← The Dr. Josh Axe Show
The Dr. Josh Axe Show
How to Stop People-Pleasing, Set Boundaries, and Heal Emotionally
01:00:36
The 4 attachment styles and how they impact your relationships, self-esteem, and stress levels.
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- [00:00]
A
I've had a lot of friends go to different counseling. I also feel like there's sort of this counseling culture today. I've heard that psychologists talk about this, that oftentimes if people talk about their problems too much, it actually can be a negative thing.
- [00:12]
B
Real significance should be found through connecting to a higher power or something greater than ourselves or contributing to other people's lives. Like, those are things that should bring a real sense of purpose and meaning. Being in relationship to a higher power helps you also get outside of yourself, get outside of that egoic identity, and realize like, that's just conditioning.
- [00:32]
A
Addressing those issues that you had and addressing those neurological patterns when you were a kid, it makes a big difference psychologically, your emotional health, but it makes a big difference in your physical health.
- [00:42]
B
I completely believe the mind and body are intertwined and so deeply connected. Every single action for a that we take is based on our emotional state.
- [00:52]
A
One of the things that keeps a lot of people sick is they become so obsessed about. Hey, guys. Dr. Axe here. I am so excited for this conversation. Today we have Tyus Gipson. She is a PhD with over 13 certifications, and she is an expert in counseling. She's also the founder of the Personal Development School and helps them rediscover their love and purpose in life. Now, today, we're going to get into attachment styles. Now, this is big. If you're a person that's a people pleaser, if you are codependent, if you have any emotional or mental or spiritual blocks in life, she's going to walk, walk us through how you break free of those things. The power of neuroplasticity, how to rewire your brain, and really how to get emotionally healthy. One of the things that I've discovered over the past years of taking care of just thousands of patients is that this, most people that have a health issue have some sort of mental or emotional component that is making them ill. And so we're going to get into how to get to the root cause today on the show by covering the four attachment styles going through, how to better understand the different attachment styles, and the one that you have the exact action steps to overcome those issues. Thais, welcome to the show.
- [02:06]
B
Thank you so much for having me. I'm so grateful to be here.
- [02:08]
A
Well, excited for you to be here. You know, one of the things we talk about so often on the show is not just physical health, but also mental health, spiritual health, relational health. I know You've got a PhD in counseling. I know you're an expert in pastoral counseling. And that's one of the things I love as well, because having a biblical Christian perspective in terms of how to help people heal and build relationships and build strong mental health and emotional health, it's really important. And I'd love to hear your thoughts on this. When I look at, I mean, I've had a lot of friends go to different counseling. I also feel like there's sort of this counseling culture today. It's interesting. And I've heard that some psychologists talk about this, that oftentimes if people talk about their problems too much, it actually can be a negative thing. This idea of sort of ruminating on their negative issues over and over and over again actually makes them worse. What are your thoughts about that?
- [03:02]
B
It's such an interesting topic of conversation to start off with. So I do believe this. And the reason for this is that when we look at the brain from a neuroplasticity perspective, whatever, we are constantly focusing our attention on, we are firing and wiring. So that's how neural pathways are literally built. So a lot of what I bring into the work that I do is also sort of this coaching lens as well, because it helps us focus on, okay, here's the issue. But if we constantly go back through the same types of issues without going towards, hey, what are the solutions to this issue? And focusing our energy and attention there, then we'll just get stuck reinforcing the problem to begin with.
- [03:38]
A
Yeah. And I think that's one of the things I see with a lot of counseling and psychology and psychiatrists today is that you'll go in there, you'll talk about your problems, and you'll just talk about it over and over and over again, versus, yeah, there not being a solution. And so that's one of the things that I really see the difference in terms of doing this More virtue Christian, these sort of counseling sessions where it's like, there is a solution there and that solution is God, it's Jesus, it's focusing on serving others. It's sort of taking the lens outside of yourself. And I even think about the whole self help category today. It's all about you, how you can be successful, make your dreams come true. That seems kind of anti biblical to me. What do you think?
- [04:18]
B
I think there's parts of this that are good for empowerment purposes. I think it's beautiful to have goals and intentions for things, and I think there's so much value in doing that, for sure. But I also think that sometimes there can be a little bit of selfishness to the culture we have today from a self help perspective. And I think that when we do get outside of ourselves and actually connect to things, something greater than ourselves and focus our process of relationship also about service to others and contribution to other people's lives, I mean, honestly, it's so rewarding in doing that. And I find that we find a lot more significance and meaning. And you probably have heard of Tony Robbins and he talks about the six basic human needs that come from Abraham Maslow originally in that one of the basic human needs we have is significance. And it's so interesting to me because when we look at the breakdown of how we can achieve our need for significance, it kind of show shows up in different forms. A lot of, you know, social media today, it's like how many likes you have on social media gives people this sense of significance. But we can find our needs through healthy and adaptive forms or unhealthy and maladaptive forms. And if you actually break down the need for significance beyond likes on social media or the pictures you post and who engages with them, you know, real significance should be found through connecting to a higher power or something greater than ourselves or contributing to other people's lives. Like those are things that should bring a real sense of purpose and meaning.
- [05:39]
A
Well, it's so easy to get in a ditch one way or the other. It's sort of like a lot of people feel like they're the center of the universe, everything's about them. And then there's another level of sort of, you know, life is meaningless and I'm meaningless. And so. And you want to find that healthy balance. And this is something I find so beautiful about the Bible is really that message is, listen, you are significant, but you're not the most significant. Right? And so really being able to, I think realize that, embrace that sort of idea is that you do matter, you are meaningful. But there's something even more meaningful than you that you can devote your life to and be part of. Wow, that's, you know, that's, that that can be super empowering for people.
