My Wife Had an Affair With My Cousin

Summary

Podcast Summary: The Dr. John Delony Show – "My Wife Had an Affair With My Cousin"

Introduction In the August 4, 2025 episode of The Dr. John Delony Show, hosted by the Ramsey Network, Dr. John Delony delves deep into complex relationship and mental health challenges faced by his callers. The episode titled "My Wife Had an Affair With My Cousin" presents a poignant and raw conversation with Robert from Gainesville, Florida, alongside discussions with other callers grappling with their own personal struggles.

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Main Story: Robert's Heartbreaking Revelation

Timestamp: [00:05] – [18:54]

Robert's Situation Robert initiates the conversation by recounting a series of devastating events that have unfolded in his life over the past year. Beginning with a severe medical scare due to kidney stones that led to a sepsis-induced staph infection, Robert's health took a downward spiral, resulting in a prolonged hospital stay and the placement of an IV drip line.

Notable Quote:

• Robert [00:05]: "My wife asked for a break and, you know, obviously I. I wasn't too excited about that. Then I found her with a family member of mine."

Following his hospitalization, Robert discovers that his wife has been unfaithful—not with a stranger, but with his cousin. This revelation comes thick on the heels of his health crisis, amplifying his emotional turmoil. Their three-year-old daughter is now at the center of a custody arrangement, with equal custody between Robert and his ex-wife, who has since moved in with the cousin and recently had a child almost a year after the affair was uncovered.

Notable Quote:

• Robert [05:04]: "So it's not a. Technically not a blood cousin. You know, someone. I've known their family my whole life, so like not actual blood but you know, considered family."

Emotional and Mental Health Struggles Feeling unmoored, Robert expresses a sense of floating through life without direction or motivation, especially on days he's not with his daughter. His mental health takes a hit as he grapples with betrayal, despair, and the challenge of moving forward after such profound personal losses.

Notable Quote:

• Robert [05:27]: "When all that went down, my. I was working for a company for 12 years, kind of that was not looking great company wide. Not just because of what I had going on. So I moved to a different company. It's been decent here, but I just kind of feel like, you know, I'm just kind of floating in the wind."

Dr. Delony's Guidance Dr. Delony empathetically acknowledges Robert's pain, highlighting the compounded stress of health issues and marital betrayal. He emphasizes the importance of accepting grief and not suppressing emotions, encouraging Robert to actively engage in his healing process rather than avoiding it.

Notable Quote:

• John Deloney [06:15]: "I don't like to be gone from my son or my daughter for three days, much less just know, oh, this is the rest of my childhood, right?"

Actionable Steps for Healing Dr. Delony challenges Robert to take proactive measures to rebuild his life. He advises forming a support group, committing to regular physical exercise, reassessing his career satisfaction, and defining clear personal goals. Emphasizing accountability and self-care, Dr. Delony provides Robert with resources, including financial guidance and mental health tools, to help him regain stability and purpose.

Notable Quote:

• John Deloney [08:54]: "What's your next move?"
• Robert [10:21]: "I mean, I want to show up for my daughter. You know, in the best possible way that I can, and want to get to the point, you know, where I'm comfortable being me."

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Sophia's Journey: Overcoming Childhood Trauma

Timestamp: [21:48] – [38:00]

Sophia's Struggles Sophia from Atlanta, Georgia, shares her battle with deep-seated trauma stemming from childhood abuse by a church leader. Despite extensive personal work, including therapy and achieving stability, recent events have retraumatized her, leading to emotional shutdowns when seeking support from friends and her church community.

Notable Quote:

• Sophia [23:15]: "I really did a lot of work on all of that and got to a point where I was really, really stable. And, like, I even got to where my therapist was like, I don't think you really need therapy anymore, and was like, hey, I don't think so either."

Dr. Delony's Response Dr. Delony acknowledges the severity of Sophia's past abuses and the impact they've had on her ability to trust and seek support. He commends her for her resilience and the progress she's made, while also addressing the resurgence of her trauma and the importance of not allowing past pain to dictate her current relationships.

Notable Quote:

• John Deloney [25:16]: "Healing means you can think about your mom and your body doesn't throw you back into when you were three or four or five years old and she's beating the crap out of you before school."

Strategies for Reconnection Encouraging Sophia to rebuild her support network, Dr. Delony advises her to be upfront with her friends about her triggers and the ways they can assist her during moments of emotional shutdown. He emphasizes the importance of self-worth and the need to seek professional help, such as trauma-informed therapy and bodywork, to fully process and heal from her past trauma.

Notable Quote:

• John Deloney [36:35]: "You're not a burden. You're worth having friends and you're worth reaching out to people."

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Jack's Dilemma: Supporting a Friend Facing Criminal Charges

Timestamp: [42:53] – [54:08]

Jack's Concern Jack from Minneapolis reaches out with a challenging question about whether he should continue supporting a close friend who has been implicated in criminal activities involving a minor. The friend’s actions have not only jeopardized his own life but also strained their long-term friendship.

Notable Quote:

• Jack [43:00]: "So a close friend of mine a couple months ago was caught in a sting operation for allegedly showing up to meet with a minor."

Dr. Delony's Firm Stance Dr. Delony addresses the moral and ethical implications of supporting someone accused of harming others, especially children. He underscores the importance of accountability over blind support, emphasizing that while friendship is valuable, enabling or condoning harmful actions is unacceptable.

Notable Quote:

• John Deloney [50:01]: "I'm not a believer in abandonment. If I say I'm in, I'm in. If I say you're my friend, you're my friend. But that might mean I'm coming to visit you in jail. I'm not going to make up lies with the authorities so that you can potentially go hurt another child."

Guidance for Boundaries Dr. Delony advises Jack to set clear boundaries with his friend—supporting him emotionally without overlooking or excusing his transgressions. He recommends being honest about his inability to provide certain types of support, such as writing character references, which could inadvertently aid in reducing the friend's accountability.

Notable Quote:

• John Deloney [53:00]: "I'm not gonna like condoning, you know."

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Conclusion The episode masterfully navigates through intense personal stories, offering compassionate yet firm guidance to individuals grappling with betrayal, trauma, and ethical dilemmas. Dr. John Delony provides actionable advice, emphasizing the importance of self-care, accountability, and the establishment of supportive networks to foster healing and personal growth.

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Key Takeaways:

• Facing Betrayal: Dealing with infidelity, especially when intertwined with family, requires confronting deep emotional pain and rebuilding life with intentional steps towards healing.
• Overcoming Trauma: Long-term trauma necessitates continuous self-awareness and the willingness to seek professional help to prevent past abuses from sabotaging present relationships.
• Ethical Boundaries: Supporting friends in crisis must be balanced with maintaining moral integrity, especially when their actions harm others.

Notable Resources Mentioned:

• Dave Ramsey's Book: Total Money Makeover for financial stability.
• John Delony's Book: Building a Non Anxious Life as a roadmap for personal growth.

