Edward (2:41)

Okay.

Dr. John Deloney (2:42)

You. You tell me, brother. You tell me, like, hey, you're off on this one. Okay?

Edward (2:45)

No, you're fine.

Dr. John Deloney (2:47)

Thing number one is feeling in love is a thing I'm never going to base any decisions on.

Edward (2:57)

Sure.

Dr. John Deloney (2:58)

Because that comes and goes. Love is an action. It's a. It's a series of things I do and a series of things I receive. Right?

Edward (3:08)

Correct.

Dr. John Deloney (3:08)

So, yes, you've been with somebody for two years, you don't feel in love right now. That's just kind of part of the deal. That doesn't mean it's over. That's a Hollywood thing.

Edward (3:15)

Right.

Dr. John Deloney (3:15)

If you don't feel it, then it's over. That's, that's not true. If, you know, I. This, like, let me answer this way, okay. No, don't stay in a relationship just because you don't want to hurt somebody's feelings. That's disrespectful and dishonoring.

Edward (3:35)

Okay.

Dr. John Deloney (3:36)

Okay.

Edward (3:38)

If I could give you a little backstory on some of this.

Dr. John Deloney (3:40)

Yeah.

Edward (3:41)

Like, I, I was in my previous marriage for 14. Well, we were together 14 years, but we were only married for like five, I think. But I had been in an unhealthy place when I got into that relationship. And a lot of just drinking and stuff led us together and, you know, spent. We, we got together, we lived together and all this. Well, during that time, I was trying to work on myself and I found, I found healing through, through trail running. Okay. And I started about seven years ago running, running, running. And it seemed to clear my mind and it seemed like I was able to step away from some of the, the addictions and stuff that I had. And, you know, for. Towards the end of there, even for two years, almost two years, I actually was able to even go completely sober. No alcohol, no nothing. So the problem I found was that my partner that I was with at the time was unhealthy and not really into any of that stuff. And we grew apart because I didn't try to focus on bringing her, I didn't focus on her. I focused on me, you know, and even though I was finding that healing, our relationship was falling apart. And I had so called friends that were telling me, hey, man, you know, look at all you've done for yourself. And you know, your wife ain't a part of that. You know, you deserve better, you deserve this, you deserve that. And I let it get in my head and met someone, you know, caught my eye, I caught their eye, cheated, turned around, left my wife, divorced her, moved this lady in with me. And now, you know, it's like,

Kate (5:31)

I

Edward (5:32)

don't know, it's like everything's changed. It's like barely run or anything anymore now because she's afraid that I will leave her. Because that's why I left the first time, was because I was out hanging out with other people and stuff. And it's like the one thing in my life that had kept me somewhat better was somewhat took away from me now and I find myself going right back to the old habits of, well, I just go home and have a beer. You know what I mean? Just.

Dr. John Deloney (5:58)

Yeah, but I don't think that's why you quit running.

Edward (6:01)

Okay.

Dr. John Deloney (6:02)

I think you quit running because you don't respect yourself anymore.

Edward (6:07)

You're right about that.

Dr. John Deloney (6:09)

And the only guys I've ever seen get sober and find alternative outlets for inner demons, for lack of better terms, have high. They come to a place where they decide I'm worth living a different life.

Edward (6:28)

Right.

Dr. John Deloney (6:30)

And in the process of you realizing I deserve to live a different life, you forgot the. For what? The reason I work out a lot, the reason I try to keep myself in reasonable shape is so that my wife can anchor in, my kids can anchor in, my co workers can anchor in. Right?

Edward (6:56)

Yes.

Dr. John Deloney (6:58)

And not so that I can. Whatever. So you, over time, man, you found a great outlet. You started getting well. And instead of getting well so that. You could be more present, be more stable, be more supportive, whatever. In sickness and in health. Yeah. Like you said, you let those voices of your idiot friends get in your head and you became somebody. You did things that you as a man, don't respect. It's hard to look yourself in the mirror. It's hard to put those shoes back on and go running for a guy that you don't think is worth it.

Edward (7:40)

Yeah.

Dr. John Deloney (7:40)

And let's be honest, alcohol takes that away.

Kate (7:44)

Yep.

Dr. John Deloney (7:46)

And so the choice you have in front of you right now is not about her. It's about will you forgive the man who screwed up, who blew his life up and somebody else's life up? And will you choose to take the actions to become a man that you respect again? Yeah. So that you can be a net positive to those in your home and your community and in your. In the world around you. But that starts with you looking in the mirror and saying, I'm worth. I'm worth the fight. Because you know how hard it's going to be to get back in shape. You know, it's gonna. How hard it is to ache and paint all that kind of stuff. And alcohol just makes it go away for a minute.

Edward (8:32)

Yeah, it does. Yep.

Dr. John Deloney (8:36)

I'm telling you right now, if you were my friend, I would have showed up at your door and said, don't do what you're about to do.

Edward (8:43)

Right.

Dr. John Deloney (8:43)

Okay. And I'm gonna tell you, it's over. You've done it. I'm. I would show up to your house now and tell you, hey, put your shoes back on. You're worth running for again.

Edward (8:55)

Right?

Andrew (8:57)

Right?

Edward (9:00)

Yeah. How do I. How do I put on my shoes and go run again when the person I'm with is like, basically, if, if. If you do it without me, then you're probably out here cheating on me kind of attitude?

Dr. John Deloney (9:18)

Well, she has a lived experience.

Edward (9:20)

Yes. And that's true.

Dr. John Deloney (9:21)

She's not crazy. And so the, the question for you is I need you to put a path back to trust.

Edward (9:30)

Okay.

Dr. John Deloney (9:30)

Because we met through an affair.

Edward (9:32)

Yep.

