My Son’s Girlfriend Is 2 Years Younger Than Me

Summary

Podcast Summary: The Dr. John Deloney Show Episode: My Son’s Girlfriend Is 2 Years Younger Than Me
Release Date: May 30, 2025
Host: Ramsey Network
Description: The Dr. John Deloney Show is a caller-driven program offering real talk on relationships and mental health challenges. Listeners are encouraged to engage by sending voicemails or emails.

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1. Introduction

The episode begins with Dr. John Deloney announcing new dates for the "Money and Marriage Getaway," scheduled for Valentine's Day weekend 2026 in Nashville, Tennessee. He briefly interacts with his co-host, Kelly, sharing a personal anecdote about watching the movie Tombstone together, highlighting memorable quotes that underscore the importance of friendship.

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2. Denise’s Call: Navigating Parental Concerns Over an Adult Child’s Relationship

Caller: Denise
Issue: Denise, a 39-year-old mother, seeks advice about her 20-year-old son’s new relationship with a 37-year-old woman. She grapples with whether her attempts to steer him away from this relationship are irrational.

Discussion Highlights:

• Age Dynamics: Denise expresses concern over the significant age gap between her son and his girlfriend.

  Denise (00:21): "My 20-year-old son has started a relationship with a 37-year-old woman and I want to know if I'm irrational for trying to steer him away from."

• Parental Control and Boundaries: Dr. Deloney challenges Denise to consider her role in her adult son's life, questioning the extent of her influence and financial support.

  Dr. John Deloney (04:16): "If you want an adult and make adult decisions and you still live in my house... I'm not going to contribute to that."

• Financial Leverage: Denise mentions her son has started paying rent after previously living rent-free. Dr. Deloney advises that financial boundaries can reinforce adult responsibilities.

  Denise (08:26): "We've recently started having him pay us rent because he was living here rent-free."

• Cultural and Personal Reflections: The discussion includes reflections on Denise having her child at a young age and relating past experiences to her current situation.

  Dr. John Deloney (05:49): "Imagine a 39-year-old woman talking to your 21-year-old husband about sex and love... he got lots of friends. And he goes, I don't."

• Final Advice: Dr. Deloney encourages Denise to set firm boundaries, potentially cutting off financial support if necessary, to empower her son to make independent decisions.

  Dr. John Deloney (09:08): "You can't have both... you're on a pretty dangerous path."

Notable Quotes:

• Denise (04:16): "You can choose to continue to fund his life or not."
• Dr. John Deloney (11:56): "Be frank with him... she may have found herself a hot little 20-year-old."

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3. Marie’s Call: Improving Communication in a Marital Relationship

Caller: Marie
Issue: Marie struggles with constant arguments with her husband, poor communication, and is on the brink of leaving the marriage.

Discussion Highlights:

• Communication Breakdown: Marie describes a cycle of arguments where minor issues derail discussions about significant relationship problems.

  Marie (21:49): "We argue about everything. We don't really communicate that well."

• Emotional Release vs. Problem-Solving: Dr. Deloney explains that many arguments stem from a need for emotional release rather than actual problem-solving, leading to a parasitic relationship dynamic.

  Dr. John Deloney (24:26): "People who argue all the time think they're trying to solve a problem, but they're trying to get an emotional release."

• Establishing Ground Rules: He advises setting clear ground rules for discussions, such as using "I" statements, taking breaks when triggered, and focusing on major issues rather than minor grievances.

  Dr. John Deloney (25:33): "Every one of these things... have to start with I statements, not you statements."

• Rebuilding the Relationship: Marie expresses a desire to rebuild the marriage but fears the outcome. Dr. Deloney emphasizes the importance of vulnerability and setting up actionable plans for improvement.

  Marie (31:19): "I don't want to completely give up on it yet."

Notable Quotes:

• Dr. John Deloney (27:09): "What I want is to have our son do what I want him to do."
• Marie (33:52): "I feel like I want someone to take care of me instead of me taking care of someone."

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4. Edward’s Call: Seeking Closure After Kidney Donation

Caller: Edward
Issue: A year after donating his kidney to a stranger, Edward seeks closure as he has not received any acknowledgment or contact from the recipient.

Discussion Highlights:

• Expectations vs. Reality: Edward anticipated some form of gratitude or communication from the recipient but was met with silence, leading to feelings of incompleteness.

  Edward (38:22): "I'm hoping someone can put me in the place of what might be going through the recipients."

• Internal vs. External Validation: Dr. Deloney addresses the expectation of external validation for altruistic actions, encouraging Edward to find internal closure.

  Dr. John Deloney (44:15): "People who win are the ones that complete that narrative internally."

• Letting Go of the Open Loop: He advises Edward to write an imaginary letter to the recipient to process his feelings and release the need for closure.

  Dr. John Deloney (49:30): "Write them an imaginary letter... stop carrying around this open loop."

• Philosophical Reflection: The conversation delves into the philosophy of doing good without expecting outcomes, suggesting that the act itself is inherently fulfilling.

  Dr. John Deloney (46:05): "Are we doing stuff because there's good in and of itself, or only for the value in the end result."

Notable Quotes:

• Edward (45:08): "How do I work through the fact that I may never read the last pages of the book of my kidney donation?"
• Dr. John Deloney (50:53): "You did a good thing, brother. You did a good thing."

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5. Molly’s Call: Concerns Over Screen Time in Childcare at Church

Caller: Molly
Issue: Molly is upset that her church’s childcare program for toddlers uses TV screens to pacify children. She questions whether she is unreasonable for pushing back against this practice.

Discussion Highlights:

• Screen Use for Young Children: Molly aligns her concerns with the American Academy of Pediatrics' guidelines for screen-free environments for young children.

  Molly (58:49): "Is Am I the problem for being upset?"

• Dr. Deloney’s Perspective: He empathizes with Molly’s stance, agreeing that screen time can be detrimental and supports her right to seek alternative childcare arrangements.

  Dr. John Deloney (60:14): "I agree with the American Pediatric association and I don't think I've ever said that sentence on this particular thing."

• Empowerment to Make Choices: He encourages Molly to take action, such as finding a different childcare option if her concerns are not addressed.

  Dr. John Deloney (60:22): "She's allowed to have her feelings hurt and she's got to go find a different childcare if that's a priority for her."

Notable Quotes:

• Molly (60:25): "If she doesn't like the way they do it, she can go."
• Dr. John Deloney (60:14): "Find a different childcare if that's what, if that's a priority for her."

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6. Kelly’s Follow-Up: Reflecting on Age Differences in Relationships

Caller: Kelly
Issue: Kelly discusses a hypothetical scenario of her 19-year-old son dating a significantly older woman, expressing disbelief and concern over handling such a situation.

Discussion Highlights:

• Hypothetical Concerns: Kelly shares her discomfort with her son dating someone older, emphasizing potential legal and personal repercussions.

  Kelly (55:53): "If you don't want them two together, I can get the narrative I need to keep him as close as possible to me."

• Emotional Reactions: She admits to feeling overwhelmed and unable to fathom managing such a relationship dynamic.

  Kelly (56:34): "I would, I would be in jail. Let's just probably say that I would probably."

