My Husband Lied About His Relationship With a Coworker

Summary

---

Podcast Summary: The Dr. John Delony Show

Episode: My Husband Lied About His Relationship With a Coworker
Date: November 26, 2025
Podcast Network: Ramsey Network
Host: Dr. John Delony

---

Episode Overview

This caller-driven episode navigates some of the most challenging issues in relationships and mental health, with Dr. John Delony providing candid, compassionate advice. Major topics include chronic dishonesty in marriage, boundaries in dating where financial imbalance exists, and navigating family relationships after a loved one comes out as transgender. Dr. Delony’s style is direct, empathetic, and often encourages self-reflection, personal agency, and clear boundaries.

---

1. Caller Anne: My Husband's Chronic Lying and Flirty Texts

[00:25] – [13:00]

Key Discussion Points:

• Anne describes discovering flirty and potentially suggestive texts between her husband and a female coworker. He initially lied about the sender's identity, then admitted to it when pressed.
• Anne’s husband has a long history of telling “little lies,” which she initially dismissed but now sees as part of a pattern.
• Despite therapy and promises of change, these minor untruths persist, deeply undermining Anne’s trust.

Memorable Quotes & Insights:

• Dr. John Delony (03:33): “Why do you think so little of yourself?”
  • He challenges Anne to consider her self-worth and why she tolerates chronic dishonesty.
• Dr. John Delony (04:25): “Those aren’t flirty texts. Those are like, let’s go hook up texts.”
• Anne (05:12): “I don’t believe he did anything more. There was nothing physical that happened. It was the lying. It was the not protecting our marriage.”
• Dr. John Delony (07:52): “You don’t. You live with a pathological liar... You’re gonna either have to make peace with it...or draw some sort of ‘or what’ statement.”
• On boundaries: Anne is repeatedly encouraged to stop minimizing and to either accept her husband’s lying or make a clear demand for change, with consequences if trust is broken again.

Dr. Delony’s Actionable Advice:

• Pull both credit reports annually (“Just be sure there’s nothing you don’t know about.”) [09:17]
• Emphasizes two choices: make peace with continuous lying or enforce a hard boundary (“If you lie to me again, I’m leaving.”) [08:31]
• Suggests shifting response language: “Instead of ‘that’s not true,’ say, ‘You are a liar, and it hurts me that you make up something stupid about apples.’” [11:43]
• Calls out enabling behavior ("Rolling over has worked for y’all. Y’all raised a kid, but I couldn’t live like that.") [11:55]

---

2. Caller Melissa: Financial Power Imbalances and Boundaries in Dating

[16:56] – [34:35]

Key Discussion Points:

• Melissa is in a relationship marked by differences in financial stability: she’s the provider, while her boyfriend is in grad school and financially stressed.
• She feels “emotionally undernourished” and wonders whether to wait for her boyfriend to become more available or to view this imbalance as a sign of incompatibility.
• Melissa routinely lends him money and provides logistical and emotional support but is feeling increasing resentment.

Memorable Quotes & Insights:

• Dr. John Delony (19:22): “There’s one big one... Women are attracted to somebody with some sort of potential or with a plan... But if you’ve given him a roadmap [for what you want emotionally] and he says ‘I don’t care,’ then that’s going to be the rest of your life.”
• On Boundaries (23:47): “I don’t ever loan people I care about money. Ever. I’ll give it, or I’ll say no.”
• Dr. John Delony (29:31): “Vulnerability and scary and courage and bravery is, ‘Hey, I want you.’... Needs are a way we take our internal cinder block and hand it to somebody else and say, ‘You make my emotional regulation and my choices and my feelings—it’s your job now’ instead of saying ‘I want.’”
• On Compatibility (31:41): “When it comes to intimate relationships... the question that matters is: Will you go all in? And I will go all in. And the moment somebody starts to feel like, ‘Hey, I'm going all in, and you're not, or you’re using me for rent money...’ that’s not compatibility. That’s, ‘Will you or won’t you?’”

Dr. Delony’s Actionable Advice:

• Shift from “needs” to “wants”—claim agency in what you hope for in the relationship instead of issuing demands (29:31).
• Document the financial and logistical support you provide (“Write it down, so emotions don’t get wrapped up in it.”) [26:41]
• Establish and communicate clear boundaries and expectations moving forward.
• Use the frustration as a signal to re-examine whether the relationship dynamic is genuinely what Melissa wants long-term.

---

3. Caller Sean & Madison: Navigating Family Dynamics After a Sibling Comes Out as Transgender

[34:36] – [53:32]

Key Discussion Points:

• Sean’s brother came out as a transgender woman via text, asking for new pronouns and a name and establishing no-contact with their parents after their harsh reaction.
• Sean and Madison (his wife) want to maintain a relationship but are caught between supporting his sibling and their own values and pain from past familial hurt.
• Sean is hesitant to respond, Madison urges compassion and fears further division.

Memorable Quotes & Insights:

• Dr. John Delony (37:14): “The framework that I use for everything... I’m a Christian, and Jesus shows up with hurting people, and so will I. Anytime somebody comes out... the first response, always, I give is ‘I love you. Thank you for sharing that with me.’ Period.”
• On Giving Grace (38:37): “Anytime I had college students coming out... I would always say: Your parents get some time... everything they thought they understood is suddenly different.”
• Dr. John Delony (43:24): “No ideology is hurt... if they call somebody and say, ‘I love you. Thank you for sharing.’”
• Dr. John Delony to the couple (46:47): “Here's what I'm hearing... Madison, I’m reeling with ‘I didn’t expect this of you.’... And the other side... Sean is thinking, ‘You too? I thought you were my ride or die.’... This kind of tension is okay and normal in a marriage, but unspoken is what causes big problems.”
• Madison (45:23): “I feel like there’s been a lack of response, and I don’t want to push someone away... I just wish we could just talk to him and call him, I guess.”

Dr. Delony’s Actionable Advice:

• Respond directly with love and appreciation for the sibling’s vulnerability (“I love you. Thank you for sharing this with me.”).
• If maintaining relationship comes at the cost of one’s boundaries, communicate those respectfully, accepting the risk that it may not be received well.
• Use these moments as an opportunity for marital growth—speak honestly about your own needs and feelings and avoid secrets and unspoken resentments.
• On family values: “From this, if y’all will agree we’re never going to keep secrets, and when I have a big feeling... I’ll be honest with you about them. That’s going to help you all iron sharpen iron.” [53:26]

---

4. Other Notable Moments

Quote on Trauma (58:17):

Caller shares, “I vividly remember when I was 6 and my dad almost murdered my sister. As an aside, my therapist told me that that wasn’t trauma since it didn’t happen to me.”

• Dr. John Delony (58:46): “If your dad tries to murder your sister, everybody in the club gets trauma. Everybody.”

