← The Dr. John Delony Show
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- [00:06]
Tara
So I talked about role playing or just, you know, having sex in a different place in the house because it's 99.9% of the time in our bedroom, which is fine. And so for him, he's like, our bedroom is comfortable. It's private. Why would I want to have sex anywhere else? And for me, I'm like, just to switch things up, to add variety, to make it more exciting.
- [00:29]
Dr. John DeLoney
What up? What's going on? What's going on? This is John of the Dr. John DeLoney Show. Glad that you are with us saving minds and sa. We're not saving anything. We're just trying to figure out what's the next right move for people who are struggling and hurting all over the world. The show's about your mental and emotional health, your kids, your marriages, your dating relationships, whatever you got. And I'm grateful that you reach out. People call from all over and they are brave and they are honest, and I'm super grateful. You want to be on the show, Give me a buzz at 1-844-693-3291 or go to johndalony.com ask and what's up, Kelly?
- [01:12]
Ben Hill
We have a special holiday today.
- [01:14]
Dr. John DeLoney
Here in the booth we do the great and powerful Ben Hill, best known for the lead singer of the band dump button, which is just incredible. Also the lead singer of the band 90 Day Plan because he's a multitasker. It's your birthday, dude. Happy 21st. Oh, thank you. Yeah, it's a drinking one. This is a big one, dude. It is. It's a big one. How old are you? 33. 33. Yeah. So you, if you slap it up, flip it, reverse it, and go back to like 16 year old Ben. Is this how you drew it up? No, no, none of this. My wildest dreams. Couldn't imagine this. Yeah. Just sitting on headphones listening to my voice while you edit and edit and edit. Most people don't know this show is about four hours long and you have to make it into about an hour show. Yeah, me and Sarah just pulling, pulling this together. Golly. Well, dude, happy birthday, man. Thank you. You have anything fun planned? Going to Kentucky for family get together, Thanksgiving next couple days. And I don't know if I could draw up a less fun birthday party for you. I'm still thinking about it. All right, well, I still remember we went to the under oath show last time and it was. That was rad off the chain. All right, let's go out to Alberta, Canada, and talk to the great Tara. What's Up, Tara.
- [02:40]
Tara
So my question would be, how do I get my husband to be interested in trying new things in the bedroom?
- [02:47]
Dr. John DeLoney
Tell me about. Tell me about what you're working on.
- [02:51]
Tara
So currently in my relationship, I'm the one who wants to be intimate daily. I'm the one who wants to spice things up in the bedroom. I've talked to him about this, and he feels like I'm implying that our sex life is boring because I'm asking to try new things. I assured him that I don't find it boring, and I would just like to add some variety. And I've talked to him about it. What I'm interested in or would love to explore. I am met with disinterest or a no. He says he's fine with what we're doing, and I feel like we're just kind of at a stalemate.
- [03:20]
Dr. John DeLoney
Oh. Huh. So when he pushed back, I'm interested in this little. This little. It's almost a derailment, but I think we may find some answers here. When he pushed back and said, oh, so you think this is boring? Tell me about that interaction.
- [03:39]
Tara
So he just implied that, or he felt that by me sharing that I just wanted to try new things, that I was implying that he was boring or not a good lover. And I was like, no, no. And I tried to give him an analogy of when our kids try new foods. You know, they can't say they don't like it if they've never tried it. You know, they need to try it first before they can say, yeah, they love it. No, they don't. And so he understood the analogy, but he was still kind of like, it's not the same thing, and I'm just not interested.
- [04:06]
Dr. John DeLoney
So give me some examples of some things you would love to try.
- [04:11]
Tara
So I talked about role playing or just, you know, having sex in different places in the house, because it's 99.9% of the time in our bedroom, which is fine. And so for him, he's like, our bedroom is comfortable. It's private. Why would I want to have sex anywhere else? And for me, I'm like, just to switch things up, to add variety, to make it more exciting.
- [04:29]
Dr. John DeLoney
Sure.
- [04:30]
Tara
And so for him, I think he's just like, why? Why would I do that? I'm fine with our bedroom, you know, where we don't have to worry about our kids walking in. And I think he just likes the privacy of it.
- [04:44]
Dr. John DeLoney
So underneath that, I hear somebody saying, hey, I want to add some life to our life. And he says, no, I'm good. Where are other places in his life where you see him, for lack of better terms? I don't want to over dramatize. I don't want to connect these two closely, but where he's dying in his own skin. He comes home and he just drops his backpack down and he grabs a drink and sits on the couch, or he goes outside and he's like, hey. And then he goes in the bathroom for 30 minutes and scrolls on his phone. Like, is that the case? Do you watch the guy that you married slowly, I don't know, losing life force, if you will?
- [05:32]
Tara
He would say, like, he's just not a guy that's excited about much. Like, even if we have a trip planned to, like, Disney World or whatever it is, or if it's daily things, he's just not excited. Like, he just doesn't get excitement, which I don't really understand.
- [05:46]
Dr. John DeLoney
Has he never got excitement, or is this not really? Okay, because. Because when. Whenever. I always want to look at trend lines. Are you seeing him become something over time that is. Is starting to make you go, oh, no, no, no, no, no. I. I want a different kind of life. Or is this the person you've known, always been with, and you realize, okay, we. I want to recreate. I want to not recreate, but I want to rebuild our relationship into something new. Will you come with me? Right.
- [06:18]
Kelly
Yeah.
- [06:18]
Tara
I want. I want to rebuild something new for sure.
- [06:20]
Dr. John DeLoney
Okay. That starts with you being honest. And I think the honesty is. I mean, that's hard to say. Okay. I want to try some new things in the bedroom. And especially depending on what culture you're in, that can be really vulnerable for a woman to say that and then to be turned down. Right. Because you're trained your whole life, all guys want is this sex all the time, and it has to be crazy. And what. And so then you find yourself, like, am I the only woman I know? Like, I want to do this all the time. I want to do it every day. I want to do it in different rooms. I want it, like, I want more and more and more. And you begin to ask yourself, what's wrong with you? Is that fair?
- [06:58]
Tara
Right.