• Dr. Deloney’s Response: He acknowledges the complexity and sensitivity of the situation, reflecting on his own challenges in understanding such dynamics.

  Dr. John Deloney (57:31): "But again, the whole thing's just a messy situation."

Notable Quotes:

• Kelly (56:34): "I can't even fathom how I would handle that."
• Dr. John Deloney (57:42): "You would just see Kelly's supernova from space."

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7. Conclusion

Dr. Deloney wraps up the episode by reinforcing the theme of ongoing mental, emotional, and spiritual health work. He highlights tools like the Hallow app for prayer and meditation and mentions sponsors like Bon Charge and Cozy Earth, which offer products related to mental well-being and comfortable living.

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Final Thoughts and Key Insights

• Parental Boundaries: Establishing clear financial and emotional boundaries is crucial when parenting adult children to encourage independence and responsible decision-making.
• Effective Communication: Using "I" statements and setting ground rules can transform toxic communication patterns into constructive dialogues in marital relationships.
• Internal Closure: Seeking internal closure rather than relying solely on external validation can lead to personal peace, especially in altruistic actions like organ donation.
• Advocating for Children’s Well-being: Parents have the right to advocate for their children's environments, even if it means seeking alternative arrangements that align with their values.
• Navigating Complex Relationships: Hypothetical or real concerns about significant age differences in relationships require sensitive handling and may necessitate professional guidance.

Notable Overall Quotes:

• Dr. John Deloney (09:08): "If you want an adult to make adult decisions, you have to make adult decisions in parenting."
• Dr. John Deloney (44:15): "People who win are the ones that complete that narrative internally."
• Dr. John Deloney (50:53): "You did a good thing, brother. You did a good thing."

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This episode of The Dr. John Deloney Show delves into the complexities of modern relationships, parenting adult children, and personal fulfillment through altruistic actions. Listeners gain valuable insights into setting boundaries, improving communication, and finding internal peace amidst challenging personal circumstances.

Transcript

[Dr. John Deloney]

Big news. New dates for money and marriage Getaway just dropped for Valentine's Day weekend, 2026. Get [e-mail] events to get away with your spouse in Nashville, Tennessee.

[Denise]

My 20 year old son, he has started a relationship with a 37 year old woman and I want to know if I'm irrational for trying to steer him away from.

[Dr. John Deloney]

How old are you?

[Denise]

I'm 39.

[Dr. John Deloney]

No way. What's up? What's up? What's up? This is John with the Dr. John Maloney show coming to you live in reverse from Nashville, Tennessee, taking your calls on your mental and emotional health and your relationships and whatever you got going on in your life. I'd love to hear from you. Shoot me an email. For you older folks, that's an electronic letter that you just hit send on. You don't have to put a stamp on it. For you younger folks, it's a long form dm. You don't slide into an email as much as you just like walk down the hall. But however you get it to me, John Deloney.com/a S K, fill out the form F O R M and hit send and it'll go to Kelly and she may call you up. Wake me up before you go. I can tell you right now this is gonna be a tough show. I know. I tell you, Kelly, for those that.

[Kelly]

Don'T know, it's already been a tough show and it just started. This is our fifth show recording this week.

[Dr. John Deloney]

It's gonna be a tough show. And that's not in addition to all the other media.

[Kelly]

Yeah. Everybody else, everybody's a little fried around the edges today, being honest.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Not me. I am full go, full tilt.

[Kelly]

Let's just get started.

[Dr. John Deloney]

I'm 100%. Or as the great Doc Holliday said, I'm in my prime.

[Kelly]

Yes. We actually watched Tombstone last night.

[Dr. John Deloney]

That makes you a good family.

[Kelly]

It's a great movie. It's one of my top five of all time.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Every single time, 100 of the time. Those guys over by the river ask, why are you doing this, Doc? And Doc says, oh dude, it's happening again because I'm tired. We get choked up. He said, cuz Wyatt's my friend. And he said I got lots of friends. And he goes, I don't. I cry every time because I have friends like that that on their deathbed would be like, if we're going to dance and we're going to hide a body, I'll be there. Give me a minute. And oh my gosh, Cuz Wyatt's my friend. What a great line. Tucson, Arizona. Let's talk to Denise. What's up, Denise?

[Denise]

Hi, Dr. John.

[Dr. John Deloney]

What's going on?

[Denise]

My call. Doing good. Thank you.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Awesome. What's going on? How can I help?

[Denise]

Oh, Dr. John, my question is about parenting an adult child.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Okay, good. Because my 9 year old is not having me right now and so I need to pass on nine year old parenting questions. But I'm happy to lecture you on adult child questions. What's up?

[Denise]

Please do. So my 20 year old son, he's my oldest, he has started a relationship with a 37 year old woman and I want to know if I'm irrational for trying to steer him away from her.

[Dr. John Deloney]

How old are you?

[Denise]

I'm 39.

[Dr. John Deloney]

No way. Have you tried to fight her like at a pool hall?

[Denise]

No, I haven't met her. So no.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Good girl.

[Marie]

Don't watch you.

[Dr. John Deloney]

How did you find out he's dating a 37 year old? He just came home and volunteered that.

[Denise]

No, of course not now. So my son got a job with my husband with. Through his work.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Okay.

[Denise]

And so he met her through work.

[Dr. John Deloney]

So she. This woman works with your husband?

[Denise]

Oh, well, yeah, she's one of my husband's employees.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Oh dang, Gina.

[Denise]

Usually most of the information I gather is either through word of mouth, through co workers from my husband, or actually me through social media.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Dude, your son is dating a woman who's your age.

[Denise]

Yeah, exactly.

[Dr. John Deloney]

So what do you propose to do?

[Denise]

Well, I've tried having conversations with him in regards to what he wants for his future and so far all I've gotten is like one word answers and I don't see any resolution of this ever stopping anytime soon. He seems adamant that he's going to be dating her.

[Dr. John Deloney]

You had your son when you were 19.

[Denise]

Yes.

[Marie]

Correct.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Put yourself back in 18 year old used shoes. Some adult wants to come talk to you about love and sex and connection. How would that go?

[Denise]

I think I would have been stubborn. I'm going to do it my way.

[Dr. John Deloney]

How old's your husband?

[Denise]

My husband is 41.

[Dr. John Deloney]

41.

[Denise]

He's been married for 21 years.

[Dr. John Deloney]

So imagine a 39 year old woman talking to your 21 year old husband about sex and love and what's the next right move?

[Denise]

I haven't, I haven't thought about that.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Dr. John, what would he have said? What? I mean, you knew him at 21. What would he have said? What would he have said if he came to you at 21? He's like, hey, we're going to stop having sex. Somebody sat down and told me our future is more important and we might get pregnant at 19 and we, we need to do X, Y and Z first. I'm going to go like, what would you, can you. Is that, is that like, that's. You started laughing. That's like comical, right?

