The NEW Food Pyramid and What is REALLY in our food

Summary

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Podcast Summary: The Dr. Josh Axe Show

Episode: The NEW Food Pyramid and What is REALLY in our food

Host: Dr. Josh Axe
Guest: Courtney Swan (MS Nutrition, creator of Real Foodology)
Date: January 29, 2026

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Overview

In this insightful episode, Dr. Josh Axe welcomes nutritionist Courtney Swan to break down two critical issues in American nutrition: the new food pyramid and hidden dangers in our food supply—especially glyphosate and ultra-processed foods. Courtney provides expert insights on what these changes mean, how to read labels, the movement for cleaner public nutrition, and her personal journey to pregnancy at age 41. The discussion touches on government policy, food industry tactics, practical grocery shopping strategies, and the empowering message to trust real, unprocessed food.

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Key Topics & Discussion Points

1. Dangers of Glyphosate in the Food Supply

[05:09–14:41]

• Glyphosate’s Prevalence & Harm:
  Dr. Axe emphasizes glyphosate as the most-used herbicide, sprayed on non-organic corn, soy, and other crops, with residues found everywhere—from urine to rainwater to breast milk.

  “Glyphosate…is incredibly harmful to the human body. It actually changes your gut microbiome in a very negative way. It’s very toxic to the liver.” – Dr. Josh Axe [10:49]

• Court Cases and Industry Tactics:
  Courtney details Monsanto (acquired by Bayer) losing multiple suits over glyphosate’s link to cancer, leading to $11 billion in settlements. Chemical giants now lobby for a legal “liability immunity shield," modeled after vaccine legislation, to prevent lawsuits if people get sick from their chemicals.

• Legislative Updates:
  Attempt to sneak glyphosate liability protection into federal bills was recently blocked. The issue is pending before the Supreme Court—potentially using industry-authored, fraudulent science.

  “Monsanto ghost wrote this report to make it look as though glyphosate is not as detrimental...and then they took this around to governing bodies like the EPA.” – Courtney Swan [13:08]

• Scientific Manipulation:
  Both agree much published research is industry-biased or fraudulent, skewing public and policymaker perceptions.

2. The New Food Pyramid & Dietary Guidelines

[14:41–21:20]

• Shift Towards Real Food:
  Both Courtney and Dr. Axe commend the new pyramid for emphasizing “real food,” limiting added sugar (especially for children), and no longer demonizing red meat.

  “I cannot believe that our government just said eat more real food.” – Courtney Swan [15:05]

• Ultra-Processed Food Pushback:
  Courtney criticizes former food policy for being a marketing playbook for Big Food with heavy processed foods. The shift to warning against ultra-processed food is overdue.

• Nuance Around Saturated Fat:
  Discussion clarifies the guidelines’ nuanced stance: not a free-for-all on red meat/butter/eggs, but ending blanket avoidance of these foods and urging individualized approaches, especially in light of personal markers (CRP, A1C, etc.).

• Lasting Impact:
  Courtney enthuses that this represents the long-term shift she built her Real Foodology platform around.

3. Food Industry Deceptions & Reading Food Labels

[34:58–42:22]

• Label-Reading Rules:
  Courtney gives practical “real food” rules:

  • Would your great-grandmother recognize it as food?
  • Ignore front-of-package marketing (“billboard for the company”)—always inspect the ingredients list.
  • If the label lists something you wouldn’t find in the grocery aisles (e.g., BHT, mono- & diglycerides), don’t buy it!

• Multi-Sugar Trick:
  Dr. Axe notes how companies use variations of sugar (honey, coconut sugar, maple syrup) to hide actual content and push sugar lower in the ingredients.

  “They do this…to push [sugar] lower on the label, so it’s not the first ingredient.” – Dr. Axe [36:20]

• Ultra-Processed Foods:
  They explain the difference between processed (“bread like they made in biblical times”) and ultra-processed (“emulsifiers, natural flavors, preservatives”), with the latter being the true hazard.

• Common Pitfalls at Health Food Stores:
  Even at Whole Foods, most crackers, cookies, breads, etc., are filled with unnecessary additives and “health-washed” ingredients.

4. Food Dyes Ban and the Maha Movement

[22:23–25:45]

• Banning Food Dyes in Public Food:
  Recent policy wins have eliminated food dyes in school and institutional food, crucial for child health and reducing hyperactivity.

  “Over a million children are being fed every single day in our public school system…with food dyes. And we know that food dyes are having an effect on hyperactivity.” – Courtney Swan [22:23]

• Broader Change is Slow:
  Courtney acknowledges the slow grind of government reform, expressing optimism at the pace and first public admissions of America’s health crisis.

5. Infant Formula Reform

[25:46–30:32]

• Toxic Ingredients in Formula:
  Both are alarmed that U.S. infant formula is mostly corn syrup solids and canola oil, plus non-bioavailable vitamins; the standards haven’t been reviewed since 1984.

  “The first two ingredients are generally...it's corn syrup solids and canola oil. It's just crazy.” – Courtney Swan [25:59]

• Call for Overhaul:
  They urge mothers not to feel guilt (”just do your best”) but stress the need for urgent reform, since vulnerable populations (on WIC, etc.) get the worst formulas.

6. Education for Doctors & The Role of Public Policy

[30:32–31:15]

• Nutrition in Medical Training:
  Hope that future regulations will require more nutrition education for doctors, shifting health care from “sick care” to prevention.

• Frustration with the EPA:
  Courtney is critical of the EPA for rolling back drinking water and pesticide safety rules, using loopholes and redefinitions to greenlight “forever chemicals.”

7. Personal Food Stories & Raising Healthier Kids

[42:22–49:16]

• Courtney’s Childhood:
  Raised by a “MAHA mom,” she grew up eating from-scratch, unprocessed foods—despite her own childhood resistance and envy for processed snacks. Eventually, her holistic upbringing paid off, especially after college junk food binges led to new health problems and a 180° shift.

• Advice to Parents:
  Both encourage parents fighting the processed food tide:

  “Your kids might be fighting you…know that you’re up against a beast of a marketing campaign. Your kids will be so grateful when they grow up…” – Courtney Swan [47:17]

8. Pregnancy, Hormones, and Women’s Health in the 40s

[51:00–59:41]

• Courtney’s Pregnancy at 41:
  She shares her personal experience:

  • Pushed into prioritizing career in youth, but grateful for holistic health foundation.
  • Discourages internalizing the medical system’s “geriatric pregnancy” fearmongering (officially starts at 35), advocating instead for listening to your own health, nourishing your body, and rejecting the “doom narrative.”

  “If you do the right things, you really take care of your health...There are so many things that you can control and that you can do.” – Courtney Swan [54:27]

• Choosing Midwife over Conventional OB:
  Reports a far more peaceful, supportive experience. The midwife focuses on monitoring health, not predicting problems based on age alone.

• Pressure and Peace:
  Dr. Axe highlights the need to focus on hope, encouragement, and God’s design versus a fear-based system.

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Notable Quotes

• On Glyphosate:

  “This is a report that the EPA used as their evidence that glyphosate does not cause harm to the human body...Monsanto ghost wrote this report...”
  — Courtney Swan [13:08]

• On Food Label Reading:

  “The front of the label is a billboard for the company. Don’t use that as a guiding force.”
  — Courtney Swan [35:00]

  “If there is an ingredient in there that you could not physically go buy while you’re in the grocery store...that is a clear indicator that you want to put it back on the shelf.”
  — Courtney Swan [37:31]

• On Parenting & Food Culture:

  “I am one of those kids...I had a come to Jesus moment in college...and I started realizing, okay, I think my mom might actually be onto something here and did a full 180.”
  — Courtney Swan [46:50]

• On Pregnancy and Medical Fear:

  “The medical system really preys on women’s insecurities and fears...Going the midwife way, my age has not come up once.”
  — Courtney Swan [56:45]

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Key Timestamps

• Glyphosate threat & legal battles: [05:09–14:41]
• New Food Pyramid breakdown: [14:41–21:20]
• Food dyes ban & Maha movement: [22:23–25:45]
• Infant formula & WIC issues: [25:46–30:32]
• EPA, “forever chemicals” criticism: [31:15–33:06]
• How to read food labels: [34:58–42:22]
• Ultra-processed food pitfalls: [39:20–41:18]
• Courtney’s upbringing & parent advice: [42:22–49:16]
• Pregnancy at 41, overcoming “geriatric” narrative: [51:00–59:41]

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Rapid Fire Answers & Practical Tips

Q: Top 3 Ingredients to Watch For?

