#195: Nutrition for energy, mental health, and more with Miranda Galati, MHSc, RD

Summary

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The Dr. Shannon Show

Episode #195: Nutrition for Energy, Mental Health, and More with Miranda Galati, MHSc, RD
Date: December 5, 2024
Host: Dr. Shannon Ritchey, PT, DPT
Guest: Miranda Galati, MHSc, RD

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Overview

This episode centers on practical, evidence-based approaches to using nutrition for better energy, mental health, and consistency in eating habits. Dr. Shannon welcomes registered dietitian Miranda Galati to discuss dietary patterns, the gut-brain connection, balancing macronutrients, blood sugar, and how to bypass the typical confusion and yo-yo cycles that plague so many. Both guests highlight realistic and sustainable nutrition strategies, busting myths and sharing personal experiences plus actionable tips.

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Key Discussion Points and Insights

The Gut-Brain Connection & Nutrition for Mental Health

• Emerging Research: The link between gut health and mental wellbeing is still being explored; existing research doesn’t allow for concrete statements about causation but suggests there is a connection.
  • "The research in regards to food and mental health and anxiety and especially that gut brain connection... is definitely still emerging." – Miranda (01:29)
• Dietary Patterns Matter: Focus is less on specific foods and more on overall dietary patterns, with the Mediterranean diet being the most-researched for mood and anxiety benefits.
  • "What do we know from the existing research? ...a whole foods based dietary pattern, focusing on healthy fats, food fibers, color..." – Miranda (03:14)

Processed Foods, Blood Sugar, and Mood

• Processed Foods & Inflammation: Highly processed foods might increase inflammation and cause blood sugar spikes, leading to energy crashes and mood swings.
  • "Processed foods... can maybe in the longer term drive inflammation in your body and in your brain and that can impact your mood and that can impact your energy." – Miranda (04:56)
• Stabilizing Blood Sugar: Combining carbs with protein, healthy fats, and fiber leads to gradual blood sugar increases and more stable energy.
  • "When we eat carbohydrate based foods, they're all going to break down into sugars...When you’re not having the right balance...you can get these spikes that have falls that are just as sharp." – Miranda (06:14)

The Spectrum of Processed Foods

• Not All Processed Foods Are Equal: Nutrient density and purpose matter more than the “processed” label. Protein powder or Greek yogurt can have a place if they help meet your nutrient goals.
  • "Processed foods exist on a spectrum...I like to focus less on labeling...and more on, is this a nutrient dense food? Is there a specific reason that I'm eating it?" – Miranda (08:15)

Carbohydrates, Low Carb, and Keto

• Carbohydrates’ Role for Energy: Most people feel better with some carbs, as they are the brain’s preferred fuel; balance is key.
  • "Carbohydrates break down into sugars, mostly glucose... that is going to be the easiest form of fuel for our brain and for our cells." – Miranda (12:52)
• Low Carb/Keto Diets: Short-term, strict diets like keto can work for some, but aren’t usually sustainable or necessary for most.
  • "I tend to really look through a lens of is this going to be sustainable for you?...If you know for certain you can't sustain that for the rest of your life, then the results probably won't be sustainable too." – Miranda (14:27)

Macro and Micronutrient Balance

• Macronutrient Ratios for Energy: For energy and mood, ensure each meal contains protein, carbs, and fat; protein often gets overlooked.
  • "Just having a little bit of everything there... shift the focus a little more on protein, sprinkle in healthy fats, make sure you’ve got fruits and vegetables..." – Miranda (20:04, 21:24)
• Micronutrients and Deficiencies: Deficiencies in nutrients like B12, vitamin D, iron, and zinc can directly impact energy and mood.
  • "Common ones would maybe be, like B12, vitamin D, iron, even zinc... if we’re not getting enough, can play into our energy." – Miranda (21:57)

Dairy, Inflammation, and Individual Differences

• Dairy's Reputation: Most research does not support inflammatory effects from dairy, except for lactose-intolerant or allergic individuals; personal response matters most.
  • "Most of the research points towards dairy being health promoting, if not anti inflammatory." – Miranda (25:34)
• Fat Content in Dairy: Choosing low-fat vs. full-fat comes down to personal preference, goals, and overall nutrient balance.
  • "It, again, just probably depends on the person. If you're working on protein you might find it easier to choose lower fat dairy..." – Miranda (27:14)

Overcoming Yo-Yo Dieting and Inconsistency

• Why Yo-Yo Happens: Unrealistic and unsustainable plans lead to cycles of restriction and overeating/bingeing, especially common among women.
  • "If you're yo yoing, I think it's a sign that we just need to tweak the plan. And that's okay." – Miranda (30:59)
• What Works for Consistency:
  • Eat enough calories and at regular intervals.
  • Don’t stress over perfection; focus on the foundation.
  • Make incremental changes (i.e., increasing protein by 5-10g/meal as a start).
  • Listen to your true hunger and fuel needs (especially around training).
  • Choose sustainability over rigidity.
  • "My philosophy...is like, don't make it harder than it needs to be." – Miranda (31:58)

