My Husband Tells His Ex-Wife Everything

Summary

Podcast Summary: The Dr. John DeLoney Show Episode: "My Husband Tells His Ex-Wife Everything" Release Date: July 28, 2025

---

Introduction

In this episode of The Dr. John DeLoney Show, hosted by the Ramsey Network, Dr. John DeLoney delves into real-life relationship and mental health challenges faced by callers. The episode titled "My Husband Tells His Ex-Wife Everything" explores themes of emotional boundaries, betrayal, co-parenting, and maintaining personal well-being amidst complex family dynamics. Through empathetic dialogue and expert advice, Dr. DeLoney provides actionable insights to help listeners navigate their interpersonal struggles.

---

Caller 1: Nicole's Dilemma – Husband Sharing Personal Matters with His Ex-Wife

Timestamp: 00:35 - 15:18

Issue Presented: Nicole reaches out expressing discomfort over her husband frequently discussing their marriage and personal issues with his ex-wife. Although these conversations ostensibly revolve around their shared children, Nicole feels betrayed and questions the integrity of her marriage.

Key Points & Discussions:

1. Emotional Infidelity:

   • Dr. DeLoney identifies Nicole's situation as a form of emotional infidelity, emphasizing that sharing intimate marital issues with an ex signifies a breach of trust.
   • Quote (03:21): "But no, it's absolutely not, because here's why... He's still buddying up and still flirting. Still being emotionally intimate with my ex."

2. Setting Boundaries:

   • The importance of establishing clear boundaries is highlighted. Nicole has attempted to communicate her discomfort, yet her husband remains dismissive.
   • Quote (04:38): "That's a gross violation of your marriage."

3. Therapist's Misstep:

   • Nicole shares that her therapist deemed her husband's actions acceptable, which Dr. DeLoney criticizes as inadequate support.
   • Quote (10:14): "This is just a gross betrayal. I'm sorry."

4. Taking Action:

   • Dr. DeLoney advises Nicole to document her feelings and establish an "ultimatum" to either maintain healthy boundaries or consider separation.
   • Quote (08:51): "You have to write down your 'or' statement... If you choose to stay, acknowledge the consequences."

5. Validating Feelings:

   • Throughout the conversation, Dr. DeLoney reassures Nicole that her feelings are legitimate and not a result of her own instability.
   • Quote (05:02): "You're not crazy. It's a pretty childish, lame thing to do."

Conclusion for the Caller: Dr. DeLoney underscores the necessity for Nicole to prioritize her emotional well-being and the integrity of her marriage by setting firm boundaries. He emphasizes that a healthy relationship requires mutual respect and trust, urging Nicole to take decisive steps to protect her mental health.

---

Caller 2: Elizabeth's Struggle – Balancing First Responder Career and Motherhood

Timestamp: 20:43 - 36:14

Issue Presented: Elizabeth, a 24-year-old EMS professional and new mother, seeks guidance on managing her intense career with her responsibilities at home. She feels burned out and struggles to find fulfillment beyond her role as a mother, especially with her husband transitioning into a first responder role and their plans for expanding their family.

Key Points & Discussions:

1. Feeling Trapped and Burned Out:

   • Elizabeth expresses feeling isolated and waiting for her life to "press play" again, highlighting the emotional toll of balancing demanding work and motherhood.
   • Quote (10:29): "That's exactly how I feel. I kind of feel betrayed."

2. Acknowledging Her Role and Feelings:

   • Dr. DeLoney validates Elizabeth's experience, reaffirming her capabilities as a mother while encouraging her to seek personal fulfillment.
   • Quote (23:41): "You're a good mom. You're a badass mom."

3. Finding Purpose and Balance:

   • He suggests incremental steps such as taking on occasional shifts to stay connected with her passion without overwhelming her current capacity.
   • Quote (30:00): "Can you do that at your stage of pregnancy?"

4. Overcoming Motherhood Guilt:

   • Elizabeth grapples with societal expectations of motherhood, feeling guilty for desiring personal time and professional engagement.
   • Quote (29:10): "I feel like everything in my life has told me that this is the ultimate career for women."

5. Practical Solutions:

   • Dr. DeLoney advises developing new routines, seeking support systems, and allowing herself to make different choices to alleviate feelings of being trapped.
   • Quote (32:21): "The greatest gift you can give a husband is to have an alive life now for seasons."

Conclusion for the Caller: Dr. DeLoney empowers Elizabeth to recognize her need for personal fulfillment alongside her roles as a mother and first responder. He encourages her to take proactive steps to integrate her passions with her family life, ensuring her emotional well-being and preventing burnout.

---

Caller 3: Kathleen's Concerns – Helping Her Son Adjust to Half-Siblings

Timestamp: 39:11 - 50:11

Issue Presented: Kathleen, a mother of a seven-year-old boy, seeks advice on helping her son adapt to having half-siblings due to both her and her ex-husband's upcoming pregnancies. She worries about her son navigating two families and maintaining emotional stability.

Key Points & Discussions:

1. Introducing New Siblings Positively:

   • Dr. DeLoney recommends framing the new siblings as the son's own "babies" to instill a sense of ownership and pride.
   • Quote (42:07): "Starting right now, begin to refer to this new kid as his baby."

2. Encouraging Responsibility and Ownership:

   • Emphasizing the developmental stage of seven-year-olds, he suggests engaging the child in excitement and small responsibilities related to the new siblings.
   • Quote (44:00): "These feelings are just... I'm in a crummy season."

3. Emotional Availability and Support:

   • Kathleen is advised to remain emotionally present, allowing her son to express his feelings without judgment or immediate solutions.
   • Quote (49:14): "You get two houses, you get two Christmases."

4. Creating a Supportive Environment:

   • Dr. DeLoney highlights the importance of parental unity and open communication between all parties involved in the co-parenting arrangement.
   • Quote (47:26): "If y'all are super gangsters and all four of y'all could go to dinner..."

5. Monitoring for Emotional Struggles:

   • He advises being vigilant for signs of emotional distress in the child, such as behavioral changes or academic performance issues.
   • Quote (50:09): "Don't let any sort of mom guilt you have or divorce guilt you have take away the struggle that he feels."

Conclusion for the Caller: Dr. DeLoney provides Kathleen with strategies to foster a positive and supportive environment for her son as he adjusts to the addition of half-siblings. By promoting ownership, responsibility, and open emotional support, he helps Kathleen ensure her son's emotional well-being amidst significant family changes.

---

Overall Insights and Conclusions

Throughout the episode, Dr. John DeLoney emphasizes the critical importance of setting clear emotional boundaries, validating personal feelings, and fostering open communication within relationships. Whether dealing with emotional infidelity, balancing demanding careers with family life, or navigating complex co-parenting situations, Dr. DeLoney offers compassionate and practical advice tailored to each caller's unique circumstances.

Key takeaways include:

• Establish and Maintain Boundaries: Protecting the sanctity of the marital relationship by defining what personal matters should remain private.