[60:15]

• “Look at the oil—avoid canola, cottonseed, soybean oil.
  Watch for sugar content and type—avoid corn syrup and high-processed sweeteners.
  Watch out for mono and diglycerides—they’re basically trans fat.”
  — Courtney Swan

Q: Advice for Women Trying to Get Pregnant in Their 40s?

[61:18]

• “Cancel out all the noise...trust your body...focus on whole, real foods.”
  — Courtney Swan

Q: Top 5 Foods for Hormone Balance:

[62:28]

• Extra-virgin olive oil
• Butter and A2 dairy from grass-fed sources
• Salmon
• Unrefined carbs (oats, sourdough, sweet potatoes)
• Red meat

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Episode Tone & Language

• Warm, empowering, and practical
• Direct but nuanced about policy and health controversies
• Blends hard data, personal stories, and actionable advice
• Both hosts speak passionately for consumer awareness and changing public health

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Final Takeaway

At the core, Dr. Axe and Courtney Swan urge listeners to trust real, whole foods, equip themselves with label-reading skills, advocate for cleaner food policy, and tune out fear-based nutrition. Whether dealing with new dietary guidelines, navigating pregnancy in your 40s, or shopping in a world of “healthwashed” marketing, the answer is simple—but powerful: keep it real.

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Find Courtney Swan:

• Instagram: @realfoodology
• Podcast: Real Foodology
• Website: realfoodology.com

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Listener Call to Action:
Share the episode to help raise awareness about glyphosate, food policy reform, and real food—a movement for everyone’s health.

Transcript

[Courtney Swan]

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[Dr. Josh Axe]

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[Dr. Josh Axe]

What are some of your rules in teaching people how to read food labels?

[Courtney Swan]

Whenever you're trying to decide if you're gonna put something in your cart, just simply ask yourself, if my great grandmother was to time travel and join me in the grocery store right now, would she even know what this is?

[Dr. Josh Axe]

What are your thoughts on the new food pyramid?

[Courtney Swan]

My first initial thought was, I cannot believe that our government just said eat more real food. People are taking that and saying, okay, now the dietary guidelines are saying just have a total free for all. Just eat all the red meat and eat all the but and eat all the eggs that you want. And that's actually not what the dietary guidelines are saying. We never heard Obama say it. Trump never said it his first four years. Biden never said a word. And I just kept sitting here going, Americans are really sick and this is a big deal. We're talking 74% of our youth 18 to 24 are ineligible for military service. Like we're starting to talk about national security threat. And everyone ignored it until finally Trump and Bobby Kennedy got on a political stage. And they said Americans are sick and we're gonna fix it. And I mean just that alone to me. What do they say in the step program? The first step is admitting we have a problem. Olivia Culpo here to tell you all about the launch of the new Abercrombie spring denim collection made the way denim should feel. Their denim has always been a staple in my wardrobe and has a wide range of fits, styles and washes. Every jean is available in both their classic fit and Viral Curve Love Shop.

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[Dr. Josh Axe]

On today's episode, I've brought in an expert in nutrition. She's a master's in nutrition, Courtney Swan. And and we're gonna be talking about how to heal your hormones, how to get pregnant if you're so called geriatric, which is 35 and older. She's 41 and pregnant, which is so amazing. Some of the things she's done and the wisdom she's bringing there, how to balance women's hormones. We'll get in that. Today we're gonna talk about the most dangerous chemical in our food supply and what you need to know about it. We'll talk about reading food labels. This is really important. They're sneaking some things in even in health food stores you need to be aware of. And so much more. Welcome to the Dr. Josh Axe Show. And Courtney, welcome to the show.

[Courtney Swan]

Thank you so much for having me.

[Dr. Josh Axe]

Well, it's so fun. You know, we're on a text thread together with, you know, Cali Means and Vonnie Hari and just a number of other, you know, health influencers. Alex Clark, we're constantly, it's probably the text that I'm on the most that's kind of like beeping on my phone. But there are so many changes constantly happening in health care today. You know, we've talked about everything from I want to talk about glyphosate Today I want to talk about a lot of the changes that have happened and what the Maha movement has done so far this year, what the up and coming changes are going to be, some of the things we think RFK Jr. Is going to be working on changing here. And just also, you know, some of the health myths. I also want to talk about women's hormones. I know you're pregnant. Congratulations.

[Courtney Swan]

Thank you.

[Dr. Josh Axe]

So excited for you there as well today, too. So there's a lot to discuss, though. But I want to start off with glyphosate, because this is a chemical that is really harmful to everybody, yet it's still something that's rampant and being used everywhere. And I know right now that a lot of these companies, most people don't realize this, that there is a push right now for glyphosate to be protected, these companies to be protected against the side effects of glyphosate. Tell us more about that.

[Courtney Swan]

Yeah, so I keep saying that we're in the fight of our lifetime with this right now. And this has been an ongoing fight for a long time. Just to be clear, just to dispel some myths, I'm seeing some stuff online from people saying, oh, you know, of course the administration would let this through. Unfortunately, we've been fighting this for a long time. So I started real foodology 14 years ago. And one of the main reasons that I started my platform that I started on were two things. One, we need to be eating real food, more real food. And the second one was my concern about glyphosate. So this has been a fight that we've been fighting for a long time. There's a company called Monsanto, and they were bought by Bayer back in 2018. And they create their hero product, which a lot of people know is Roundup. But Roundup is essentially glyphosate. And in 2015, the World Health Organization, International Agency for Research on Cancer actually sounded the alarm on glyphosate and said that it's a probable human carcinogen. Now, just to be clear with that probable thing there, when they put that on there, they're not definitively 100% saying that it causes cancer, but what they are saying is that we, we have enough data to show that we are pretty positive that it does.

[Dr. Josh Axe]

Yeah.

[Courtney Swan]

So it basically what that means is it was essentially a statement in 2015 that we know that this causes cancer. Now fast forward to when Monsanto was bought by Bayer in 2018. Shortly afterwards, they found themselves in litigation after litigation with many farmers that were claiming that they were getting non Hodgkin's lymphoma by using these products on their farmlands. And just to back up a little bit, glyphosate is an herbicide that's widely used in our food, and it's so ubiquitous now, you mentioned this that we are finding it in women's placentas, we're finding it in breast milk, we're finding it in sperm, we're finding it in Americans urine. In fact, there was a study that was done a couple years ago, and they found that around 81% of Americans have glyphosate in their urine.

[Dr. Josh Axe]

Wow.

[Courtney Swan]

We're finding it in rainwater. And, you know, we can get to this later. I don't share this to scare people because I don't want everybody to put their heads in the sand and be terrified of it. But this is a really big deal. And what's happening currently right now, and what I said is that we're in this fight of our lifetime is that these companies, primarily Monsanto, Bayer, so what happened when they were going and, you know, getting involved in all these litigations with the farmers that were suing them because that they're getting cancer, these farmers are winning time and time and time again. So Monsanto has spent about $11 billion, Bayer spent about $11 billion now on these litigations. So they finally decided last year that they were gonna go to the federal government and look for immunity. Now, what this means is if your audience is aware of what the 1986 Vaccine Liability Shield is, it's essentially the exact same thing. So in 1986, the vaccine companies were getting caught up in a lot of litigations, and they went to the federal government and they said, hey, we are not gonna be able to continue making these vaccines if you do not give us some sort of immunity shield. So what that means is that if your child or yourself gets harmed by getting a vaccination, you cannot help, you cannot hold these companies liable, so you can't sue them. So now in 2026, we have several chemical companies that have all gotten together. Monsanto, Bayer is kind of leading the charge on this. But there's also, you know, Kim, China, Sagenta. It's all these major manufacturers of these chemicals that we're using on our farmland. They are going to the federal government and they are looking for a immunity liability shield. Liability immunity shield, meaning that if I or you or a farmer using their chemicals were to get cancer from their products, we cannot hold them liable.

[Dr. Josh Axe]

Yeah. Wow.

[Courtney Swan]

And it has ramped up so much recently in just the last. I was literally before we recorded, I was checking my, my text thread that I'm in with a bunch of really amazing women that I'm working with right now in this coalition on this. Kelly Ryerson, glyphosate girl. Alexandra Muniz, who is a toxicologist. Alex Clark, Vani Hari. We're all working tirelessly to try to block this because what's happening at this very moment is they, they tried to slide this into the appropriation spending bill last week. It was under something called section 4, 5, 3. We were actually able to successfully block this. Now, I think people, a lot of people probably understand this by now, but a lot of companies will slide in a little thing into, you know, a really big. So let's say it's like 200 pages in hopes that it will just get voted through. They don't even know that it's on there. And then it gets voted through. So one of the things that the chemical companies are trying to do right now is they are trying to be very sneaky and slide into bills where people don't know. So we were able to successfully block it going into the spending bill. There is wording in the farm bill right now that's going to be voted on. And probably I don't want to be quoted exactly on this, but I think in February is when they're going to vote on the farm bill. So that's already in there. Another way that they're doing this is they decided to go to the Supreme Court. And last Friday, they took this to the Supreme Court and the Supreme Court voted on whether or not they are going to just take the case on themselves. Meaning that Bayer Monsanto is going to present their case to the Supreme Court, and then the Supreme Court's going to decide whether or not they're going to give them this liability shield. So as of right now, it's now Monday. We were supposed to find out the results of it, which is why I was checking my text, but we have not heard back yet. And whether or not the Supreme Court, Supreme Court is going to take that case?

