Loading summary
Transcript226 lines
- [00:00]
A
If you are loving what you're learning in the podcast and you want to start applying it to your fitness routine, you can try one of our free classes. No credit card required. Just drop your email to get access. This is a upper body build class taught by myself. To take the class, visit portal.evlofitness.com I'm Dr. Shannon Richie. I'm a doctor of physical therapy, fitness trainer, and founder of Evil Fitness. In the Dr. Shannon show, you'll learn applicable tools to improve your health based on science.
- [00:32]
B
Welcome to the show.
- [00:40]
A
Welcome back, everyone. Today we have Peyton on the podcast, and we have been wanting to do this podcast for a really long time. Now, just a quick disclaimer before we get into this episode. We will be talking about fertility, about ivf, about loss. So if that's something that you feel like you're not in a place to listen to right now, feel free to leave this conversation and come back to us when you're ready. But we really. We were going to talk about this right after we interviewed a fertility doctor because we wanted the two episodes to be kind of back to back so that you could reference the kind of science of fertility with the conversation with the fertility doctor. But she was sick, and so we're trying to reschedule with her. And Peyton and I are just realizing we just kind of want to get this information out. And I know, Peyton, this has been something that's been kind of painful for you to sit on and not talk about publicly because it sort of feels like maybe you're hiding something or something.
- [01:41]
B
Right? No, it's. It's definitely been an interesting almost year, really, of feeling like I have this huge thing that's happening in my life, and I feel like I am an open book, especially to, I mean, to everyone, but especially to members. And it feels like a really big thing that no one knows about except those that are close to me, which is totally fine. And that's a normal thing. But we're in this interesting position of we have these members and these people who are seeing us day in and day out, and they feel almost like family to me. And so I feel almost this responsibility in a way to share what's been going on with me and not from a place. I feel really good about having this conversation now. I feel really excited about having this conversation, but I think it's an important one to have because of those reasons.
- [02:34]
A
Yeah, totally. And you show up and teach every single week, and there have been so many weeks where, you know, you were crying and we were crying and it was. And you still showed up and taught a lot of times the same day or the next day. And you have put on such a brave face throughout all of this. And so I think maybe sharing it might feel kind of freeing for you too. Absolutely. So, well, let's just start where we kind of left off. So we talked about your fertility journey and the story that you had been through thus far. In February, we did an episode that's number 154 in case you want kind of the full background. So we won't go into all of that today. What I want you to do kind of from here is pick up where we left off from there. So the last time the listeners heard you were starting IVF was that.
- [03:23]
B
No, you hadn't said it. I hadn't said it yet, but I was just about to start IVF when that episode came out.
- [03:28]
A
That's right. Okay, so fill us in on the story since. Since we left off.
- [03:32]
B
Yes. So in that episode, talking about getting diagnosed with endo, endometriosis, getting diagnosed with pcos, we really wanted to take that episode and explain the science behind things as much as we could in regards to exercise, what we can do for exercise, especially specifically targeting pcos. But at that point in my journey, I had already made the decision that IVF was going to be the next route for me. But at that point, we both, you and I, and we, as in me and my husband, weren't really sure what that looked like to share yet with the world because there was so much ambiguity around what it would mean for us. So taking it back a little bit to last year when I was diagnosed around the same time almost that exactly a year ago, having the conversation with my doctor of what do these diagnoses mean for me. And at that point she let us know that because of my diagnoses as well as things that were implicated with my husband, it was a less than 5% chance that I would get pregnant and maintain a, a pregnancy on my own naturally. And I'm a very, I'm, I'm this weird combination of a very fact based person, but also a very spiritual person and very, I would say, intuitive person. I, I'm very accepting and knowing that I believe that things happen as they're supposed to. But I, I asked before going into that meeting, into that appointment, my hope for the appointment, and I, you probably remember this is, I wanted clarity, like give me an answer as to where I should go next, what should happen next. And that less than 5% chance felt very clear to me. So I was very. I was very thankful for that. As, like, hard and as scary of a number that was, I was very thankful for it. And additionally, so many people go through something called IUI before they ever go through ivf. I did not. And that was for a few different reasons. So IUI is artificial insemination. And for me, and with my diagnoses, my. One of my fallopian tubes is completely blocked, and the other is basically blocked. They were able to kind of shove stuff through it with the test, but it's likely that my eggs don't have a great path down. And so with artificial insemination, you're placing this sperm into a potentially better spot that they can get to the egg better. But my eggs aren't in that spot anyway, aren't getting there. So that's why my doctor mentioned that would be about an 8% chance of success for me, so not much better than it happening in the wild. So we decided both from that perspective, the. The actual physiological perspective, as well as what our insurance would cover through Tommy's work, my husband's work, it made a lot of sense just to go straight to IVF for our particular situation. So we kind of made that decision in. In November or December of last year, but takes a long time for these things to get rolling, so didn't get to get started and until the very beginning of March. So right after that episode came out. Yes.
- [06:41]
A
So you did your first cycle of egg retrievals. Tell us what that looked like.