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Disclaimer: The summaries and quotes provided are based on the transcript of the podcast episode and aim to encapsulate the essence of the discussions without personal bias.

Transcript

[Robert]

My wife asked for a break and, you know, obviously I. I wasn't too excited about that. Then I found her with a family member of mine.

[John Deloney]

Who?

[Robert]

Cousins.

[John Deloney]

Dude, cue the banjos, man. Like, is this just a big shock to you? What up? What's up? This is Jon with the doct John Deloney Show.

[Robert]

All right.

[John Deloney]

Hey, Kelly. Producer of the show, Kelly. Between this double pane glass studio that I'm in, the soundproof box, I can smell you. What is that smell?

[Kelly]

I knew you were gonna say something.

[John Deloney]

What is that? Like, it's like I can feel my eyebrows falling out. And normally you have a smell, but this is worse. What is that?

[Kelly]

I hate you.

[Sophia]

I really do.

[John Deloney]

What is it?

[Kelly]

My dog last night got full force zinged by us. Sprayed by a skunk.

[John Deloney]

Dang Gina.

[Kelly]

Yeah, it's been a long night at our house and, like, all the blood vessels in my eyes are broken. And then he ran in the house, of course.

[John Deloney]

Of course.

[Kelly]

Because he was terrified, but his whole eyes were swollen shut. It was very pitiful. But, I mean, he was dripping. It was so. And he's like, you know, 25 pound dog, so he's not a big dog. And we had to bathe him multiple times. I've showered multiple times.

[John Deloney]

You have not.

[Kelly]

I. Oh, if you only knew how.

[Sophia]

Many times I had.

[John Deloney]

And that's like your monthly quota in one night.

[Kelly]

I've done.

[John Deloney]

I'm done for the summer, man.

[Kelly]

No, and I mean, yeah, we've, you know, she taken sheets off the bed because, of course he jumped up on things because he was trying to get it off. And it's been a. It was a long night in the Daniel household.

[John Deloney]

Well, we're glad you're here. We're not actually. Actually, we are, but. Good God Almighty, it smells. Hey, if you want to be on this show talking about your mental and emotional health or your friends or your colleagues that just show up to work smelling like somebody died four and a half weeks ago and they got sprayed by us. Hey, johndalony.com ask this is probably the best intro of the show ever of all time. Let's go out to Gainesville, Florida and talk to un Roberto. What's up, Robert?

[Robert]

Good morning, Dr. John. How are you?

[John Deloney]

I'm great, brother. How are you, ma'?

[Producer]

Am?

[Robert]

I'm hanging in there.

[John Deloney]

Excellent. What's up, dude?

[Robert]

So my question is, how do I kind of move on with life and kind of use my energy in a productive way? A little backstory. Beginning of last year, I had a medical scare. I was in the hospital for a little while. Never had that before. Then shortly after that, my wife at the time asked for a break and you know, obviously I, I wasn't too excited about that. Then I found her with a family member of mine who. Cousin.

[John Deloney]

Dude, cue the banjos, man. Like, how is this a bit a big shock to you?

[Robert]

So she had had a couple of instances of infertility prior to that that I had found on her devices. Kelly swore it was nothing physical, it was just talking or exchanging pictures and stuff. So, you know, I tried to move past that beforehand. Um, but you know, got to this and this was a huge shock right after, you know, the medical scare. We have a three year old daughter so, you know, that made it.

[John Deloney]

I'm sorry, dude. Yeah, what was the medical scare?

[Robert]

Had kidney stones that I ended up going septic, get a, got a staph infection. Been a week in the hospital. Then I had a IV drip line in me for a month after that.

[John Deloney]

So you've been through it this last year, man. I'm sorry, dude.

[Robert]

Yeah, it's. It's been a rough one, that's for sure.

[John Deloney]

Who's, who's got custody of that three year old girl?

[Robert]

So we have equal custody in a 50. 50. She actually the, the ex wife now. Ex wife. Know we ended up going through all that, got the divorce last year. She has since moved in with said cousin. They actually just had a child.

[John Deloney]

On.

[Robert]

Almost the year anniversary of me finding all this out.

[John Deloney]

God, it's like a country song.

[Robert]

Yeah, a really bad one.

[John Deloney]

Yeah. So your three year old daughter is going to be half sisters or half brothers with her or half sisters with her cousin too.

[Robert]

So it's not a. Technically not a blood cousin. You know, someone. I've known their family my whole life, so like not actual blood but you know, considered family.

[John Deloney]

Jeez, I'm sorry, man. All right, so how can I help? Dude, what a mess.

[Robert]

So I'm just kind of, I don't know, feel like I'm floating through the wind.

[Producer]

Yeah.

[Robert]

When all that went down, my. I was working for a company for 12 years, kind of that was not looking great company wide. Not just because of what I had going on. So I moved to a different company. It's been decent here, but I just kind of feel like, you know, I'm just kind of floating in the wind. The days that I don't have my daughter, you know, are obviously really hard. It's really hard to like find motivation to, to get up and like do much of anything.

[Sophia]

Yeah, yeah.

[John Deloney]

You know, I. I don't. I can't wrap my head around that. The pain you've experienced. Well, I mean, just like to put it down on a piece of paper.

[Producer]

Like.

[John Deloney]

You'Re faced with this shock, right? Like that your body's failing you, right? And there's that sense of being betrayed by your own body, especially in a tough time. And most people don't realize that can happen, like, over a weekend until it happens over a weekend, right? That you have a pain. All of a sudden that pain is real bad. And then you got kidney stones, and all of a sudden you find yourself, geez, a pick line, and you're. That's a nightmare. And then on top of forgiveness and your wife betraying, here's the thing. You knew for a while and you ignored your own gut for whatever reason, and see that come true is devastating. And then that. I. I wouldn't wish. I've said this before on the show. I. I don't like to be gone from my son or my daughter for three days, much less just know, oh, this is the rest of my childhood, right? I mean, the rest of her childhood is I get week on, week off, and then the extra kick in the teeth is, oh, cool, she just moved in with a family member and had a kid with him, which just a slap in the face on top of a slap in the face, man. So let me just say this. Your body's right to just want to get under the covers and not get out.

[Producer]

Okay?

[John Deloney]

And I know there's a sense of on top of the shame, on top of the, I should have listened to my gut. On top of all that stuff, there's this sense that your body's not working right. And I might be the only mental health professional that would tell you, no, your body's working perfectly. This idea that you just want to. Your body just feels like, I don't want to curl up and I want to stay on the couch under a blanket, not want to move. I just want to be here.

[Producer]

That.

[John Deloney]

That feeling is right. We're not going to live there. But I want you to know that that sense makes sense to me.

[Producer]

Okay?

[John Deloney]

The big question I want to ask you is, like, you're at a fork in the road, and there's a lot of grieving and a lot of being sad and a lot of being heartbroken. Have you. Have you rolled over into. Into anger and rage yet? Are you not there yet?

[Robert]

That hit me in the beginning pretty hard. I think I've. I've calmed down with it. On the anger side, I did do some therapy there for a while, but it got to be too expensive.