- [06:58]
Dr. John DeLoney
Okay, so let me ask you that same question. Where. Where are you finding yourself dying in your own skin? How long have you been married?
- [07:08]
Tara
We've been married for 17 years.
- [07:10]
Dr. John DeLoney
17 years. You got kids?
- [07:12]
Tara
Yes, we have two. They're teenagers.
- [07:14]
Dr. John DeLoney
Okay, so do you have this moment where you're sinking in, like, oh, this is my life, or do you just Want wild sides? Yeah.
- [07:22]
Tara
I guess everything just feels, I guess a lot of people, it just feels very mundane. Like every day is the same. You go to work, you, you know, tend to your kids, you make dinner. And every day is kind of like a repeat. So it's. It's like in the bedroom, we can do whatever we want. We can have fun, we can, you know, it should be playful. We can do anything. And it just feels like if that's also mundane and also the same, it's just like it'd be nice to try something new and feel excitement, I guess.
- [07:46]
Dr. John DeLoney
Yes. Like you. You have put your finger on the pulse of, I think, 95% of North America right there. Like, so much of our life is bills, going to work, getting kids to soccer, getting kids to school and whatever. And we shut the door, we have our own hour and a half just to play. Become somebody that we don't have to be all the time. Try things, laugh, get awkward, like, whatever. And it can be gut wrenching when your partner says, nah, I don't want to do that. Yeah, but that means you have to be honest. Talk about the thing beneath the thing, which is you're not a guy who gets excited about much. I get that I'm suffocating in the world that we have co created together. Will you build something new with me? And I know that his first impulse would not be to have sex on the kitchen table or just to walk in when the kids are gone and rip your shirt off and like. And like, show some initiative. Right? That. That wouldn't be his first impulse. But the question is, would you do that for me? And if he looks at you and says, no, I won't, then that's the deeper conversation. Because that is not just about sex. That's about playfulness, life. That's about a marriage that is going through the motions. And the bedroom is just like. It's just the alarm bell. Right?
- [09:14]
Tara
And I've talked to him about that and, you know, I've shared, you know, what I'm interested in and whatever. And he said, I'm just not that guy. Like, if you want me to do xyz, like, I'm just not into that, or that doesn't do anything for me, or, like, that's cool that you're into it, but, like, I just won't ever do that. Like, I'm not that guy. Like, you know, rol, plane does nothing for me. I don't want to pull over on the side of the road and have sex in the car. Like, I just. I'm not going to do those things. And so then I just feel like.
- [09:40]
Dr. John DeLoney
Is there some common ground on things that we would do together or are there baby steps? So maybe there's not pull over on the side of the road, but when the kids are in bed will be a little bit risky, and we'll go downstairs and have sex in the car, in the. In the. In the garage. Or, like, yeah, he.
- [09:57]
Tara
He wouldn't want to because he's like, that's not comfortable. Why would I do that? Like, he doesn't even want to have. You know, he doesn't want to be intimate downstairs because, again, it's like, what if the kids get up to get a drink of water and they hear us or see us?
- [10:08]
Dr. John DeLoney
Or.
- [10:08]
Tara
He just doesn't want to have risk at all.
- [10:11]
Dr. John DeLoney
But for you, that's. That's part of the spice, right? That's part of the, like. Yeah, we could get caught. Like the old days, like when we used to make out, we could get caught, right? And like, that's. That's part of the. The feeling alive again. I guess what I would tell you is I'm worried about the trajectory, and here's why. I'm worried about the trajectory of your marriage. What you did was a pretty vulnerable thing. And I'm not saying that in. In. And this goes both ways, both genders, right? So normally. And I. I'm. I'm inside of a bell curve here. Although this is shifting radically right under our noses, historically speaking. It's the guys who are like, I just want to try some cool stuff. I want to try new things. And she won't, she won't, she won't, she won't. We're seeing it more and more and more and more where women are like, dude, I just want. Like, it's my husband that won't have sex with me over. And I'm hearing that over and over again, whether it's hrt. I mean, whether it's hormone replacement and testosterone. Like, who knows what it is? But you did something pretty vulnerable, which is you sat down with the person that you said, I'm with you forever. Here's what I need. And he said no. And not only did he say no, he said, I'm not even going to entertain it. Meaning I get if you were like, I want you to dress up like a cop and come bang on the door and scare the kids. Like, I get him being like, man, I'm not comfortable with that. My fear is you're going to run into somebody at after school event or dropping your daughter off, and you're going to get the sense right away, oh, this person's adventurous, a little bit flirty. And that's when you enter the text. And that's right. So it. You head down a road, man, which I hope you don't do. I hope you have the. The integrity not to do that, but, man, it just sets a table for it.
- [11:49]
Tara
Yeah. And I've told him that, like. Like, this is. You're the only person I get to do life with. Like, I don't get to do this with anybody else. I can't seek, you know, what I'm desiring outside of our relationship. And I wouldn't do that. And so it's like, this is it. And so it's like, if he's not willing, not interested, it's kind of like I have to, I guess, mourn that it will just never happen. Like, I don't know. Yeah, I think for him, too, sex is deeply uncomfortable to talk about because we both come from a conservative background. And so to even talk about it, especially for me initially, and to be vulnerable, like you said, and to put yourself out there, it's terrifying.
- [12:24]
Dr. John DeLoney
Yeah.
- [12:24]
Tara
And so for him, he's like. He's like, man, you. You're comfortable talking about sex. I'm like, not really, but, like, I'm tired of keeping it inside. Like, I need to say something.