- [06:17]
B
So there's this really interesting sort of crossing of paths that I notice and it's that we all have when we go through trauma, we go through conditioning in our upbringing, right? And the way that trauma imprints the subconscious mind means that we'll carry those things forth with us. So let's just say, for example, somebody experienced being abandoned as a child, maybe they were adopted, or maybe they went through a parent leaving at a young age, what then happen? This forms part of the ego mind and our egoic identity. And what that means is we will identify, okay, I am the person who may be abandoned. Whatever imprints the subconscious mind basically becomes this lens that we see and interact with the world through. And then what takes place is from that space of trauma, we become engulfed in the fear of that. And I often give the analogy, if somebody goes into the woods and they see a bear, you know what happens? Let's say you run away from the bear and you're safe. But just say, for whatever reason, you have to go back through the woods the very next day. Well, you go into the forest and you go, where's the bear? Oh, my God. Is the bear coming this way or that way? And we constantly reproject the likelihood of the bear coming back. And so what happens when we go through trauma and conditioning, which we all go through, forms of, whether big T trauma or small t trauma, it imprints the subconscious mind. And then that forms our sense of self and identity, that forms our ego, and then we tend to bring that with us everywhere into all of our future relationships. And so what I love about sort of the space that I found in this work Is that being in relationship to a higher power helps you also get outside of yourself, get outside of that egoic identity, and realize, like, that's just conditioning. That's just this small me. And it helps us see, wait, maybe there was a purpose in the things that I went through. Maybe God was bringing something to my life. Maybe there was a lesson or meaning. And when we can look at it that way, we can actually take away lessons and healing. And then what I tend to overlap this with a lot is actual reconditioning. So sort of this. This cross between, you know, connecting to a higher power and being outside of your ego mind and being able to witness some of those things and find the lessons. But also recognizing that just because we went through those traumas in childhood doesn't mean we have to carry those with us over and over again. We can actually recondition by leveraging neuroplasticity, those subconscious belief systems that we've acquired.
- [08:29]
A
I mean, this is such an important topic, and this is something over the past few years I've really dug into, because as I've taken care of tens of thousands of patients over the years, One of the things that I realized pretty early on is that, okay, there's a component of this person's health that's very much related to their diet, their exercise, environmental toxins that we really need to address. But that's only half of the equation, and maybe not even quite half. I mean, there's a picture that's just as big or bigger in terms of somebody's mental, spiritual, emotional health. And if we don't address these things, they stay sick. I'll share with you. A big part of my background was more natural, but Western. And then also when I realized that that wasn't going to address all the issues, I started studying a lot more of the Eastern medicine, everything from biblical medicine to Ayurveda to Chinese medicine, and realizing that, you know, they actually do a lot more in the, you know, again, even, even the, again, the Bible was birthed out of this, the Middle east, as you look at, they looked a lot more at the person as a whole. Their body, their mind, their spirit. And so one of the things I've really seen with patients is, is that so often there are certain conditions that are very much linked to emotional experiences in Chinese medicine. They tend to have, like, for instance, if you have an issue with your mom, okay, your mother was very controlling mother. That tends to affect something in Chinese medicine called the earth element, which is really your digestive system. And so those kids tend to have digestive issues. They have digestive issues later on in life. And then if it was a father issue, it tends to be, they call that metal element that's really tied to the immune system. So if you have a really bad relationship with your dad growing up or an abusive father, that tends to trigger things more like fibromyalgia or autoimmune disease or some of those issues. And so I just wanted to point out that, so addressing those issues that you had and addressing those neurological patterns when you were a kid, it makes a big difference psychologically, your emotional health, but it makes a big difference in your physical health, 100%.
- [10:30]
B
And I completely believe the mind and body are intertwined and so deeply connected. And when you actually look at the breakdown of why this is happening, let's say somebody, for example, going back to somebody who has abandonment wounds growing up, if somebody is constantly reprojecting, like the bear in the woods, the fear of being abandoned when they get into a relationship, they're dysregulated on a regular basis. Oh, my goodness, is the person, why aren't they texting me back? Why aren't they getting back to me? Do they like me? Are they going to stick around? Well, then you enter into sympathetic nervous system state, you're in fight or mode more often, you have more cortisol, more norepinephrine and so all of those things, of course, are going to have an impact on your immune system, your well being as a whole. And so everything is so interconnected. And when we learn, and I'd love to go into for a minute too, some of the how we can rewire these things because just because we have them to your point at the beginning, like identifying them is such an important first step, but if we stay there and just talk about them all the time, it's honestly just reinforcing those same neural networks over and over again. Meaning that we're actually going to keep ourselves in a triggered and more hypervigilant state, which is going to wreak havoc on our body and mind over time. So when we recognize we have these fears or wounds and we're able to step outside of the egoic self and witness and notice these patterns, that's wonderful. But then we can also plug them into specific tools to rewire these things so we're not constantly reprojecting them on a daily.
- [11:49]
A
Walk me through, what are some of the most common wounds that people carry with them? So you talk about abandonment, I'm sure another one is I know a lot of people that are people pleasers. They want to, they feel like they have to constantly be validated by other people would be another thing. But what are some of the most common that you see, these wounds that people carry from childhood.
- [12:10]
B
So I tend to break them down by sort of archetype of attachment style. So at a very high level, you'll see our anxiously attached individuals, the people who are needy in relationships, their big core wounds are around things like being abandoned, being seen as a bad person, which is often why people go into people pleasing to avoid that being seen as not good enough, being rejected, disliked and excluded, and of course unloved. So those are those big fears and wounds. And what you'll see, which is really interesting, I give people this acronym, btea, which means that our beliefs lead to thoughts. Okay, so if I believe, for example, I'm not good enough, and let's say I go into a networking event to meet new people, I will start thinking thoughts like, oh, I'm not good enough to be here, I'm not, not qualified enough to be here, people aren't going to like me enough, I'll start thinking thoughts in alignment with that belief that I'm carrying all the way back from the conditioning and probably my childhood. Then how do I feel or how do I start emoting when I am thinking these thoughts? Well, I start feeling Nervous or insecure or anxious. So bte beliefs to thoughts, to emotions and the neuroscience is actually proven conclusively, every single action for a that we take is based on our emotional state. So even people who think they're very logical, rational thinkers are actually making a emotionally based decisions at the tipping point and then just quick to then rationalize or justify their decisions through logic.
- [13:29]
A
That's interesting.
