She Cheated on Me and Gave Me an STI

Summary

The Dr. John Delony Show: “She Cheated on Me and Gave Me an STI”

Podcast: The Dr. John Delony Show (Ramsey Network)
Air Date: October 10, 2025
Host: Dr. John Delony
Main Theme: Real, caller-driven conversations about relationships, betrayal, self-worth, and navigating toxic situations.

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Brief Overview

This episode confronts deep issues of betrayal, toxic relationships, marital trust, and personal boundaries. Dr. John Delony takes calls from listeners coping with painful relationships—ranging from cheating and transmission of STIs to emotional neglect, addiction, and cycles of misery. Through clear, sometimes bracing advice, Dr. Delony emphasizes self-worth, the necessity of personal boundaries, and the urgent need to break free from destructive patterns. The tone is direct, empathetic, and unflinchingly honest, providing both tough love and supportive next steps for listeners in crisis.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Jared’s Relationship Crisis: Betrayal & STI

(00:05–13:12)

• Caller Background:
  Jared describes meeting a woman four years ago he thought he’d marry. Early in the relationship, she cheated, resulting in Jared contracting herpes for life. Despite repeated betrayals and the trauma of living with an STI, Jared struggles to leave the relationship—a pattern that continues even after significant emotional and financial losses.

• Dr. Delony’s Response:

  • Self-Worth & Boundaries:
    Dr. Delony repeatedly calls out Jared’s lack of self-respect and highlights the destructive cycle he’s stuck in.
    • “I care and love this man named Jared in Nashville, Tennessee, in my neighborhood. I love this guy. I respect him. Where is that voice?” (03:41)
  • Unfixable Situation:
    Advises that the relationship is untenable, as Jared’s partner has a clear pattern:
    • “You have a paper sack with a rattlesnake in it. You can't get mad at the snake. That's what it does. It bites. And you keep putting your hand back in there.” (04:08)
  • Letting Go of False Hope:
    Emphasizes Jared cannot change his partner or control her choices:
    • “You don't have that power. You can't change her. She has established who she is.” (04:24)
  • Breaking the Cycle:
    Points out that staying is a choice:
    • “You're so transfixed with this woman that you've given her common sense. You've given her your health, you've given her your soul. You're a living babysitter for her. You're a meal ticket for her and you're a punching bag for her.” (07:34)
  • Analogy of Intervention:
    Sometimes you stop what’s causing harm even if you don’t fully understand it:
    • “In medicine, there's a rule...even if we don't know why that medicine is making them worse, we stop the making them worse part...So...when someone's beating you down, that's not the moment to figure out why the punches are coming. You have to get away from the fight.” (09:49)
  • Readiness for Change:
    Dr. Delony concludes Jared isn’t ready to make the hard choice, but promises support when he is:
    • “When you're ready for that, my man, you call me and I'll walk with you on the way out...But you're not there yet.” (12:34)

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2. Lynn’s Marriage: Trust Broken by Secret Pornography Addiction

(15:02–32:05)

• Caller Background:
  Lynn, married for 30 years, feels betrayed by her husband’s longstanding pornography use and secretive behavior. She describes repeated instances of catching him in lies and feeling emotionally abandoned, particularly during her pregnancies.

• Dr. Delony’s Response:

  • This Isn’t About Lynn:
    Emphasizes that her husband’s addiction is not about Lynn’s desirability or actions:
    • “This hasn't ever been about you other than you had a fantasy about the man you were with, and you ignored signal after a signal after signal...” (21:46)
  • Choosing Misery:
    Acknowledges Lynn has “exposed a behavior” and is now actively choosing to remain miserable unless steps are taken:
    • “You've lost trust in yourself.” (23:49)
  • Demanding a Roadmap for Rebuilding Trust:
    Dr. Delony advocates for clear, actionable measures, e.g.,
    -“That means no Internet for six months...flip phone...no social media accounts or I'm linked to every one of them...Whatever will allow you to reestablish trust.” (24:55)
  • Giving ‘Lynn’ a Vote:
    Encourages Lynn to set hard personal boundaries:
    • “When are you going to give Lynn a vote?” (28:11)
    • “Today, Lynn gets a vote. And here's what that means. If you lie again, you're out of my home...” (28:29)
  • Facing the Personal Cost:
    Points out how years of denial have eroded Lynn’s sense of self:
    • “Every time you do this, you bury a part of yourself a little bit deeper...” (29:12)
  • Next Steps:
    Recommends radical honesty with her husband and children, and making “Lynn” her own priority for perhaps the first time.

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3. Mara’s Marital Burnout: Emotional Exhaustion & Disconnection

(33:50–49:41)

• Caller Background:
  Mara, disabled and a mother of special-needs children, feels overwhelmed, unsupported, and resentful in her marriage after years of hardship and her husband’s emotional withdrawal.

• Dr. Delony’s Response:

  • Recognizing the Mutual Prison:
    Notes both partners are trapped:
    • “You have built a prison for yourselves. And here's the prison: we have to homeschool. I can't work, so I have to run two businesses...And at the same time, he's probably sitting there thinking, ‘I have to work full time...keep the lights on.’” (45:06)
  • Cycle of Resentment:
    Explains how couples can become locked in patterns of disappointment and mutual discomfort.
    • “I'm uncomfortable. I'm numbing out. I'm going to try to fix your discomfort. You didn't do it right. I'm numbing out and it just happens this way.” (44:02)
  • Disrupting the Pattern—Radical Reset:
    Advises one partner must courageously break the cycle:
    • “The only way I've ever seen that cycle disrupted is when one person says, ‘I'm not living like this anymore. I'm swiping the deck clean. I have co-created this with you. I want to build a new marriage. Will you build it with me? Because I'm going to change.’” (45:38)
  • Concrete Tools:
    Offers resources:
    • Financial Peace University and the Every Dollar app for financial help.
    • “Building a Non Anxious Life” book for a new relational framework.
    • “I want to build a new marriage. Are you in? Which will be the scariest question anybody asks. That’s my hope for you, sister.” (47:22)

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4. Listener Email: Outgrowing Old Friendships Drenched in Misery

(52:14–56:12)

• Listener Situation:
  Nicole asks if she’s selfish for distancing herself from old friends whose conversations are filled with negativity while she’s in a happy life stage.