- [12:32]
Dr. John DeLoney
But also, y'all made kids, but I. I can't wrap my head around this. Just uncomfortable to talk about. Have made. Y'all made humans. You made kids. You built a life together. And to have a thing that we can't talk about or feels unsafe to talk about, I think that's the pulse. That's where I want y'all to go get with a marriage counselor and go talk about that. Because here's. Here's the question you begin to ask yourself beneath the why doesn't he find me attractive? Or why won't he try these things that I would love to try in the bedroom? Beneath that, it is, what is it about me that makes him feel like he can't talk to me about stuff? And that's deeply intimate. Like, that's. That's identity. Right. Why is there secrets that he can't tell me or won't tell me? And for him just to. For anybody just to say, ah, that's just weird. I don't talk about it. You've been married 17 years. I've been together two decades. I just don't buy that excuse Obviously don't do things you don't feel safe and comfortable with in the bedroom. Get that. Obviously every. Every long arc of a relationship, people are going to try stuff that initially they're like, I don't even know how this is possible. But okay, right. Like, that's every relationship. And you have to find that balance. And it's a balance of this is too far uncomfortable for me, or this is way out of my comfort zone. But you and I have come up with a safety plan and we're going to make this okay. All right. All right, I'm in. Like, every couple navigates that. Everyone.
- [14:03]
Tara
Right.
- [14:04]
Dr. John DeLoney
And I would even go as far to say is not. No one is ever 1,000%. Like, all. Yeah. Like, everyone's super 100% in. Like, right. You're co creating a thing together. What I would say that I find distressing here is the lack of willingness to talk about it. It's just a shutdown, right?
- [14:25]
Tara
That's his. I guess that's his thing is if we're talking about something hard, whether it's sex or whatever it is, he just kind of shuts down or disengages or just kind of leave the room. Whereas I'm the person who's like, let's talk about this now. Let's dive into it. Let's fix this, let's repair. And he's very much the avoidance and.
- [14:41]
Dr. John DeLoney
Yeah. And that to me, that's a. That's a fear of intimacy. That's a fear of if she truly knows me, if she. If she knows how little I know or how scared I am, or if she truly knows me, she gonna leave if she truly knows me. And. And it wouldn't surprise me if he comes from a highly performative childhood. Like, you will sing and dance, and if you sing and dance incorrectly and you don't make mom and dad look great, then you pay a price for it. And so you learn over time. I don't do hard things. I'm doing uncomfortable things. I shut this system down. I'm off. I'm out. And when you decide to do life with somebody, you decide I'm gonna. Gently and safely. If it's okay for both of us, if it's safe for both of us, we're gonna open these cans back up because that's the only way you don't starve the other person for affection. And for everybody listening, this call starts with, I want to do more adventurous things in the bedroom. We're the only one we're ever going to have let's try some wild things. Let's have some fun. Let's like, I love your words. Let's be playful. Let's, let's elevate the, the boringness and let's have some fun. But that's a symptom of a bigger conversation, which is I don't talk about money. Hey, I need you more present. I don't. I'm doing best I can. Hey, would you ever be interested in trying this in the bedroom? I don't talk about that kind of stuff. And that's what drowns relationships. The actual acts that happen in the bedroom is a, it's just a, it's blinking lights on an alarm, right? It's. They're, they're traffic lights of. Are we both flying down the road together arm in arm? Build something new. Build something rad. No brakes. All gas pedals together. This show is sponsored by BetterHelp. Hey, good folks, listen. We all have stories. We have the family and cultural stories that we were born into. We have the stories of the good and the challenging things that have happened to us. And we have the stories that we are constantly telling ourselves. We've got the stories of our past and the stories we have yet to write about our futures. And they're all powerful. And while you can't go back and change any of your old stories, the world is waiting to see what story you're going to write next. As we enter 2025, I want to encourage you to examine and even heal your old stories and be intentional about the new ones you're writing. And I'm not talking about goals that will be long gone by February. I'm talking about new stories that will change your life forever for the better. And if you're like me, therapy can be a great place to explore the old stories and begin writing new ones. Maybe think of your therapist as your editorial partner, helping you write new, better stories. If you're considering therapy, I want you to try calling my friends at Better Help. 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BonCharge offers easy returns and exchanges and a 12 month warranty on all red light therapy devices. Go to boncharge.com DeLoney and use code DeLoney to save 15% off your order. That's B O N C H A R-G-E.com DeLoney and use code DELONEY to save 15%. All right, let's go out to Seattle, Washington, home of Pearl Jam and talk to Aaron. What's up, Aaron? How we doing?
- [19:55]
Kelly
Hi Dr. John, how are you?
- [19:57]
Dr. John DeLoney
I'm good. How are you?
- [19:59]
Kelly
I'm doing pretty good. So my question is how do I look forward to having kids some more specifically? I'm 26, I've been married for about three and a half years and I've watched my friends, lots of my friends have their first and second babies and it just does not look fun.
- [20:22]
Dr. John DeLoney
So. Well, yeah. Yes. And I, I guess, I guess what I would like out of the gate. I would say fun can't be your metric for life. If you're asking the question is this fun? You're never gonna go through hard times in the gym that get you stronger. If your questions are is this fun? You're never gonna like have mind the depths of your marriage because the only way you get to the other side where you feel tethered and united with a person is. You'll have to go through hell together. And it. So it's so I think until you shift your metric, it doesn't look fun. I mean, just look at it on paper. It's, it's a, it's a bad algorithm. It's going to cost you money. It's going to blow your marriage up for a while. It's going to change your sex life. I mean, it's going to change all the stuff.
- [21:14]
Kelly
That's just what I don't like. I mean, looking at my situation specifically, like, I have overbearing in laws. I've battled insecurities with my body all my life. I just graduated with my masters and I'm just so excited for my career. And like you said, it's a terrible investment. And just everything that goes into having a baby just feels like an uphill battle and I'm just, I'm just dreading it. I'm dreading it.
- [21:41]
Dr. John DeLoney
And except let me, let me push back what life you've painted. Do you mind asking how old you are?
- [21:49]
Kelly
I'm 26.
- [21:50]
Dr. John DeLoney
Okay, 26. Yeah, you told me that. So I'm going to tell you something as an old man, mid-40s. Okay.
- [21:57]
Tara
Okay.