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Quotes & Notable Moments

• On Demonizing Foods:
  • "Is this a nutrient dense food? Is there a specific reason that I'm eating it?...That’s more helpful in guiding our food choices." – Miranda (08:15)
• On Finding Maintenance:
  • "If we're eating at maintenance and it's all carbohydrates and we're getting like 50 grams of protein a day. We're probably going to feel starving. But if...enough protein...that should feel like you have pretty stable energy." – Miranda (33:50)
• On Research and Simplicity:
  • "The more you learn about nutrition, the more you realize there's so many unanswered questions and to stress about it would be so unproductive." – Miranda (28:45)
• On Dietary Patterns for Mental Health:
  • "It's a lot of whole foods based dietary patterns. It's focusing on healthy fats, it's focusing on food fibers, on color..." – Miranda (03:14)

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Timestamps for Important Segments

• Gut-Brain Connection & Diet: 01:29-04:39
• Processed Foods & Blood Sugar: 04:56-09:44
• Role, Spectrum, and Function of Processed Foods: 08:15-10:34
• Carbs, Low-Carb Diets, and Energy: 12:26-14:15
• Thoughts on Keto: 14:22-15:52
• Blood Sugar, Energy, and Eating Enough: 16:36-19:43
• Macronutrient Balance for Energy: 20:04-21:24
• Micronutrient Importance: 21:49-23:37
• Dairy, Inflammation, & Fat Content in Dairy: 24:03-27:14
• Overcoming Yo-Yo Dieting & Consistency: 28:45-33:21
• What Maintenance Feels Like: 33:24-35:10
• Hunger and Protein During Strength Training: 35:37-37:45

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Takeaway Strategies

• Build Your Diet on Whole Foods and Color: Fruits, vegetables, whole grains, healthy fats.
• Prioritize Sufficient Protein: Aim for 0.7–1g/pound of body weight, or add incrementally.
• Balance Meals: Include all macronutrients (carb, protein, fat) and adjust proportions as needed.
• Stabilize Blood Sugar: Pair refined carbs with protein/fat/fiber for slow energy release.
• Don’t Overthink Micronutrients: Eat variety; supplement if vegan/vegetarian with professional help.
• Avoid Extremes: Sustainability and consistency are more valuable than drastic restriction.
• Listen to Your Body: Adjust intake to energy needs, especially around activity.
• Don’t Fear Dairy (Unless Intolerant): It’s a useful, nutrient-dense protein source.

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Further Resources

• Miranda Galati:
  • Instagram: @real.life.nutritionist
  • Website & recipes: reallifenutritionist.com
• Upcoming Episodes:
  • Intuitive Eating vs. Dieting
  • Miranda’s personal journey with nutrition

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This summary captures the practical, positive, and research-informed essence of the episode, conveying what listeners can implement for real-life energy, mood, and health improvements.

Transcript

[A]

If you are loving what you're learning in the podcast and you want to start applying it to your fitness routine, you can try one of our free classes. No credit card required. Just drop your email to get access. This is a upper body build class taught by myself. To take the class, visit portal.evlofitness.com I'm Dr. Shannon Richie. I'm a doctor of physical therapy, fitness trainer, and founder of EFL Fitness. In the Dr. Shannon show, you'll learn applicable tools to improve your health based on science. Welcome to the show, Miranda. So excited to have you here in Austin. We were just talking about how coming from Canada to Austin is a big change.

[B]

So happy to have you here. Thank you so much for having me. Yay.

[A]

Well, we've had you on the podcast before, so listeners will have to go back and listen to our first episode. But today I really want to focus on how to eat to feel better. So fueling to feel better. I love this concept and food can be used to change body composition and all of that, but today I want to focus on energy and. And mental health and micronutrients and how to stay more consistent, things like that. So food and anxiety. I hear a lot about this, like, gut brain connection thing. So can you explain from the evidence what this means and why it impacts our. Why food in the gut impacts our mental health?

[B]

Yeah. So I will kind of start by saying the research in regards to food and mental health and anxiety and especially that gut brain connection, I think is definitely still emerging. So in terms of, like, the exact mechanisms that are happening, and I think we have a lot of work to do to fully understand that. But what I think we do know is that food definitely has the power to impact our mood, to impact our energy levels, and to impact anxiety. It's just kind of one of those things where it's, you know, like a lot of things in nutrition where it's a lot about your dietary pattern as a whole versus very specific foods and exactly what you need to be, including to feel better.

[A]

Right, right. Because I've. I've heard so much like if you have anxiety, it could be the. The root could be your gut health, which are you kind of saying that that's hard. That's difficult to study and pinpoint with literature.

[B]

Yeah, I think the gut piece of it, I think is really interesting. And that, to me personally, is an area where I feel like we just don't have the research to exactly say what that relationship is. We know there is a relationship, but to me, in terms of how food impacts gut and how that actually translates to, translates to mood changes and to different mental health. I think there's more research to be done there. But I think what's interesting to think about is like, how can we apply this in our everyday life? And I think what we know is that certain foods and certain dietary patterns, regardless of whether it's through that gut brain axis or through other mechanisms, we know that it can help us feel better.