Dr. John Deloney (9:34)

And if she says, I will never be able to trust you, if you're gone on these long marathon runs with these. This other community, then you have a choice to make. Am I going to walk this path and find other outlets? I know that I found one that I didn't see coming, and that was trail running, of all things. I'm going to go find another one. Because she's worth that, right? We are worth that. Or I'm gonna go ahead and call it, because trail running is my one thing.

Edward (10:03)

Right.

Dr. John Deloney (10:03)

And then you have to be a grown man and own that decision.

Edward (10:08)

I understand,

Dr. John Deloney (10:12)

but it's asking her because. Because normally what happens is when people get together in that were like an affair and then they get together, the. The statistics, the data of them staying together is very, very low percentage.

Edward (10:27)

Oh, I. You're 100% right. Yes.

Dr. John Deloney (10:29)

And so the only way to make it work is to have an ironclad path towards trust. Because we both started in a lie. And so that just like all relationships, the. The core foundation, the reason I always tell people, you got to see them and know them and celebrate them. Those are things to do to build trust.

Edward (10:49)

Right.

Dr. John Deloney (10:50)

And so sitting down and asking otherwise, what happens is most of the time that. That finish line just moves all the time.

Edward (10:57)

Okay.

Dr. John Deloney (10:58)

And. And you can never. She'll never trust you.

Edward (11:00)

Okay.

Dr. John Deloney (11:00)

Right. There's nothing you. There's not a thing you can do. Right. Without a plan. You get what I'm saying with that intentionality?

Edward (11:04)

I do, yes.

Dr. John Deloney (11:06)

My guess is she's. It has slowly moved and moved and moved. Is that fair?

Edward (11:12)

Yes. Yes, it is.

Dr. John Deloney (11:13)

Okay. Another thing I'll tell you is people often say, I don't trust you, I don't trust you. That's often the only words that people have for the gap they feel when there's distance, even though people are standing right next to each other.

Kate (11:29)

Okay.

Dr. John Deloney (11:29)

What I mean by that is y' all can be sitting on the couch, and she knows you're not into her.

Edward (11:36)

Okay.

Dr. John Deloney (11:37)

And the only assumption is he must have somebody else.

Andrew (11:41)

Right? Right, Right.

Edward (11:42)

Yep.

Dr. John Deloney (11:43)

It might be you with your own demons. It might be when you drink alcohol, your body just vortexes away from you.

Andrew (11:48)

Right.

Dr. John Deloney (11:49)

And that's why it feels good to drink. But she's sitting right next to you on the couch, and she's grasping at ghosts. She feels you, but you're not there.

Edward (11:56)

Yep.

Dr. John Deloney (11:57)

And the only logical thing she has in her head is always cheating again.

Andrew (12:01)

Yeah.

Edward (12:02)

That's like if I just. If I just pick up my phone for a second, she's like, who are you texting? You know, and stuff like that.

Dr. John Deloney (12:07)

But that tells me that she doesn't have you. She has a shell.

Edward (12:12)

That's probably true. Yes, sir. That's probably true. I feel like I've never worked on myself to a degree, and I've always just.

Dr. John Deloney (12:20)

I don't think that. No, it's not that. I don't think you've ever gone all in.

Edward (12:24)

Well, that's a good way to put it. Yeah.

Dr. John Deloney (12:26)

You have to put both feet in the boat, and she's not going to go out to heart. She's not going to go leave the bay and go into the wild ocean. She's. That's why she's still got the whole thing anchored to the dock, because you're not all the way in the boat yet.

Edward (12:37)

Okay.

Dr. John Deloney (12:38)

And you got to decide. I'm going to put both feet in this thing and look at her and say, you know what? You might be able to hurt me.

Edward (12:49)

Okay.

Dr. John Deloney (12:50)

And then she's got to say, yeah, and you. I know for a fact you have the capacity to hurt people badly, and so you might hurt me. And we both have to decide. We're going to put both feet in this boat and come up with a really intentional plan so that we know without a shadow of a doubt that we're both in the boat at all times.

Edward (13:08)

Okay.

Dr. John Deloney (13:09)

And I. I personally don't think it means you have to give up running.

Edward (13:15)

Sure.

Dr. John Deloney (13:15)

I. It sounds symptomatic to me.

Andrew (13:18)

Okay.

Dr. John Deloney (13:19)

It sounds like she is grasping for things to try to reconnect with you.

Edward (13:23)

Okay. That makes sense. It really does.

Dr. John Deloney (13:28)