- [21:57]
Dr. John DeLoney
Your generation and I, I'm responsible for your generation. I was an educator for 20 years in high school and universities. Okay. I'm responsible. We told you guys that the path towards a great life was the avoidance of painful things. If you have body, if you've always had body image issues. I have to my whole life and I can't hold a candle to what women go through. The path is not avoidance of bringing, like watching your heart grow a new chamber as it wraps around this new life. And avoiding that because of some past challenges. The work is. I'm heading straight through that body image challenge. Your overbearing in laws are going to be chaotic and overbearing. Why don't you have kids? Where's my grandkids? I can't believe you married her. Oh my gosh. She's too. She doesn't look right. She's. It's not going to go away. It's going to amplify either way. So the work is not to avoid the in laws, it's to go right through it. And that means you have to have hard conversations with your husband about are you going to still be mommy's boy? Are you going to be my husband? And when it comes to career, dude, career is amazing. Career is amazing. And careers become a drug for the modern, like, western world to avoid the hard, messy, gritty reality that is depth and life. What did you get your masters in?
- [23:34]
Kelly
Accounting.
- [23:35]
Dr. John DeLoney
Accounting. So you're gonna go get.
- [23:37]
Kelly
I just recently also passed the CPA exam.
- [23:39]
Dr. John DeLoney
Congratulations. So you're gonna go. Are you gonna go be work at a big firm? Are you gonna go do boutique stuff?
- [23:46]
Tara
A big firm, Big public firm.
- [23:47]
Dr. John DeLoney
Awesome. High respect for that. And the moment their executive team gets a whiff that they're going to miss a Q number, they're going to lay off 10% of you guys, and they will have that job filled at the beginning of the next quarter. Without you. Yeah. And so on the other side, My God, I can't. I can't. I can't do the math. The math doesn't work. And that leads me to believe that kind of like this. I heard. I heard a famous attorney once say, you never use a gallon of milk to measure how far something is from something else. But a measurement in a gallon is. Right. It's a great measurement. When you're get. When you're measuring, like, milk or. Or whatever, or when it comes to, like, how much tequila Kelly drinks on a regular basis, like you, you measure gallons, it's good. But you don't use a gallon to measure how far a football field is. Similarly, algorithms are good. Math problems are good. That's not what you. That's not the measurement you use when you talk about creating life. And here's all I can tell you. Here's what I can tell you. The data tells me that, yes, your marriage takes a dip, but it takes a dip. If your metric is fun and your metric is quote unquote happy, which I think happy is cocaine and cotton candy. I don't think that's even a good metric. And it also takes a hit when couples are not intentional about understanding that our life is going to change and it's going to be different. Most couples have a kid and they keep saying this phrase, I just want to get back to the way it was instead of recognizing, I can't believe we get to make what happens next. Do you get what I'm saying?
- [25:42]
Kelly
Yeah.
- [25:43]
Dr. John DeLoney
So I can tell you this is personal. This is just me. I have one regret in my life, and that's that I didn't have more kids. That's it. I said some stupid things I wish I could take back. Actually, I regret a few of those. I've heard some people. But globally speaking, I wish I had more kids. And that's just me. It's not for everybody. But I am. I just don't believe a person can fully understand their capacity to love something or someone until they are staring at a reflection of themselves in their hands, until they're staring at a loved one, a kid, whether through adoption, whether through personal care, like, it's just amazing. And it will cost you money and it'll. You'll lose sleep, you won't progress as fast in your career. And all those things are true. So let me ask you this. Why are you asking the question?
- [26:36]
Kelly
I mean, I also grew up in the church, and, you know, like, every girl's dream is to be a mom. That's not every girl.
- [26:45]
Dr. John DeLoney
Bad churches tell you that, but that's not true. And so it sounds to me like you're watching your friends suffer. You've. You've been told this message by me and countless other professors and friends and family forever, and you're haunted by, I want to have a kid. It doesn't make any sense. It's almost like you're trying to make it make sense because that's what you want to do. Am I wrong?
- [27:05]
Kelly
Yeah. I mean, it's. I mean, it's. The only thing I can hold on to is like, you know, with being a Christian, you. You need to get married, you need to have kids so then you can carry on Christianity through the earth. And that's what we're called to do. We're called to be fruitful and multiply and carry on, you know, And I come from a great family, and let me just say family's great.
- [27:29]
Dr. John DeLoney
Let me just. Let me free you from this. God's a big boy. He can take care of himself. He's. He's. He's. He's got things figured out. If you believe in God, you have to believe he's got things figured out.
- [27:42]
Kelly
Yeah.
- [27:43]
Dr. John DeLoney
So the question is, who are you going to be when you walk into that accounting firm? If you're a person of faith, who are you going to be as a mom? Who are you going to be as someone who says, as for me in my house, we're not going to have kids? I think that's the, that's the theological answer that most people have to wrestle with.
- [28:04]
Kelly
I want, like, when I picture life, I. I picture when they're 16, when they're 20, when they, when they're adults, when. And, you know, but I don't picture. I can't see. I mean, I see awful. Me doing awful things when they're, you know, a week old, screaming in the middle of the night. They've been fed, they've been changed, they've been everything, every need they have has.
- [28:30]
Tara
Been taken care of.
- [28:30]
Kelly
But they won't stop crying in the middle of the night. And I'm, you know, sleep deprived and exhausted. And you know, and I understand that like, you're never going to be sleep deprived until like truly sleep deprived until.
- [28:43]
Tara
You'Ve cared for a baby.
- [28:45]
Kelly
Like, so I just, that part of their life, I can't. And it's the very first part, it's the very beginning and it's years. So it's just hard mentally to like get past or be okay with.
- [29:03]
Dr. John DeLoney
Yeah, I get that. I get that. And you're not wrong.
- [29:08]
Kelly
I can accept when they're 16 and they're being a brat. Like, I can handle that. I know I can learn how to do it.
- [29:13]
Dr. John DeLoney
But yeah, but yeah, my kids getting close and I thought I was already and it's like, man, but here's, here's the thing. The math isn't going to work out.
- [29:29]
Kelly
Yeah.
- [29:30]
Dr. John DeLoney
Like there's going to be trying to preempt scary times and hard times and frustrating times in any job, in any relationship, in any, any endeavor is a fool's errand because a, you never know how extraordinary it's going to be on the other side and our bodies are designed for. But what if it all goes wrong? Right. That's how our bodies have survived all these gajillions of years and with some intentionality. So as you're talking, I'm thinking, yeah, we're going to give that overbearing mother in law a role if she wants it. We're going to not include that overbearing mother in law. But I'm going to have three high school kids that come over and spend the night with me sometime so I can sleep. Like, I'm just thinking of one solution after another after another that kept my family's head screwed on straight.
