I’ve Kept My Diagnosis a Secret (Should I Come Clean?)

Summary

Podcast Summary: The Dr. John DeLoney Show Episode: I’ve Kept My Diagnosis a Secret (Should I Come Clean?)
Release Date: August 13, 2025

---

Introduction

In this episode of The Dr. John DeLoney Show, host Dr. John DeLoney addresses critical issues surrounding mental health disclosures, familial relationships, and setting healthy boundaries. The show features heartfelt conversations with callers Ava, David, and Brent, each grappling with unique personal challenges.

---

Caller 1: Ava from Jacksonville, Florida

Topic: Keeping a Schizophrenia Diagnosis Secret

Key Points:

• Ava, a 25-year-old college student with a steady job, discusses her recent diagnosis of schizophrenia and her struggle with whether to disclose it to her family, friends, and partners.
• Unlike typical schizophrenia symptoms, Ava experiences delusions without hallucinations, making her condition easier to conceal but nonetheless stressful.
• She has been consistently medicated for a year, which has significantly reduced her symptoms, though missing doses can cause occasional relapses.

Notable Quotes:

• Ava [00:05]: "I was unfortunately diagnosed with schizophrenia. Is it wrong of me to keep this secret from literally every single person that I know?"
• Dr. John DeLoney [05:44]: "You don't owe anybody anything."
• Dr. John DeLoney [10:32]: "You are not a liar for being careful about who you tell."

Insights and Advice:

• Cultural Pressure: Dr. DeLoney highlights the societal expectation to overshare on social media, debunking the myth that withholding personal information equates to deceit.
• Selective Disclosure: He encourages Ava to identify a trusted few—perhaps a partner or a close friend—for support, emphasizing the importance of not keeping such burdens entirely to oneself.
• Accountability Circle: Dr. John suggests creating a support system that can help Ava stay committed to her treatment, noting the benefits of having trusted individuals who can remind her to take her medication.
• Future Planning: He advises Ava to set future check-ins with her healthcare provider to ensure ongoing evaluation and support.

Conclusion with Ava: Ava expresses her gratitude, and Dr. John reinforces his pride in her efforts to manage her condition while navigating the complexities of secrecy and stigma.

---

Caller 2: David from Baton Rouge, Louisiana

Topic: Confronting Parental Trauma and Setting Boundaries

Key Points:

• David, a 23-year-old newly married man, seeks advice on addressing unresolved trauma with his mother, who denies any wrongdoing and uses manipulative tactics.
• He shares a history of a toxic upbringing within a conservative Christian community, where parental authority overshadowed personal freedom, leading to familial estrangement and emotional distress.
• David struggles with lingering guilt and the desire to reconcile while fearing that confrontation will be futile and exacerbate existing tensions.

Notable Quotes:

• David [16:19]: "Hey, Dr. John. What's up, brother?"
• David [26:12]: "I guess I kind of just want to get rid of the guilt I feel of feeling that way about my mom."
• Dr. John DeLoney [27:22]: "The greatest gift, the greatest way to dispose of that guilt is you go through an exercise of mercy, of forgiveness."

Insights and Advice:

• Forgiveness for Self-Healing: Dr. John emphasizes that forgiveness is primarily for David's own peace, not necessarily for his mother's benefit.
• Moving Forward: He urges David to focus on building his new marriage and establishing healthy boundaries, rather than attempting to resolve a relationship that has historically been damaging.
• Emotional Release: Dr. John suggests writing a compassionate letter to his younger self, allowing David to release old burdens and embrace a healthier future.
• Practical Exercises: He recommends visualizing and symbolically removing his parents' influence from decision-making processes, thereby reinforcing his autonomy.

Conclusion with David: David acknowledges the depth of his struggles, and Dr. John encourages him to prioritize his well-being and the health of his new marriage over past unresolved conflicts.

---

Caller 3: Brent from Indianapolis

Topic: Establishing Healthy Boundaries with an Abrasive Mother

Key Points:

• Brent discusses ongoing challenges with his abrasive and toxic mother, who undermines his parenting by making disparaging comments about his methods.
• A recent incident where Brent and his wife were excluded from the family vacation escalated tensions, leading to frustration and feelings of being undervalued.
• He seeks strategies to navigate these familial conflicts without compromising his marriage and personal well-being.

Notable Quotes:

• Brent [34:30]: "So, big question I have for you is over the past few years, my wife and I have Been working on boundaries with my parents."
• Dr. John DeLoney [40:48]: "You've got to start moving forward."

Insights and Advice:

• Self-Reflection: Dr. John encourages Brent to assess what he truly aims to achieve by confronting his parents and to consider whether continued engagement serves his and his family's best interests.
• Boundary Setting: He advises practical steps such as symbolically addressing his parents by placing their photos in frames and verbally stating that their opinions do not dictate family decisions.
• Emotional Autonomy: Dr. John underscores the importance of not allowing past hurts to influence current relationships, advocating for actions that reinforce Brent's new role as a husband and father.
• Practical Exercises: Implementing rituals like planning family activities without parental input helps Brent assert his family's independence and reduce friction.

Conclusion with Brent: Brent recognizes the complexity of his emotions and Dr. John motivates him to continue his personal growth, emphasizing the importance of prioritizing his current family over past toxic dynamics.

---

Segment: Addressing Mental Health Misinformation on Social Media

Presenter: Kelly

Key Points:

• Kelly shares a Guardian article revealing that over half of the top 100 mental health TikToks contain misinformation, with many offering vague or harmful advice.
• Examples include dubious claims like "eating an orange in the shower to reduce anxiety" and promoting unverified supplements for mental health issues.

Notable Quotes:

• Kelly [48:27]: "More than half of the top 100 mental health TikToks contain misinformation."
• Dr. John DeLoney [53:42]: "You're worth the long journey."

Insights and Advice:

• Skepticism of Quick Fixes: Dr. John warns listeners against believing on-platform hacks and urges them to seek comprehensive, professional help instead of relying on superficial social media tips.
• Encouragement for Professional Help: He promotes seeking therapy and other evidence-based treatments, reinforcing the value of sustained effort in mental health recovery.
• Critical Media Consumption: The segment underscores the importance of discerning credible information sources amidst the vast and often inaccurate content available on social media platforms.