---

Important Timestamps

• [00:25] Anne discusses her husband’s flirty texts and lies
• [03:33] Dr. Delony asks Anne a pivotal self-worth question
• [07:52] Dr. Delony: Accept or set clear ultimatum about lying
• [16:56] Melissa introduces her relationship's financial and emotional imbalance
• [23:47] Dr. Delony on money and emotional boundaries in relationships
• [29:31] On the language of “wants” vs. “needs” in intimacy
• [34:36] Sean and Madison discuss sibling’s transition and family fallout
• [37:14] Dr. Delony’s framework: compassion first, boundaries second
• [45:23] Madison voices her struggle to Sean
• [46:47] Dr. Delony analyzes the marital dynamic and communication needs
• [53:26] Advice on honest feelings and marital unity

---

Summary Takeaways

• On Infidelity & Lying: Chronic dishonesty, even over trivial things, erodes trust and must be addressed with firm boundaries and a clear sense of self-worth.
• On Power Imbalances in Dating: Repeated financial and emotional support without reciprocation leads to resentment; defining and respecting personal boundaries is crucial for healthy intimacy.
• On Family and Identity Change: When facing shocking news from family, lead with compassion and love, establish and communicate your own boundaries, and strive for honest communication within your marriage and larger family relationships.
• General Wisdom: Dr. Delony emphasizes the importance of self-examination, clear boundaries, vulnerability, and the courage to ask not just what you “need,” but what you “want.”

---

This summary captures the central themes, advice, and emotional impact of the episode, with direct quotes and timestamps for clarity and ease of reference.

Transcript

[Dr. John DeLoney]

All right, let's talk about your marriage. Right now we have February and October weekends on sale for the money in Marriage Getaway. It's the best marriage retreat on the planet. Tickets start at 749 bucks a couple. Get [e-mail] getaway.

[Caller Anne]

How do I trust my husband again after his phone went off? And I looked over at it and I saw it with a female co worker. I hey, you got a text. And he looked at it, dismissed it, And I said, oh, well, who was it? And he said, a different name, a guy's name.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Okay, this is a hard question I'm about to ask you.

[Caller Madison]

Okay.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

What's going on? What's going on? This is John with the Dr. John DeLoney Show, Nashville, Tennessee. I'm a real person, not an AI bot taking calls from real people about real things that are going on in their lives. If you want to be on this show, talk about your mental and emotional health, your marriage, whatever you got going on, your kids, the world out there that has lost its mind, go to johndelony.com ask for you youngsters. That's a website and it's not on the Internet. I mean, it's not on the Instagrams. It's on the Internet. John deloney.com/a S K. Love to have you on the show. Let's go out to Pittsburgh, Pennsylvan, Pennsylvania, and talk to Anne. What's up, Anne?

[Caller Anne]

Hi, how are you?

[Dr. John DeLoney]

I'm great. How are you?

[Caller Anne]

I'm good. Glad to be talking to you.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

You do? What's up?

[Caller Anne]

My question is, how do I trust my husband again after he was engaging in some flirty texts with a co worker? And he still has a. And he always did have a habit of lying about stuff.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

What happened.

[Caller Anne]

So he's always told little lies, and I thought they weren't a big deal, and they were. This happened last year. We were. We were in the car, it was his birthday, and he went out to get. Get out to get gas. His phone went off, he got a text. And I looked over at it and I saw it was a co worker, female coworker, which I didn't think anything of it. When he got back in the car, I said, hey, you got a text. And he looked at it, dismissed it, and I said, oh, well, who was it? And he said, a different name, a guy's name. And so I didn't do any. I didn't react at that time because I was shocked.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Okay, why not? Why didn't you say something right Then I think.

[Caller Anne]

I think also it was his birthday, too. We were out of town. I think I just didn't want to cause problems. Okay.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

But the problem had been caused.

[Caller Anne]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

I guess what I'm pushing on is he's been doing this to you for years, and you don't ever call him on it.

[Caller Anne]

Yeah. Yeah. When I. When I do call him on it, it usually turns on me.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

What does that mean?

[Caller Anne]

He'll tell me that, you know, why am I causing problems? Why am I picking a slate? Or he'll tell me, you know, to drop it, stop digging for stuff. Why am I. It always gets turned on me. Or he'll completely deny something. If it's little lies, he'll deny it. And he'll just say that, you know, he forgot or, you know, that didn't happen, that I see things wrong.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Okay. This is a hard question I'm about to ask you.

[Caller Anne]

Okay.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Why do you think so little of yourself?

[Caller Anne]

I don't know.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

You're worth so much more than this.

[Caller Anne]

Yeah.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

So much more.

[Caller Anne]

Yeah. Yeah. I don't know.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

What did the text messages say when you read them?

[Caller Anne]

They were just flirty text messages.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Give me an example. You have to earn my trust back. Because you sound like a minimizer.

[Caller Anne]

Yeah, I am. I am. I. I think they were. It's been a while. It was, you know, meet me down at Hall City, whatever. Meet me here, meet me there. Just flirty texts.

[Caller Madison]

What I call.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Those aren't flirty texts. Those are like, let's go hook up text.

[Caller Anne]

That's what I thought. That's exactly what I thought.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Flirty text is, oh, my gosh, you looked great in that shirt.

[Caller Anne]

Yeah.

[Caller Madison]

Or there were some of that, too.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

You have a great butt in those pants.

[Caller Anne]

Yeah. Yeah, there was some of that, too, from different people.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

But, like, hey, meet me over here. That's. That's not flirty. That's the next line.

[Caller Anne]

Yeah, I. And I don't think anything happened. We have been to therapy when we saw her separately, and she believes him, that she don't think anything happened. He did stop it immediately when I talked to him about it. When I did finally confront him about it, I. He. You know, he admitted to it. He said that he knew what he was doing was wrong. He don't know why he did it. And that's, you know, he was deleting the messages. I found them in the deleted folder. And I think that's why it bothers me even more. I don't believe he did anything more. There was nothing Physical that happened. It was the lying. It was the not protecting our marriage, knowing he was doing something wrong. Wrong and didn't protect us. Didn't stop it. When I did confront him, he stopped it. He did go in and he told her, stop texting him. My wife saw this. She didn't appreciate it. She don't think it's funny. And it has stopped. It did stop immediately.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Okay, this happened a while ago. Why are you calling me today?

[Caller Anne]

Because I still have trouble trusting him. Whenever the little lies still happen about little things, stupid things, then it just takes me right back.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Give me an example.

