Owning Your Problems Is the Key to Unlocking Your Future (With Jade Warshaw)

Summary

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The Dr. John Delony Show

Episode: “Owning Your Problems Is the Key to Unlocking Your Future” (with Jade Warshaw)

Date: January 2, 2026
Host: Dr. John Delony, Ramsey Network
Guest: Jade Warshaw, author of What No One Tells You About Money

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Episode Overview

This episode delves deep into the emotional and relational realities of financial stress, shame, and marriage resilience. Dr. John Delony invites his longtime friend and colleague Jade Warshaw to share her raw, unflinching story—spanning her high-performing, adaptive childhood, a marriage tested by nearly half a million dollars in debt, grief, shame, and the liberating power of “owning your problems.” Jade’s new book, What No One Tells You About Money, forms the backdrop for a vulnerable discussion on why facing reality is necessary for healing and moving forward—both with your finances and your relationships.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Childhood Lessons: Performance, Pressure & Competition

• Jade’s upbringing was marked by constant relocation, as her dad was a professional college football coach (07:00). She often found herself the only Black kid in her class and learned to make friends and stand out through excellence in sports and academics.
  • “Like, I can't just play basketball. I have to be the best one on the team. I can't just be the best one. I have to be the captain.” (08:02, Jade)
• There was pressure to be a “peacekeeper” at home, doing everything to perfection to maintain balance (08:45).

2. Truth-Telling vs. Peacekeeping: Becoming Unapologetically Honest

• Jade’s adult life swung from being a peacekeeper to a relentless truth-teller, influenced by therapy and her marriage.
  • “Now I am the most truth-teller that I can be, because I spent so much time covering things.” (09:33, Jade)
• Her therapist identified a core need to have reality acknowledged, stemming from childhood experiences of things being left unspoken (11:16).
  • “I’m like Judge Judy. I’m like, don’t pee on my leg and tell me it’s raining.” (11:16, Jade)

3. Marriage, Transparency, and Financial Shock

• Jade met her husband Sam (“a walking Xanax”—calm, steady) in college and plunged into marriage soon after, both burdened by massive student loans (20:09–22:21).
• They did not grasp the full extent of each other’s debts until after marriage—an eye-opening and crushing realization:
  • “We went through dating, met families, got married...and didn’t know that part. It didn’t even occur to any of us to ask that question.” (25:15, Jon)
• The “reckoning conversation” around the true sum of their debts was devastating, and tallying the numbers felt hopeless.
  • “If I had written out all the debts that night, John, it would have been curtains...We just need to work and make a lot of money.” (29:41, Jade)

4. Enduring Crisis: Loss, Shame & Mental Health

• The couple’s journey to pay down debt coincided with the deaths of close family members, propelling them into a dark, survival-focused period (31:03).
• Shame and despair lingered, particularly around the feeling of being a burden—a topic rarely addressed in traditional financial advice:
  • “I just never saw that level of despair...in my mind, it was my job to make sure he keeps his life...for five years.” (37:07, Jade)
• Jade was terrified for Sam’s mental health, at times fearing for his life.
  • “Saying that stuff out loud—that’s what eats you alive. That’s what shame does.” (38:28, Jade)

5. The Reality Principle: No “Fairness,” Just Your Race

• The podcast explores the distinction between “what’s fair” and “what’s real,” especially in marriage and financial recovery.
  • “The cultural air we breathe is: whatever it is, it’s not fair...and so I’m going to war against the system...instead of looking in the mirror.” (41:37, Jon)
• Ownership, not fairness, is the path to healing and freedom.
• Endurance—doing "the next right thing" day after day, even if it feels impossible—is the key lesson Jade would pass to her children (50:08).

6. On Marriage, Hardship, and the Fullness of Life

• Despite the hardship, Jade is a strong advocate for marriage, seeing it as a crucible for deep personal growth and fulfillment (53:04).
  • “Nothing is more fulfilling long-term than going in and getting your hands dirty with people. Life is messy, but it’s the biggest blessing.” (54:56, Jade)
• She describes the hollow victory of celebrating achievements alone versus the fullness that comes from struggling and succeeding with others (56:07).

7. Adapting & Thriving Amidst Hardship

• The couple learned to normalize discomfort: living with roommates, selling cars, and adjusting to new standards of living—demonstrating human resilience and adaptability (45:38–46:58).
• They also acknowledged the “good stuff”—community, career luck, and global travel—even in the midst of struggle.

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On reality and honesty:
  • “I’m like Judge Judy. I’m like, don’t pee on my leg and tell me it’s raining. That is my number one thing. I cannot stand it. I can’t stand it.”
    — Jade Warshaw [11:16]
• On shame in financial despair:
  • “That was my biggest...that shame was the biggest fear I had in our marriage.”
    — Jade [35:37]
  • “Shame is such a secret. Like, it wants to be your biggest, deepest, darkest secret—that your very existence is messing up somebody else’s existence.”
    — Jade [38:37]
• On the “fairness” trap:
  • “If you’re thinking about fairness, you’re thinking about a competition...That ain’t life.”
    — Jade [51:11]
  • “That’s an opting out of reality.”
    — Jon [51:48]
• On the value of hardship:
  • “Nothing is wasted.”
    — Jade [57:09]
  • “I would argue that the person that doesn’t want to go through anything tough is the person who’s immature...struggles, tests, trials, that builds maturity.”
    — Jade [56:42]
• On doing life together:
  • “Why would you want to go through a life without that? It’s hard in the moment, but it makes you a person that can feel this.”
    — Jade [55:35]

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Timestamps for Important Segments

• Childhood and family dynamics: 04:22–09:28
• From peacekeeping to truth-telling: 09:33–15:34
• Beginning of Jade & Sam’s relationship: 20:09–22:21
• Financial reckoning and first debt talk: 24:58–29:41
• Surviving dark seasons: death, loss, and emotional distance: 31:03–34:43
• Shame, mental health, and honesty about fear: 35:06–39:03
• Cultural fixation on “fairness” vs. personal responsibility: 41:37–51:11
• Adapting to new normals, resilience: 44:09–46:58
• On enduring with and for others (marriage and meaning): 52:26–56:42
• Lessons for future generations—endurance, adaptability, and owning your race: 49:38–51:11

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Tone & Language

Both Dr. Delony and Jade are candid, direct, sometimes gentle, sometimes fiery—never shying away from hard truths or vulnerable admissions. The conversation is supportive but challenging, inviting listeners to sit in discomfort and commit to “owning” their reality as the path forward—regardless of what’s fair or what they “deserve.”

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Summary for First-Time Listeners

This episode is a rare, unvarnished look at the intersection of money, marriage, shame, and real hope. It will resonate with anyone who feels overwhelmed or ashamed of their circumstances, or who is struggling to carry their burdens alone. The heart of the message—facing reality with courage, taking ruthless ownership of your problems, and enduring together—offers both solidarity and an actionable roadmap for those desperate for change.

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Recommended: Jade Warshaw’s book, What No One Tells You About Money (releases January 6th)

Transcript

[Jade Warshaw]

Sam will tell you living with Jade is hard. Cause Jade does not let anything slide.

[Jon (Host of the Doctor Joel DeLoney Show)]

What does that get you?

[Jade Warshaw]

Reality. It's the life happening around it that makes it more crushing. If I cannot be in that role, I love it. But if I have to trust and.