[A]

Yes. So what have you seen as far as like mental health or improving anxiety? What dietary patterns have you seen that can help that?

[B]

Again, like, it's one of those areas where I think we need more research because a lot of the existing research is on that Mediterranean dietary pattern, which is awesome because it helps us understand that again, food can have an impact on mental health. But I think we need more research to understand slightly different dietary patterns and how they can impact our, our thinking and our, our mood and all that. But what do we know from the existing research? Well, we know that it's funny, before I even say this, it's funny because I feel like when you look in the research on a lot of this stuff, it's a lot of stuff that we already know. It's like a lot of whole foods based dietary patterns. It's focusing on healthy fats, it's focusing on food fibers, on color, like in terms of how it translates to like what does the diet look like? It's a lot of the same stuff that we already know, but that's kind of what we know. It's overall dietary pattern. We want it to be whole foods based and we want a little bit more emphasis on those healthy fats, on fibers, on protein. So really nothing super new.

[A]

Yeah, right, exactly. Isn't it so funny? It's like the answers just always come back to like the non sexy stuff.

[B]

Always. And it's interesting because you can dig into the research and you can try to better understand like, okay, why are these certain foods more impactful for mental health? Why are these whole foods more important, you know, versus like a more processed diet? But ultimately the dietary recommendations are going to be pretty similar for the average healthy person just looking to feel better.

[A]

Right, Right. Yeah. It turns out that if you are fueling with whole foods for other reasons, maybe it's like body composition goals or whatever, you're probably going to feel better mentally along the way as well.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

So you think there's probably some legitimacy to reducing processed foods for mental health?

[B]

Yeah, I think so. The processed foods, like what I have seen in terms of like, the explanation there is the processed foods can, can maybe in the longer term drive inflammation in your body and in your brain and that can impact your mood and that can impact your energy. Right. But more than that, I think it's also like, I like, I also place a big emphasis on eating for better blood sugar. And even if you don't feel like you have blood sugar issues, even if you're a healthy person, I think that's a be a big piece of it too. So eating for better blood sugar is kind of another lens at which you can look through this stuff. So when you're thinking of a highly processed diet, you're going to be having a lot of foods. It's not like to me, it's not so much about the fact that these foods are processed. It's more what nutrition are these foods offering. A lot of highly processed foods are going to be higher in more refined carbohydrates, they're going to be lower in protein, they're maybe going to be high in fat and high in calories, but they're going to be, you know, lower in healthy fats. And those again can kind of drive that longer term inflammation, but also not necessarily the best foods for our blood sugar. So what does this concept of blood sugar really even mean? So when we eat carbohydrate based foods, they're all going to break down into sugars in our body and when we have more refined carbohydrates, they're going to break down into sugars, they're going to cause a blood sugar spike. And that means we're going to get that energy surge from the blood sugar. The blood sugar. It's not a bad thing that our blood sugar heightens necessarily because we need it. That is fuel for our brain, that's fuel for our cells. But what can happen when you're eating more processed foods or when you're not having the right balance of foods is you can get these spikes that have falls that are just as sharp and that can cause kind of, you get these surges of energies and then you have the low that follows. So the low that follows can be like lower energy, lower, lower mood, more intense hunger. So when we're putting this through the lens of like a processed diet again there it's not just the fact that these foods can be more highly processed, but they're not necessarily, necessarily helping us stabilize those blood sugars because they tend to be more carb heavy and carb focused to stabilize blood sugars. We do want to eat carbohydrates. It's not that they're bad, but we want to eat them with other foods that contain proteins, healthy fats, and fiber, because those other nutrients help blunt that blood sugar sugar response. So that instead of this huge spike and huge fall, we're getting a steady, gradual increase in our blood sugars. That gives us more sustained energy. That kind of dissipates more slowly throughout the day too.

[A]

Okay, that is extremely clarifying, because that was gonna be. My next question is, why are processed foods so. Why are they so demonized? And when I think about some of the processed foods I eat or the most highly processed foods I eat are like protein bars or like beef jerky or like beef sticks, or like Greek yogurt, all of those things are processed. And that's kind of what my question is, is it seems like obviously not all processed foods are created equal, but with foods like that, is there much of a correlation? If there's higher protein and higher nutrients, as you said, in the processed food, is there as much of a correlation with negative health benefits?

[B]

I think the short answer there is no. But it's. It's kind of complicated. Like, it's interesting because as a dietitian, it's so funny to see, like, what happens in our culture and, like, what the popular, you know, nutrition rhetoric is at the time. And right now, there's a big focus on additives in foods and specific ingredients and how that might be impacting our health. And it's not that I don't think that that's valid, because I do. Like, we obviously want to minimize ingredients that we don't fully understand, but to me, it's really more about, like, processed foods exist on a spectrum. Kind of as you're saying, we have highly ultra processed foods, and maybe protein powder does kind of fit into that. I don't know. But also, that's like candy bars, and that's maybe like fast food. But then we also have foods that are definitely processed that are more nutrient dense, and that's things like Greek yogurt, things like ready made, I don't know, grains like quinoa and little microwave packets and stuff like that. So for me, I like to focus less on labeling the food as, like, processed or unprocessed, because I just personally don't find that super helpful. And to me, it's more like, okay, is this a nutrient dense food? Is there a specific reason that I'm eating it? And I think to me, it's more helpful in guiding our food choices. Because then it's kind of like, okay, I'm having protein powder. I know it's more processed. But I'm really trying to meet my protein goals for whatever reason. So that's going to be an important thing for me to include in my day to supplement my other whole foods. And there's a specific goal in mind. So. Yeah, that's kind of how I look.