Conclusion: Dr. John reaffirms the necessity of committed, long-term approaches to mental health issues, cautioning against the lure of easy solutions often propagated online.

---

Closing Remarks

Dr. John DeLoney wraps up the episode by reiterating his support for listeners navigating complex mental health and relationship challenges. He emphasizes the importance of self-compassion, setting boundaries, and seeking trusted support systems to foster healing and personal growth.

---

Overall Summary: This episode delves deep into the struggles of maintaining personal well-being amidst societal pressures and familial challenges. Through empathetic and practical guidance, Dr. John DeLoney empowers listeners to make informed decisions about disclosing mental health diagnoses, healing from toxic family relationships, and setting healthy boundaries. The discussions highlight the significance of long-term commitment to mental health and the dangers of misinformation, encouraging a path of self-care, forgiveness, and resilience.

Transcript

[Ava]

I was unfortunately diagnosed with schizophrenia. Is it wrong of me to keep this secret from literally every single person that I know?

[Dr. John DeLoney]

We live in a culture now that says because we have social media, you have to tell everybody everything all the time. And if you're not, then somehow you're a liar. And that's false. It's just not true. What's up? What's going on? This is John, the Dr. John DeLoney Show. I'm so glad you're with us, taking your calls on your mental and emotional health and your relationships and your kids and whatever else you got going on in your life. Go to john deloney.com, ask a s k. Love to talk to you on the show. All right, let's go out to Jacksonville, Florida, and talk to Ava. Hey, Ava. What's up?

[Ava]

Hey, how are you, Dr. John?

[Dr. John DeLoney]

I'm great. How about you?

[Ava]

I'm great.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

What do you say, lady?

[Ava]

So I kind of, like, wrote something just so I wouldn't get, you know, kind of jumbled up. Is it okay if I just kind of, like, read that to you?

[Dr. John DeLoney]

You could do whatever you want. Yeah, like, let it rip. Read it up.

[Ava]

Okay, got it. Okay. I'm kind of nervous. Sorry.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

No, don't be nervous. You're good. What's up?

[Ava]

Okay.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

So by the way, I also know telling somebody. Hold on. I know that telling somebody, hey, don't be nervous is like when somebody's depressed and you're like, ah, just cheer up. Or somebody's anxious and you're like, just don't worry about it. So I know. Be as nervous as you want to be. You're good.

[Ava]

Okay. So last year I was unfortunately diagnosed with schizophrenia. Wow.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

How old are you?

[Ava]

I'm 25. I just turned 25, like, yesterday.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Okay, before you keep reading, happy birthday. Before you keep reading, what? Usually there is a whirlwind of chaos in the years leading up to that type of diagnosis. Yeah. Tell me about your life.

[Ava]

So I feel like I live, like, a relatively normal life. Like, I go to college. I have a steady job that I've been at for probably about three years now.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Awesome.

[Ava]

Own apartment, all those things. I've been medicated for, like, the last year. So ever since I found out, I've been consistently taking my medication. So I don't really like symptoms that often anymore. They'll sometimes peek through if I maybe, like, missed like, a dose or something. But other than that, like, my day to day is, like, pretty normal. I also never really experienced, like, the typical symptoms that you think of, like, you know, when you think of somebody who experiences schizophrenia, they're, like, hearing voices and, like, seeing crazy stuff and stuff like that. Not really. Been totally my experience. My schizophrenia manifests as more so, like, delusions, which is, like, way easier to hide, but it's still, like, extremely stressful.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Give me an example of one of your. What I would call. And this is kind of jargon, but one of your classic delusions, one of the ones that. That loops on you a lot.

[Ava]

I would say the worst one that I had was that, like, the people closest to me were all plotting against me, like, plotting to hurt me in some way, either physically or emotionally. And I just was. It was just really, really bad, and it was causing serious problems with, like, my partner and my family members and stuff like that, so.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

So does the medication turn. Turn down the dials on that hallucination?

[Ava]

Pretty much. Completely.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Outstanding. That's. That's amazing. What. Hey, can we just celebrate what a weird little sliver of history we live in, right?

[Ava]

I know it's pretty weird. It's like, when I take my medicine, you know, I. I feel completely like. I feel great. You know what I mean?

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Awesome. Awesome. I. I will tell you, folks with bipolar 1 and schizophrenia, especially those who present as you do, those who take their medication regularly, which is hard, right? Because there's seasons when you feel good and you're like, I don't want to take it anymore. I want to. I just quote, unquote, want to be normal. Whatever. Those who do can live a really great life.

[Ava]

Yeah.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

So I am proud of you for a year of staying on. Good for you, Ava. That's amazing.

[Ava]

Thank you so much. It's been really hard.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

I know it is. I know it is. And I know it's frustrating, especially when you have, like, two weeks or three weeks of feeling great that you're like, oh, I'm. I'm quote, unquote, cured, Which I don't like that kind of language, but, like, I'm Somehow feels, though. I. I know, but it's that. All right, I got. Got to do it again. And I got to do it again. So, man, good for you.

[Ava]

Yeah.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

All right, so what's your question? Get back to reading.

[Ava]

So my question is, is it wrong of me to keep this secret from literally every single person that I know? I feel really, really guilty. Lying to literally everyone close to me. My friends, my partners, my family. It's starting to make me kind of feel like a bad person. But I'm also, like, really, really afraid of, like, the stigma and what people think of me, because I feel like when you think of the word schizophrenia, it's like a really scary word. Like, people think the worst thoughts, you know? I know I did, and I just don't know if I should continue to keep it to myself or. Like, is that okay? I just. I really, really have been struggling with it lately, and I don't know what to do.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

A, you don't owe anybody anything.

[Ava]

Okay?

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Okay. And if you have, I don't know, like, cancer, if you've got any sort of. Any number of things, schizophrenia, you don't owe everyone in the world. We live in a culture now that says because we have social media, you have to tell everybody everything all the time. And if you're not, then somehow you're a liar. And that's false. It's just not true. We don't have any decor anymore.