• Key Points:

  • It’s Not Wrong to Seek Joy:
    Dr. Delony validates her choice and explains the concept of “co-rumination.”
    • “Your friends don’t want your support. They want your co-misery.” (53:23)
    • “It just is a reality that y’alls lives have diverged, and you’re going to lean towards joy and they’re going to lean towards misery...” (53:54)
  • Letting Go is Part of Life:
    Kelly, the show producer, echoes the need to sometimes gently let old friendships fade, especially when they become emotionally draining.
  • Crabs in a Bucket Analogy:
    Kelly shares:
    • “They’ll pull each other down if one tries to climb out...” (55:24)
  • Choosing Joy, Even If It Means Walking Alone:
    • “Head towards Joy. And if people don’t want to go with you, it can be a lonely trip...but I promise there are other people on that path.” (55:54)

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• “Where is your self-respect?” – Dr. John Delony (03:32)
• “You have a paper sack with a rattlesnake in it. You can't get mad at the snake. That's what it does. It bites.” – Dr. John Delony (04:08)
• “I'm not telling you anything you don't know. I just can't.” – Dr. John Delony (09:10)
• “When are you going to give Lynn a vote?” – Dr. John Delony (28:11)
• “Every time you do this, you bury a part of yourself a little bit deeper.” – Dr. John Delony (29:12)
• “You have built a prison for yourselves.” – Dr. John Delony (45:06)
• “Will you build it with me? Because I'm going to change.” – Dr. John Delony (45:38)
• “Your friends don’t want your support. They want your co-misery.” – Dr. John Delony (53:23)
• “You give your kids a vote. You give the community a vote. ... When are you going to give Lynn a vote?” – Dr. John Delony (28:11)

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Timestamps for Key Segments

• [00:05–13:12] – Jared’s call: Relationship betrayal, self-worth, and breaking toxic chains.
• [15:02–32:05] – Lynn’s call: Marriage, trust, and hidden addictions.
• [33:50–49:41] – Mara’s call: Overwhelm and emotional disconnect in marriage.
• [52:14–56:12] – Nicole’s email: Letting go of miserable friendships and seeking joy.

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Summary

This episode exemplifies Dr. John Delony’s “real talk” approach to messy, complex relationship and life challenges. Whether dealing with infidelity, lifelong secrets, paralyzing hurt, or the grief of outgrowing friends, the message is consistent: healing begins with reclaiming self-worth and making bold, sometimes uncomfortable choices. Listeners are reminded that while support and guidance are available, true change requires personal courage—the willingness to say “I’m worth more than this,” to leave the boxing ring, and to finally give themselves the vote that has long been denied.

Transcript

[Jared]

I met the girl that I thought I was gonna marry, but as time went on, she ended up sleeping with another guy in the same night, and she ended up giving me general herpes for life. And she was saying that the reason she cheated on me or whatever is because I wasn't there for her.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Listen. Stop.

[John (Host)]

What up, what up, what up? This is John with the Dr. John DeLoney show, taking your call on your mental and emotional health and your relationships and whatever you got going on in your life. Go to john deloney.com, ask a s.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

K. And please, please, please hit the.

[John (Host)]

Subscribe button wherever you are watching or.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Listening to this show.

[John (Host)]

All right, let's get on the street.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

To Nashville right here in town and talk to Jared.

[John (Host)]

Hey, Jared. What's up, dude?

[Jared]

Hey, how's it going, Dr. John?

[John (Host)]

I'm good, man.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

What are you up to?

[Jared]

My call. Oh, you know, just working. Trying to get through all the troubles.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

How can I help, man?

[Jared]

So I've got a huge. It's huge backstory. I'm gonna try and keep it as concise as possible and line it up to the original question as much as possible here. I don't know really how to make concise, but I'm gonna try, so bear with me. So basically, I met the girl that I thought I was gonna marry about four years ago. And it started off, you know, amazing. And it was. It was a rough time in her life, and I just wanted to be a friend. But, you know, things escalated very quickly, yada, yada, yada. And clearly she. She was ready for the relationship. And I had told her, I was like, you know, I think we should hold off on this a little bit and take some time. But as time went on, she. I didn't commit to her in, like, the first two months because I'd never had a girlfriend before, and I was scared, and I didn't want to bring any pain or anything onto her because of how damaged she was already. And then what happened was she ended up sleeping with another guy in the same night, and she ended up giving me general herpes for life. And that kind of broke me as a man.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

And just as a person, forget as a man. You have to gender it. That's just awful.

[Jared]

Yeah.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Yeah.

[Jared]

And so I've been living with that. That broke me. And then it kind of killed the relationship because of what happened. She lied about it for months, acting like she had no idea what went on. She felt bad initially, and then now it's like all the blame shifted on me. Two, like a Year and a half or so after that, after she. Wait, why.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Why are you still talking to her?

[Jared]

I don't know, man. I. I guess I'm just, like, sitting here, like, holding on to the hope that was. I'm not.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

What hope? Dude, I got.

[John (Host)]

I mean, y' all were together for.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Two months, and she slept with another dude in the same night she was with you and gave you a sexually transmitted infection, like, forever.

[Jared]

Yeah, I just feel so low. Like, I'm just. I'm just dead inside. And then it just. Like every time something good happens, things get good for a couple months, and then she, like, she talks to another man.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Hey, I'm done talking about her. Where is your self respect?

[Jared]

I don't know.

[John (Host)]

Like, this idea.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

I care and love this man named Jared in Nashville, Tennessee, in my neighborhood. I love this guy. I respect him. Where is.

[John (Host)]

Where is that voice?

[Jared]

I don't know. I like, whenever all this stuff happened, like, it just keeps pouring salt in my wounds. I'm so down that. No, but I don't even.

[John (Host)]

You keep taking a wound and you unbandage it, and you hand it right back to her, and she's like, okay.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

And she pours salt back into it.

[Jared]

Yeah.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

It's like you have a. You have a paper sack with a rattlesnake in it. You can't get mad at the snake. That's what it does. It bites. And you keep putting your hand back in there. That's who she is. She's established that over and over and over again.

[Jared]

Because I'm just. I just hope and pray that she changes, and then it just keeps coming back.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

You don't have that power. You can't change her. She has established who she is.

[Mara]

And.

[Jared]

She was saying that the reason she cheated on me or whatever is because, bro, I wasn't there for her.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Listen, listen, stop. I mean, you can keep saying that.

[John (Host)]

You can keep living this world if you wish.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

I can't help you.

[Jared]

Yeah.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

You're gonna have to decide at a root level. I'm worth more than this.

[John (Host)]

And by the way, there are people.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

That will be with you forever, that will love you even though you have herpes.

[Jared]

Yeah.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

You're not stuck with her forever. A person who. Man, you're worth so much more than this. Dude.

[Jared]

I just poured so much into everything. I just don't want to give up.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

You haven't.

[John (Host)]

You haven't poured any.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

I mean, what have you poured into this? It was two months, and she slept with another guy and gave you an sti.

[John (Host)]

Like, I don't understand.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

What have you poured into?

[Jared]

For four years now we live together. She has a five year old daughter, which isn't mine, and I'm basically like her dad and it's just really tough.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Okay, well, how can I help, man?