[Denise]

Yeah.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Yeah. And I'm not saying what your 20 year old's doing is right. I mean, clearly he's in over his head. Okay, but, but the, the process of trying to lecture and talk him through X, Y and Z is really relatively futile. He's a 20 year old man. Now here's where you can tighten the screws up and here's where, where I would tighten the screws up. And it's not just about him dating a 37 year old. It's any number of things is looking at where I am contributing to his life. Meaning if you want to be an adult and make adult decisions and you still live in my house, I'm still paying your car insurance, you're still on my cell phone plan, I'm still paying for your college, I'm putting groceries in your fridge. I'm not going to contribute to that. I love you. I'll sit with you when this goes well or this goes sideways. But I'm not going to financially contribute to a life that I see you are in a, you're fast approaching a brick wall and you're in a car with a foot, with a gas pedal all the way down on the floor. So does he still live with you?

[Denise]

Yeah, he does. Well, he went off to college, so he. Well, initially he went off to college for two semesters. He didn't do so well. He was out of state.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Okay.

[Denise]

And then when it didn't work out well, through his bad decisions, we brought him to live with us in Arizona and since then he's been working at my husband's work.

[Dr. John Deloney]

And what's the deal with this woman? Your husband knows her?

[Denise]

Yeah, I mean, he doesn't know her know her, but he knows of her. Like he sees her around the facility.

[Dr. John Deloney]

But she doesn't work for him, she just works with him.

[Denise]

Well, my husband's in like a leadership role, so he talks to the employees, but he's not like, has he fired her? No, he has not. He's actually trying to be very careful about not doing anything wrong because everybody at work knows about this. So even make jokes like, oh, there's your future daughter in law.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Yeah, for sure. And by the way, I would be a hundred percent making those jokes, by the way.

[Denise]

And it is kind of funny, but it's not.

[Dr. John Deloney]

No, it's not funny at all. But that's kind of one of my, one of my character flaws, I think. I, I usually know I'm not going to be friends with somebody if they say the words too soon. I'm like, hey, we're probably going to be good friends.

[Denise]

I mean, we've recently started having him pay us rent because he was living here rent free. So I mean, is that reasonable?

[Dr. John Deloney]

Here's the deal. Anything you want to do is reasonable. Here's what your son needs to know. Like what you want is to have your son do what you want him to do. But you don't want the parental pressure of having to tighten the screws down and make him choose between the comfort his mom has given him and the painful realities of being an adult. And you can't have both.

[Denise]

No.

[Dr. John Deloney]

And a lot of especially young mothers, they're. They're who? Or even with adult kids, their kid is their entire identity. And I don't like to tell them, no, I don't like to tell them you have to move out. I don't like to tell them you can't, we can't afford this college. I don't like to tell them you got to drive this old beat up car. Because if he feels bad, then I feel bad because he is my entire identity and I'm not. I don't want to cast that on you, but I hear that a lot.

[Denise]

Well, he's not my only child. I also have a 14 year old son.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Yeah, we don't care.

[Denise]

I mean he, I'm just kidding.

[Dr. John Deloney]

So here's the thing. You can sit down with him and say, look, I don't approve of this relationship. I think it's dangerous for you. I think you're being preyed upon by somebody twice your age. You can do that and you can say, so as somebody who is the main funder of your life, I'm cutting off that spigot. You have a choice to make. You can say you cannot live here, you can pay your own bills, you can do everything you want to do like that. But I can in good conscience continue to fund your life while you do things that I know are going to hurt you down the road. And even if this particular relationship doesn't hurt you, the, the follow up relationships might be distorted and different because of this experience as, as a young 20 year old, you're not even 20. You're not even old enough to drink yet you can do that or you can just say, dude, I'm never going to have him move out. Ever. I'm not going to do that ever, ever, ever. I'm not ever going to make him pay his own cell phone bill. You have to look yourself in the mirror with that and that means you have zero leverage to tell him how to live his life. And in that case, you're sitting across the table from him in a diner saying, I would never have traded you for the world. And having a baby at 19 was, it was tough.

[Denise]

Thanks.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Let me tell you about, let me tell you about women my age. Or you want to, you want to shock his system, look at him and say, hey honey, sex is awesome. It's really great. And it can be used for really abusive situations. Here you're having sex with somebody as old as your mom.

[Denise]

I have said that to him.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Be frank with him. And, and what you're doing is you're not using the, your, the power of your purse. You're using the power of connection and persuasion. I have my own opinions on what I would do, but it doesn't matter what I would do. It's a matter of what you're going to do and what you can live with. What'd your husband say about all this?

[Denise]

He doesn't agree with it either.

[Dr. John Deloney]

I know, but flip it around. Let's say you had a 20 year old daughter and his 37 year old co worker was, was sleeping with her.

[Denise]

Yeah. Oh God. I think it would be totally different.

[Edward]

Why?

[Denise]

Probably would be growing up because that would be his little girl.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Okay, well this is his little boy.

[Denise]

Yeah.

[Dr. John Deloney]

That 20 year old needs the same level of protection and I know he's an adult and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. He's over his head, man. And quote, unquote, be real careful. If I have a toy, if I have a business and my son or daughter is getting preyed upon by somebody who's twice their age, they're not working for me. They're just not. Because if I can't trust you to have the dignity and respect not to sleep with my kid half your age, I can't trust you on simple matters like make sure the sales numbers are right, make sure the engine is cleaned right. I can't trust you in the little stuff if you would disrespect me in such a spectacular way. What's this woman's end game?

[Denise]

That's where I don't really know. I don't know what, I don't know if she thinks that he's gonna get money or if she wants to have. She had. Oh, I didn't mention. She had a pregnancy scare about a month ago. That was great. In her household. Turns out she's not.

[Dr. John Deloney]

How in the world would that be a surprise?

[Denise]

Yeah. No. Yeah. Well, they weren't using condoms, but now they are, apparently.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Denise.

[Denise]

I'm.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Yeah, they're not. You know. They're not.

[Marie]

They are.

[Denise]

My other son found a condom in the backseat of my. My oldest car. So they are.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Ah, they're not. But it is. If that's. I would. I would tell myself that every night, too. So I. I'm with you on that. I'm with you.

[Denise]

Yeah.

[Dr. John Deloney]

So here's the thing. You can't do anything about it legally. You just can't. No, the only thing you can do is make some hard calls as a parent.

[Denise]

Would it be out of. Would it be crazy if I called her and spoke with her or had a meetup with her?

[Dr. John Deloney]

I don't. I don't think that'll go well. She's. Let me say it this way. In. In a weird way, she is. But in your world, she's not the problem. Your son is.

[Denise]

Okay. Yeah.

[Dr. John Deloney]

And she may have found herself a hot little 20 year old young thing, and she's living her life within the bounds of the law. And maybe her dad was 72 and her mom was 52. This is just how she grew up. I don't know. But you can say, dude, it's weird for my son to be sleeping with somebody the same age as me. You can say, son, you're over your head. And I know this is all exciting and fun and all that, but you're. You're on a. You're on a pretty dangerous path.

[Denise]

Yeah.

[Dr. John Deloney]

And you can choose whether to continue to fund his life or not. If my kids find themselves in situations that I'm just watching can only end negatively, I am going to sit down with him and have some direct, loving, connected conversations. I might even say, I'll go to your wedding. You're not gonna live here. You're gonna be an adult. If you're gonna make adult decisions, you're gonna make it. You're gonna make adult. You're gonna have an adult life. I'll go to your wedding, though. I'll be kind and cordial if you bring her over. Or maybe that's the move that. You know what, now that I'm talking out loud, that might be the move. Invite her over for dinner.