[Ava]

I feel like I'm lying to people, which is why I feel guilty.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

You are not. Okay.

[Ava]

Okay.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

I want you to, a, Always double down on keeping Ava safe. Okay? And I want to tell you that over time, secrets will kill you. They'll burn a hole through your spirit. And so having people that you can share this with, that you trust and that you care about, especially those who are. You're going to need, if you don't have it already, what I would call an accountability circle. Somebody who can say, hey, have you taken your meds this week? You're going to desperately need that over time. All right?

[Ava]

Okay.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

And so letting people in, not everybody, because that's madness, and not people who are going to use this against you. When you apply for a job, you don't have to say, hi, my name is Ava, and guess what happened to me. Guess what? I. You don't have to do that.

[Ava]

Okay.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

You may, if you're working at a certain kind of place, and talk to the HR director because they keep things confidential and say, hey, I want you. Everybody to know. I want you to know I'm taking medication. I have a diagnostic, and I'm working really hard, and I've got things in. Under control, and I'm working with a. With two sets of professionals. I got a counselor, I got a psychiatrist, and I'm on it. Just want to let you know you could do that if you wanted to, if you felt safe doing that. I would feel safe doing that. Where I work, not everybody has that. And that's okay, right, if you're dating somebody Seriously? Yeah, absolutely. They would. They would need to know. I think that would be honest and fair.

[Ava]

Okay.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

If you have one or two family members that you feel safe with, great. I don't want to paint with a broad brush, but I will. Often, folks with your diagnosis did not come from stable family systems.

[Ava]

No.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Okay. And so it. There may be nobody in your family that's safe, or maybe you have a sibling that's safe, but it may just not make you feel like you can walk on firm footing by all your family knowing. Okay.

[Ava]

Yeah.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

You're not a liar. You are somebody who is taking care of Ava.

[Ava]

Okay.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Okay. Do you have two or three close friends or associates or a romantic partner that you would feel safe telling this to?

[Ava]

Yeah, I would. I'm just afraid.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Okay. The way you described it to me was really well done. I have schizophrenia. I've been diagnosed with schizophrenia. I don't even want to use the word have. I have been diagnosed with a symptom cluster that presents as schizophrenia. I'm going to commit to getting re evaluated every two to three to four years. I've got an incredible team that gave me some great medication that's working amazing. And obviously you didn't even know friend or colleague or family member, you didn't even know. But also, I want to bring you into the inner circle and let you know if you ever see me kind of withdrawing or starting to talk a little bit more about, hey, they're watching us. Right. Or they're listening to us, that you have permission to say, have you taken your medication yet?

[Ava]

Yeah.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Because one of the things that is scary for people who love somebody who maybe is diagnosed with schizophrenia diagnosis bipolar, is they want to love and support, especially when things get tough and they don't have an avenue forward. And so you, when you're well, when you're feeling great and you have a season of taking your meds, you give somebody permission that if you show up and you haven't showered for three or four days, or you haven't slept for three or four days, they have a pre established path already arranged with you on how to lean into that.

[Ava]

Okay.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

And by the way, that will give you an anchor point, a little bit of an exhale, knowing you're not holding this whole thing all by yourself.

[Ava]

Yeah.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

But hear me say this directly. You are not a liar for being careful about who you tell.

[Ava]

Okay?

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Okay. Now you. You told me, do you feel in any way that I've judged you?

[Ava]

No.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Do you feel like I don't like you?

[Ava]

No.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Do you feel like I have communicated any way that there's something wrong with you and that you're not going to be a contributor to our crazy little world we live in?

[Ava]

No.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Okay. Give other people the opportunity to do that, too.

[Ava]

Okay.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

All right. I cannot tell you how proud of you I am.

[Ava]

Thank you.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

And did you get diagnosed by one person or more than one person?

[Ava]

More than one. It was a process. I was misdiagnosed a few times and then they caught it.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Okay. And everybody feels at peace there.

[Ava]

Yeah.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Okay. It is 2025 right now. I want you to put a Little Star in 2027, maybe February or March of 2027.

[Ava]

Okay.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

And I want you to commit with your provider that you want to go through a reevaluation process again.

[Ava]

Okay.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Okay. And here's what that does for you. It keeps your well being and health front of mind, and it's just going to be something you have to hang on to. I. One of my oldest friends in the world is in a wheelchair. He has to think through things like what restaurants I'm going to go to. Do I have access to him. Right. He has to think through parking. He has to think through different things. And I wouldn't wish that on anybody, but that is his reality. And as soon as he can just say, yeah, it's just my life and we're going to. I want to get on about it because I want to go to the concert. Then there's less. It's still inconvenient, but there's that less of that pressure. Right. I have to help him go to the bathroom when we're out. So he has a whole bunch of jokes geared up for when that has to happen. Like we. It's just a process. It just is. Neither of us want that, but it is what it is. And so we make the best of it and then we go onto the show. I want you to have that front of mind because this is just going to be what you. What's in your. In your. In your heart, in your head, in your mind, in your body. It's just going to be a part of your life. And so let's make peace with it and let's go do the next right thing. You know what I'm saying?

[Ava]

Yeah.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

But, dude, awesome. I'm proud of you.

[Ava]

Thank you.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

And can I give you one more thing before I let you go?

[Ava]

Yeah.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

This is just between me and you. Okay.

[Ava]

Got it.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

And a couple of million people listening, but this is just me. And it's just me and you. Okay.

[Ava]

Okay.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

One day. Do you still see a counselor?

[Ava]

Yes.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Okay. I want you to run this by your counselor. So don't take this just from me, but here's an exercise I would love you to consider in your journey to this diagnosis and in your journey to finding the right medication and going in and out of doctor's offices and counselor's office and probably school counselor's office and probably school disciplinary boards and all that mess. I want you to write a letter to 20 year old you and this is a letter of love and forgiveness because you've probably done some things that haunt you, right?