So the. The. The. I. I got to work on myself. I don't think that's where we start. I think we start with you looking in the mirror and say, I'm worth the work. And the work number one is struggling with. Yeah, am I going to put both feet in my. In the boat of this relationship or am I out? You get to decide. And then, yes, you've got work on yourself to do. Right. Getting back in shape, getting sober, get with an AA group. You got to get a group of men around you that will hold you accountable. All that kind of stuff is true. You've been down that road before you know it. And in fact, you might not have been on the in with an accountability group. And if you haven't, you've been white knuckling this whole thing. Trail running, in a way, is literally running away from that problem. At some point, you're gonna have to face the music and be emotionally vulnerable with a group of people. So I. That's why I'm such a huge fan of a. I know some people don't like it, but that's why I'm such a huge fan of group programs like that. And you look at her and say, I haven't never been fully in this boat. I'm getting both feet in the boat. And here's what I need from you to earn trust. And I'm going to ask you to give me a path to trust for you. And if it's about your phone, cool. You can see it. I don't care if it's about whatever, cool. But we're going to make that path or we're going to go our separate ways. But hear me say this, brother. Yeah. You messed up big. You messed up big. And there's a period at the end of that sentence. And now you get to choose right now who you're going to be and what you're going to do next. And that starts with you look in the mirror and saying, I'm worth the work. I'm worth what happens next. And I, for one, believe that you are. Thanks for the call, homie. Call anytime, and I'll sit with you. This is literally what I mean when I say, go do the next right thing. We come back, a woman asks me to settle a debate between her and her husband over infant circumcision. Be right back. Hey, what's up? It's Deloney. So we're in the middle of Lent right now, and whether you grew up with that tradition or you're just trying to get your head and your heart back on straight this season, there's something I want you to check out. It's Called Hallow, it's the number one Christian prayer and meditation app in the world. And it's honestly become one of the most important things I do to start my day. Anchoring my day in prayer helps me slow down and prioritize what matters to me by before the world swallows me up. And right now, we're in the middle of Hallow's Lint Pray 40 challenge. And if you've given something up and you're barely hanging on, or if you want to learn more about what this whole Lent thing is all about, this challenge is for you. Hallow is loaded with daily reflections, scripture, music, and other special series to help you anchor your faith in practice. You can try Hallow for free for three whole months by using my link. Go to hallow.com deloney today and sign up for three months of Hallow for free. All right, point blank. Most of the stuff on supplement shelves in your local store is trash. It's shiny labels with zero substance. When it comes to supplements, I'm not playing that game. And neither is Thorn. I've been taking Thorn supplements for years, long before I had a podcast or a YouTube show. Because when it comes to my mind and my body, I don't mess around. I love Thorne. I trust him. I use him for sleep, performance, and for keeping my brain on track. Whether you're a serious athlete, a mom on the go, or a dad who's just trying to show up for his family after a long day at the office, if you're looking for supplemental nutrition, you deserve the best. When it comes to supplements, I want proof, not hype. Most companies outsource production and skimp on testing. Not Thorne. They make every product with science, not spin. At their world class facility In South Carolina, 35% of Thorne's employees work in quality control and they reject up to 15% of raw materials. Because good enough is not good enough. For Thorne, it's gotta be excellent. That's why pro athletes, Olympic teams, and over 60,000 doctors trust Thorne. And that's why I trust them too. Stop guessing what's going into your body. Take what it actually needs and nothing it doesn't. Go to thorne.com the letter U/Deloney to get 25 off your order. When you create an account that's T H o r n e.com the letter u Deloney, you're worth it. Go check them out. Let's go to Rochester, Minnesota and talk to Kate. Hey, Kate, what's up?

Kate (18:06)

Hi, Dr. John. Thank you for talking to me today.

Dr. John Deloney (18:08)

Of course. Thanks for calling. What's going on?

Kate (18:11)

Hi. So I guess my question is

Andrew (18:17)

my

Kate (18:17)

husband and I want to have more kids, and we find ourselves on opposite sides of something that feels like a deeply held value to both of us.

Dr. John Deloney (18:26)

Okay.

Kate (18:28)

And so we're wondering, or I'm wondering if there's some perspective. You can help see that maybe I haven't been able to. Look at myself or how we can resolve this between us and move forward together.

Dr. John Deloney (18:46)

Yeah, it sounds like it's distressing.

Kate (18:51)

Yes.

Andrew (18:52)

Wow.

Dr. John Deloney (18:52)

Okay. So do you all have kids already?

Kate (18:55)

Yes.

Dr. John Deloney (18:56)

How old are your kids now?

Kate (18:58)

They're two and four.

Dr. John Deloney (18:59)

Two and four. Okay.

Kate (19:01)

Both girls.

Dr. John Deloney (19:02)

Okay.

Kate (19:03)

And what we're disagreeing on is routine infant circumcision.

Dr. John Deloney (19:09)

Okay.

Kate (19:10)

And so trying to plan to have more kids, which we both want. We both came from big families. I don't know. You know, there's no compromise. There's no middle ground on this issue. So we either do it or we don't. There's no. There's no. Someone gives a little bit, another person gives a little bit, and we find a happy middle ground.

Dr. John Deloney (19:37)

So let me back out again. Um, so you're talking about if we have a third kid, if we roll the dice again and we have a little boy, one of you wants to circumcise this little boy and one of you does not, Right?

Kate (19:54)

Correct.

Dr. John Deloney (19:55)

Where was this argument or this deep seated challenge with child one and child two?

Kate (20:01)

Well, with child one, it wasn't something we had talked about ahead of time. Like, I go back and think like nobody when you're dating someone thinking about getting married.

Dr. John Deloney (20:11)

Yeah, no kidding.

Kate (20:12)

Asking each other, are we going to circumcise our kids?

Dr. John Deloney (20:15)

Yeah, that's not in the checklist.

Kate (20:17)

Yeah. So when we came home from an appointment with the midwife at, like, I don't know, it was like maybe 25ish weeks of pregnancy. Somewhere around there was when the midwife asked what our plans were for if our child was a boy. And that's when. When we realized that we actually disagreed on this.

Dr. John Deloney (20:36)

Okay.

Kate (20:37)

I think maybe we both knew, but we hadn't had a discussion about it before then. And so the remainder of the pregnancy was pretty hard because we knew we were on opposite sides of this issue. But once our daughter was born, we didn't have to, you know, face it with her anymore. And then with our second, let's see, our first girl was just over a year old when we decided that, you know, we were both feeling ready for another. And you kind of. You kind of let that big Question go in the. And the excitement of, yeah, let's have another baby. And then once I was pregnant, I didn't sleep so stressed the whole time.

Dr. John Deloney (21:21)

Where are you on this side of the issue?

Kate (21:24)

I'm completely opposed to circumcision.

Dr. John Deloney (21:27)

You're opposed to it. And he is adamant about it.

Kate (21:31)

Weeks.