[Caller Anne]

Like, I have a lie. So I guess recently I was out of town. We have cameras in the house. One of the cameras went off. I looked to see what it was, and he was getting apples out of the refrigerator. We have an apple tree. We had some extra apples. And he was going to his mom's house, and I was like, oh, he's taking apples to his mom. And just the other day I went down to get some of those apples and they were almost gone. I was like, oh, where'd all the apples go? He's like, I don't know. We must ate them. He never has not. He wouldn't tell me something stupid. And I took him to my mom, gave my mom some. Like, those are the types of lies. And he'll just say, I don't know. Or if I would say, well, I saw you on the camera taking them to your mom. He'll say, why were you looking at the cameras, at me? Or, you know, oh, I forgot. Oh, I. Oh, I did. I forgot. I gave her some. He'll just always. There's always an excuse. Yeah. And I think this may come I. His mom's. She lies about everything. So I think it's the way he was raised.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Yeah, but it doesn't matter. He lives with you. Do you all have kids?

[Caller Anne]

Yeah. Grown. We're empty nesters.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Does he lie to his kids?

[Caller Anne]

Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. He's. He's where they were growing. My son was growing up. He would throw a toy away or something that, you know, he didn't and we'd find in the garbage. Why'd you throw it away? He's like, oh, I thought he didn't want it anymore. Like, yeah, he did like things. And he does have some ocd, so I think those.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Yeah, but it doesn't matter. I do too. Doesn't give me permission to lie.

[Caller Anne]

Yeah, I know. And I. I constantly make excuses for him.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Yeah, you have to stop doing that. I mean, you don't have to stop doing anything. If, if. Let me ask you this. Like, how can I help you? What are you looking for?

[Caller Anne]

How do I get. How do I get past this? How do I get past all the lying?

[Dr. John DeLoney]

You don't. You live with a pathological liar.

[Caller Anne]

Yeah.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

It's not something you're gonna. You're gonna either have to make peace with it. This is just the guy I live with. I've been married to him for a long time. We've had a life together. He's gonna keep lying to me.

[Caller Melissa]

Yeah.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

I'm always gonna have that little nagging question in the back of my mind. Did he cheat or not? Like, because you'll never know because you don't trust any. Anything little, big, small, massive, whatever. He just does what he wants to do, whenever he wants to do it, and if somebody says anything to him, he just flips it around on them.

[Caller Anne]

Yeah.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

And so either make peace with that or you have to draw some sort of or what statement. If you lie to me again, I'm leaving.

[Caller Melissa]

Okay.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Because there's no incentive for him to change his behavior.

[Caller Anne]

Yeah.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Does your. Does his son. Does it. Your son want to be around him?

[Caller Anne]

Oh, yeah. Yeah, we are. And he. He jokes with him about it. Says, oh, yeah, we know that's a lie. You know, here he goes again. He said he's lying again. You know, then in some sense it has become a joke because it's been stupid stuff.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Yeah. But it's not funny for you.

[Caller Anne]

No, it's not. It's not. And it used to be, but until it become a big thing.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Do you know, here's where my head goes. And I don't want to create problems where there's not any, but here's where my head goes. Do you regularly, like on an annual basis, pull both of Yalls credit reports to see what's out there? Do you know, do you have access?

[Caller Anne]

I'm the only one that does our finance. I'm the only one that does our finances.

[Caller Sean]

So.

[Caller Anne]

Yeah, he doesn't even.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Okay, so you have access to the retirement accounts and stuff like that?

[Caller Anne]

Yeah, yeah, I have access to everything. Yeah, I handle all of that.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

I would still pull his credit report, though.

[Caller Anne]

Yeah, I do.

[Caller Melissa]

That's.

[Caller Anne]

Yeah, he don't.

[Caller Madison]

I do.

[Caller Anne]

Okay.

[Caller Melissa]

Yeah.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

I wouldn't do it behind his back, but I, I. Yeah, yeah. I mean, there's not a lot you could do here without making a big or what statement. I just don't want to live with the liar or I'M going to call you on every single one of these. And every time you turn it around on me, it's going to become a big deal because I'm worth more than this. You've been doing this my entire marriage. How long y' all been together? 20 plus years?

[Caller Anne]

Yep.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Yeah.

[Caller Anne]

Yep. 20, 22. Yeah.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

I mean, he has to do this at work too, huh?

[Caller Anne]

Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. That. It's. I've seen it with everybody. Anybody's around. Like I said, his mom does it too. They like to flip things to make things look better or even just to be funny about it or for him, how he does stuff that they try to be funny.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

But humor is his way of trying to pretzel his way out of getting caught. Right?

[Caller Anne]

Yeah, exactly. Exactly. And I think he's done it. He had to do that growing up to survive. He has a narcissistic mother. I've even had to do it with her. You know, you have to lie to just diffuse things with her?

[Dr. John DeLoney]

I don't think so. I mean, you can just not be in a relationship with her.

[Caller Anne]

Yeah, I do stay away at this point, but yeah.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Yeah. It's a rock and a hard place. Have you ever sat down and said, it hurts me when you are not honest?

[Caller Anne]

Yeah.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

What does he say?

[Caller Anne]