[Ava]

Yes.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Yes. Okay. I want you to forgive her because now that you have some data, that 20 year old you was going through hell and she needed a lot of compassion that nobody around her even knew how to give her. Especially you. Right?

[Ava]

Yeah.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

I want you to make peace with that girl who was struggling and let her know in this letter that 23 year old you, 30 year old you now is on a new track and is doing some amazing things that are going to bring healing to the entire trajectory. Okay?

[Ava]

Yeah.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

I'm proud of you for the journey you've been on and for the work you have done. Gangster Ava. It's awesome. Stay on it, Stay on it and stay on it. I'm proud of you. Thank you so, so much for the call. All right, when we come back, a man is struggling to confront his mother about his past. Everywhere we turn these days, everyone's talking about AI or our data privacy or hacking or whatever. Listen, right now, scammers are using phishing attacks. That's phishing with a ph. They try to trick you into giving them something important or precious, like your data, by pretending to know you. You might get an email, a text, or a phone call, and the person or the AI bot on the other end sounds like someone who's trying to help you out and look out for you. They're not. With the new technological advancements, none of us can keep up, which means none of us is really safe. So what are we supposed to do? First, we're going to start controlling what we can. We're going to learn how to be careful with our digital privacy online and offline. And we're going to sign up with Delete Me. I use and recommend Deleteme because they work in the background of my life to reduce my online presence. And that way I don't have to worry about creepy data brokers having my information without me knowing it and selling it to God knows who. Delete Me has reviewed over tens of thousands of sites for me and they've removed my data from hundreds of them, which has saved me countless hours and a ton of stress. Stop the phishing attacks and the harassment and the other online threats before they even start, and take control of your digital privacy with Delete me. Go to joindeleteme.com Deloney today for 20% off their annual plan that comes out to less than nine bucks a month. That's joindeleteme.com DeLoney go check them out. Let's go out to Baton Rouge, or as Kelly calls it, Baton Rougie, Louisiana, and talk to David. What's up, David?

[David]

Hey, Dr. John.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

What's up, brother?

[David]

Just trying to find out what the next right move is.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Me too, dude, you go first, and then I'll ask you mine. All right, go ahead.

[David]

All right, so I have a question. Should I try to open up about the elephant in the room of my relationship with my mom, even though I know she will probably deny any wrongdoing?

[Dr. John DeLoney]

How old are you?

[David]

I'm 22. 20. 23. Sorry, I forget. I get it mixed up with my wife sometimes. I'm 23.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Okay. And you're married?

[David]

Yes.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Just quick aside, you're married pretty young, which I love. Why'd you decide to get married?

[David]

Well, we kind of grew up in a. A kind of niche, like conservative Christian culture, where it's pretty normal that people are getting married before their 20s.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Is it niche or is it culty or kind of both?

[David]

Maybe a little cultish, but maybe not enough to be an actual cult, but it's cult adjacent.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Okay.

[David]

And I. I don't regret being married that often, that early, and it's been an amazing two years, so.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Oh, two. So you're already two years in.

[David]

Yep.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Wow. Good for you, man. Congratulations.

[David]

Thank you.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

I got. I got married young, too. Not. Not as young as you, but I got married young, too. I. I just. I have. I have a soft spot my heart for it, so. All right, so what's. What's this elephant in the room?

[David]

It's like a lot of past trauma, and I tried to. To think of a way to just answer that quickly, because I know you probably would ask that, but it's more. The more I look at it, the more it's just patterns of the way she treated us. But I did write down some examples, if you would. Want some?

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Yeah, we'll get to those that you wrote down. But you said the word trauma. Give me a couple of bullet points.

[David]

Okay. So it was basically an environment where us, the kids were never good enough, and we would constantly get yelled at and punished for not, you know, cleaning up the way she wanted to. If she was stressed, she would make sure everybody else was upset with that. And then later in life, it ended up leading to my sister leaving the house when she was 19 because of similar issues. And then my mom and her had this conversation that I never heard. You know, I've heard both sides and they both say different things, but basically they're not in contact. And one of the big things that she did was she told me and my little sister that she would kill herself if we ever did what she did. If we ever did what my older sister did.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Is it part of your religious heritage that 19 year olds don't leave the house? That seems common across the board.

[David]

Yes. We grew up in the under, like the IBLP type stuff, where it was like the umbrella of authority. So if you do anything that your parents don't want to, it doesn't matter how old you are, as long as you're not married, you're under your father and mother. And so if they don't want you to move, then you can't move, basically.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Wow, that is a twisting up of the. Honor your father and mother to a new level, which is you do whatever they say for as long as they say it.

[Brent]

Yeah, yeah, that's.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

I hate that for everybody. Yeah. So tell me, tell me why. Oh, let's just say this. No, it. It doesn't. Based on what you've told me, it doesn't make any sense to quote, unquote, confront your mom. Because it. There would be two things at play here. Either you're confronting her because you want to heal this relationship and have her a part of your new marriage and your new life, and if you'll have kids and all that. And it may even be an extension of your religious heritage, which is she still gets a vote in how we run our marriage, which I'll disagree with, but is what y'. All. I mean, y' all do you. There's no. So that's. Number one, I want to heal this thing. And she's proven to you over time that healing or working together or having a. A relationship that is one of equanimity is not anything she desires. She is your boss. She tells you what to do and when to do it and how to do it, and anything other than that results in threats, screaming, yelling, or even threats to take her own life or. The other reason you'd want to do this is because, like, I'm 23, I've been married two years. It's time I Stand up for myself. And I understand that, but I would much rather see you stand up for yourself with your actions and not just say something to have had said it. Does that make sense?

[David]

Yes. Could I add a little bit of context to that?

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Add whatever you want, man. Yeah.