- [06:47]
B
Yeah. So going into that process with ivf. So in vitro fertilization, you have to go through the egg retrieval process first. So that looks the same whether you're just freezing your eggs or going through ivf. It's the identical. It's an identical process, which is interesting, and I don't think a lot of people know that. So going into that first process, I felt very prepared. I felt my. My mindset was really positive around it. With my particular clinic, they require that once you start injections, or they call them stems or stimulation injections, you cannot exercise vigorously at all, including, like, lifting any weights, really. And. And the risk there is ovarian torsion. So as your ovaries are growing bigger and bigger, because you're stimulating a lot of eggs at once, instead of just one that you would. In a typical cycle, your ovaries get bigger and you have risk of torsion where they actually twist from vigorous exercise or even things like yoga, just bending over the. These different movements. So my clinic was very Clear on pretty much walking only as far as exercise. So we knew at this point from a business perspective. Okay, I, I need to pre record classes. Cuz you also 8 and 9 months pregnant at this time. Yeah.
- [08:06]
A
Yeah.
- [08:06]
B
It was crazy timing. Crazy timing. So I luckily had made the decision in December, so basically was able to start pre recording at the very beginning of January.
- [08:16]
A
Yeah.
- [08:17]
B
So that was already an interesting time period for me.
- [08:19]
A
Did anyone even notice that you had pre recorded anything?
- [08:22]
B
No, no one, no one said anything. It was interesting. We had gotten our wall done like right at the perfect timing to where I could start it to where it wouldn't look obvious. And maybe, maybe people notice. Maybe they'll know, right? Be like, no, we noticed. Yeah, I don't, I don't think that people noticed. And it was definitely a big undertaking pre recording, but was worth it to be able to feel really safe and be able to take the. It was ended up being like four weeks for that retrieval both before and then the recovery period after that I couldn't lift even on my own. Um, so was tough from the perspective of getting all those classes in. But. But then I simultaneously felt just like really strong, really good. Had this very positive mindset of it's gonna work really well this first time, everything's gonna be great, and then we'll move on to the transfer process and I'll have a baby by, you know, this time period. So that's kind of where I was mentally going into it.
- [09:21]
A
Yeah. And I think also you weren't ready to share necessarily that this is what you were going through at the time.
- [09:29]
B
Right. You.
- [09:30]
A
There was so much uncertainty around it. So prerecording classes and not telling people I'm prerecording classes was kind of like where you were at. And I feel like you are such an open book that you did eventually plan on saying things, but in the beginning it just felt like what's, what's going on here? Like, it's felt like a lot of uncertainty.
- [09:48]
B
Yeah. I think we've, we've done a good job to make sure that we're not sharing things, both you and I, until we've kind of process things or emotionally. And so that was one of the pieces for me is okay, I've never gone through this myself. So while I feel like I could talk about it now, I don't have a whole lot of context to give at this point. And it. So it felt maybe a little safer to just go this route. First of not saying anything with the intention of. I knew I Was going to say something eventually because it's just my personality.
- [10:22]
A
Yeah. Right.
- [10:23]
B
And it's such a big thing that I think is important to talk about.
- [10:26]
A
Yeah, agreed.
- [10:27]
B
Yeah.
- [10:28]
A
So you did the egg retrievals, and then from there you go into embryos, right?
- [10:34]
B
Yep.
- [10:35]
A
So tell us the process.
- [10:36]
B
Yep.
- [10:36]
A
Tell us what happened.
- [10:37]
B
So with that first retrieval in March, I. The stimulations and everything went really well. You probably. Oh, you weren't here for that one. No, I wasn't. I was gonna say, you probably remember you weren't here for that.
- [10:48]
A
I was on Matt leave.
- [10:48]
B
Yeah. Yeah. Or you were there for my. The actual stems of that one because it was right before your maternity leave because my. My retrieval was. Liv was born.
- [10:58]
A
Oh, yeah.
- [10:59]
B
So we. I was here and.
- [11:00]
A
That's right. Okay.
- [11:02]
B
So I. Every day I got to work and I was like, I'm feeling pretty good. I'm feeling pretty good. Like, I. I don't know. Everyone says that this part's really tough and you have a lot of bloating and all, which is very common. And I was very lucky. I didn't have a lot of physical symptoms or emotional symptoms during this first. First round. And things were looking good. Everything was moving along as it was supposed to. My eggs were growing in. They were growing at the same rate, which is really important. And what they look for, it's. It can happen sometimes where some are growing big and some are. Are lagging behind, so then they have a tough time retrieving more. And for me, luckily, they were all kind of growing at the same rate. And. And so things were going well there. And then we did the retrieval and I got 20 eggs, which is the exact average number for my age group. With everything I have going on, like, was exactly on the money for what we expected. So we're like, okay, step one is good. It's this whole weird process, as you'll hear and as you know. But maybe the audience doesn't know.
- [12:04]
A
No, yeah, I didn't.
- [12:05]
B
I certainly didn't anything about this before.
- [12:07]
A
You went through it.
- [12:08]
B
Yeah, same. So you. You do the retrieval, and then the next day, my clinic emailed me telling me how many of the eggs that were retrieved were actually mature eggs so that they could combine them with sperm. So of the 20, 19 of that first round were. Or of the 20, only 14 of that first round were mature. So which is. Is not uncommon. You expect a drop off at each place, and the drop off percentage is based on your age and everything else you have going on. So that was, like, about. In Line maybe a little bit bigger of a drop off than we would expect. But then of those 14 mature eggs, all of them fertilized. So we were like, wow, that's great.
- [12:46]
A
I remember this. It was like, good news, good news, good news.