[Producer]

Okay.

[Robert]

But, yeah, I think it's. I guess where I'm at is, like, I don't. I don't know if I've, like, fully accepted the reality of everything that went down and how I let it get to that point.

[Producer]

You. You.

[John Deloney]

You won't for a while. It will. It will wave over you like. Like sitting at the beach, and it'll be fine. It'll be fine. And then a big wave will hit you one day, and that's just part of this grieving process that you're going to go through. And I'm going to challenge you to not put your head in the sand and. And just let it happen like you've done with your marriage, like you've probably done with other things in your life. And I think this is a moment when I want to challenge you. Just stand up on two feet and accept and take some of this. Take the waves hitting you, because that's part of the grieving process. Or, let me say it another way, it will emerge in your life again. And the more you face it now and the more you have a plan to do something and you just let yourself be sad one day, and the more you fight and scratch and claw, and maybe you don't go every week to see a counselor, but you go once every two weeks or you join a group of divorced dads, which is embarrassing and shameful and all that. The more you do that now, the better chance you have of getting your feet underneath you and heading into. What is the next part of your life. How old are you?

[Robert]

28.

[John Deloney]

28? Yeah. Dude, you're still. I mean, you're barely starting the second quarter of. Of the game. That's your life. You know what I mean? You got a long road ahead of you. So here's the. Here's the question I got for you. This is a scary question. What do you want to do next?

[Robert]

I mean, I want to show up for my daughter.

[Producer]

Okay.

[Robert]

You know, in the best possible way that I can, and want to get to the point, you know, where I'm comfortable being me, you know, being. Being alone with me.

[Producer]

Okay.

[Robert]

Again.

[John Deloney]

So here's the. Here's the heartbreaking challenge that's ahead of you that I think you are 1000% capable of is the way to show up for your daughter is to begin to keep your promises to yourself. And the way to keep your promises to yourself is to a. Get a group around you Cannot do this by yourself. Grief demands a witness, as Kessler says, You got to have a group of people that. A group of guys that you can call, you can text, that on a regular basis, you sit with. And that can be a group that can be a couple of buddies who just show up at your house on the weeks. On the alternate weeks when your kid's gone, and you just say, I'm going to do grilling night. And they show up on Wednesday nights, and y' all grill out and have a beer and laugh or watch old Will Frell video. But you got a group of guys with you. And I'm not saying it has to be Kumbaya. You don't have to sit in the circle and sing songs and hold hands. That's not what I'm talking about. But it's this sense of. I'm going to not. Not intellectualize this. I am going to prove to my body through repetition that I'm worth having friends and I'm worth people being around. And then you're going to have to make some choices about I. On the days I don't want to, especially on the weeks off, I'm gonna get up and I'm gonna go work out. And I'm not gonna do four hours one day and then be so sore I can't move the rest of the week. But I'm gonna go do 30 minutes. And that might be as simple as getting a backpack and putting some weights in it and just going for a walk for 30 minutes. If you're. If you're not an exercise guy, that might mean going to a local gym. That might mean any number of things, getting some dumbbells and working out in your garage, but doing something that is going to help your physical body, okay? And then I want you to be honest about your job. If you hate your job, this is an amazing moment in history when at 28, and you have every other week with. Without childhood responsibilities, without kid responsibilities, that you can get another degree, you can get retrained, you can go practice. You get what I'm saying? You can begin to say, okay, for the first time in my freaking life, what do I want to do? And here's the thing. A dad who has taken ownership of his physical body. And I'm not saying, like, snap into a Slim Jim. That's not. I'm talking about drink a lot of protein. Not that. But a dad who is taking care of himself, a dad who's got other male friends that he does things with, a dad who's Got a spiritual life in order. A dad who professionally is leaning towards the person he wants to be. Who do you want to help in the world? And then I'm going to go pursue that. That's a dad that's going to show up for his daughter. Otherwise, here's what's going to happen. You're going to chase around a three year old who becomes a seven year old, who becomes a 14 year old. And you're going to think showing up for her is just doing whatever she wants you to do on the few days a week every month you have her. And that's a recipe for you yet again, not following your gut and showing up and just trying to be whoever the person in front of you wants you to be instead of your daughter getting to anchor into a grown man, which is the greatest gift you can give her. So what's your next move?

[Robert]

Well, I think I need to set myself up to follow through.

[Producer]

Okay.

[John Deloney]

Can I ask you a couple of just basic entry questions?

[Sophia]

Sure.

[John Deloney]

How much money do you owe? Like if you took all your credit cards and your car payment and all that stuff and you just wrote it down about how much do you owe? Student loans, all that.

[Robert]

Including the house?

[John Deloney]

Nope, not including the house.

[Robert]

Okay. All the other stuff, probably around 60,000.

[Producer]

Okay.

[John Deloney]

How much do you owe in your house?

[Robert]

110.

[John Deloney]

How much is it worth?

[Robert]

220, probably.

[Producer]

Okay.

[John Deloney]

Did your wife sign it over to you?

[Sophia]

Yeah.

[Producer]

Okay.

[John Deloney]

How much do you make in your job?

[Robert]

With the, the new job I have now, probably around 55 a year.

[Producer]

Okay.

[John Deloney]

I want to challenge you on two things. I want you to work maniacally like a lunatic, to not owe anybody anything.

[Producer]

Okay.

[John Deloney]

And I almost never recommend this, but you might consider selling your house and moving to an apartment. That house has ghosts in it anyway.

[Robert]

And look, I thought about that.

[John Deloney]

Pay off everything you own and commit. Nobody will ever own me again, both emotionally or financially. And then you make 55 a year. I want you to have an 18 month goal to at least be at 75, but preferably double it. And I know people are listening like you don't even understand. I do understand.

[Robert]

Yeah. I'm on the cusp of a promotion where I work, so hoping. Hoping that's going to.

[John Deloney]

But here's what. Yeah, we're done hoping.

[Producer]

Okay.

[John Deloney]

Hope is an action. Actually, we're not done hoping. We're done wishing. Hope is an action. And here's what I promise you. If you position yourself where you don't owe anybody any money, you waltz into work Differently. When you're at the gym every morning, even if you're only there for a little bit, you walk into work differently, you talk to customers differently. And it's that little bitty edge that your boss says, that's my guy. And it's not a, I hope I get this promotion, because then it's going to change. It's not. It's just going to swell up and then your wife's going to say, hey, you got that new job, Daughter needs shoes. And you'll be like, okay, I'll get four pair. And then you're just going to be chasing your tail again. But if you put some stakes in the ground, I'm a man who does not owe anybody any money because that's my new identity. I'm a guy who takes care of myself because that's what my daughter deserves and that's what I deserve. I'm a guy who's going to go back to a church. I don't care which one to go to, anyone. Because I'm a man who takes a knee before something bigger than me. And if you hear my voice getting like, I'm. I'm passionate about this. About men who have been told their whole lives that if you wiggle in class, something's wrong with your brain. And if your wife leaves you for your cousin, that somehow you're a loser and you're shameful. I'm sick of all that stuff. But I want you to stand up for the first time and say, I'm 28 years old. My name is Robert from Florida, and it's game on day one. But I can't want this more than you do.