[David]

All right. So about five years ago, I did start, you know, kind of standing up for my side with standing up for myself. And I was in counseling at the time and he told me it was probably a good idea to move in with my dad because they had just recently divorced. And you know, she, she made a lot, she made a lot of assumptions, like when I was bringing things up, like, well, I wouldn't have yelled at you if you were a good, a good kid.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Let me stop you. Let me stop you. Let me stop you. Let's don't go back five years anymore. You're talking about a woman who is unwell, okay? And maybe she was trapped in this religious cult adjacent niche group or whatever, and she has been squashed and silenced and whatever her whole life. And who knows what her dad did to her, right? And so I'm not giving her an excuse, I'm just saying, even going back to those moments, a mother that looks at a kid and says, how dare you get depressed, or maybe you wouldn't be depressed if you weren't such a bad kid, that's the end of the conversation. There's literally nothing else to say there because that in and of itself is. It's so out of bounds it doesn't make any sense to continue the conversation. Yeah. And when you get in, you, when you. I'm going to use a. Gosh, an example I don't like to use here, but it's just the first one that popped into my head, okay? I, I can't even count them. I could probably sit down and get a piece of paper out and count them, but I've had too many students over the years at the universities I've worked at either attempt to take their life or to actually go through with it and die by suicide, okay? And I can't tell you how many people, whether it's parents, siblings, or other students and friends and faculty members etc, who are trying to figure out why, why did this happen? And usually the result of that, I mean, the bottom line of that question is, what did I do wrong? What could I have done? And there are some things people can do, et cetera. But I always used to tell folks, if you're trying to reverse engineer these things, there's not a rational response to an irrational act. And so you're not going to find the math problem, generally speaking, that you can lay over A plus B equaled C here. And so what I want to tell you is it's irrational to look at your teenage son and blame him for his biochemistry and his life experiences. It's irrational to look at a son with anything other than compassion who's hurting as he's heading into a new marriage. It's irrational. And so you trying to find rational responses to that is just a waste of your energy. And it's pulling precious resources, love, time, attention, connectivity from your brand new marriage, man. And I'd love to see you redivert that energy into something productive and making sure this cycle stops with you and your new wife. Do you get what I'm saying?

[Brent]

Yeah.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

And I know this is even more complicated because God has wound all up into this. And by the way, where's your dad and all this?

[David]

My dad is now like separated from him, from her, living separately. And kind of. We've both talked about how we both kind of feel like there's that denial and gaslighting of like. I never said that. I never did that. You're making this up. The devil's using you to attack me. Different things like that.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

So you've got. You've got an unwilling person. You both have experienced the same person. And I would hope with you and your dad, not in a gossiping or attacking kind of way, but you can both realize, oh, we have a shared experience here, we're both not crazy. And once you realize I'm not crazy, then the onus is on you to go do the next right thing. And so based on your past, you've tried this. Your dad has probably tried this over and over. Your sister tried. Now makes you irrational to think that you can sit down and have this magic conversation or this magic confrontation that will produce anything other than more of the same.

[David]

I guess I kind of just want to get rid of the guilt I feel of feeling that way about my mom.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Yeah. The greatest gift, the greatest way to dispose of that guilt is you go through an exercise of mercy, of forgiveness. Forgiveness is for you, not for her. I'm not. I'm no longer mom going to carry all of the cinder blocks you put in my backpack growing up. I'm not carrying them anymore. I'm especially not going to hand them to my new wife to help me carry. And I'm especially not going to hand them to my children. And mercy is just assuming the. The most positive intent I have no idea what you went through, mom. As a little girl in this, in this niche tradition as you call it, I don't know what you went through. I don't know what demons and scars you have, but I am going to opt out of this dance. And so I want you to choose guilt every single time. Because what's going to happen is you're going to start to resent this woman. You probably already are there. And that is an exhausting way to live your life. You get what I'm saying?

[David]

Yeah, I guess I, I half like going over there to her house, a visit. But part of me doesn't like the obvious.

[Brent]

Walls up, right?

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Do you know why you like going over there?

[David]

Because there's still my mom.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Yeah. There's a nine year old boy still wondering what you did that was so bad that she turned on you. There's a little bitty kid inside of your chest trying to solve her. And if you've ever listened to this show, I say, I've said this often, the work you have to do is to let that nine year old boy off the hook. He never did anything wrong. He was nine. He had a dad who didn't get involved to protect him. And he had a mother who was very unwell and he had an oppressive system that said, God set this up this way. That is, that is strike one, strike two, strike three on a little boy trying to make his way in the world. And so your work moving forward is not to try to solve your mom. It's an insolvable problem. Your work moving forward is making sure this never happens again. Here's what that means in real life. That means a, I want you to write that nine year old boy a letter and I want you to read it out loud to your new wife. And I don't want you to skip the part where your dad just ducked his head and let your mom talk to you this way. I don't want you to skip the part in the letter where the church leader said, yes, this is exactly how this is supposed to go. I don't want you to skip the part where your sister broke free and your family system blamed her for it. Okay? I want you to let that nine year old boy go have a good time and you're always going to want to have peace with your mom, that it would be nuts to not want that and you're not going to get it. And there's a lot of grief there because it's not supposed to be that way. Moms are supposed to be ride or die with their boys. Right? You hear what I'm saying?

[David]