- [12:49]
B
Yeah, we're like not dropping off. That's perfect. So that first round, I got 14. And a lot of people don't share their numbers, which I get for protecting, like their own peace and self. I'm happy to share all this because it could be helpful for someone. I know it was helpful for me going through when I was able to listen to other people's stories. So disclaimer there. But I got 14, 14 fertilized. So then that meant that they were going to watch those 14, the, the comb, the combined fertilized eggs over and check them again in six days. So on day six post retrieval is when they would check them. And you expect with my age group, it would be about a 50% drop off. So that's kind of what I was mentally preparing for. And then on that sixth day, we found out that it went from 14 to four. So four had made it to the zygote stage, or I'm sorry, the blastocyst stage of embryos that could then be sent off for genetic testing. So that was the first kind of major shock in all of this and a really hard day. And that one, you, that one, you were on your mat leave. So it was. I remember I was sitting next to Jill and I pulled up the email and just immediately was just in shock.
- [14:06]
A
Yeah.
- [14:07]
B
And it was such an interesting feeling because up to this point I was like, rolling, rolling, we're doing great. Everything's great. And then it was, it was the first sign of like, okay, this might not go as smoothly as one would anticipate.
- [14:20]
A
Yeah, I wish I would have been there for that because I can assume that it would be scary.
- [14:27]
B
Yeah.
- [14:27]
A
To you. You weren't sure, like, okay, what does this mean next?
- [14:31]
B
Right. Yeah, right. Because then from there, then there's another drop off of which are going to be genetically normal. And this is a phase in ivf. This is a space where people make decisions whether to do genetic testing or not. I decided to do genetic testing. That's what my doctor recommended. And just for the, to. To see which were genetically normal to then be able to give an embryo the highest chance of likelihood of success once it's transferred. So they biopsy the, like, outer ring of the blastocyst and, and then freeze it, Freeze that blastocyst. So it's just ready to go. And they send off the biopsy for genetic testing. And it took about two weeks to get the results. And we went from four to one.
- [15:16]
A
Yeah.
- [15:17]
B
So that was the next. That was the next hard day of. Okay, we had four. Four that had the potential we would expect two or more to make it and only one did. So that was another pretty shocking day that then led into having to make a quick decision for where to go from there.
- [15:36]
A
Yeah, yeah, I think I remember that. Didn't you come over and we talked about it?
- [15:40]
B
Yes, yes, yes, yes, I came and visited you.
- [15:43]
A
Yeah.
- [15:43]
B
Towards the end of your maternity.
- [15:44]
A
Yeah. Or in the middle you were grappling with. Should I just go ahead and transfer this one or should I go through this process again, which was like hard and, you know, emotional and there's like, it's expensive. So then you decided to.
- [16:03]
B
Decided to go for another round. So our thought process behind that was again both physiological reasoning as well as playing the insurance game. So with the type of insurance, Atomy has one. I feel so lucky and blessed that we have any insurance coverage of IVF because it is such an expensive process and most people do not have that benefit. So very, very grateful for that. But the way that my insurance worked. Our insurance worked was that, let's say we transferred that one successful one genetically normal embryo. If we had transferred it and it was a success, which is obviously what we would hope for. My. The insurance, I would lose any other benefits that I had in the bank basically from this. This specific fertility insurance. So once you have it, they call it a live birth, like a live child in arm. They won't pay for anything else, even if you have credits left. Because that's how this one worked. It's. You had different kind of credits or cycles.
- [17:01]
A
Yeah.
- [17:02]
B
And so it was a really. I. I feel like I knew right away that I wanted to go ahead and do another round just. Cause I knew that I would regret it if I didn't take the opportunity to try one more time and let that be the end of it. Um, and. But my husband had a harder time with it and he had a hard time because it was tough. Although I had like a fairly smooth process going through it the first time in terms of how I was feeling physically, mentally. It was tough. And it's tough on a. And it's tough on your relationship. And so it was a big conversation that we ultimately decided, okay, let's go for it. And so we made the plans to do another round and we ended up doing it in May of last year.
- [17:53]
A
What were the differences in your second round?
- [17:56]
B
So it was interesting because during my first round, I didn't have any, like, stories around not being able to exercise. I honestly didn't think about it at all. I was like, okay, I got my classes in the bank. Don't have to worry about it. Like, this is going to be a month off. It just is what it is. I'll, I'll keep walking. I'll stay as active as I can within the parameters, but no big deal. And then when the realization came that I was going to likely do it again or really needed to do it again, that was a big. That's when the fear started setting in for me of, okay, I've just had a month off of exercise. I'm a fitness instructor that has to show up physically on camera every single week. And at this time I was doing three classes a week. Like, what is this gonna look like? And no one knows that I'm going through this. Right, right. So, and so that's when it started to get tough for me. And not to mention a much shorter time period to prerecordation classes in. But luckily you were coming back towards the end of my. The time period where I would be. Have those restrictions in place. So you were able to take off one of my classes and we, I think we post one singular old class during this whole time period.
- [19:05]
A
I can't believe that you did that.
- [19:06]
B
Like, that is. And that was really important to me too because I didn't want anything that I was going through personally to affect the membership.
- [19:13]
A
Yeah, but I mean, I think, I think everyone. And that's how you are just as a person. And just so the audience gets a.
- [19:20]
B
Full context of this, I have to force you to take days off. Like you, you're.
- [19:24]
A
You care so much about your job and you're so passionate about your job, which is just absolutely shows in everything you do. Tell us more about like the fear of that. Were you, what were you afraid of? I guess for other people. Were you afraid of like losing muscle or what Was it that. That was scary for you with that?