[Jared]

And then so whenever she cheated on me, whatever she wants, this, that and the other. And so. And we're stuck in a little trailer, so I, I started day trading or whatever and I made a ton of money. And then I put more salt on the relationship because I lost $60,000 after I had made a hundred thousand. So now she hates me for that. So just like I feel like she's just punishing me because she's mad at me, but because she, whenever she cheated on me or whatever, these other dudes have more to offer than me right now. And it's just like she says that she loves me and cares for me more than anything in the world, but then it's like it doesn't make any sense because it'. Somebody that loves you would not do this stuff to you. And she just blames everything on me.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Jared, how can I help you, man?

[Jared]

I just, I don't know. I don't have the courage to leave and I don't know what, what, what to do. Like I'm, I want to fix this badly.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

It is an unfixable situation. She's an untenable human. And you keep making dumb decision after dumb decision. And I say this as, I say this as lovingly as I can. Living in a trailer and day trading is, is not the path out, man.

[Jared]

Yeah.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

And if you have somebody who loves and cares about you, they won't sleep.

[John (Host)]

With other people.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

They won't beat you up when you're down.

[Jared]

And I guess she's turned everything on me to the point where I think I'm the problem. And it's like I'm sitting here questioning what's real and what's not. Like I've lost my mind.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Yes, you have. I'm trying to give it back to you and you don't want it. You're so transfixed with this woman that you've given her common sense. You've given her your health, you've given her your soul. You're a living babysitter for her. You're a meal ticket for her and you're a punching bag for her.

[Jared]

I just can't understand why somebody would do that.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

She's not a good person. You're. You're trying to figure out an unsolvable.

[John (Host)]

Problem.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

And Every time you stick around to try to solve the problem, you just get beat up more and more and more and more. It's like you're in a boxing ring, but your hands are tied behind your back, and the boxer's just hitting you, and you're like, I don't get. Figure out why I'm getting punched. And the whole time you're trying to figure, he's just wailing on you, and the wisest thing to do is just get out of the ring, man.

[Jared]

And she says that I do that to her because I'm like, all this sadness and depression has just turned into anger, and I can't. I can't. Like, I can't hold it back anymore. I'm so. I'm so hurt. I'm so upset.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Hold on, Jerry. That's not true. You can. But again, going back to the rattlesnake analogy, that's like the rattlesnake biting you and blaming you. Your hand for swelling up.

[Jared]

Yeah.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

And having not handsome hands anymore. And then you put your hand back in the bag, try to pick up the snake again, and it bites you again. And then it blames you for getting stung. Here's the thing. You know this. I'm not telling you anything you don't know. I just can't.

[Jared]

I just don't. I don't know what's making me not be able to walk away.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

I don't know, man. I don't know.

[Jared]

It's like I imagined my whole life with this girl. And then it's like every time things start to get better, it just gets tore all open again.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Okay? You get to decide. You're in a very toxic, toxic, toxic situation. In medicine, there's a rule that if we give somebody an intervention, if we give somebody a medicine and they get worse, even if we don't know why that medicine is making them worse, we stop the making them worse part even before we know why. And so what I'm telling you is, in the middle of a fist fight, when someone's beating you down, that's not the moment to figure out why the punches are coming. You have to get away from the fight.

[Jared]

Yeah. And then it's like I'm consumed by this stuff all day long because I'm like, of course she's going. What is she doing? Where is she going? Why she stopped? Here, here's the thing.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Here's the thing, brother. Here's the thing. Here's the thing. I cannot help you, dude, because you don't want to be helped, right?

[John (Host)]

Now.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

And that's okay. That's okay.

[Jared]

I guess I can't understand why I don't want to be helped. Why am I acting in this way? Why am I?

[Dr. John DeLoney]

I don't know. I. I mean, I don't know. I don't have an answer for you, dude. You're not interested in that answer. What you're interested in is how you can you figure out how to mold and shape yourself to stay in a situation with a very unhealthy person.

[Jared]

Yeah, that's it. But now I'm unhealthy because of it. So now I don't know. Now I feel like I don't. I'm just scared.

[John (Host)]

Be scared of whatever.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

You're the one supporting this situation. I don't know what you're more scared of. Getting hurt again, getting cheated on again, getting another disease again, or being alone for the first time in several years. But here's the thing, dude. You've been alone forever. You've been alone for a long, long time, man. But also, I get it. I get it. I talk to people offline in your situation all the time who are just so stuck in a toxic relationship they can't see their way out of it. And I just have to tell you, I can't help you, man, until you say, I'm ready to get out. I'm ready to move. I'm ready to break free from this. I'm worth more than this. And it always starts from, I'm worth not hurting. I'm at least worth that. I'm at least worth not hurting. I will figure out why I'm in this toxic relationship. I'm going to figure out why I'm attracted to it. I'm going to figure out why, why, why? I'm going to do that later. Right now, I'm going to quit drowning. I'm going to quit getting bit by the rattlesnake. That's gonna be number one. When you're ready for that, my man, you call me and I'll walk with you on the way out, and I'll sit with you during the loneliness times and I'll talk to you and give you a roadmap for what comes next. But you're not there yet. And I'm just gonna ask you to make good choices, dude. You are in control of your anger. You're in control of your rage. You're in control of what happens next. You get to make good choice. The next move.

[John (Host)]

Not her.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

You. It's your move. When we come back, a woman asks if it's wrong for her to want to be her husband's first choice over.

[John (Host)]

Masturbation, we'll be right back. All right, if you're like me, you're in the middle of it. Summer is gone. We're in the fall now, and the days are getting shorter. School is back in full swing. The Q4 work stresses are hitting hard, and you and I both are wanting to numb out more and more. We have to be intentional about protecting our sleep, because here's the truth. How we sleep is an incredibly large part of how well we all feel. When our body isn't rested, our minds can't reset. Sleep is one of the most important things we can do to stay mentally sharp, emotionally ready, and able to show up for our families and. And for our workplaces. And this is why I'm always talking about the greatest mattresses on the planet. Helix mattresses. Helix builds mattresses made for you, not some generic average sleeper. So whether you're a hot sleeper or a side sleeper or back sleeper or somewhere in between, Helix designs mattresses around your needs.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Yours.

[John (Host)]

Get online and take the Helix sleep quiz. I did it. It takes, like, two minutes or so, and they will match you with exactly the right mattress for you. And right now, my audience can get an exclusive 20% off their entire order during Helix's extended Labor Day sale. Go to helixsleep.com DeLoney for 20% off site wide. That's helixsleep.com DeLoney and tell them you heard about Helix mattresses right here on this show with Helix. Better sleep starts right now. All right, let's go out to Alberta.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Canada, and talk to Lynn. What's up, Lynn?