Dr. John Deloney (21:31)

Okay, So tell me about your. I don't want to take it away from this main issue and we'll get back to this main issue. Okay, But being pregnant with kid number two. And let me. Let me ask it this way in the most direct way I can. If we were. Had a couple hours together, I would, I would, I would get more information here and we just talk a little more gently. So I'm going to be pretty, pretty abrupt. Okay. Is there a possibility that the angst of the world, the angst of your life, the angst within your chest, the angst of any number of things has somehow landed on this particular issue? As I, I always called, like, anxiety, for me. Always felt like a flywheel. And it would pick up a thing. Stock market, my wife, health and safety, what, any number of things. And it would just spin out of control until I thought, I quote, unquote, solved that particular issue and then it would just pick up something else.

Kate (22:44)

No, I don't think this is a compilation of. Of other things. I think this is an issue and, and we do not see eye to eye on it.

Dr. John Deloney (22:53)

Okay, so. So tell me about, Tell me about your. Your. I mean, this is so deep for you. I mean, it's bringing up. The thought of it is bringing tears. I mean, it's bringing up deep emotions. Tell me about where that comes from.

Kate (23:07)

Yeah, I mean, well, because I come from a big family, my husband does as well. We both saw a big family for ourselves as, as what we wanted. So this was the idea of giving up, having more kids and being done.

Dr. John Deloney (23:31)

I know. That's not what I'm asking. The fact that you would not see through your dream of having a big family that, strangely enough, is shared with your husband. The fact that you would give all of that up over this issue.

Kate (23:49)

Oh, yeah, because I think. I think circumcision is inherently harmful to babies. And I won't want to have a baby knowing he's going to be harmed.

Dr. John Deloney (23:57)

Okay, so tell me about where that belief comes from.

Kate (24:01)

Well, you know, when a baby is born, they're here looking for safety and comfort from their mom and to literally cut off a piece of genitals on the day they're born or the next day. It's. It seems absolutely barbaric to me.

Dr. John Deloney (24:16)

Okay.

Kate (24:20)

Nobody in my family, in my immediate family, I have a lot of brothers, and I changed diapers growing up. I know my brothers are not circumcised. Everyone in my husband's extended family is. And so it's just this crazy issue that we're on absolute opposite sides of. He's like, everyone grew up just fine. It's not that big a deal. And I think it's a terrible practice culturally, and I don't think anyone should be doing it. But for my own child, I. I don't know how I would give consent for that procedure.

Dr. John Deloney (24:47)

Okay. Is there any. So whenever I'm talking to somebody in their mind, the door is closed to a Converse. To. To. To light getting in the door. I'll take a separate track, but I do feel like I need to challenge the difference in cutting off genitals versus cutting off skin.

Kate (25:14)

Skin. The skin that is meant to protect the genitals.

Dr. John Deloney (25:17)

Okay. Yeah. I want to. Just. One is. You're right. One is a cultural practice. One is just kind of an. I don't know what to say other than it just as an is. And the other is like so conflating those two things. I just want to separate them. But the fact here is that your mind is made up. There is a door that is shut. I guess the only path forward for you is an exhale and a. Making peace with this is such a value to me that I'm willing to give up all of this other stuff. And I would say the same thing to your husband on the phone. This is like I'm. I'm drawing the line in the sand so firm here that it's going to cost me and all boundaries cost us that I'm going to go through a grieving process. I'm going to be super sad that I had this picture of my life with five, six, seven kids running around having fun. But my value line stops here. And I'm going to be really grateful for my two daughters and I'm going to find joy and peace inside this boundary that I've drawn so firmly in the dirt. Because it. Because listen, any other choice is a choice to just continue to be miserable and angry and that harms you, that harms your marriage, that harms your kids.

Kate (26:44)

Yeah, I think I've been circling. Circling around that for a while, but yeah, I guess I'm just afraid to commit to that being the path because it's not what I had envisioned.

Dr. John Deloney (26:55)

And is he as firm on that one as you are, that. Is he as firm as if I have a son. I've been in enough locker rooms. I've been through my life. What's wrong with me? And I imagine he's taking this very personally if he is circumcised. Like, what. What is so bad about me and all my brothers? And what is this thing about my family that you think X, Y. Like this becomes a much bigger issue than just this one little thing. That's. That's why you're not wrong either. This, this would be a very unique situation, that this is the one issue that these things aren't showing up in other places in your marriage.

Kate (27:36)

Yeah. And. And it is. It's a. It's an isolated issue. He's a fantastic husband, wonderful father. We have a good relationship.

Dr. John Deloney (27:45)

Okay. So anytime I am faced with a deeply, deeply held value, of which I've got several, I. I'll. I'll tell you the way I've chosen to live my life. You don't have to choose to do it this way. I'm just telling you what I've done in my own life. Like, my advice in this situation is pretty, pretty thin. I don't have a lot of great advice for you. But I'll tell you what I do. I always make the assumption, or I always lead with an assumption that I might be wrong. And so when I have a deeply held value on something and somebody that I love and care about is on the other side of the issue, whether it's religion, politics, policy, anything like that, cultural issues, I always sit down with this question, could I be wrong here? Teach me. And not in a. So I can win an argument. Not so I can bury you. Not so I. Not. That's not the point. The point is I. I'm about to. I'm about to make a major left or right turn in my life, and I at least want the option to not look back when I'm 40 and go, oh, my gosh, I blew it on this. And so that's the only other thing I could tell you. And if you've done that, if you've really tried to say, okay, what's the other side of this? Have I talked to physicians who do this kind of thing and listen to their argument? Do I. Have I sat with people who haven't had this and wish they had, like, whatever. Like, have I done the work to say, ask the question, Could I be. Is there another perspective on this other than this simply just is, period. And if you have and you've and you're like, great. I've heard the other sides. I've sat with folks, I've listened to their arguments, and I am further entrenched. Then the only other choice is to make peace with the wall that you've. You've built for yourself.

Kate (29:53)

Yeah, I think that. I think the. I really think I have listened as carefully as I can and considered each perspective I could come across and for sure listen respectfully to my husband and try to understand why or see if I could. If I could give this up and come around to his side. But I keep coming back to you that it's something that if a boy really wants it, he can have it done later, but once you do it, you can't undo it. So if a child grows up and wants to make that decision for themselves, I have no problem with that. But I don't feel like I could be the one to decide for my child and then potentially regret it at some point.