- [19:43]
B
I think at that point I started to fear like, you know, a month felt like nothing to me. Uh, but having a consecutive. Then another, another consecutive month, like pretty much right after while taking injection, hormone injections felt like, could this derail everything that I've, I've established all of these, this baseline muscle, because muscle's very hard for me to build. Like, even though I logically know that it can, can Come right back. It was like, okay, I am likely going to have a significant decrease in muscle, probably an increase in fat just based on the hormones that I'm having to inject and the, like, how I'm, the lifestyle that I'm having to ensue at this point in time. And no one knows. I think that was this, it was this weird thing because we've talked about this a little bit before when you're pregnant or postpartum out, granted, at the beginning of pregnancy, I'm sure this is a similar feeling before you've been able to tell people. But when you're, especially when you're like pregnant and people know that you're pregnant or you're postpartum, like there's a quote unquote reason why you have these physical changes and everyone's in on them and everyone is like, you know, supporting and all of the things. So this felt like, wow, I could, it's. There's a potential that I could have pretty significant changes and who knows what, what. How the EBLO members or other people are going to fill in the blanks with that.
- [21:13]
A
Yeah.
- [21:14]
B
That don't know what's going on. Right.
- [21:16]
A
Your brain goes to the wor.
- [21:17]
B
Case. It's a. Yeah.
- [21:18]
A
You're like, I'm going to like, look a certain way and people are going to think I'm lazy or I'm. Or like, whatever. And it's like, the irony is I'm sure no one noticed. So now that just in case someone's going through this and kind of has similar fears, because I think that's probably a very common fear for people that are active and then all of a sudden have to take all this time off? How do you feel now that it's been, you know, several months? How do you feel like looking back on that time frame with that specific fear and then how do you feel today?
- [21:47]
B
Yeah, I. It's so interesting getting to look at it from this side of things. It's. It's such a blip in time and especially if you've established that baseline of muscle, it does come back relatively quickly when you're able to get back into your routines and, and go back to doing what you normally do. So looking back on it, it's, it's like, it's easy to say in hindsight of don't worry about it. And I was able to follow through with that in my first one, but I think reminding myself that even with compounding events that it's just, it's just one small Period of time.
- [22:27]
A
Yeah.
- [22:28]
B
And also it's. It's hard for me because. And we're going to talk about this in a future coffee chat with body image. It's hard for me because I've never. I've luckily I feel very blessed. Have never really struggled with body image. And so it felt like this fight with inside of myself, like this isn't me. I don't, I don't care in the sense of my body is what my body is. I think it was just the fight of I'm going through something so big that is effect that is affecting me and no one knows that. It was just like this internal battle.
- [23:03]
A
Yeah.
- [23:03]
B
For lack of a better way to say it.
- [23:05]
A
Well, we always talk about like being on camera can mess with you a little bit and especially when you're going through something as big and as emotional. And I'm sure at that time like you had all of these emotions, like not only emotions with what you were going through, but also like hormones that because of all the injections and things. So maybe it was like you weren't able to think like your normal self. Maybe would if you weren't going through all of that all at once.
- [23:33]
B
Yeah, no, I think that's a. I think that's a really good way to put it.
- [23:36]
A
Yeah. So after your. So tell us, you take off exercise, you do another egg retrieval.
- [23:43]
B
What happens next? Yep. So with that second egg retrieval, we adapted my protocol slightly. And this is obviously this is all through my doctor. It's not anything that I. This obviously I made the ultimate decision. But based on my doctor's recommendations, I added an extra injection that isn't covered by any insurances. So that was another thing to have to think about. But I added this extra medication. It's actually a form of growth hormone that can help that it re. It shown in research to help with the outcome of getting more viable embryos. So we ultimately made the decision of, hey, I'm going through this again already. Might as well throw everything that we can at it. It wasn't changing completely everything, but adding this one step that, that my doctor had recommended. And she had recommended it for the first round too. But at that point I was like, oh no, it'll be fine. Everything's gonna go really well this first round. Yeah, hindsight again, 2020, everyone needs to make that decision for themselves. And I, I have no regrets really, but decided to do that extra medication. And we had a similar number in terms of the number of eggs retrieved. We had 21 eggs retrieved and of those 21, 20 of them were mature. So already we were like, okay, maybe the medication helped with getting more mature eggs. So then almost all were fertilized. I think 19 of those were fertilized successfully. So again, another big, um, or 18 were fertilized. We're like, okay, yay, this is gonna go great. And. And then we get to day six and they check on, check on the embryos. And of the 18, three had made it. So again, that was another kind of big dagger point of this huge. An even bigger drop off. Cuz last time we had gone from 14 to 4. And then this time we go from 18 to 3.
- [25:38]
A
Yeah.
- [25:39]
B
And I had in my back of my head, okay, we went from then four to one. Are we going to even get any?
- [25:45]
A
I remember this point so clearly because I remember you, you thinking, like, we might not even get any from this.
- [25:53]
B
Yeah.
- [25:53]
A
And I remember we had so many conversations when you were going through this. And I remember just you thinking, like, if I even just get one, like, I will be thrilled, thrilled, thrilled. And I. This is what is so crazy about this process that I really didn't realize until you went through it is that there's so many steps in which you can kind of get high and low.
- [26:14]
B
So many. That's a great point.
- [26:15]
A
So many. And so it's, it's just like. And each time, like, you are the type of person that you want to feel your emotions, which I think is so healthy. And so you let yourself get excited and then you let yourself kind of like feel the disappointment and pain. And then you let yourself get excited again. And then, and then I'll be interested to hear what you think about, like, how you've changed emotionally since all of this. But I want you to finish your full story. So then, then they do the genetic testing.