• Validate and Acknowledge Feelings: Recognizing and affirming one's own emotions as legitimate and deserving of attention and care.

• Seek Balance Between Personal and Family Life: Encouraging individuals to find fulfillment and purpose beyond their roles as parents or spouses to prevent burnout and maintain personal well-being.

• Foster Positive Co-Parenting Dynamics: Creating supportive environments for children to adjust to new family structures through positive framing and emotional support.

Dr. DeLoney's compassionate approach underscores the necessity of self-care, mutual respect, and effective communication in building and sustaining healthy relationships and mental well-being.

---

Notable Quotes with Timestamps:

1. "You're not crazy. It's a pretty childish, lame thing to do." – Dr. John DeLoney [05:02]
2. "You're a good mom. You're a badass mom." – Dr. John DeLoney [23:41]
3. "Starting right now, begin to refer to this new kid as his baby." – Dr. John DeLoney [42:07]
4. "The greatest gift you can give a husband is to have an alive life now for seasons." – Dr. John DeLoney [32:21]
5. "Don't let any sort of mom guilt you have or divorce guilt you have take away the struggle that he feels." – Dr. John DeLoney [50:09]

---

This comprehensive summary encapsulates the core discussions and insights from "The Dr. John DeLoney Show" episode, providing valuable guidance for listeners facing similar challenges in their personal and familial relationships.

Transcript

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Amazon presents Scotty versus Geology 101 paper. A mountain of an assignment. The Geology 101 paper can turn an all dayer into an all nighter and an all nighter into an all morninger. But Scotty shopped on Amazon and saved on a laptop, sticky notes and a mini fridge full of energy drinks. Hey, paper. Scotty's got you on the ropes. Carbon date that save the everyday with college deals on Amazon.

[Nicole]

Is it okay that my husband talks about our marriage and personal matters with his ex? He was on a phone call till midnight with her. Granted, it was about the children, but I feel like Nicole.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

What are the chances he's having an affair with her? What up? What's up? This is John with the Dr. John DeLoney show, talking mental health and emotional health and relationships. Not the theories, but actual sitting with real people going through real challenges. This is me trying to take all the science nerdy stuff and years of experience and translate it into, how do I go be a better spouse or boyfriend or girlfriend or parent or kid? How do we deal with the stuff that's going on in our lives right now? If you want to be on the show, I would love to have you go to johndelony.com, ask a s k, fill out the form, and let's get it on. Let's go out to the Utes, Salt Lake City and talk to Nicole. What's up, Nicole?

[Nicole]

Hi there.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

What's up, lady?

[Nicole]

Hi.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

How are you?

[Nicole]

How are you?

[Dr. John DeLoney]

I'm great.

[Nicole]

I'm good, thank you.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

I'm running a scam called a podcast. It's awesome.

[Nicole]

Sounds like a lot of fun. I love listening to you.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Well, I appreciate it. How can I help? What's up?

[Nicole]

So my question is, is should or is it okay that my husband talks about our marriage and personal matters with his ex?

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Give me an example.

[Nicole]

So. Well, really, anything. So, arguments, disagreements, our trips to therapy, anything I tell him somehow gets back to her. They share two kids together, so I do know that they need to be communicating often. I just don't know where the line goes between what he should be sharing of our personal matters and what he should be keeping within our home.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

I think the important thing here is you sitting down and saying, so I. It's easy for me to throw stones here, right? To be like, yeah, you should never say anything. Never. Whatever. What's important, though, is you have sat down with your husband and said and said. It makes me uncomfortable when personal matters leave the two of us. And so if we go to Therapy. If we have marriage issues, if we have relationship challenges, if we got parenting issues, those are ours. Please don't share them with your ex, with anybody. Have you tried that?

[Nicole]

I have. I have actually asked him that. And then recently have sat down with her and like, had a woman to woman talk, letting her know how I felt. But for some reason they think that they make me feel like I'm crazy, like it's normal and just something inside me feels like it's not. And I don't know if maybe I am crazy and that should be okay.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

But no, it's absolutely not, because here's why. Sat down and said, I'm asking you to keep this private. And your husband said, yeah, I don't care what you said. I don't care what you feel. I don't care what's important to you. What's more important to me is still buddy. Buddying up and still flirting. Still being emotionally intimate with my ex. And, and. And again, that line is different for everybody. I tell stories from stage that some couples would say, please don't let this leave our house. And there's way more stories that I don't share from stage that other people might share because my wife or my friends, it would be inappropriate. They've said, hey, this is, this is. This is between us. And I've said, awesome. I honor that. And so the line is determined by everybody. And I know it's messy because he's got kids and so they're going to be in contact. Y' all live by each other?

[Nicole]

We do. I actually, I come from a different state and I recently moved where we are now so we could all be together closer to his kids, so. And we live in a very small town, so not only does she know the information, but she goes and tells people. So now the whole town knows my life and our life.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

No, that's. That's a. That's a gross violation of your marriage. I'm sorry.

[Nicole]

Oh, thank you. I appreciate that.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

You're not crazy. It's a pretty childish, lame thing to do.

[Nicole]

Yeah, I guess I just want to do the right thing by the kids in my marriage. And I just don't know. What does a health, like, how what does a healthy co parenting look like? Like, are there boundaries that we need to put in place? Like what, what would your advice be to go forward to make this a livable situation for all of us?

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Well, there's two separate things here. One, your husband's priority number one is those kids. And just as marrying into that You. That's something, you know, coming in.

[Nicole]

Yeah.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

He's got to make sure those kids stay safe and whole and feel loved. And if he's got a healthy co parenting situation, that's amazing. And I think it's important for you when adults act like adults, which they usually don't, for you and their mother to have some sort of relationship because she's entrusting another woman to her kids half the time. Right. So that's. That's good. That only works when they are people of integrity. And there's a whole separate layer to this, which is she does not get a single vote into your marriage that's between you and your husband. They're not together anymore. She gets a vote on raising kids on, like, can't. What court ordered stuff, on camps, on education. She gets a vote in that those are her children. She does not get a vote into your life, where y' all live, what y' all do, your personal challenges, your sex life. She doesn't get a vote on any of that stuff. And she should know none of it because you have said this is between us. And I'm gonna be honest with you. I don't think she's the problem here. Your husband is.

[Nicole]

Well. And I've kind of. I agree. I mean, I had a lot of animosity for her over the years, and I recently told my husband, you know, I had to come to Jesus moment with myself over this. Like, she doesn't owe me loyalty. It's you. Like, she's not the one I should be mad about that. It's you. So hopefully I can get through to him that, you know, it's not okay. And we need to be united together and kind of not live this uncomfortable triangle between the three of us that we have.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

He wants the best of both worlds. He wants a stay at home maid, and he wants to keep his relationship with this other woman.