And he says, he says he's going to fix it. I've even. He's going to work on it. I've even given him. I've heard you say about your 24 hour role with your students. I've even give him, gave him that scenario, given him 24 hours to come back and tell me the truth and it won't be held against them. And he says, okay, but it's never happened. And that was months ago that I said that. And I know he's lied since then.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Yeah. It's just going to be you deciding this is the way this is or I'm worth more than this. And I don't want to live the rest of my life with a liar. And of course I can't make that choice for you. I would recommend though, or let me say it this way, if this was my life, maybe I'm not going to leave you. I will call you on every single lie, every single one. And I won't say, hey, that's not true. I will say, hey, you are a liar today. And it hurts me that you made up something stupid about apples. Oh, why are you even looking on the camera? Because I don't trust you. You are untrustworthy as my husband because you don't tell me the truth. That's why I check the cameras. Because still to this day, I don't know if a coworker is going to be sneaking into the house while I'm out of town. That's why I look. Any other questions? And there's a boldness there. It's you regaining agency. It's you deciding I'm worth more than just rolling over every time. But here's the thing. Rolling over has worked for y'. All. Y' all raised a kids. I mean, you. You can do what you want to do. Just the thought of that, of having somebody in my house that I can't trust at all, ever. I just. I couldn't live like that. But everybody's different. Sorry I can't help more than that, Ian, but I don't think there's a lot of tips and tricks on how to get. Get a. You know, get around this. This is just an elephant inside your living room. And it might be that you bring in some straw and say, this is where you're going to live, or it might be that you knock out the back wall and say, as for me, in my house, we're not gonna have an elephant living inside. It's your move. Thank you for the call. We come back, a woman asks how to tell if her and her boyfriend are compatible or incompatible, despite their differences. All right, gang, I got big news. If you've listened to my show for any period of time, you know that I'm always talking about the importance of sleep, and I've been honest about my personal struggles with sleep. I'm thrilled to announce that I've joined forces with the makers of what I think is the best sleep solution that I. That I've ever found. My friends at BEAM have created the amazing Nighttime Dream Powder. I was so impressed after taking Beam's Dream Powder, I even called a few of my neighbors who are former athletes at the professional and Olympic level. They're the ones who told me about beam. And the night after I took it, I went over and talked to him. I was like, guys, is this for real? And they both shared similar experiences with me. Beam's Nighttime Dream Powder can dramatically improve your sleep and ultimately change your life. It's made with proven ingredients like magnesium, theanine, epigenin, melatonin, reishi, and other compounds that your body actually uses and recognizes for a good night's sleep. And it's delicious. Here's the kicker. When you take Beams Nighttime Dream Powder, you wake up sharp, not groggy Right now my listeners get early access to Beam's cyber sale up to 50% off. With my code Deloney you can get all of this. You can snag dream for just $32.50 a bag. That breaks down to like a dollar a night. For great sleep, go to shop beam.com deloney and use my Code Deloney for the greatest night of sleep of your life. Go check them out. Don't miss it. I have three dogs that I love and I've been that guy calling a bunch of different veterinarians looking for help because something is wrong with one of my beloved dogs and it's hard to find an appointment anywhere. It can be stressful. And listen, if you love your pets, you've been there too. You just want someone you trust to help with your pet before whatever's going on gets worse. That's why I love Dutch. Dutch is the leading pet telehealth Service. Gives you 24. 7 access to a licensed veterinarian anytime, anywhere. Dutch can treat over 150 common pet conditions, giving you expert care in minutes with no waiting rooms and no long waits to get in. With a 10 minute call from your home, you can be on your way to a treatment plan right away. The Dutch membership covers up to five pets, plus you get unlimited visits, unlimited follow ups and prescriptions shipped free. And with my code, all of this is less than seven bucks a month. The average pet owner saves over $800 a year with Dutch. If you have ever felt helpless trying to get care for your pet, Dutch gives you the peace of mind that you've been looking for. Go to Dutch.com DeLoney and use code DeLoney to get $50 off a year of vet care. Again, that's Dutch.com DeLoney and use Code Deloney. All right, let's go out to Bost a lag and talk to Melissa. That wasn't very good box Boston accent. Sorry about that, Melissa. Pretty insulting actually. What's up?

[Caller Melissa]

Hey, Dr. DeLoney.

[Caller Anne]

Thanks for taking my call.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

You. You got it. What's up?

[Caller Melissa]

So I'm calling because I'm in a relationship between my boyfriend and I. There seems to be a bit of a life stage and financial imbalance and I'm just looking for some advice about whether it's something to be patient with or if it's a sign of incompatibility. Tell me about it so I can give you a bit of backstory. Sure. So he's a great guy. He's really hardworking, he's loving, he Works full time. He's in grad school at the same time. He's living paycheck to paycheck right now, and he doesn't have a ton of wiggle room financially. I'm in a spot where I'm more financially stable, and I found myself providing tangible support for him throughout our relationship.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

What does that mean? You pay his light bill or you pay for dinner?

[Caller Melissa]

It's like, dinner. He's asked me to borrow money at times. He's asked me for money, hasn't given it back. He's needed rides, like, if his car breaks down and stuff like that. He's asked to use my tech, stuff, like if he doesn't have a laptop or stuff like that. So it's been feeling like I'm giving a lot in those ways, and I'm starting to feel kind of emotionally undernourished, and I don't know if it's something to wait it out. I do. I did talk to him, and he's. He's definitely expressed that he's anxious about his financial circumstances, which I think has contributed to him not being able to be as emotionally present because he's just trying to make things work.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Hmm. So what's your question?

[Caller Melissa]

I guess my question is, is this something that's worth waiting out with a person, or do you just leave? I think the things that matter as far as character and all those things align for me.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Except one big one, though. I don't think you're being fully honest with yourself. There's one big one, which is like the. The. The literature tells me that women are. Again, this is generalizable. So it's not everybody. Right. But women are attracted to somebody with some sort of potential or with a plan. And the thought that he is a very hard worker, that he's in graduate school, he's got some trajectory here. I can see that on one side. The other side is like. And there's a. You use the words emotionally undernourished. That sounds very northeastern of you. That's awesome way to put that. But, like, he's not there for you. And so my first question would be, are you. Have you given him a road map to what, quote, unquote, being there for you? Looks like I have, because he might think the best way to her heart is to get out of grad school and go earn some more money so that I can. I can provide for us. And if you said, no, no, I just want you to sit on the couch and watch Brooklyn Nine nine with me. Like, like. Or I want you to go out to dinner. We'll go to Arby's, for crying out loud. But I just want to hear how your day was. I want to learn about you then. If you've given him that road map and he says I don't care, then I think you have to deal with that because that's going to be the rest of your life.

[Caller Melissa]

Right.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

And that's you being honest about. I like him. I think he's great, he's fun, he's this and that. But I've given him a roadmap and he's like, yeah, I'm not taking that map.

[Caller Melissa]

Is it valid though, that his like the immediate stressors are causing him to not be as present? Because I have given him the roadmap and we've talked about it a few times.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

I mean, stress, yes, is definitely plays a role in things, but my hope would be that you, if y' all are building something together relationally, that you become each other's safe place. Like, that's what intimacy is. It's a secret world that two people create together to where when the world gets heavy and the bills are coming, when I do drop my shoulders, I drop them into you. Not that you're another stressor on top of my other stressors.

[Caller Melissa]

Right. And I think that's the place that I've been in that it's. It has started to feel like a stress for me because of the different needs that he's had that he's come to the table with. And he hasn't necessarily been able to provide that emotional connection and attention that I want because it is stuff that's as simple as let's hang out and you not be looking at whatever game is on, on your phone, but let's okay that actually pay attention.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Yeah, that's not emotional stress. If you're telling me that your needs aren't being met because he's working 20 hours a day between graduate school and two full time jobs, then I would tell you he might be a guy worth investing in over the long haul. If he's stressed and busy and y' all go out and he just looks over your shoulder at the game and stares at his phone the whole time, then I. You can't blame stress on that. That's avoidance.

[Caller Melissa]

Right.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

But I think the other thing here is you're. Maybe I'm gonna try to. Can I just, can I say it super direct? And if, if we're like in a counseling or coaching context, I'd say this much softer than I'm about to say it, but just due to time. Is that cool?

[Caller Melissa]

Yeah.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Your lack of personal boundaries is making you uncomfortable or unhappy, and it's easier to blame him for crossing lines that he doesn't know about. For instance, I don't ever loan people I care about money. Ever. I'll give it all the time or I'll say no. So if my buddy Todd calls and says, hey, man, can I borrow a thousand dollars? My kid needs to go to the hospital or I can't make my light bill or whatever, by the way, Todd's got way more money than me, so that would never happen. It's kind of annoying, but here we are. I would, without thinking I would venmo him money, but I'm not gonna.