- [13:30]
B
So even people who are carrying these ideas about themselves, if we're not in control of our belief systems and we're not able to witness and rewire the condition patterns we've acquired from our own childhood or previous life events, then we're not really in charge of how we're thinking, feeling and how we're acting on a daily basis. And so a lot of those core wounds for the anxious attachment individual where they feel afraid of abandonment or being seen as a bad person, you can actually watch those things almost like threaded through btea. They start thinking, oh my gosh, what if this person thinks I'm a bad person or not good enough. They feel insecure and then their action to follow would be to people, please. Now what's really interesting is a lot of people try to control their actions or even you can probably see this from a health perspective. People are like stop binge eating food or stop doing these things. But what's actually happening is if we're not targeting the root cause, it's very difficult to just control our behaviors if we're not in charge first of the beliefs, thoughts and emotions that are behind when we take that action to go to the fridge and binge eat or to escape through drinking or substances or whatever it might be, then we can't really control our actions very much. So there's a huge really cool body of work about how to rewire the subconscious mind. But to go back to your original question, then we also have a different type of attachment individual. So individuals who are a little more cold, slow to warm up sometimes fear commitment in relationships. They're often dismissive, avoidant, and they usually grow up having to be hyper independent in their childhood. So they get a lot of what we call childhood emotional neglect. They're kind of on their own from an early age. And a lot of their fears as adults are that their wounds are around being trapped, being helpless, being powerless, being seen as weak if they're too vulnerable or open up too much. And usually it goes back to they had either hyper controlling parents who made them feel engulfed, or they grew up in household where they just literally nobody was ever there. And around. And what's interesting is when somebody's engulfing you as a parent, they're still neglecting you because what you are is the extension of them. Right. The parent is going, you should be the character of my story. You should be exactly how I want you to be. There's no attunement to that child. And so that child doesn't get to develop this individual sense of self. So as an adult, they grow up and they're terrified of too much closeness. And you'll see threaded through their btea if they believe they're going to be trapped or helpless or powerless or weak, if they open up, they start thinking this, this person's getting too close. I don't like this. This feels uncomfortable. They start feeling insecure. And then their action or coping mechanism will be to push somebody away.
- [16:01]
A
And I want everyone to be thinking about like, which one of these is you? All of us fall into one of these buckets and have some of these that happen. And then we're going to go through thais is going to share how to start healing from these. What are a couple others that might be in terms of these styles that you're talking about? These attachment styles?
- [16:15]
B
Yeah. So there's four in total. So those are sort of like the most common ones. You'll see in terms of our insecure attachments, we have four attachment style. So one is anxious attachment, which is the one we talked about, the abandonment, the disliked, I'll be seen as a bad person. One is a dismissive avoidant, the usually childhood emotional neglect, the engulfed one or trapped one. And then we have the secure attachment, which roughly makes up about 50% of the population. And securely attached individuals as children get what we call a lot of approach oriented behaviors. It seems like a small thing, but what it means is that when a child, when they're young and they're growing up and going throughout their whole childhood, when they cry or they are distressed or frustrated, the parent is attuned enough to them to notice. And then they approach them to try to soothe them. And what that does is it actually creates this huge foundation of a few different things a child learns to believe. They get conditioned and wired to believe I am worthy of love and attention even in my hard moments. They feel a sense of being confident in who they are because they feel loved and accepted wholly. And they end up feeling like I can trust people, I can rely on people and I can regulate through people. So securely attached children grow into securely attached adults who statistically have the highest level of longevity in relationships, but also report being the most fulfilled in their adult relationships. And then, last but not least, we have a fearful, avoidant attachment style. And fearful, avoidant attachment styles basically share in the anxious and dismissive side in a way. But really, they grow up in a household where the overarching theme is isn't the need for closeness or the need for distance. It's that they grow up in a lot of chaos. So this could be, for example, mom or dad is a narcissist, has narcissistic personality disorder, and there's complex trauma in the home, or a parent is an alcoholic or has substance use issues, or a lot of chaos, a lot of fighting between parents, a terrible divorce. A child's in the middle at a young age. And basically what this child learns is that their way to attach and survive their childhood is to constantly see two or three steps into the future. Because if, for example, mom's an alcoholic, one day mom comes home and she's drinking just a little bit, and she's in a good mood and she's sweet. Another day, mom's drinking a lot and she's cruel and she's scary. Another day mom's sobering up and she's kind because she feels badly about her behavior. Another day, mom's going through withdrawals when she's sobering up and she's a mess. And it's like, you never know what you're gonna get. So the way this person learns to survive their environment is I'm gonna read between the lines. I'm gonna be become really, really attuned to people and be able to predict their behavior, Notice micro expressions and body language in the moment something's off. But this person usually is extremely hypervigilant as an adult. And what I've actually seen in my practice back when I was working with clients for a long time, is those individuals. There was definitely a strong correlation between those individuals having the most autoimmunity type issues longer term. And I believe that's because they're always in sympathetic nervous system. Always.
- [19:20]
A
And would there be an element of those people too? They're always trying to control the situation totally. Because again, it's chaos. It's like, hey, things are out of control and I need to try and bring them into control.
- [19:29]
B
Absolutely. And it's either controlling their external environment, or this is actually what attachment style I had. And I did the work to become secure. And what I noticed is I was pretty good at not controlling others as an example, because I knew what it Felt like to be controlled and I didn't want to be that, but I was always trying to control myself, always trying to control everything in my environment or body or everything.
- [19:52]
A
Well, and I see this with a lot of autoimmune disease. I'll give you an example. Oftentimes one of the things that keeps a lot of people sick is they become so obsessed about this condition that they have that it's all they think about every single second of the day. And so I have a lot of patients now that I'll work with. And what will happen is, for instance, I have one woman I'm thinking about and she has autoimmune disease, Hashimoto's thyroid. I and all she thinks about every second of the day is Hashimoto's thyroiditis. And she is always researching, she's always reading and listen, I'm not saying you shouldn't do that some, but you shouldn't do it 24 hours a day and try and control every last thing of every single moment in life around this one condition.
- [20:35]
B
Absolutely. Okay, so here's something really interesting. So the subconscious mind at the end of the day is very survival wired. So it wants to maintain its comfort. So when we get imprinted with trauma, let's say you're in an environment where you feel really out of control and your coping mechanism is to try to predict everything so you can control it. That actually forms like your conditioning as a person, a big part of your identity, without necessarily your conscious mind's awareness. And so what happens is, even when we leave our childhood environment of something like that, funnily enough, the subconscious mind doesn't care about how good you feel emotionally. It just cares that, hey, if, if we survived our environment, all of our patterning must be working because we're still living. And so what ends up happening is we end up reenacting our same types of patterns over and over again to maintain that subconscious comfort zone. Because what's in our comfort zone is familiar and thus safe. And thus we're more likely to survive. So if you watch the thread and how it follows, what ends up happening is if in childhood to survive, you had to control everything as an adult, even if you're out of that environment, you'll easily fall into that same pattern of hyper researching, hyper focusing on things, being hypervigilant about every little thing in your diet, every little thing all day, every day about Hashimoto's thyroiditis because it's actually your conditioning. And so it's just, it went from I had to be this way as a child, to, okay, I'm still this way as an adult. It's not about my parents any longer or the instability in my household. It's now about the instability in my body and what I'm going through. And so a big part of healing, honestly, in my opinion, is we absolutely have to tackle the physiological components of things, of course. But if we don't take care of that mindset, peace and recondition those patterns, then we're just doing the same thing over and over again. It's just in a different form.