[Denise]

No, I don't want her Here, invite her over. I don't want her in my house. I don't mind meeting up with her.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Oh, she's been in your house in public, but she's been in your house. Like invite her over.

[Denise]

I don't want her.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Yeah, make dinner. Make a delicious dinner. Be like, so dating my 20 year old son. Tell me about yourself.

[Denise]

That's gonna go really well in the conversation.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Okay, but how is it going? Well, now it's not okay. You want to keep doing the same things but have different outcomes. I'm just throwing things up against the wall.

[Denise]

Yeah, well, I appreciate it.

[Dr. John Deloney]

And if you're doing things differently with a daughter than you would with a son, I think you'll need to challenge yourself.

[Denise]

All right. Yeah, you bring up a good point. I didn't think of that way.

[Dr. John Deloney]

And you have to hold this open handedly. There's nothing you can do about it. And that's heartbreaking for parenting adult children. I hear that over and over and over. I thought parenting was hard at when they were four. It's impossible when they're older because they're walking right into the same mistakes and challenges and hard experiences that I went through and I can't do anything about it.

[Denise]

That's how I feel.

[Dr. John Deloney]

It is. Your feelings are right. And it's worth spending a moment in time grieving, not being sad that your little boy is now a very young man. And that's when the relationship in many ways shifts from I'm going to tell you what to do to hey, will you go have coffee with me? I need to tell you some stories about my life that you don't really know. And this is what I'm seeing. I love you. I can't, I can't control what you do after this meal. But I just want you to know I love you. And I also want you to know that if things go sideways, you can always come home. You can always come home. You're moved. Denise, I would love it if you sent us a picture of an amazing home cooked meal with this wide eyed 37 year old girlfriend of your son sitting at the kitchen table wondering what just happened. That would be incredible. Denise, be a legend. We come back, we talk to a woman who is nervous to talk about a sensitive topic with her husband cuz he might get mad. We'll be right back. There's no finish line when it comes to your mental and emotional and spiritual health. You don't wake up one day and just say, all right, I've arrived. Your mental and emotional and Your spiritual health. It's ongoing work. It's daily work. And for me, a big part of that daily work is staying emotionally and spiritually grounded. And that's why I use every day Hallow. Hallow is the number one prayer and meditation app in the world and it helps me stay centered when life gets loud. It's a great tool that helps me stay connected, helps me slow down, and it helps me be grateful. Whether it's the guided meditations, the music, or the scripture readings, Hallow helps me be mindful even when life feels like it has gone off the rails. It helps me quiet the noise and be still intentionally on purpose. If you've recently started building some spiritual or emotional health habits or you're exploring what this all means, get started with Hallow today. These five minute moments add up over time and they create something real. Carve out the space, make the time, set the reminders, and if you haven't tried Hallow yet, now's the time. Go to hallow.com DeLoney and get three months completely free. That's three months completely free at hallow.com DeLoney all right, I've been talking about the benefits of red light therapy forever. And that's why I'm excited to tell you about Bon Charge. Our lives are lived almost entirely inside under the harrowing glow of fluorescent lights and little tiny screens and medium sized screens and gigantic screens and sometimes all these screens at the same time. All of this stuff affects our mood, our sleep, our anxiety, and the studies are showing it. And this is why I love Bon Charge. Bon Charge is a world leader in red light therapy and EMF blocking gear. I use their red light therapies every single day. Red light therapy can help boost your mood, reduce stress and help with sleep. And I use my red light therapy panels, the infrared sauna blanket, the EMF mat, all of it. Listen up. If your skin looks tired, check out Bon Charge's red light mask for skin recovery, collagen production and improved blood flow. I got the mask and it is awesome. Just wear it 10 minutes a few times a week for fresher skin. And it's simple. There's no creams or appointments, it's lightweight and it's Cordless. Go to boncharge.com DeLoney and use coupon code DeLoney to save 15%. That's B O N C-H-A R G E bondcharge.com DeLoney use coupon code DeLoney to save fifteen. All right, let's go to Pittsburgh and talk to Dear Marie what's up, Marie?

[Marie]

Hi. What up, Dr. John? Sitting here in the rainy western Pennsylvania kind of nervous today.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Oh, that's very. Are you nervous about talking to me or nervous about the rain talking to you?

[Marie]

Okay, so very cool.

[Dr. John Deloney]

I'm glad you called. What's up?

[Marie]

Okay, so this is my initial question. So how can I have a conversation with my husband about the nature of our relationship without it turning into an argument every single time?

[Dr. John Deloney]

So I don't know. Why are you arguing with him?

[Marie]

Well, he does. We honestly. We argue about everything. We don't really communicate that well. Tried going to therapy. Like, I was. I'm in therapy. I've been in for about three years. I try to get him to go, and he doesn't, like, say anything, and I don't know how to get him to open up and communicate with me. And I'm like, I'm at a point where I'm one foot in and one foot out the door.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Yeah, of course. But why would he communicate with you if you'll fight every time?

[Marie]

I don't know. I mean, it's hard. Like, so do you get what I'm saying? Like, I don't know.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Like, if you'll fight over everything and you disagree over everything, why in the world would he talk?

[Marie]

I don't. Yeah, I mean, I, I, I get it.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Let me ask you this. What does. What does disagreeing and fighting get you? Not y' all, but you.

[Marie]

Nowhere.

[Dr. John Deloney]

But it gives you something because you keep doing it over and over and over and over again. What does it bring you?

[Marie]

I don't know. I mean, feeling of, like, I just wish he would. I don't know. I just wish he would listen and.

[Dr. John Deloney]

But he, but he never does. Ever, ever, ever, ever. No, not when y' all are arguing. So why do you keep doing it? What is it? What is it bringing you?

[Marie]

Well, and I, I think that's where I realized that it's not bringing me anything, so I'm shutting down from it, and I'm just not talking to him, like, at all.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Okay.

[Marie]

So he takes that as everything's hunky dory. Fine.

[Dr. John Deloney]

He doesn't. I don't think that's true because I think he knows. I think he takes that as he's going to accept the piece of cord that's on the table, even though it's a bad deal for everybody.

[Edward]

Yeah.

[Dr. John Deloney]

My guess is this. A lot of people argue all the time, thinking they're trying to solve a problem. That's not what they're trying to Do. What they're trying to do is get an emotional release. And over time, when two people are trying to get an emotional release with and from each other, what ends up happening is it becomes a parasitic relationship. I'm using you to vomit on so that I can get an exhale. And I hate the way this feels. And so I'm going to blame you that we didn't get anywhere from this vomiting. I just did. And vice versa.

[Marie]

Yeah.

[Dr. John Deloney]

And eventually one person quits.

[Marie]

Yeah. I think we both have quit. That's my point.

[Dr. John Deloney]

All right, so the question you have to ask is this, because you don't argue with your boss every time you go in. You don't argue with your mom or your dad every second you see them. Right. Or your grandmother. Right?

[Marie]

No.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Okay, so that tells me you have the mental and emotional and psychological and physical capabilities of not arguing.