[Nicole]

Yeah, I hear you. It's definitely odd. It definitely doesn't feel right.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

It's not odd as much as it's just. Yeah, maybe odd's the right word. I just feel like you're getting played.

[Nicole]

Yeah. And I feel the same way. I just needed to hear somebody else's perspective that wasn't, you know, bias.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Yeah. So here's the hardest part of this whole thing you have to have in your mind. In fact, I'd get out of my mind and I'd write it down. Here's what integrity in your marriage looks like. I want you to write that stuff down for yourself because otherwise you're going to get emotional about it. You're going to talk to him about it, he's going to start spinning it up. You're going to feel crazy. And then in a few weeks, his wife's his. I mean, his ex is going to circle back to you and be like, hey, I hurt. I want you to write it all down so you're able to look at it and feel like, okay, this is right. And this is probably a bit much. This is right, and this is right. And here's the second thing. You have to write down your or what statement. If you keep sharing personal stuff with another woman that you used to have a relationship with. Fill in the blank.

[Nicole]

Okay?

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Nothing. I'm not going to leave you. I'm just going to keep staying here. Because if that's the case, great, cool. But stop being miserable about it. Just know that anything you share with him is going to go to her. That's the life you chose. Cool. Great, grand, wonderful. Let's move on. If you say I'm worth more than this, and I did not move across the country to a new state with a bunch of strangers to watch, you basically consider a marriage and just stay at home so you can get some every once in a while and I'll take care of your house for you. You get to choose. But if you go into that conversation without an or what statement without a line drawn, and again, this requires him to do nothing except honor what your boundary is. You're the one that's going to take action. Either take action or not take action. And I'm not going to judge either way. What I. The only thing I'll judge you is if you aren't going to leave and you choose to keep spinning up about this, you're just choosing just to be miserable, to make peace with it. Just through his language. He's just. I mean, through his actions, he's told you I'm not trustworthy, so I'm not gonna. Don't tell him personal stuff, which is a disaster for any marriage, but there you go.

[Nicole]

Kind of the road we've recently gone down is I keep a lot of things secret, which I don't want to. I don't want a marriage like that either, but it's the only way I can feel like it can protect my. My personal life or the things I'm going through.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

I agree. This is just a gross betrayal. I'm sorry.

[Nicole]

And that's kind of what I've told him. And I don't think he realizes that it is Like a betrayal. That's exactly how I feel. I kind of feel betrayed.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Like it's emotional infidelity. He's going to somebody else for emotional support and care.

[Nicole]

Part about it, I think is we went to couples therapy and I brought this up with our therapist and she told us that he, that it was okay, that he needs somebody to confide in. And I just thought that was crazy because that's insanely taught. You don't go to the opposite sex with your marriage issues or. You know what I mean?

[Dr. John DeLoney]

You might go, here's the thing, you might go to the opposite sex. I've got some world class close friends of the opposite sex. But you don't go to the person that your spouse says, I don't feel safe with this period. And I'll add another layer. You don't go to the X. That's just salt in a wound. Right.

[Nicole]

That's a great way of explaining how I feel.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

It's not, it's not just like it's a co worker, right, that you just have a bad feeling about or it's a co worker that's a great friend, but you're just like, hey, this is private. Right. So it's not even like that. Or a woman he's known for years who's married to somebody else who's gay. It doesn't matter. The fact is you said it doesn't matter if there's no sexual energy at all. The fact is you said, hey, I don't want you talking to this person about my private inner life that I share with you, my spouse. And he has said, I don't care. And big box of doo doo diarrhea farts on this. This therapist for looking at you saying, yeah, what you feel and what your boundaries are don't matter. That sucks.

[Nicole]

Yeah. It's not a good feeling.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

No. That's ridiculous. It's lame. What the therapist should have said. Let me, let me, let me give you an example of what a good therapist would say in that moment. The therapist would turn and look at him after you said, I am uncomfortable with this. Would have turned and looked at him and said, is this something you are willing to engage in this marriage? And he gets a yes or no choice. A therapist is, isn't supposed to take somebody's pain and hurt or discomfort and be like, yep, you're an idiot.

[Nicole]

Yes. Well, I appreciate you telling me that because it makes a little bit me a little thing, clearly. I mean, because it's just been such a. I feel crazy. And everyone Else around me being them two and the therapist making me feel like I just need to get on board with them.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

No, she needs to know your schedules. She needs no drop off times. She needs to know. Limited, very limited financial information. Just about the kids. She needs to know.

[Nicole]

Let me ask you, is it appropriate? I know like they, they, like. I definitely have woke up in the middle of the night and looked for him and he was on a phone call till midnight with her. Granted it was about the children, but I feel like, is there some respect for our time, Nicole, and our home?

[Dr. John DeLoney]

What are the chances he's having an affair with her?

[Nicole]

I would. I mean, it feels that way, right? I mean, she's married. She's in a much happier relations. She is in now than she ever was with my husband. But it just.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Hold on. You don't know that.

[Nicole]

Weird.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

You don't know that you get a highlight reel of an ex when you meet her. Yeah, you get a highlight reel. You have no idea what her inner marriage is like.

[Nicole]

Yeah, you're right. Her husband asks. No, please don't call. No during these hours.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

That's for your husband to shut down. That's for your husband to shut down.

[Nicole]

Okay, so that is inappropriate is what I'm hearing.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Any boundary you put down that your spouse looks at you and says, screw this. That's not true. There could be some nutty ones. If you said you're not allowed to walk on the sidewalk or whatever. That's dumb.

[Nicole]

Yeah.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

No, it is not unreasonable. I'll take back what I just said. Any boundary. There's some crazy ones. It is not unreasonable for you to ask your husband to not be having midnight rendezvous phone calls with his ex. Yes. That's not crazy.

[Nicole]

Even if they though it's about the kids.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Is one of them in the er?

[Nicole]

No. Okay. It wasn't an emergency.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Didn't, did and a. Gosh, Nicole, I'm telling you, I've been doing this a long time. I would be stunned if they're not sleeping together. Stunned. I'd be shocked. I would love to be wrong. Or maybe they're not sleeping together, but they're still together.