[Robert]

I want it.

[John Deloney]

Okay, then here's. I'm going to hook you up with. Okay, I'm going to hook you up with several things. I'm going to hook you up with my buddy Dave Ramsey's book, Total Money Makeover. I want you to follow that thing, okay? Don't deviate from it. The second thing is I'm going to send you my book, Building a Non Anxious Life. I want that to be your roadmap for your life.

[Producer]

Okay?

[Robert]

Okay.

[John Deloney]

The third thing is I'm going to send you an app. I'm going to send you the Every Dollar app, the premium version you can link with your bank, and you're going to have a budget for the first time in your freaking life, and you're not going to deviate from it.

[Producer]

Okay?

[Robert]

Okay.

[John Deloney]

And I want you to consider asap, we're in the hot market season right now consider putting your house on the market. Get yourself a really sweet two bedroom apartment. Pay off everything you owe, take the other 40,000 bucks that you're going to pocket and put it in an emergency fund. And now you're your own bank. Nobody owns Robert. You got it?

[Robert]

I do.

[John Deloney]

And then I'm going to hook you up with a few months free with my friends at Train well and they're going to. I'm going to give you. It's going to be an app and a personal trainer. And I want you to start exercising today.

[Producer]

Okay?

[Robert]

Okay.

[John Deloney]

Awesome. Game on.

[Robert]

Game on.

[John Deloney]

Day one. Here's the deal. You got to call me back in 90 days. I want to hear where you're at.

[Robert]

Okay?

[John Deloney]

Here's my hope for you. In 90 days, you don't owe anybody anything. You got 30, I mean, 90 days of exercise and you're down 10 pounds. And you got this promotion and now we're moving. And now your daughter's going to walk into the house and feel because the life she lives at the other house is chaotic and kinetic. And she's not going to get that at dad's house. She's going to get something at your house that, that every kid in the world is desperate for and very few kids have anymore. And that is peace. Day one, brother. Game on. You call me anytime, man, but I want to hear from you in 90 days and see where you're at. We come back, a woman wonders how to ask for help after being let down. We are coming to the end of summer and things are booming bonkers. I got in my truck this morning and I was flying to work because I was a little bit late like always. And on the way, I made sure I put on my Hallow app. It's the number one prayer and meditation app in the world. And I've gotten to where I listen to it on the way to work every single day. And if you're like me, we're all juggling work, family, and a million other things. We're closing down the summer, getting ready for school already, plus all the geopolitical wildness. And in this chaos, we often forget to pause and reflect. Creating peace in our life doesn't just happen. We have to choose it. We have to make space for it. And that is where Hallow comes in. Hallow provides you amazing opportunities to slow down and reconnect with what matters most. One of the best features on Hallow is the daily reflections with Jeff Cavins. Because he helps you connect scripture to real life joys and Real life challenges or if you're struggling with anxiety or just feeling overwhelmed by everything. Hallow offers mental health meditations and prayers that I have found useful. From healing emotional wounds to establishing healthy habits, these guided prayers give you words of comfort and longing when you're all out of things to say. If you're ready to find some peace in the chaos and some purpose in your day, check out Hallow right now. When you sign [e-mail] Deloney, you get three months for free. That's Hallow. H A l l o w.com Deloney for three months for free. All right, before we go to Atlanta, Georgia, take two seconds, please, please, please, and hit the subscribe button. If you're watching this on YouTube or on podcast. If you just take a second, whether you're on Spotify, Apple, wherever you're consuming the show, please just hit the subscribe button. Or if you want to be a real gangster, just leave a five star review. It just kicks the show up into different algorithms. The show is growing at a pace that is hard to even wrap our heads around, and that's because you're listening, you're sharing it with your friends. But if you'll take a second to just let our Internet overlords know that you're listening, it makes such a huge difference. All right, Atlanta, Georgia, let's talk to Sophia. What's up, Sophia?

[Sophia]

Hi. How are you?

[John Deloney]

How are you, love? How are we doing?

[Sophia]

I'm doing okay.

[John Deloney]

Awesome. What's up?

[Sophia]

So my question is, how do I open up to my friends when I'm struggling? Because I've had times in the past where I've reached out and not gotten that support. And I have a really hard time kind of moving past that when I'm like in a crisis moment. And this last year has been really hard.

[John Deloney]

Hold on, hold on, hold on, hold on, hold on. Do me a favor. Take a huge deep breath. As deep as you can. Hold it. Three, two.

[Sophia]

Sorry.

[John Deloney]

Don't stop. You're apologizing just for breathing. Don't. Hold on. No, no, we're not there yet. Hold on. You're good.

[Producer]

Okay.

[Sophia]

Okay.

[John Deloney]

And maybe nobody has ever let you just breathe before, but you're called me. You're allowed to breathe.

[Producer]

Okay?

[John Deloney]

No, apologize.

[Sophia]

Okay.

[John Deloney]

I don't want you to apologize for your existence.

[Sophia]

Okay.

[John Deloney]

Okay. All right. So you've reached out to friends before when you need some help and some support, and they haven't been there for you. Tell me about that.

[Sophia]

Yeah, and they, like. Well, they told me I There was a couple times that I did reach out, and they told me that, like, they knew I wasn't okay, but they feel like when I'm not okay and we try to talk about it, they have to kind of pull the answer out of me, and it makes them not want to reach out.

[Producer]

Okay.

[Sophia]

And I like, their. Right.

[John Deloney]

Are they correct?

[Sophia]

Yeah. No, they're right. Like, I kind of do this, like, shutdown thing.

[Producer]

Okay.

[Sophia]

And, like, I know where it comes from. It just. I don't know how to get past doing that.

[John Deloney]

All right, let me ask you. Let me. I'm interrupting you on purpose because I want to break this train of thought, because you have a roller coaster that you get on, and that sucker just heads down the track, and you feel out of control. So I want to stop it. And by doing this, I know people on the Internet are like, you always interrupt. Sometimes I do it strategically, just like this, because I want to prove to you that you can stop the train, too.

[Producer]

Okay.

[Sophia]

Yeah.

[John Deloney]

So what does. And this is a strange question. What does shutting down? What does that get you? It gets you something. It's your body trying to help you out. What does it get you?

[Sophia]

It feels safe.

[John Deloney]

All right, tell me about that.

[Sophia]

When I was a kid, I had, like. I've kind of been through an insane amount of trauma, like, just a ridiculous amount. And when I was a kid, I started having, like, behavioral issues because of it. And so what my parents did, they suspected there was some, like, abuse going on, but instead of, like, helping me with it, anytime I got emotional, I would, like, get hit. And then my mom realized that if it was a day where I was going to have an emotional breakdown, it was easier to get it out of the way in the morning. So she's admitted this to me as an adult. She used to kind of push me to a point of breakdown and then kind of hit me till I stopped. And then the rest of the day would be a lot easier for her because I would be too checked out to have any issues.