[Marie]

Right.

[Dr. John Deloney]

And so you have to sit down and say, I'm going to be an adult, and I'm going to choose to not fight, and I'm going to choose that we need to solve some major problems, you and me, and our quote, unquote, communication stuff. That's not the issue here. What's at stake here is these big rocks. And so I'm going to commit to when I feel triggered, when I feel set off. I'm going to exhale. I may have to take a walk around the living room, but I'm going to come back to the table.

[Marie]

Yeah.

[Dr. John Deloney]

And y' all just establish ground rules. And if y' all. If y' all. If one of you says, I'm not doing that, then that's. That's what you need to know.

[Marie]

Yeah, I just. He, like. I. I don't. He just, like, changes the topic, though, like, every time we're arguing about something. Like, I'll try to tell him, you know, I'm. I've got one foot out the door. I'm like, I can't keep going around in these circles. And then he'll bring up, like, an argument we had about something stupid. Like, I don't even know. Just, like, random stuff. Like, stupid things, like, why didn't I wash his laundry? Or, you know, like, hold on. I don't.

[Dr. John Deloney]

How in the world do you have the right to judge what is stupid and what's not stupid? If he's. If he's putting it on the table, this is a pain point for me. And you're like, that's stupid. I got one foot out the door. I'd quit talking to you, too.

[Marie]

Yeah.

[Dr. John Deloney]

If you Sat down and said, hey, you're not happy in this house. I'm not happy in this house. And I want to be happy with you in this house. I'm willing to sit here for 45 minutes and just let you go. What's in your heart, man? And he's probably going to start with Tic Tac stuff. Well, you said you were going to do the laundry and you didn't do mine last week. And the dog was barking, and you always take care of the dog, and you didn't go get it. You'll start there. And if you can just swallow your ego for a second for 5, 10 minutes, 15 minutes, and then it will get to. I'm exhausted. We don't have any money. I feel like I'm on a treadmill. I feel like you spend money like crazy. I feel like I don't like how I feel. My clothes don't fit. Like, you'll get to the real stuff.

[Marie]

Yeah.

[Dr. John Deloney]

And then vice versa. But if every time you sit down to say, I've got a grenade I want to throw, and then he throws one back, and you're like, yours is stupid. Well, of course I'm not going to talk. And by the way, if your grenade is. Your grenade is bigger, your grenade's a threat. I'm already halfway out the door. I'm leaving you.

[Marie]

Yeah.

[Dr. John Deloney]

So here's my big question. Are you done with this marriage?

[Marie]

Sometimes I think I am not.

[Dr. John Deloney]

What I asked you, are you done with this marriage?

[Marie]

I don't know.

[Denise]

Really.

[Dr. John Deloney]

If you're not done with this marriage, you have to have the vulnerability and the astounding bravery and courage to sit down and say, I will go all in if you will.

[Marie]

I think that's what I'm afraid of doing. To opening is opening up to him. Because I don't know how he's going to receive that.

[Dr. John Deloney]

So what you're trying to do is, is threaten him into coming to rescue you. And what you're doing is you're making it very hard to come rescue you. And in the process, you're not just going to step off the edge. You're going to fall. You get what I'm saying? Like, you're dangling over the edge. And, like, you better keep getting me. You better come get me. You better come get me, and you're going to slip. Yeah. So. So let me ask, what is so scary? Are you scared of physical violence?

[Marie]

No.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Okay.

[Marie]

Not at all.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Are you scared of emotional berating? You suck. I'm swearing at you, screaming at you. Pounding the table at you. No. Okay. It sounds like there's one underlying fear here, and I want you to just say, nope, you're wrong, or crap, that's it. You're afraid if you go all in, he may say, I'm out.

[Marie]

I don't even know if that's it, because. And in his and I's relationship, I've spent all of our almost 20 years together basically taking care of him, and I've gotten pushed to the wayside, and now I don't know how to say what I need and hope that he will come back at me with, okay, I'm here for you because that's what I'm afraid he's not. He's not going to.

[Dr. John Deloney]

And what about if I talk to him? Would he say, dude, for the last 20 years, I've been told what we're going to eat, what I'm going to wear, where we're going to live, where the kids are going to go to school.

[Marie]

No, no, not. Not really. No. He's. He. He's.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Have you been his mother for the last 20 years?

[Marie]

Pretty much.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Okay. That's where you start. That's where you start, like his mom. That's where you got to start. I've been your mom for the last 20 years, and I. I've got to be done. Done with that. I want to be your wife.

[Marie]

Yeah. Yeah. I've kind of felt like between his mom that he lost years ago and I, like, I have a fourth child in my house in a way, so there's.

[Dr. John Deloney]

There's a. Both end to that conversation. He has acted like a fourth child, and you have treated him like one.

[Marie]

Yeah.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Both of you have participated in this dance.

[Marie]

Yep.

[Dr. John Deloney]

And so part of this is you're grieving 20 years where instead of having a lover, you've had a fourth kid. Basically, it's partially on you, and that's partially on him. Fair.

[Marie]

Yep.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Okay. Don't vomit your grief on him as much as take your grief and set it on the table. I've been your mother for 20 years, and I. I'm done with that.

[Edward]

Yeah.

[Dr. John Deloney]

I want to be your wife or I want to be your girlfriend again, because we have to rebuild this marriage. And I want to find out if we. If you and I still want to be married to each other.

[Marie]

And I think that's where I'm at. I do. I do want to. You know, I do want to try to figure out, hey, is this worth rebuilding or are we just giving up? I don't. I don't I don't want to completely give up on it yet.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Can I be honest with you? I don't hear that. You do. And I think that may scare you to death.

[Marie]

It does.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Okay.

[Marie]

Definitely does.

[Dr. John Deloney]

So the harshest reality of where you are is the only way it works is if you close the door and take one foot out of the door and put both feet back in that house.

[Marie]

Okay.

[Dr. John Deloney]

And he may walk right out the back door tactically. Like, like, like. Here's how this goes. A, B, C and D. Number one, I want you to spend a few minutes or a few hours alone writing down what it is you want. I want X, Y or Z. I want a, B and C. That's number one. Number two, set up a time and let them know we're having a grown up conversation. No yelling, no fighting, no, we're not here to disagree on minute things. We got some big stuff we got to talk about. And I love you and I want us to agree that we're gonna have this hard conversation. Oh, what's that about? Are you serious? You're gonna be doing that? No, no, we're not doing that. We're not doing that. This one's for real. And you know that you have a voice when you can be whiny and naggy, and you have a voice that when you can be angry. And then you also have a voice when he knows you're being serious, Right?

[Marie]

Yep.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Okay. That's the one I'm talking about. And I want y' all, if you can leave the house, great. If not, find a place where there's no screens or anything. We all can look directly at each other. And no kids. And then here's the fourth big one. Every one of these things that you bring up at the very beginning have to start with I statements, not you statements. For the last 20 years, I have acted in the role as your mom. And I've wanted you to have this kind of life. I wanted you to be at peace. I've wanted you to feel good. And I have acted like your mother.

[Marie]

Yeah.