[Lynn]

Oh, hi. I'm so nervous.

[John (Host)]

It's all good. It's all good.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

I'm nervous, too. I'm not very good at this, so.

[John (Host)]

We'Ll get through it together.

[Lynn]

Yeah, you say that all the time. You're good at it. It's just because this is such a private and taboo topic that nobody talks about that It's. I don't know who to talk to about it. So, like, I have an issue with. With my husband masturbating and feel like I'm. I'm just kind of left out like that he doesn't pick me at all.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Yeah. Huh. Tell me about it.

[Lynn]

Well, okay, a little backstory. We've been together since I was 16.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

How old are you now?

[Lynn]

Married at 18 48. So 30 years of marriage.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Okay.

[Lynn]

Yeah.

[Mara]

Married at 18.

[Lynn]

And when I was pregnant with our first kid, I had gone out for an event. I said, I'll be about an hour. And I came home and in our bedroom I found a porn tape open. And I was like, what, what is this? Oh, I guess I left that out. And like, I was only gone an hour. Like, like you couldn't wait. And I guess I was just so naive. I thought that once you were in a committed sexual relationship, you just didn't do that anymore. I was just so surprised you didn't.

[John (Host)]

Look at pornography or masturbate.

[Lynn]

Him, you say? Or me.

[John (Host)]

No, I'm saying like you didn't know.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

That, that you thought once, once we're.

[John (Host)]

Married and we're having sex together that all that just goes away.

[Lynn]

Yeah.

[John (Host)]

Oh, awesome.

[Lynn]

I did.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Awesome.

[John (Host)]

Okay, very cool.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Now. Now we're on the same team.

[Mara]

I totally thought that.

[John (Host)]

Hey, hey, you're not, you are not the only one. You're not crazy. Okay? I'm just laughing at the data, so. No, I'm not. I'm not laughing at you at all. I'm laughing with you. So.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Yes.

[Lynn]

But you know, I'm like, well, I didn't. I went to him first if I was interested or wanted to, I just.

[John (Host)]

Right.

[Lynn]

Thought he would too.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Sure.

[John (Host)]

Okay. So that was a long time ago.

[Mara]

Oh, yeah.

[Lynn]

Well, this is just the history. So I'm pregnant with my second kid and I had gone to bed early and I woke up at midnight and wondered why he wasn't in bed yet.

[Mara]

I'm like, what's happening?

[Lynn]

And I walk out and I catch him and I was like, oh, watch.

[John (Host)]

Him watching pornography again?

[Lynn]

Yeah.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Okay.

[Lynn]

Caught him in the act red handed, if you know what I mean.

[John (Host)]

I got it.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Yep.

[Lynn]

Yep. And I was like, well, you don't try to have sex with me. And I certainly didn't feel like he found me attractive when I was pregnant. And he certainly wasn't going to to say so because afterwards he goes, oh, I like this much better. I'm like, I knew it. Like, I could tell. Body language is 80% of language. I could tell that you weren't interested in me. He goes, I don't know why. I just like this better.

[John (Host)]

He likes pornography better.

[Mara]

He didn't like my body.

[Lynn]

When I was pregnant.

[John (Host)]

Okay, but when you said, he told.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

You I like this better, what did you mean? He liked pornography better than being with you?

[Lynn]

No, he, he would deny that. He, After I had the kids, he gave me a hug and said he liked my body better when I wasn't pregnant. And so every time I, I just kept thinking, is he Doing it? Is he doing it? And then, and he would hide it and keep it a secret. And then I thought, you know, I'm going to be open about this, let's talk about this. And I asked him if he'd watch porn every time. He's like, no, it's like sometimes I would think of you, I'd watch a picture of you. And I just thought it was when I was away, like if I was gone for a couple of days, I'd, and I'd say, you know, hey, did you, did you masturbate? And he's like, oh, just once. And then my whole world just blew up. About a year and a half ago.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

What happened?

[Lynn]

We were in Mexico. We were in Mexico and I was looking through his phone pictures of chichi Nissan. I found pictures of, of girls. Like, of women. Like we had our younger. We had our 20 year old son there and his friend and they were trying to find girls.

[Mara]

And I go, help with that girl, how about that girl?

[Lynn]

And I think he just kind of.

[Mara]

Got caught up in it.

[Lynn]

But this picture, I was like, that is definitely not a girl for our son. Like, what is this picture about? And he says, oh, I don't know, I don't remember. And I said, well, I'm going to delete that. And then I said, give me your phone back, I want to look at that picture again. And he goes, I thought you deleted it. I said, I did. I mean, you're trash. And he just reached across the bed and grabbed the phone out of my hand and says, don't look, you're just going to make yourself more upset. And I was like, what is happening right now? Like, I picked him because he was different from all the other guys. I didn't want a guy who looked at porn, went to the strip clubs, looked at Playboy, drank a lot, smoked, did drugs. Like, this is not our value system, you know? And then I'm thinking like, maybe he's not happy. Maybe he's, he's. I'm not good enough. Everything would turn to a 180. Mike, I'm the one who's been unbelievably unhappy multiple times in this marriage. Not you. You've been solid and steady and I've always done the work to fix it.

[Mara]

Like, like what?

[Lynn]

How am I going to make this better? And then to think that maybe he wasn't happy. And then after we got home, he says to me, I'm not unhappy. I'm not looking for somebody else. It's not in me to cheat I don't know why I did it. I just got caught up. And it just felt like he had. Felt like he was somebody I didn't know. And so we've been working hard over the last year and a half with counseling and stuff, and I'm just learning more and more that I could be at home. I could be at home sleeping, and he would still go and masturbate. And I'd say, well, if you can. He told. He admitted to me he would use porn 99% of the time. And he says, I screwed up, didn't.

[Mara]

I, by telling you that?

[Lynn]

And I was like, no, I'm asking these questions. I want to know. I want you to be open and honest with me. You're just hiding so much stuff. And he admitted to lying to me about more than just this. He lies to me, whatever thing.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Yeah.

[Lynn]

And I was like, did I. I set this up? Like, was I too hard in the beginning being like, this is not how I want our life to look like? I don't want you going out to the bars. I don't want you out drinking and spending all night like, we're married now. We're gonna have a family. I want you home. Like, did I. Part of me felt like I created an avenue for him to hide and sneak and lie. And then he said, like to the counselor, he felt like, you know, the masturbating was just a habit that he just. He. It was something you don't talk about.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Hey, Lynn. Lynn, let me interrupt you, okay? You're not crazy.

[Lynn]

He would never initiate sex with me.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

You're not crazy. Okay.