[Dr. Josh Axe]

Well, I think it's important to understand that. I know I've done entire shows on this. I've talked about it frequently. Glyphosate, it is incredibly harmful to the human body. And probably the area where it's the most harmful is the gut microbiota. You know, it actually changes and alters your gut microbiome in a very negative way. It's very toxic to the liver. So your liver and your gut are going to be harmed by that. And I want to mention this, I also, I care for a lot of patients with a number of different issues. Hypothyroidism. One, in order to convert T4 to T3, this active form of hormone, you need your liver and your gut. That actually is what's converting T4 to T3. So people with hypothyroidism, it's going to hurt dramatically. People with gut and GI issues, increased risk of cancer. So glyphosate is the most. It's in Roundup. I think it is the most commonly sprayed chemical herbicide used in all of the United States today on things like corn and soy and a lot of our food supply. And anytime you're eating produce, for the most part that's not organic there, it's going to be sprayed with Roundup, which is glyphosate. So it is absolutely everywhere. I think they also use it today on golf courses.

[Courtney Swan]

Yes. They're spraying it in children's playgrounds or in schools.

[Dr. Josh Axe]

And so it's incredibly toxic. And so what's happening, as Courtney's mentioning is, you know, these companies are trying to get immunity to where you can't even sue them. And they're completely protected. And so it's something we all need to be aware of and speak out on. And if you in watching this podcast, I'd encourage you to share this so people know what's actually going on here with glyphosate. And Corny, thanks so much for just being on the front lines of trying to block it and make changes. So grateful for that.

[Courtney Swan]

Thank you. And actually, there's one more thing that I actually, I forgot to mention, and this is probably probably the most important part of this case, actually. So there was something that we are referring to as the Monsanto paper or the Monsanto report that Monsanto, it was just retracted actually by the journal that printed this because we, they were able to prove that Monsanto Ghost wrote this report. Now, what's really important to know about this report is this is the report that the EPA used as their evidence that glyphosate does not cause harm to the human body. Now, again, I'm going to repeat that Monsanto Ghost wrote this report to make it look as though glyphosate is not as detrimental to our health as it actually is. And then they took this around to all of our, you know, governing bodies, for example, the epa, and they said, look like, here we are, we're Proving that it doesn't cause cancer, it doesn't cause harm. And this journal actually retracted this a couple months ago. And they said that, you know, they found out that Monsanto Ghost wrote this and it's actually not correct science. So if the Supreme Court decides to take this up, they are taking up a case based on fraudulent science.

[Dr. Josh Axe]

Wow.

[Courtney Swan]

It's a really big deal.

[Dr. Josh Axe]

And one thing people don't realize, you know, there is a study on studies and it said that about 50% of studies are false. And the reason being is there's been so much cherry picking of data, too small of groups, but also just a bias placed into that of paying scientists or hiring people that are going to make the study says what it wants. So when we even hear that glyphosate has been shown to likely cause cancer, the fact that it's not absolutely that it causes cancer is only because so many studies have been funded by these pharmaceutical companies to try and prove that it doesn't.

[Courtney Swan]

Exactly.

[Dr. Josh Axe]

By using biased research.

[Courtney Swan]

Exactly. And I would say that when you look at the results of all of these court cases that they've been in since 2018, and every single time they've sided with the farmers and the people that are claiming that they got cancer because in the court of law, there has been enough evidence to prove that these cancers were caused by glyphosate. That alone tells you enough that we need to know.

[Dr. Josh Axe]

Yeah. Yeah. Well, this is obviously something big that we'll all be. Be. Be fighting with you on. So thanks so much. You know, Robert F. Kennedy Jr. Has done so many great things in the Maha movement. I've been really encouraged to see some of the things he's done. One of the things that recently came out was the new food pyramid. What are your thoughts on the new food pyramid?

[Courtney Swan]

My first initial thought was, I cannot believe that our government just said eat more real food.

[Dr. Josh Axe]

Yeah.

[Courtney Swan]

For context. For context. For people that are new to me and my work. I created my brand, Real Foodology, 14 years ago. I made up that name simply because I was in school getting my master's of science in nutrition and I needed an outlet to share everything I was learning. And when I was coming with ideas of what I wanted to name my business, I just kept coming back to real food because I kept thinking, what's going to be longevity forever in the nutrition and nutrition and health space? What am I always recommending to people get back to eating real food. So I just was blown away that we have a government that's now saying we need to be eating more real food. That has been my guiding force for the last 14 years. And it really is my overarching message to everybody is that just at the end of the day, if you're eating more real food, you're going to see amazing effects in your health. So that was, I was very, very excited about that. And actually overall, I really don't have very many large criticisms about the food pyramid or the new dietary guidelines.

[Dr. Josh Axe]

Pretty good.

[Courtney Swan]

I love that they came out and that they said that there's no amount of added sugar that's healthy for people and especially for children. In fact, I don't know if people know this, but in the prior dietary guidelines, they actually said that a certain amount of added sugar is healthy for children under two, which I just think is crazy. Let's see, what else did I love? You know, one thing that I wish that they would differentiate between. So they came out and they said that they're not villainizing red meat anymore, which again, I'm, I'm really excited about that. They also came out and said they're not in support of ultra processed foods and we need to be limiting that, which is amazing because the dietary guidelines before that, they really were a marketing playbook for the ultra processed food food companies. And in fact, if you look at the 2020 dietary guidelines the committee had, 95% of the committee had conflicts of interest with big pharma and big food. And then when you look at the dietary guidelines, they were written largely by industry and there was no wording whatsoever about avoiding ultra processed foods. In fact, a lot of the guidelines, one of them being, you know, eat low fat, really gave the food companies, what's the word, I guess, leverage to create all of these low fat products, then had emulsifiers and fillers and other things to make up for the fact that there was no fat in there anymore, there was lower in fat. So all of those I'm very excited about. I do wish that they would differentiate between quality of meat and say, you.

[Dr. Josh Axe]

Know, move away from conventional versus grass fed organic.

[Courtney Swan]

Yeah, exactly. So I think there was.

[Dr. Josh Axe]

It's hard to do everything on a food pyramid, but I'm with you.

[Courtney Swan]

It is. Yeah. And I've seen some pushback as far as the, the guidelines around saturated fat. Yeah, People have been fighting about it.

[Dr. Josh Axe]

That's been the single biggest pushback is that.

[Courtney Swan]

Exactly. And you know, I've been seeing from some people saying, oh, well, it doesn't make sense because they're, they're saying to eat red meat and they're saying to eat more eggs. And you know, they're saying that butter is back on the table, but then they're saying limit to under 10% of saturated fat. And I will admit I'm not an expert on this specifically, but I would say go check out. Max Lugaver has been talking about this a lot. I don't know if you've been seeing his post, but he actually outlined what a week's worth of eating would look like if you're eating eggs, butter, meat, and still trying to stay around 10% saturated fat. And he showed people what that looks like. And I think that what the discrepancy here is, people are, are taking that and saying, okay, now the dietary guidelines are saying, just have a total free for all. Just eat all the red meat and eat all the butter and eat all the eggs that you want. And that's actually not what the dietary guidelines are saying. They're saying within this realm, be careful about your saturated fat. Which I have a little bit of a different opinion on that, But I think it's nuanced. They're just saying you don't need to avoid them entirely. Which before we were saying, you know, avoid red meat, avoid butter. And what happened is that then everybody was going to ultra processed foods instead, and they were going to things like canola oil.

[Dr. Josh Axe]

That's right. Yeah, that's exactly right. Well, I, I, yeah, I'm a fan of it as well. You know, it's interesting. Your brand's Real Foodology. The first book I ever wrote in my, my, when I really started my career, my first year was focused on eat real food. So I wrote a book called the Real Food Diet Cookbook. Because it really is one of the most basic things of, like, a lot of people, they're not eating food today if you're going to a fast food restaurant. You know, I remember there was a, a lot of these fast food chains, they were putting out certain, like milkshakes. And I remember looking at a. What's in a, like McDonald's strawberry milkshake. Here's the crazy thing. There were not strawberries in it. Zero strawberries at all.