[Nicole]

Yeah, I mean, that definitely validates how I feel.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

I'm. I. I don't know whether to hug you because you're like, you don't see the world clearly or you've just packed up and moved across the country to a new state and the weight of a change right now and a divorce and all that would be just so much. And so you want to keep these other lens, these other glasses on so you can just keep looking through that old lens of. It's all okay. It's all okay. It's probably me. It's probably me. Or I don't know whether just to have my heart broken and give you a hug because you're just being gaslit to the moon and back. But no, everything you're saying is not crazy. Your therapist is just out to lunch. I don't know. I don't understand that at all. And, yeah, this is just a big old mess. And what matters here, I'll say it one more time. What matters here is your level of discomfort about his relationship with another woman. You married into some of that because they share kids, but that woman should not be into the details of your life, mainly because you've said so. So I wish you the absolute best. I'm sorry to. I mean, I'm glad that I could shine some light and you're not crazy. But I'm also sorry because I know the next few steps for you are going to be painful. They're going to be hard. But you get to choose what happens next. And I wish you the absolute best. Call me back anytime. If he wants to call me and be like, hey, man, I think you're out to lunch. I'd love to talk to him. Be awesome. All right. We come back, a woman asks how to adjust to mom life after being a first responder. We'll be right back. Poncho is back. As a supporter of this show, and I am hyped about it. If you've seen me talking on stages across the country, if you come out to one of my shows or if you watch this show or if you. If you recently saw me on a fishing trip with my son out in the Gulf Shores, Alabama, area, or maybe you've even seen me mowing my yard out here in Nashville, I'm almost always wearing poncho shirts. Why? Because Poncho makes the absolute best outdoor performance shirts for men, period. I do wear them inside, but they're designed for wearing outside. Whether they are sponsoring the show or not, you are going to almost always see me wearing poncho. And of course, I love their denims and their insanely soft flannels. But now that it's super hot, I. I'm wearing Ponchos ultralight shirts every day. They're lightweight, they're breathable, and they're tough enough to handle whatever chaos my day brings. I'm talking everything from traveling to being up to my chest, fishing in the surf or doing yard work. These shirts move with you, not against you. They dry fast, they don't cling or bunch up, and they come in slim or regular fits so you're not walking around looking like a circus tent or like some sausage link with a head on it. Go over to ponchooutdoors.com DeLoney and try them out for yourself. Right now. New customers get 10 bucks off their first purchase. You just sign up with your email. Go to ponchooutdoors.com DeLoney to get the shirts for the men in your life. Trust me, Poncho ultralight shirts are a summer essential for me, and they will be a summer essential for you. I'm finally home for the summer after being on the road, and that means I get to sleep on my Helix mattress. And for everybody, all of us, summer is here. Sun's up earlier, the kids are all over the place. And if you're like me, your daily routine has exploded. And when that happens, what's the first thing that just goes away? Sleep. We get up really late. We stay up really late, we abandon sleep. And when I'm not sleeping well, I'm short with my wife, I'm grumpy with my kids, and everything feels harder than it should. And I know that's the same in your life, too. Sleep is not just about closing your eyes and resting.

[Nicole]

It's.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

It's about showing up the next day as the kind of person you want to be and the kind of person your family needs you to be. That's why I love getting home to sleep on my Helix mattress. Before Helix, I tried all kinds of mattresses. They were too soft, too stiff. They had memory foam that just, like, enveloped you like quicksand. You name it, I've tried it. Helix matched me with the perfect mattress based on how I sleep and based on who I sleep next to. My wife. Yes, they've even got options for couples who need different feels on the same bed. It's I want you to take the Helix sleep quiz. I did it. It takes less than two minutes, and they're going to match you with the perfect mattress just for you. And right now, my audience gets extended access to their ongoing 4th of July sale. For 27% off the entire Helix site, go to helixsleep.com DeLoney and get 27% off. That's helixsleep.com DeLoney with Helix Better sleep starts right now. All right, Denver, Colorado, let's talk to Elizabeth. Hey, Elizabeth. What's up, lady?

[Nicole]

Hey. How's it Going?

[Dr. John DeLoney]

I'm doing great. How about you?

[Nicole]

I'm good. Thanks for taking my call.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Of course. What's up?

[Nicole]

So I'm a career first responder. I've been in EMS since I was 17. I absolutely love it. It's never really felt like a job. I. It's just a passion.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

How old are you?

[Nicole]

But last year, I am almost 24.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Yeah, dude. So I used to run the streets with EMS folks, man. And you guys are a special breed. The ones who are just career EMSers are just made different. They're amazing.

[Nicole]

Yeah, it's. Very few people are wired that way, I think.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Well, no, I mean, like, they're literally amazing. And there's, like. I used to wonder, like, hey, you know, you could just go get a couple other degrees and. Or do some certificates and make more money and do it. And they're like, oh, dude, this is what I do. It was. I. I love being around lifers, dude. They just see everything, and they're rad, dude. So. So kudos to you, man.

[Nicole]

Thank you.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

All right, so about a year ago, what happened?

[Nicole]

I became a mom.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Oh, welcome to it, man. Yeah.

[Nicole]

Yeah. And my husband is in the process of changing careers, actually. He's becoming first responder. I rubbed off on him. Just a bo. Desert operator on Wildland. Firefighters, you know, nothing. Nothing crazy.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Easy, Easy peasy. Yeah. And luckily, there's no fires in Colorado, so y' all be good to go.

[Nicole]

Yeah, exactly. Well, I love being with my son, but I'm really struggling just being home. I really miss the excitement. I miss the problem solving. And I'm home alone pretty much 40 hours a week with my toddler now. And I've kind of tried it all in the mom groups, volunteering, like, the library meetings, and nothing is just filling the void. And I'm starting to feel very burned out and useless and, like, I'm just waiting for someone to press play on my life again. I know this isn't permanent, but it is probably the next one to two years of my life since I just found out I'm pregnant again. So my question is two parts. How do I learn to be present and enjoy this time without feeling like I'm going stir crazy? And how do I balance my passion while still doing what's best for my baby and for my family and protecting his nervous system.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Ooh, great questions. Okay, so can I answer you a third question that you're asking underneath all of this? First?

[Nicole]

Yes.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Okay. I need you to do me a favor. I need you to take both of Your hands and open them up and put them flat on a table.

[Nicole]

Okay.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Wherever you happen to be sitting. Okay. If you're just sitting in your car or something, put them on your legs. Okay. Okay. I want you to drop your shoulders as deep as you can. And I know it's hard to keep the phone up to your ear, but drop them all the way down. I want you to hear me very directly. Okay?

[Nicole]

Okay.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

You're a good mom.

[Nicole]

Thank you.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

You're a badass mom. Okay.

[Nicole]

Okay.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

And this little knuckleheaded boy won the freaking lottery getting you and his dad as his parents.

[Nicole]

Yeah.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Okay.

[Nicole]

Thank you.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

And you're not crazy. And for people listening, if you've never shown up at a scene and had to pull somebody out of a car and there's two bodies on the floor and there's screaming family members and cops everywhere, if you have not done that night after night after night, you don't have any idea the drug that is. Right?

[Nicole]

Yeah.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

And more importantly than the drug, if you've ever, never seen somebody come back to life. If you've never seen. Gotten that call at 4am on a call you ran at 11pm and somebody calls over the radio and says, hey, they're. They're doing okay. And you just exhale and you smile real big because you were part of saving somebody's life. If you've never been a part of that, you don't know what that feels like. Right?

[Nicole]

Yeah.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Okay. You're not crazy. You're a great mom. And we need more people like you out in the world. Okay.