[Lynn]

Okay.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

I don't know how to say this in a caring way. This hasn't never been about you other than you had a fantasy about the man you were with, and you ignored signal after a signal after signal. And I think the part of this whole thing that you've lost trust in is you've lost trust in you, in your radar and your ability to judge people.

[Lynn]

Huh?

[Dr. John DeLoney]

This isn't about masturbation. This is about a husband with a.

[Lynn]

Grabbed a hold of this, with a.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Profound pornography addiction that has gone on for year after year after year after year after year. It's not about you being pretty enough. It's not about you being desirable enough. It's about your husband being dead in his own skin and making choice after choice for year after year to not seek aliveness inside his own skin, inside his own relationship, just taking the easy path out over and over and over again.

[Lynn]

And I know I can't make him do anything. You can't up and talk to me. I'm begging for it. And he says, I'm trying. And I said, how?

[Jared]

How?

[Lynn]

Like, I don't see it. I mean, you could be. You could be constantly still watching porn and masturbate and just telling me you're not. And I have no idea. And he says, I'm not. I'm not anymore. I stopped. I'm not doing it and it's no big deal.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Lynn, what have you put in place so that you can begin to reestablish trust.

[Lynn]

Is in like looking at his phone.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

And this is going to sound. This is going to sound harsh, but you're choosing misery right now. You've exposed.

[Lynn]

Figure out how to get out of it.

[John (Host)]

You've exposed a behavior.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

You've exposed the character of a person that you built a life with. You've also exposed that you repeatedly over the years ignored the fact that this guy was stepping out on you emotionally. Yeah, over and over and over and over and over again. And you ignored it. And so you've also exposed that you've lost trust in yourself. Okay, all of this is true. But continuing to have imaginary conversations and to spiral and to say, I can't trust, I can't trust, I can't trust. All that is true. But it's a choice to stay miserable right this second, having you. Here's what healing looks like. And I'm pissed off at your therapist for not giving this to you. He has to have a map, a roadmap that will re establish trust for you. What does that look like? That means no Internet for six months in this house, period. That means a flip phone. That means no social media accounts or I'm linked to every one of them. And I have the passcodes to all.

[John (Host)]

Of, I don't know, you get to make it up, but whatever will allow.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

You to reestablish trust. And then he has to say out loud, here's what would reestablish life and joy and pleasure and play and a life worth living inside his own house. And if he's not willing to do that or he's willing to take you and your kids on yalls vacation while he sits over here with pictures of 24 year olds on his phone jerking off in the shower while y' all are out at the beach, that's his choice. But you get to decide whether I want to be a part of that or not. And that's a guy cashing out on the one precious life he has. And that's you choosing to spin and spin and spin by just your.

[John (Host)]

Your truck is stuck in the mud.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

And you just got your foot on the gas.

[John (Host)]

At some point, you got to get.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Out and just walk. I'm not going to sit here and keep doing this. I'm just digging a deeper hole.

[Mara]

Yeah.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Nobody wants to be their husband's mother. Nobody wants to look at somebody's phone.

[John (Host)]

But this is where we are. Because what else is the opportunity?

[Dr. John DeLoney]

I think you're just going to say, I think you're doing this.

[John (Host)]

He's going to go, no, I'm not. And you're going to go, okay. And then you're going to find out he is again.

[Lynn]

I'm like, what else am I going to find out?

[John (Host)]

You know what you're going to find out?

[Dr. John DeLoney]

You know what you're going to find out, don't you?

[Lynn]

No, I don't know. I says, what else you lying to me about? He says, I can't think of anything right now. I feel just liable stupid things. And he lies to other people. I'm like, just because he doesn't want confrontation, like, you need to stop doing that.

[Mara]

That is not how I live my life, and that's not how I want.

[Lynn]

You to live your life. I'm like, I'm done letting go.

[Jared]

I know stuff.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

But you've lived your life this way your whole marriage with him. Yeah, I know, but when you say I'm not. I don't live like this, you do.

[Lynn]

Well, I guess I don't make those choices to make those decisions, and he does. And I guess I'm just. I can guarantee that I'm going to be disappointed. I'm always getting disappointed.

[Mara]

I'm tired.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

So here's the great, scary, terrifying question that all of us have to ask. What are you going to do now?

[Mara]

Well, I figure if I go back to.

[Lynn]

I guess this is just how he is. He's going to be that quiet guy, sitting on the couch, avoiding any confrontation, not standing up for anybody, especially me. And that's just the way he is. And I'm letting myself down because I'm letting go of you.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

That's right.

[Lynn]

And I. I always follow through with my word.

[Mara]

Always.

[Lynn]

And I'm just so sad because everybody thinks he's the greatest thing ever.

[Mara]

My kids love him.

[Lynn]

Everybody in the community thinks he's this wonderful, upstanding guy.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

And I'm like, lynn, when are you.

[Jared]

Gonna give up for me?

[Dr. John DeLoney]

When are you gonna show up for you?

[Mara]

But then I'm doing it by myself.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Josh You've been doing it by yourself.

[Mara]

By myself?

[Dr. John DeLoney]

You've been doing it by yourself.

[Mara]

I know.

[Lynn]

I know. I'm always doing it by myself.

[John (Host)]

But you give your kids a vote.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

You give the community a vote. You get your neighborhood a vote. You give whatever women he's talking to a vote. When are you going to give Lynn a vote?

[Lynn]

Now.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

When we get off this call, I want you to take out a piece of notebook paper or go grab a paper off of the printer in your house and write down, today, Lynn gets a vote. And here's what that means. If you lie again, you're out of my home. You're going to sit down, and together we're going to tell our adult children about the last 25 or 30 years of our marriage.

[John (Host)]

If you look at pornography again, do what I said.

[Lynn]

I love it, for it to all.

[Mara]

Be out in the open.

[Lynn]

Be transparent.

[Mara]

You'll probably feel a lot better, honey, if you just get it all out.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Listen, you have to decide, Lynn. You have to decide. I'm worth more than this. And this is not about masturbating. It's not. It's about you living in a ecosystem that. Where you have continued to have blinders on. And these blinders have kept you sort of ish. Safe, but the whole time you've known they're not safe in year after year. And catching him and catching him and catching him. And when he lies out in public, you just brush it off. You ignore it. You don't call it out. When he lies at home and you know he's lying. When he lies to the kids, you just kind of move on. And every time you do this, you bury a part of yourself a little bit deeper and a little bit deeper and a little bit deeper her. You are right. You can't control him. You are right. You can't ever know for sure if he's cheating on you or whatever. You. You can't. The only thing you can decide is I, Lynn, am worth more than this. And here is what that means. If he wants to remain married to me, here's what reestablishing trust will look like. Because I'm not going to walk around every second of every day wondering if he's cheating on me, wondering if he's spending our money somewhere. Wonder like, and by the way, this doesn't happen in a vacuum. I guarantee there's secret account somewhere or there's financial infidelity somewhere. I guarantee it. I guarantee you he's messaged people on social media. And when you caught him he probably wouldn't delete everything, but I guarantee that stuff is there. Guaranteed it. I guarantee that. This pornography problem, I don't. Nothing I could think of right now. Right, sure. That is not the response of a.