[John Deloney]

Hold on. My God, Sophie, I'm so sorry.

[Sophia]

Yeah.

[John Deloney]

Were you being sexually abused?

[Sophia]

Yeah, by, like, a church leader. And my parents were on staff, but they weren't Christians. It was a weird dynamic. They, like. It was weird. It was a weird dynamic.

[John Deloney]

It wasn't. Hold on. It wasn't weird. It was evil and costly.

[Sophia]

Oh, yeah. It was, like, really, really messed up.

[John Deloney]

Okay. It wasn't weird.

[Sophia]

Right?

[John Deloney]

It was evil. I'm sorry.

[Sophia]

Yeah. Yeah.

[John Deloney]

No, no, no. Let's just sit here for a second. You've been blown by this your whole life. I want you to sit in it for a second. I'm sitting here with you.

[Producer]

Okay.

[Sophia]

Yeah.

[John Deloney]

I'm not the best dad in the world. I'm trying, but I'm not. But I tell you what, man, I'll burn the world down for my daughter. And that's how dads are supposed to be with their kids.

[Sophia]

Yeah.

[John Deloney]

My wife would do the same. And that's what you should have had.

[Sophia]

Yeah.

[Producer]

Okay.

[John Deloney]

I'm sorry.

[Sophia]

Thanks.

[John Deloney]

So, yeah. Yeah. Being quiet has served you well your entire life, Right?

[Sophia]

Yeah. Well. And what really is the part I'm kind of having the hardest time with is I did the work on all that stuff. Like, I kind of. So as soon as I turned 18, I went and got my driver's license and had my friend teach me to drive because my parents wouldn't let me. I walked to work until I could afford a car. I, like, got. As soon as I got an apartment, I got multiple jobs so I could afford to go to therapy. Like, I've done all the things. And I, like, really did a lot of work on all of that and got to a point where I was really, really stable. And, like, I even got to where my therapist was like, I don't think you really need therapy anymore, and was like, hey, I don't think so either. And I kind of, like, got solid. And then this year happened and I feel like I just, you know, you use the, like, bricks in the backpack analogy. I feel like I unlocked all those bricks and then I went through another thing and all of those breaks came back. And I, like, wasn't really expecting that. Like, I kind of thought, you know, I'll work through this. And like, yeah, it might come up a little bit, but I didn't expect it all to just come back so strongly.

[Producer]

Yeah.

[John Deloney]

What happened this year?

[Sophia]

So I got to a place where I was really, like, stable. Right. And so I ended up ending my relationship with my dad, like, which was really good. And. But that was still hard. Like, I still was working through that. And then two months after that. So I. When I got stable, I ended up getting involved in ministry. Met this guy who. It was like a long distance thing, but I did ministry in his area. And he was like a pillar of the community type, like church leader. And everyone trusted him, everyone vouched for him. We really hit it off, started a relationship. We ended up getting engaged. I was, like, going to move down there. It was one of those, like. Like, I was selling everything to Go and serve the poor, like, type of thing. And was, like, really excited for this whole new life. And then five months before the wedding, a kid came forward and accused him of molesting him. And, like, my whole world crashed. And I, like, the craziest part is, like, I handled it well in the moment of, like, okay. Instead of freaking out and flying off the handle, I was like, what's going on? I need to be involved in all of this. I need to know all the details. Like, I need to know from someone other than you what's going on down there. And, like, if you're innocent, then, like. Like, we can find a way to work through this. If you're not, obviously, that's like, I will go full nuclear. Right. But in the middle of, like, me trying to be rational and work through the situation, I, like, kind of poured my heart out to him and was like, this is where I'm at. And, like, we're gonna pause the wedding because, like, this comes first. Like, this needs to be dealt with, obviously, like, something's happening to this kid because of the things he's saying. And the next day, he called me and ended the relationship and told me that now that our relationship's over, I didn't need to investigate or tell anyone what was going on. So that, to me, was like, a huge. If you're innocent, why would you say that?

[John Deloney]

So can I pause you real quick again?

[Sophia]

Yeah.

[John Deloney]

I cannot tell you how proud of you I am. What you did tells me that you've done an extraordinary amount of work. And I think on the other side of quote, unquote, doing the work, there's this idea that I'm never going to get hurt again.

[Sophia]

Yeah.

[John Deloney]

Or I'm never going to feel this bad again. And that's. That's not true.

[Robert]

Right, Right.

[John Deloney]

You can get out of the hospital after, like, having your knee reconstructed, and the day you graduate from physical therapy, you can still get hit by a car again.

[Sophia]

Right, Right.

[John Deloney]

But. But listen, you got hit by a car again. You let yourself love. You let yourself go back into a church building, of all places. You let yourself be connected to a minister again. Yeah, but the moment things went sideways, all that work came into play. You stood your ground and you said, whoa, whoa, whoa, before we go, I'm not going to walk down an aisle with you. I've been down that before. Not down an aisle, but I'm not protecting anybody anymore. I care about this kid.

[Sophia]

Right.

[John Deloney]

That is an amazing amount of work you've done. I'm proud of You.

[Sophia]

Thank you.

[John Deloney]

And you have to deal with the heartbreak and you have to deal with all of the. Oh, my gosh, how did I get suckered into this again? Are all ministers like this? And by the way, they're not.

[Sophia]

But no, I know. I know.

[John Deloney]

You've got a radar for it, right?

[Sophia]

Yeah.

[John Deloney]

And so this is just f. This is just like, I'm throwing it out there. Maybe don't date ministers anymore. Right. But yeah, like, on this side of this, it's a tremendous, extraordinary example of how much work you've put in.

[Sophia]

Yeah.

[John Deloney]

Like. Like you're. You're an amazing success story because your first thought was, I'm not going to fall right back into the old pattern, which is, we protect the minister. I'm going to keep my head down. I'm going to keep my mouth shut, or I'm going to get hit.

[Sophia]

Right.

[John Deloney]

You said, no. I'm standing with this kid. And until I find out what's going on, I'm not moving forward in your life. I'm not going to be your protector. I'm not going to be your cover. I'm standing with the hurting child.

[Sophia]

Yeah.

[John Deloney]

God bless you, dude. Amazing.

[Sophia]

Thank you.

[Producer]

Okay.

[Sophia]

Yeah.

[John Deloney]

Amazing. All right. Keep going.

[Sophia]

Well, then right after that, the kid recanted and said it didn't happen and that he, like, was trying to get out of tutoring, which, I'm going to be honest, I don't know whether it happened or not. I'm not. I don't know that. Like, I know kids recant. I also know, like, false accusations do happen. I feel like I don't know what that was.

[John Deloney]

Hold on. Can I ask you a question? I'm interrupting you again.

[Sophia]

Yeah.

[John Deloney]

What does your gut tell you?

[Sophia]

I think he did it.