- [26:42]
B
So you had four. Three this time. Three.
- [26:44]
A
That's right. And then you were hoping, you were like, I hope I just get just one.
- [26:47]
B
Yeah, just one I would be happy with. And so that was. This was honestly the hardest part in the whole process thus far, bar none, one of the hardest parts because the genetic testing ended up taking almost a full month instead of the two weeks. Remember that? And it's because it was around Memorial Day, so there was a holiday involved, and I was, I was losing my mind. Like, this was the point where I was like, okay, I have done really well at keeping my composure in terms of these waiting periods, things like that. But I was so worried that I have had just gone through this process. This second round for nothing. And so the anticipation of that was, was brutal for me.
- [27:35]
A
Yeah.
- [27:36]
B
But about, almost, about a month later, we, we get the message in our portal, and of the three, we got two healthy, two genetically normal embryos. And that was like the one of the highest days. So I remember that the swings. Yeah, the swings that you mentioned. It was such a big day of. We increased our percentages so much. So from going in the first one from four to one, this one going from three to two, it was just, it felt like such a win.
- [28:07]
A
Yeah.
- [28:07]
B
And, and I felt so much better because my, my doctor recommends having two to three genetically normal embryos per child that you want based on the statistic that with a genetically healthy and genetically normal embryo, with a transfer, the first time you transfer, there's a 65% chance of success. Then the second transfer, again with a different genetically normal embryo, that goes up to 88% chance of success. And final with the third, it goes up to a 95% chance of having a baby in your arms. So knowing those percentages, that's what, that's why her recommendation is 2 to 3. So I felt much more confident than just with having the one, which, again, if anyone's listening, that's going through this process, sometimes getting even one feels impossible and is such a win. But I, I, my hope is to have two children. Of course, at this point, it is, it is what it is. But with having that in the back of my mind, I was hopeful or wanted to do everything that I could to get more than, at least more than one. So with three, I just felt like I can breathe. I felt very confident thinking, I'll at least have one. At least have a child. Yes.
- [29:24]
A
Oh, I remember that so clearly. I remember us just celebrating, like, crying, and it was just like, it felt like, it felt like I've been through all of this and finally I have, like, some hope.
- [29:36]
B
Yes, it felt like hope.
- [29:38]
A
Yeah. And then you go through the transfer.
- [29:41]
B
So found out those results in June, and pretty quickly I started my. I did what's called a controlled protocol for a transfer. And there's a lot of different, A lot of different options. Again, hopefully my doctor gets to come on the podcast and talk about this and we can link her podcast too, in the bio, in our, in the description of this, in the show notes, because she has a lot of great resources, sources for understanding all these things. But for me, I did a controlled, which meant that my cycle was going to be completely controlled by medications and injections. And that was recommended for me based on all the many things that I have in. In my life. And. And so what we did was started. I had already been on birth control, which, again, if you're not going through this process, people are like, birth control? Why are you on birth control when you're trying to have a baby? But it's a really great way to control the cycle and to suppress, especially if you have things like Endo. And additionally, the first thing that I started with my controlled transfer was a medication called Lupron. And people can have some pretty gnarly symptoms when it comes to Lupron. It can affect you a lot emotionally. I, again, for some reason, didn't have that strong of a reaction to Lupron specifically. And that is indicated for both auto. People with autoimmune diagnoses like me, and then Endo as well. So kind of double whammy as to why we included Lupron in my protocol.
- [31:06]
A
Yeah.
- [31:07]
B
From there, we added oral estrogen. And that is what I've had the biggest effect or what has had the biggest effect on me from a hormonal and emotional perspective, even compared to the injections that I was doing during the stems. For some reason, the oral estrogen just really affected me for about two to three days every time that I either started it or had to increase my dosage. I remember one day specifically feeling. Being here at work. I think I was sitting in this chair and having to go and sit on a mat on the ground and just cry. You were here, and Jill was here, and I was like, I'm so sorry. I just feel so.
- [31:48]
A
Yeah.
- [31:49]
B
Overwhelmed. I was like, I just don't. I don't feel like myself at all.
- [31:53]
A
Yeah.
- [31:54]
B
And that was the. I think that was the only time where I felt very out of control.
- [31:58]
A
Yeah.
- [31:58]
B
Of my emotions and how I was feeling about everything.
- [32:02]
A
Yeah. Which just goes to show that, gosh.
- [32:05]
B
Everybody'S experience with this is so, so different.
- [32:07]
A
And, yeah, some people struggle the most with the injections. And. And you, like, were just such a champ through all of that. Something that was like, also, I think at that point, like, probably so much had built up for you. Yes.
- [32:21]
B
Like, 100.
- [32:22]
A
Emotionally, physically, like, you were like, oh, my gosh. And I just. You were like, when can I catch a break? Like, come on.
- [32:29]
B
And.
- [32:29]
A
And so maybe that. There was, like, a little bit of that, too.
- [32:32]
B
There's definitely a big part of that. And that's one of. That's actually one of the things, looking back on my whole journey, that I have a little bit more perspective on. That I can talk about kind of towards the end.
- [32:41]
A
Yeah.
- [32:42]
B
But and that day specifically when I had the breakdown here was when I had to increase my dose because my body was, like, eating up the estrogen, basically. Like, my levels weren't high enough, so my uterine lining wasn't getting to the place that it needed for the transfer. So my transfer was then delayed by a week.
- [33:00]
A
Yeah.
- [33:00]
B
So it was a lot. It was a lot.