[John (Host)]

Exhausted fried man recommitted to his marriage.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

This is not. Somebody got caught and is going to pat you on the head until this blows over like it always has, Lynn. And you've gonna have to decide. I'm done living like this. I don't care what the community thinks. I do care what my kids think. But they're going to know the truth. Not in an ugly, gross way, but in an honest way. And my husband's going to have a path towards ending this marriage or my husband's going to have a path towards reestablishing trust. But I'm not just going to sit here with my foot on the gas in the mud spinning a deeper and deeper and deeper hole. And I know that sounds harsh, but that's just the reality that you find yourself in. Lynn. So the next move is yours. And my hope is for the first time in your adult life, you will choose Lynn so that maybe you can choose your marriage. It's your move.

[John (Host)]

When we come back, a woman asks what should she do if she feels.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Betrayed by her husband?

[John (Host)]

This show is sponsored by Better Help. Most of us are guilty of over sharing with the Internet or with the wrong person at one time or another. Or maybe you're just like me and you're just a bit of an oversharer all the time. And let's be honest, our entire culture is based on oversharing. Everyone is giving everyone else mental and emotional health advice. And some of it may be good, but a ton of it is nonsense. As fun as it can be to talk about everyday stuff with everyone all of the time, when you need real help with your relationships with anxiety, depression or other clinical issues, they may not have the right answers. You need real guidance from a licensed therapist who follows a strict code of conduct. And that's why I recommend reaching out to my friends at Better Help. BetterHelp is the largest online therapy provider in the world. And that means no matter what you're facing, chances are they've got someone who specializes in exactly the thing you're struggling with. And this is totally online. And it makes it easy to fit therapy into your busy schedule. To get started, just answer a few simple questions, nothing weird or scary, and they will connect you with a licensed therapist who fits your needs. Plus, if it's not the right fit, you can Switch therapists at any time for no extra cost. BetterHelp has been matching people with therapists for over a decade and their 4.9 rating shows they're really good at matching clients and therapists. So talk it out with better help. Visit betterhelp.com DeLoney to get 10% off your first month. That's better help. H E L p.com DeLoney let's go to Raleigh, North Carolina and talk to Mara.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Mary, what's up? Mary?

[Mara]

Hi Dr. John. How are you today?

[John (Host)]

I am just remarkable. How about you?

[Mara]

Well, I'm honestly, I'm feeling a little overwhelmed. I've, I've tried Google, my mom, my dog. So I'm hoping that you can give me a little bit more than them.

[John (Host)]

Have you not talked to a counselor or a friend?

[Mara]

I have, so. And I'm actually in counseling right now.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Okay, good.

[John (Host)]

I don't even know why you're calling, but I'm glad you called me after your pet because sometimes pets can really help.

[Mara]

Yeah. So to give you some information about me, I'm a 43 year old wife and I've been married for just over 10 years and we've had a really, just a lot of things happen in our marriage that we have overcome and, but right now I am struggling with feelings of betrayal toward my husband and it's turned to animosity and now we're at indifference and I just don't feel like he's helping out to the best of his ability with the issues that we have in our home and he's been lying about little things and it's just, it's just hard to, hard to be successful in our home when I feel like he's the one helping us set back.

[John (Host)]

What are some things y' all have overcome together?

[Mara]

So my husband, when I met him, he was caring for his mother with dementia. He also has an autistic son and he was going through, he had just gone through a messy divorce and we went through the cleanup of all that, that, you know, just life stuff there. And then we had, you know, we had lawyers involved and everything and that set us back financially. So then we went into all kinds of financial issues we've had where we've had two very difficult births with our children and both of our children are on the spectrum and we homeschool. So it's been, it's just been a lot of things like that.

[John (Host)]

Are you working or is he working?

[Mara]

I am actually disabled, so I work from home. I run two small businesses on the side and Then he works full time.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Okay, so in the past 10 years, he's buried his mom, been through a messy, expensive divorce, got remarried, had his own special needs son, had two more kids with special needs, married to a wife with special needs, and he just kind of cashed out.

[John (Host)]

When you, when you say you're disappointed.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

In him and he's holding you back, it sounds like he has, but y'.

[John (Host)]

All have both been through hell the.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Last 10 years, so how's, how's he.

[John (Host)]

How'S he holding you back?

[Mara]

Well, when he met me, he knew that I, I, I pack. I pack a lot into life. I like to. I like to live life to the fullest.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

What does that mean?

[Lynn]

And.

[Mara]

Well, I used to work for the circus as an animal trainer. So I'm used to, you know, I'm used to being around and, and doing big things and anything else in my life socially. I've always kind of done on that scale.

[John (Host)]

Kelly considers herself a animal trainer also. By, by working with me.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

By working with me.

[John (Host)]

Okay, so when did you become unable.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

To leave the house and work full time?

[Mara]

So during my marriage with him, it was during COVID We were in a car accident, and the same day that we actually found out we were pregnant, and it just totaled my back. And I went through a major depression during that pregnancy, being isolated and not being able to get the help that I needed for my pain, and. And so I just spiraled. And I guess, I guess the animosity comes from during that time. You know, I had done so much to make sure nobody in the home spiraled before, and I had already been through a rough previous pregnancy, but the second time, it was just like, okay, I can't. I can't do this by myself. These things like not having a nursery ready and not being, you know, not. Not having my needs understand, you know, being. Having to manage my diabetes by myself. On top of everything, there was just. There's just felt like there was no help. He was just too, too exhausted. Or he'd come to me and say, what do you want me to do? And I'd be like, well, here's the list. Here's the things that I've said. And it would just. It would just kind of, I don't know, just kind of dissipate into nothingness, you know, results. And so when I had my. When I had my second child with him, and I got through the. I waited to die while I was pregnant. I was like, the pain is so bad. I just want to die.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

And you're the pain in your back or the pain with the pregnancy?

[Mara]

The pain in my back, the pain of the pregnancy. There was all kinds of, you know, complications and stuff, and there was just the home life around me. I didn't feel nurtured at all. I didn't feel, I didn't feel like there was support. You know, it was, he was still able to work during COVID so staying at work and everything. And it was still my job to make sure that, you know, the home stayed functioning and our business stayed running during COVID And I got tired, I got burnt out then, and I said, I'm getting burnt out and I need help. And it just, it just didn't arrive. And in what way?