- [22:17]
A
Yeah. And when I look at a lot of conditions, we obviously had an autoimmune disease. I think cancer is predominantly an emotional, spiritual disease in this very same way. In Chinese medicine, it's really believed that different emotions you experience affect different organ systems. So worry is affecting the digestive system, not letting go of things from the past. That's really connected to the immune system, the lungs and colon. Anger, frustration, those sort of things. Resentment, that's all liver, gallbladder issues. And then fear, of course, we talked about that's adrenal. That's a big part of your endocrine and hormonal system. So we know that, hey, we need to go and address those things in order for you to heal. It's even interesting. I'll just share this. When you look at Chinese medicine, they really believe that breast cancer is connected to one side versus it's like, why would you get breast cancer on the left versus on the right? Well, the breasts generally are seen as being an organ for nourishing a child and also for sexual arousal. And so it's really dependent. So if you are overnourishing people, you never nourish yourself. You overnourish others. That's breast cancer on one side versus if you aren't in touch with your feminine side, you'll develop it on the other. And so it's really interesting how different. I mean, just how just having very specific emotions, how that creates disease in very specific places within your body. So it's so important we start to deal with these things as early as possible and completely as possible. And I think I remember when I used to see patients or see patients full time. Now I have a virtual practice, and I have people come and practitioners from all over the world called the Health Institute Institute. And we help people work through some of this stuff and a lot of the dietary, of course, and supplements and that sort of thing. But every single person has an element of their emotional health that's contributing to their condition. And I remember when I was in full time practice, people would come in and they would say my doctor told me I need to reduce stress. And I would say, okay, that's great. What did they tell you to do? Well, they didn't tell me me what to do. They just told me I need to reduce stress. And so this is one of the most common issues, this is why I wanted to have you on the show, is that so often people go to doctors, we read online, we hear we need to reduce stress, but almost nobody knows how to practically do it. It's not just stress, it's very specific. Listen, stress isn't all bad. It's when you're stressed 24 hours a day and it's a very negative stress. That is you get in this neurological pattern. With Ty, you said, and I know what you're talking about. So let's start to go through. I'd love for you to share. How do we start to break these attachment styles and these neurological patterns?
- [24:56]
B
Yeah, I love this topic. So there are five major pillars overall. And the first pillar starts with actually being able to rewire these core wounds and these core ideas. Because unless we're in charge of these core beliefs, then like we talked about, it creates thought patterns, emotional patterns, and then behavioral patterns or actions that follow that cycle that we just feel like we're caught in this loop of and don't even realize it's happening. Like almost to your, your patient's point of view where you said she was hyper fixated and hyper focused on Hashimoto's thyroiditis all day, every day. And it's like, well, that's probably just your old BTEA pattern from childhood appearing in a different form. So we have to get to the root. I really believe in getting to the root. And one of the biggest roots is our core beliefs. And so when we look at these things, what's really interesting is we're not born with these core beliefs. We don't come into the world thinking I'm trapped, I'm going to be involved or helpful. So they get, get conditioned into us through repetition and emotion. Now what's really interesting is I often give individuals this kind of starter kit tool for how to rewire your subconscious mind. There's lots of different ways, but this is a really easy one that your listeners can start even today if they see themselves in some of these patterns. And it's that first and foremost, I'm not a big believer in affirmations because affirmations are just your conscious Mind speaking to your conscious mind. The conscious mind speaks language. The subconscious mind speaks, speaks in emotions and images. So if I say to you, okay, whatever you do, do not think of a pink elephant. You probably flash an image of a.
- [26:22]
A
Pink elephant, of course.
- [26:23]
B
And if your conscious mind hears, do not. But your subconscious mind just speaks in emotions and images, and it's really instantaneous that way. So what we have to be able to do is feed to our own subconscious mind for a long enough period of time a new idea that a opposes this old one. So let's just say for simplicity's sake, we're going to work on the core belief, I am not good enough. But people can fill in anything here. I'm abandoned. I'm trapped. I'm helpless and powerless. All these core beliefs. First step, there's three steps to the tool is we find the core belief that's affecting us and it's opposite. So I am not good enough. I am good enough. Second step, we have to speak to our subconscious mind. So what we do here is we actually need emotions and images. And what's really interesting is every memory we ever have is just a container for emotions and images. So if I were to say to you, okay, tell me your favorite childhood memory, and let's pretend it was you at the beach with your parents, and maybe you see the images of the beach and the waves and the sandcastle and your parents. And we've all seen people when they tell an old story, they laugh or they smile. The emotions are there. So what we do is we need repetition of emotion and imagery. That means repetition of speaking to our subconscious, because that's firing and wiring new neural pathways. So in step two, after we find the opposite of the core belief, I am good enough, then we come up with 10 for repetition, memories for emotion, and imagery of times we actually felt good enough. Now, they can be small things. They don't have to be huge accolades or accomplishments. They can be things like, I got out of bed at my first alarm this morning. Morning. And I didn't hit the snooze button. And we want to speak in the positive framing. So, 10 things that we feel good about. Because what we're doing is we're retrieving images and emotion for a subconscious mind. Then research into neuroplasticity tells us that it takes 21 days of firing and wiring neural pathways for them to really solidify and be very likely to stick. So step three, after we come up with our 10 memories for how we actually were good enough, then we Record them into our phone and we listen back for 21 days, focusing on the images and emotions. This tool works exceptionally well and it's very simple. It takes two, three minutes a day. And it truly will help us drop these painful old ideas that create all these thought patterns and emotional patterns and unhealthy behaviors that follow. It will really help us drop all these ideas from childhood or previous conditioned experiences that we may have been carrying, carrying for, for a very long time.
- [28:49]
A
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- [31:50]
B
Yeah, it's a great question. So something that's really interesting to your point is so repetition and emotion, fires and wires. But if we have an emotional experience, it's strong enough, it can actually create an instant imprint. It's very rare. So I often don't tell people that too much, but it can happen. And you see it in the negative side all the time. If somebody, God forbid, is in an earthquake tomorrow, they could leave that earthquake and literally feel unsafe in the world having an immediate belief system. I am unsafe because of going through a really cute trauma. It happens on the positive side, but it's so much less common. That's such a cool story to hear.