[Caller Anne]

He.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

He. He's never gonna owe me money because I don't loan people money because it creates a. It creates a, like a boss employee relationship. It creates a servant master relationship, for lack of better terms. You owe me. And it's hard to build intimate connection in a. I'm above you, right? But then if you loan him money, and then you loan him money, and then you leave work to go pick him up, and you do those things enough without even meaning to, you stack higher and higher to her. Now you're looking down at him, and that's a recipe for what the Gottmans would call the is the chief of the four horsemen, which is contempt. I take care of my finances better than you do. I have my crap together more than you do. I work really hard too, and at least I can be present when we go to dinner. And you can't. You see how that becomes hierarchical, right? It creates a power imbalance. Instead of saying, I love you. I don't loan money to anybody. A, I'm happy to help you. You're my boyfriend of however many years. I'm happy to help you with your. With your rent or your light bill, but what's the plan next month? Because that forces a more honest conversation about are we compatible or not? Because if he's like, oh, I got. I got a plan, babe. I got a plan in the next month, a month after. After that, then maybe you're dating a schemer. Or if next month he adds some more hours and he says, hey, I can't go out on Tuesday like I'd planned because I got another shift that may be a person worth investing in. You get what I'm saying? But it's you asking yourself, what are my non negotiables anymore? And then when he Starts bouncing up against your boundaries. That's how you're going to be able to test compatibility.

[Caller Melissa]

Okay.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Does that make sense?

[Caller Melissa]

It does. And I think I. I have been starting to build that, like, resentment.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Yeah. And you find yourself just becoming somebody you don't want to become. Right?

[Caller Melissa]

Exactly.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Yeah. And it comes from a place of. I don't want to demonize you or him. It comes from a place of deep caring and compassion. You're. You're a compassionate person, and you love this guy.

[Caller Melissa]

Yeah.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

It's 300 bucks. Of course. I'll give you that for your water bill. That's not a problem. And he loves and cares about you, and he's working really hard. And he knows, man, she's got my back. Ride or die. Can I have 300 for my light bill?

[Caller Melissa]

Right.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

So it's both people not thinking through, hey, we're slowly starting to drive our tractors over each other, and we're going to start blaming each other for that pain, when really that. What I need to do is build a really good fence around what I will and won't do.

[Caller Melissa]

Right.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

And it may be you sit down and say, hey, like, I don't know how many times you've bailed them out financially or bail them out, like with his. With rides or whatever, but you can be honest with yourself. Maybe even take out a piece of paper so it doesn't get real. The emotions don't get wrapped up in it initially. But write it down. I've had to. I've let you, quote, unquote, borrow money to the tune of $7,000 30 times. I can't. I need to know what a plan is, because I'm thinking about building a future with you. And if this is our future, I need to know that.

[Caller Sean]

Now.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Do you all live together? You all have separate places?

[Caller Melissa]

No, we live separate.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Okay. There's something about asking that question. My wife asked it to me. We're married. But it's something y' all ask each other. How do you want this house to feel when you walk in? How do you want to feel when you see me? And it's. It's. Feelings are not everything, and they're not designed to tell us the truth, but they are. They are flashing lights on our dashboard.

[Caller Madison]

Right.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

And if he says, I want you to be happy that I'm here, then the reverse engineer of that is okay, then you can't owe me $7,000. I need to be anchored into somebody equally to how they are anchored into me.

[Caller Melissa]

Right.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

I'm so.

[Caller Melissa]

And I Did tell him that?

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Yeah. What'd he say?

[Caller Melissa]

In so many words, he's, oh, there you go.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

I told him like so many words. Right. What do you say?

[Caller Melissa]

Well, I, he, he said he gets it. And I, I basically told him, if it feels like I'm meeting your needs, but my needs aren't being met.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

All right, I want to throw the word needs completely out the window. I want you to take a 30 day exercise and just take a fast from that word. I want you to have the courage to say I want. Because when we say I need with a romantic partner, what you need is food, water, and oxygen. When we say I want, like, I need this from you, it becomes a choreography, a checklist. When you look at somebody say stuff.

[Caller Melissa]

He'S asked of me, it's like, I need.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

There you go.

[Caller Melissa]

Money. I need help.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

That's right. And so one of the most common questions I get it from men is how do I get her to, like, want to sleep with me? How do I get sex off of a chore? I want her to want me. And I was like, dude, if you walk around, be like, I need this, I need this, then you go on the chore list. I need groceries. I need to get my water bill paid. I need to keep him happy.

[Caller Melissa]

Right.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Vulnerability and scary and courage and bravery is, hey, I want you. And so there's something about sitting down at a, at a dinner table and saying, I'm not having my needs met. There's something much more raw and intimate about you saying, hey, I want to be more important to you than the stupid baseball game. Yeah, because that he might look at you and say, well, right now you're not. You'll have to deal with that reality. Or he might say, I'm so sorry. You're right. I want you to feel want. But needs are a way we take our internal cinder block and we hand it to somebody else and say, you make my emotional regulation and my choices and my feelings. It's your job. Now instead of saying I want, will you pick this up on your own?

[Caller Melissa]

Okay.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

You get what I'm saying?

[Caller Anne]

Yeah.

[Caller Melissa]

That's good.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

And it's terrifying, isn't.

[Caller Melissa]

Is it feels harder to say that way.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Hard it is because he, Because, I mean, that's true vulnerability. Because if a stranger said, I need help, you would jump in. That's who you are.

[Caller Melissa]