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Like, here's the thing, here's the thing, here's the thing. I, I, I just want to be as honest as I can with you, but I need you to be specific. And here's why.

[Mara]

Okay?

[John (Host)]

No matter how loving a partner is.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

They can't make catastrophic back pain plus pregnancy, plus managing diabetes, plus feeding a autistic child, like breastfeeding a kid.

[John (Host)]

They can't do, they can't make that less miserable.

[Mara]

Right.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

They can help with other things. And if a guy's coming to you saying, hey, how can I love you right now? What can I do to help? And he's working full time. Give me some examples about how he's.

[John (Host)]

Quote, unquote, not showing up.

[Mara]

When I was in hospital and we were coming back, one of the big stressors for me was coming back and my daughter didn't have a room. She didn't have a nursery. She didn't have anything set up. The house wasn't even clean. My, I came home to a very messy home. And.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

How long ago, how long ago is this?

[Mara]

This was four years ago, but this is, it's been things like that. I just feel like the necessity things that he goes blind to, you know, if I'm having, if I'm having problems with my health in a moment, and I just need, I need everybody to go away while I fix, you know, my blood sugar or I just feel like he doesn't check on me, there'll be, he'll come home from work, and he'll just come home and, you know, go on his phone. You know, he'll let the kids kind of run all around him, and he gets stressed easy. And I understand that, but it's just, I just feel like, I feel like I'm by myself. If I say finances, this is what we need to do. We need to Have a yard sale to get our finances back on track, you know, and I'll plan it and everything like that. It just takes something very little to derail it. If. If I'm needing help with, you know, with our daughter's homeschooling and stuff, and I say I need. You know, I can't. I've done everything here. I've done all the pre. Planning for this, and this is what I need you to do to. To get me an office so I can, you know, work with her. And because she's. As she advances, this is what I need for me to get. And it doesn't happen. It's just like. Well, we'll talk about that, and the. We'll talk about it just doesn't turn into anything.

[Jared]

We'll.

[Mara]

We'll. We'll plan something, and then I'll end up doing it. And then when it comes time to review it or see how we can make changes, and if I need help with something, it just doesn't happen.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Can I ask you a crazy question?

[Lynn]

Go for it.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Is it going to sound insensitive? And it's not. I'm not aiming for that. I just want to know. Okay, because I'm trying. I'm trying to get a full picture here. Do you like him?

[Lynn]

I do.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Okay. When's the last time y', all, like, you just made him a cup of coffee and y' all went for a walk.

[Lynn]

It's.

[Mara]

It's been a while. It's.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Okay.

[John (Host)]

Hold on, hold on, hold on, hold on, hold on.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

I got.

[John (Host)]

I got.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Let me. I'm just gonna ask a few questions. And these are not judgment questions. These are just contacts.

[Mara]

Yeah.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

When's the last time he did something for you? Whether big, whether small, whether help you with your diabetes, whether build something for you, make something, whatever. And you told him you were really happy that he did that thing.

[Mara]

I honestly can't remember.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Okay. Because sometimes we get trapped in cycles. And I'm not. I'm not saying anybody's at fault here. I'm just saying this. These just happen in relationships where there's one stressor on top of a stressor on top of a stressor. And for one partner, their house just feels like a failure factory. I cannot win here. And so they come home and they just numb out with. Whether with a tv, with a phone, with anger, with alcohol, with pornography. They just numb out. And at the same time, the other partner puts every uncomfortable feeling at their partner's feet and says, fix this discomfort for me. And that discomfort is a moving target. There can never be a place where we both exhale and say, I'm glad you're here and I'm glad you're here. And that just works in a figure eight. I'm uncomfortable. I'm numbing out.

[John (Host)]

I'm uncomfortable.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

I'm going to try to fix your discomfort. You didn't do it right. I'm numbing out and it just happens this way. And the only way I've ever seen that cycle disrupted is when one person says, I'm not living like this anymore. I'm swiping the deck clean. I have co created this with you. I want to better better marriage. I want to build a new marriage. Will you build it with me? Because I'm going to change. I'm going to ask you to bring your full self to the table too. That's the only way I've seen it change. You have built a prison for yourselves. And here's the prison we have to homeschool. I can't work, so I have to run two businesses. Since I'm doing that, I have to have a house that looks different. I have to have this. I've got to have this. I've got to have this. And at the same time, he's probably sitting there thinking, I have to work full time. Keep the lights on. I've got to do this. I've got to do this. And these have to's and shoulds and no matter what's are pulling you further and further and further apart. And the only way I've seen this be successful if somebody comes in and swipes the debt completely clean and says, the only have to is I have to serve and love you and you've got to serve and love me. And if we commit to that, then we can pretty much reverse engineer anything. And so how do we develop a new marriage and how do we develop new patterns of relating to each other? And it might be you saying, I am going to take responsibility for my health, my diabetes, my doctor's appointments, my weight loss. We are going to have to for a season let public school system handle and love our kids. Can we get a handle on our money? I'll send you financial Peace University and the Every Dollar app. I'm going to send it to you for free. I'm also going to send you a copy of Building a Non Anxious Life if y' all will use that book as a road map. That way you can sit down at this, at this breakfast y' all have together with some tools.

[Mara]

Thank you.

[Lynn]

Very much.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

And I'm not minimizing your pain at all. Hope you hear that. I'm not minimizing his. Just checking out. I. I know that's happening. I'm just saying one of y' all has to flip the light switch back.

[Jared]

On.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

And you both are going to have to come up with different ways of relating to each other. Sometimes saying, we need a yard sale. We got to get our finances back in order. I haven't even seen. That's one way to do it. Or, hey, I'm so scared. I'm scared about my health. I'm scared about our kids. I'm scared about our. Can we sit down? Can you help me be less scared? Can we look at our money together? And if he says absolutely not. Screw you and keep scrolling the news on his phone, then behavior is a language. He is telling you I've left this marriage and you're gonna have to deal in that reality. But continuing to bang your head against the drum of anger and resentment and Ash doesn't get you to where you want to go. If he's a man of integrity, then he's. Then letting him know, I'm scared. I'm scared about my health. I'm scared about our marriage. I'm scared about all of us. I miss you. That's an appeal to a man of integrity. If he's an actor out in the community, then that will expose that. And if you're expecting somebody else to grieve with you over the life you had, the vibrant wild animal training life you used to have, that is now a mother of three special needs kids and a debilitating back injury, and I'm stuck in the house with two online businesses. Then expecting somebody to make you happy is. Is an unrealistic expectation. Somebody to grieve with you and to build a new life. That's realistic. But if you live in a pain factory and he lives in a failure factory, y' all are. That's just. That's going to be the fruit of that tree. And somebody has to say, I love you too much. I love me too much. I love us too much. I'm turning the lights on. I want to build a new marriage. Are you in? Which will be the scariest question anybody asks. That's my hope for you, sister. Hang on the line here. I'll hook you up with some resources and you let me know. And if he wants to call in, y' all want to call back, I'd love to have you both on it sounds like you miss him. And it's your move.