- [32:24]
A
Well, you know, and here's the thing. I. I wouldn't say that that one story, it fixed everything immediately, but I would say it was like a 50% bump, 70% bump. I mean, it was enough that it made an impact on me. I think it probably also makes a difference in terms of there's a JRR Tolkien quote I love, and it's the praise of the praiseworthy is aboa awards. And maybe the more praiseworthy you see a person or the more important they are in your eyes, if they are telling you you're good enough, you did a great job. That's maybe more meaningful than a random person that really. Or maybe someone you. You don't think that much of. Right.
- [32:56]
B
Anyone we put on a pedestal. Yeah.
- [32:58]
A
And this is what's powerful about God and reading the Bible, is that you have the Most powerful, amazing, loving, virtuous being that's beyond anything we can imagine telling you. You're my child, you're an heir, you're a king, you're a priest, you're a queen. You were created with a purpose. There's nothing like that.
- [33:17]
B
Absolutely. And that's something that's so healing and so profound. Especially, especially the exposure to the repetition and emotion of those experiences, right. Of being able to step outside of those old conditioned patterns. I love that you said that. But to go back to your question, it's that repetition and emotion, just like you said, right? It's that you repeated it. And so that's what gave you that new imprint and that new belief system, the memory transplant. You almost like accidentally did auto suggestion on yourself. So that's a really beautiful place to start for people. And the more emotion you get from it, the more you can see like I'm worthy of connection or love. And that can be through people in your life, people you care about, people you look up to, but it can also be from your relationship to God. All of those things can bring healing to your subconscious mind and painful condition patterns. So, so that's the first major pillar. The second pillar of healing is learning to meet our own needs. I think that so many people go through life and they have no idea what, what their needs are. And we are so unique. And almost going back to your point again, you know, when we can meet our own needs, it's actually how we develop, develop a strong sense of self. Right? Because if you look at somebody, let's say, who's anxiously attached and they have no idea how to meet their needs for validation, for encouragement, for soothing. Well, they need to outsource all the time. So. So it's almost like they go through life going to every gas station with their tank fully on empty. And we will experience. If your gas, if your gas tank on empty and you pull into a gas station, you're a little anxious, you're a little nervous, you're like, it better be open this gas station.
- [34:46]
A
And these are these people that are codependent.
- [34:49]
B
Yes.
- [34:49]
A
Right. It's like they go from. And I'm thinking about, it's like person to person to person, like sitting there saying, please tell me that I'm good enough.
- [34:57]
B
Yes. Yeah, definitely. And interestingly enough, to your point of that this is the codependent side. We have the counter dependent side. So the individual is afraid of closeness. And what's interesting about them is that people think they're good self soothers, they're actually not. They're constantly self numbing. So they will find their soothing through alcohol or food or video games or binge watching television. They're always still avoiding themselves, which means that they never work through their problems because our emotions are guidance mechanisms. They're always giving us feedback. So you know, for example, if I feel, you know, upset about something, I'm going to take that emotion. And I've learned this over the years. I didn't start out this way, but I'm going to take that emotion. Emotion. I'm gonna go, okay, I feel hurt or angry or frustrated about the situation with Bob and I'm gonna be like, okay, so what are my emotions telling me? Maybe I need a boundary, maybe I need to speak up here. Maybe I need to get clearer in this conversation or ask for context about something that I don't understand. So I'm gonna use my emotions as feedback to discover what need I have and then I'm gonna action out that need. And what that does is it allows me as a human being to constantly, constantly solve my problems instead of the problems to either build up or be swept under the rug. And so our emotions, you know, some people get scared of their emotions and they numb them out. Some people try to constantly sue through everybody else, but our emotions are there for us. They're perfect feedback mechanisms, always telling us when something is out of alignment. And I think society and our culture and our conditioning has been, oh, emotions are bad, don't express them. Or emotions are something you'd give to other people to fix for you, you. But the reality is our emotions are telling us about our needs. And if we learn to listen and actually pay attention to the emotional feedback we get, we can actually don't need solve all the problems in our lives. And we keep a clear mind and an open heart that way. And so that's that Next really big pillar of healing is we have to learn to say, okay, if something's making me uncomfortable, this is, this is feedback for me and I can listen to it and unpack. What that is, is action out a solution. And then I'm soothing myself and I'm constantly moving through life in a relationship to myself and in a relationship to growing well.
- [37:00]
A
And this of course is, and this might be another pillar, but if not, then maybe it's encompassed in this. But this is key to relationships. If you ever want to have a good relationship with somebody, whether it's a spouse, someone you're dating, your kids, your parents, friends, co workers, anyone you've got to be able to have a level of self awareness and this emotional intelligence to be able to say, what am I feeling right now? Why am I feeling this? What can I do about it? And then, you know what that allows you to do then is also be able to step and say, what is that person thinking? Are they hurting right now? Okay, that hurt person said something hurtful to me. But I have enough self esteem and enough wisdom to know, okay, I am who I am and I can now reach out to this person and love them and care for them and see how I can meet their need. And so that's one of the powerful things that happens as you're talking about when somebody's able to build that level of self awareness, emotional intelligence of saying, hey, what is this emotion telling me? What do I do about it? It's also key for good communication, right? I mean, it's so, so important 100%.
- [37:57]
B
So you, you touched on it. That's, that's the next pillar. So, so it's actually about communication. And so I, I think you touched on a couple things indirectly, which is the first is that when we have less core wounds, we personalize things significantly less. So when we have, we have the room to say, oh, I can see that person's hurt. If I have core wounds that say I'm not good enough, I'm unlovable, I'm a bad person, and somebody speaks to me in a negative way, my mind goes there.
- [38:26]
A
Let me give you the biggest telltale if somebody is in this phase you're talking about is when they're offended all the time.
- [38:34]
B
Yes, exactly.
- [38:34]
A
I mean, we're living in a world today where everyone is always offended about everything, or at least a lot of people. And those people, I mean, that is a major character flaw. If somebody is constantly offended about something, it is a weak form of character. Very, very weak.