[John Deloney]

Okay. That's all that matters right now.

[Sophia]

Yeah, that's it.

[John Deloney]

Healing does not mean the sensitive parts of your spirit scab over forever get calloused.

[Sophia]

Yeah.

[John Deloney]

Healing means you can think about your mom and your body doesn't throw you back into when you were three or four or five years old and she's beating the crap out of you before school.

[Sophia]

Right.

[John Deloney]

That's what healing means. And the real challenge for someone who's been through the hell that you've lived through from people who had one job and that was to love their daughter, is the only way a marriage works, is for you to allow yourself the potential to be heard again by somebody.

[Sophia]

Yeah.

[John Deloney]

And you did that, and God almighty, it happened again.

[Sophia]

Right.

[John Deloney]

That doesn't mean you're broken. That doesn't mean you're unhealed. That means you were so healed up, you did the work that you can disconnect from your mom and dad because they literally are evil. And you had the courage to walk back into a church again, and that stomped on your. Stomped on your soul again. You let yourself attempt to be loved by somebody, and he stomped on your heart again. So let me reframe all of it. Dude, your body's working perfectly.

[Sophia]

Right.

[Producer]

Okay.

[John Deloney]

You're right to be really sad, and you're right to be heartbroken.

[Sophia]

Yeah.

[John Deloney]

Okay.

[Sophia]

And I think. Sorry.

[John Deloney]

No, go ahead. Go ahead. Don't be sorry. Stop saying you're sorry.

[Sophia]

Ah. Okay. I think the one part where I'm like, this is where I recognize I need to work is, like, all of that. Like, yes, that makes sense. But I have a really fantastic group of friends, and, like, they're my church family, like, and I love them to death. And they, like, they've all. They're there for me, and I have shut down with them, too. And I really don't know how to stop doing that part of it because, like. And I don't. Yeah. I just. I don't want to keep shutting down on them and then getting it to the point where, like, they don't even want to reach out because I keep shutting down, but I don't know how to get to where I can reach out. And I, like, desperately need to.

[Producer]

Okay.

[John Deloney]

You have to decide you're worth the risk again. And it may be worth calling three or four of your friends and saying, who know your story. I love you guys and I trust you guys, and I'm going to ask you that if you see me curling up in a ball, y' all have permission to reach out a hand. Listen to me very carefully.

[Producer]

Okay?

[Sophia]

Yeah.

[John Deloney]

The prevailing sense under all of this. This is a very common response. When a mom and a dad treat you like you're treated. When a spiritual advisor treats you like he treated you, you have this prevailing sense that is woven into your nervous system that you're a burden on other people.

[Sophia]

Yeah.

[John Deloney]

And you're not a burden.

[Sophia]

How do I believe that? Oh, like, how do I get.

[John Deloney]

Oh, there's one way. You have to practice. You're not going to be able to think your way to it. And let me tell you, on the other side, the greatest gift in my life is when someone I love and care about reaches out and says, hey, can I talk about. Because what it gives me is a job. It gives me purpose.

[Sophia]

Yeah.

[John Deloney]

It's a blessing.

[Producer]

Okay.

[John Deloney]

And so it, it's, it's actually you're a gift, not a burden. And if you tell your friends, hey, if this ever gets to be too much, let me know, then they get to be grown ups and decide their, their level of boundaries and, and I have friends that will call me and we'll talk for an hour and a half or two hours and I'll say, hey, this is exceeding my ability to help you on the phone. I want you to call this person. I did that this weekend. I was out of the state and somebody that I love here in Nashville called and said, hey, I need to talk to you for a second. We talked for an hour and I said, hey, this, I'm in another state. You need some help right now? Here's a number. And I sent them a number of a personal friend of mine who's good at this.

[Producer]

Okay.

[John Deloney]

But never were they a burden.

[Sophia]

Okay.

[Producer]

Okay.

[Sophia]

Yeah.

[John Deloney]

Anytime you feel like a burden, I want you to think this. Actually, I want you. If you can, I want you. No, here's the deal. I think you can. There's a narrative that you can't. And that's what I want. I don't want you to go to war with yourself anymore. You've been through enough war. But I want you to challenge deeply this idea that you cannot, because I think you can. Anytime you feel like a burden, or I want to text him, but it's too much. I want you to say out loud or write down on in your journal, dad, mom, you don't get a vote anymore because what you're doing is you go back to 7 year old you and you're looking out of the side of your eye at your mom to see if she's raising a fist on you.

[Sophia]

Yeah.

[John Deloney]

And she didn't get a vote. Those men and women who are amazing who keep showing up for you, they get a vote. So here's what I want you to do. I want you to find somebody in town and I want you to look for somebody who is a trauma informed therapist.

[Sophia]

Yeah.

[John Deloney]

And I want you to ask for body work.

[Producer]

Okay.

[John Deloney]

I think you're at a point now we're sitting around and talking about it has run its course. I want you to sit with somebody who will help, like somebody who has been trained and I've done this. And it has ex. It's unfathomable how good it is, but it sucks. But it releases it from your nervous system. So now I can just be in a bad mood. Now I can just be angry. Now I can just whatever without just going whoosh all the way back. Not fun. But man, it's magic. It's not magic. It's just science. But is what it is what it is. But you might be there now and maybe you weren't totally healed. Maybe you have finally got yourself to safety, which is such an extraordinary accomplishment. But hear me say this. I'm gonna let you go. But I want you to hear me say this. You're worth having friends and you're worth reaching out to people. And in those moments when you say, I can't do it, I want you to exhale and say, mom and dad, you don't get a vote. I can. And then make that call or make that text. The work you're doing is extraordinary. And call a trauma informed counselor in your area and say, I want to do some body work. And I've got a pretty hellacious childhood and I want to let it go. Not just from my head, but I want to let it go from my nervous system, from my body. You're amazing. Sophia. You call me anytime anyway, okay? And I'll be there to show up for you. And listen, thank you so, so much for being brave and for making this call. While you're in a good space right now, I want you to reach out to your friends today, set up a coffee meeting, and I want you to just to make an announcement. Sophia's back. Sophia's here. You are going to be my ride or dies. Game on. We come back. A man asks if he should support his friend who's facing criminal charges. This show is sponsored by Better Help. Life can be a mess. Work can be stressful. And when these collide, when your regular life and your work life just smash together your mind and your body. Feel it. And there's plenty of data showing how workplace stress and even your boss can have a major impact on your mental and emotional stress. And most of us can't just take a vacation from work every time that we want to. But we can start with small steps to manage our work stress. First, we gotta do the things that keep our bodies in relationships strong. Exercise, Sunlight, eating right, relationship check ins. And when you need someone to sit with you and help you navigate things moving forward. Getting a great therapist to help walk with you can be a game changer. If you're thinking about trying therapy, reach out to my friends at Better Help. BetterHelp is a hundred percent online, which means it's affordable and it's convenient. No six month waiting lists to get started. You just fill out a short online survey to get matched with a licensed therapist. And as the largest online therapy provider in the world, BetterHelp can provide access to mental health professionals with a diverse variety of expertise. And BetterHelp has an app store rating of 4.9 out of 5 stars based on over 1.7 million client reviews. It's incredible. Manage your workday challenges with BetterHelp. Visit betterhelp.com DeLoney to get 10% off your first month. That's BetterHelp. H-E-L-P.com DeLoney all right, Minneapolis, let's talk to Jack. What's up, Jack?