- [30:28]
Kelly
Can you, can we walk through some of those, like, I just solutions?
- [30:31]
Tara
I, I, I guess I just don't.
- [30:32]
Kelly
Know what they are, I guess.
- [30:33]
Dr. John DeLoney
Yeah. So I, so the first one is no woman should be alone with a crying baby. And that's the way we've built our, our modern western society. That a brilliant, like, competent, amazing woman comes home, she's pulled from her job, she's pulled from her social circles, she's pulled from her spouse, and she sits in a box with a screaming toddler for months, sometimes for years. That's insane. That's never happened in all of human history for all of human history. There were kids and cousins and grandparents. There's actually some pretty remarkable conversations around. I say conversations in the literature about grandmothers, like, what's the utility? Like, once they, like if you're, if it's pure biology, right? Like reproduce and that's the species that, like, why would grandmothers hang around? What's the point of being alive post menopause? Why doesn't, why didn't nature just end the life of a woman when she couldn't bear kids anymore? Well, come to find out anthropologically, having wise older women who are there to participate in, like, whether it's wisdom and in the modern world, whether it's like my mom, who's still a professor, whether it is hugging, hurting kids, whether it is taking care of, nurturing, whatever it is, there's roles to play for everybody. And so your adventure becomes. I know me when I'm sleep deprived. I know me when there's a screaming kid and I can't do anything about it. So instead of avoiding the whole thing, I'm gonna head straight through it. Okay. What must be true then. Does your husband want kids?
- [32:20]
Kelly
Yes.
- [32:21]
Dr. John DeLoney
Yeah.
- [32:22]
Kelly
Not today, but yes.
- [32:27]
Dr. John DeLoney
Have you sat down with some older women that are a couple years ahead of you and just said if you had to do it all over again, would you. And not people who are with 1 and 2 year olds because they're still like square in the middle of it?
- [32:39]
Tara
Yes.
- [32:41]
Kelly
And, and my mom, she worked, she was a nurse. She worked when we were little. And yeah, I, they, yeah, they say it's a terrible investment, but it's worth it. But I guess I just.
- [32:55]
Dr. John DeLoney
As an accountant, that doesn't make any sense. I get it.
- [32:58]
Kelly
Yeah. Yeah. And a lot of women at, you know, the church we go to stay home and they don't have careers. They, you know, and. Because that's their dream, that is their career, being a mom, and that's what.
- [33:10]
Tara
They love to do.
- [33:11]
Kelly
But I just, it's not been my dream. It's not my dream.
- [33:13]
Dr. John DeLoney
Okay. So I want you, I want. Here's your, here's your homework assignment. Okay. For your whole life, you've been listening to other people's shoulds, have to's, and you have been comparing yourself to people's bodies, to people's attitudes, to people's spirituality, to people's interpretation of what God wants them to do to their dreams. You've been comparing yourself forever. What I want you to begin to practice is having the courage to co create a new world with your husband where y'all decide. And if you're people of faith, informed by your faith, right? But y'all decide, what kind of world do y'all want to inhabit? And when y'all decide that no decision is fixed. And so every decision is six months is three months is one year. And if you say, I want to keep working full time, great. Keep working full time. And if three months in, you're like, this is the worst decision. I want to go home. Then go home. And if you're like, this is the best thing for me, I love it. We have an amazing nanny. My mother stepped up and she's taking those old nursing skills. She's the best. Stay at home. Like, it's amazing. Awesome. But here's the thing. Y'all get to decide. And nothing is fixed. Nothing is forever. Y'all get to change your mind all the time. Build something new. Build something new. Build something new. But I want you to begin to think, what do I actually want with my one reckless, wild, precious life? It's the new year. It's my favorite time of year. Everyone starts thinking of new routines, building better habits, stopping things that aren't that helpful, and overall building a better life. And we all know that most new go get them goals are a waste of time because we don't put in the systems to make them sustainable. So how about this year, let's focus on fewer, more sustainable goals and better systems. And let's start by curating a system and a goal that's good for your heart and your soul. Let's start with our spiritual lives. And let's start off 2025 by focusing on prayer and meditation. To do this, I recommend Hallow, the number one prayer app in the world. I use it every day and I love it. Hallow offers over 10,000 guided prayers and meditations to help you grow closer to God and find peace. Hallow has some amazing daily prayers, and one of Hallow's most popular features is the Daily Reflection with Jonathan Roumie from the Chosen. You can also check out the daily scripture readings, nightly sleep prayers, and if you don't have much time, there's even something called the Daily minute. Hallow makes it easy to build a system and a routine by making a schedule, adding reminders, and fostering a community for accountability. So start the new year off right by putting your relationship with God first with the help of Hallow. Right now, they're offering three months for free when you join@halloween.com Deloney that's Hallow. H a l l o w dot com. Deloney for three months of Hallow, absolutely free. All right, Kelly, you're looking at me through the glass.
- [36:19]
Ben Hill
I'm. I think that. I think you did a great job on that. No question. And as a mother, I know where you're coming from, but I don't think having kids is for everyone.
- [36:30]
Dr. John DeLoney
I think you're right. Yeah.
- [36:31]
Ben Hill
I think that there are some people that, for whatever reason, shouldn't, can't, don't want to.
- [36:39]
Dr. John DeLoney
Oh, God, whatever. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
- [36:40]
Ben Hill
And now, as a woman, if you say, like, I don't want to have kids, that's hard because we're supposed to, you know? Cause there was a point in my life. Cause I've known, you know, since I was a teenager that I couldn't biologically have children. There was a point in my life when I was okay with that.
- [36:56]
Dr. John DeLoney
Yeah.
- [36:56]
Ben Hill
And I remember. But it's like. But then, you know, what's your purpose, basically, you know, for living and. But so that's hard as a woman, to say that I don't want kids, because I think you get a lot of flack, but I just don't think it is for everybody.