[Courtney Swan]

It's like strawberry natural flavor.

[Dr. Josh Axe]

Yeah, exactly. So, you know, these things aren't real. And so anytime you're eating something that's not real, it's going to be detrimental to your house. So I do think that's the first step in the right direction is you're eating mostly food, getting rid of ultra processed food. So this is just a major, major Upgrade here to the, you know, food pyramid of eating six. To think about the old food pyramid, six to 11 servings of grains a day and then sugar being actually on. There is something you should be eating for certain demographics. And the fact that people are criticizing what, again, the, the saturated fat thing is debatable. That's the only thing. And that's the one little criticism. Outside of that. It's, it's, it's pretty, it's pretty wonderful.

[Courtney Swan]

Yeah. And you said this on, on my podcast that we just recorded. And I'm going to reiterate this. The saturated fat one is really tricky to put an overarching blanket statement for every single person.

[Dr. Josh Axe]

Yeah.

[Courtney Swan]

You just, you need to work with a practitioner that knows what they're doing and that can do blood work and know exactly what your numbers look like and then tailor the diet to you because it's going to look a little bit different for different people. And if your CRP is really low and your A1C is really low.

[Dr. Josh Axe]

That's right.

[Courtney Swan]

Then it's not going to be as much of a concern for someone that's maybe, you know, overweight and diabetic.

[Dr. Josh Axe]

Yeah, yeah. You hit on those markers. Yeah, it's, it's really, it's, it's, it's, it's CRP, it's APOB, and it's A1C. If those are fine, you can eat more saturated fat. Do you have hormone imbalance, weight loss resistance, low energy and sleep problems and you're tired of being told your labs are normal when you, when you know something isn't right? This new test flips the script and my team knows exactly what to look for. I'm currently offering a simple at home blood test that actually tests for the right things. Targeted biomarkers including hormones, thyroid and metabolism. Plus a full hour with one of my senior health advisors to review your results and discover ways that you can work with the Health Institute to find, finally find lasting healing. If you want to check it out and grab one before they're gone, just go to mybloodwork.com now. You know, the Maha movement's been really, I don't think people realize how impactful it's been. It's been incredibly impactful and people like you and Vani Hari and so many others have done such an amazing job. Will Cole and many others. And I've really, I've been really blessed to be a part of it. And, and so what are the things that you're most encouraged about? That's what's happened in the Maha movement has been able to impact. And what are the things in the future you think we're also going to be able to make changes with RFK and that partnership over the next three years?

[Courtney Swan]

Yeah. So things I'm really excited about one the food eyes. And I want to speak to the critics for a minute here because we also did get a fair amount of pushback in this. And what I keep reiterating is the food dyes should have never been there in the first place. And I understand the criticism that we're getting because many people are saying, well, okay, if you take the food dyes out of Fruit Loops, it's still going to be ultra processed foods. Yes, that is very true. And we're not saying that Fruit Loops are now going to be healthy without the food dyes. But what I keep going back to, and I think people are not understanding the direct impact that this is going to have on so much of our population. Over a million children are being fed every single day with our public school school system that are getting food dyes. And we know that food dyes are having an effect on hyperactivity in children. Talk to any person that is teaching right now and they will tell you that the kids are bouncing off the walls. And it's a combination of things. It's the sugar and it's also the food dyes that they're getting every single day. So that's going to have a remarkable difference on just, if we can just limit the amount of toxic burden that's happening on these little bodies. And I see a win regardless, like just getting the stuff out of the food and having them be exposed to less things. That's a huge win. Nursing homes, same thing. Hospitals, same thing. Military food. So it's going to affect actually a lot of our vulnerable. Not calling the military vulnerable, but everybody else. A lot of the vulnerable of our population, we're going to be hitting the food dies out. So I see that as a huge win. They should have never been there in the first place. And I'm very excited about just seeing that we're having some real things actually happen in the government. We talked about this on my podcast. But, you know, I think people forget that we got into this mess in 70 years. We're not going to clean this up overnight. And I get it because I, I'm, I'm a similar personality where now that we have Bobby in there, we're all kind of like, yes, we've, we've been waiting for this opportunity for so long. But I kind of have to taper my expectations a little bit and remind myself that, you know, the government is a little slow with this kind of stuff.

[Dr. Josh Axe]

A little.

[Courtney Swan]

They're very slow with this.

[Dr. Josh Axe]

Yes.

[Courtney Swan]

And I will say this is the fastest I've ever seen them move.

[Dr. Josh Axe]

Oh, yeah.

[Courtney Swan]

And that I'm very excited about.

[Dr. Josh Axe]

Yeah, yeah.

[Courtney Swan]

And, you know, and I would be remiss to not say this. The thing that I was really impacted by was right when Bobby Kennedy and Trump, you know, got into office. I've been doing this work for 14 years. I have been sitting, waiting for a president just to admit we have a problem. Just someone stand up on stage and say, we are sick. We need to change this. We, we never heard Obama say it. Trump never said it his first or. Yeah, he never said it his first four years. Biden never said a word. And I just kept sitting here going, americans are really sick. And this is a big deal. We're talking 74% of our youth, 18 to 24 are ineligible for military service. Like, we're starting to talk about national security threat. And everyone ignored it until finally Trump and Bobby Kennedy got on a political stage and they said, americans are sick and we're going to fix it. And I mean just that alone. To me. What do they say in the STEP program? The first step is admitting we have a problem. We admitted we have a problem publicly. So that I'm very excited about. What else? The dietary guidelines. Absolutely amazing win, in my personal opinion. I think we've already gone over that. Some things that I'm really excited about that I am hopeful will get fixed. Bobby Kennedy was talking about how the formula has not been reevaluated since.

[Dr. Josh Axe]

Oh, infant formula.

[Courtney Swan]

Yes.

[Dr. Josh Axe]

Oh, my gosh. One of the, one of the absolute worst. I mean, think about the most important time of your entire life is developing as an infant. And these infant formulas are toxic. Oh, it's horrible. They're terrible.

[Courtney Swan]

It's terrible. I mean, the first two ingredients are generally, when you get away from water, it's corn syrup solids and canola oil.

[Dr. Josh Axe]

That's right.

[Courtney Swan]

It's just crazy. And then it's a bunch of synthetic vitamins, most likely by on, you know, not bioavailable for the body. Not to mention they're putting folic acid in there. And if the baby has mthfr, they're not even going to get folate from that. So it's a mess.

[Dr. Josh Axe]

Yeah, yeah. I, I, I have frequently talked about how important breastfeeding is, and if you can do it, do Everything you can, if you can't try and get breast milk and if you can't. Weston A. Price had a really great formula.

[Courtney Swan]

Yes.

[Dr. Josh Axe]

They put together, it was like, you know, goat's milk and then all these other ingredients to make your own at home formula. And that's a, that is just such a better option than what today's infant formula is. I'm so glad you brought that up because it's just so travesty.

[Courtney Swan]

Yeah, well, and you look at too. So we were just talking about the Dietary Guidelines. So the dietary guidelines are going to have a huge ripple effect on what we do with WIC recommendations, SNAP recommendations, funding, where we put the funding, what kind of foods that we're going to really like, push forward. And you know, I look at. Because when I talk about formula a lot on my page and I'm similar as you know, I'm such a proponent for breast milk and I get in trouble every time I say this, but I just believe the breast is best. I just do. I think it was God's perfect design. It works perfectly with, in sync with you and baby. And there's this hormone exchange that happens where your breast milk creates certain properties that your baby needs.

[Dr. Josh Axe]

It was fun. I was sitting down with my, my, my. We were spending Christmas in Florida and my sister was there and Chelsea was there, my wife Chelsea. And Chelsea was nursing our two year old. And then my, my sister had said, oh, like, you know, I miss that because she hasn't breastfed for about six months now with her because her oldest is like three and a half or four or her youngest. And because they were just sharing like, you know, that oxy toe, that just connection you feel to, to, to the baby at that time.

[Courtney Swan]

Well, and I think, you know, it's, it's unfortunate because we don't teach this a lot. I didn't learn any of this in school, by the way. And I took nutrition courses. I took prenatal nutrition courses and there were certain things that they just didn't teach us at all. But there's this symbiotic relationship that happens where at night breast milk actually has melatonin in it to help baby go to sleep.

[Dr. Josh Axe]

Wow.

[Courtney Swan]

And if you're, if the baby is sick, your body can sense it and it creates more antibodies to help their immune system. Like there's certain things that happen that science just, we will never be able to replicate that. And so that I just feel like with formula and you know, I would be remiss to not say this, my heart goes out to. I'm so empathetic to women that are unable to breastfeed. And that's a real reality and it's horrible. And I know that women feel guilt over it and they really struggle with it. And I pray that when my baby's here that I'm going to be able to breastfeed and I'm going to fight like hell to be able to do it. So formula needs to be there, but we really, really need to clean it up.