[Jon (Host of the Doctor Joel DeLoney Show)]

Believe like I will. Hey, what's going on? This is jon with the Doctor Joel DeLoney show coming to you from Nashville, Tennessee. Normally, we take calls from real people going through real challenges, and we sit down and figure out what's the next right move. We pull up a seat at the table. And on today's show, I actually have somebody pull up a seat at the table. It's somebody I've traveled the country with, somebody I've done live events with, somebody I've shared meals with and somebody I'm going to be honest with you, I thought I knew really well. And I'm talking about my friend Jade Warshaw. She is a powerhouse. And she's got a new book out called what no one tells you about Money. And we're inundated. We're inundated with money. Books, money, headlines, money. Here's what you do. Here's what you do with your money. Whatever. Nobody talks about what it feels like when you open up your account or when you're sitting there trying to make this thing called a budget or when you're just get your paycheck and it's already gone. Nobody talks about that despair. Nobody talks about what it's like to look up and actually add up all the money you owe somebody else, all the banks, all the car dealerships and to realize I'm never going to be able to have kids. I'm never going to be able to buy a house. And Jade's got a pretty extraordinary story where her and her husband work through it all. But this conversation is easily the most raw conversation I've had on the show. There's lots of tears shed. There's lots of hard questions asked back and forth. And it's one of the most powerful conversations I've ever been a part of, period, much less recorded. And so if you are one of the millions and millions and millions of Americans or anybody all over the world who you're reading all these money headlines and yada, yada. But dude, the headlines don't capture what's going on inside your chest at your kitchen table when you can't pay your bills or when you're like, dude, my kid can't go to that school or I have to decide between light this month or food or I Want my kid to be able to go to this college or this school, and it's never going to happen, or I'm never going to be able to buy a house because of the crushing weight of all this stuff. If you ever feel that. I felt it, dude. I've paced my house at night not knowing how I'm going to pay my bills, and I've not. Outside of a few other times, I don't really have ever felt that alone. And so if this is you, and I know it's a lot of y' all listening, I want you to pull up a seat and listen to this conversation with me and my friend Jade. It will give you some light in the darkness, and it will make you feel less alone. Jay's new book, what no one tells you about Money, comes out January 6th. That's my birthday. So for my birthday, I want you to buy this book, and I want you to read it, and I want you to read it with your friends, with your spouse. I want you to pull up a seat and exhale, and maybe for the first time in a long time, not feel so alone. And more importantly, or equally importantly, you're gonna have a road map out. It's a real road map that Jade cut out in the forest with a machete. Her and her husband Sam, like, they created a path that you can follow, and it's a path to freedom. So pull up a seat, get your friends around. This is safe for your kids to listen to. Like, this is a good one, and this is a powerful one. Thank you for joining me and my friend Jade Warshaw for an important, powerful conversation. I've known you for several years now. We've traveled the country together. Yeah. Our desks are, like, down the. Down the. The wall from each other.

[Jade Warshaw]

Yours is by the window. I'm a little reasonful of that.

[Jon (Host of the Doctor Joel DeLoney Show)]

It's cool, man. Like, one of the last remainings. Tell me about Jade growing up.

[Jade Warshaw]

Oh, my gosh. Jade growing up. Okay. You know, I can't. I feel like I can tell you from other people's perspective because, like, when you're a kid, you're just, like, in your life, you're not, like, thinking about it.

[Jon (Host of the Doctor Joel DeLoney Show)]

Yeah. Okay. Do this like you're a parent. You got two kids, you're a mom. Take that view towards very 6, 9, 10.

[Jade Warshaw]

Yeah. Very creative, very imaginative. Always had ideas that were, like, a little bit different.

[Jon (Host of the Doctor Joel DeLoney Show)]

Yeah. About what?

[Jade Warshaw]

Like, I remember distinctly having this idea that I wanted to be an architect, and I wanted to design my own home, and I want It. Basically, what I had in my mind was a tiny house today.

[Jon (Host of the Doctor Joel DeLoney Show)]

Yeah.

[Jade Warshaw]

Yeah. And I wanted to design this own place and just live completely by myself. And, like, that was an idea that I had.

[Jon (Host of the Doctor Joel DeLoney Show)]

Yes.

[Jade Warshaw]

And when we moved to Tennessee as a family, we were, like, coming around a bend and there was, like, a little, tiny, like, shack. And I was like, that's it. Like, that's the tiny house I want to live in. Like, it was like, I saw it come true, and my family was like, no, you don't want to live there. Like, that's sad. But anyway.

[Jon (Host of the Doctor Joel DeLoney Show)]

So was creativity celebrated or were you a weird kid?

[Jade Warshaw]

I think that it wasn't uncelebrated, but it also wasn't invested in. So, like, for me growing up, it was like sports. Like, if you could excel in sports. Yeah, we'll invest in that. We'll get you what you need. We'll be at the games. But, like, music, not. Not as much. And so while I loved sports and I love basketball, love volleyball, love jump roping, I also really loved singing and loved the arts. But my mom, it was like my mom was the singer. So, like, I never felt like I wanted to really show them that I could do that because I felt like I'd have to be like, compared with my mom. My mom's an amazing singer. And so I used to hide that. And I thought that if I sang under the covers, nobody could hear me. And so I'd sing under the covers thinking nobody could hear me.

[Jon (Host of the Doctor Joel DeLoney Show)]

What was. Is that. Is that weird being in. I mean, that's. That's, like, a pretty astute understanding at a young age. Like, I'm competing.

[Jade Warshaw]

Everything was a competition.

[Jon (Host of the Doctor Joel DeLoney Show)]

Tell me about that.

[Jade Warshaw]

So, okay, so my dad was a football coach. So there's that, like, there's coach.

[Jon (Host of the Doctor Joel DeLoney Show)]

Like, what ages was he coaching?

[Jade Warshaw]

My whole life. My whole, like, young life.

[Jon (Host of the Doctor Joel DeLoney Show)]

Okay.

[Jade Warshaw]

I was born into him. Coaching at Eastern Washington University. Before that was at Nebraska. Yeah.

[Jon (Host of the Doctor Joel DeLoney Show)]

Oh, God.

[Jade Warshaw]

So. And then when I was first, second, third grade, he was at Oregon State. So, like, coaching. Coaching.

[Jon (Host of the Doctor Joel DeLoney Show)]

Yeah, yeah. And not like YMCA coaching, but like a professional college coach.

[Jade Warshaw]

Professional college coach. Pac 10. Like, legit.

[Jon (Host of the Doctor Joel DeLoney Show)]

Yeah, yeah.

[Jade Warshaw]

And so because of that, like, the nature of that life, you do move a lot. So, like, I was born in Washington, moved to Oregon, moved to Kansas, moved to Illinois, moved to Tennessee. We were supposed to move to Texas, but my dad moved because we had already moved so much that he went on his own. And because of that, like I said before, it's like, you're going to these Cities. You have to make friends. And. And for me, I was always, like, all of those parts of the country. Like, I was always the only black kid in my class. Sometimes, like, in the entire school. And so for me, the first thing was, like, how can I make friends? Like, I can. Like, because it was a competition. Like, I've got to be able to fit in. I've got to be able to make friends. I've got to be better than the other options. Otherwise, I'm going to get left out. I'm going to get made fun of. So it's like, hey, now I can prove to them, like, I can be really great at sports, really talented, like, all of these things to prove that I'm, like, up here. And so that's how it got to be for me. Like, I can't just play basketball. I have to be the best one on the team.

[Jon (Host of the Doctor Joel DeLoney Show)]

Yeah.

[Jade Warshaw]

I can't just be the best one on the team. I have to be the captain of the team.

[Jon (Host of the Doctor Joel DeLoney Show)]

But. But usually that social pressure. I'll say usually. Sometimes that social pressure, you come home and you can drop your shoulders. But if you walk in the house and I'm also competing with Mom, I'm also competing with dad, that's heavy.

[Jade Warshaw]

I don't know that I was, in my head competing with them, but I definitely.

[Jon (Host of the Doctor Joel DeLoney Show)]

I know this is. I can't let this part of myself be seen because that's theirs.

[Jade Warshaw]

A little bit of that, a little bit of that. I'm sorry. I know what I want to say, but I'm deciding, do I want to say it?

[Jon (Host of the Doctor Joel DeLoney Show)]

You say, and we can edit it out.

[Jade Warshaw]

I also know, like, I felt like I did have a very clear role to play in my house. It wasn't necessarily as. Like, my brother was the jester. Like, he was the one that was, like, comic relief. But I feel like I was the one that was like, I have to keep everything together. Like, I have to keep everything balanced. If they're angry, like, I gotta make it right. If they're this. I gotta. So I have to be, like, good grades, you know, not getting in trouble. Not like that was my role. It's like, I'm gonna be straight ahead. If you ask me, jade, clean up the kitchen. I'm gonna do it perfect. If you say, jade, get dinner started when you get home. I'm gonna do it perfect. Like that. That was my role because I didn't want anything to, like, I want, like, peacekeeper. Like, I don't want anything to disrupt it.

[Jon (Host of the Doctor Joel DeLoney Show)]

How has that shown back up in your adult life.