- [37:09]
Dr. John DeLoney
I think men get that same flack. I don't think we talk about it the same, probably. No, we don't get the same flag. That's not true. We don't get the same flack, but we get. I think you just get flack either way.
- [37:19]
Ben Hill
Right? Well, you're damned if you do, damned if you don't.
- [37:21]
Dr. John DeLoney
That's right.
- [37:21]
Ben Hill
Yeah.
- [37:22]
Dr. John DeLoney
So, yeah. I think there are people who sit down and think it through and say, this is not for us. Always going to honor that High five all the way to the end of time. But I do think that our generation sold them part of the algorithm that wasn't true. Does that make sense?
- [37:37]
Ben Hill
Like, what do you mean?
- [37:41]
Dr. John DeLoney
It would be like if my parents grew up dancing, and they loved dancing, and they were. They were not great at it, but they weren't dancing every weekend. And I'd always hear them banging around the house, and they got home laughing, carrying on. And then in high school, I took dance classes, and every time I went out to dance class, they sat us down and said, hey, if you do this, here's what's about to happen. And they painted this picture using ulterior metrics. Wrong metrics. This will happen, and this will happen, and this will happen, and this will happen. Geez. Okay, I'm not doing that. I don't. I don't want that life. I don't want that life then cool, I got the message. I don't want that world. I don't want to exist there. And then you sit down and you meet somebody and you're like hey, do you want to go dancing? It's like no, no no no no no, no. I have talked to the experts and they have said this happens, you run out of money, you how many time you don't get to do art anymore, you don't get to do this, you, your career goes away. All these things that aren't objectly true, they're just false but you paint this picture about it and then people say well it's just not for me. Totally get that people's right to do that. I honor that all day long and as from a house that man we tried to have kids and we. It was all. It was, it was horrific. I wouldn't wish that on been there. I totally get it. So what I'm saying is not everyone has to have kids. What I'm saying is I think there's got to be some ownership that we told people to use this calculus and it was the wrong calculus. What I should have looked at when back to my dance analogy. Some, some guy in a classroom can give me all of the well, here's how many calories you're going to burn. Here's what's going to do to your hips and here's what's going to do to your toes. They can give me all that stuff. And then I could just remember back to how much laughter and joy and warmth has filled. Filled my home growing up when I watched my parents dance, right? And when dad blew his knee out and all the rehab and all the whining he like by the way my parents, if they ever are dancing, I'll know where the apocalypse is upon us. They don't dance. So is that making sense?
- [39:42]
Ben Hill
Yeah. I'm picturing you in a tutu now, which I'd rather not.
- [39:46]
Dr. John DeLoney
You always picture me in the weirdest stuff you got told you to go see somebody about that.
- [39:50]
Ben Hill
Trust me, it's not my choice. No, I get it. And I understand that every time we.
- [39:55]
Dr. John DeLoney
Have these calls about kids I always get lit up with mean emails and questions and that's fine.
- [39:59]
Ben Hill
Yeah. And like I said, as a parent I understand where you're coming from on 100% but I also know it's just. It's not for everybody.
- [40:06]
Dr. John DeLoney
No, yeah, yeah.
- [40:06]
Ben Hill
We don't want it to be for everybody. I mean not because it's exclusive to only These people. But some people shouldn't.
- [40:14]
Dr. John DeLoney
Some people, millions and millions. Can't.
- [40:16]
Ben Hill
Can't. Yeah. And I mean, I understand that, you know, ours are adopted. Yeah. But some people just want to be the best aunt or uncle and we need those people.
- [40:25]
Dr. John DeLoney
Right.
- [40:25]
Ben Hill
You know?
- [40:25]
Dr. John DeLoney
Well, and that goes back to what I was saying earlier about man, there's a, there's just. If you decide this, decide, don't do it alone. Right. Find the aunts and uncles and teenagers and neighbors and grandparents and. And I know there people who listen to the show and say, I've got nobody. Okay, that's your work then. And that's not a popular thing to say, but that's your job. Then go find some people that you can breathe with.
- [40:47]
Ben Hill
Right. And that makes sense. So yeah, I get it.
- [40:51]
Dr. John DeLoney
Well, I feel like I stepped in it.
- [40:53]
Ben Hill
No, I don't think you stepped in at all. I just wanted to mention that little piece and again, we talked about this before of just for those that are sitting out there right now that are like, I have no desire to ever have children, my husband and I are fine. And they're okay with that. Yeah, and they're fine with it.
- [41:12]
Dr. John DeLoney
And the beauty is they get, they get to decide that. They get to decide that. And oh, I keep looking at the economic data. The birth rates are declining all over the world because people are opting out having kids. And there's people starting to ring the alarm bells like we have strange new world we live in.
- [41:29]
Ben Hill
But alas, there's a lot of people on this earth. A lot of people. Maybe a few less than a horrible thing.
- [41:37]
Dr. John DeLoney
All right, let's go out to Dallas, Texas and talk to Adam. Adam saved me from myself. What's up, brother?
- [41:43]
Adam
Hey. So I'm calling today. I am a public school teacher. I teach high school.
- [41:48]
Dr. John DeLoney
God bless you.
- [41:49]
Adam
Coming back to it after. I know I'm just sitting here talking about all the kids. I'm just thinking, oh boy, you think you can handle a 16 year old, but until you have to. Oh, but yeah, so this is my 10th year teaching. I took a three year break, went and did some other stuff for a while and decided to jump back into it. And I did. I working at a much bigger high school than I've ever worked at. And you know these kids that they're coming to school, they're dealing with so many things. Divorces, family members dying, friends dying. You know, I mean, just life, life happens to them too. How do you navigate that with a kid in a classroom when they're going through Something heavy. And that's probably the reason they're acting out or whatever the case may be. I mean, how do you work with that? What are some strategies that I can take as the adult in the room to try and give that kid the space and the opportunity to work through whatever's going on while also, you know, helping get them where they need to go?
- [42:54]
Dr. John DeLoney
Gosh, that's such a blessing, man. Thank you for asking the question. I wish there were more teachers out in the world like you. That's pretty awesome, brother.
- [43:01]
Adam
Well, it just hit me one day.