[Dr. Josh Axe]

Yeah, it needs to get so much better. And by the way, we don't say this to make anyone feel guilty if you can't breastfeed. Listen, all we're called to do is do our best. So if you can't, then let's find the best formula for you. The problem is the formulas are so bad today that they've got to get better.

[Courtney Swan]

Exactly. And you know, and this is not women's fault. You know, I think they feel so guilty after they find out later. Oh, man. Like, I get all these messages from women that are just like, I'm kicking myself because I gave my baby this formula and I wish I hadn't. And you know, hindsight's always going to be 2020 and your baby's going to be fine. You know, it's just like we have to move onwards and upwards and once you know better, you do better and you just have forgive yourself. That's right, the past, you know, but so that's another thing I'm very, very excited about because we need to clean up formula. And I brought up WIC and, and snap and you know, a lot of the, the issue that I'm seeing right now is, you know, lower income families that are on WIC and they, they aren't able to breastfeed for whatever reason and they're getting this formula that's recommended by wic. And I mean, it's the worst of the worst. Yeah. And I don't think a lot of people know this, but the reason Bobby Kennedy is doing this reevaluation is because we have not evaluated baby formula since 1984. It was the last time that we evaluated the standards for it. And if you think about what we were doing back then, we were really demonizing animal foods.

[Dr. Josh Axe]

That's right.

[Courtney Swan]

And we were propping up, you know, canola oil and margarine and saying that this is heart healthy and it's really good for us and we need a higher amount of polyunsaturated fatty acids. And now what we know is that too much polyunsaturated fatty acids can actually cause inflammation. So we really need to go back and restructure.

[Dr. Josh Axe]

Yeah.

[Courtney Swan]

How we build baby formula and really put an emphasis on putting healthier fats in there.

[Dr. Josh Axe]

Yeah.

[Courtney Swan]

So very excited about that. Another thing that we had brought up, we talked about briefly, Bobby Kennedy is hopefully going to change the requirements for doctors where they're going to need to take some sort of nutrition course. Yeah, I've heard him talk about this. Just to be very clear. I don't know that there's any standard put in place or any plan as of yet, but I hope that that's something he's going to tackle and I really hope that we start pushing medicine towards a more root cause, preventative model versus the sick care, you know, model that we have right now.

[Dr. Josh Axe]

Absolutely agree. Absolutely. Because right now it's just so pharmaceutically focused. I mean, really, that's it. Doctors learn how to diagnose condition and prescribe a drug for that condition. That's all. That's that. That's what they learn.

[Courtney Swan]

Yep, exactly. So really hoping that gets changed. And then you asked me what I'm not excited about right now. So kind of in alignment with what we talked about at the very beginning with what's happening with these agrochemical companies, unfortunately we are having a bit of an issue with the EPA right now. Just, there's a lot. There's been a rollback of pfas, which is known as forever chemicals in our drinking water. So they're rolling that back right now. The regulations on that, they just, they said they approved two new forever chemicals or PFA based chemicals that we can be. That we can spray on our food. Another one we're really not excited about. And it's very confusing because the EPA is coming out and saying, well, we're, we're MAHA and we're doing this for maha and we're trying to create all these MAHA regulations and they're telling us that these new pesticides that they're approving are actually not PFAs. But what they did was they actually just went back and they redefined what a PFAW is. And so now they're saying, oh no, these don't actually go into the classification under of it. And so I myself and many other activists have been very critical of what's happening at the EPA right now because they're telling us one thing and they're doing the opposite. And then they're kind of telling the general public, oh no, but we're not doing that. But they're just redefining what it means to do that. So been very critical and not happy about what's happening with the epa. And you think about, I was thinking about this really heavily over the weekend with the dietary Guidelines. It's a amazing that we're pushing for more real food. Right. But what that is ultimately going to look like is as we start steering people away from ultra processed packaged foods and we're steering them more towards more whole unprocessed real foods, they're going to be exposed to more pesticides if they're not buying organic. And I again, I don't say this stuff to scare people. I say this because the EPA needs to regulate this more.

[Dr. Josh Axe]

Yeah. The average person applies over 100 endocrine disrupting chemicals before breakfast just from everyday personal care products. That's why I want to spotlight a business that's taking a totally different approach. Primly Pure. It's one of the first brands that treats the skin like the microbiome it is. Instead of formulas loaded with synthetics, Primly Pure goes back to what humans used to do for centuries. Real recognizable ingredients from plants and animals, including grass fed tallow. Tallow is incredibly skin compatible. Its fatty acid profile mirrors your skin's natural barrier, helping restore balance, support the microbiome and deliver deep nourishment without any endocrine disrupting chemicals. Their less is more approach has earned a massive following, especially their deodorant and tallow based creams and balms which actually work with your body, not against it. If you're ready for skincare that supports your health instead of adding to your toxic load, you need Primly Pure. Your skin and your whole system will feel the difference. Use code AXE15 to get 15% off your purchase at primlypure.com because when your skin thrives, so does your health. You know, one of the things I think you've done a great job at Real Foodology, especially in the early days, is teaching people how to read food labels. I'd like to talk about that for a minute because I think for a lot of people this is. I used to do shopping tours with patients. So I would go, we would go to, you know, Whole Foods, we'd go up and down every aisle and I'd say, hey, here's what to look for. Because even a place like Whole Foods, sometimes I'd go like, okay, animal crackers, these are not healthy. White bleach flour, canola oil, this other junk in there. And so what are some of your rules in Teaching people how to read food labels.

[Courtney Swan]

I also want to mention too, I, I always find it funny, the veggie chips where people think that they're vegetables and they're actually just like potato starch with like some spinach dusting on top. It's just, you know, they really try to trick us. Okay, so I will tell you. So I have a couple little guidelines that I utilize that have made it a lot easier for people to navigate the grocery store. The first and foremost one is that I would say whenever you're trying to decide if you're going to put something in your cart, just simply ask yourself, if my great grandmother was to time travel and join me in the grocery store right now, would she even know what the same. And I think that's a great indicator of just number one going, okay, so a Twinkie. My great grandmother is going to go, what is that? Like? I don't even. Is that food? I don't. Is this like food for the livestock? I don't know. So that would be number one. Second of all, don't ever take what the front of the label says as the end all, be all. You have to think about that as a billboard for the company. This is an ad campaign that they are trying to use to sell. Sell you the product. Because you'll see things like low fat, low sugar, gluten free, and you know, if you have to eat gluten free, that's fine. But I'm just saying, don't use that as a guiding force that, oh, this means it's going to be healthy. Right. So then you want to turn around the back and the first thing you want to do is you want to read the ingredients. Your first red flag is if it is really long, chances are you're probably going to want to put that back on the shelf.

[Dr. Josh Axe]

You know what they do in a lot of those really long labels too? Like, I. There was a. We were at a health food store in Park City here this last week, and I flipped it over and it's like any. And. And this was, you know, there. This was still even a brand that was trying to be healthier, but it was like coconut sugar and honey and maple syrup. And so they had all of these others in there. But. But they do this a lot where it's like three different types of sugar to push it lower on the label. So it's not the first ingredient. Yeah, they do that all the time.

[Courtney Swan]

Yeah, because the order of the ingredients on the label are based on how much of that ingredient is in there. And this is what's unfortunate is these food companies have gotten very sneaky and they know that consumers are starting to catch on to some of their tricks. So they're trying to come up with new ideas because a consumer. Because if I look at a package and the first ingredient is sugar, I'm going to want to put it back.

[Dr. Josh Axe]

That's right.

[Courtney Swan]

But to your point, exactly what you just said, it's like, oh, it's, you know, I don't know, brown rice first and then they have all these other sweeteners underneath. But, you know, it just, it tricks your brain to think that it doesn't have a ton of sugar in it.

[Dr. Josh Axe]

I mean, everything I buy, I read the label.

[Courtney Swan]

Yes.

[Dr. Josh Axe]

I mean, there's not a single thing I read where I don't look at the label.

[Courtney Swan]

You just, you have to. Now you can't trust that companies are doing greenwashing. I mean, they will put a picture of cows grazing in grass on the front and try to trick your brain into thinking, oh, that's right, exactly. And then you turn it around and it has natural flavors as canola oil. And it's just. So you have to just disregard the front of the package. You have to read the ingredients. And then I would say this is my number one easiest tip to follow and will never steer you wrong. When you're reading that ingredient label, you don't even, you don't even have to know what some of these things mean. If there is an ingredient in there that you could not physically go buy while you're in the grocery store. If you're looking at this and you're going, okay, this is bht, am I going to find that in aisle six? No, you're not. That is a clear indicator that you want to put it back on the shelf. You always want to make sure that every single ingredient in there is something that you would either have stocked in your kitchen or something that you know that you could readily buy in the grocery store already.