- [38:51]
B
I look at it as, they have a lot of core wounds, they have a lot of trauma, and it is weak in that sense for sure. But I find that the approach to it, if they then think, oh my gosh, I'm weak, if they hear that, then it just adds more core wounding, right? They think, well, I'm weak. On top of all that, they think it's important to be able to say, hey, you probably would happen. And I can actually speak to this, you know, being in practice with people for so many years, what would happen is those people could be really strong, incredible people. But if they had a lot of complex trauma growing up over and over again, then there's meaning behind everything. You know, somebody leaves the laundry room and it means I'm disrespected. Somebody, you know, speaks with a sharp tone, it means I'm unlovable. You know, everybody jumps to the same conclusions of their old core wounds. And that's why it's so important, important to recondition that. So reconditioning those core wounds gives us a room to not personalize things so much. Gives us a room to see outside of ourselves and that little selfish space we can get into in the ego mind. And then when we learn our needs, we can start self soothing. And then what we do next in that third pillar of five is we then learn to communicate those needs in our relationships. And, you know, I'll speak to the communication piece from a personal perspective. I was somebody who was fearful, avoidance. So I was somebody who would meet everybody else's needs almost codependently, never share my own, because I felt like I can't rely on people or open up or share too much. So I was really, you know, I would hold back the things that were vulnerable to me. And I spend a lot of life feeling like I was alone, which was another core wound. Like I had to do everything on my own and then do everything for other people. But there was a very big lack of reciprocity in my relationships. And when I did a lot of core wound work and healing and then learned to meet my own needs, I started feeling like I had a really strong, stable sense of self. But then the next step was, okay, I have to learn to communicate to other people. And something really beautiful happened. I saw that, like, oh, people do love me, People really do care about me and they will put in an effort when I share what I need. But because I was so quiet about that and so, you know, unwilling to be vulnerable, I always felt like nobody really cared that much about what I was experiencing. And everybody always thought I was good because I always seemed good and fine. Oh, she's got it together. She's strong. But it was really beautiful to practice vulnerability practice, you know, also receiving from people and learning to open up and say, hey, I'm having a bad day, I could use a hug, or I could use some encouragement right now, or I could use. And so being able to share that and allow myself to receive co regulation was a really beautiful thing.
- [41:16]
A
I mean, how many people. I'm thinking about, you know, marriages here as an example. I mean, how many people are in marriages right now where they feel like, well, my spouse isn't validating Me enough, isn't supporting me enough? But a lot of it has to take to us. Personal responsibility, not communicating our needs.
- [41:33]
B
It's just, this is the biggest truth ever. I used to joke with people the first year I was in private practice with clients. I used to see people come in and I would get nervous because it was my first year. And people would say, thais, I've been communicating with my husband for years. He never listens to me. He never hears anything that I say. I'm just here as like a Hail Mary, like, last resort. It's not going to work anyways. My relationship's probably over. And I'd be like, oh, no, this is going to be a tough case. And then I would start asking them about how they communicated. And there's three important pillars of communication if you want to communicate properly in a foundational sense. The first one is something called positive framing. Okay. There is a big difference if you want to get seen and heard and your need to actually be listened to by somebody you love. There is a huge difference between saying, you don't care about me, you never spent enough time with me, versus saying, hey, I'm feeling disconnected. I'd love to spend some time together this weekend. Let's plan a fun date, right?
- [42:28]
A
Yes. So different. Yes. So different.
- [42:31]
B
Part of this is because we all got conditioned in a system of punishment, reward, and in classical conditioning. So basically what happens is when we negatively frame all of us, even if we grew up in pretty secure childhood, have this, this tendency to become defensive. We don't hear, oh, my partner wants me to spend more time and misses me and wants to connect. We hear my partner's criticizing me, we go into defense shutdown mode, and we start reacting from our own perspective. So positive framing goes a very long way. I used to have clients, I'd be like, okay, how do you communicate to your partner? And they say, I tell my partner, he doesn't listen to me. He's not making any effort.
- [43:06]
A
It's just, yeah, real communication. Yeah.
- [43:10]
B
It almost honestly doesn't count for anything. Like, I actually think that does more harm. It's almost better to be quiet and say nothing at all.
- [43:16]
A
Yeah.
- [43:17]
B
Which I don't obviously encourage because people need to communicate. But so positive framing goes a long way. Another big thing I would see in my practice is people. I always say to people, you have to paint a picture for what your need looks like. Because you could say to your wife, for example, I need need support. And your wife might all week long take out the garbage and do the chores and do all these things thinking she's supporting you. But maybe for you, support meant validation, words of affirmation, encouragement. And so we have to paint a picture because we all come from separate backgrounds of conditioning, meaning we all see needs in certain ways. We all have our own. I have to make the joke that, like, if you have in a different attachment style than somebody else, it's almost like you have a different subconscious set of rules for what love and connection is supposed to look like. And it would be like you and I are becoming friends and we try to. We want to sit down and play a board game. And, you know, you have the rules for Monopoly and I have the rules for Scrabble.
- [44:12]
A
Like, it's just.
- [44:12]
B
There's going to be friction and confusion sometimes. So communicating by positive framing, by painting a picture of what the need looks like, hey, instead of saying, you don't care about me, you don't spend enough time with me, hey, I'm miss you, I want to spend time with you, then paint a picture. Let's plan a fun date night on the weekend, right? You say that to your spouse instead. So that goes a long way. And then the third thing is for people who are a little less vulnerable or more avoidant to people in the attachment style spectrum. So the fearful avoidance or dismissive avoidance, if you're learning to communicate, real communication isn't I told you once and I'll never have to tell you again. And you should never forget real communication, true embodied communication so that you can receive and connect with people in your life means you can remind people. You can say how you know, because. And I fell into this trap when I started communicating. I used to think I told this person six months ago, if they care, they'll never forget. But it's like, no. We all have decades of our own conditioning of how we think we're supposed to relate to people. So don't be afraid to see your needs through and say, hey, we're really doing a good job of being present or of spending time on weekends. And I noticed we trailed off. Can we go back to that? Don't be afraid to see your needs.
- [45:25]
A
Can I tell you one other thing? That Chelsea does a good job with me on my wife. So she does a good job of. And you know what? When I first saw her doing this, part of me thought, like, okay, she's like, conditioning me. She's training. Interesting. But like, if I do something around the house that is not typically within my. What I spend a lot of time doing Because I work, I travel quite a bit in terms of just doing those things. If I'll do something regularly, I don't know, do the dishes a lot or clean the whole kitchen, she'll say, thank you so much, honey. Or if I'm bringing Arwen out for a day, bring her to a jump park or a playground or we're gone a few hours and she has a ball. You're such a good dad. So I think that makes maybe that's one other thing I think too that, I mean, men really appreciate, I'm sure women do as well, but that sort. And some of it might have to do, hey, what's your love language? But you know, for me, part of mine is words of affirmation. And so I think that that is something that could be maybe a powerful follow up for some people too.
- [46:26]
B
Well, I think that you hit the nail on the head with that, which is for sure, like there's a love language component to that. But I just think when we get into relationships and you're thinking of being in a marriage with somebody for a decade, how do you want to give feedback? Do you want to give feedback and say, oh, you didn't do this, you didn't do that, or do you want to give feedback by saying thank you and positively reinforcing. And honestly, it does have a conditioning perspective because it's a reward path.