- [33:01]
A
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
- [33:03]
B
Just in general, but especially then adding the. The compounding factor of having increased hormones. It was just. It was a lot. But then settled down after two days. Felt completely normal. Just very crazy.
- [33:16]
A
And then you go through the transfer that was in What, July. July.
- [33:20]
B
July 16th. Yeah, July.
- [33:22]
A
Okay. And then from there, walk us through.
- [33:27]
B
So with my controlled. With my controlled protocol leading, I started progesterone and oil injections, which is another big piece that people talk about online, like, having a lot of trouble with. It's a large needle and a thick. It's literally in oil. The progesterone is in the oil to stabilize it, I believe. And you have to give it in the glutes. And I don't trust my husband to touch me with a needle, so I just did them myself. Um, and it worked totally fine. And I felt very lucky. A lot of people have trouble with a lot of soreness, a lot of pain in the area. A of lot. It can inc. It can inhibit your ability to, like, walk normally and use your. Your glutes normally. Doing it in. In the glutes. And my. My clinic gave really great ideas for how to make it better with using heating pads and warming up the solution and all the things. So I followed all of their recommendations and using a massage gun after to spread the medication around instead of getting, like, clumped out to up. Oh, spoiler. It still gets clumped up, but it definitely helps. And then they said that I was going that I would likely benefit because I have an active job and because I have an active lifestyle that it helps when you're using the muscle. Yeah, it kind of like breaks up. How? The solution is sitting in the muscle.
- [34:51]
A
Like getting a flu shot in your shoulder.
- [34:52]
B
Yes. And you don't want to move it, but it's, like, the best thing that you can do for it.
- [34:55]
A
Yeah.
- [34:56]
B
So started those a week before the transfer and had the transfer on Tuesday, July 16th. And we let the clinic just. You have the option to pick the embryo that you want at that point, but we just let the clinic pick. So they picked, like, the genetic the one that was, like, ranked the highest. Although when they're genetically normal, statistically, they have the same likelihood of success, so they just picked the one for us. And I, funny enough, I had what we think was norovirus that day. I woke up feeling just very unwell, having to use the bathroom. And I thought I was like. I gaslit myself and being like, oh, it's probably just nerves. And maybe I'm just nervous about this process. Even though I knew I wasn't nervous. And then I was able to kind of pull it together. And you have to drink a bunch of water before your transfer so they have a better visual. And it was making me nauseous just drinking the water. And I was like, okay, I'm just gonna keep trying. And. And then we did the transfer, and I got home, and I was, like, violently ill. Like, felt. I've never been that ill in my entire life, and I've had food poisoning many times. I've had all kinds of different bugs, but this was next level. And I actually remember thinking. I was like. Like, there's no way this is gonna stick. Like, because I felt so violently ill. Yeah. Like, it's like, there's no. There's just no way. I'm, like. I feel like I'm at the edge of my life. So.
- [36:31]
A
Yeah.
- [36:31]
B
But that's just a funny side note.
- [36:33]
A
Yeah. Do you think that had anything. Well, okay, so then.
- [36:38]
B
So that's. So this was at the end of July. And then how my clinic does it. Every clinic's different, but on day eight, after the transfer, you go in for your first beta HCG test to see if my clinic, I believe the number was, like, they wanted it 50 or above. Like, anything 50 or above was a positive sign. So I went in on day eight. I felt, like, directly after. After I recovered from the norovirus, I felt, like, very at peace. Not that I necessarily thought this for sure worked, but I felt very at peace and, like, didn't have a lot of anxiety. And people talk a lot about that waiting period being the hardest. And I truly think, because of the waiting period for my genetic results, the second round, no waiting period since then has felt like anything to me. Wow. I'm like, it's a. It's a week.
- [37:25]
A
Yeah.
- [37:26]
B
What's a week?
- [37:26]
A
So must have changed the chemistry of your brain in that time period.
- [37:29]
B
I know that I did because I am typically a pretty. Or. I used to be a pretty impatient person, and I. It felt like nothing. I was like, oh, no. It was business as usual.
- [37:38]
A
Yeah.
- [37:39]
B
And luckily with controlled transfers too, there's not as much of a restriction around exercise. That's another good, another reason why controlled was good for my situation. So I just pre recorded, I think, one or two classes.
- [37:51]
A
Yeah.
- [37:51]
B
For that time period. So just for like the week after the transfer. But so I go on day eight, I get my blood drawn and they tell me if it's 50 or over, that's a great sign. And they called later that day and it was so I was pregnant. And that's what that means. Like, okay, you got a positive result, you're pregnant. And my clinic checks again two days later. So on day 10, and at that point you're on that on day eight, I believe you're three weeks and six days pregnant. Based on like how it works with when the embryos are retreat or the eggs are retrieved and all that.
- [38:24]
A
It's like different than a natural pregnancy.
- [38:27]
B
Yeah.
- [38:27]
A
Because it's like faster along.