[Nicole]

Thank you.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

So here's the deal. You said one thing that I want to double back on. Okay. This is just a season. That's number one. Number two, you tried. You tried some groups, and I so applaud you for that, but I don't know any die hard ride or die EMS folks that could stand 30 seconds in a library mom's group.

[Nicole]

Yeah.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Library mom's groups are amazing for folks who that's. They're amazing for you. Needs a couple of women in your life that you can sit around and drink coffee too early and swear a lot and tell really black humor jokes to that won't clutch their quilt that they're knitting and go, oh, dear. Do you have any of those women in your life?

[Nicole]

Yeah, I. I still work like 24 hours on the ambulance a month.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Good.

[Nicole]

I get to do that. And sometimes we go. We're on call, so we go get drinks or whatever.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Okay.

[Nicole]

Or I. I don't drink.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

I Was gonna say, don't drink anymore because you're pregnant. Yeah.

[Nicole]

So I do get that. But it's like one day a month, and it just, like, I feel like I'm just waiting every month for that day to come back again.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

That's right. That's right. So is there an opportunity for you to possibly do dispatch a few mornings a week to keep one toe in the game? And that's not the same thing as running the street, but it's still gonna man. The dispatchers. I know, like, those are. They're amazing, too, because the, like, the. The people out on the street are their. Their babies. It's amazing watching them. Right. Is there a way you could get into the game that way?

[Nicole]

Maybe in a year.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Okay.

[Nicole]

Right now, I mean, we're just putting everything aside to. My husband's been in construction. He's worked with family. It's kind of blown up. So we're putting everything into transitioning his career so he can go full time. And then after he. He's. Our plan is. Is that he's going to work fire season, and then I'm going to take a paramedic.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Okay. Here's what you've just told me, and I want to call you out on it. Okay. Because I love you. Okay.

[Nicole]

Okay.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

You're telling me on one hand that you're literally dying in your own skin. And the greatest gift a mother can give her kids is to feel alive in her own skin when she has a regulated nervous system. They do. Is that a lot of pressure? It's an insane amount of pressure. That's what we sign up for as parents. And on the other hand, you're telling me. But I've made this arrangement with my husband to basically dye my skin for a year or two and hang on, and then we'll go do something else. And anytime, anytime somebody has an either or, here's the thing I always want you to do. Sit down and write out, make up five new scenarios that might be opportunities. You don't have to do any of them. And three of them might just be absurd, but give them a shot, because here's what you're feeling. You're feeling trapped.

[Nicole]

Yeah.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

And you're not trapped. You've just made some choices. And the cool thing about making choices is you can make different ones.

[Nicole]

Yeah.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Or if you can't, if you're just stuck, stuck, stuck, stuck, stuck. Then the question I want to ask you is, where can you find some sort of purpose outside of being a mom? Because I. Dude, I know The Instagram reels are like, oh, my gosh. It's the per. It's tough for some people. Right? And then you get in that. The. What is it? The. It's the American motherhood guilt cycle. You can't win either way. Right. If the moment you think, man, I wish I was out on the street, it's like, oh, a good mom wouldn't think that. And then the moment you want to be at home and just be like, okay, I just need to suck it up and just be here for this kid. Then they're like, you know how many people are hurting on the streets and EMS are trying to hire and they don't have any. Like, you just can't win. Right?

[Nicole]

Yeah.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

And so I want you to opt out of that game completely. So let's take your husband's restrictions off. Let's take the motherhood guilt complex, industrial complex, shackles off. Let me just ask you directly, if you could snap your fingers starting Monday of next week, what would a week look like for you?

[Nicole]

If I could snap my fingers, I would be working two nights a week on the ambulances.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Okay. Can you do that at your stage of pregnancy?

[Nicole]

Yeah.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Okay, so what must be true for you to go run a shift two nights a week?

[Nicole]

What would be true?

[Dr. John DeLoney]

What must be true? Is there a teenager that you can hire to come watch the kids? Or can your husband just suck it up because it's a season for him too?

[Nicole]

Yeah, he's. He'd be willing to do that.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Is that a possibility?

[Nicole]

I think so.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Okay.

[Nicole]

I think I just. I think I feel like everything in my life has told me that this is the ultimate career for women, being home, and that I should be really good at it.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

I get that. I think you are good at it. I think what. What people think that it's gonna feel a certain way, and that's what's disorienting. Moms are told, this is the great. This is the greatest calling on earth. I happen to believe that. And it's this idea that this calling will, quote, unquote, feel good. And I'm of the opinion that often callings feel miserable. They're scary, they don't feel right, and to me, that's what makes them important. Similarly, flip it around. We would all say that showing up to a car wreck to be a helpful bystander is a great calling. Very few people can do that like you can. Right?

[Nicole]

Yeah.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Yeah. So I want to tell you your. Your idea. Like, I want to be a stay at home mom. I want to. You're 24. I'm gonna be a young mom. I'm gonna have a bunch of kids. I'm gonna be this awesome stay at home mom. I've got all these skills that I learned, Ems. My kids are gonna be so lucky if they ever get cuts or bruises or have, you know, whatever things go wrong or they fall off and break. And I've. I'm perfectly trained for this. And you're also not a bad mom. And you're a great human being and an amazing citizen to say, dude, a couple nights a week, I need to go just gas out. All of that is on the table, and all of that's okay. The one thing I want you to. I'll tell you, I'll say. I don't say it's not okay. But the one thing I would not recommend is waking up and hating your life thinking you're helping your husband and your kids.

[Nicole]

Yeah, I think that's where I've been.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Okay. The greatest gift you can give a husband is to have an alive life now for seasons, right? Like, if he's going to school and y' all just make this agreement, and you're just like, man, for 12 months, this is going to be miserable. I'm growing a human. I got a kid walking around going, can I have a snack? Can I have a snack? And probably if you're like the rest of us, you keep your radio on just so you can hear the action. And you're just sitting there foaming at the mouth like, I want to be. And you're not, right? Or some of your colleagues are still texting you, like, dude, you missed a crazy one last night. And so you got one toe in, but the rest of your body's like, I don't know what kind of work you're setting up, but if that's the case, you need to get some women who are five or ten years down the road that will come over to your house or that you can meet for coffee or that y' all can go for a walk, go for a run, or whatever you're doing, and you can just experience with them. And y' all are just. Y' all grinding it out for the next year while your husband gets out of training. Y' all can do that. Or. And just know I've got these feelings, and they're okay. I'm not a bad mom because I have these feelings. I'm not a bad citizen because I have these feelings. These feelings are just. I'm in a crummy season. It's cold outside, so I got to put a coat on. That's the season I'm in. Or you can back up and say, husband. I've tried this for a year. I'm kind of going stir crazy. I want to add one more shift a week. I want to add two. Two. Two nights a week. In fact, I'll work the 3 to 11 shift. Do y' all run eights or tens or twelves?

[Nicole]

12.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Okay, well, that's a long one. Maybe. Take a maybe. See if they'll split one with you. Take sixes.