- [46:50]
A
Right?
- [46:50]
B
Like there's actually a truth there. But on top of that, it builds a relationship on terms where that's how you communicate. And when I first, you know, was with my husband, I told him, you know, early into dating, I said, like, when we have, have things that we want to go through, first of all, we're not going to just keep the peace and shove things under the rug because that doesn't actually keep the peace. Right. That just causes resentment. We're going to talk about things directly, but we're going to do it in a healthy way. And we're going to do it where when we see the actions, we're going to validate each other for them. We're going to be like, hey, thank you. I noticed you're making an effort because it does, it makes somebody feel like, okay, I'm doing it right, I'm on the right path, on the right track. And then we end up building a foundation, foundation in a relationship where that's how we communicate needs to each other and that's how we follow up. So I love that you said that.
- [47:35]
A
And you alluded to this as well. And I just want people to understand this, too, is that, you know, I remember when. And I think I talked about this recently, too. When Chelsea and I first got married, I. Her love language is quality time. And I thought, well, quality time is, hey, we're sitting on the couch, we're watching a show together. Like, that counts. And then a few weeks in, I started realizing, like, just with certain interactions, I thought, okay, this doesn't count right now. This is not counting. And so I told her. And so we started using these terminologies. Like, I'm like, where's your love tank? Is it half full? Is it 3, 4 full? Where's it at? And at certain times, she'd be like, well, it's like a quarter full. And I'm like, golly, man, I got to keep filling this thing up. And I realized with my wife, like, so my wife, she has a chiropractic degree. She spends a lot of time in the book. She's very, very deep. And so she really likes very deep, intimate conversations, look in the eyes, talking for two hours about everything from theology to physiology. And so it's like, for her, that really fills her up. And so I had to really learn that over time. Of. So for her, if I'm going to reward her in some way, in the way that I should, but for me, it's doing things to where it's rewarding her with quality time or being conscious of, hey, here's how I serve her and love my wife with quality time. It also made me think about this, too. In the Bible, when it talks about love your neighbor as yourself, there's an element there as well, of it is of yourself. But I think part of that meaning is as well, is like, put yourself in that person's shoes. How do they like to be loved? And that's really how you get to truly, there's a word in the Bible in terms of getting to know someone, somebody that's even related to sexual intercourse, but it's also knowing somebody. It's what are their needs? What is their love language? What really fills them up? Getting to know your spouse in that way is obviously a big thing.
- [49:25]
B
You touch on the love language, and this is such an interesting topic of conversation. Dr. Gary Chapman talks about the five love languages. And for anybody who doesn't know what they are, they're quality time, physical touch, words of affirmation, acts of service, and gifts. And I used that framework for a long time with clients. And then what I actually learned is that our needs land more deeply than our love languages because they're more specific.
- [49:52]
A
I can see that. Yeah.
- [49:53]
B
So for myself, I actually, you know, similar to your wife, I like deep conversation and I'm very present and things like this. And I realized with my husband, I realized that, okay, you know, I would always say quality time, but just I had such a laugh when you said that, like, sitting on the couch watching a television show doesn't count. It just doesn't land. And I realized, okay, yes, it's quality time is like the umbrella. But what I actually need is emotional connection and depth and the ability to be present with each other and share vulnerably. And those are needs. And so I realized, oh, I'm not going to communicate through love languages anymore. I'm just going to go to needs because it just helps us feel more connected. And maybe what I'll do is share a little PDF of all the most common relationships that you can post on the show.
- [50:36]
A
Well, even getting in with my wife, Chelsea. Listen, we'll have Chelsea on. Chelsea's fine with me sharing all this too, in terms of. And she's happy to share mine here, too. But for her, I think it would be very much. We're on the same page. We're talking about something theologically. We're on the same page. We're talking about this thing together. That is anyway. But yeah, it can get obviously more specific. And so, yeah, so we'll leave this in the show notes here, what Ty shared here on this PDF, in terms of how do you really deeply connect with and serving the person you love? And listen, this is with your spouse, but it's with everybody. I'm thinking about one of my best friends, Dan, and then Jordan. It's like, okay, for those guys, there are very specific things that I can do to serve them and love them and help fulfill their dreams. And the same thing with my two daughters. You know, everybody's unique.
- [51:23]
B
Absolutely. Friends, family members, co workers, everything.
- [51:26]
A
Do you think it's an element of pretty hard today, though? I mean, one of the things I think that most relationships, there's a lot of superficial stuff going on. People are so busy today that I think that there's probably, like, I saw a study recently where they asked a group of large, very large group of people, how many of you feel like you have a best friend or a group of very close friends and it's not very high. There's a lot of people who feel like, oh, I know a lot of people. I have a lot of friends, but do I have any really deep like that? Are there for me, when I need them, I can call them anytime I can have a really deep conversation with me. That fills me up. I don't know that there's a lot of people that can say that.
- [52:03]
B
There was a study that was done by Julian Holt in 2010, I believe, and I think it had 280,000 participants, and they studied loneliness and the impact of loneliness on our physical health. And they actually equated it to basically smacking or smoking a pack of cigarettes.
- [52:19]
A
Yes.
- [52:20]
B
So crazy. And then somebody actually did a study on that study and said, well, what is loneliness and what constitutes as loneliness? And to your point, a lot of people reported having a social group or a community or people around them, but feeling extremely lonely. And what they found was, was the meaningful difference was the level of vulnerability people shared in their relationships.
- [52:43]
A
I love that. That's so good. Well, on the other end, there's a Harvard study, it's almost 90 years old, that showed the number one factor for longevity is having close, meaningful, supportive relationships. So, I mean, one can take years off your life, like smoking a pack of cigarettes a day. The other one is that having connections is the greatest predictor of lifespan.
- [53:02]
B
Wow. And that vulnerability comes through depth. It comes through presence. It comes through sharing. It comes through being able to talk about our needs with each other.
- [53:09]
A
I wonder if this is why women live longer than men. I mean, there's probably some other things, but I just want to share. I think that vulnerability tends to be something I think generally, you know, women tend to be better at than men, you know, in terms of. And women tend to live a couple years, you know, live longer than men.