Dr. John Deloney (30:41)

Okay, then I think your next option there is to exhale with your husband and say, this is the. This we're at an impasse here. And so this is the world we're co creating and let's be over the moon all about our two daughters. And let's build the best marriage we can on. On the back of this grief that we thought our life was going to look like this and now it's going to look like this. And what makes this especially challenging for both of you is this is usually a conversation I have with somebody who loses a child or who is un. Like who life has done this to them. This would be a little more complicated because y' all are choosing this together.

Kate (31:29)

Yeah. It's definitely not a choice I ever saw as changing, such as the trajectory of my life.

Dr. John Deloney (31:35)

Right, right. And the fact that you can hold your husband's aside with dignity. I appreciate, like, it sounds like. Like you're not just bashing him. He's good, man. He's just said I'm pretty firm on this one. I have a lived experience of this. This side of this issue. And my family has a lived experience. My culture has a lived experience of this side of this issue. What's your. What's your brother's opinions?

Kate (32:18)

I haven't directly spoken to any of them.

Dr. John Deloney (32:20)

I would ask them, ask them, Ask them.

Kate (32:30)

I. I don't know how that would feel to ask. I guess.

Dr. John Deloney (32:38)

How come?

Kate (32:39)

I guess you gave me good advice. I probably should. I don't know. It feels. It feels. This is why. Because I have asked my Husband about bringing other people into this conversation to help us see, you know, maybe something we haven't thought, like meeting with a pastor or something about it. He's pretty opposed to that because he says this is an issue for him and I to figure out together. It's, It's. It's our family. It would be our decision.

Dr. John Deloney (33:09)

And I. I think there's truth to that. I do. I think there's. I think there's. There's power in coming to this decision, but also. And you can tell me if I'm wrong. I hear an underlying current that you're going to start asking yourself, do you want to stay in this marriage?

Kate (33:26)

No, I don't think that's a factor.

Dr. John Deloney (33:27)

Okay. All right.

Kate (33:29)

So it's not like it's not pervasive. It's not like he's not, like, controlling me, telling me I can't ask advice and things like that.

Dr. John Deloney (33:37)

No, no, no, no. I'm just talking about if you look up in six years and you have your two daughters and they're getting older, you will both look at each other and start to resent each other if you're not careful.

Kate (33:52)

Yeah, that's something that I am concerned about, like, long term, moving forward. I guess I mentioned regret, but, yeah, if we have to go one way or the other

Dr. John Deloney (34:04)

or no way, how

Kate (34:05)

do we not let it affect our future in a negative way?

Dr. John Deloney (34:08)

Well, you both just say we made the choice, but that's where I would be interested. I would be interested in somebody's lived experience. That's why the phys, the physicians who do this surgery, I'd want to know, hey, this looks barbaric and evil and awful to me. Can you walk me through what actually happens here? Can you walk me through pain threshold repair? Clear. All that kind of stuff. I remember. And again, this is. This doesn't equate in any way, shape, form or fashion. Okay. I remember seeing the umbilical cord cut and heal, and it looked so gnarly. It looked catastrophic. And I couldn't imagine that that was not the most painful thing in the whole wide world ever, ever, ever. But the look of what I was looking at wasn't accurate.

Kate (35:04)

Right. There's no nerve endings in an umbilical cord.

Dr. John Deloney (35:06)

Okay. So I, again, I didn't know that. I'm just looking at this thing going, oh, my gosh, this has to be the worst thing. And it wasn't. I was wrong. And so I would want to get lived experience from a physician. I'd want to get lived experiences of guys who you have, you have a lived experience of a husband who's pretty firmly committed to. No, no, I, I, this is a big deal to me, but you've also have an opportunity to talk to your brothers. And so I wouldn't, I, I would, I would do that in concert with your husband. I would say, hey, I want to get some more wisdom on this. I want to try to, I want to try to learn some more. And I want to ask some guys that I know who happen to be adults who aren't circumcised, like, hey, what's your opinion on this matter? Like, that'd be worth asking them. They've had a lived experience. I always want to go as close to a source as possible when I'm trying to figure out values. But, yeah, if this is an impasse, and it's not, we're choosing one or the other, we're choosing neither, then we're going to grieve it. We're going to be super sad because we had a different picture for our life. And then we are going to go be about making joy inside of the boundaries we've co created together. Because any other choice is a choice to be resentful, be angry, be bitter. And I refuse to do that, to live a whole life like that. Life is hard enough with external stuff coming our way. So the choices I make in my life in the middle, the jobs I didn't take, the things I didn't do, the houses I didn't buy, whatever, I am going to choose that to put a period at the end of that sentence, grieve it, be really sad, and then get on about my life. And that's really hard to do, but I think that's our call as parents, as partners, as just citizens. It's the next right move. Or do I find joy in whatever place I found myself, Especially when it's a place of my own choosing. Thanks for the call, sister. It's a complicated issue, and I appreciate you being honest and, and sitting with me. Let me sit with you. Let me know what y' all decide to do. I'm kind of invested in this now. I'm interested in what happens next. So make sure you let us know how it's going, and we'll be thinking about you. We come back, a man asks, how much should he involve his kids on an upcoming move? I joke all the time that I hate being online, but I'm not joking. And the truth is, I'm everywhere. I'm a podcaster, I'm on social media. I've got a YouTube channel. And because of all of that, my face is all over the Internet. And that means my personal stuff is all over the Internet. And that's why I joined Delete Me. And just because you're not a podcaster doesn't mean that your information isn't also all over the Internet. Everyone's information is everywhere. Your phone number, your home address, even old email accounts. It's all out there on data broker websites that buy and sell your private information to the highest bidders. I don't want to worry about scammers having personal details about me and my family. And I know you don't either. Delete Me scans hundreds of data broker sites, finds your personal information, and they remove it for you. And Deleteme keeps checking on you month after month. Clean up your digital clutter and take back the parts of your life that you never meant to share. Go to JoinDeleteMe.com DeLoney for 20% off an annual plan. That's join DeleteMe.com DeLoney all right, let's go out to North Carolina and talk to Andrew. What's up, Andrew?