[Nicole]

Okay.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

I don't know if they will, but just tell them you're pregnant and you're trying to be a good teammate. Surely some supervisor will split that with you. But we're just gonna run sixes and I'm gonna do two sixes a week and I'm just gonna get out there and help the community get that out of my system. And then the next morning, you know what you get to do?

[Nicole]

Sleeping.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

It's gonna be awesome. And you can hand your write ups to somebody else and say, hey, I'm pregnant. I can't do it. And you can smile real big and they'll be like, and they'll go do it for you. It'd be awesome. You get what I'm saying? Here's what I want you to do. I want you to say, okay, I've tried this for a year. My feelings are an alarm system. Just trying to give me clarity on what makes me feel good, what keeps me safe, what my purpose and role is in the world and how I best want to show up for my husband, for my kids and for my community. And let's reverse engineer that. And by the way, if you go to two nights a week and it's too much, in two weeks, drop down to one. And if then you get frustrated with your body as you go into second, third trimester and you can only do. You can do none. That's just bummer. It's deep winter and you got to wear a bunch of coats. It just stinks. And then. But the spring's coming, sun's going to come out. Do you get what I'm saying?

[Nicole]

Yeah.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

You are a great mom.

[Nicole]

Thank you.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

And you're a great wife.

[Nicole]

I'm really trying.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

I know you are. You are. You don't have to try. That's who you are. But I just want to, as a, as the husband of a wife, I want to tell you the times my wife and I have mutually sat down and said, okay, I'm about to enter into writing a book. I'm about to enter into my dissertation or she's about to enter into her writing or her dissertation or whatever. Those seasons are never fun, but we grind them out for each other because we're both building something in the future. And when she has the courage to say, hey, here's what I'm thinking about this upcoming season, what I really want to do, man, she comes alive. And I would much rather have an alive wife who's alive in her own skin, alive in our house, alive in our home, alive in her spirit, than one that's dead inside just going through the motions. And I think every other man would agree with me. Cool.

[Nicole]

Yeah, cool.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

All right. I'm glad to know women like you are out there and I'm glad to know that there's guys who want to get in bulldozers and try to make fire breaks in the middle of a crazy fire because I think that's insane. But we gotta have them. So kudos to you. Is that cool? My sister?

[Nicole]

Yeah.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

All right, hang on the line. I'm send you a copy of Building a non anxious Life as just a gift. I want you to read that book and you and your husband as first responders. I want you all to use this book as a roadmap for your home. You're a young first responder. You've been doing it for a long time, but you're still young and you've been around the 60 year old EMSers who are just look like catcher's mitts. They're just like I want y' all to build a non anxious life together. Y' all are both entering into other people's pain and challenge and that's there's a such an amazing high calling. But I want you all to do it in a way that will be sustainable. That y' all can do this for year after year after year and model that for the kids. I wouldn't trade my dad being a first responder for anything because I got to see what it looks like. It's amazing. Thank you so, so much for serving our communities and for being an amazing wife and mother. We come back, a woman wonders how she can help her son adjust to having half siblings. This show is sponsored by BetterHelp. Life can be a mess. You know what else can be a mess? Work. Your workplace can be so stressful. And when your regular life and your work life collide, your mind and your body in your soul feels it. There's plenty of data showing how workplace stress and especially your boss can have a major impact on your mental and emotional stress. Most of us just can't take a vacation from work whenever we want. But we can start with small steps to manage our work life stress and our home life stress. The first thing we got to do is keep our bodies and relationships strong. Exercise, sunlight, eating right, relationship check ins and when you need someone to sit with you and help you navigate things. Moving forward and getting a great therapist to help walk alongside you can be a game changer. If you're thinking about trying therapy, contact my friends at BetterHelp. BetterHelp is 100% online, which means it's affordable and convenient. To get started. Just fill out a short online survey to get matched with a licensed therapist. And as the largest online therapy provider in the world, BetterHelp can provide access to mental health professionals with a diverse variety of expertise. And BetterHelp has an app store rating of 4.9 out of 5 stars based on over get this 1.7 million client reviews. So manage your workday challenges and your home life stress with BetterHelp. Visit betterhelp.com DeLoney to get 10% off your first month. That's Better Help. H E L p.com DeLoney hto let's talk to Kathleen. What's up Kathleen?

[Nicole]

Hey Dr. John. How are you?

[Dr. John DeLoney]

I'm good. What's up with you?

[Nicole]

Not much. Thank you so much for taking my call. I appreciate it.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Of course. Thanks for calling in. What's up.

[Nicole]

So yeah, I'll just jump right into it. So I am a mom to a seven year old boy. My ex husband and I, we share 5050 custody and both of us are remarried. But pretty soon there will be a new baby at each of our homes. I'm due. Yes, I am due in September and my son's stepmom is due in January.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Congratulations across the board.

[Nicole]

Thank you. Very exciting time, Very exciting time. Lots of changes happening. But while I'm excited for the new chap, the struggle has been with the thought of my son being the only one going back and forth between two families.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

I've got it. I've got this one.

[Nicole]

Yeah.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

It sounds like you and your husband are acting like grownups, you know, good co parents.

[Nicole]

Yeah, I mean we for the most part I would say that our co parenting relationship is better than most. I mean he and myself and my husband and his wife, we all have a text message thread and we're all able to just communicate and show up like at baseball games and all that together. So our co Parenting relationship is pretty good.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

That's amazing. Hey, can I just shout, like, congratulations. Thank you.

[Nicole]

Well, thank you for being adults, for acting like that. Lots of hard work. I think that, you know, the animosity between me and my ex husband, when we split, we ultimately were like, you know what? No matter what has happened between the both of us, we're going to put our son first.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

That's so great.

[Nicole]

And so we are trying to do that. And I think we. I haven't really spoke to him directly about this issue because I just found out that his wife is pregnant. But I would be open to obviously sharing this. I'm just trying to figure out my own feelings and be there for my son as he's going to be like that. Only one going between those families and having a sibling at both houses and he's. I just want to be there for him.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

It's going to be amazing. It's going to be amazing. Here's what I want you to do. Okay? Seven year olds, and this is their. This is. This is prime. In the middle of the stage of development. Okay. And will be this way for the next three to five years. Are desperate for autonomy, ownership. What? Like my daughter's nine. She just wrote me, me and my wife, a 50 point presentation. By the way. She's raised by nerds and so clearly she's got the NER gene. She made us a 50 point presentation on why she should have a sister. But she wants a sister because she wants somebody to boss around. She wants to own something. Right? And so this is the stage that kids are in. So here's the hack. Starting right now, begin to refer to this new kid as his baby. That's it.

[Nicole]

Okay.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Your baby. Here's what little brothers or here's what big brothers. Here's what they do. What do you think a big brother would do if this were to happen? And we're talking little bitty things and he's like, oh, I'm gonna. I will. Here's what big brothers do. And you get to have two. Two babies.