- [38:29]
B
Right. So it's interesting because with a, with a regular pregnancy, when you take your pregnancy test, you're for technically likely about four weeks pregnant when you get your positive, like at the start of your missed period because it's based on the date of your last period. So it actually is about the same, but you just know. So like, like, you know, so early. And it's, it's an interesting psychological thing too. So went on day eight, all good. Went on day 10 and again just felt really good. And my sister actually surprised me the night before and came in town with her baby to be there whether it was good or bad news. And my levels had skyrocketed. Like they looked great in a good way, which is what you want. You want them to. They say like to about double each 48 hours or I think is the protocol. And so from there all it was like, okay, things are looking great. And then they have you come in two weeks later for a transvaginal ultrasound because it's too early to see with a regular, you know, over the belly ultrasound. And so I went in, went in a little less than two weeks later because I was traveling and they wanted to check for the placement before I got on a plane. And they looked and they're like, okay, here it is. It was measuring at the right, right size and. But it was still too early to see a heartbeat. They're like, well, we could probably see it in the next couple days. So they had me come back a week later and when I went back, they, I could tell the second that they put the ultrasound in that she Wasn't seeing what she wanted to see. So at that point, it hadn't grown as much. They. They measure. They can tell the. How far along the pregnancy is by measuring the embryo or measuring the. I guess it's still called an embryo at that point. I don't necessarily know. But they were measuring the. The length of it inside of me, and it had only grown by, like, three days, and it had been a week and a half. So they're like, okay, that's not. That's not great. But they were actually able to find a heartbeat. This was week seven, and they saw heartbeat. So we're like, okay, that's positive. But my doctor was really great. She. I could cry talking about her, but she really set the expectations appropriately for me of this can be nothing or this can be an indication that something is awry.
- [40:48]
A
Right.
- [40:49]
B
And I've seen it go both ways. So we're gonna have you come in in a week, and we'll check again. But just want. You want to have that expectation set appropriately. So I'm like, okay. And I tried to have as positive of an outlook on it as I could. I tried to. I did a lot of meditation during that time period, trying to, like, send whatever positive energy I could towards the situation. So I didn't just go down the rabbit hole of this, for sure didn't work, because we didn't know it really could have been either way. So then I go back in the next Friday at eight weeks, and she put the transactional ultrasound in, and then almost immediately took it out and had me sit up. And. And Tommy was there for this one. My husband was there for this one. And she said, okay, we're definitely not seeing what we want to see. There's no longer a heartbeat. And the. It. It hasn't grown at all.
- [41:46]
A
Yeah.
- [41:47]
B
So. And she. I remember. I'll. I'll never forget it. You know, I tr. I'm like, I never want to, like, lose it in front of people that I respect or care about. Like, that includes here at work, obviously.
- [42:01]
A
And.
- [42:01]
B
And I remember I'm like, just hold it together. Just hold it together. And I couldn't. So I'm just, like, trying to hold it in, which was just, like, trying to stifle the cries even more. And she just looked at me and said, basically, this sucks. Like, this sucks. This is not common. This is not what we would expect at this point, especially after already seeing a heartbeat and where we are. But it happens. And. And just because we have the ability to genetically test embryos and they come up as genetically normal. That doesn't guarantee that they're going to develop normally. And it just is part of the 65 or the 35% chance that it, your first transfer doesn't work.
- [42:45]
A
Yeah.
- [42:46]
B
It unfortunately gets lumped into that even though you've carried it for at this point, four weeks. And so from there we she. That day was like stop all at, at this point I was still doing, taking my oral estrogen and doing my progesterone injections every single day. I had done eight total weeks of injections. I was two weeks away from being done with my injections. And she's like stop, stop everything. And then you should miscarry within this next week. Yeah, that was the next, the next part of it.
- [43:17]
A
Yeah. When you got that news, how did that differ from your first miscarriage?
- [43:25]
B
Yeah, that's a really good question. With my first, it was before I had an inkling with my first one over a year ago that something was awry with my fertility. But I was so I was not as far along. First of all, I had only known for two weeks with the first one and the process to miscarry, that was so different. Now news wise it's interesting. It was like it was hard the first time and the second time maybe I had a little bit more preparation because I had been through it before. But it felt maybe a little heavier because there were so many positive signs leading up to it. Like it was pretty rare that it happened at that phase. Like normally or a lot of times people just the transfer fails. It doesn't work at all. Like when you go for that day eight beta hcg, there's nothing there.
- [44:24]
A
Yeah.
- [44:25]
B
Or on the, on two days later it hasn't grown enough. So it's it that happens a lot. It's very common. And then you, you release the embryo just like with a, basically a heavy period. Yeah, I, I think just the weight of everything really hit me that day of I have just been through so much like all the, especially all the progesterone injections leading up to this point. Like and it felt very much so like this was all for nothing.
- [44:59]
A
Yeah.
- [45:00]
B
And I had, you know, I'd been teaching throughout all of this and, and already I had been having symptoms. Not horrible, thank goodness. It wasn't, wasn't bad for me at all but couldn't really eat normally. I was definitely seeing like body changes and it was like yet again we were almost to the point where we could tell everyone and we hoped to have a podcast about like Announcing it. And it was like, yet again, I am so close, and yet it's all just gone.
- [45:30]
A
Yeah. Yeah. I think watching you go through both of them. Yeah, it seemed like the second one to me. It seemed like maybe by the time it happened the second time, you were almost like a little bit more emotionally numb in a way.
- [45:47]
B
That's a good way to put it.
- [45:49]
A
I feel like I've watched you go through this, and on one hand I'm like, you've gotten so strong and resilient, and it's incredible to watch. And then on the other hand, I feel like you've learned how to protect yourself almost because of all of these crazy up and ups and downs that you've had to go through.
- [46:07]
B
That's a really good way to put it. And I think I could anticipate or foresee that each time it almost blunts the happy parts of it, for lack of a better way to say it. Just being honest of it's going to be. I know that it'll be harder in the future if we get positive results. You know, with those first few steps, I'm not going to be able to just out of sheer protection and that. I'm not going to be able to let myself go to the place that I went with this one. Because once I made it past those points, I'm like, oh, statistically, we're. We're rocking and rolling at this point. And then it wasn't.