[A]

At it, I think.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Because I've always wondered. I do tend to eat a lot of protein powder, use a lot of protein powder. It's just convenient. And honestly, like I, I am not a very.

[B]

I don't really like to cook.

[A]

I'm trying to work on it.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

But I, I want to hit my protein goals and usually I get short of them unless I'm supplementing with like protein powder. And I've found a protein powder that I think has like good ingredients in it, quote, unquote. But I'm not educated in this formally, so I. We don't truly know, but from what I understand there's like better ingredients in it. And so. But I ask myself, it's super processed. So I think that's where I've been confused is like, it's super processed, but the ingredients in it are quote unquote, better. So does that make it not negative for my overall health?

[B]

Am I? No, I know exactly what you're saying. And it is complicated. And ultimately I think it's an individual decision. And like when we're like, to me thinking about things fueling to feel better, it's going to really depend on you and your life because a big part of this kind of as you're kind of getting at for your life is like what actually fits into your lifestyle and what is going to be realistic. Would an all whole foods diet where you're getting all of your macro micronutrients from whole, minimally processed foods be the best thing for you? Maybe. But we live in a really busy world. Yeah. And we, a lot of us don't have time to cook a lot. And I think we, there's a lot of validity in meeting certain, in meeting certain nutrient targets. And sometimes we need to be realistic with ourselves and we need to lean into that ease aspect as well so that we can actually meet our targets. It's also interesting too. Just like a side note, it's kind of like, okay, why would whole foods be better? And I think that's when we understand that it becomes a little bit less stressful. So whole foods are better for maybe a couple of reasons. So One, there's going to be minimal to no additives in there that we're kind of unsure about and unsure how they'll impact us. That's great. Two, generally, they're going to be more satiating foods. So if we're looking at the sustainability of a diet, that's great. They're going to be more filling, take a little bit longer to chew or whatever, be a little bit more satiating. And then also, whole foods tend to have more of those naturally occurring micronutrients that we know can maybe impact our mental health and our mood. And then we have to worry a little bit less about supplementation. So with that in mind, I always think, okay, well, if that's the base of our diet, then who cares if there's like a protein shake in there on occasion or even a fun food for the sake of pleasure? Only on occasion. Because we have the basics, we have a foundation in the rest. We can, we have a little bit more room to play with if we're focusing on that first.

[A]

Right?

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

What about low carb? When I go, I notice in myself, and maybe there's no validity to this. You'll tell. When I eat super low carb, I feel like my brain struggles. Like, I don't feel as, like, sharp before I teach or before even I go on a podcast or something, I try to eat some carbs right before. So that. And I find that my brain is sharper. What is that about? Or maybe that's just me.

[B]

No, I don't think it's just you. And listen, I will say, like, I really do believe that everyone thrives on a slightly different diet, and I think that's totally okay. And I know some people really, truly feel like they thrive on low carb, and I think that's totally fine. I think for a lot of us, a little bit of carbohydrate is great because again, carbohydrates break down into sugars, mostly glucose, and that is going to be the easiest form of fuel for our brain and for our cells. So having some of that and having it kind of in a stable manner throughout our day and pairing it with those other blood sugar stabilizing nutrients is probably going to make most of us feel our best. Carbs are another thing that I think have been more demonized a little bit lately. Keto and yeah, and it's interesting again to see because they do definitely serve a purpose. There's something to be said about that's our body's preferred source of fuel. I. I do think It. Most of us will feel better with them included. I think maybe where most of us can. Again, thinking through that lens of fueling to feel better is okay. We don't probably have to eliminate carbs, but let's make sure we're having mostly whole foods, carbohydrate sources. Let's make sure we're also focusing on other nutrients that we can get in more abundance for blood sugar, for muscle gain, all that stuff, protein, fiber, healthy fats. And then again, I think it's all gonna. It all works out.

[A]

Right. Right. I find that when I balance all of the macros, I feel the best.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Keto, what are your thoughts on keto?

[B]

I think I'll give kind of my personal thoughts here because it's definitely not my area of expertise. There are therapeutic uses for it, certainly. I've seen just so many people lose weight on it and gain it back. I think I tend to really look through a lens of is this going to be sustainable for you? Because I've just seen so many people hurt by diets that work until they can't keep doing the diet anymore. So I guess what I'll say is, like, if that's something that works for you, I think that's fine. Probably work with a dietitian if you can, to make sure that you're hitting your nutrient needs. It's not my preferred recommendation. Yeah. And, yeah, like, to me, just sustainability is so important. And when I think of keto, I just think there are so many other avenues I think we could try before we go to that extreme. Yeah, that I think would probably be more effective and more sustainable. But I also understand, like, I think it's just human nature to. A lot of people do better with more strict rules because there's something very clear about what to follow and what to not. And in the short term, that can feel a lot easier. And I completely understand that. But I think with something like that, if. If you know for certain you can't sustain that for the rest of your life, then the results probably won't be sustainable too. Yeah. And we'll.