Right.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

So we can go around meeting other people's quote unquote needs. I remember I was standing outside of a graduate school building and these two people were running. And once A sudden, somebody collapsed and started yelling, I need a Coke. They're having a, like, a. A diabetic reaction. And I ran and got him. Like, I didn't know who this person was. Of course I'm going to help meet your needs. That's just a human to human thing that's not always intimate. Intimate is, do you want me? And that can be real, real scary. But I guess here's the thing. When it comes to compatibility, I don't know, I kind of bristle at that word. Because when it comes to intimate relationships, when it comes to a building, a ride or die life, a with a partner, the question that matters is like, will you go all in? And I will go all in. And the moment somebody starts to feel like, hey, I'm going all in, and you're not, or you're using me for rent money, or you're using me for sex, or you're using me for whatever, it's not a matter of compatibility. It's a matter of will you or won't you? And that's a deeply intimate, scary question. So, Melissa, write down the things that are really like, not the things that he will or won't do, the things you are actually feeling. What is your body telling you? And then ask yourself this terrifying question. What do I want here? What do I want for me? What I want for you. What I want for us. And then that's the real deep conversation to have. Thank you for the call, sister. Call anytime. It's been an honor. We come back. A couple asks how to stay connected to their transgender family member despite their differences. This show is sponsored by Better Help. This time of year can be tough for all of us, so be sure you check in on your friends and if you can, reconnect with loved ones. I recently reconnected with some old friends of mine, and it was an amazing time of restoration. And just like, it can take a little courage to send that message or grab coffee with somebody you haven't talked to in a long time. Reaching out for a therapist can also feel hard. But if you need it, it's worth it. If you're thinking about reaching out to a therapist, I recommend better help. With over 30,000 therapists, they're the largest online therapy provider in the world. They've served over 5 million people globally, and they have an average rating of 4.9 out of 5. BetterHelp is totally online, so it's easy to fit into your schedule. To get started, you just answer a few simple questions, and they're going Connect you with a licensed therapist who will fit your needs. If it's not the right fit, you can switch at any time for no extra cost. This month, don't wait to reach out. Whether you're checking in on a friend or reaching out to a therapist, Better help makes it easy to take that first step. Visit betterhelp.com DeLoney to get 10% off your first month. That's better help. H E lp.com DeLoney all right, take two seconds and hit the subscribe button, the like button. Let the overlords of the technologies know that you like listening to the show. And if you have a call or an episode that you love, send it to a friend. It makes a huge difference for everybody. All right, let's go out to Dallas, Texas. I got a couple on the line. Let's bring in Sean. What's up, Sean?

[Caller Sean]

Hey, Dr. John. How are you doing today?

[Dr. John DeLoney]

I'm good, brother. How are you?

[Caller Sean]

I'm doing great. Thank you for asking. Well, not super great, but just pretty great.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

All right, let's bring in Madison. Madison, what's up?

[Caller Melissa]

Hi. Nothing much.

[Caller Madison]

Just on a phone call with you, I guess.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Very cool. All right, you guys are calling from Dallas. So what's going on? How can I help somebody? Whoever. Whoever wants to go first. Go for it.

[Caller Sean]

I'll jump in. So about four days ago, my brother shot us a text message saying that he has came out as a transgender woman. And it completely threw us off. Came out of left field. He told us that he's starting to transition by using HRT and estrogen and vocal training and, you know, changing his name, and he was changing his pronouns or her pro. Their pro, I don't know, changing the names. And my parents were really struggling with it. My mom had a health problem because of it. My dad said something along like, I think it's sinful what you're doing, and I think you're confused. And he also stated in the message when he came out to us that he was cutting off all communication with our parents and issuing, like, a no contact order against them because they were saying things like, they're mourning the death of their son and his eternal soul is damned and questioning his faith as a Christian and his education and all that sort of stuff. And so I guess the root of my question is, as Christians, my wife and I want to continue a relationship with him in a loving way. And. But also, we don't want to compromise our own values and beliefs. And I guess we just need guidance on how do we. How do we do that, you know.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Yeah. Hmm. So which part are you asking me about? I've got some pretty. Pretty firm opinions on this, but I also know that there's a wide spectrum of beliefs, and so if you're asking me for my opinions, I can give it to you. I prefer to give frameworks for how people can think through these things. And this is just particularly hard because, a, it's your brother and who's now asking to be called your sister. Your parents are involved, and they're throwing haymaker grenades, and then there's the no contact. And so I don't. And immediately. It's hard to not go to compassion, to hurt, to holidays. Like, what things gonna look like if y' all have kids. Like, is it uncle? Is. It ain't. Like, all that gets. It gets real mechanistic and real messy real fast, right?

[Caller Sean]

Yeah, absolutely. I guess the part I'm seeking guidance on is. And maybe the framework might be a good point, but the. Are we bad people if we don't use, like, his preferred names and pronouns or. You know, I know this is such a hot button issue right now, so I don't mean to throw you into muddy water.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

No, it's not muddy water. It's. I mean, it's a pretty clear thing with me. The framework that I use for everything in the. In the world is I'm a Christian, and Jesus shows up with hurting people, and so will I. Yeah. And so anytime somebody comes out, and it's happened multiple times in my life in various things, anytime somebody comes out, the first response, always, always I give is I love you. Thank you for sharing that with me, period.

[Caller Anne]

Yeah.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

And any conversation I want to have about names and pronoun use and spiritual this, all of that is second to I love you. Thank you for sharing that with me.

[Caller Sean]

Yeah.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

And by the way, I don't respond to anything of that significance via text.

[Caller Sean]

And that's. That's where my head was at, too. I'd want to. I'd want to call him and tell him that.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

The second thing is, in my conversations with friends of mine who are transgender, I always. Now, you have to know, like, I'm a clown anyway. Right? Yeah. I have a. I have a reputation, not only here, but in my personal life with. Oh, that dude just says it. Right. So I. You may not have that same context, but I always ask for grace. I'm gonna. This is a big shift for me. And anytime I had college students that were coming out and they would ask me to sit with their parents and stuff. I would always say, hey, your parents get some time because you just blew their world up. And so be compassionate to them too, because everything they knew and thought they understood or not even know what they knew every. Kids don't realize that the moment you have a kid, you already go down to this imaginary Thanksgiving where you have grandkids sitting around the table. And so if something happens along the way, that changes that picture. Even if I'm in full, like, alignment with what the change is, I still have to grieve the fact that I had this thing in my head and now it's not. Not there anymore. So I'd always tell young people, like, your parents, get a minute. It. Be compassionate and graceful with them too. Yeah. And people say things with. When they. When they get scared. People say things when suddenly. Right. Fill in the blank. But. So I'm ask for everyone have. And I also look at the parents and say, hey, whatever you're about to say, don't. Right. I always tell them that too, but I don't. Right. But it's. It's. It's messy. But always my first response, always is, I love you. Thank you for sharing that. I'm gonna call you.

[Caller Sean]

Yeah, I think. I know.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

We.

[Caller Sean]

Me and my wife, we were struggling with. We hadn't responded yet because he sent that text message probably, like, Thursday of last week, and because we didn't know what to say. And it's. We, my brother and I, we already don't have a great relationship. You know, there's a big age gap between us, and there was some childhood stuff that was really tough. You know, a lot of harsh and mean things were said and that weren't. That haven't been resolved in adulthood.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

To him or to you?

[Caller Sean]

From him to me.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Is he older than you or younger than you?

[Caller Sean]

He's older than me.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Okay. And so. But also, don't manufacture a relationship where there isn't one.

[Caller Melissa]

Yeah.

[Caller Sean]

Is that bad, though? Is.

[Caller Melissa]

Is it?