Andrew (38:31)

Hey, Dr. John. How are you?

Dr. John Deloney (38:32)

I'm good, brother. How are you, man?

Andrew (38:34)

I'm doing well, thank you. Just trying to prepare for this storm coming in.

Dr. John Deloney (38:37)

Yeah, dude, we're still sitting on top of us, and it is a doozy. It's a doozy. What's up with you?

Andrew (38:45)

So my question is, I'll just get straight to the point, is how much should I involve my kids in this decision to move? They're a little bit older, so that's why I'm a bit of a crossroads with it. They're 16 and 13.

Dr. John Deloney (39:00)

Tell me about the move.

Andrew (39:03)

So I'm getting ready to retire from the military and into summer and kind of looking at what's going to be next. The kids are in high school. We've moved quite a bit nine times in, you know, in about like 13 years or something to that effect. And so we told them whenever we got here this was kind of going to be it. We're going to stick around in North Carolina for a while. But quite frankly, I don't care for it here. My wife doesn't care for it here. And so we had this opportunity coming up to look to relocate. But kids being the ages that they are, it just seems a bit unfair to them. And so that's the, that's the, the. The back and forth that I have in my head. If, you know, we said this was going to be stable for you. However, I don't.

Edward (39:58)

We're.

Andrew (39:58)

Your mom and I are miserable here, so.

Dr. John Deloney (40:00)

Yeah. How old are they?

Andrew (40:04)

I think 16 and 13.

Dr. John Deloney (40:07)

Okay. All right. And what's this new opportunity? Where is it?

Andrew (40:12)

So it's not necessarily set in stone yet. It's just. I don't see finding a job in this area because it's a bit smaller. And so we're looking for somewhere, looking at, you know, in another state.

Dr. John Deloney (40:28)

Okay. So one, Like you said, you're going to need a job. You and your wife have to be connected and decide where y' all are going to be and what kind of life you want to have. Right? And so a miserable, grouchy, grumpy, purposeless mom and dad is not a healthy home for two kids. Right. You know that.

Andrew (40:57)

Right.

Dr. John Deloney (40:58)

And stability, that's important, too. And so I think the challenge for you, you. You gave your life to. To public service, which is extra. Extraordinary. And with that commitment came a lot of moves, a lot of reassigned all the time, which meant a lot of new schools, which meant a lot of your wife finding new grocery stores, all that kind of stuff. Right. You've been through all that. And so the question your wife have to ask is, where does stability exist when my kids have moved so many times? And that stability has to be. Has to be found, anchored into you two and to your love and commitment to them, meaning wherever we live, we are. You get what I'm saying? And so I guess it's a balance of if you told them, hey, this is it. We're never going to move again. We promise we're not going to move you till high school. And then suddenly you have an opportunity in another place, then y' all gonna have to sit down and say, we told you something and we were wrong. We should not have said what we said. And then they get to be sad and upset, and y' all are liars and you're mean, and because they're kids, they're teenagers. And that's. That's part of the deal. What you've learned here is I'm not gonna make next year, or year after that, or year after that promises, because I don't know what the world holds. I will tell my kids. I promise we're gonna do the best we can to stay here. I. Or be even better yet, we have to move again. We got. We got reassigned again. And this is the worst. And I'll just sit here in this discomfort with you. I'm not gonna try to take away the Discomfort by making a promise like, this is the last move out. You get what I'm saying? So you can tell them we learned this lesson. I spoke with absolutes and I shouldn't have, and I'm sorry, guys. And by teaching them that their dad says the words, I was wrong. I'm sorry, teaches them wisdom, teaches them strength, teaches them accountability, ownership, whatever you want to call it. And that's a powerful, powerful lesson.

Andrew (43:04)

I suppose I just, I feel selfish on my end, and that's maybe where. Where it's coming from. Because if, if, if you don't have

Dr. John Deloney (43:10)

a job, that's not selfish. If you, if you have a good job and you just, like, aren't fulfilled or aren't following your passion, yeah, that's selfish. Men are supposed to go do hard things and support their families. Right. And so if you don't have a job, that's not selfish.

Andrew (43:30)

Well, I mean, I guess the, The. Could I find something in this area, right? Would I enjoy it? Probably not, but could I find something that it's. Sure. You know what I'm saying? Like, it's. I don't want to again, speak in absolutes like you say, but it's.

Edward (43:45)

It.

Andrew (43:46)

It's not going to be anything with what, you know, aligns with what I've been doing in the military. Not that it has to, but it's nothing that I'm really experiencing, if that makes any sense. And point being, like, you know, I could find something, sure, but. And that gives some stability. But then I just. I think of it like, my God, so there is, you know, my oldest will be going into her junior year, and then my youngest is still in, what, seventh grade? So I'm just thinking in my head, my God, that is another five or six years here.

Dr. John Deloney (44:18)

Or it's two. Or it's two.

Andrew (44:23)

Well, yeah, I mean, right.

Dr. John Deloney (44:25)

It's. We're gonna get her through her senior year, right? As your young one is going into high school and that's. We're gonna move.

Andrew (44:30)

Well, she's got. It's her. She's like an early college, so it's a. It's three more years for her, really. So then it just gets in that weird.