[A]

I will get it more into this because we've got another episode we're recording here in a moment about intuitive eating versus dieting. So maybe we'll get into that more. So listeners will have to come back. And then also we're recording three podcasts today. The other one will be about, like, your story behind nutrition. And I know that you've kind of felt you've had your own journey with that when it comes to that as well. So again, listeners will have to come back for this. But so improving energy. You mentioned blood sugar. Tell us more about how blood sugar, why blood sugar is important. If someone is experiencing like a crash midday or if they are just low energy and they, they feel like something's up, how does blood sugar affect energy?

[B]

So I think blood sugar is part of that overall energy and mood equation as we talked about. Like, are we getting the energy we need? Are we getting big spikes and big falls or is it being delivered to us in a more even keeled sustainable manner? But I also think there's so many pieces to the energy thing. When I think about it, I think, okay, are we getting enough fuel? That first and foremost, if you're not getting enough energy in the form of calories throughout your day, you're going to be low energy. And it's interesting because I think actually a lot of people, and a lot of women in particular, even it's. A lot of people feel like they're overeating. And calorically, if some, if you, you know, struggle with your weight, ultimately you probably are eating more calories than you need. But I think a trap, anecdotally, a trap that a lot of women fall into is kind of under eating until they just can't take it anymore. And then it leads to more of those like binging and overeating behaviors. And I feel like what a lot of women are afraid of is fueling enough intentionally and like being okay with your meals being bigger, with having snacks at regular intervals and really making your target a more appropriate and realistic one. And ultimately it can help us eat, yes, enough, but also help us overeat less and eat a more appropriate amount of calories for us. Sorry, this is a bit of a tangent.

[A]

No, but I think it's so appropriate with Thanksgiving coming up because I think I know you're from Canada, so you don't celebrate Thanksgiving. But for us, us ladies, I think that a lot of people, I've done this in my past where we know there's a big food celebration coming up and you restrict a lot, either the day of or maybe the day before. And then when the celebration comes, you find yourself like eating so much that you get sick almost. And so this is just what you're talking about is just very timely.

[B]

Yeah, no, it's so, it's so interesting and it happens a lot around holidays. But I think more women fall into this trap in every day than, than people realize too because again, it might be people who struggle with with maybe weight gain or feeling like they struggle to achieve weight loss. And so of course we know like you need to be in a. If you're struggling to lose weight, if you're gaining weight, you're going to be in a bit of a calorie surplus. But it's kind of, it's interesting to think about it. It's like, where is that surplus coming from? Is it because, as we talked about here, like, is it because you're under eating at your meals and your snacks and then you're having these bigger overeating episodes and so overall your calorie needs are being exceeded or. Yeah, anyway, sorry, a bit of a tangent, but to go back to energy. So I always think first about are you eating enough? Also, are you eating too much? Like again, that can contribute to blood sugar swings too. If we're having, you know, if we're under eating at certain meals and then we're having a huge meal later, a really carb focused meal later, that can also contribute to bigger swings in blood sugar. That can impact energy levels too. And then also the distribution of macronutrients on your plate. So are the carbohydrates there. Great. Do we have those other nutrients on the plate that can also help with other goals and can help stabilize the blood sugar too? And then of course, we want some micronutrients in the mix there too, that can support our energy and metabolism and, and all that.

[A]

Yeah. And I want to touch on micronutrients here in a moment. When we're thinking about the proportion of carbs to fat to protein in a meal or in a snack, is this something that we want to think about, you know, having in the right doses or is it just kind of get a carb, get a protein, get a fat at each meal and don't overthink it?

[B]

I think it depends on your goal. I think if we're really, if you're trying to take a more relaxed approach to eating, I think, yeah, just having a little bit of everything there, I think is a great first step. If we're talking about people who are maybe taking evlo and they're wanting to work more in body composition goals or work more on gaining muscle, then we want to get a little bit more in particular. But for general energy and mood, to me it's more about. But let's just make sure some of everything's there. I, I will say the one kind of caveat to this is I think a lot of us can maybe accidentally overserve the carbohydrates and focus a little less on those other nutrients. I think if we can shift the proportions of our plate a little bit, a lot of us will benefit and how we feel and what that actually looks like. In particular, protein. It is so interesting to me because you'll hear on social media so many people say, like, more. We. We as Americans, like, we're getting more than enough protein. But when you actually look at how many calories people are eating and what the proportion of their macronutrients are, and with muscle building in mind, we're really not. You have to be so intentional to protein. Yeah, it's really hard. So I think if we can shift the focus a little bit more on protein, sprinkle in some healthy fats, make sure we've got our fruits and vegetables there that have another little carb source that we enjoy somewhere, then that's probably good enough.