- [43:03]
Dr. John DeLoney
No, it's. It's. It's. It's incredible. And I count my few years of teaching high schools to my favorite years I've ever been alive. It was hard.
- [43:13]
Adam
Yeah.
- [43:14]
Dr. John DeLoney
I got hit in the face. I mean, it was wild. But, man, I loved it. Right. So I think my initial thought is this, how far up river can we get relationally? So that when these things occur in the life of a young person, that regardless of what's going on at home, regardless of what's going on in their lives and their worlds, they know of one sturdy adult that both knows them, slash sees them and holds them to a standard. And so most schools get this wrong on either side of the teeter totter. It's all emotional. It's all relational, which is great. But kids know when they're not doing their best.
- [44:14]
Adam
Yeah.
- [44:15]
Dr. John DeLoney
And kids know when an adult hugs them and says it's okay. The kid knows it's not. And so what we tell kids is we lie to them. And they know it. They know it. And then the other school says, I don't care what's going on anywhere, anytime you will do this work. And just a basic understand of maslow, like, I can't do algebra if I don't have any food at home. I can't do algebra if I'm playing defense because dad gets drunk and beats the crap out of all of us. And I'd rather him hit me than mom and little sister. Right, right. And so I think the middle is this something as simple as every day, school starts, and for 2 minutes, 120 seconds, kids write in a folder. My wife actually taught me this from her college students. They write in a folder, how's home? How's school? How's you? Something simple like that. And obviously it needs to be age appropriate. But what you'll find is, and here's the annoying part, because you don't have any more space in your life, you respond to every one of them.
- [45:27]
Adam
Yeah.
- [45:28]
Dr. John DeLoney
Right. Even if it's as simple as. You're a blessing. Thank you for sharing. I see you. I got your back. I'm watching you change in front of me. It's amazing, right? Like, what happens is it's boring. It's boring, it's boring, it's boring. And then you open one of those folders up and it's like, my. My granddad just died.
- [45:49]
Adam
Yeah.
- [45:50]
Dr. John DeLoney
And you never would have known it. You just would have seen that kid pull their hoodie over and put their headphones in, and you would have yelled at him, get their headphones out. And they would have thrown their phone. It would have been a whole thing.
- [45:58]
Adam
Yeah.
- [45:59]
Dr. John DeLoney
And then the other side of that is when you've shown up and shown up and shown up and shown up and shown up. And by the way, the. Like, the writing a thing right before class, that's a little thing. I mean, that. That may not be appropriate for your school. So I'm just thinking of any number of intervention strategies that somebody can implement. The. With the main goal being I see you, and I know you're a whole person outside of this classroom.
- [46:23]
Adam
Yeah.
- [46:24]
Dr. John DeLoney
You step out in the hallway with somebody, and if they're smaller than you, you take a knee. And if they're not, you look them in the eye and you say, I'm so sorry. You feel safe to give me a hug. And then you look at them before you head back in. You say, hey, you can't have those in there. You know that. And they laugh or they cry and they take their headphones out and they put them in because it's. Because they're held to a standard. But I don't think you can have accountability outside of relationship.
- [46:51]
Adam
I agree.
- [46:52]
Dr. John DeLoney
And then here's the suckiest part. You have to have a very ironclad plan, you and your wife, to deal with the amount of secondary trauma that all teachers hold on a daily, daily basis. Because no person was designed to carry that much pain. But those kids are bringing into your classroom every day.
- [47:11]
Adam
Yeah. Yeah. So what does that look like?
- [47:15]
Dr. John DeLoney
Everybody does it differently. Some people walk. Some people go lift weights. Some people go to a therapist. Some people go to church. Some people do all of those things. Some people get home and they put their phone away, and them and their. And their spouse just go for a walk. No talking. Give me an example of what some of the things your kids are going through.
- [47:33]
Adam
Well, so, man, there. There's. I have had kids who's. Who. They. They've lost, like, siblings. This year, one of the things that's. That's also occurred recently is there's a student who passed away not too long ago and that's impacted a number of the kids from the school. You know, I've had a young lady who's told me that she. Probably one of the greatest things that has been said to me is she told me that last year she tried to commit suicide. And she said that I asked her like, well, if you would be. You feel that way again, will you tell me. And she said absolutely. You seem like somebody I could, I could tell that to. And we actually had that. She had that conversation with me a few weeks after that and she's okay now. We referred her to, you know, we got her the help we needed, but she needed.
- [48:34]
Dr. John DeLoney
But I mean it's an amazing testament to your ability as a teacher. But. But deeper than that, just your ability to be a guy that kids can feel that I trust that guy. He cares about me. He wants me to be okay. Yeah, it's pretty cool.
- [48:51]
Adam
But it does accumulate over.
- [48:52]
Dr. John DeLoney
It does, it does, it does. So if you've ever listened to this show, you know, I'm always telling people to write letters. I was just a dumb 21 year old, 22 year old. That was the very first time I ever enacted. That was when I had a class full of high school kids and one of their classmates died by suicide. And it was horrific. And I passed out papers to everybody and I said, everybody, I want you to write him a letter. And I read all of them and it was one of the most important shape shifts for me. And it changed the tenor of my classroom because I commented on them, I talked to folks. There was two or three of the kids that were really personally struggling deeply and so we could connect them to the counselors. But I remember being really important connection point because they're never going to raise their hand in front of their classmates and say certain things, but they will write it down. And I was a goofy. I was a goofball teacher anyway. But being a goofball, I'd built relationship with them over the course of a year. So when that moment came, we were checked in.
- [50:03]
Adam
That makes sense. Do you think it matters whether they write it by hand on paper or they type it? I mean, is that I. I think.
- [50:11]
Dr. John DeLoney
There is something baseball. There's some research about the kinetic importance of writing that when you lose the connection between your head and your hand, it changes things. I'm not smart enough to tell you yay or nay. I think there's something Important that says I think this is a life lesson that we are communicating in the, in the, at the 30, 000 foot level. High school kids, middle school kids, elementary school kids, and college students. That there is a life before and after this class. Take two minutes and exhale and check in with yourself where you are. And so I don't think that can be done with a screen. It's too distracting. It's designed to for the exact opposite sensation than that what I'm trying to get from them.