[Dr. John Deloney]

And I am tired and I am no longer going to do that. And I still love you to the moon and back. And I want to us to start dating again and find a spark that we had or find a new spark.

[Marie]

Yeah. I want. I feel like I want someone to take care of me instead of me taking care of someone.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Say those exact words.

[Marie]

Yeah.

[Dr. John Deloney]

I want to be your wife and I want you to spoil me and I want you to take care of me and be Honest. I don't know how to do that.

[Denise]

Okay.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Because I think you like the idea of being taken care of, and I think you would fight somebody trying to take care of you, especially at the beginning.

[Marie]

Yes.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Is that fair? Okay. So be honest. I want you to take care of me, and I don't know how to let you do that. And you can laugh and say, I don't even know if you know how to do that.

[Marie]

Yeah.

[Dr. John Deloney]

And the big question is, are we willing to learn how to do that together? And then you'll get to. If he's. And then let's pretend he's all in. Yes. Thank God. This is amazing. I love it. I'm all in. Before you leave, you leave with a small action plan.

[Marie]

Okay.

[Dr. John Deloney]

From this point forward, no more yelling. From this point forward, if I say the words, I have a vulnerable thing to say. All the screens go down, face down. And the promise is no rebuttals. I'm just going to say it out loud. I'm not doing laundry anymore. Or you're going to be responsible for your laundry for 30 days or 60 days or 90 days. We're going to try it out. Whatever those. Whatever those little knickknacks are, y' all co create a 30 or 60 day plan with what comes next. And listen, he may say, I am all in, and I'll scare you to death. And he may say, I'm out, and that'll break your heart.

[Marie]

Yeah, I don't know that he'll be out. I have a hard time telling him what's on my mind and what I'm thinking. And so if you.

[Dr. John Deloney]

If you go in and sit down and say, I've not done a good job of telling you what I'm feeling over the years and I've blamed you for it, and I'm sorry.

[Marie]

Yeah.

[Dr. John Deloney]

You see, man, you're talking about a revolutionary change. And let's say this, if he walks out the back door, it will be heartbreaking, all that kind of stuff, but you will be able to exhale knowing I could. I tried to control what I could control, and I left everything on the table in the spirit of reconnecting and reimagining our marriage. And sometimes that's the best we can do. Frustratingly, that's the only way it works if you want to rebuild something. And both of you go all in. Thanks for the call. We come back, we talk to a man who is wrestling with the aftermath of donating an organization. We'll be right back. This show is sponsored by Better help. More and more people are becoming aware of the need to take care of themselves, whether it's finally taking action with their physical health, finally getting some friends to do life with, or finally getting the courage to seek professional mental health support. But when it comes to seeing a therapist, over a quarter of the people surveyed say they avoid getting therapy due to a fear of judgment. And I understand this. I have felt that same judgment before when I finally tried to get up the courage to get help. When people won't get help, it doesn't just affect them, it impacts their families, it impacts workplaces, it impacts their entire communities. The world is better when people are healthy and whole. And if I can be selfish on your behalf for a minute, the world is better when you are healthy and whole. So if you're thinking about trying therapy, contact my friends at BetterHelp. BetterHelp is 100% online therapy and it's affordable and convenient for your schedule. They have a network of more than 30,000 licensed therapists with a wide range of specialties. BetterHelp has over 10 years of experience matching people with just the right therapist for them. So to get started, you just get online and fill out a short survey and they'll match you with a licensed therapist. And if it's not the right fit, you can switch therapists at any time, easily, for no extra cost. Listen, we're all better with help. Visit betterhelp.com DeLoney to get 10 off your first month. That's BetterHelp. H E L P.com DeLoney out to Seattle. Let's talk to team Edward. What's up, Edward?

[Edward]

Hey, good afternoon, Dr. John.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Good afternoon to you, brother. What's up, man?

[Edward]

So I am trying. It's been one year since I did a benevolent donation of my left kidney.

[Dr. John Deloney]

No way, dude. What was that like?

[Edward]

It was a pretty amazing process. Look back. Of all the decisions I've made in life. It was an amazing decision and just a decision. I was so very much at peace with a lot of thought and consideration. The process to donate your kidney takes so much time from the medical, the psychological and everything.

[Dr. John Deloney]

So was this for a family member or a total stranger?

[Edward]

No, it was a total stranger. So benevolent donation. And that's what's prompting my call today is trying to get closure on that because we've now hit the one year mark and I've never heard from the recipient which has kind of created to me, it feels like that book and you get to the last chapter and you find the pages are missing. So I'M having a tough time kind of reconciling that I've never heard from that person.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Do you know who it is?

[Edward]

I don't. So the way the process works is when you go through the process, it took almost a year to kind of go through and be selected as a benevolent donor. I went in March of last year. The recipient was just an operating room away. So they took my left kidney from me and then went over to my recipient there. And I anticipated that sometime within the first year, probably one of three outcomes would happen. One is all of these communication is handled through the hospital that they would reach out and there'd be kind of, you know, some connection, get to know the person and be able to kind of see the benefit of the donation and really make that connection. Or I figured there would just be kind of an anonymous note, which I get. If somebody received a kidney, they may just want to keep that degree of separation, but at least just something that helps for me bring closure. What was the benefit of receiving it? Oftentimes I'll hear, I have colleagues who've donated kidneys and the dialysis that their spouse didn't have to go to, for example, and just how a living kidney donation really benefited their life. The outcome that I wasn't expecting, although they prepare you for, is that you just hear nothing. And that's the piece I'm struggling with. Um, is I just anticipated some closure, maybe a card that just sits in a drawer that just sort of memorializes this. But it's never happened. And I'm trying to figure out how going forward, I live with it. My story just feels just a little bit incomplete.

[Dr. John Deloney]

There you go. So I appreciate you being honest, man. This is. This is a. Something that I think would haunt me too, but I would not have the courage to say it out loud. I would just eat it. Right. So good on you for saying it out loud. I'm fascinated to know this question, and this is a little bit perverse. This is just me wanting to know, but it may have a relevance later on. What story have you made up about the recipient as to why they haven't contacted you?

[Edward]

That I don't know. And honestly, that's the reason I'm reaching out to you, because I'm hoping someone can put me in the place of. Of what might be going through the recipients.

[Dr. John Deloney]

I know, but you've got. You've concocted some story, right?

[Edward]

Yeah. But the story of concocted, I hope, is not accurate. I hope.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Let it rip. Let it rip. Because there's some value in speaking it out.