[Dr. Josh Axe]

So, so what do you think? So, like, when you think about a health. I want to talk about health food stores specifically today.

[Courtney Swan]

Yeah.

[Dr. Josh Axe]

What are the least healthy things that people typically buy today in the health food store?

[Courtney Swan]

Well, a lot of packaged stuff. So I would say packaged crackers, packaged cookies, you know what? Bread. So bread is a really big one. We have been conditioned to just think bread is a loaf of bread. Right. But if you look at the ingredients in most store bought bread, it is loaded with, whether it's preservatives or they add A ton of sugar in there. There's a bunch of different ingredients in there, usually that, that do not even deserve. They don't need to be in bread. And this is another thing too, is you gotta take a step back and think, okay, what is bread made out of? It should be, you know, maybe, maybe four or five ingredients. Right. Flour, yeast, salt, maybe some honey. I mean, that's about it.

[Dr. Josh Axe]

Yeah, yeah.

[Courtney Swan]

And then if you look and you read it at all this other stuff in there, and I mean, we can go into enriched flour if we want to, but there's. There's so many things that we're adding that are unnecessary. And that's when you start getting into the realm of ultra processed, which I think we should talk about. So there's different ratings, obviously, there's completely unprocessed whole food which would be, you know, let's say an apple, for example. And then if you're looking at something that's processed, that would be, let's say applesauce, almond butter, exactly where, you know, it's very close to the original thing. And maybe they've added a little bit of honey or something. Right. And that's okay. I think a lot of people start getting confused and they start hearing processed and they think, oh my gosh, I can't have this bread. A loaf of bread that they would have made in biblical times would be considered processed.

[Dr. Josh Axe]

Yeah.

[Courtney Swan]

Because there was a making that there was a process that had to happen in order to make it into bread. When you start getting into ultra processed foods, that's what we want to avoid. That's when you start seeing things like natural flavors, bht mono and diglycerides, which are an emulsifier. You start seeing all these additives in there that if you were just cooking this at home, you would never use these ingredients. You would never recognize.

[Dr. Josh Axe]

What's the problem with emulsifiers are also things like your gene and a lot of these thickening agents. Swaro's an issue.

[Courtney Swan]

Yeah. Well, okay, so a lot of people will maybe remember this. A couple years ago, food companies were required to take out partially hydrogenated oils because we figured out that they were trans fats and they wreak havoc on our metabolic system. So they took those out. And what companies started doing is they were replacing the partially hydrogenated oils with mono and diglycerides, which are essentially another form of trans fat. And what these emulsifiers do is they take a food like, let's say like mayonnaise, for example, if you've ever made homemade Mayonnaise, and it sits in your fridge for a couple days, it'll start to kind of separate. Right. Like, certain things that they start to separate. So these companies put these emulsifiers in there so that when it sits in your fridge for a month, it stays intact the whole time. It's like, you know, when you're trying to put water and oil together and it doesn't fully mix, you add an emulsifier in there, and it makes it mix.

[Dr. Josh Axe]

Yeah.

[Courtney Swan]

And this is a symptom of a larger issue that I think people need to understand is that a lot of these things that we're putting in our food products are more beneficial to the food companies and to these food products that are sitting on the shelf all the time. It helps them stay shelf stable for longer. There is no health benefit to you whatsoever. In fact, it's just so that these companies can make more money and they don't have to worry about their products sitting on the shelf. And we've also created this unrealistic expectation for Americans that our food needs to be absolutely perfect. God forbid I have to say, stir my mayo before I put it on my bread, or God forbid, I have to, you know, mix something a little bit because it's separated. But we've created these unrealistic expectations. And what's happened is that now we have created what normally would be a typically decent, healthy food, like mayo, if it's just, you know, the. The standard ingredients, I would say is pretty healthy. But then we start adding in things like mono diglycerides to emulsify it, and we add in canola oil, and we add in a preservative, and then that's when you start getting into the ultra process territory that you want to avoid. So.

[Dr. Josh Axe]

So what was eating like for you growing up? Like, did you. Were you kind of born into this? Were your parents pretty healthy, or is this something you had to kind of. Kind of learn along the way? Because I know, like, my health, my. My family growing up, my mom, she brought in this at the time. Juicy Juice at the time was only 10% juice. So we thought, like, we tried. So we thought, oh, we're drinking all this fruit juice. We're doing really good right now. And. And then we did some home cook, you know, Western or Midwest, you know, casseroles, that sort of thing. So. And tried to get some veggies and things, but it was mostly like, iceberg lettuce.

[Courtney Swan]

Yeah.

[Dr. Josh Axe]

So, you know, we grew up trying, but definitely was not hitting the mark at all. But how Was it for. For you and your family growing up?

[Courtney Swan]

I love sharing this actually, because. So growing up, I was very fortunate to have a mom that was. I mean, my mom was Maha 30 years ago. 40 years ago, before even a thing. Yeah. In fact, I actually remember as a kid complaining to my mom because she would take me to all these. Because I mean, you know, you think about, I'm 41, so I'm, you know, 30 years ago, she's taking me to these little health food stores that I used to tell her all the time I'd be like, mom, these like stink. And like all my friends are getting Dunkaroos and you're taking me and getting me these weird, like off brand cereals.

[Dr. Josh Axe]

I got to say, I had this coverage with Will Cole because his dad was a functional med doctor growing up. And so like, he was talking, he was saying the same thing. Like my parents were having me do like green juice shots when I was five years old. I always love hearing because that was not me, but I love that this was Jordan Rubin too. His dad was like that.

[Courtney Swan]

Yeah, it's so funny. Well, and it was, it was you like the 1%.

[Dr. Josh Axe]

Because then, I mean, now a lot of people do this. You know, then there was nobody doing this.

[Courtney Swan]

There was nobody doing this. In fact, like, I was kind of embarrassed to have like friends over and stuff. So sometimes, sorry, mom. Because I would go to friends houses and they would have a full pantry. I mean, you think about like, I grew up in the 80s and I just think of like Peak Dunkaroos, Pop Tarts, Doritos. And my friend's pantries would just be loaded with all this stuff. So I would go over there and I would like, binge on all of this. Not proud of it now, but you know, as a kid, like, you know, 13 years old, all you want is sugar. And so. So I had this interesting dichotomy where I was actually pretty unhappy with my mom growing up about this because I had a very close girlfriend, my best friend, who lived in an exact opposite lifestyle as me, so would go to her house. I would love to have sleepovers there, over there. Because I mean, we'd be eating all the junk food all weekend, you know, watching movies, eating junk food. And her parents would get us Burger King for dinner, and she'd get Burger King two or three nights a week for dinner. And I would come home and I'd be like, mom, I want Burger King. You know, they have the new toy that I want and I want the chicken nuggets and you know, whatever, right? And we would get in these huge fights over it actually. And my mom, now it's so funny because my mom is her favorite thing. Not in a rude way, but it's her favorite thing to bring up now where she's like, aren't you glad that I didn't let you eat all that Burger King? And now you know what, you know, and, and I am, I mean, I'm forever grateful. And I, I always, I like to remind parents because I know a lot of parents are really struggling with this right now because their kids are going to school and they're getting fed God knows what and they're going to birthday parties. And I just feel like parents and kids right now are just under assault with these ultra processed foods and they're really fighting these battles. And I think so many parents are concerned that they're gonna create like an eating disorder in their child or that they're depriving their child. And I will tell you that I am one of those kids that despite getting in fights with my mom and being upset about it, I had a come to Jesus moment in college where I grew up not sick at all. I mean, you talk about like, I think maybe I had antibiotics once my whole life growing up. Never had ear infections, never had issue, like just never had any issues. I go to college and I just have a free for all. I'm like, woohoo, I'm out of the house, I'm eating fast food. Because at the time I had not fully made the connection right. Like for me it was more like, oh, I'm living in this household and my mom's not letting me have these things. And I didn't fully grasp the concept of it. And by the way, my mom was making everything from scratch. I have memories of myself sitting on the kitchen counter and my mom hand cranking pasta that she made with like Italian flour. I mean, just incredible, like making her own bread. Like she really, I mean she made everything from scratch.

[Dr. Josh Axe]

Incredible.