Yeah.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

I'm sorry, man. I'm sorry all across the board. But I want you to begin to working, working on your new marriage and talking through, like, those fun, hard, scary, playful conversations that are, who are we going to be in our marriage? Because I don't want to do that. And who are we going to be as parents? Because we're not going to do that. And then you'll have some bigger questions to answer, like, are we going to stay in this. In this faith community that teaches adult children that your main mission in life is to do whatever your mom and dad tell you to do for as long as they tell you to do it, which I'll die on. This hill is different than honoring your father and mother. It just is. And does that mean you have to have a big. I would not recommend a big send off, cut off party here. I just wouldn't. You can do that if you want to. I wouldn't recommend it. What I'd recommend is you and your wife saying, hey, what does Christmas look like this year? What does holidays look like? What does weekly gatherings look like? And when mom calls and says, hey, y' all coming over for lunch today? You say, hey, mom, we already have plans. Thank you so, so much for the invite. We've got plans with some other friends from work, from our community, from our new church. We've got some friends, and so we're going to be hanging out with them. I hope you have a great day. I can't believe you're abandoning me. Oh, thank you for sharing that with me, Mom. I'm gonna let you go, and you're gonna feel that knot in your chest, and you're gonna put your fist in your chest and exhale through it, and it might weigh on you all day. And then you're gonna go hang out and you're gonna practice doing life with new people. When your dad wants to complain about your mom, hey, come on over here. Let's talk about whatever. Hey, dad, where were you, man? Where were you? And have that conversation, too. But I want you to do your best to begin to face towards the future, because the past is what the past is. And going back to conversations you had when you had when you're 18 and going back to conversation you had when you're 13. They're helpful. If you don't know why you feel the way you feel right now as an adult, you do. And so now going back is just a way to hit yourself over and over and over again. And you've been hit enough, man. Emotionally, psychologically, probably physically. It's time to orient yourself to the future, man. Thank you so, so much for the call. I want to help out your new marriage. I'm going to send you the questions for humans couples decks and the intimacy deck. I'll send you several of those things and hook you up with those. I want you to begin building a new marriage, man. I'm excited for what comes next for you. We come back. A man wonders how to reconcile his relationship with his parents and set healthy boundaries. This show is sponsored by BetterHelp. Life can be a mess. Relationships can be hard and work can be chaotic and stressful. And when your relationships and your life and work all collide, your mind and your body feel it. There is a ton of data showing how workplace stress and especially workplace leadership, your boss can have a major impact on your mental and emotional stress. And most of us can't just quit and we can't just take a vacation from work every time we want to or think we need to. But we can start with small steps to help manage our life and our work stress. The first thing we have to do is keep our bodies and relationships strong. And you know the drill. Exercise, sunlight, eating right, relationship check ins and when you need someone to sit with you and help you navigate things moving forward. Getting a great therapist to help walk alongside you can be a game changer. I know because I see a therapist myself. If you're thinking about trying therapy, contact my friends at BetterHelp. BetterHelp is 100% online, which means it's affordable and convenient. And to get started, just fill out a short online survey to get matched with a licensed therapist. And as the largest online therapy provider in the world, BetterHelp can provide access to mental health professionals with a wild, diverse variety of expertise. And BetterHelp has an app store rating of 4.9 out of 5 stars based on over 1.7 million client reviews. So manage your workday challenges with better help. Visit betterhelp.com DeLoney to get 10% off your first month. That's betterhelp. H E L p.com/deloney. All right, Indianapolis, let's talk to Brent. What up, Brent?

[Brent]

What's going on? Dr. John, it's an honor to talk to you.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

It's an honor to talk to you, man. How can I help, Ma'?

[Ava]

Am?

[Brent]

Hey, thanks for taking my call. So, big question I have for you is over the past few years, my wife and I have Been working on boundaries with my parents, just establishing healthy boundaries for us as a family. We have three kids, and my mom has a fairly abrasive personality, let's just put it that way.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

What does that mean?

[David]

And my.

[Brent]

Well, she's fairly toxic in a lot of ways.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

I know, but what does that mean? Give me some examples that.

[Brent]

Well, you know, she. She makes comments to my wife that seem to drive a wedge between us at times.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

I know, dude. You're like, what are they?

[Brent]

Well, you know, if. If, you know, she'll make comments like, you know, that we parent our kids a certain way that makes it obvious she doesn't approve of. Right. Things like we coddle our kids, or, you know, just little comments here and there.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Okay.

[Brent]

You know, issues with them seem to kind of bubble up and smooth over the course of a few years. Right. But recently, they kind of reached a boiling point with me as they left us out of the annual family vacation. So my wife and I have been pretty upset about it, and it's really difficult to be around them and just act like nothing happened. And I'm just looking for a little help on, you know, maybe where do we go from here?

[Dr. John DeLoney]

So I'm taking your word for it. I was trying to pry a little bit, but I'm taking your word for it. That, like saying, like, here's an example.

[Brent]

You're.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

You have a son.

[Brent]

Yes, sir.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

All right, let's say Your son is 4 years old, and son's crying, and y' all are just letting him go to sleep. And mom, are y' all going there to hug him? And mom says, you need to let him cry. And you say, well, we're gonna go there and hug him. Well, y' all just cuddle on that little kid. He's gonna turn into a brat. Right. There's that, which is annoying. And that's kind of some people's, like, personality. But it's my kid. I don't really care.

[Brent]

Right.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

I'm assuming that when you say abrasive and toxic, there's more than just that because that stuff's annoying. And that stuff just. Whatever. I would never let my kid wear that. Or that music they're listening to is. Okay, whatever. You get your opinion. You get your. You could say what you want to say, but you're my parents, and I'm going to move on with my life. I'm. I'm going to take your word that there's probably more than that you just don't want to talk about on air, which is fine. Tell me about what you did when you found out there was this family vacation that they purposely let left you out of. What did you do? Did you call your dad? You call your mom?

[Brent]

I did not. I dude on it for a few days and just, you know, I was, I was really upset by it and sure, very angry, you know, about, about that and at them. You know, we. We saw them a couple. A couple weeks later and, you know, everybody just kind of acted like it didn't happen. You know, someone made a comment like, hey, we missed you guys. And it just felt. It just felt very fake like you, you missed us, but we also didn't get an invite and.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Yeah, but you were fake.

[Brent]

My sisters and I don't have.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

You were fake too, sir, because you went along with it.

[Brent]

Absolutely, I did.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Yeah. And so it's. I, I would guess you're equally disappointed that you got left out for some reason and also equally disappointed in yourself for how, how you respond. Is that fair?

[Brent]

Absolutely. Yeah.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

So do you have a sibling you could call or is your dad somebody that isn't going to fly off at you?

[Brent]

I could probably talk to a sibling or my dad about it, you know, and I've made comments to my, my siblings in the past, you know, like, hey, I would, I would never go on a vacation with, you know, in that scenario, in that situation, you know, with mom and dad or whatever. And, you know, but things change over time and it's. It still feels like, you know, we still not still trying to reconcile why there wasn't even an invite. Right. Because in the past there was more extravagant vacations, right? Cross country trips, you know, out of the country, things like that, that we were just kind of excluded from due to the size of our family and when, you know, the, the stage of life we were in. But that could be my perception too.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

But, but let me paint you a different picture, though, and just, just something to hold intention. Okay? Your mom and your dad, I'm just going to throw them in the same bucket. Even though that may not be fair, your mom and your dad both know that y' all don't appreciate their quips and comments about how you and your wife are parenting. You've told. Even when I told one of your siblings I would never go on one of those vacations, They've not invited you in the past. And the story you've told yourself is because of life circumstances and time.