[Edward]

Yeah, I don't want to believe that they just took it for granted, that they just treated it like, you know, we go to the blood bank and we give, give blood and we get our free cookies and that's just more transactional. I would hope that they just don't take it for granted. And I have heard through kind of post follow up there obviously kind of rigid follow up once you give a donation. I would hope that they're not taking it for granted, but that is my concern that they just feel as if they've kind of received this gift and that there's. That they've given no thought to what it's like to be on the other side of that ledger of being the person who donated. And that's my concern is, gosh, did I give my kidney to someone who is just indifferent to the gift? And I want to be clear, I'm not looking for the keys to the city credit or anything. An anonymous note would more satisfy it. But it just feels like I have 7/8 of a story and that's going to be the story that sticks with me. So when people ask what was it like to donate? I've had a chance to speak a bit about what it's like to be a living benevolent donor, but I just feel like that story is just not totally complete and that may be something I have to hang on with for the rest of my life.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Well, I think the challenge for you is you are expecting external validation for an internal narrative. And I think this is instructive for the way most of us live our lives. We do the dishes so our spouse will pat us on the back. We get straight A's so our dad will give us that one little wink maybe. And what I found is in my own life and in the lives of countless other people I've sat with is the people who win are the ones that complete that narrative internally. Because what you've done is you created a story. Essentially there was some sort of altruistic 401k at play here. I want to do this. And the ROI on this investment will at least be a card I can put in the drawer. And I'd love for you, yes, dude, I want that for you. I would expect that. Like if I mow my neighbor's yard, at least wanted to say thank you. At least wave, put a little smiley face card under like a little note under my. Under my windshield wiper, you know what I'm saying? But I've got to do on the front end. It's going to be up to me to say this act of service is in and of itself a complete circle.

[Edward]

Yes. And I think to your point, mowing the lawn or something. Again, it's one of the reasons benevolent and the hospital has a program where you can initiate contact afterwards. So if I wanted to initiate, I could.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Why haven't you?

[Edward]

I don't feel right about that.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Why?

[Edward]

I guess there's a feeling that I'm not looking for credit.

[Dr. John Deloney]

But you are.

[Edward]

I'm looking, I think for closure.

[Dr. John Deloney]

I know that's just a sophisticated matter of semantics. You want someone to give you a hug and high five you and you're not wrong for that. And you want somebody to say, hey, you gave me life, you gave me an organ from your body. That's not wrong for you to want that. Why do you think. Why are you avoidant of that sort of recognition?

[Edward]

Well, I wouldn't say it's the recognition per se. What I want to see is what. What good came from the donation.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Here's here, let me tell you, here's the good that came from that donation.

[Edward]

Yeah.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Edward got to look in the mirror and say I'm going to put myself at risk for the greater good. Period. Story is over. Because if this person is in jail, I still think you did an amazing thing. If this person has passed away, they got this kidney, they lived another four, four, four months, they went to cardiac arrest, they never came out of the hospital. What you did was an amazing thing. If you're looking. I mean this is. We can, we can. I mean you've probably heard the old trolly ology. If you haven't, it's a fun. You can go down a Google rabbit hole with trolliology out of philosophy classes. But are we doing stuff because there's good in and of itself, Are we doing things only if is the value of the thing we did only in the end result.

[Edward]

Yeah. And I would say it's the end result. Even if for me it's anonymized. So my day to day work, I'm a police officer and so I share that because as cops we tend to be very evidence based. Right. We look at whatever the circumstance, we sort of. We distill it down to those, those facts that we can articulate and very outcome based. I think it's for me not being able to see the kind of the manifestation of this kidney that I donated and how it improved a circumstance. Again, even if it's anonymized, it just feels Incomplete and to your point, which so value is, how do I work through that, knowing that this may be as complete a story as I'll get? How do you work through the fact that I may never read the last pages of the book of my kidney donation?

[Dr. John Deloney]

The problem is, as an author, you've given somebody else the pen that they didn't ask for. You're still waiting for somebody to tell you you're a good man, that you did good. And I'm telling you on behalf of my little kids, you wake up every day and you may not come home. And I know that.

[Edward]

Yeah.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Because my dad has a special little box in the back of his closet because he may not come home every single day from work. You're a good man. You did an extraordinary thing. And it's ridiculous that you haven't got a note or a call or a letter. I'm with you. It's absurd. But I would rather you be frustrated and just like, ugh, than you having handed somebody a pen and hoping they'll close, like, write the final chapter of your story. You're the only author of your story, man. And I think. I can't think of a more powerful speaker at a. At a benevolent donor conference to say, I had to look in the mirror, y' all. So if y' all are doing this for. Because you think there's going to be a great Instagram reel and a fun story that's going to end up on CBS News when it's over. My person has never called me, and I wouldn't change a thing.

[Edward]

Yeah. And that's absolutely true. And my ideal outcome would be just. Just sort of seeing the manifestation of the gift. Not even credit. That's not at all what I'm looking for. Just looking to. As I look at colleagues who have not done the benevolent donation, and they can speak to, hey, here's how this changed. Our family, allowed us to travel us to do these things. And knowing that their gift had some purpose, and I think that's my concern, is the potential compromise of my future health. Obviously, from two kidneys to one. I look at these things. I say, gosh, was it, at the end of the day, a decision I would absolutely remake? Absolutely at peace with it, but not knowing, I guess, how it changed or what benefit it brought. Someone is the piece I'm struggling with. And I appreciate that this may be.

[Dr. John Deloney]

You'll never get it. You'll never get it.

[Edward]

I'll never get it. And so it's. How do I work to reconcile that and Maybe it's just that reality of. It's just one of those things that won't get reconciled. It's the account that won't balance.

[Dr. John Deloney]

I want you by yourself, go into your office, at your house, and I want you to write this person an imaginary letter. I write them a real letter. But you're not going to send it.

[Edward]

Okay.

[Dr. John Deloney]

And I want in your mind, I want you to decide whether it's a 19 year old male, a 48 year old grandmother, a 79 year old like you get to pick the picture and write him or her a letter and say here's what I hope for your life. And then you can put that letter in your drawer, you can put that letter in the garbage, you can shred it, you can put it in the fire pit. But I want you to stop carrying around this open loop. It's, it's driving you into the ground. You did an amazing thing. This person may be deceased. This person may have some intellectual challenges. This person may be deployed. We don't know. And so any story we make up about this person is a burden to us, not them. And you are. Oh, you are right and good and great to be frustrated and angry and sad. Those feelings don't make you a good person. They make, I mean a bad person. They make you human.

[Edward]

Yeah. And I think I feel a measure of guilt for sort of having those, those feelings because we do the benevolent donation and I feel as if you do this and I would absolutely do it again. And so there is that measure of guilt wanting that just, just a sentence.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Of let me let you free from guilt.

[Edward]

Yeah. And I think that that's the thing. It's feeling badly that I even be free from, even want this, this closure.