[Jade Warshaw]

I feel like it's gone the opposite direction now. I don't care about keeping peace at all. I'm like, I am the most truth teller that I can be because I spent a lot of time covering things. So now I'm like, almost to a fault. I feel like I have to say what it is. And in this role, it served me well.

[Jon (Host of the Doctor Joel DeLoney Show)]

Yeah. What was that switch? Most people never make that switch until their marriage is an ash.

[Jade Warshaw]

Probably getting married, probably being married and understanding that you have to live in reality if you want a marriage to work.

[Jon (Host of the Doctor Joel DeLoney Show)]

Yeah, most people don't. It took me, like, being married 15 years before I was like, oh, we're about to not be married anymore.

[Jade Warshaw]

But if you see. If you see the opposite, then, you know, like, we all take things from our past. Right? Like, we take. We. Most of the times we're like, oh, you know, my parents, they taught me this and this. And you're like, naming all these wonderful things. But you can also learn so much of what not to do.

[Jon (Host of the Doctor Joel DeLoney Show)]

You don't want to do that yet.

[Jade Warshaw]

Yes. And I mean, listen, my kids are going to learn things from me of what not to do. I hope they learn more of what to do. But. But you can either look at the stuff that was, like, negative and go, oh, my God, I can't believe this happened, blah, blah, blah, or you can go, hey, I just got a crash course and what I'm not going to do. And that's so great to be able to know that, like, they're all learnings and they're all. It's all research. So I knew. I'm like, we must, like. And Sam will tell you, you know, will tell you living with Jade is hard because Jade does not let anything slide. I don't let anything slide. And sometimes he's like, can we just. Like, can we just.

[Jon (Host of the Doctor Joel DeLoney Show)]

What is holding it so tight? What does that. What does that get you?

[Jade Warshaw]

Reality, like, living in reality. Like, never. Like, I'm like Judge Judy. I'm like, don't pee on my leg and tell me it's raining. Like, that is my number one thing. I cannot stand it. I can't stand it. And my. So when I came here to Ramsey, I started seeing a therapist. And she told me. She was like, you know, for you, Jade, she was like, you just want. You just want somebody to hear something and verify that it was true. Because when you were a kid, nobody acknowledged anything. And I was like, yes. And so you go in your head and you're like, After a while, when nobody. When something happens and nobody acknowledges it, after a while you're like, did I make that up? Or, like, did I? Did I? And so I. I hate that. And so now in reality, if something happens, I'd be like, oh, why did you lie? Or, why did I lie? Or, you know, like, I just. I just say it because I want to know that it was said, and I want to know that I acknowledged it and it was, like, marked as. Yeah, that happened. You know, I'm like that. I know you've seen it.

[Jon (Host of the Doctor Joel DeLoney Show)]

I know.

[Jade Warshaw]

I'm just not playing games out here.

[Jon (Host of the Doctor Joel DeLoney Show)]

Is that exhausting?

[Jade Warshaw]

No, it's easy. It's so liberating. Why would it be hard? Why is it hard?

[Jon (Host of the Doctor Joel DeLoney Show)]

Okay, let me say it this way. Let me say it this way. Not easy, but in our current world, and. And by the way, this is my favorite. One of my favorite things about you. It's why I consider you somebody I trust. That comes at a cost.

[Jade Warshaw]

Does that.

[Jon (Host of the Doctor Joel DeLoney Show)]

That make sense?

[Jade Warshaw]

Yeah. Then they weren't supposed to be by me anyway.

[Jon (Host of the Doctor Joel DeLoney Show)]

I know, but that's lonely, though. Do you think, or. No. And I get what I'm saying. It sounds like. What I'm saying is I'd rather be surrounded by a bunch of people who kind of don't know, then have nobody. Right? But it's an exhausting. When you feel like you're the only person in any environment, any relationship, any anything, always calling it out, that's exhausting. Or maybe it's freeing.

[Jade Warshaw]

For me, it doesn't feel exhausting. Somebody's gotta do it. Somebody's gotta do it. And let's be honest, most of us only have a couple of really close friends anyway, right? So everything else is like outer layer stuff. Like, it's nice to have, but the people who know me best, my husband, my sister, my buddy, you know, I have a couple of buddies that, like, they know me. And they have never been like, hey, Jade, you're a little too honest. They've never said that. They've always accepted me as I am, and so I'm fine with that. And like anybody else, if it makes them uncomfortable, it's because they're probably trying to hide something or they're trying to play me. And I'm like, why are you trying to play me? Don't do that.

[Jon (Host of the Doctor Joel DeLoney Show)]

The whole world operated like you. We would get. We would be able to operate at a much higher level. That's awesome.

[Jade Warshaw]

Well, that's very. That is very kind. Probably overly kind, but I'll Take it.

[Jon (Host of the Doctor Joel DeLoney Show)]

No, I, I, I struggle with the balance of saying something and then letting something just happen that makes sense. And so, like, I, it's a, it's a daily thing for me to live in reality. That's a, that's a practice for me.

[Jade Warshaw]

Yeah.

[Jon (Host of the Doctor Joel DeLoney Show)]

But also is the reality of me saying this thing, is that gonna get me the reality or do I need to have. I remember talking to one guy and was like, the only thing worse who hated conflict. And as a professional, I mean, he does conflict for a living. He's a famous guy. But I remember him saying, the only thing I hate worse than conflict is going to bed knowing you didn't tell the truth today. And it's a war inside him. Right? And so I, I wrestle with that. Like, yeah, I need to speak up here and say something, or everybody in this room knows how insane this is. I'm gonna let this plane land because I know it's gonna land because this is madness. Right? I wrestle with that.

[Jade Warshaw]

Well, I mean, let's get one thing straight. If, if, if, if you and I will say that I, I, I was guilty of this. If I'm this way and it's only towards other people, then I'm just critical, right? Like, I'm just always going, well, you, this is what you did. This is what you said. Da, da da, da, da. I had a really good friend. You need, you need good friends. I had a really good friend that. She was like, man, you're hard to know. She was like, you're just.

[Jon (Host of the Doctor Joel DeLoney Show)]

She's like, what does that mean?

[Jade Warshaw]

She was like, you just. It takes, she said, it takes so long to get to know you. And this was years back. And I was like, I don't know what you mean by that. And then I had another friend, I asked another friend, and she was like, yeah. She was like, think about it. We knew each other 10 years before. We were really good friends. Like, really? And I was like, huh? And then I asked another friend, and they were like, yeah, like, so I got, I got the verification, and then I had kids. And that, that's really what I think changed that of, like, hey, I can't just be, like, laser focused on what everybody else is doing and calling out. Like, I have to. Even though I'm doing that within myself, I have to be open to other people so that it doesn't just come across as, man, Jade is critical. Jade is just, like, really tough. She's nice, but she's, like, tough to. She's like a hard nut to crack, right? And yeah, it took a friend to be like, like, you need a hug. Or like you need to, you need to give some people a hug, like, that kind of thing. And I really do give her credit for like saying that. And then like having kids that, that also helped that. Because now it's like coming here, I would never have had this interview with you, but now I'm like, what do you want to know? Yeah, yeah. What do I have to hide? I don't have anything to hide.

[Jon (Host of the Doctor Joel DeLoney Show)]

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[Jade Warshaw]

Yeah.

[Jon (Host of the Doctor Joel DeLoney Show)]

As an athlete. You meet this guy who I love. What was it about this Sam guy that you were like, I'm gonna do the rest of my life with that guy.

[Jade Warshaw]

He was totally different than everybody that I'd ever met.

[Jon (Host of the Doctor Joel DeLoney Show)]

I didn't know till just now your dad was a college football coach. I can't think of a more not Sam thing.

[Jade Warshaw]

Complete opposite. Sam is my grandfather.

[Jon (Host of the Doctor Joel DeLoney Show)]

Tell me about that.

[Jade Warshaw]

So I remember reading once that a lot of girls like try to find a guy like their dad and marry their dad. It sounds weird, but you know what I mean.

[Jon (Host of the Doctor Joel DeLoney Show)]

No, totally. Yeah.