[A]

Yeah, I love that. I always think about, like, protein first. Like, my husband and I will plan our meals around, like, what protein are we gonna have? And then what can we have, like, as sides. Yeah. So we'll do, like, okay, we're gonna have chicken on Tuesday. What do we want to do with the chicken? Or, like, we're gonna have, like, beef. Beef. Ground beef. Okay, let's do tacos. Yeah, the ground beef. So we always think about, like, the protein first, and that's been really helpful for me, and I do that with my lunches, too.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Micronutrients you kind of alluded to. How does this play into energy, mood, mental health?

[B]

Yeah, so micronutrients plays into all of it, and there's different reasons for it. You know, some micronutrients might actually, like, go on to alter neurotransmitter in the brain, and they can impact mood potentially in that way. Some are involved in, like, energy metabolism, and they have to be there as, like, a co factor in certain reactions. I generally. I don't like to stress people out about, like, focusing, giving them a list of, like, 30 micronutrients to focus on in different foods. Again, if you are getting solid proteins, you're getting healthy fats. If you're getting fiber, lots of colorful fruits and vegetables, you've probably got your bases covered. Where energy can be most directly impacted, I think, is when we're facing some specific deficiencies. So common ones would maybe be, like B12, vitamin D, iron, even zinc. All those things can definitely, if we're not getting enough, can certainly play into our energy. Also, with micronutrients, too, we have to think of again, what foods are containing the micronutrients that we're thinking about. So yes, those foods have these micronutrients that might have a direct impact on our energy metabolism or on our brain health. But also those foods also tend to contain anti inflammatory properties or antioxidant properties, other phytochemicals that can benefit our body and our brain in other ways as well. So definitely micronutrients can play a role. If you're getting a variety of foods, not eliminating food groups blindly without the help of a professional and getting lots of color that usually we're good to go.

[A]

Yeah, I, I know the whole vegan vegetarian thing is, you know, controversial, but when it comes to micronutrients, if someone is vegan or vegetarian, I know there's a lot of micronutrients in animal products. Is there, do you recommend supplementing for somebody like that or are there some plant based foods that have, that are really rich in micronutrients that if you're missing the animal products you might lean a little bit more into?

[B]

Yeah, I think it depends on whether you're eating some animal products like dairy and eggs even. I know some certain types of vegetarians might eat fish or whether you're completely plant based. You're including, if you don't eat meat, but you're including things like, you know, Greek yogurt, cottage cheese, milk, eggs, all that kind of stuff, probably most of your bases are covered if you have a thoughtfully planned diet and you're getting enough protein just because a lot of those protein containing foods on a vegetarian diet tend to contain those important micronutrients too. If you're totally plant based, it, it's my opinion that I think you need some professional guidance just to select your, your foods. And I think it, I, I think you likely will need supplementation and I think professional guidance is the way to go with that. It's hard to meet your micronutrient needs on a totally plant based diet, especially if you don't have the education to know. Because it's complicated. Right?

[A]

Totally. You mentioned dairy. I eat a lot of dairy. Me too. It's so fun. I know you do too. I always see Greek yogurt in a lot of your recipes. So I used to cut out dairy because I heard it was like inflammatory. And I don't know if this was because it's processed or if there's something else in the dairy that it was touted as being inflammatory. But then I added it back in and I'm like, I feel great. Eating dairy, Like I, I truly feel like no difference when I eat dairy.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

So what's up with that? Do you think there's any validity to dairy being inflammatory? Or maybe it's just person to person?

[B]

I mean it's, I mean, definitely person to person. Like some dairy is interesting because obviously we have lactose intolerance people or we have people with dairy allergies perhaps. And of course in those cases that's not going to leave you feeling your best and it would appropriate to eliminate dairy or if you just don't like it, totally fine. I, I don't know where the dairy inflammation thing comes from. There's like a little bit of research that indicates towards that, but most of the research points towards dairy being health promoting, if not anti inflammatory. So I think it's super interesting. I also think we have to think about like, okay, what dairy source are we talking about? If we're talking. If all our dairy is coming from super high fat cheeses that are lower in protein, sure. Maybe that's not gonna leave us feeling our vest. If we're talking about, you know, balanced Greek yogurt, cottage cheese, these really nutrient dense, low sugar foods. I mean, I think they're wonderful. Yeah. They make, when we're thinking about protein too, like they make getting your protein a lot easier. I don't want to eat chicken every meal.

[A]

No, I know, like, like chicken for breakfast. Like a Greek yogurt with some berries. Like, that's my jam. Or cottage cheese with berries. That's my jam.

[B]

I will say, like, there are some health conditions where it might be appropriate to like test this out again, probably with the, with the help of a health professional like PCOS is one that comes to mind where like maybe low fat dairy is thought to perhaps cause some inflammation. But again, I think it really depends on the person and you really have to just trial this for yourself. If you feel good on dairy, I think that's a great sign. Yeah, totally.

[A]

And then the low fat versus full fat.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Is there, what do you recommend or do you do both?