[Caller Sean]

I don't know. I just feel like. Because he's becoming so vulnerable and. And, you know, my wife could tell you it was like he did, at the end of the message, send a heartfelt apology of, like, all the stuff that he said and did during childhood, and it seemed really sincere. But I don't. I don't know if I, like, if I'm feeling. I hate to use word like. No. I don't know. I feel like it's. He's trying to rebuild a relationship, but that relationship has been burned a long time ago.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

You know, he might be trying to rebuild the relationship, or he might be trying to fully exhale for the first time and make himself feel better. The deal is, you don't know. Yeah. That's why I hate text messages on. On weighty things. Right. That's why I hate them.

[Caller Sean]

Yeah.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

And so when somebody. If I have a friend who's. Who's got a child, who's. Who's going through an organ transplant, send a big, long text, I pick up the phone and call. Right. And I mean, so I'm not just saying about this particular issue. I'm talking about all particular issues. But it might be that there is a deep well of self anger and self frustration and embarrassment and shame and all those things. But nobody is hurt. No ideology is hurt. No one is less of a religious person or not if they call somebody and say, I love you. Thank you for sharing. It sounds like you've been going through hell for a long time. And then y' all can get into the. I'm struggling with the. The what to call you. I'm personally have a thing where I can't bring myself to say this, or I could care less if you want me. Like, I. I don't have. Call any of my friends by their regular names. And so I'll call you whatever you want me to cut. Right. So it's. Everyone's different on that thing, on that spectrum. And so you have to be willing to say, this is a line I'm drawing. And if it's going to cost our relationship, I hope it doesn't. But this is. This is only so far I can go.

[Caller Sean]

Yeah.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

You get what I'm saying?

[Caller Sean]

I. I think I do. Yeah. All of that boundary.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

All of that happens downstream.

[Caller Sean]

Yeah.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

From.

[Caller Madison]

Yeah.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

So tell me what you're thinking, Madison.

[Caller Madison]

I guess. Well, first and foremost, like, I'm here to support Sean like my husband.

[Caller Melissa]

And.

[Caller Madison]

I think I just have. I feel like I have a different perspective, and I've been struggling with it a little bit because I didn't have a relationship with him, obviously, in childhood, and Sean did, and he's been hurt multiple times by him. And there's been family issues as well. I haven't really seen that. So I'm coming in. Like, I think we need to respond to him and talk to him and let him know that he's loved. And of course, I believe Sean believes the same thing. I just don't have that background in history with his brother. And so I guess I'm having a hard time with the. Maybe the lack of response at the moment.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Yeah. Hold on. Will you do me a favor, Madison?

[Caller Anne]

Yes.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Will you say what you're feeling to Sean and not to me?

[Caller Madison]

Yeah.

[Caller Anne]

I. I feel that.

[Caller Madison]

We. I don't know, like, as you're dancing around it.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Just say it. Just say it.

[Caller Madison]

I know.

[Caller Anne]

I know.

[Caller Madison]

I feel like there's been a lack of response, and I don't want to be in the position where we push someone away because they might disagree with us or have a different viewpoint than us, because I want to show love to all people, but while not compromising our beliefs. So I understand why it's a difficult thing to approach, but I just wish we could just talk to him and call him, I guess.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Sean.

[Caller Melissa]

Yeah.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

How does that hit you?

[Caller Sean]

Probably like a ton of bricks. I. I think. I think my. My initial thing is my. Like, I want to try to almost defend my actions of not responding to him, and I know that's not. I know that's not the. The right thing to do, you know?

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Let me give you some grace, too. Okay? Can I. Can I. Madison, Sean, can I say this as normally again? I would let y' all work this out. If we were sitting together and you were on a couch and I was in a. In one of those recliners, and we had the room, like, all dimly lit, like. Can. Can I cut through what I'm hearing?

[Caller Sean]

Yeah.

[Caller Madison]

Yeah.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

How long have y' all been married?

[Caller Melissa]

Two years.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Okay. All right, perfect. Here's what I'm hearing. We've been together for two and a half years, married maybe a couple years before that. I didn't know, Sean. I didn't know that this is how you handled hurting people. I thought you were something else. I thought you were a person that went running towards hurting people. And that's Madison. Maybe not that strongly, but I'm. I'm. I'm reeling with. I didn't expect this of you. I didn't expect this to be your response, especially as you told me how your parents would respond to you and your brother when y' all were kids. I thought you were going to be different. And the other side of that is Sean is thinking you, too. Will somebody be on my side? I thought you were my ride or die.

[Caller Anne]

Yeah.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

And I want to tell both of you that this kind of tension is okay and it's normal in a marriage, but it unspoken is what causes big problems. Do you get what I'm saying?

[Caller Sean]

Yeah.

[Caller Anne]

Yeah.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

This huge, giant issue in your family is. Is really a big spotlight on Sean yet again, feeling attacked like he has his whole life. And Madison thinking, I married this really compassionate guy that goes running towards hurting people. But this time he. He hesitates. And really, the reality is, is some of that's true, and also some of that it's. It's all tangled up together that Sean is a really. The same compassionate guy you think you met married Madison, and this guy that needs his help really hurt him bad. And, Sean, she is on your side, it sounds like, but she's calling you to the version of yourself that she knows deeply. Yeah, both are true. You know what I'm saying?

[Caller Sean]

Yeah, absolutely.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

But it sucks to say out loud, doesn't it?

[Caller Sean]

Absolutely.

[Caller Anne]

Yeah.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Madison.

[Caller Anne]

Yeah.

[Caller Madison]

Yeah, it does. It does. It's hard to hear it because. Yeah, that's a strong way to put it. I don't think I'm feeling like. I don't know, maybe not to that magnitude.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

I know I'm pretty. I'm pretty overdramatic.

[Caller Madison]

Yeah, Yeah. I. I just want to clarify that.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

No, I know. I know. You don't have to. You could clarify that with him. I'm being overdramatic, but I'm trying to make a point that y' all find yourselves accidentally. Not accidentally, but life feels like it's pitting y' all against each other. And it's the not talking about it that's actually the issue, because I think you are way closer aligned than you think you are.

[Caller Sean]

Yeah, Yeah, I agree. Yeah. I think I appreciated the directness, Dr. John, because I do think, like, she. She does have this. Madison has this perceptive perception of me that, you know, I am kind of a run in first kind of guy. And I. And I haven't. I've been running away. You know, I've been turning my back and sprinting as far as I can. And so I. Yeah, I'm definitely a little bit convicting in that sense.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

And I don't want to tell you guys how to respond or what to respond. I can tell you how I would respond. And I do have lines. Right? I do have, like, hey, this is a big deal. And that's where. When somebody puts something hard on the table. Let's take. Let's take the transgender issue off. It's really a hot button thing if somebody I care about says, hey, I just got arrested for stealing a million dollars from my business. Right. I'm going to jail. I don't. My wife kicked me out. I would say, my God, dude, I love you. I'm glad that you called me. Come over. But I'm not giving that person access to my safe.