[Jade Warshaw]

And I remember talking to Sam. This was after like a little after we'd gotten married and we were talking about that. He was like, I am not your dad. And I was like, no, you're not. And I thought for a minute and I was like, oh, you're my granddad. Like you're my grandfather. Like my grandfather. I didn't get to see him as much as I wanted to. Cause he lived cross country. But like he was always just very steady. He never like got worked up that I saw his, his, his tone was always right here. He was always saying something reasonable. Nothing really ruffled his feathers. Like in my mind, like that was such like a steady, like steady Eddie. And that Sam, like Sam is number one, the only person that could be married to me. And vice versa possibly. But he's just so like, you know him, he doesn't go.

[Jon (Host of the Doctor Joel DeLoney Show)]

I call him a walking Xanax.

[Jade Warshaw]

Yeah, he just doesn't. He's just right there.

[Jon (Host of the Doctor Joel DeLoney Show)]

But his right there is not aloofness, it's kindness. In general, like insane. Really. Perceptive generosity.

[Jade Warshaw]

Absolutely. He's very sensitive. He's very like, aware of like, what's going on. Yeah, yeah. Yes.

[Jon (Host of the Doctor Joel DeLoney Show)]

So you've got this story, and we won't rehash it much here because you've told this story. And I want people to read your, your new book. You go to college, you got a full ride, you take out a whole bunch of student loans because it's just free money and we're 18, whatever. And then you get married to a guy that also has his own stuff. Right. Y' all sit down and y' all are pretty close to owing together and your new life together. Half million bucks and a hodgepodge of stuff. Student loans and cars and.

[Jade Warshaw]

Yeah, mostly student loans by far. Yeah.

[Jon (Host of the Doctor Joel DeLoney Show)]

What. What's a moment? Like there has to be that add up moment where this stuff all. Because you and I were talking about this a couple weeks ago. Like there's a million, A million books, a million voices, a million people trying to tell the story about. You should do this with your money. This, you do this. The psychology of money. Then this is all. That's fine. I'm good.

[Jade Warshaw]

Yeah.

[Jon (Host of the Doctor Joel DeLoney Show)]

Nobody has. Tells the story of. Oh, God.

[Jade Warshaw]

Right. Yeah.

[Jon (Host of the Doctor Joel DeLoney Show)]

That gets left out. Everybody wants to run to the path and here's what you do. But nobody tells the truth about like.

[Jade Warshaw]

Like the life that's happening around it.

[Jon (Host of the Doctor Joel DeLoney Show)]

I, I owe half a million dollars.

[Jade Warshaw]

Yeah.

[Jon (Host of the Doctor Joel DeLoney Show)]

Or for most, like I, I owe 300 or $200,000.

[Jade Warshaw]

Right, right, right. It's that. But it's the life happening around it that makes it even more like, like crushing. Right.

[Jon (Host of the Doctor Joel DeLoney Show)]

Tell me about.

[Jade Warshaw]

What do you mean? Because, okay, so when we, we got married, it was about a week after graduation. You know, when you get married or when you graduate student loans aren't due till you've got that grace period. Right. So nothing was due yet. But it was 2007, going into 2008, Great Recession. So it, it was like right as we were turning the corner to 2008, everything starts. Gas prices are crazy, real estate markets folding in. That's when the student loan payments started coming in the mail. And it was like, first mine came and then his started coming. And I was like, oh, holy hell. Like, what is going on? And that was when. That was the first, like, I'll call that the first crack of when I was like, hey, like, I know my student loans. Like, it was like bills would come and we, it was like whoever saw the bill would pay it. But it wasn't like we weren't Having conversations about it. Our money was combined, but we weren't talking about money. So it's like, if a bill comes. Yeah, I see it. I'll pay it. Firestone. Oh, that's a credit card. Okay, I'll pay it. You know Chevron, you have a credit card for your gas. That's kind of weird, but okay. Yeah, let's pay it express. You have a credit card? Foreclose. Oh, all right, I'll pay it. Student loans. Holy moly. Like that. How much are your student loans? Like, so that's how it started happening, is seeing the bills come in, and I was like. I remember one day, I was like, hey, I need to know exactly how much your student loans are because your bills are high. And he was like, oh. It was like, I think they're, like, around 120. Like, I remember. I remember we signed one for 120. So it was like, as I would ask him, I could tell he really didn't know. Like, he had an idea, but he really didn't know. And let me pause here.

[Jon (Host of the Doctor Joel DeLoney Show)]

That right there is an important thing that, like, we go through dating for four or five years. We are two or three, however long dated. We meet each other's families. We do holidays. We fall for each other. We go get married. We may do premarital counseling. We do all the stuff. And we don't know that part.

[Jade Warshaw]

No.

[Jon (Host of the Doctor Joel DeLoney Show)]

Right. I don't even know what I'm walking into. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It didn't even occur to any of us to ask that question.

[Jade Warshaw]

Yeah, that's a.

[Jon (Host of the Doctor Joel DeLoney Show)]

That's a wild thing, right?

[Jade Warshaw]

It is. It is.

[Jon (Host of the Doctor Joel DeLoney Show)]

And it tells me what's so backwards about how we do love now, which is, how do you feel first? And then every. And then the rest of it. Like, you say, like, we don't have to deal with reality because the only thing that matters is how we feel about each other. Yeah, right. No, no. There's a reality to this. Geez. So he doesn't know the number.

[Jade Warshaw]

He doesn't know the number. And, like, the more I asked him, like, the more I realized, like, oh, this is a pain point. Like, there's something there. And I kind of got to the point where I was like, are you keeping it from me? Like, do you really know and you're just not telling me? Because I could see that he was getting agitated about it, but truly, he was probably getting agitated because me being me was like, how much is. Like, how much are the loans? You know, so early on, I will be honest, like, early on, my personality versus his personality, I wasn't the most tactful. Okay. Like, I am going to say that. And so that didn't really do anything to help him want to divulge something very, like, vulnerable, like, hey, I have a lot of student loan debt. So I didn't help that process. And it wasn't until a couple of, like, really, like one or two years later, we'd gone. We had moved down to South Florida, and his grandfather had passed away and left him a little bit of money. It was supposed to be a lot of money, but because of the Great Recession, they cashed out at the bottom, and so it was like, crazy. Well, anyway, we were there at the house, and he had just gotten access to the money, and it was like, okay, we're gonna use this to pay off some student loans. And it was like $30,000. And. And I remember, like, hearing somebody, like, reading off, like, the different debts, and that kind of struck me as like, well, which one do we want to put this $30,000 on? Meanwhile, I'm like, I only have $30,000 of debt. Like that. I remember specifically, like, where I was sitting in the living room, that struck me. I was like, oh, there's more here than I thought. And so that's.

[Jon (Host of the Doctor Joel DeLoney Show)]

I remember being 22 or 25, like, 30,000 bucks is a million dollars.

[Jade Warshaw]

That's a lot.

[Jon (Host of the Doctor Joel DeLoney Show)]

That's a million dollars. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Jade Warshaw]

That's a ton.

[Jon (Host of the Doctor Joel DeLoney Show)]

Especially in a check. Someone.

[Jade Warshaw]

Yes. Because I was thinking, oh, he's going to get this money. Like, maybe we're going to these debts.

[Jon (Host of the Doctor Joel DeLoney Show)]

Yeah, yeah.

[Jade Warshaw]

No, no, no, no. Like, that. That was just a small piece. And that's when I realized it. So that was a. That was an eye opener moment for me that I didn't really share much with him because it was just. I'm like, around his family and I'm just like, picking up this information. It wasn't until we had moved into an apartment, and I remember just having, like, a moment of, we have no money. Like, something's wrong here. And so I was like, hey, I remember there's this guy Dave, like, he has a book, let's go to Barnes and Noble and get it. It was total money makeover workbook. Went to get it. And there's a part in there where you're supposed to, like, list out your debts. And, like, it's kind of like walking you through exercises. And, like, I still have the book. And you can see the point where it was like, no more of this. Like, The. The writing in the workbook just stopped. Because I remember in that moment, we were starting to list out the debt, and it was so overwhelming that it was like, if I see this number, I'm gonna give up.

[Jon (Host of the Doctor Joel DeLoney Show)]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Jade Warshaw]

And you can't give up.

[Jon (Host of the Doctor Joel DeLoney Show)]

But most do because it's so big.

[Jade Warshaw]

Yeah, yeah.

[Jon (Host of the Doctor Joel DeLoney Show)]

Because after 400,000, it's $5 million. I mean, it's. It's an. It's a monopoly money at that point. Right. I mean, it's like when you start writing down. I. It's funny you say that. I was in a Barnes and Noble when I went and got the work. That's where I win.