[Nicole]

Yeah.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

And he will swell up with pride. And this is not something that you go ish. I want you to. I hate to use this language. I want you to sell it to him. Is that he's about to be on the adventure of his lifetime.

[Nicole]

Yeah.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

And when that baby's born. And I, by the way, I rolled my eyes at this, I was like, all right, doc. Oh, okay. I just started doing it. I'm telling you, it was wild. Even my son coming into. I Have a picture of him holding my daughter. I mean she's just minutes old and it's a picture of like the. On its little six year old face. This is mine. And it's such a powerful gift. And you could talk about, we're gonna have like so when we used to go fishing together. Well, now. Right. But when, when you're at their house, you get to fill in the blank. And when you're here, we get to. What do you think you're going to want to do with your sister? When. And then you can say things like, oh, she'll be too little to play catch, but you could lay on the floor and y' all could roll a ball, you could play with cards or you can hold her while you watch a TV show. All of it's about autonomy and ownership.

[Nicole]

That's good.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

And just start reiterating that all of the time. Do you want to come feel your sister? But you put your hand on my tummy and feel your sister.

[Nicole]

Yeah.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

And if your new husband wants to be like, really step into the role and have this conversation with your ex, start taking him out to breakfast once a week and just begin to slowly pepper in. What is the thing you're so excited about when your baby sister. When you get to be a big brother? When that. When your baby comes and maybe make a list. I don't know what I'm excited about. Like are you excited about. And fill in the blank. But your sense of he's going to experience some loss, there's some truth to that. Will he experience some frustration? Of course. But it's all going to be about ownership. And it's a young boy that's going to turn into a young man that's going to turn into a grown man. What all of the data tells us is that men or boys become men when they gain responsibility. And what an amazing gift for a young little seven year old boy to understand. Already he's got tiny little slivers of responsibility.

[Nicole]

Absolutely.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

And so I know it's scary. I know it's like, ah, how's it going to be? And can I address one more thing? This may not be with you, but it definitely was with me.

[Nicole]

Yeah.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

I did not understand the capacity of love that I had for love until I had my son. I didn't know I was capable of loving anybody or anything that much. And there was a lingering fear in my heart, in my mind that there's no way I could love another kid like him. And I just want to tell you the strangest Thing happens, another chamber of your heart will open up that you didn't know was there and just fills. And so your anxiety, your apprehension, how are we going to balance the houses? How are we going to explain to this new daughter that brother gets to go over there for a week, but not over. All of that stuff will be. They'll just be hard conversations, but we're just going to enter into them directly and be right on top of it all. And we're not going to shy away from anything because this is, we're the adults and these are the life choices we made. But you're going to love that new kid just like you love the old one. You're just going to be a little bit wiser of a parent, probably a little bit better as a parent. Like we all are.

[Nicole]

Yeah, absolutely. For sure.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Does that make sense?

[Nicole]

Yeah. Yeah. Is there anything I should. I guess, you know, as a seven year old, I see that that's like super exciting and it's a super exciting time. And I love that idea of him calling the babies like his babies. I think that that's phenomenal advice. Is there anything that me and my ex husband and my, my husband and my son's stepmom should be on like the lookout for as he's getting older? Like any feelings of, you know, oh man, like, why am I the only one going back and forth between two houses? Or, you know, I just, I know that coming as a kid from I, my parents wouldn't have divorced. But reading everything after about, you know, the statistics of kids with divorced parents and having that struggle, even if you have emotionally, there's going to be obviously some consequences that come with that and having the kids deal with that. Is there anything we should be on the lookout for as he's getting older and how to be emotionally available for him? It's like he starts feeling like questioning, like, why am I the only one going back and forth?

[Dr. John DeLoney]

I, I don't think you take that struggle from him. And by the way, the data on divorced households. Oh, not all of it. Obviously there's always going to be challenges with childhood outcomes of divorce, but a lot of that can be ameliorated if adults act like adults. That's why I'm so happy to hear how you guys are. Are operating.

[Nicole]

Absolutely.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

If y' all are super gangsters and all four of y' all could go to dinner and just say, hey, we're all just, everybody's about to have a big life change. Their marriage is about to change. Your marriage is about to be radically different. Right? Your sex life's about to be different. Your finances are about to be different. So you and your husband going and getting on the same page about, like, hey, our life's about to blow up again, and let's just talk about it and go walk through it, because we've never done this together. We've both done it individually, or you have, he hasn't. But we've never done this together. Let's talk about it. I'm thinking about, like, when I had surgery, I went to prehab. I went and worked out a whole bunch with a specialist before my surgery, and it really helped the recovery. That's what we're doing here. We're about to blow our whole marriage up and start a new one. Let's go ahead and talk about what that's going to look like, right? And I'm thinking about, like, the building's gonna explode. Have you ever seen those control demos when they're, like, knocking an old building down and there's teams that go in there and they. They very carefully and, like, surgically put the dynamite all over so it implodes on itself and has the least. That's what y' all are doing because everything's gonna change. And if y'. All. All four can go to coffee and just say, hey, we're all going to be here for our kid. We're all gonna be on the same page. And he's going to ask at some point, why do I get to go back and forth? And I think you tell him, you get to go to two places.

[Nicole]

You get two.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

You got two sisters at the same time or two brothers at the same time, or what? Like, that's amazing. But also, he might just want to stay at home with his mom, and you can sit with him and say, that's. Those are big feelings. And I have that feeling, too, when you go. But you're. But your daddy loves you a whole lot, and your stepmom loves you a whole lot. And this is the arrangement we made. You get two houses, you get two Christmases, and he might put his head on your shoulder and say, mommy, I wish y' all just lived in the same. I wish we had our old. Like, I get that those feelings are big. I get that. But I'll sit here with you and don't try to take him from him. Don't try to say, it's all going to be okay. Don't try to say, like, oh, don't worry about it, because that just makes him feel like his Feelings or broken. Like he, like his mind doesn't work, his heart doesn't work. Just say, I'll sit here with you while you're sad, when he's packing up to go to dad's for the weekend or for the week. Right, I get that.

[Nicole]

Yeah.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

But you've probably already experienced some of that now, haven't you?