[B]

I. So again there is a little bit of research that points toward high, higher fat, minimum processed area. Again we're kind of thinking about those like Greek yogurts and cottage cheese, the higher fat maybe being a little less inflammatory in the long term. But I don't think there's strong enough research to really say that. And I think it again, just probably depends on the person. So to me depends on you and your preference and your goals. If you're working on protein you might find it easier to choose lower fat dairy because it just tends to have fewer calories, higher protein because of that less fat in it. If you prefer higher fat, that's totally fine. It works with your goals. I think that's great.

[A]

Yeah, love, love that answer. Just love your whole approach. Like, it's just so, like, it's so realistic and like not fear mongery and it feels like this breath of fresh air. It's like, oh, yeah, let's just. Because I think what happens is people get so paralyzed by all information that they don't have. They're not consistent with anything or they, they, they yo yo around. Which is what I want to ask you next. I think you kind of alluded to people undereating, like at some meals and then maybe overeating or like binging on the weekends or whatever. So I think a lot of people find themselves in this yo yo, I've been there. Why do you think this happens? I mean, we kind of alluded to why we think it happens, but how can you be more consistent if you find yourself kind of always yo yoing with diets and, and you know, under eating and then overeating and like losing weight and gaining weight and yo yoing around. What do you recommend for somebody like that?

[B]

Yeah, so first I just want to say, like, thank you for complimenting my approach. But I want to say it's funny because it is completely a product of learning about education. And so I'm a second career dietitian actually. So I went back to school to study this in my 20s after having another career in marketing. And I went into my education with a certain idea of like, what I thought nutrition was and what I would accomplish and learn through that. And it's so funny. Like you go in and you know, you take a couple classes in chemistry and metabolism and you're like, oh, actually it's way too complicated to be stressed about it because there's just, it's just like not how some people paint it to be. Right? Like, it's not like this one food can have eaten once, can have the capacity to really do anything in the absence of allergies or, you know, adverse reactions and stuff like that. So I just want to say it's funny, like the more you learn about nutrition, the more you realize there's like so many unanswered questions and to stress about it would be so unproductive. So that's, I think, like why I've become like that. It's just like, well, I, it's just too unclear still.

[A]

Right, right. And it's so hard to study nutrition because, you know, how do you standardize somebody's diet? I mean, I guess you could for a short period of time, but for the long term, it's really difficult to standardize that. I think that's why it's interesting when they do studies on, like, the blue zones and, like, how they're eating. But I also think the blue zones, there's more to it than just nutrition. As to why they're healthy.

[B]

Yes. Like, I feel the same way. Yeah.

[A]

Like, I feel like sunlight, sense of community, a slower lifestyle in general. Like, maybe that could be. Have a bigger impact than what they're eating.

[B]

Timely.

[A]

I'm not educated on this.

[B]

I don't. Listen to me. But that's just my hypothesis. No, I feel the same way. And like, it's one of those things. Where could we learn from their dietary patterns? Totally. Can we incorporate some of that? I think so. But we also have to give credit to their lifestyle overall. And, you know, let's learn from all of that.

[A]

Yes, yes. So I think we can just leave the listeners with a few takeaways. If they are someone who feels like they're struggling to stay consistent and they're yo yoing where how can we simplify things for them?

[B]

Yeah. Okay. So I think we can break this down in a few different easy ways. So let's. So when for yo yoing, I think a lot of the times just, it's not your fault. It's. I think we're just setting ourselves up with unrealistic plans, ultimately unsustainable plans. And if you're yo yoing, I think it's a sign that we just need to tweak the plan. And that's okay. It doesn't have to be stressful. And I think there are ways to tweak it so that you can feel like you're able to stick to something. So with that in mind, I think think this. I will say it's all a little bit of trial and error. Um, so don't get stressed out if the first time you attempt this, it's not working either. You can play with this, but I think, you know, let's focus on eating an appropriate amount. Um, eating enough for someone taking avalo, maybe that looks like eating. Looks like eating at maintenance for a little while. If you want to have a calorie deficit, let's make it small and only decreases needed.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

Um, so that's something to have in mind, I think. Make sure. You have all those macronutrients in balance. So focus on protein. I like, it really depends on where you're starting out with. With protein, but I think anywhere from like 0.7 to 1 grams of protein per pound of body weight, it's usually a good target for a lot of people. But if that feels unrealistic to you, then just shoot up by 5 to 10 grams of protein per meal. That's a great place to start, too. Make sure you have, you know, lots of fiber and healthy fats in your day. Don't eliminate anything unless you have medical guidance to do so or you really feel like you need to. And, you know, a big part of my philosophy and what's worked for me as well is like, don't. Don't make it harder than it needs to be. Like. And what I mean by that specifically is, okay, start like, this is just one example, but start by eating at your maintenance. Do it for however many weeks. See how you feel. Maybe you never need to pull your calories lower than that. Maybe you can gain muscle on that and lose some fat on that and feel amazing on that. And if you don't, then we tweak. Then we can make it maybe a little bit more challenging with a goal in mind. But I find, like, we just really over complicate it and we go to, like, the more difficult approach first often when I think an easier approach would probably be just as effective for a lot of us.

[A]

And a lot of people don't even know where their maintenance is.

[B]

Oh. Because. Or.