[Jade Warshaw]

Yeah. And.

[Jon (Host of the Doctor Joel DeLoney Show)]

But I guess the conversation I've never heard had is like, the pacing around the middle of the night, like the. Like the. I can't. I can't eat. And like, I remember Sheila, my wife, not knowing.

[Jade Warshaw]

Yeah.

[Jon (Host of the Doctor Joel DeLoney Show)]

I remember she would. She just would go to sleep.

[Jade Warshaw]

Yeah.

[Jon (Host of the Doctor Joel DeLoney Show)]

I was like, I don't. We don't have any money. You know what I mean? Like, I don't have. It was wild, right?

[Jade Warshaw]

I do know.

[Jon (Host of the Doctor Joel DeLoney Show)]

So how's. How's the reckoning conversation happen? Because there has to be, like, a. We're writing this down. Like, you take me back here. Because you're here now. Like, you're. You're there now. Like, you're looking at this workbook. Is Sam sitting with you?

[Jade Warshaw]

Yeah, we're sitting. We're sitting together in our apartment, and we're going through the numbers. And it was like, at a certain point, I was like, okay, close the book. We already know what we have to do. Like, we don't need to just sit and list this out and get more depressed. Like, you know what I'm saying? Like, probably the smartest thing I know. Like, over here, we teach. List all your debts. Write them all out. If I had written out all the debts that night, John, it would have been curtains. Like, that's it. Like, we're not. I don't know what that would have meant, but I think we would have been so overcome, I don't think we ever would have started. And so it was like, okay, forget that. Like, we just need to work and, like, make a lot of money. Like, we need to figure out ways to make money, because that's the only thing that's going to get us out of this. And so we came out of that. We came out of that knowing, okay, we're going to do this baby step thing. Our first course of action is figuring out how we can make More money. And then it kind of like, the way I think of it in my mind is like, then somebody turned the lights out, because right about then, we went to work on ships, and it was like we had had this thing in our mind that we were, like, ready break, like, looking each other in the eye. And then it was like, my grandfather died a little while later. Sam's dad died. And it was, like, dark for a couple of years.

[Jon (Host of the Doctor Joel DeLoney Show)]

Yeah.

[Jade Warshaw]

And, like, in the darkness, we were, like, toiling and, like, doing stuff. But there was. It wasn't like. It wasn't like that. It was like. We're just. It's like when you. Somebody calls you in the middle of the night, and. And you're just, like, putting your clothes on real quick. You, like, you don't even turn the lights on. You're just like.

[Jon (Host of the Doctor Joel DeLoney Show)]

But suddenly you.

[Jade Warshaw]

It was like doing that for.

[Jon (Host of the Doctor Joel DeLoney Show)]

You wake up in the car, and you're a mile away from your house.

[Jade Warshaw]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. And it was. And then it was like a couple years passed and the lights turned back on.

[Jon (Host of the Doctor Joel DeLoney Show)]

Okay.

[Jade Warshaw]

So it was like, okay.

[Jon (Host of the Doctor Joel DeLoney Show)]

Whenever. Whenever somebody dies in a. And two people are married and somebody passes away, kid or a parent, and ever they come over to my house and say, what do we do next? The first question I always have is, do y' all want to stay married? Because people grieve differently.

[Jade Warshaw]

Yeah.

[Jon (Host of the Doctor Joel DeLoney Show)]

And that's the tension. I can't believe you're not over this yet. I can't believe you haven't moved on yet. And that starts numbing behaviors that go like this. Right. How did y' all stay? Because that's a lot. On top of a lot. On top of a lot. Because as you're describing it, I'm realizing my marriage is not safe. I'm realizing this guy just pledged my life to. Oh. Is what. And I didn't know. And then I lose this man that is the paternal figure in my life, and then he loses that. That's a lot for a young couple to absorb. That's a lot for a couple married for 30 years to absorb.

[Jade Warshaw]

Yeah. I don't know that we did a good job of it. Like, I mean, I'm not going to sit here and be like, well, I just.

[Jon (Host of the Doctor Joel DeLoney Show)]

Every morning we.

[Jade Warshaw]

No, I mean, I tell you right now, like, sometimes I think back on it, and I'm like, I just didn't know how to handle it. It was a lot going on. Things I can't say in this room. Sure. And I don't. I didn't know what to do. I didn't. I mean, he didn't know what to do either, I think. I mean, at that point, totally staying alive. You're just, like, staying alive, man. Like, I mean, I love Sam, and that's all there is to it, man. And he loves me. And the best advice I ever got. And as. As. Like, I don't know. Like, as simple as it may sound, it was the best advice I ever read. Somebody didn't tell me I read it. I was like, you have to remember goodwill, and at the end of the day, you have to remember, like, this person I married. Are they. Do I really think, like. Because stuff is gonna happen all the time, right? Like, you hurt Sheila's feelings. Sheila hurts your feelings. You know, something's happened. At the end of the day, it's like, if I'm really honest with myself, do I really think this person's out to hurt me, or do I think that they have goodwill towards me and they're just struggling?

[Jon (Host of the Doctor Joel DeLoney Show)]

But somebody can have goodwill, and that doesn't make them safe to anchor into.

[Jade Warshaw]

It doesn't. But it does make. It make you not make them the bad guy.

[Jon (Host of the Doctor Joel DeLoney Show)]

Yeah.

[Jade Warshaw]

Yeah, right? Like, and that was the thing, I think he had to remember about me and I had to remember about him is, hey, I have goodwill towards you, and you have goodwill towards me. There are things in our past that have really jacked with how we are able to process problems. But at the end of the day, you're doing the best you can. I'm doing the best I can. And we might be, like, not able to be there for each other in the way that each of us needs right now, but no one's going anywhere. And that was one of the thing that we said. One of the things we said early on is, I'm not going anywhere. I. I'm just not. And I. I. And I knew that about him, too. And so it almost.

[Jon (Host of the Doctor Joel DeLoney Show)]

That can almost be a curse, bro. I'm like, I wish you would go. Right. Yeah. Yeah. There's so much here.

[Jade Warshaw]

Get rid of me.

[Jon (Host of the Doctor Joel DeLoney Show)]

And so I'm also. And he's not here to defend himself. I'm also. I cannot imagine the. The only word I can think of right now. I can't imagine the shame I would feel.

[Jade Warshaw]

Yeah.

[Jon (Host of the Doctor Joel DeLoney Show)]

Like, trying. Trying to say, like, I'm a husband, and we're not. We're gonna have to postpone having kids. We're gonna have to postpone this house. I'm gonna have to postpone this. I'm supposed to. It was a Problem financially, she's worse off because she's with me. Like, that would. I remember because emotionally, I was like that from my wife, yes, you are worse off because you're with a crazy guy.

[Jade Warshaw]

Yeah.

[Jon (Host of the Doctor Joel DeLoney Show)]

And that, like, I felt like every day I was waking up with already, like, a ruck bag on, you know.

[Jade Warshaw]

I'm saying that was my biggest. That shame was the biggest fear I had in our marriage.

[Jon (Host of the Doctor Joel DeLoney Show)]

His or yours?

[Jade Warshaw]

Mine. Because I saw it. And I mean, I'll say. When I was writing the book, this was the story. This was the part that I, That I, I, I knew I wanted to write about, but it was very hard because. And I, I said to Sam, I was like, hey, I'm putting this in here. He was like, yes. Because I think that this is what people feel. And they don't say it. Like, shame is such a. It's such a secret. Like, it's like it wants to be your biggest, like, your deepest, darkest secret. Right. That you're. You have become this identity. And even though, like, in the light of day or like, in conversations, it'd be like, all right, ready, Break. Like, we're on the same team. Like, we're paying off our debt. Da, da, da. I just. And I'll never. I'll just never forget this, John. Because it, it was like it went into my soul. We. Okay, so at the time, we were living in a townhouse. It was my mother in law's townhouse. She was letting us rent it at cost. And we had roommates. Roommates were living downstairs. We were living upstairs. And my husband was in the. You know, it was nighttime. We were getting ready for bed. He was in the bathroom brushing his teeth. And he was just. I was walking by the bathroom, and I could see him in the. In the mirror. He was just standing there brushing his teeth. But he was like. Like, his eyes were, like, gone.