[Nicole]

Yeah, absolutely. I mean, there's definitely been conversations before of, you know, him. Just some. Some weeks will be great, and then some weeks he'll be like, hey, why, why don't I. Why can't I be back in one house with you and dad? And you just let him sit in those conversations? And both my husband and his stepmom are so good. And it's just such a blessing to be able to have that. And I know it is. And we just, we do sit with him and I think that just adding this element, I just. As a mom who wants to be the most aware possible. I just want to be there for him in every capacity.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

I think being there for him is amazing. Don't let any sort of mom guilt you have or divorce guilt you have take away the struggle that he feels. Because if you run in there and try to rescue him from hard feelings, what he's. The message he's going to get is, I don't think you're strong enough. I think you're. You're weak. And little boys and little girls can't. I mean, that just devastates them. I'll sit with you, I'll hold your hand. I'll cry with you. I might tell you that I get sad about it sometimes, too. I remember the old days too sometimes. But I'm not going to take that from you. I'm just going to sit here with you while you're sad. And then you'll know he's your boy. You'll know if things start spiraling out right, you'll see his grades drop. You'll see him. Him act out. And by the way, if he acts out at one of the houses, totally normal, like you're. There's not something wrong with him. I would expect him to have some attitude issues or some want to bulk or really connect with one kid. One kid might scream all the time. The other kid, the new baby, might be amazing. Just love being held. He's. I mean, that's going to be natural. And you can't force him to like one kid and not feel like that's just gonna be part of it. But I think it's preparing him for dude you're about to have two new babies and it's gonna be awesome. Maybe I'll start drawing pictures for these new babies or coloring pictures for the new babies so when they get there, they've got pictures on their room and he can, you can maybe get them framed for one house and then for the other house and you can say, big brothers make sure their little sisters feel beautiful all the time. And so we're going to draw pictures and put them on the wall or we're going to write something that says you're beautiful and put it on there, like those kind of little things. But it's just gonna be about teaching him little tiny slivers of responsibility and ownership. And I saw it happen in my own life. I would not have believed that that little hack would be so powerful, but boy, was it. It was amazing. Thank you so, so much for the call, Kathleen, and thank you and your husband and your both your new spouses for being awesome adults, awesome grown up adults and trying to make the best of a tough situation. We'll be right back. It's summertime and we gotta keep our exercise routines going. And listen, I grew up playing sports and in weight rooms my whole life. And a few years ago, I realized that I took for granted how scary and insecure and even lost people can feel. Just wandering into a gym or a weight room or even like weight room classes for the first time. And now that I'm getting older, I find myself wanting to sleep in a little bit more. And I find myself walking into a traditional gym and looking around and thinking, dude, I don't even know where to start. We all have to exercise. We all have to move our bodies. We got to lift weights. Men, women, young and old, we all need to lift heavy things and move around. But knowing what to do, when to do, and even how to do it can be super intimidating. So whether you've been lifting and working out for decades or you're ready to get started for the very first time, I want you to check out my friends at trainwell. I've used their workouts. My wife and my friends use them. Kelly, the show producer, my sister. Everybody's a Train well devotee. It's a movement. Train well offers tailored workouts with step by step guidance from real people. That means it's not just an app and it's not just a personal trainer. It's the best of both worlds and you can use it anywhere at home, at the gym, or on vacation. To get started, you just take a short quiz and you get matched with a real life coach, someone who actually listens and together works with you to build a plan that works for your body and your season of life and your goals. They have videos that give you step by step guidance. And your trainer will check in with you after your workouts. Now is the time to take control of your body once and for all. Check out my friends at trainwell. And right now, Trainwell has a special offer for my audience. 89 bucks a month when you lock in your plan, plus 14 days of free training. Go to trainwell.netDeloney right now and check them out. That's trainwell.netDeloney all right, we're back. So Kelly went to a movie. She won't stop talking about it. It's not that movie. What do you think, Kelly? What's the movie?

[C]

So it's very popular. It's Thunderbolts.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

All right, so we're gonna do spoiler alerts. Are we spoiling? I haven't seen it yet, so yes.

[C]

Spoiler alert. So in here, out there in the world, the movie's been out a long time, a while now.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

So thunderbolts, like. And you don't want to click off. Click off.

[C]

Yeah. Fast forward.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

All right, so what happens in the Thunderbolts movie?

[C]

So it's a marvel. It's a superhero movie, but it's extremely different than most of them. And the gist is that this is kind of a ragtag, like, almost antihero version. It's none of the Iron Man, Captain America, none of these guys. But there's one guy who is a meth head with. He's got quite a bit of mental health issues. And he ends up, through various things that happen, being made into this, like, ultimate superhero. He could do all of the things that they can all do. Which sounds great, except it also made his demons that much bigger as well, because, you know, it goes back to the whole idea of money or wealth or fame or whatever. Just makes you more of who you are.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Just a magnifier. That's right. Yeah.

[C]

And none of these things that were causing his addictions or his mental health issues were dealt with. So they are still there. And they are huge now. And through the movie, those demons start to take over because they're as they were when he was, quote, unquote normal. They take over because he doesn't know how to deal with them. He has not gotten any help on them, but they take over in such a way that it starts to take over the whole city. You know, again, Superheroes. But what was so cool about it was as these demons were ravaging him and the city as well and beating him, that this, the group, the other thunderbolts, the group physically come around him and grab him. And they make it clear that we are here with you. We're going to get through this with you. And the whole idea that you cannot get through mental health challenges alone, that you have to have a community. And how they physically, I mean, they were holding him and hugging him and saying, we've got you. We're here. We're going to do this together. That he was able then to start to beat the demons, not immediately. He had work to do, but that he had a community to do it with, was such a change from anything I've seen in any, much less a superhero movie. It had such a mental health component to this movie and how important that is. It was amazing. It was so cool to see because I keep thinking of how many young men are gonna see this movie, how many. This is a guy, you know, it's a superhero. You can go with your dad and all that kind of stuff. And my husband and my son went and saw it the week afterwards. And even my husband said, man, that was great. Cause they're speaking to a group of people that probably don't want to hear the mushy talk about your feelings and all that. But that's what it was about. And it was such a cool idea. And I'm so glad that we're seeing that in mainstream media that it's so important to have community. You can't fight it alone. And all the money and fame and power and whatever in the world doesn't make the demons go away.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

It makes them bigger and stronger and wealthier and louder.

[C]

You have to do the work to make those go away so that you can then be who you're supposed to be.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

And what you just said just now, I think it triggered something in me. Trigger. That's a bad word. It enlightened me on something. I think when my wife hears the phrase go do the work, she has a very clear picture of what that means. I think when most men, and young men especially, hear the words, I gotta go do the work, they hear, I gotta get stronger, I gotta get tougher, I gotta get louder, I gotta get more fierce. And I think the work is, I gotta let people love me. I've got to let people hear me. And if you don't have that skill set or you're super powerful and successful over here in whatever your domain is. Right. And it could be you're the associate director of the mail room. It doesn't mean you're like the president of the of the world. Right? But wherever you have your little, little kingdom, the work is. I'm gonna exhale and let y' all in. That's amazing, dude. Good for you. That's awesome. I like that story. Appreciate you sharing that.

[C]

It was great. I highly recommend people see it, especially if you have teenage boys and stuff at home. Yeah, man, what an important message.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

I love, love that. And I guess the meta for me is men. In this new year, I'm coming after you. I'm not coming after you. I'm coming alongside you. The world needs a whole bunch of men who actually know what being masculine looks like. And it's a new third way. And one of those ways is letting other people love you. In fact, it's the only way. Thanks for sharing that, Kelly. That's awesome. Love you guys. Bye.