[A]

Or what that feels like. So, like, if someone's like, I have no idea where my maintenance is.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And obviously there's calculators that you can use to get, like a ballpark. But even those calculators I've heard, like, aren't always super accurate. So if someone is, what should maintenance feel like? Should it feel like you're full all the time? Should you be hungry sometimes? Should you never be hungry?

[B]

What does that feel like? I think the expectation. No, like, I think it. I mean, hunger is needed. That's normal. Like, we're going to. I think it's totally normal to feel hungry sometimes. I think what's not normal is, like, having hunger and ignoring it. That's not something that should be frequently happening when we're at maintenance. If we have the right balance of nutrients there. I'll say, like, maintenance can feel different depending on the macronutrients that comprise that. So if we're eating at maintenance and it's. It's all carbohydrates and we're getting like 50 grams of protein a day. We're probably going to feel starving. But if you're eating at your maintenance and you have enough protein and then you also have some carbs and your fats in there, that should feel like you have pretty stable energy, barring other lifestyle factors. It should feel like you're sleeping pretty well. It should feel that you feel your hunger. That is important that you do get hungry, but that it, you know, you're mostly able to easily to eat until you're comfortably full. I think that's what it feels like. And there's different components of that. It's not just eating at your maintenance, as I said. Like, it's about the macronutrients that are a part of that. And it's also about the frequency at which you're eating and making sure the size of your meals is pretty even throughout your day. But I think that's what it feels like. It should feel like easy. It should feel easier.

[A]

Right?

[B]

It's never easy, I think, but it should feel easier. Yeah, yeah.

[A]

And I think, you know, the blood sugar can distract you or can make you give you a false sense of hunger, which I think is really important that we talked about blood sugar before getting into this conversation. So people can focus on managing their blood sugar by getting all the macronutrients at each meal and then maybe they have more of a true sense of hunger rather than just getting like the blood sugar crash and getting the hunger from them.

[B]

Yeah. And I will say, because that we're probably talking to a lot of EVLO members, this has been something I've learned through more through personal experience as well, is that when you are doing like when you're taking, when you're intentionally strength training with the goal of building muscle, my experience has been that you become a bit more sensitive to that protein intake. So if you're under eating protein even by a little bit, I think it can really impact your hunger and how easy it feels to stick to a certain way of eating. So if you are an evil member, you're working on strength training, I do think, and you feel like you're. You feel like you have a pretty balanced diet. I think trying to up that protein can be a super helpful first place to start too, and see how your body reacts to that. Um, I know personally, like, I'm very sensitive to it when I'm strength training, so something to think about too. I don't think. I'm not one of those people who thinks like it's pro protein is the only important thing. But I just think so many women under eat it. And it's not just about whether or not we can gain muscle with adequate protein. It's like how do we feel with inadequate protein?

[A]

And that's so interesting because I kind of feel the same. Like on leg day especially, I get so much hungrier and I, and at night I find like last night I had, I had my dinner that was like very balanced, macronutrient wise. It felt great, big, nice bowl, lots of stuff. Oh no, I had tacos last night. Doesn't matter anyways, but after I finished my tacos I was like, I'm, I'm still hungry. So I went back and I made like a Greek yogurt bowl with more protein and then I was like, now I feel Greek great. Yes. So it in yesterday was like day. So I'm like, it is interesting. I feel the exact same way.

[B]

Like so interesting. And it might be like, hey, like your energy needs are not going to be the same every single day. It might need that. You need more calories that day and more protein and that's great too. And I think a big part of this like sustainability and stopping yo yoing as well is like stressing a little less over those day to day changes as well. Like maybe you do need an extra Greek yogurt bowl that day. And I know that can feel scary for some people because on paper it looks like going over our maintenance. But if you're truly very hungry and you're eating balanced the rest of the day and then your body probably needs it.

[A]

Yes, I love that. I love that. And we're going to get into this again with the intuitive eating stuff because that I think falls into like just listening to your body. So we'll do a separate episode on that in here in just a moment. Well, this is awesome. Everyone needs to go listen to the next two episodes that you're going to be on. But for now tell us where we can find you, work with you. You've got a great tik Tok.

[B]

Oh, thank you.

[A]

And Instagram.

[B]

But you like Tick Tock more.

[A]

Are you still liking Tick Tock?

[B]

I've given up on Tick Tock.

[A]

Wait, really?

[B]

Yeah, I mean we talked.

[A]

You would love it.

[B]

I know. I, I, I still post my videos there. I find it a lot less predictable in terms of what does well and what doesn't. So I'm still there, but I'm a little bit more back on Instagram these days. But yeah, my handle is Real Life nutritionist with dots in between the words. Right now, I'm actually not taking on nutrition clients just for right now. That might change. And it's been, yeah, it's been fun focusing more on content and some recipe development stuff. But feel, please, feel free to follow me there. I've got a website with lots of very easy recipes, reallifenutritionist.com and yeah, your.

[A]

Recipes are right up my alley because a lot of them don't require, they don't even require cooking or baking. It's just like assembling, which is my jam.

[B]

Yeah, me too. Me too. I love it. I love it.

[A]

Well, you thank, thank you so much. You'll see you and thank you, listeners. We'll see you all next week, same time, same place. Bye for now.