[F]

Hey, John. I hope you're, you're doing good today. So, yeah, I can just kind of jump on into my, my question.

[John Deloney]

Yes. One dog, dude.

[F]

Sweet. So, yeah, a close friend of mine a couple months ago was caught in a sting operation for allegedly showing up to meet with a minor. And I can obviously give more details.

[John Deloney]

I think I'm good. I'm good on details.

[F]

His, his marriage might be over time and I just want to know if I should continue supporting him and if so, like, how should I.

[John Deloney]

Oh, man. I think it's going to depend on what the word support means. What do you mean by support?

[F]

Yeah, so I think, like, it'd be a little more difficult if we lived in the same place. We currently don't. So that makes it easier to, I guess, have more of like a physical boundary. But I guess because it's been an ongoing thing for the incident was probably two months ago or so now and kind of since he called me and made me aware, you know, he'd gone to jail and kind of everything that he's going through. We've had some pretty consistent, like, contact, like texting him and just trying to be there to, you know, whether it's sending him like a scripture or, you know, just calling him to check in on how he's doing. And he's, he's even, he's asked me to write a character letter for him. And I've, I've known him since, yeah, like we were middle of high school and we're in our mid-20s now. But yeah, just wanting to know, like, if, like, I should continue to, like, be there for him if, like, or if, like, I need to be taking a step back.

[John Deloney]

Yeah, I've got some pretty concrete thoughts on this and I'm trying to decide whether to just let them all out here in this format, but I guess I will you called and I've always committed to just being honest, so I had a close, close friend of mine who called and was dating a woman and that woman had a teenage son. And the teenage son got caught with a bunch of child pornography. And my buddy called and said, hey, she contacted an attorney, it's going to be a jillion dollars, but the attorney thinks we can do this, this, this and this, and then this and this and get this reduced in X, Y or Z. And I told my buddy, you have two daughters. You want this kid out on the street? And he got quiet and he said, no. And I said, you can manipulate the criminal justice system. He was just calling to say, hey man, I do. I give my girlfriend a bunch of money to whatever. But there was a deeper question and I said, that's his mom. And so she's should sit by him in court and hold his hand, but she should also walk him to jail because he's a predator who hurts kids. And if I'm you and I have a long term, one of my oldest friends in the world, number one, you've got to ask yourself if there have been signs for a long time that you just kind of blew by and if there are, you got to deal with you on that. The second is sometimes we just get shocked. We get surprised. And I would tell my buddy, I've known you for 20 something years. This stuns me, it disgust me. But I'm going to call you and I'll be a contact for you. I will not write you a character letter with the intent of reducing the impact you're going to have on hurting children in the community. So if I have a 30, I'm thinking of a couple of my oldest friends on the planet right now. I would tell them directly, I will not write you a letter if this is true because you're not who I thought you were or I've kept quiet and you're exactly who I knew you were. Either way, I can't write a letter in good conscience because you hurt kids. But I'll sit by you during your court hearing, I'll hug you before you go to jail. And I, I, I, I just. And I know that answer is going to get me in trouble with everybody. I don't believe in, in cutting people off. I also don't believe in lying and trying to manipulate systems, especially when people hurt children.

[Robert]

Yes.

[F]

Yeah. No, for sure. And it's, it's like, it's so hard, right, because it's someone that I've known for a while, right? And maybe you hear of these stories and I'm on the other side of it, right? And it's maybe my wife and one of her friends going through this. I'd be like, you know what? That guy's scum of the earth.

[Sophia]

Right.

[John Deloney]

And two things can be true. You can have a friend, you can have a friend for 30 years or 20 years and you'll have a ton of great times together. And you've told him a lot of your deep dark secrets and he's told you yours and he was in your wedding and he can hurt children. Both are true. And if you write that letter, it's your, it's a, you're contributing to him getting out early potentially to go hurt another kid. So I'm going to tell you, that's on you. The second one is we often start scrambling to try to do something right. And it's our own. We're just trying to burn activity so that we don't have to grieve the fact that we just lost a 20 year friend because our friend's not a good person or our friend did a really evil thing. And you and I both know the odds that he got caught the very first time or basically zero.

[Robert]

Yeah.

[F]

No, and, and he kind of had, had alluded to. Right. Like there was a lot leading up to it and the two and a half years he's been married, you know, pornography issues for a long, long time.

[John Deloney]

Yeah, there's a lot. I mean, 90 something percent of men look at pornography.

[F]

Right. But very few men, 90 don't cross that line.

[John Deloney]

That's exactly right. So I mean, he can say everything he wants and paint you a story. Whatever he was gonna, he has and was going to again, sexually abuse a child. I'm out, but I'll sit with you. And I know that sounds weird and messy and whatever. Right.

[F]

I guess. Is there, is there like any particular like verbiage or like when I'm talking to him? Because it's like I feel like I'm almost trying to walk like a tightrope a little bit.

[John Deloney]

I'm not walking tight ropes. He doesn't get that vote in your head anymore. Anymore.

[F]

I mean like as far as like how I, like how I express like my support for him and be there for him while also not, you know, I definitely not condoning the action. Like, does that make sense?

[John Deloney]

Yeah. Here's what you're, here's what you're trying to do. You're trying to say it just right so he won't get mad or that he won't feel hurt. You can't Own that. The only thing you can own from this point forward is who you are and who you are going to continue to be as a person of integrity. And as a person of integrity, I don't abandon my friends. And as a person of integrity, I don't let anybody hurt children. Yeah. And so you, there's not a soft way to say this. And since he probably. Is he in house arrest or is he in jail right now?

[F]

He's. He, he's monitored. Yeah.

[John Deloney]

So, and so if you're not, if you don't live in the same town as him and you can't have this conversation in person, so then you call him on the phone and you say, dude, I've done some soul searching. Here's where I'm at. You're my 20 year friend and I'm going to call you every week. If you go to jail, I'm going to write you letters and I'm going to do my best to visit you because friends don't abandon friends. And I cannot write you a letter of support because you're not who I thought you were. Right. And I won't write you a letter of support. Are you freaking kidding me, man? After all. Yes. I'm drawing a line and he might hang up on you and never talk to you again. And then you're gonna have to grieve the fact that your friendship wasn't what you thought it was. Yeah. And so he's already shown you what kind of friend he is by putting you in this position.

[F]

Yeah, no, definitely, like, definitely feelings of like, betrayal a little for sure. And obviously like there. Yeah. At least on my side. I'm sure, you know, his wife would see more signs it than, than I would.

[Robert]

But.

