Podcast Summary: The Dr. Josh Axe Show Episode: What’s Living Inside You Could Be Why You’re Sick | Dr. Bill Rawls (August 28, 2025)

Overview

In this insightful episode, Dr. Josh Axe is joined by Dr. Bill Rawls—medical doctor, herbalist, and author of The Cellular Wellness Solution—to discuss the epidemic of chronic hidden infections, such as Lyme disease, viruses (Epstein-Barr, CMV), parasites, and mold. Together, they examine why so many people experience unexplained chronic symptoms and break down Dr. Rawls’ unique, cell-focused philosophy for true, lasting healing. They cover root-cause medicine, the role of stealth microbes, optimizing cell health, and the power of herbs, with actionable strategies for listeners suffering from fatigue, brain fog, autoimmunity, and more.

Key Discussion Points and Insights

1. The Real Cause of Chronic Illness

• Dr. Rawls recounts his personal health battle, highlighting that his decline was not triggered by a single tick bite, but by decades of sleep deprivation and chronic stress. Conventional medicine was unable to find or fix the underlying cause.
• Chronic symptoms typically progress gradually, not all at once.
  • "It's a slow progression. Over a course of a year, somebody realizes, ‘Wow, I feel like I'm aging too quickly. My body's falling apart.’" — Dr. Axe [00:41, 27:42]
• Most with "chronic Lyme" didn’t recall a tick bite or sudden illness onset. [00:27, 27:07]
  • "About 90 to 95% of people who identified with chronic Lyme disease did not remember becoming ill around the time of a tick bite." — Dr. Rawls [00:27, 27:08]
• Conventional diagnosis and symptom treatment fall short; the focus must shift to root causes and cellular health.

2. Why Focusing on Cells is the Solution

• Every chronic illness is rooted in cellular dysfunction and stress.
  • Dr. Rawls conceptualizes the body as an ecosystem of cells that require the right nutrients, clean environments, downtime (rest), and protection from microbes.
  • Key stressors that damage cellular function: Poor diet, toxins, chronic stress, lack of movement, and microbial load.
• Autophagy (cellular recycling) is central, both to clean up cellular debris and defend against microbes. Healthy cells can digest invading pathogens via autophagy. [18:30]
  • "That process of autophagy...is also a defense mechanism. If our cells are healthy, they can actually digest the microbes." — Dr. Rawls [18:30]
• Chronic infection is not a battle to "eradicate" a single invader but about restoring the body's ability to contain and coexist with its inner microbiome.

3. The Role of Dormant and Stealth Microbes

• Ticks and other vectors transmit more than Borrelia (Lyme); Bartonella, Babesia, mycoplasma, chlamydia, and more can persist stealthily in the body.
  • Many microbes go intracellular and dormant, residing inside tissues (nerves, heart, brain) for decades without causing acute illness.
• Virulence depends as much on the host as the pathogen. Most chronic microbes are “stealth” with low virulence, taking advantage only when the host is weakened (through stressors or cellular dysfunction). [27:11]
• Diagnosis labels like MS, fibromyalgia, or chronic fatigue often reflect this multifaceted microbial (and environmental) burden rather than the true cause.
  • "I don't even think in terms of diagnosis anymore. The purpose of a diagnosis in conventional medicine is defining medical therapy. The therapies don't get to the root causes." — Dr. Rawls [36:28]