- [53:25]
B
And in our society, it's been conditioned that way for a long time. Right. You know, you get a lot of men growing, growing up. It's like, don't show your emotions. Don't be a crybaby. Toughen up. Be a man. And it's a lot of that messaging that you get. And I think there's a place in the world absolutely, for grit and toughness, being able to persevere. And I think that's really important. But they don't have to be mutually exclusive things. It doesn't have to be grit and toughness or vulnerability. We can be somebody who knows how to be tough and grind and push through hard moments and be strong, but also have that. That attitude of vulnerability in our relationship, relationships and how we carry ourselves.
- [53:58]
A
Walk me through the last thing here. If somebody's in here right now, they listen to this podcast, they're saying, wow, this is really powerful. Because by the way, this has been a really amazing show. You've brought so much wisdom, so much great advice here. What are some things people can start to do today? If somebody's saying, you know what, I do have a little bit of all of this and I want to get emotionally healthy, I want to be able to break through these barriers. What are the things that. I know you've already given a lot of practical advice, but what are the step 1, 2, 3 or what are the things they need to do?
- [54:29]
B
Before I summarize a couple steps, can I tell you the other two pillars really quick?
- [54:32]
A
Oh yeah, yeah. Yes.
- [54:33]
B
We only did three of five. The other two will be really brief. But number four of five is regulating your nervous system. And you probably have a lot to say about that as well. But it's so important if we come from a background or a set of traumatic experiences, experiences where we're spending way more time in sympathetic nervous system fight or flight mode. And fight or flight is really fight, flight, freeze or fawn, chronic people pleasing. And so if we're constantly coming from that space, I mean that has a huge impact on our physical health and well being. But it has such an impact. There's a lot of research that also shows when we're in sympathetic nervous system too much, we even misread people's facial expressions. We assume the worst. We tend to misread their micro expressions, their body language, their tone of voice. And what we want to be able to do is to get into parasympathetic nervous system. And this is where I really think a relationship to God has a powerful impact as well. Because this can be through things like meditation and mindfulness and prayer, or even through service and contribution. Research shows that we're more likely to be operating from a parasympathetic state. When we're contributing, we're often co regulating more effectively. And so that's a huge, huge pillar of our actual healing and growth as well.
- [55:43]
A
That's so good. It's so good. There are a lot of things you can do, nutrition. But I do, I actually, I do believe that prayer, meditation, those practices, serving others is the best place, best way to get in that parasympathetic state.
- [55:53]
B
Yeah, absolutely. And if we can train our body to be there for 21 days or more. So if we can have, you know, there's this window when we wake up in the morning where we're producing more alpha and theta brainwaves. And so first hour that we wake up and last hour that we go to sleep, we're more suggestible, meaning that our subconscious mind is more open to being reconditioned. And so if we can have like a daily practice during those windows of time, we're actually training our body and mind to connect better in that way and more likely to build neural pathways that stick and have that become our new subconscious comfort zone.
- [56:23]
A
That's so good.
- [56:24]
B
Yeah. So, and, and then the last pillar is healthy boundary setting in our lives. And yeah, you know, I used to think of as somebody who was kind of codependent in the past and, you know, I used to think that boundaries were this separation. But a boundary is adjoining because a boundary isn't just, oh, I'm just gonna show myself when it's a yes and I'm just gonna say yes to everybody. No, a boundary is being able to let people truly know you in your totality. Let people know your good days and your bad days, your yeses and your nos, the things that make you feel comfortable and uncomfortable. And that's really, you know, going back to that topic of vulnerability, it's vulnerable to set boundaries because we're sharing, you know, hey, this is not comfortable for me, or this is my domain, or this is where I have to draw the line. And we're letting ourselves be seen and heard and known in that. And so that's not just something that's really important for healing and for our physical well being and, and you know, actual physical health. But it's something that's so important for our relationship so we can be truly known and connected for our personal well being, the relationship we have to ourselves. And I also think that that's such an important part of our relationship to God, because if we can have boundaries around who we are, we have time and space to do things that truly nurture us.
- [57:32]
A
Well, you know, we read in the Bible that Jesus woke up early and he went to pray. You know, it's just modeling what he did. And I know for myself, I started noticing this in college when I woke up in the morning and I spent about anywhere from 15 minutes to an hour, even if it's five minutes. But I spent time doing my spiritual triathlon. It's where I really spent time being grateful. I read my Bible and I'd spend some time in prayer, meditation, and I would do that in the mornings. And I thought, I mean, the way that it impacted the rest of my day of me having this sort of filled with the Holy Spirit, this present time, this consciousness of this emotion, this spiritual intelligence of myself, and others. And what I was called to do that day, I mean, it just literally transformed my entire day. So I truly believe one of the most powerful things you can do to transform yourself, as Thais is talking about, is block off, even if it's just 10 minutes in the morning, and spend time, read a few Bible verses, pray, meditate on what God is telling you, and then go on with your day. But it really is such a powerful, powerful practice. Tyler, I want to say thanks so much for coming on. I mean, I love this conversation. You've done such an amazing job of sharing how we can break through these emotional, mental, spiritual boundaries and really create true connection with people. And I love your teachings on attachment theory. It's really, I think, getting good at getting to the root of the issue. And one of the things I always try and do via being a practitioner is getting to the root of the problems via health. And I love how you do the very same thing as a counselor, helping people get to the root of these emotional issues and have a real practical way for them to be set free and to live their best life. So thanks so much for coming on. Where can people learn more about you and your work and what you're up to?
- [59:11]
B
Thank you so much. So I will share, but I just want to say really briefly. Sure, I told you this before the podcast, but you were my first health teacher, so you know, I found your work online and what I actually loved about it is that you got to the root of things as well. So I always appreciated that about your work and so honored to be here with you. And then where they can learn about myself is I put daily videos on YouTube. It's personal development school. DashThaisgibson I'm on Instagram, which is personal developmentschool and and I have a free attachment quiz@personaldevelopmentschool.com awesome.
- [59:41]
A
I want to encourage you guys, check out Thais YouTube page, her Instagram page, also her website. Again, she's putting out incredible content information. Thank you so much for coming on today. And I just want to say, hey, thanks everybody for tuning in here to the Dr. Josh Axe Show. Remember, each and every week I'm coming to you with content information on how to grow in body, mind and spirit and take your health and your life to the next level. Also, I just want to say thank you to all of you who are on mission with me, with Thais, with all of us to help people heal, to help people transform. So thank you for sharing this. Thank you for commenting and liking and thank you, all of you who are subscribed here. It allows us to bring on amazing guests like Thais here. And like, we've had Carrie Underwood and Dave Ramsey and Mark Hyman and so many others. So I just want to say, hey, thank you so much here for being part of this, the show. And I'll see you on the next episode.