[Courtney Swan]

In fact, when I went to college, there were fast food chains I had never even tried before. Just because, you know, when you're, when you're a kid, I, I didn't really have money to go out, so I'm not saying I never had fast food, but it was just rare because my mom would be like, no, you're coming home, we're not going to give you money to go to, you know, Taco Bell or whatever. Yeah, like you're going to eat at home. So there was a stark difference from when I went to college and I just had this total free for all. I mean, I gained so much weight within a year, I was so, I mean, I look back at photos, I was so inflamed. I had cystic acne I'd never had before. I started dealing with just little things I'd never dealt with. I couldn't focus in school, like, and I'm so grateful because I had the opposite effect that many people go through, which is, I think many people finally start waking up to, oh, this is not normal. I shouldn't be feeling sick all the time where I never got sick. And then all of a sudden in college, I'm like, oh, I do not feel well. And I know what it's like on the other side to feel better. And I started making this connection with what I was putting in my body and I started realizing, okay, I think my mom might actually be onto something here and did a full 180. And so I'm just here to remind parents that it may feel like a battle right now and you may, your kids might be fighting you and just know that you're up against a beast of a marketing campaign with these ultra processed foods that really want to get your kids addicted to these foods. And I'm just here to tell you that it may be hard right now, but your kids are going to be so grateful when they grow up and they realize that they're not dealing with the issues that a lot of other kids are.

[Dr. Josh Axe]

I can't think of like, you know, I know a few, you know, several people that kind of grew up, Jordan Rubin, one Will Cole, yourself, that grew up in those sort of households. And all of them are just eternally grateful, you know, even though it was hard when they were, you know, kids. I know because I, you know, having a, a two year old and our five year old now, you know, we, you know, we send, you know, we send, we pack her lunch every single day. You know, it's extremely healthy. And it's not to say, you know, we're, I will say schools are a little bit more conscious now, at least the one that we send her to, because like, if they're having a certain birthday party, sometimes, you know, parents are conscious of that and they actually have healthy cakes or cupcakes or something or better options. So. Yeah, but it's, it's a, you know, I applaud all parents out there who are navigating it because it's more work. It's more, it's work. It's tough Definitely work.

[Courtney Swan]

Yeah, yeah. And I'm about to enter into that myself and I'm my husband, I've started having conversations. I mean, you know, we're down the line from that, but like, how are we gonna, how are we gonna face this, you know, because I hear from parents now that, I mean, they're getting it at birthday parties, they're getting it at school, they're getting it, you know, everywhere at after school activities, at sports activities. It's hard.

[Dr. Josh Axe]

If you want practical, science backed guidance for living a healthier, longer, more vibrant life, you need to check out the biohackit podcast. It is hosted by my good friend Aman Hassan, and it brings a thoughtful, compassionate perspective to wellness that so many women have been looking for. Every week, Aman breaks down the latest research in longevity hormones and metabolic health in a way that's clear and easy to understand. Leads to important conversations around women's health, fertility and the steps women can take to protect their energy, balance their hormones and support long term well being. She talks with top doctors, scientists and health experts about natural healing, nutrition, lifestyle choices that make a real difference. Ann sits down with entrepreneurs and thought leaders to explore how they stay strong, grounded and resilient in their personal lives and their work. If you want a show that speaks directly to health challenges women are navigating today while offering hope, clarity and real solutions, tune in to biohack it every Thursday. Wherever you listen to podcasts, it is one of the most educational and uplifting shows in the wellness space and I think you're going to love it. So another thing I wanted to ask you about because I see this a lot more now. I was having this conversation with my parents and you know, I'm 44 and I have a 2 year old and a 5 year old, so I had kids, you know, a little bit later in life and I know this has happened, I mean, on, on. I don't know that this is statistically accurate, but I would say, I don't know. A lot of people are having kids much later on in life now. And so I have so many women I'm friends with that I know that are, you know, trying to, or are having kids in their, in their 40s.

[Courtney Swan]

Yeah.

[Dr. Josh Axe]

How's that been for you being 41 and about to have your, you know, or on your way here to have your first, your first, first baby?

[Courtney Swan]

Yeah, well, I first want to say, you know, so there was a couple things I felt like that happened to me in my 20s and 30s that I, I have, I have no Let me be very, very clear. I have no regrets about what I've done in my life. I'm very passionate about speaking out about this. Where I feel like women in my generation, we were really pushed into our careers and really given this narrative of, like, your worth is based on your work and, you know, climb up the ladder. And it could have been different for. For different upbringings and, you know, maybe brought it more in the church, which I was. But I just, I really. There's a whole other story there. But basically I really threw myself into my work and I'm so grateful. I mean, I look around at everything I've been able to create, and, I mean, I'm so grateful for it. But there is a part of me that I would say around 34, 35, where I started kind of going, oh, man, why didn't I really try to focus harder on finding my partner? Because I was so focused on my career that I think some of the other stuff kind of went to the wayside. Right. And so I unfortunately. And two, I just. Unfortunately, I just. I was unable to find my partner until a little bit later in life. And so, because a lot of people ask me, well, why did you wait so long to have kids? And I. It was not my, My purpose.

[Dr. Josh Axe]

Well, the other thing is you gotta find your right partner. Right? I mean, you gotta find your spouse. Like, and Chelsea and I, like, we have. We have about a six and a half year age gap, so she's 37, about to turn 38. But that's the other thing. Right? You have to find that because when did you get married?

[Courtney Swan]

We got married. We got married last year in June.

[Dr. Josh Axe]

Okay. Yeah.

[Courtney Swan]

Yeah. But it was one of those things where we just, like, knew, you know, And I really. The last couple years, I really. I mean, I just. I did so many things differently. I mean, and I prayed so hard. I put myself through therapy to really deal with a lot of, like, things that I felt like maybe were. Were hindering me. And I just was really surrendering to finding my partner. And. And this is kind of what I mean. And I think everything happens for a reason. But I was so. I was so hyper focused on my career that I gave no space for my person to even come in. And I think that was part of what I needed to shift so some of how I was working and showing up in the world to really allow my partner to come in. And I'm so grateful and I would never take any of this back. I mean, I found the most amazing man and I'M so happy. And I'll tell you that part of my upbringing and finding health and wellness when I did, and my mom really setting the foundation for that. I say this all the time. I am so incredibly grateful that my mom gave me that gift and that I never went on birth control. I did a lot of things for my health where I look around and I see so many women are struggling to get pregnant right now. And I want to be very clear because I know this is really sensitive subject. I am by no means saying that it is anyone's fault that you're doing something wrong. I'm just saying that I. What I've noticed now being older and being pregnant is that the medical system treats you. They just put a blanket statement on statement on you, and they just treat you like you're geriatric. There is no, there's no room for, okay, well, what does your health look like? What is your metabolic health? Are you overweight? What does your blood work look like? It's just automatically. They're just like, oh, you're geriatric just based on your age. And I've really been pushing back on this.

[Dr. Josh Axe]

Do you know the number ages of being geriatric for?

[Courtney Swan]

35.

[Dr. Josh Axe]

Yeah.

[Courtney Swan]

That is insane.

[Dr. Josh Axe]

I've had some Doctors say it's 30, which is even crazier.

[Courtney Swan]

Oh, my God.

[Dr. Josh Axe]

So.

[Courtney Swan]

And then there was a famous singer. Was it Kelsey Ballerina? I think it was. That just had a post. I guess she wrote a song and then I saw an Instagram post about it. I believe she's 32. She's 32 or she's 34. And she just wrote a song about how she, she missed her opportunity to have kids. And I'm over here going, I just got pregnant and 41 and I'm having a baby. I just, I'm really pushing back against this narrative right now. There's this, there's this narrative in the medical System that at 35, you're geriatric, you're going to have a horrible pregnancy. You're going to have a really hard time getting pregnant. Also, the narrative is, oh, good luck getting pregnant after 35. And I'm here to tell you that if you do the right things, you really take care of your health. Again, you can't control everything. And who knows, there could be other things happening that you just have no control over. But I really believe that if we tell women how incredibly important it is to take care of your health and make sure that your metabolic health is in order, really take care of Your inflammation and your A1C and get off birth control as soon as you possibly can, regulate your hormones. There are so many things that you can control and that you can do.

[Dr. Josh Axe]

Yeah, yeah, I totally agree. You know, my perspective in working with a lot of women in fertility is we just really need to nourish your body. Like I tell them, we got to do everything we can to allow your body to feel safe, secure, warm, just really well nourished. And keeping those stress levels low is so key as well, because I think some women are so busy every moment of the day, they're doing something. So if you can create some margin and really just to your point, nourish your health, your odds go up incredibly.