4. The Five Steps to Healing Chronic Infection at the Cellular Level

1. Reduce Stress & Calibrate the Nervous System
   • Chronic illness creates sympathetic overactivity ("fight or flight") blocking healing. Calming practices (brain retraining, yoga, meditation, calming herbs like ashwagandha) are foundational. [42:02–44:59]
     • “We spend a couple of months calming that down through brain retraining exercises, yoga, qigong, some herbs, calming herbs. Ashwagandha.” — Dr. Rawls [43:58]
   • Most doctors skip this critical first step!
2. Clean Up the Detox System
   • Optimize sleep, reduce toxin burden (diet, air, water), and support liver/kidney function.
   • Use mild movement, sauna, and supportive herbs (milk thistle, dandelion, andrographis) to protect and restore detox pathways.
     • “The solution to pollution is dilution, and exercise is a great way to do that. But when you've got somebody who's super inflamed...that's where something like sauna can be really important.” — Dr. Rawls [47:31]
3. Restore Gut Health
   • Chronic stress and inflammation slow gut motility and disrupt the microbiome (leaky gut, food sensitivities, SIBO). Rebalance the nervous system first, then use gentle herbs and dietary changes.
4. Dietary Interventions (“Back to Basics”)
   • Emphasize whole, unprocessed foods; lots of vegetables; lean protein and healthy fats; minimize refined carbohydrates and grains.
     • “Eat whole foods as much as you can...I try to eat more vegetables than anything else. Vegetable fiber, not grain fiber, is really, really important.” — Dr. Rawls [58:22]
   • Customization is key—no universal “best” diet.
   • Keep carbohydrate intake moderate—not ketogenic for most; use time-restricted eating but avoid aggressive fasting in very sick patients.
     • "I try to keep my carbohydrate count below 150 grams, which isn’t quite ketogenic... And the last thing...is just trying to narrow my eating window."[60:05, 61:15]
5. Target the Microbes Intelligently (with Herbs)
   • Use broad-spectrum herbal antimicrobials which support cellular health, regulate the immune system, and do not disrupt the healthy microbiome—unlike antibiotics. [67:57]
     • Herbs: Japanese knotweed (trans-resveratrol), cat’s claw, Chinese skullcap, andrographis, medicinal mushrooms (reishi, cordyceps).
       • "If you were on a desert island, what herb would you take with you? My answer is always Chinese skullcap." — Dr. Rawls [77:38]
     • Herbs provide multi-faceted, “intelligent” antimicrobial action and do not create resistance.
       • "Herbs...don’t disrupt normal flora. They are selective for pathogens but don’t disrupt normal flora. So...my gut started getting better." — Dr. Rawls [74:02]
   • Antibiotics still have a role in acute infections but are less effective against slow-growing, dormant microbes and can create resistance.

5. Broad Connections: Microbes, Cancer, and Senescence

• Chronic co-infections (not just one microbe) are now recognized as a major risk factor for cancer and persistent, unexplained illness. [80:09]
  • "One of the single greatest causes of cancer today is having a co-infection. Specifically, if you have a parasitic infection, your risk of cancer goes up dramatically." — Dr. Axe [80:09]
• Ongoing cellular stress (including hidden microbes) drives accumulation of senescent cells within tissues, further impeding healing and regeneration. [84:33]
  • Research suggests these cells may harbor intracellular microbes, maintaining inflammation as a “food source.” [86:21]

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• "We haven't made any new antibiotics since I graduated from Medical School in 1985." — Dr. Rawls [01:03, 75:03]

• "It's not a goal of eradicating [microbes]...they become part of us, kind of an ill fitting part of us." — Dr. Rawls [05:17]

• "Every chronic illness is rooted in cellular dysfunction and stress." — Dr. Rawls [13:01, paraphrased]

• “Herbs...are not just suppressing microbes. They’re restoring cellular health and protecting cells, which is what matters most.” — Dr. Rawls [69:29]

• "Most doctors discover how to do things differently because of their own illness or the illness of a family member." — Dr. Axe [12:15]

Important Timestamps

• Diagnosis and personal journeys: Dr. Rawls on gradual illness, misdiagnosis, and discovery [07:08–10:43]
• Cell-centric framework explained: How root-cause illness is cellular [13:01–21:31]
• Why symptom treatment fails: The limits of conventional medicine [12:15–13:01]
• Role of autophagy and cell organelles: Cellular mechanics matter [21:31]
• Dr. Rawls’ five-step healing protocol: [42:02–67:57]
  • Stress modulation with calming herbs [43:58–44:59]
  • Detox/liver support with specific herbs and movement [47:31–50:25]
  • Restoring gut motility and microbiome [52:33–54:25]
  • Dietary pivots and lessons learned [55:35–61:27]
  • Customizing the approach (“One size doesn’t fit all”) [61:27–64:36]
• Herbs for chronic infection: Broad-spectrum, intelligent defense vs. antibiotics [67:57–77:32]
  • Notable herbal favorites: Japanese knotweed, cat’s claw, Chinese skullcap [77:38]
• Microbes and cancer risk: Co-infections as hidden drivers [80:09–84:33]
• Senescence, aging, and lingering microbes: New research and hypotheses [84:33–86:33]

Tone and Takeaways

• The conversation is open, empathetic, and deeply pragmatic. Both Dr. Axe and Dr. Rawls blend evidence-based science with patient experience and the wisdom of natural medicine.
• The call is to empower patients, question traditional paradigms, and favor individualized, integrative approaches that restore not just symptom relief, but true cellular and systemic wellness.

Learning Links

• Dr. Bill Rawls: rawlsmd.com
• Book: The Cellular Wellness Solution (endorsed by Dr. Axe)

Summary for Listeners
If you (or a loved one) struggle with chronic “mystery” symptoms, autoimmunity, recurring infections, or fatigue, this episode is an essential masterclass in understanding the real roots of illness. Dr. Rawls unpacks how restoring healthy, defended, detoxified cells—supported by herbs and mindful lifestyle changes—may achieve what mainstream medicine cannot. Share widely for anyone feeling stuck, misdiagnosed, or ready for a different way forward.