- [50:55]
Adam
Yeah.
- [50:56]
Dr. John DeLoney
So I think there's something powerful about all screens down, all phones over. Pull out your folder. And my wife did this awesome thing too with her college students that I stole and did it with my college students. I did it even with my doctoral students in that same folder at the end of the class day, she had three columns on the page and the students had to grade themselves. I think it was one to five on a lacquer scale. Like, how was your participation today? How was my class? And how would you, would you. What's one thing you learned today? And I'd go through and initial them just to let them know I saw it. But it was amazing to me how many students would honestly represent like they would score themselves. Like I, I, I did I give you. I gave myself a 2 today. I didn't even read the assignment coming in. I'm sorry. I'll be better. I'll be on it next time. But just knowing that people were cared enough to ask changed the dynamic of the classroom. And occasionally I would learn something. I, I came unprepared today. My mom's in in the cancer ward and I went to see her last night and get them till late, man. Now I can check in after class, shoot an email to them, let them know, hey, I'm gonna extend your deadline this weekend. Don't even have to ask. Like, I could do some things around grades and connectivity and things like that.
- [52:15]
Adam
Yeah.
- [52:16]
Dr. John DeLoney
But it was amazing. Would just write me a couple of lines and letting them know week after week that I'm checking in on it. What that will do. Sometimes it's just initial. Tell them if I initial it. Great. That means I saw it and I love you and I care about you.
- [52:27]
Adam
I like it. I like g me a lot of folders, but do it, bro.
- [52:32]
Dr. John DeLoney
So many folders. The other thing that I like about the folder, and again, there's a thousand intervention strategies. This is just one of of a thousand. One thing I loved about it was they also got to decorate it how they liked. And oh, people would put crazy stickers on them, write sayings on them. I would encourage that, especially the beginning of a semester, bring whatever your wild self to this thing. There'd be hunting stickers and deer stickers and, like, metal stickers and whatever. Like, bring it and decorate it up. Don't do anything inappropriate, obviously, but decorate it up. And that was a cool way I got to know these students right away. Like, oh, I know, I. I was you growing up. Or I knew a guy like you, and that's pretty cool. And this guy's going to be just a box of turds. And I can't wait to get to know him because he's going to be fun, right? But whatever it is. So I think, I think it's, at the end of the day, how can, in the context with which I live, how can I develop relationships and respectfully and with compassion hold the accountability line as often as I can? There is moments when it's like, hey, I need you to step out of class. You can listen to your headphones out there. I know your world just blew up. That's very, very, very rare. But if you go too far on the. It's okay, honey, I'm just gonna pat you on the head. You don't have to do anything. Kids know that we believe, oh, you're not enough. The other side of it is like, keep going. And just whacking them with the old three foot ruler, regardless of what's going on in their life, just lacks compassion. And students will sing and dance for you. Then they will cut you out of their lives forever. And I don't want them being in a place where they learn to hate learning. All right, I want to tell you about my favorite Cozy Earth. We're just into the new year, and for the past month, my sleep was all screwed up. I was spending more and more time on screens than I normally do. I was traveling all over. I felt out of place. And here's the deal. Starting the year off right starts with good sleep. And that means creating a space that helps you actually rest. For me and my family, that's where Cozy Earth comes in. Their bedding is amazing. It's soft and breathable, and it keeps me and my family cool and comfortable all night long. My wife sleeps in these Cozy Earth long sleeve bamboo pajama sets. She loves them. And we all love the bath linens and the best towels in the world. And I really fallen in love with these cityscape hoodies. So let's do a restart. Let's Put down our phones. This new year, let's set regular bedtimes and actually stick to them. And let's get comfortable whenever possible and invest in our sleep. All of this with Cozy Earth. When we sleep and rest well, we show up better for ourselves and our families. And right now, Cozy Earth is offering up to a 40% off discount code exclusively for Dr. John DeLoney show listeners. That's cozyearth.com DeLoney and use code Deloney. All right, we are back. Hey, don't forget, you can go over to the Ramsey Network app where the show is hosted and you can download the Ramsey Network app and you can get this show a week early. Comes out on YouTube. Subscribe, do all that kind of stuff, and it comes out on podcast. What do you say when it comes to podcasts? Subscribe to podcast. Is that right?
- [55:55]
Ben Hill
Follow, Subscribe.
- [55:56]
Dr. John DeLoney
I don't know.
- [55:56]
Ben Hill
Thumbs up the app.
- [55:57]
Dr. John DeLoney
You just Internet. Yeah, but if you're on the. If you're on the app, it just comes out straight on the app. You can get a week early. And there's an episode of United States of Anxiety where I flew to Connecticut and met with somebody. She was awesome. And she worked for. We worked, walked with her for 90 days. It's pretty rad. So you can check that out, too. So go check out the Ramsey Network app. Happy birthday, Ben. Make good choices. Thank you. No guarantees as. As the lead singer of Dump Band would appropriately say, Kelly, happy Thanksgiving. Hope it all works out for you. I can imagine you being one of two things. A bundle of joy at Thanksgiving or good God, let's go outside and throw the football.
- [56:39]
Ben Hill
Joyful.
- [56:40]
Dr. John DeLoney
I could see you, like, kind of coming unhinged and having, like, it be like a great hang at Thanksgiving.
- [56:44]
Ben Hill
I love the holidays.
- [56:45]
Dr. John DeLoney
Yeah.
- [56:45]
Ben Hill
Yeah. And I'm going to my husband's family. And I love my. I love them. We have fun together. So great. Fantastic.
- [56:55]
Dr. John DeLoney
Anytime somebody says two superlatives about themselves, I'm great, fantastic, wonderful, like Tommy boy. Good, great, grand. That means they're lying. Best of luck to you. Robert's family holidays are here. Kelly's coming. We'll see you soon. Hey, what's up, folks? Big news. The Dr. John DeLoney show is now available a full week early in the Ramsey Network app. That's right. You can catch all the real talk of mental health, relationships, emotional health before anyone else. And the best part, it's completely free. Just click the link in the show notes to download the Ramsey Network app and start watching early today.