[Brent]

Well, they had. They have invited us.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Okay. They didn't. Okay, even better. So they have invited you and y' all Said no, and they invited you again and you said no. Is there a possibility that they thought the thing they could give y' all is what you've been asking for for so long, which is to not be out and about with us? Because it sounds like you want to keep getting asked and you want to be the person in the one up position to say no or yes. And maybe they gave you the gift that they think you've been asking for, which is just to be left off the list.

[Brent]

I never thought of it that way.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

I mean, the way you're talking to me, it's like, man, they hooked you up. They didn't bother you with an invite this year. Yeah. And all this to say is the part that concerns me the most is not that it's not. You got left off. It's not that you've said no a whole bunch of times and there's a miscommunication. It's that for whatever reason, you either think your mom and. Or your dad could not have this conversation or you're scared to have this conversation. I. I don't know what the gap is, but the.

[Brent]

I think it's a little of both.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Okay.

[Brent]

I think, you know, it's. My mom is have a personality that it's impossible to have a conversation with her unless, you know, you agree with everything that, you know, she says.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Sure. And that makes her like, that is 90 of mothers across the world. Right. Like all across all planet.

[Brent]

That's fair.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

That's not how you make that meal. That's not how you do that. You like. That's just. That just is. Right. And so, yeah, now I hate you can't have. I hate that you can't have a substantive conversation, but that is what that is. I keep wanting to go back to you, though. What do you want to accomplish by a further conversation? Because it sounds like you and your wife got what you really wanted, which is to be left alone. Yeah.

[Brent]

And I guess I just felt like. I felt like I hurt them some way. Right. Like, did you. I never intended by declining in the past to hurt them. And did I finally hurt my parents enough where like you said, they just left us off the list.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

It might be hurt or it might be when the kid knocks on my door trying to sell me another box of cookies and another box of cookies and I say no every year. I'm not trying to hurt them. I'm just saying, here's my place right now. And then if the person who knocks on my door is trying to sell me cookies Catches me in a low moment, I'll buy the whole thing. All right. I'll eat all of them. Right.

[Brent]

I've listened to your show long enough. I could envision you doing that.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Yeah, I'll hammer them. Dude, I could get after some girl Scout cookies. So all I have to say is, like, it. Here's the. Here's the thought I'm having. You're creating a bunch of stories in other people's heads, and then you're responding to those stories that may or may not be true, and the only path forward is right through the middle of them. And so if you think you hurt your mom and your dad, the. The integrous move is to sit down with your dad, and if your mom can't hear it, great. Sit down with your dad and say, dad, I think I screwed up. You've invited us on three or four or five different family vacations, and I've told you no every time. And this year, I was kind of gunning and ready to go, and y' all didn't invite me, and I Invite me. And I realize y' all probably didn't invite me because I've made it clear I don't want to go. And I messed that up, man. And I'm sorry about that. If that's what you really believe.

[Brent]

Well, I think there's more layers, just like anything. Right. And part of the problem, I think, with me is I still become that old me that I hate when I'm around them. Right. My wife and I have done a lot of work through counseling and through, you know, just trying to be better than what our human nature allows when we're parenting and things like that. And for some reason, when I'm around the family, it seems like I'm that child again.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

So can I challenge the work you've done?

[Brent]

Yeah.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

So what I would suggest is maybe I'll have done a lot of discovery, a lot of uncovering. What I would challenge you is. Is the real work is now continuing to show up. If that's. If that's what you want to do in practicing being somebody new. Yeah. And I. Yeah, dude. It's brutal. It's brutal. It's brutal. Constantly saying in your mind, you don't get a vote. I love you, and you don't get a vote. I love you. And your guilt or your anger or your rage is for you to hold on to. I can't hold it for you. All of that's hard. But that. That is work 2.0. I want you to do this I actually was working with a married couple recently. I did this exact same thing. I want you to get a picture of your mom and put it in a small frame. I want you to get a picture of your dad and put it in a small frame. Okay? And I want you to put it on your desk at home, maybe even put it. Go out on a date with your wife and put it at the table. Put those pictures up, and I want you to cut eyes at them and say, hi, mom and dad, we've invited you on this date to get your opinion on what we're going to do this summer. And little Jimmy is struggling with sleeping, and so we invited you to the table to drop your opinions in on what's happening. And when you do that, you'll realize how silly the whole thing is. And there's a physical practice of taking that picture and putting it down and saying, I love you. But you don't get a vote here. Every time you're about to yell at your wife or your kids on the way to Grandma's house, pull that picture out and say, hey, mom, this one's for you. Hey, dad, this one's for you. And the data says that that sort of interaction, the yelling, it evaporates because you realize I am geared up with nothing to do with my wife and my lovely kids.

[Brent]

Right?