[Jon (Host of the Doctor Joel DeLoney Show)]

Yeah.

[Jade Warshaw]

I mean, they were gone.

[Jon (Host of the Doctor Joel DeLoney Show)]

Yeah. Again.

[Jade Warshaw]

I just never saw that.

[Jon (Host of the Doctor Joel DeLoney Show)]

Yeah.

[Jade Warshaw]

I'd never seen that level of despair. And I. In my mind, I was like, it's my job to make sure he keeps his life.

[Jon (Host of the Doctor Joel DeLoney Show)]

Yeah.

[Jade Warshaw]

This is my job. Yeah. And that. It was my job for, like, five years. And I remember one time I told him I was like, the hardest conversation I had with him. I was like, I gotta. My. I feel like I can't carry this anymore. Like, I feel like. And he. Because he didn't know. I never said anything, but, like, I was afraid. Like, I was like, man, he doesn't see his. I just was. I just told him I was like, listen, I'm afraid you're gonna take your life, like, flat out.

[Jon (Host of the Doctor Joel DeLoney Show)]

Yeah.

[Jade Warshaw]

And he was like, I understand that.

[Jon (Host of the Doctor Joel DeLoney Show)]

Yeah.

[Jade Warshaw]

And so saying that stuff out loud, that's the stuff. That's the stuff that eats you alive.

[Jon (Host of the Doctor Joel DeLoney Show)]

Yeah.

[Jade Warshaw]

And that's what shame does. It makes you feel like you're just not worth being.

[Jon (Host of the Doctor Joel DeLoney Show)]

Yeah.

[Jade Warshaw]

And that you've ruined everything and that your very existence is messing up somebody else's existence.

[Jon (Host of the Doctor Joel DeLoney Show)]

Yeah. You're a burden.

[Jade Warshaw]

You're a burden.

[Jon (Host of the Doctor Joel DeLoney Show)]

Yeah.

[Jade Warshaw]

And that's just not true.

[Jon (Host of the Doctor Joel DeLoney Show)]

Yeah.

[Jade Warshaw]

It's just not. And that was the hardest part. But that's not in the numbers. Right?

[Jon (Host of the Doctor Joel DeLoney Show)]

That's. That's the thing.

[Jade Warshaw]

That's not in the math.

[Jon (Host of the Doctor Joel DeLoney Show)]

Right. It's not in the math.

[Jade Warshaw]

And that's. That for me is what's been missing from all of this. I'm like, bro, there's people on the other side of this. Yeah.

[Jon (Host of the Doctor Joel DeLoney Show)]

All right. Let me tell you about Hallow, the number one Christian prayer and meditation app in the world. Y' all know this. My life is chaotic. I'm a dad, I'm a husband, I'm a speaker, I'm a writer. I'm all over the place.

[Jade Warshaw]

And.

[Jon (Host of the Doctor Joel DeLoney Show)]

And every morning I like to start and recenter myself in the same way. I listen to the daily gospel on Hallow every morning in the car. It lets me pause, breathe. And while the cars are whipping by me or I'm whipping by them, it allows me to settle into my day. It's one of those non negotiable starts. It's a reset button for my head and for my heart. And then at night, sometimes when my brain's still spinning, I'll put on one of Hallow's sleep meditations or a nighttime devotional. This is how things slow, slow down. And I quit fighting my own thoughts and I close my day with something positive. Hallow has daily devotionals, thoughtful meditations about prayer and leading a spiritual life all in one place. It helps me pause and reflect instead of just reacting to everything. Bottom line, Hallow helps me make space for peace with ancient wisdom. And I need that. We all do. So if you want to anchor your day, I want you to go check out Hallow right now. When you sign [e-mail] Deloney, you get three months of the app for free. That's Hallow H A l l o w.com DeLoney for three full months for free. Here's where for me. And I've told you this privately, but you're a person that I Hold what I would call anchored respect for. And I reserve that for very few people. And the cultural air we breathe is. Whatever it is, it's not fair. That's the air we breathe. It's not fair. Shouldn't happened. And because it's not fair, what's fair in anything that makes me uncomfortable or anything that shouldn't have happened that way from I shouldn't have been abused as a kid. You're right. It's not fair to my dad. Worked long hours to put food on table that wasn't whatever all the way to. Hey. We were two dumb 18, 19, 20, 21 year olds who signed up for a million different things because the college counselor just kept telling us to sign up and sign up, and we did, and we had a fun four or five years and now we have half a million dollars. It's not fair. Or I took this, I did this, I did. Like, it's not fair. And so I'm gonna war against the system. I'm gonna war against these people. I'm gonna do everything but look in the mirror and say, I think I can. Or regardless of whose quote, unquote fault it is, I'm the one who has to choose what I'm gonna do next. Looking at your husband, that's my show. Wouldn't exist if people didn't get there and leave.

[Jade Warshaw]

Well, what's the alternative? Like, that's my. That was always my show.

[Jon (Host of the Doctor Joel DeLoney Show)]

Exists because people take the alternative path. Like, oh, I'm not handling that. That's your problem. Or you shouldn't have, or you need to go get help instead of saying, all right, for the next few years, like, I'm going to be your oxygen tank because we're going to get through this together. Right.

[Jade Warshaw]

Well, that's when I had to go back to the childhood of this is what I do.

[Jon (Host of the Doctor Joel DeLoney Show)]

Gotcha.

[Jade Warshaw]

This is my job. My job is to make everything okay. Okay.

[Jon (Host of the Doctor Joel DeLoney Show)]

Yeah.

[Jade Warshaw]

And I know, like, listen, I know how to wear that hat. And so I did.

[Jon (Host of the Doctor Joel DeLoney Show)]

Would you do that differently?

[Jade Warshaw]

No, it was necessary. It was necessary growing up, and it was necessary then.

[Jon (Host of the Doctor Joel DeLoney Show)]

Okay.

[Jade Warshaw]

And one of the great things that my dad taught me is he always told us, you're the. You're the leader. When you walk in the room, you're the leader. That's what he always told us. And so you should carry yourself as such.

[Jon (Host of the Doctor Joel DeLoney Show)]

Gotcha.

[Jade Warshaw]

And so in those moments, there's a part in my body that goes, you're the leader.

[Jon (Host of the Doctor Joel DeLoney Show)]

Yeah. Do you ever get to turn that off?

[Jade Warshaw]

I'd like to Turn it off more.

[Jon (Host of the Doctor Joel DeLoney Show)]

Yeah.

[Jade Warshaw]

But not because of him now, but just in life.

[Jon (Host of the Doctor Joel DeLoney Show)]

I'm saying, like, be with people instead of leading all the time, right?

[Jade Warshaw]

Yeah. I wish I could. Listen, if I'm in the place that I can.

[Jon (Host of the Doctor Joel DeLoney Show)]

Yeah.

[Jade Warshaw]

Like, what was that? What was the trend that was going that was like, I don't know. Maybe Kelly knows. When it was like, women were like, I want to be on my softer side. Or it was like, they want to be in the season of, like, softness. I can't remember what it was called. If I can be in my season of soft, I'm going to call it season of softness. If I can be in that. Yes. Hello. Like, I'm a woman. I would love to just be somebody. Put a warm blanket on me, you know what I'm saying? Like, rub my back, you know? If I cannot be in that role, I love it. But if I have to trust and.

[Jon (Host of the Doctor Joel DeLoney Show)]

Believe, like, I will.

[Jade Warshaw]

We're getting into it.

[Jon (Host of the Doctor Joel DeLoney Show)]

So together. Yeah. There's a math problem. We got to go work 500 jobs. We're y'.

[Jade Warshaw]

All.

[Jon (Host of the Doctor Joel DeLoney Show)]

Y' all are like world class musicians. Y' all hit the road and y' all perform for everybody ever. Y' all go do this. So there's a. There's a math problem there, and y'.

[Jade Warshaw]

All.

[Jon (Host of the Doctor Joel DeLoney Show)]

Y' all go out solving that math problem, and it's literally, you and I talk about this all the time. You can spend less, you can make more. I wish it was more complex than that, but that's really it. We're not gonna sleep. We're not gonna have furniture. We're not gonna do all these things. And again, it is quote, unquote, not fair that we're newlyweds. We're this talented. Y' all are two of the most talented people I. I know.

[Jade Warshaw]

Thank you.