Dr. John Deloney (44:39)

Yeah. I mean, here's the deal. It's all weird. What I hear, like underneath all of this is you're not going to anything. You're just running. And what I'll tell you is like, you may have heard me say this before, but the worst part about whatever new job you take after the military and wherever you live is that you're going to go with you. And so if you have that internal, I don't know who I am, I don't know what I'm going to do. I don't like myself, I'm tired, I'm all those things that, those are going to end up at whatever state town job you go to already deciding I'm going to hate whatever job I get here. I mean that's a bold, that's a bold prediction or that's, that's an interest, that's a choice to frame what happens next in a certain way before it even happens. And my wife and I have lived in several communities in our 23 and a half years where we look at each other and one or both of us are like, we have to leave now. Like, let's go first, first train out, we're going. I've been there, right? And I had somebody that I care about and love challenge me and say, and I quote, what kind of dad do you think you are? End quote. Because my son moved a lot between grad schools and my me taking different jobs, etc. He moved a lot. And I've got a deep, my son moved more by the time he was five than I did up until I was 30. Something is a very different childhood and I have 40 plus year friendships because I lived on the same street growing up. He doesn't have that. And he has an ability to walk in a room and genuinely be happy to meet an any number of people because that's how he's had to adapt to his life. I don't have that. He does. You get what I'm saying?

Andrew (46:44)

No, yeah, I understand. And, and I, I, I do get the point about, you know, it you fall into this habit sometimes of when you get someplace and you look around at all the factors, like I don't like it here, I don't want to be here. This is not what I thought it was going to be. When's the next thing? Where's the next thing? And you know it. You never really get to be in, you know, be with yourself. And so, I mean, that's kind of where my head's at too in some ways because it's like, well, you know, it. If only we lived in X town and this house with, with this, you know, job or what have you, then, then everything will be. But I understand it won'. Yeah, but I guess it's like I said, it's maybe that last little slither of hope, if you will.

Dr. John Deloney (47:28)

Sure. And, and there is Some truth. Sometimes going to a new house in a new community makes all the difference. Sometimes being in a job that is aligned perfectly magically happens. And it's awesome. I mean, it really is. Anyone who tells you otherwise, it's not. I drove a truck that I was always worried about falling apart until I finally got a new one. And I'm not going to lie, it's awesome. It starts every time I. I turn it on. Right? Like, so. That's cool. It is. It actually is. But if I had hoped that that new truck or that new house or that new place was going to suddenly make me look in the mirror and be like, ah, that's not going to happen. The two things I always tell kids, number one, this is my kids, and this is what I recommend. Anybody never, ever rob them of. The beauty and the wisdom lesson of saying, I was wrong or things have changed or life circumstances have changed, that will be an incredible gift from their father. The next thing is, I never put the full burden on them. Meaning, hey, I'm about to get out of the military. It's looking like things are changing yet again. And I made y' all a promise. I want to hear directly from you, but know this. Your mom and I are going to make the final decision. Because if kids think that their dad is miserable because they want to stay in high school, they can't carry that weight of your emotional health. And if they think they're in charge of where the family lives, they can't carry that weight either. And so letting them know, I want to hear you, but your mom and I are making the final call.

Edward (49:16)

Okay.

Dr. John Deloney (49:17)

Is a. Is a gift. And they're going to be mad and frustrated because I'm 16, I know everything. They don't, but it feels like it. And they're going to get mad. Lots of big emotions. All that's normal. But giving them permission to be heard and then not. And letting them know for sure. You don't hold the final card here. I do. Your mom does. Is a gift. I just want you to be sure you're going to something, not running from something. How long you been in service?

Andrew (49:47)

Yeah, just about 20 years.

Dr. John Deloney (49:51)

Okay.

Andrew (49:51)

In a couple months.

Dr. John Deloney (49:54)

And my experience, sitting with veterans my whole career, that's hard. Being told where to live, what to do, where to go, all that kind of stuff for 20 years and suddenly being released to the wild, that's a. That's a hard thing. Is that fair?

Andrew (50:13)

There's, you know, that. That aspect of it. Sure. You know, there's a lot of uncertainty, just, you know, transition wise for me, just because I got, you know, later in my career, some injuries and everything.

Dr. John Deloney (50:29)

So. That's right. And so be honest and open about those fears. Am I going to still have utility out in the world? I am now responsible for where we live and what job I take, which means I am now responsible for my joy and happiness and, and stability. And it's, it's simply a skill that I'm going to work on because I haven't had that. That's a skill that's atrophied because I outsourced that to this unit for 20 years. Or not this unit, but to this, to this career for 20 years. And so cool. I've got to learn some new skills and getting under that new squat rack, it's going to be hard. My hips are going to hurt, my knees are going to hurt. And by the way, I've got some injuries in both of those things. And so, like, you know what I'm saying? It's when my buddies who are veterans and the people I've sat with, when they're not honest about, hey, this is scary. And I see all these other civilians doing it and it should be easy. I've done all these other hard things. It's just a skill, right? It's like football players trying to play basketball sometimes it looks hilarious. There's a different skill. Doesn't mean they're not great athletes and they're not really amazing at what they did. It's just, this is different now. And so I'm going to be honest about all of it. But you spending some time digging into where do I want to go and who do I want to be, and asking your wife, who do we want to be? Now that we are making all of the decisions for us, getting unity and alignment on that and anchoring into that, that's priority number one and not going into every situation, just assuming it's going to be the worst ever and I'm going to hate it and I'm not going to like it. Maybe, but maybe not. Instead of saying, I am going to go make the best opportunity here, I'm going to go do this stuff. I'm going to work this hard job so that my kids get to. You get to make all those choices. But we're not going to chase feelings, we're going to chase what's the next right move. I'm really honored for your, for your call, brother. Thanks for your service. Thanks for being with us and thanks for trusting me with, like, how to have these conversations. Call anytime. I'll walk with you anytime, brother. It's an honor. Bring them along, but don't make them carry the weight. Kids cannot carry that weight. We'll be right back. This show is sponsored by Better Help. I have had some amazing mentors and friends who are also amazing women. But one of the common themes I hear from all of the women who have poured into me over the years is that between caring for people and all of the other responsibilities and expectations that the whole world dumps on them, Women are under an incredible amount of pressure every minute of every day. And often they're encouraged to overlook their own emotional well being for the care of others. Therapy can be a place where you learn how to set healthy boundaries, how to create some sort of balance and support and overall well being for yourself and for those that you love and care about. To do this, I recommend BetterHelp. BetterHelp is an online therapy platform that matches you with a licensed therapist based on your goals and preferences. You can message your therapist and schedule sessions right in the platform. With over 30,000 therapists, they have the right person for you. And if the first therapist isn't the right fit, you can switch anytime at no additional cost. Listen, your emotional well being matters. Find support in therapy today. Visit betterhelp.com/deloney to get 10% off your first month. That's better help. H E L p.com/deloney all right, we're back. What's up?