[Courtney Swan]

And I'll tell you too, I want to say this something that I noticed. If you are going into pregnancy a little bit later in life, once I shared on my social media that I was pregnant, it's really interesting. I've been noticing so many women have fear around it because the medical system is hammered into them that after 35, you're geriatric and you need to be concerned about this, that and that and that. And I actually avoided the allopathic, conventional medical system entirely. I don't want to deal with it at all. I have a midwife and we're doing it very. We're doing that route, the midwife route. I don't even have an ob gyn and I'm probably gonna be blessed. Are going to freak out on.

[Dr. Josh Axe]

We didn't. We just had a midwife. She also. And I, we've done two at home pool births and.

[Courtney Swan]

Yes.

[Dr. Josh Axe]

Yeah.

[Courtney Swan]

And I just want to tell women that for me, this has been the most amazing experience that I've had. And I am blown away by the messages I've been getting. And this is not a judgment, this is purely an observation, is that I think the medical system really preys on women's insecurities and fears. And when you're pregnant, you're increasing incredibly vulnerable because you are so concerned about this life that you're growing and you want to do the best that you can and you want to have a healthy pregnancy, you want to have a healthy baby. And I can tell you that avoiding that medical system and just going the midwife way. My age has not come up once. There has not been a single concern that. There has not been a single. Well, because of your age, we're concerned about this, that, and that every conversation we've had has just simply been, okay, next step. You know, we're going to monitor you. We're going to do blood work. If we see anything we're concerned about, we're going to deal with it then. But there's no like ramping up to, well, you know, just because of your age you could be concerned about this. And I live in such peace and I don't have fear around all of this because I'm not having the medical system tell me that something's wrong with my body just because of my age.

[Dr. Josh Axe]

It's so powerful. It's so powerful. One is very much aligned with God's design and one is very much aligned with them thinking they are God. I mean, one of the issues I've had with the entire mainstream medical industry is they have a God complex.

[Courtney Swan]

Yeah.

[Dr. Josh Axe]

I mean we've seen this with so many doctors, with so many people in the industry, they literally have a God complex. They feel like everybody should worship and bow versus what you're sharing is a lot more aligned with, hey, let's let God's amazing design do its work, let's support it, let's live with hope, let's live with peace as the Bible talks about versus living in a state of fear and anxiety. I mean this is something I saw through the whole Covid thing. It's like we're going to strike fear into the heart of everybody a lot of times. I remember when my mom was diagnosed with cancer it was you have a 40% chance to live, chance to live or my brother in law a 1% chance to live. So all that being said, I see this all the time with people is these sort of, the medical industry is this sort of fear based tactics versus hope and love and encouragement which so I'm so encouraged to hear. That's been your experience with the midwife.

[Courtney Swan]

It's been amazing. And I just want to be very clear because I don't want people to take things out of context. It's not, I'm not saying that we're not monitoring me and doing anything. I mean we still do everything that you do. I mean we were just talking about I'm going in for an anatomy scan next week. Like I'm getting scans, I'm getting blood work. And she's told me many times if something comes up and you happen to be high risk, we'll deal with it then. So it's not like we're just going la la la, like we live in, you know, rainbow land. We're taking it seriously. But there's no fear being instilled in me just because based on my Age. And I just, I. The messages I was getting from women, I just, it made me so sad because the medical system is really instilling a lot of fear that I think in many cases is unnecessary.

[Dr. Josh Axe]

Yeah.

[Courtney Swan]

And I think women too forget, because the medical system really hammers us into us. We forget that this was how, this is what our bodies were designed to do.

[Dr. Josh Axe]

That's right. That's right. That's powerful. Yeah. I think living with that in mind and knowing God is for you, not against you. You were designed to be healthy. You just need to align your lifestyle and your diet with the Bible and what we know to be healthy.

[Courtney Swan]

Yes.

[Dr. Josh Axe]

All right, I want to do some rapid fire questions here. Here's the first one. What are the three ingredients people need to most look out for when they're reading food labels?

[Courtney Swan]

I would say first and foremost, look and see what type of oil they're using. If they're using something like canola oil, cottonseed oil, soybean oil, chances are that's going to be an ultra processed food. Just by nature of having that oil in there already. You want to look for things like olive oil, avocado oil, butter, even coconut oil would be great too. Number two, this is kind of a blanket statement, but I would say really just be cognizant of how much sugar is in there.

[Dr. Josh Axe]

Yeah.

[Courtney Swan]

And be cognizant of what type of sugar it is. You really want to avoid the ultra processed forms of sugar like corn syrup, corn syrup, solids. Look for things like, I mean, this might be a little bit controversial, but just if it's just cane sugar, that's way better than having corn syrup. Maple syrup would be maple syrup and honey would really be your top options. But just see how much sugar is in there. And then number three, I would say mono and diglycerides. These are an emulsifier that you see in a lot of ultra processed food like products. And they, they essentially are trans fat.

[Dr. Josh Axe]

What are your top pieces of advice for women trying to get pregnant in their 40s?

[Courtney Swan]

First and foremost, I would say this is what I did personally. Cancel out all of the noise. You are going to hear so much from experts in the medical field. They're going to tell you that your chances of getting pregnant are really low. They're going to tell you all these scary stats. They're going to tell you, you know, what it looks like for a woman in their 40s and, you know, the average population. Anytime I came across information like that, I would turn it off and I would tell myself that is not my story and I would repeat that over and over again because I did not want to let that noise get in the way of what my personal journey was and I really didn't want to let fear in. Also remember and trust your body that your body was designed to do this and your body was meant to do this. So just remember that and trust yourself. And then I would say too really just focus, focus on eating whole real foods as much as possible, really nourishing your body. Because a really nourished body that doesn't have nutritional deficiencies and it's really getting the nutrition and exactly what it needs is going to be more fertile. Whether or not what the medical system will tell you that nutrition and diet has nothing to do with it. It has almost everything to do with it.

[Dr. Josh Axe]

What are the top five foods you'd recommend for women looking to balance their hormones?

[Courtney Swan]

Yeah, so if I think balancing hormones, I'm definitely thinking really good healthy food fats that are going to support healthy hormones. So extra virgin olive oil would be a great option. Butter is actually I think a health promoting food. If you do okay with dairy, I would actually say dairy I think is a fertility promoting food. If it's organic, grass fed, A two from really good sources. And I'm not just saying have a free for all with dairy, but I really think that it can have some hormone and fertility support supporting properties. Salmon, I think salmon would be a great one because it's really high in omega 3s and omega 6s and it's a good fat that's also really satiating and full of protein. And I would say avoid refined carbohydrates and go for more things like oats. Sourdough would be a great option. A little bit of rice, avoid really starchy carbohydrates and go for things like sweet potatoes would be another great option because one of the things I think that really is going to make a difference is your blood sugar, your A1C and really making sure that you're not spiking your glucose throughout the day and sending it on a roller coaster. You want to make sure that you're avoiding those refined carbohydrates. And then lastly I would say, you know what, I would say meat, I think red meat would be great for hormone balance and for fertility.

[Dr. Josh Axe]

That's so helpful. Well, Courtney, thanks so much for coming on today. It's been a pleasure. I just, you know, I again I've been so inspired by all the things you've done in, you know, trying to Trying to get glyphosate banned and getting the food dyes ban and all the things you've done and just so grateful for you and all your hard work and the things you've done.

[Courtney Swan]

Thank you so much. Thank you for having me.

[Dr. Josh Axe]

Yeah, let people know where they can find find more out about you and all the great things you're up to.

[Courtney Swan]

Yeah, so I'm mostly active on Instagram, which is at Real Foodology. I also have a podcast, which you were just recently a guest on, so definitely go and check that out. It's on all major podcast platforms. It's called Real Foodology. And actually you can find me Real Foodology pretty much across the board on X TikTok website. Real foodology.com and. Yeah, that's it.

[Dr. Josh Axe]

Thanks so much for coming on today.

[Courtney Swan]

Thank you so much. This is so fun.

[Dr. Josh Axe]

All right. Hey, I want to say thanks to everybody for tuning into this podcast. Remember, each and every week we're diving deep into the science and principles of how you can heal physically, mentally, spiritually and take your health and your life to the next level. Thanks again here to Courtney Swan for sharing all of our wisdom with us today. And if you're watching on YouTube, let me know what is the biggest piece of advice or the thing that Courtney shared that you walked away with. Maybe something surprising when she talked about glyphosate in the Supreme Court or infant formulas or getting pregnant in her 40s. We'd love to hear from you again. Thanks so much for watching and taking part. By the way, the number one thing you can do here to support the show is to subscribe. This allows me to bring on really high profile guests like Courtney and others. And sometimes the show can get shadow banned because we talk about things that are very controversial like cancer. And even things like glyphosate actually sometimes can get shadow banned. So do me a favor and subscribe so it's it always shows up in your feed. Thanks so much for watching. Thanks for sharing. I'll see you on the next episode.

[Courtney Swan]

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