[Dr. John Deloney]

I want it for you. And I don't feel guilty at all. People should say thank you. One of my, it makes my wife die laughing. One of like I'm the I, I, I'm. I'm over emotional and just kind of goofbally. But I, I'm. When things get bananas, I get really still. One of the things that makes me comically enraged is when I'm driving in an urban area and somebody walks across the, the crosswalk and they don't wave. I get so irrationally mad when someone won't just nod and wave and say thank you for not running me over. I don't know why that makes me so mad. It just feels like the most, the lowest level of common human decency is to look somebody in the eye and wave to them. So dude, when it comes you gave somebody an organ, I am indignant on your behalf. The challenge is what am I going to do next? That. What does that indignation bringing me nothing but misery. What does not processing my feelings, bringing me nothing but a low level hum of this thymia of depression. Just. I'm slowly just. I'm becoming trapped in my own. Why not? Where is it? Who is it? What is it? Why didn't they do it? I bet it's because they don't even care. What if they're even doing drugs? What if they're so. And then I'm just making up stories that impact me, not them. I did a good thing. You did a good thing. And you did the right thing. And if we're only. If we're only doing the right things in the world because we want some ROI on them, we're gonna have an exhausted life. If we only do good things in the world and we only judge the value of the things of our actions by. Not that we'd made the best call with the information we had. We did it because it was just the right thing. But what was the end result? Man, that's an exhausting life. And dude, that's a philosophical debate as old as time. Yeah, you did a good thing, brother. You did a good thing. Write that letter tonight to that imaginary person. And if you really want to know, reach out. Just say, I want to check in. How are you? But at this point, you're choosing not to have contact. That's a choice you're making. And you're choosing not to close the loop. That's a choice you're making. The move from here is yours. I'm grateful that men like you are in my community. Appreciate you, brother. All right, let's talk about Cozy Earth. Y' all have heard me say I love sleeping in a cold, cold room. And my wife would love to sleep under one of those Taquito lamps at a baseball stadium. She loves sleeping when the room is so hot. And this is one of the many reasons why we both love our Cozy Earth sheets. They help each of us sleep at the perfect temperature. I don't know how they do it, some kind of voodoo, Hogwarts kind of stuff. But they figured it out. And they're soft and they're breathable. And these sheets keep me and my wife comfortable all night long. And because I want all of you to sleep great every night, you should all know that sheets are not created equal. They're like everything else. There's a range of quality from terrible sheets that feel like sleeping on an old paper towel to amazing sheets that make getting into bed feel amazing. Cozy Earth sheets are amazing. They craft their sheets out of viscose from bamboo. And these are special fabrics and fibers that are amazing at regulating temperature and wicking moisture away while you sleep. You just have to experience how soft their sheets are to fully understand the difference. Plus, Cozy Earth goes to great lengths to verify that their materials are responsibly sourced so you can feel good about how you sleep and about how your sheets are made. And remember, Cozy Earth Spring into comfort sale is happening right now with exclusive savings for you watching or listening to the show. 40% off everything. That's 40% off. Visit cozyearth.com deloney and use code Deloney right now. That's C o z y cozyearth.com DeLoney all right, Kelly, that first call, dude, you have a 19 year old son. Now, I know it's a little bit different. It'd be like him dating a 78 year old. But like, imagine your son is dating an old, old lady that's your age. I can't wrap my head around it.

[Kelly]

No, I'm not that old. First of all, I am older than this woman, but a lot. Anyway, I, but the thought even of regardless if she's close to my age or not, but of my 19 year old bringing home a 37 year old, 37 year old woman, I, I, I spent most of the call just like trying to crawl back in my own skin because I can't.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Okay. My son's 15, so there's a legality thing there. But I'm trying to imagine him. What is that? TW that's 33.

[Kelly]

Yeah. Cuz four years difference. Yeah, it's, I can't even, I can't no, no.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Wow.

[Kelly]

I would, I would be in jail. Let's just probably say that I would probably.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Again, Again, you've been in jail a few times before and you're like, I'm going back to jail.

[Kelly]

Teardrop tattoo.

[Dr. John Deloney]

You do have teardrop tattoos.

[Kelly]

I would, yeah, I, I can't even fathom how I would handle that.

[Dr. John Deloney]

But again, and here's like, just for a second for everybody listening, because here's the stuff going through my head. This is dicey. Because if you don't want them two together, I can get the narrative I need to keep him as close as possible to me. And if I say, hey, you can't live here and be in this relationship, he's gonna go to her house. I might I might facilitate them their closeness. Right. And so I get, I get being nervous all around. I don't know. The whole thing's just a messy situation.

[Kelly]

Oh, I don't like it. My heart goes out to her because I can't even fathom how I would deal with that. Not well, probably.

[Dr. John Deloney]

I was about to say, like, it wouldn't be. It wouldn't be super good.

[Kelly]

No, no, not at all.

[Dr. John Deloney]

You would just see Kelly's supernova from space. Just. Yeah.

[Kelly]

All right. Should we do it? Am I the problem?

[Dr. John Deloney]

We should.

[Kelly]

All right. This is from Molly and she writes, we are very involved at our church and I lead one of the ministries. So we regularly use our church's childcare for events throughout the week. Our 15 month old son recently moved from the nursery to the toddler room which has a TV screen that is used to play music videos and Bible stories for up to two and a half hours at a time. My husband and I have decided to adopt a screen free approach at our home given his young age, which is in line with the American Academy of Pediatric guidelines. I approached the church staff with the concerns regarding the use of TV for such young children, and I was told that the volunteers use it to help pacify the children who are experiencing separation anxiety and to keep them under control. I offered several alternatives and compromises to reduce screen use, all of which were dismissed and I was encouraged to let it go because screens are a normal part of our society. Am I the problem for being upset?

[Dr. John Deloney]

Oh, this is going to be a controversial one. I think she's the problem because she's going into someone else's house and demanding they live. It's like, it's like if you're gluten free or you have a, like a, well, peanut allergy, you'll die. So I get that one. But if you're, if you're vegetarian and you go to somebody's barbecue and you throw a fit and start lecturing them on how, why what they're eating is wrong and they shouldn't be, you're the problem. Same as if I show up at my friend's house. I've got some friends that are just staunch vegetarians and I throw a fit like, where's the meat? Like this. That's me. I'm a jerk there. I'm the problem. I don't think this woman's a jerk. I think she's a right. I think there should be more adult contact with kids in these settings and not just one person per 30 kids dropped in front of screens. Totally agree with her. I agree with the American Pediatric association and I don't think I've ever said that sentence on this particular thing. I'm all in. And what she's wanting is to go in and dictate how these other people with different values are going to do life. And she's allowed to have her feelings hurt. She's allowed to be frustrated. She's allowed to say hey, we may have to find a new church, we may have to find new child care. Man, that's, that stinks. But yeah, she, I don't know. I, I mean, yeah, it's the, the onus of what comes next is on her and she's allowed to have her feelings hurt and she's got to go find a different child care if that's what, if that's a priority for her. That sound right?

[Kelly]

Exactly. She can make the choice whether or not her child goes to that child care and if she doesn't like the way they do it, she and go.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Yeah, yeah.

[Kelly]

Near, near, near, near.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Look at you coming around. Look at you coming around. Yeah, I wish kids. Well, I won't say that. I say that too much. Nope. I'll say it again. I saw a stat this morning. 40% 4 0. 40% of 2 year olds have an iPad. Why is the world falling apart? I don't know. Jeez. Love you guys. Bye. Wait, wait. Don't go anywhere. I've got huge news. We just added new dates for money and marriage getaway over Valentine's day weekend in 2020. This is the chance for you and your spouse to leave the nutty bonkers schedules behind and take time to focus on your marriage. I'll be hosting with my friend Rachel Cruz and we're digging into topics that really matter to every healthy marriage like sex and intimacy, growing your communication, connecting, how to fight and more. Join us 2-12-14th in beautiful Nashville, Tennessee for an incredible weekend to build a stronger, more intimate marriage. Early bird pricing starts at 749 bucks per couple for the whole weekend. But the prices will be going up soon. Get [e-mail] events. That's ramseysolutions.com events.