[Jon (Host of the Doctor Joel DeLoney Show)]

Y' all are both good humans. It shouldn't be like that. Right. And because we have this reality, this math problem, we have to live in a condo that we're bumming off his mom and we gotta have roommates. Should it be that way? No. Is it? Yes. Right. There's a reality to that first season.

[Jade Warshaw]

Right.

[Jon (Host of the Doctor Joel DeLoney Show)]

Y' all had about this math problem. There has to be time in year six. Yep. Y' all did this for eight years, almost a decade, because that's how big the hole y' all had done. There has to be a moment. You're 6, and you're like, no, I can't stay on a workout plan for 45 days.

[Jade Warshaw]

Right. Well, I mean, don't get me wrong. Like, there's parts where you're.

[Jon (Host of the Doctor Joel DeLoney Show)]

You had to lean over sometime and just be like, I hate you. There had to have been those moments.

[Jade Warshaw]

Yes. But at the same time, it's like. And this, I'm saying this, but I think you'll know what I mean. Like, human beings are extremely adaptive. Like, we're so adaptive. So whatever you set as the new norm becomes the new norm. Whether you. And that can be just as dysfunctional as you want it to be. Like, you know what I'm saying? There is part of that that was like, hey, we live with roommates. This is just our new norm.

[Jon (Host of the Doctor Joel DeLoney Show)]

That's our life.

[Jade Warshaw]

Honey, I'm home. You know, you just walk in and.

[Jon (Host of the Doctor Joel DeLoney Show)]

It'S like, it's our life.

[Jade Warshaw]

It's our life. And then you, you. And then maybe you get just like anything else, you get sick of that for a while, so you let the roommates go. And now you're paying your own rent and what do you do? Oh, let's sell one of the cars. We're a one car family. First few weeks, it sucks. And then you get used to it and it's just, this is my life.

[Jon (Host of the Doctor Joel DeLoney Show)]

Gotta come pick me up.

[Jade Warshaw]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. So there's part of it where I will be honest. I think just like human nature kicks in and you're like, this is just. This is just my life. Like, you know, it's kind of like if I'm trying to think of an example. But yeah, you just get used to stuff. So I don't wanna.

[Jon (Host of the Doctor Joel DeLoney Show)]

There's some research about, like, baseline, which is like winning a whole bunch of money. It's awesome for a bit. It's extraordinary for a bit. And then you kind of settle back into or like getting in a tragic accident and like losing a foot. Like, it's a catastrophic dip.

[Jade Warshaw]

And then a normalcy sets in.

[Jon (Host of the Doctor Joel DeLoney Show)]

This is my life.

[Jade Warshaw]

Yeah, right.

[Jon (Host of the Doctor Joel DeLoney Show)]

This is my life.

[Jade Warshaw]

And I mean, I. Yeah, like, I'll be honest when I think about that time, like I said, there was a time period where the lights were off, and then there was a time period where it was like, hey, let's be honest on the other side of this. We traveled the world. Like, we went to over a hundred countries. Like, we got to live our dream life in entertainment. Like, there were. I thank God that he allowed that balance because a lot of times I think that's the only thing that kept things right side up is that there was this really sucky side over here. But then there was this really great side of how many People have a career that they loved. I loved my work, loved it. You know, like I, I was doing, I was living a dream on that side of my life. A lot of people can't say that. So there was a lot of blessings. Like I'm not going to sit up here and act like it was just like, oh, it was the worst thing ever. No, like the stuff that sucked, sucked and the stuff that was awesome was awesome. And they're both, like, they're both true.

[Jon (Host of the Doctor Joel DeLoney Show)]

That's one of the most important things Mark therapist ever told me was I was ranting raving about a family member and she stopped me and she said, before we go further, you have to say five things that that person gave you. And her line was, you have to blame fair. You got to blame fair. You gotta, you gotta blame the good stuff in your life for what you got was good. And that has to go. Like it was both. It was right?

[Jade Warshaw]

Yeah, yeah. Like my church, like I could go on like my church that I was at best ever miss them to this day. Like, I have the best people in my life. I still do. Like so, yeah, like that, that part was amazing. Had some of the best friends I've ever had. Yeah.

[Jon (Host of the Doctor Joel DeLoney Show)]

So I've got a 15 year old and a 9 year old. You know, I'm like, you met him. If I could leave them with anything, it would be no matter what happens, you can. And you might have to get other people. You might have to like have seasons where you got roommates in your new like you, you have to do hard stuff. Yeah, but I want their internal compass to be. I can. You've got somehow it's instilled in you, whether it's genetic or whether it was dad as a coach, whatever it was, how you've turned like what I would call childhood performance. Kids do what keeps them safe. Right. One kid became a clown. One kid makes straight A's. One kid like, yeah, you know what keeps you safe.

[Jade Warshaw]

Yeah.

[Jon (Host of the Doctor Joel DeLoney Show)]

But you turn that into, this is how I operate. This is how I help millions of people. How do I. What lessons would you tell me? Like I'm starting to pass that along to my kids.

[Jade Warshaw]

What lesson would I tell you to pass along to your kids?

[Jon (Host of the Doctor Joel DeLoney Show)]

No, no, like give me some, some, some meat on the bone that I can. When my kids experience X, I can say, like, I can teach them. No, no, you can. What does that look like? I'm trying to replicate my kids in you. That's what I'm trying to do.

[Jade Warshaw]

It's a level of Endurance. I just think, like, when you do something, I mean, I go back to sports on this. Sometimes in my mind, if I'm doing something tough physically, I tell myself, like, I can do anything for a minute. Like, I can do anything. I can let it burn for a minute. I can let it hurt for a minute. I can be uncomfortable, be uncomfortable for a minute. Like. And I think it's the same thing in life, like, knowing that it really is. I mean, it's like stuff that grandma would say, but, like, this too shall pass type thing, and you've just gotta keep. Keep going. Like, there's just. I'm not trying to be trite, but there's just no excuse. Like, there's no substitute for endurance. There's just not. Like, that is part of life.

[Jon (Host of the Doctor Joel DeLoney Show)]

Well, you're like the curve buster. When people call into our show and they're like, I can't. And you're like, yeah, hold my beer. Yes.

[Jade Warshaw]

You can't.

[Jon (Host of the Doctor Joel DeLoney Show)]

Right?

[Jade Warshaw]

Because you can. Because you can. And no one is gonna say that you're gonna feel great. Like, Right. Like that it's going to hurt, or it could be painful, or it could.

[Jon (Host of the Doctor Joel DeLoney Show)]

Be uncomfortable, or that it's not. Not fair that you're not actually a victim to think you are. And what am I going to do now?

[Jade Warshaw]

Well, yeah, I think the fair thing, and this is one thing that I had to kind of adapt, is if you're thinking about fairness, you're thinking about a competition. Competitions are meant to. They're set up to be fair. Everybody starts at the same starting line. Nobody gets performance enhancing supplements. Everybody has the same finish line. Everybody gets the same amount of time to train. Whether you use it or not, like, that's fair. That ain't life.

[Jon (Host of the Doctor Joel DeLoney Show)]

It's not the world. Yeah.

[Jade Warshaw]

It's not life. It's not. And the moment you start, like, letting yourself even go into that, like, that's like, it's.

[Jon (Host of the Doctor Joel DeLoney Show)]

I never thought about that. But that's an opting out of reality.

[Jade Warshaw]

It's opting out reality. I'm like, what is my race? What's mine? Because the truth is, like, you might start and the gun goes. And you have to immediately go straight uphill on a dirt road, you know, in the snow, like, right. Other people, they get to run straight out along the beach, running downhill. Some people run downhill. Right. You know what I'm saying? Everybody's race is different. But if you're starting and you're looking over here and you're going over there. Yeah, you're gonna go well, that's not fair. But if you're just like, what is my course? Okay. What's the best way for me to finish my course? Cool.

[Jon (Host of the Doctor Joel DeLoney Show)]

Would you recommend to your friends? Nope. That's not personal enough. You're. You have an amazing son, amazing daughter. They're real young. They come home from college at 21, and they're like, mom, I've got somebody. Are you gonna encourage them to go get married?

[Jade Warshaw]

I mean, it depends. Tell me more.

[Jon (Host of the Doctor Joel DeLoney Show)]

I'm, I'm, I'm just fascinated by the, of why people are still getting married.