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Right. But there's something about carrying those pictures around and letting them, like, hey, mom and dad, we have three kids, and we're trying to reimagine our sex life. We want to invite y' all to this conversation, and you'll both go, gross. No, you don't get a vote, and you turn the pictures down, or maybe you take them off the table completely, and then, hey, we are doing a budget this month, and we're trying to figure out between getting new shoes and whatever, and we wanted to invite you all to this conversation. No, y' all don't get a vote on this one. Hey, we're thinking about getting a dog. What do you guys know? You don't get a vote. Hey, we're thinking about coming on Christmas. We don't have the money this year. We're exhausted. We're not gonna. We don't get a vote on this one. And it's just a form of practice. Just a form of practice. But you've done. You've done the. What I would call the discovery work, and it's hard work. Like when you dig through past conversations and you sit with a therapist and you talk about it, and you and your wife spin over and over. And she says, I don't really want to do this. And you're like, all right, I'm going to tell them we can't make the trip this year. You're. You're starting the discovery practice now. I want you to enact it. And if you don't want to enact it, ask yourself, why am I so. At 40 years old, almost halfway through my life, why am I still inviting people who have hurt me so badly to the table to ask their opinion on what I do next? And you're gonna have to do one of two things. Either begin to practice work 2.0, which is acting your way through this and feeling it and choosing. I want to yell right now, and I'm not going to because it's not about them, or, hey, kids, we're all going on our own vacation this year. And where's Grandma and Grumps? Where's Grandma? And my. My dad is. My kids call my dad Grumps. And so that's why I just slipped out there. But where's Grandma and Granddad? Like, where are they? Well, we're taking our own family vacation. What do you guys want to do? And we're going to begin planning that way. But you get to decide those paths. What I would tell you is just sitting where you are with your foot on the gas, just spinning and thinking and thinking and thinking and feeling and feeling and thinking. It's just digging a deeper hole. And I want you to begin moving forward. Thanks for calling, my brother. Proud of you. We'll be right back. All right, Kelly, so you have an article you want to share with me?

[Ava]

Yes.

[Kelly]

So I found this article that I thought was really interesting, given some of the calls we take on the show, that more than half of the top 100 mental health TikToks contain misinformation.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Gosh, I would have thought it was higher than that. Over half of them read the top couple of lines in that article.

[Kelly]

Well, so this says that out of 100 videos, that this is from the Guardian, that The Guardian took 100 videos to share them with psychologists, psychiatrists, and academic experts. And 52 of the 100 videos offering advice on dealing with trauma, neurodivergence and anxiety, depression, and severe mental illness contained some misinformation and that many others were just vague or unhelpful.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

So I wonder if one of my videos.

[Kelly]

Great, 52 of the 100 were wrong, and more than that were just vague or unhelpful because it talks about how poor people are turning to mental or to social media for mental health. And that most of these videos, or I'll not say most, a lot of them, have these quick fix claims. And it says those seeking help are confronted with dubious advice such as eating an orange in the shower to reduce anxiety. I'd never heard of that one.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

You haven't? Duh.

[Kelly]

Clearly I should. The promotion of supplements with limited evidence base for alleviating anxiety, methods to heal trauma within an hour. Did you know you could heal it that.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

No. Yeah. Nope.

[Kelly]

And guidance presenting normal emotional experiences as a sign of borderline personality disorder or abuse. That's scary. That was frightening.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Well, I'm kind of in a catch 22 here because I have a show that goes out on the Internet. I guess I would hope that anyone who listens to this show don't think any of this stuff is a quick fix. Right. And I guess what I would tell you is if you are googling or you're scrolling through Tik Tok or through any of these social media platforms, we. Let me put it this way. I use social media as a point back to a show, this show, so you can hear the whole show and that hopefully would point back to a book that gives you like a long walkthrough about how to pull some of this stuff apart. Anybody who says you can heal from some of these things in five minutes or 30 minutes or just do these two quick things or. I've always pushed back and you can scrub social media that I'm on, you're never going to see me say the five hacks for. I just don't believe in any of that stuff. And so yeah, that's tough, tough, tough, tough, tough. Because I'm in that ecosystem. But I'm trying to be a voice of reason in that ecosystem. I guess I would just ask anybody who's struggling if your body is anxious or your body's depressed or your body is trying to get your attention all the time. Don't go to TikTok for a solution. It's just a. Don't go to any of these social media platforms for any sort of solution. What you may go for is a reference point where is somebody I can trust. And it, I mean, Kelly, it's just a. Such a mess, some going there sometimes. I mean you can. Eggs are good. Eggs will kill you. Eggs have cholesterol. Just eat the white parts of the eggs. Just. It's just so hard to get any sort of good information there. Yeah, I don't, I don't know that I have a Great. I don't know. What's the solution? What do you think?

[Kelly]

I don't think that.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Well, I don't ever do diagnostic information on those on the channels and so may. How about this? Anybody who says this, the hacks nobody wants you to know or the secret to or the what, the what? Big, big whatever, fill in the blank. Food, pharma, media, what they don't want you to know, then you're probably getting nonsense. Or if anybody says you how to fix a psychological issue or an emotional challenge in one hour, in two minutes, it's nonsense. It's going to be nonsense. Sorry I cut you off. Kelly, what do you think?

[Kelly]

No, I think it's just. I mean you can talk about mental health on there, but there's no quick fixes.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

No.

[Kelly]

There's no eating an orange in the shower. I don't.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Don't eat in the shower.

[Kelly]

Yeah. Ew, that's weird.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

But I mean it's not super weird. I may have done that before but like don't make it a practice.

[Kelly]

Right.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

But I don't know, it was therapeutic but I was eating ice cream and I was sad. Right. It was making me feel better in the moment but it was had long term negative frame of patience.

[Kelly]

I mean sometimes it's good to know to go to. I understand the pull of social media and that, you know, you're not alone and there's a community to be found and I'm not the only one that feels this way. And maybe someone has some ideas as far as you should go see someone who helps with this or here's something that has helped me more sleep, finding a group or whatever. But these with most things in life, finances, relationships, anything. There's no quick fix.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

No. And by the way, you don't want a quick fix.

[Kelly]

No. Because that means you're not doing the work.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Yes. And that means that your body is just going to try to solve this problem in another way. So yeah, I guess. What is it? Is it Chris Williamson, my buddy Chris, or maybe Lane Norton? Dr. Norton says like your healing is in the work, that you're scared or afraid or unwilling to do that. There is no quick solution. Dealing with anxiety is really taking a life inventory and sitting with people and saying things out loud. Dealing with grief takes months or years and you have to be brave and say it out loud. As the woman in this show earlier who's dealing with schizophrenia takes tons of stops and starts and painful experiences and decisions you wish you could have back and broken relationships to finally exhale and plateau on a place where now I've got to do the work the rest of my life, man. Getting well is an advantage venture. And just anyone who tries to sell you a hack to that is just selling you that hacks, they're not real. Stay with us. And just remember, you're worth the long journey. Love you guys.

[Ava]

Bye.