[F]

Yeah, like just totally caught everyone off guard other than, you know, I'd expect. His wife probably maybe seen signs, but maybe, maybe not.

[John Deloney]

I mean that's, that's, it's a waste of energy to even go there. Yeah. But here's the deal. He does not get a vote. And all I can tell you is what I would do if it was one of my closest, oldest friends.

[F]

So, yeah, you don't, you don't see a problem as long as it's in a way of, hey, I'm, I'm with you. I'm here to support you through this.

[John Deloney]

I wouldn't use that language.

[F]

Done.

[John Deloney]

I would not use the language. I'm here to support you. I would say I'll, I'll sit with you in court, but I'm not supporting you. I'm not supporting like you get what I'm saying?

[F]

Yeah, yeah. No, for sure. And I guess that's kind of what I was talking about earlier with kind of walking that line of probably the.

[John Deloney]

Language I would say is I'm not show the love.

[F]

I'm not gonna like condoning, you know.

[John Deloney]

I'm not gonna abandon you, but I can't support what you did.

[F]

For sure.

[John Deloney]

And so I'm not a believer in abandonment. If I say I'm in, I'm in. If I say you're my friend, you're my friend. But that might mean I'm coming to visit you in jail. I'm not going to make up lies with the authorities so that you can potentially go hurt another child. Not going to do that. Right. Do you have kids?

[F]

No, not yet.

[John Deloney]

I do. I don't want this guy on the street. Yeah, I wouldn't either.

[Producer]

Okay.

[John Deloney]

This is a, this is a bellwether moment for you to find out what kind of man you are. And men do not run from messy middles. Men run right into the middle of it. And the messy middle here is I'm not going to abandon a 20 year friend. And I'm also, I'm not going to lie. Just because you went to church camp with me and did community service doesn't mean you're not also a child molester.

[F]

Yeah, they can both be true.

[John Deloney]

That's right. And right in this case it sounds like both are true. So that's the best I can tell you, brother. I, I, man, I hate, I hate that he put you in this position. So do what you're gonna do, man. But that's, I wouldn't abandon a friend, but I'm sure not writing them a letter. And I'm not gonna try to get him out of jail, but I'll sit with them as they get sentenced. And I think that's what the world needs more of, less abandonment and more accountability all at the same time. We'll be right back. Everybody's talking about AI and the Internets and your digital privacy. And I want to give you a quick word about my friends at Delete Me. Does anyone else feel like our digital footprints are starting to feel like digital trails leading bad scam artists right back to us right now. Scammers are using phishing attacks with a ph where they try to trick you into giving them something by pretending to know you. You might get an email or a text or a phone call and the person or the AI bot more than likely on the other end. Sounds like Someone who's trying to help you out. They're not. And with these new technological advancements that are moving way faster than any of us can comprehend, no one is really safe. So what are we supposed to do? You can start controlling what you can. You can learn about how to be careful online and offline with your digital privacy, and you can sign up with Delete Me. I use and recommend Deleteme because they work in the background to reduce my online presence, and that way I don't have to worry about creepy data brokers having my information. They've reviewed over tens of thousands of sites for me, and they've removed my data from hundreds of them, which has saved me countless hours and a ton of stress. Stop the phishing attacks, the harassment, and the other online threats before they even start, and take control of your digital privacy. With Delete me, go to joindeleteme.com DeLoney today for 20% off the annual plan that comes out to less than nine bucks a month. That's joinedelete me.com/deloney. Go check them out. All right, we're back. Kelly, we got a money and marriage question here. By the way, we'll put a link in the show notes here. If you're watching this, the money marriage event for November is on sale and the Valentine's Day weekend getaway here in Nashville. Both of those are in Nashville. Both of those are entire weekends with me and my buddy Rachel Cruz and a bunch of special guests. And I'm kind of biased, but I think it's the best marriage event for your. You and your spouse on the planet. It's awesome. And. But it's here live with us. And. And so check it out in the show notes if you want to come. Here's a question that comes in the anonymous. Came in the anonymous question box during the last Money marriage retreat. So how do we get out of the TV phone cycle after work every day? I want real experiences, but it feels like we can't get away from screens. This may be the easiest one ever. Are you ready?

[Producer]

Okay.

[John Deloney]

Two cool things. I didn't know this about screens, either TVs or iPads or phones, but it's amazing. They have a button on the side of them and it just says off. Actually, they took the words off off, but you can turn them off more honestly and realistically. You can take your TV out of your living room and put it in a closet. How do I know I've actually done this thing? Took the TVs out, unplugged them so that when I wanted to watch something, I had to go. Go through a process to turn it back on. When it comes to phones, I've been through seasons where I leave my phone in my car. It just doesn't leave. It doesn't leave my car. I have two phones right now. One has social media on it, and it's a work tool. And the way I like to look at that is like, I build houses, and I have to have social media as a tool. If you were a home builder and you sat in a restaurant with a drill going, that would be ridiculous. Or if you took a hammer and a board and at dinner, at your dinner table or on your couch, you were just hammering away at it. That would be absurd. Well, social media is a tool I get. People have to have it for their jobs and to check in with their moms and dad. Fine. But it stays in the car. It stays in your work bag. And if you can't afford to have it on a second phone, don't have it. Or if you can't control yourself, the first thing they tell you to do if you're struggling with alcohol is get all the alcohol out of your house, stop going to places where they serve it. And so it has to be that caustic. And here's the thing. You're talking 30 days. I'm telling you 30 days, and your body will readjust. If you take your TV out and you unplug it and you take the cord away and you put the cord in a closet, leave a TV in the living room, fine, Take it out of your bedroom, for God's sake. But leave it in somewhere and. Or take the cord out and just get rid of the court. Hide the court. Put it somewhere so that if you want to watch a movie on a Friday night, you got to go dig it out, go plug it back in, go punch all the codes back in. And at that point, you're gonna be like, this sucks. Let's just go out to eat. Let's go to a movie. Let's go dancing. But you have to put. Here's the nerd. You have to put barriers in front of yourself if you want to change a behavior. Or the nerd way to say that is you have to create fe. Behavioral friction. And if you go through all this rigamaro and you or your spouse, the phone's in the house, you're like, no, no, no phone in the car. But I got it. No phone in the car. And now we're just sitting here staring at each other. You know what you might do? Have sex. Know what you might do? Like go out. You know what you might do? Like something but you won't just instantly flip on a screen. So that's my thoughts. And by the way, if everyone will do this for 30 days, you'll be stunned at how your body re regulates itself and it will jump right back in if you let it. But man, it's 30 days of this sucks. And then you break the. You break that initial crave cycle and then you can get on to having a real life on the other side of the screens. Thank you so much. I love you guys. Stay in school. Don't do drugs. Actually, there's no school. That's to enjoy your summer. But still, don't do drugs. I mean, unless you're Kelly and God almighty, those smells in the house. You can do all the drugs you want, sister. You are on you. I. I would be doing whatever I had to do to get that smell out of my nose. So there you go, sister. Love you guys. By.