Kelly (54:08)

Kelly, I would like you to spend a couple minutes talking about the new app.

Dr. John Deloney (54:14)

Okay.

Kelly (54:14)

And it's kind of telling us, instead of it being like, here's all the talking points and why we should sell it. Like, which, I mean, I know we're

Dr. John Deloney (54:24)

both getting hit up, like, make commercials.

Kelly (54:25)

Make commercials. Exactly. But I want people to hear why you created it, why it's been such a passion project for you. Because this has been a long time in the making for those that, like, aren't on the side of it, that know, and I know how hard you worked on it and the meetings we're in and just all that's involved with it. But instead of marketing it.

Dr. John Deloney (54:44)

Yeah, yeah.

Kelly (54:45)

Tell us why you created it and what you're more importantly even than why you created it, what your hope is for people that use it.

Dr. John Deloney (54:52)

I think the most important thing people need to know is I fought against this thing for over a year. I didn't want any. I, I just, I don't use a lot of apps. I don't like going to Apps for stuff. I fought and fought and fought over it. And when I saw what the. There's a small team of developers that have been working on this thing side by side with me for a long time. When I saw what they were putting out, I thought, okay, this is going to be a game changer at the end of the day. What I'm hearing across the country, private conversations, big conversations from stage, in personal, in people's homes, is I want to have a good or great marriage. And I, I'm at a point now where I don't know. I don't know what to do next. They won't do X, Y or Z. I don't want to do X, Y or Z. We've lost that love and feel and the spark is gone, the. All of those things. And then quite honestly, underneath that, I'm looking at a generation that's just opting out. Fewer people than ever are getting married. And quite honestly, there's been a little snapshot in history where they didn't have to and they thought, I'm going to go chase this other. These other things instead of co creating a life with somebody with a ride or die. And so I say all those things on the show, like, you got to pick a ride or die and y' all got to be in this together and y' all got to co create values and all that stuff. And the most common criticism I get back is, cool, that sounds great. How do I do that? And so what this app is, is us just taking it all the way to the very, very bottom. How do I know what's the next right thing? And what this app does is it texts you, it. It learns you over time, but it asks what you're struggling with. Work, work, life, balance, which is a myth, Mental load, Romance, loss of love and feeling like, what path do you want? And it will walk with you and give you an action step or two to do every day, and it literally will just pop up on your phone and say, go do this. And I want people to stop thinking everything through all of the time, which sounds counterintuitive. We've got to start acting our way towards the lives we want. And I just, I've heard it so much over the last four or five years. I don't know what to do. I don't to do. That's this app I got you. It's a microhabits for your marriage.

Kelly (57:06)

Okay, explain that word. Because in a lot of the marketing that we're seeing around the building is microhabits. So if anyone's seeing any of the ads, you'll see that word microhabits. Explain that, please.

Dr. John Deloney (57:16)

When it comes to fitness, people are like, I'm going to lose £150. That's a great goal. What does that actually mean and how do we do that? And the data tells us that most people have a goal like that and they. And they never see it through. A microhabit is taking this end goal. I want to have a great marriage, all right, so I'm going to get chocolates and I'm going to do the dishes every night and I'm always going to want to have sex and it's impossible. You can't. That's not how it works. You're trying to start from the fireworks show back, right? So a microhabit is what is a small action step I can take on a regular basis that begins to shift how I see and know and celebrate my spouse. And so instead of being like, I don't know what's. You'll get an. It'll pop up on your phone. I don't care how mad you are, I don't care how annoyed you are, whatever. Go make her favorite cup of coffee and go put it by her bed before she wakes up. Exactly how she likes it. If you don't know how she likes it, then you don't know your wife. Go find that out and. Or do one chore that's not normally yours or write one sticky note and go outside and start his car form in the cold and put it on his dashboard like it's a small little steps over time and they're just microhabits. And what happens is like James Clear talks about when you want to, if you want to get in shape, spend a week or two, just drive to the gym and sit in the parking lot for a minute or two and then drive home. We're gonna. That's a microhabit towards changing your actions, which is I wake up and I go to the gym and then I exercise, go get on one treadmill for one minute and then get off. That's what we're headed towards. We are just coaching folks on here's the next right step in your marriage. And so it's breaking it down as small as possible to make them bite sized and actionable. And the feedback we've got on this app, we've been testing it for forever. It's just extraordinary. It's pretty amazing. So I'm excited about it. So that's the app in a nutshell. This is may in a nutshell. What's that from? Oh, yeah, help. I'm in a nutshell, man. That quote came. I don't know where that quote came from, but, yeah, go check it out. You can download it in the App Store. Search together in the App Store. And yes, Android folks, I get it. We're coming for you. Just take about 30 off, maybe 40 off. But if you got an iPhone, go check it out in the App Store. Love you guys. Bye.