I asked my counselor this very question, like, what do I do? Do I prioritize my mental health or my. Or my financial health? And she looked at me and she.

Caller Chase (52:26)

Said, girl, I don't know.

Caller Charity (52:28)

And so that's when I sent you that email.

Dr. John DeLoney (52:30)

All right, So I want you to make a commitment to me, okay. To never binary your choices. Okay.

Caller Charity (52:43)

Okay.

Dr. John DeLoney (52:45)

Most anxious people I know. And by the way, your anxiety sounds both personal and professional.

Caller Charity (52:55)

Oh.

Dr. John DeLoney (52:57)

Which then we try to solve with chaos. And then our children absorb that stuff and they can't carry the chaos. And it comes out in all kinds of different ways. It comes out in cutting. It comes out in using marijuana. It comes out in straight A's. It comes out all over the place with them trying to shoulder the weight of adult chaos. And so think of you telling your therapist, you don't have to re up. You don't have to go back. It's a professional relationship. Okay. But you looking there in Springfield and finding a trauma informed therapist and say, I'm ready to deal with the hard stuff. Okay?

Caller Charity (53:49)

Okay.

Dr. John DeLoney (53:50)

And I'm telling you, this is. This will give peace to great grandkids that you will never get to meet because you did this work. It's been the highest honor of my week to get to talk to you charity. Thank you so, so much for your call, for your bravery, for your honesty. Hang on the line. I'm going to send you a couple of things. First thing I'm going to send you is I'm going to send you every dollar, the premium app that will help you and your husband with your budgeting. Okay? And husband, if you listen to this call, forgive me. I came after you at the beginning of this call. I was wrong. Usually it's the husband or the one of the partners. It was neither of you guys. So accept my forgiveness there. I'm gonna send you every dollar app for a year, the premium version, it will link with your bank. It will link with each other. And I want y' all to make an ironclad till death do a smart budget. We're gonna know where every dollar is. And we're gonna get to the bottom of how do we bring home $96,000, but we can't afford groceries. I'm gonna be honest about that. And then we're going to be honest. I'm going to send you Financial Peace University. The course, the actual nine lessons. It's a digital lessons. I want you to watch them as a family. All of y' all watch them, okay? And by the way, a balance between my mental health or my financial health. That stuff's too braided together. It's woven together. So as y' all begin to work on your financial health, you begin to feel more confident. You feel, you begin to develop a plan. And you'll have values that you share together over time that helps your mental and emotional health. Okay? It all works together. And sometimes you pause one for the other, etc. But we're going to work on that thing going together. Okay? I'm also going to send you two copies of my book, Building a non Anxious Life. I want you and your whole family to read that. And we're going to shift our household focus to how do we create peace here? And today, you're gonna call. You're gonna make that call to a trauma informed therapist in town. You say, I'm ready. Some hard, hard stuff, and the healing is going to begin. I would say day one, but you're already way past that. You're on it, Charity. I'm proud of you. You call me any time, anytime. High honor. We'll be right back. All right. Kelly 2.0. Cool. Crap. That happened. What's up?

Caller Kelly (56:05)

Yes.

Dr. John DeLoney (56:06)

So this is with Kelly 1.0 in the shadows.

Caller Kelly (56:09)

No pressure, right?

Dr. John DeLoney (56:10)

Distant analog shadows.

Caller Kelly (56:13)

So this comes from CJ in Pittsburgh. He says, this past weekend, I have the honor of marrying a friend and his wife. I took it upon myself to personalize the ceremony section, and during it, I challenged the couple to ask one another one simple question each day. How can I love you? Today after the ceremony, I had multiple people of all ages ask where I came up with that question. And obviously, I gave you all the credit, John.

Dr. John DeLoney (56:38)

That would be so awesome if he was like, all me, dude, all me.

Caller Kelly (56:42)

The great conversations that came from such a simple question were so amazing to be a part of. Thank you so much for inspiring so many couples of all ages to love each other.

Dr. John DeLoney (56:52)

That's awesome. And I'm not gonna lie, when you first started reading this and he said, I married a couple friend this weekend, I was like, well, here we go. Here's yet another call. But he officiated the wedding. That's good. That's good. That would have been par for the course for this show. Awesome. Hey, everybody, keep loving each other. That's awesome. That's all I'm gonna say. Love you guys. Bye.