[Jade Warshaw]

Oh, okay. Okay. We're shifting. I am a.

[Jon (Host of the Doctor Joel DeLoney Show)]

You've seen the high and the low.

[Jade Warshaw]

I'm a proponent of marriage 100%.

[Jon (Host of the Doctor Joel DeLoney Show)]

Yeah.

[Jade Warshaw]

Like, I, I, I believe in marriage.

[Jon (Host of the Doctor Joel DeLoney Show)]

I, Someone can hear your story and be like, I don't want to be attached to that for.

[Jade Warshaw]

Yeah, you do. Yeah, you do.

[Jon (Host of the Doctor Joel DeLoney Show)]

That's the question.

[Jade Warshaw]

Yeah, you do. Yeah, you do. Because here's the thing. It's a. Gosh, I'm trying to say this without sounding like, super like, no, be super like.

[Jon (Host of the Doctor Joel DeLoney Show)]

You are super like, so how else.

[Jade Warshaw]

Are you supposed to become who you're supposed to become is my point. Like, how else you think you're just gonna go out here and just be by yourself and everything's going to be simple and everything is going to be comfortable and everything's going to be the way you like it? Like, Netflix lied to you. Like, they, they made, they curated a perfect thing for you and you got used to that. That is not life. Like, that's just, that's not how it works. You need to get in there. Like, nothing is more fulfilling long term than going in and getting your hands dirty with people. Life is messy. Let me tell you something. I just started being my mom's caretaker. There is nothing more messy than that. But it is the biggest blessing of your life. If you can get into people's life and you can get into the darkness and the hard stuff and the crying and the, the, the, the, the, the burdensome part. That's the part that is like, this is life. Like, I, I had a pastor buddy once. Several of my friends are pastors. And this is, it's going to sound like, oh, yeah, well, duh. But when you really stop and think about it, it's true. You're a pastor. You, you're there for all the biggest moments of people's lives. You're there when a baby is born. You're there when people get married. You're there when people get divorced and you're there when people die. If you want to not get into those dirty things, you're missing out on life. Those are the biggest moments of life. And I'm like, oh, sorry, I can't cuss on your show.

[Jon (Host of the Doctor Joel DeLoney Show)]

I'm like, you can cuss away, dude.

[Jade Warshaw]

Yes. I'm so glad I was there when Sam was experiencing his loss with his dad. I'm so glad I was there when he was thinking about his own life. I'm so glad I was there. You know what I mean? Like, why would I change that? That's the. That's the. That is the beef of life. Like, that's the meaty part. Yeah. And to. To. To hold someone when they're crying, to hold someone when they're sick. Why would you take that away? Like, why would you want to go through a life without that? It's hard in the moment, but it makes you. It makes you a person that can. I can feel this.

[Jon (Host of the Doctor Joel DeLoney Show)]

Yeah. Not just on the other side. Celebrating by yourself.

[Jade Warshaw]

Yeah.

[Jon (Host of the Doctor Joel DeLoney Show)]

When you first came here, I remember, like, we walked off stage one night and the event we did went awesome. And you mentioned something like, but Sam's not here. Like, he's always on. He's been on stage with me for the last decade. He's not. He's not on stage with me. But there was like, this, a. A, you know, like, you cross a finish line alone, and you're like, yeah, right. Like, so it's like doing the hard stuff, but also the good stuff is.

[Jade Warshaw]

Yeah.

[Jon (Host of the Doctor Joel DeLoney Show)]

So much richer to celebrate with.

[Jade Warshaw]

You need, you want people. Like, people are not perfect and they're not easy and neither are you. Like, that's just. That is life. Like, I don't know why you would want to do life alone or why you would want to do life, quote, unquote, the easy way. Whatever that means to you.

[Jon (Host of the Doctor Joel DeLoney Show)]

It's just that I think it's the bill of goods we've been sold that is the point of life, is to not be uncomfortable.

[Jade Warshaw]

That's a lot.

[Jon (Host of the Doctor Joel DeLoney Show)]

We can solve for everything. And finding no life, the. The good stuff is on through it, but on the other side of discomfort.

[Jade Warshaw]

I mean, I've said this before. I would argue that the person that doesn't want to go through anything tough is the person who's immature. Like. Like struggles, tests, trials. Like, that builds maturity.

[Jon (Host of the Doctor Joel DeLoney Show)]

Yeah, but I don't want that. I don't want my dad to die. I don't want to, like, be abused as a kid. I don't want these days.

[Jade Warshaw]

No. I Mean, I mean, but it's like that's. That's a deeper extreme. But.

[Jon (Host of the Doctor Joel DeLoney Show)]

But the recovery, it does.

[Jade Warshaw]

It does build something in you. Nothing.

[Jon (Host of the Doctor Joel DeLoney Show)]

Healing, nightmare. But we're gonna go through it.

[Jade Warshaw]

And nothing's wasted. Like, let's not forget that part.

[Jon (Host of the Doctor Joel DeLoney Show)]

Yeah.

[Jade Warshaw]

Like, nothing is.

[Jon (Host of the Doctor Joel DeLoney Show)]

That's a refrain I use often. Like, whatever, something awful's happening. Like this. I won't waste this.

[Jade Warshaw]

Yes, nothing's wasted. And. And it gets to a point to see that. Like, that. That's probably one of the hardest things to believe before you've gotten to it. Right? Like, you have to. Like, there's a. A faith that takes place of that. Like, before you get to the point that you can, I don't know, say it, like, as. As confidently as you or I is saying it right now. Right. That's hard. But when you get to it, it's like, oh, okay, that was really sucky. Maybe I wouldn't wish that on my worst enemy.

[Jon (Host of the Doctor Joel DeLoney Show)]

However, here's what I'm gonna do next.

[Jade Warshaw]

Came out of it. And here's what I'm gonna do next.

[Jon (Host of the Doctor Joel DeLoney Show)]

And here's what I'm gonna be next. That's awesome, dude. Thank you for coming. Hang out. Thank you for being my friend.

[Jade Warshaw]

You're welcome. Thank you for having me.

[Jon (Host of the Doctor Joel DeLoney Show)]

It was awesome. It was state of trouble. See you.

[Jade Warshaw]

I'll do my best.

[Jon (Host of the Doctor Joel DeLoney Show)]

We're going to hit the road. Spring again. I can't wait to thank you. Montana Knife Company makes the best knives on the planet, period. I'm full into hunting season, and my family has been celebrating cooking season with tons of people in our house. And everyone in my home is using Montana Knife Company knives. Between the woods and the kitchen, I need knives that actually hold up. That's why I bought my wife the chef's knife set for Christmas a few years ago. She uses it every day, and I have a number of their knives for my outdoor fishing and hunting adventures. Their knives are designed, tested, and built by real hunters and real cooks. When you pick one up, you can feel the quality. They're proudly made in the usa, and they're razor sharp, right out of the box and tough enough to last a lifetime. Montana Knife Co. Guarantees that my grandkids are going to fight over these knives someday. And if it ever needs sharpening, just send it back and they'll do it for free. Give the outdoorsman and the cook in your life a knife that they'll love and actually use. Go to montanaknifecompany.com to see what's available right now. You won't be disappointed. That's montanaknifecompany.com all right, that was my conversation with my friend Jade Warshaw, talking about what no one tells you about money. Brand new book. Jade's the real deal. She's a real deal. Her husband Sam's a good friend of mine. Like, they're the real deals. And this book is on pre sale right now. If you've never written a book, you don't know how important buying the book in pre sale actually is. And if you're interested in it, go get it now for pre sale and they'll ship it to you the day it releases. But it releases January 6th. Go check it out. Follow Jade on all the social media platforms. And she is preparing an amazing new show that will be coming out next year. And I want you all to check that out. But we'll talk about that more later when it comes. Listen, whatever you're going through, you're not alone. I promise you. Even when it feels like you are, you're not a lot of other people going through it, too. There's a light at the end of that tunnel, no matter how dim it looks. And I want you to grab this book. I love you guys. Thank you. Make good choices. Be kind to each other and be kind to yourself. All right, let's talk about your marriage. Right now. We have February and October weekends on sale for the money in Marriage Getaway. It's the best marriage retreat on the planet. Tickets start at 740, nine bucks a couple. Get [e-mail] getaway.