[Caller Madison]

Yeah.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

If that person had the codes to my safe, I would change them. Because you've given me some information now. Right. I'm going to respond to that. And here's the thing. I would tell that person, hey, you know, I changed my coats. Right. And they might maybe be like, yeah, for sure. Or that's fair. Or they might get super hurt and say, screw you, I'm out of here. But if you're asking me to walk alongside you compassionately and loving you, I'm going to ask you to hold what I'm wrestling with compassionately and lovely lovingly too.

[Caller Sean]

Yeah.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

And the problem on these issues is we expect the other side, whatever the issue is, to take a hundred percent of us. And if they don't, they are wiping a hundred percent of us away. And that's just dumb. It's not real.

[Caller Anne]

Yeah.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

The reality is I can love you deeply and care for you, but if you draw all these lines and I say, I can't go, I can't go there and you're like, fine, then none of it matters, then that's a. They're choosing to walk away.

[Caller Sean]

Yeah.

[Caller Madison]

Yeah.

[Caller Anne]

Yeah.

[Caller Madison]

I think that's what we're nervous about. Since he is issuing the non contact letter to their parents, we're nervous that if we say the wrong thing, he will do the same to us. And I know that's not in our control or something. I don't know that we can handle because that's his decision.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

But do y' all live by him?

[Caller Sean]

No, we live a couple states away.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Okay. I. I think a phone call, or. Here's what I would do. I do a phone call first.

[Caller Anne]

Yeah.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

And say what I've said. Right. And I would also say we have a lot to talk through and figure out. I don't even know how this works.

[Caller Madison]

Yeah.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

And in the same way you're uncomfortable with mom and Dad, I don't want you to be uncomfortable with us. We love you, but this is just a lot. It's big.

[Caller Sean]

Yeah.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

And so let's FaceTime in the next couple of days. I mean, talk it through.

[Caller Anne]

Yeah.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

And I'm going to ask you to be really graceful with me because I'm going to make mistakes. You've. You've been my brother. You've had this name, You've had all. Whatever, whatever y' all feel comfortable with. You've been this for this long and now all of a sudden it's different. I just need some grace. And if you're met with screw you, Absolutely not. Then that's. That's. You're. You're getting reality, and y' all are going to get to respond to that. But I want to tell you, both of you, I'm proud of youall for calling. And more importantly, I think this is one of those moments that makes your marriage stronger. Because from this, if y' all will agree that we're never going to keep secrets. And when I have a big feeling, not as big and dramatic as I made it, Madison. I know, but when I have big feelings, maybe I'm going to take 24 hours, maybe I take 48 hours, but I'm going to sit down and I'm going to be honest with you about them. And if that sparks a big feeling in. In you, Sean, then I'm going to take 24 hours, and then I'm going to put mine back out on the table. My feelings back out on the table. And we're going to have that conversation, but we're not going to slowly, inch by inch, go our separate ways, because I can't believe you said that. I can't believe you didn't do this. Well, I didn't do this because this. And I can't believe we're going to continue to come back, come back, come back. And that's going to help you all iron, sharpen iron. You all going to together become laser focused. And it will help refine your family values. And man, what a blessing that will be to anyone who gets to pull up a seat at Yalls table. But that's. That's my take on it. I go towards hurting people. And anytime somebody has big news on any issue, my first response is, I love you and I'm so grateful that you. That you called me. Thanks for the call, Sean. And Madison, I'm really grateful for you. We'll be right back. All right. I don't know about you, but have you ever been looking at something on your phone and then suddenly it ends up on your laptop? And then suddenly there's a commercial on the TV that matches what you're looking for on your phone. It feels like everything is listening to us. And it gives me this low grade anxiety about everything. And we already know that every move we make on the Internet is being tracked. And now it feels like our phones are listening to us and our TVs are watching us. We live in a time when personal information like name, address, phone number, even our family's information is being bought and sold behind our backs without our consent. And this is not just a Privacy issue. When your data becomes scattered across the Internet and people are buying it and selling it without your knowledge, it makes you feel uncomfortable. It makes you feel scared. It's an invasion of privacy. And this is why I use Delete Me. Delete Me is a service that hunts down your personal information that's sitting on shady data broker sites and it makes sure that it's removed. It's like digital boundary setting. When you take back control of your personal information, you're not just safer, you feel calmer. You can exhale in your own house. And look, it's not about hiding from the world. It's just about you choosing what parts of your life are for public knowledge and what is private for you. If you want less chaos and more control in your digital life, this is a simple way to start. Go to JoinDeleteMe.com DeLoney and use code DeLoney to get 20% off your annual plan. That's digital freedom. Join DeleteMe.com DeLoney to save 20% off. Go check them out. All right, we're back. What's up, Kelly? Oh, hey. Can we just shout out. The Cowboys tied last week, so yay, everybody gets a trophy. And this week they won.

[Caller Kelly]

Yeah, against the Jets.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

It's the worst team in all football, but it's. It's good.

[Caller Kelly]

Well, I think the worst team right now is the Titans, so the Cardinals can answer for that.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

And what a majestic wild game.

[Caller Kelly]

Yeah, my team right now looks a lot better than I think they really are because of who we're playing fair. So, anyway, onto much better news. Bonnie from Tampa, Florida writes in with a cool crap that happened.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Oh, awesome.

[Caller Kelly]

Yes.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Let it rip, Bonnie.

[Caller Kelly]

All right. She writes, after listening to the recent program, am I doomed to repeat my family's tragic mistakes? I realized how your show has impacted me and my family. Growing up, my house had a lot of yelling and anger. My dad had PTSD from Vietnam. I vividly remember when I was 6 and my dad almost murdered my sister. As an aside, my therapist told me that that wasn't trauma since it didn't happen to me.

[Caller Anne]

What?

[Caller Kelly]

Hope that person's still practicing. Anyway, when my daughter was born, we're.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Having a job forever. Kelly.

[Caller Kelly]

When my daughter was born, I brought the tradition of yelling into our house. I hated that I did that. I'm one of the OG17. And after listening to your show, I realized I could do better. So I did. I talked to my daughter, apologized for the past, and allowed her to tell me when I was yelling. It's been years since I've yelled in anger. And while everything isn't rainbows and unicorns, it is a calmer home. Thank you to you and your team for all that you do.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Amazing. Amazing. I won't even respond to that, other than to say thank you for sharing that, and I'm proud of you for doing the work in your own house to change your family tree. And I'll also say yes, if your dad tries to murder your sister. Everybody in the club gets trauma. Everybody. God Almighty. Where do these people get their training from? It's like they go to the Kelly Daniels School of Fine Producing. Kelly Daniels School of Producing and Car Wash and Therapy. You gotta let that one go, Kelly. Stick to the car washes. Love you. Bye.