[John (Host)]

All right. If you've listened to my show, you know that I'm always talking about boundaries. Emotional boundaries, relational, financial boundaries. But there's one boundary that I don't.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Talk about very often.

[John (Host)]

Almost nobody talks about it. And that's boundaries around your digital life right now. Your personal information, your phone number, your address, even where your kids go to school, where you work, all this information is sitting on countless gross websites that you've never heard of and you didn't give them permission to have all this information. But it's out there. And let's be honest, it's not just annoying, it's a violation. This constant exposure all over the place from God knows where creates this low level anxiety that hums in the background.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Of all of our lives.

[John (Host)]

Something always feels off. And that's why I use and love DeleteMe. DeleteMe goes after the data brokers and the people finder sites that collect and resell your information. They track down your information and they remove it. And every few months they send you a report showing you exactly what they've done for you. Taking control of your digital life is about boundaries. And boundaries are about peace.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

You deserve Peace.

[John (Host)]

Go to JoinDeleteMe.com DeLoney and use code DeLoney to get 20% off. That's JoinDeleteMe.com DeLoney to save 20% off.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

We are back.

[John (Host)]

Kelly, am I the problem?

[Dr. John DeLoney]

You know what?

[John (Host)]

Today you're the problem. But go ahead.

[Kelly]

It has. It's been an eventful day behind the scenes. For those that don't know, we'll just leave it at that. There's been a lot going on.

[John (Host)]

All I have to say is this. I'm trying to do a show and I can see what's going on behind this glass. And if you all could. If we could ever just record what goes on back there, that show would be so much better, like more famous than my show.

[Kelly]

I know but we would all be without jobs.

[John (Host)]

I know but man, those first three episodes would crush.

[Kelly]

Yeah. People walked in while we were taking a sensitive call and was a lot. Let's just continue on to some famous.

[John (Host)]

People walked in and it was awesome. But I was in the middle of a really sensitive moment. It and so it was not awesome but seeing Kelly's face out of the.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Corner of my eye because I had.

[Kelly]

To tell said people why they shouldn't be in the room.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

So great. Yeah. Any who.

[John (Host)]

That's the reddest I've seen you turn in a long time.

[Kelly]

I Have no doubt.

[John (Host)]

Since I saw you at that bar mitzvah dancing the other night, like, just shaking it like a salt shaker in, like, that bathing suit thing you're wearing.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

That's the.

[John (Host)]

That's the most embarrassed I've seen you. But just a minute ago was the second most ever.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

All right, go ahead.

[Kelly]

So Nicole writes.

[John (Host)]

What does Nicole say?

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Kelly?

[Kelly]

Okay. Nicole writes. Am I the problem? I've distanced myself from my high school friends of over 20 years because every time I get together with them, all they talk about is how awful their lives are. And I leave feeling so down. It's a total misery. Loves company interaction. They're dealing with divorces, cheating husbands, custody battles, et cetera. Meanwhile, I'm the happiest I've ever been with my husband and four kids. I feel like I can't share anything positive because I feel bad. And it seems like they don't want to hear it. They just want to commiserate. I want to support them through their hard times, but getting together with them is such a downer, and I dread it. And my selfish friend for trying to distance myself. I want to be around people who bring joy, not negativity. Am I the problem?

[Dr. John DeLoney]

No. You are going through one of the most painful breakups, which is that transition from high school and college friends to everyone just kind of splinters off and has kids, gets into their own things, moves away.

[John (Host)]

It's just hard, and it's miserable. But no, you are, by the way.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Your friends don't want your support.

[John (Host)]

They want your co misery.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Dr. Ethan Cross calls it co rumination. They don't want to fix anything.

[John (Host)]

They just want you to sit in there sewer sludgy hot tub.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

And just based in the. They don't want your support.

[John (Host)]

And so it's you just saying, I.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Don'T want to get in the hot.

[John (Host)]

Tub because it's disgusting.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

And that stinks because y' all have shared memories.

[John (Host)]

And by the way, this current iteration.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Of them versus you, it doesn't diminish how much fun y' all had in high school and college.

[John (Host)]

It doesn't.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

It doesn't diminish the silly times you had. The.

[John (Host)]

The. The bad day, Joe, when.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

It doesn't diminish any of that stuff. It just is a reality that yalls lives have diverged, and you're gonna lean towards joy and they're gonna lean towards misery and co rumination and just doing on stuff. And it just. I wish there was another way to say it. It just stinks. It's no good.

[John (Host)]

It's the worst.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

And it's very, very common. It's very natural. What do you think, Kelly?

[Kelly]

I agree. I had a friend, one of my best friends from college, and it finally got to where it was so hard to be friends because I felt like I was doing all the heavy lifting as far as everything was always wrong, and it was always just such a drudge, you know, and so kind of had to just gently let that one go. And that is hard because you keep thinking in your brain, you're like, no, this is my friend. I have to do this. But sometimes you have to make decisions that are right for you, and that doesn't mean you're not there for them and that you need them. And if things turn around or see them every once in a while.

[John (Host)]

But, yeah, I always want to go back to. Do you want my support or do.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

You want my co. Misery? And with my closest ride or dies, I'll be miserable with you for a season. I'll grieve with you for a season. And.

[John (Host)]

But we're going to work towards going towards daylight, right?

[Dr. John DeLoney]

And if you want to just stay.

[John (Host)]

In the dark, I'll honor that.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

But I don't want to do that long term.

[Kelly]

And it reminds me of. What is it like crabs, where they, you know, are like, when. Like in.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Tell us more, Kelly.

[Kelly]

No, not that, John. But they'll pull each other down if one tries to climb out.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Oh, I didn't know that.

[Kelly]

Yeah.

[John (Host)]

And my crustacean knowledge is very limited. That was good.

[Kelly]

Clearly you haven't seen Finding Nemo because it's in there, but the whole idea of, you know, somebody tries to climb out, but especially when there's more. It's when there's three or four of them. And then, like she said, it's just. Just a commiseration. And. And she may have to say, I just can't do this anymore, or just kind of quietly back away.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Yeah.

[John (Host)]

Head towards Joy. And if people don't want to go.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

With you, it can be a lonely trip, especially these days when everything is.

[John (Host)]

About, let's be miserable together.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

And someone says, you know what? As for me in my house, I'm not gonna wait on. I'm gonna head towards Joy. That can be a lonely walk, but I promise there are other people on that path. Love you guys.

[John (Host)]

Stay out of trouble. Bye.