- [46:44]
A
Yeah. You felt like you were in the clear almost.
- [46:47]
B
It's so. Because it's so different than a regular pregnancy where you don't know what. What sperm and what egg have combined and what, like, once you've. You've gotten the positive pregnancy test and then it's growing like. Like, that's a pretty dang good sign. Yeah. Like, it's. It's more likely to succeed than just if you're in the wild with the, you know, the. Whatever the percentages are there.
- [47:11]
A
Yeah.
- [47:11]
B
So, yeah, it certainly has, I think, blunted the. The highs and the lows. It's an interesting thing.
- [47:20]
A
I feel like with the next one, it might take you a while to fully, like, feel like, okay, I'm excited about this.
- [47:29]
B
Yeah. Yeah. I have a friend who. She didn't. She didn't have to end up going through ivf, but had a lot of losses and went through some pretty traumatic things. And she was like, I never. I never really wanted to even say out loud that I was pregnant. She didn't want a baby shower. She didn't. And I can so relate to. I can. I can so understand how she got to that place.
- [47:52]
A
Yeah. Yeah, totally.
- [47:53]
B
Because it's like until that baby is out and in the world, it feels. It feels very scary. Once you've been through all of these. All of these things.
- [48:03]
A
Yeah, totally. Totally. So what. Throughout this whole process, and I want to get to, like, what your plan is for the future, but what do you feel like? I know you've had some friends that have gone through this, or just like you learning yourself and calling on your own wisdom, which you just have so much of. What do you feel like has been the most helpful for you?
- [48:28]
B
I think for me, what it's been is. It's really being able to be present in each moment. So I've tried really hard to not dwell in the past of. And I will try really hard in the future to not dwell on the past, despite our. The conversation we just had. But I think for me, it's been this sense of really. The sense of knowing that everything will be okay regardless of the outcome. Yeah. So that it is very possible that that outcome could be me not having a. A child of my. A biological child. But I know that even if that happens, that will be okay. It's like this. I think each little phase that I've gone through because everyone. Every. People have had it way harder than me, that is for sure. But people. The people in my life who've gone through IVF have. Have had a little bit of a smoother process, I would say. But I think that maybe I was supposed to go through it in the way that I have gone through it because I needed to build my resiliency muscle because I could benefit from. From becoming more resilient in all areas of my life. And it has really allowed me, I would say, I think I was telling you this maybe in New York, that I feel just so different overall as a person that minor inconveniences that maybe would have completely ruined my day before or thrown me off course or whatever it is. They really just feel like nothing to me. Wow. For lack of a. Like, it's. It's like this weird sense of okay, that's. I feel like that's how I've had to get through all of this. Is. Everything that has happened is with the. With stopping the medication at eight weeks. I ended up carrying to almost 12 weeks and not miscarrying till then. And it was the same thing of like, okay, my body is just holding onto this. I do not know why. I do not understand. But It's. It's like this weird sense of okayness.
- [50:52]
A
Yeah.
- [50:52]
B
Does that make sense?
- [50:53]
A
And. And I remember being very surprised about that when I saw you kind of going through it after you had the news and just like, checking in on you and you just being like, I'm honest. I'm okay.
- [51:04]
B
Like, yeah.
- [51:04]
A
Being like, I just. This peace. And I don't know if it's like, peace or acceptance or.
- [51:10]
B
Or both.
- [51:11]
A
Like, I. I hope that it's not, like, feeling numb or any of that, but just knowing you, I feel like it's just like you've gotten to this emotionally just really stable place where you're like, I. It is what it is. And also, you're confident that you've taken care of yourself as best as you can. You've done everything that you possibly could. You've listened to your doctor's advice, and you've done all the right steps, and it's a little bit out of your control.
- [51:37]
B
Yeah, no, I. I have this really sure sense that I don't. Like I said earlier, I don't have any regrets about this process.
- [51:47]
A
Yeah.
- [51:48]
B
Thus far. And. And I think that that's really helpful for me is I've never. I've been really sure in my decisions leading up to this point, and even though I'm not at the desired outcome yet, and I might not ever be at the desired outcome, and I feel like I've just been able to feel really secure and really sure that I will be okay and my husband and I will be okay no matter what happens.
- [52:15]
A
Which I think if someone's listening to this. We've had this conversation a lot. A lot of times people are talking about their fertility journey with the outcome of having a baby already, and they Reflecting back on their past. And you were saying, it's really important for me to have this conversation before I have that outcome so that people that are in the middle of it. Can you hopefully be inspired by you and seeing the peace that you have, even though you don't have that outcome yet?
- [52:43]
B
Yeah. I honestly feel like this is in some weird way, like my life's mission or something. For. Not to sound dramatic, but I feel very strong, and I. It's also okay if you don't feel very strong. And I've certainly had different places in this whole process where I haven't felt as strong, but I want to be able to show up for people and to stand in this and to say, I'm going through this right now and I don't have a baby in My arms. Because it just, or in my, in my belly. Because I do think it's, I could see that it would be really easy to get to that next phase and then talk about this in almost this like rose colored glasses.
- [53:28]
A
Yeah.
- [53:28]
B
Situation. And I don't want to do that. I want to be able to show that I do feel this way now before the desired outcome. And I believe that everyone can. I believe that. And not to say that it's easy or that if you're feeling a different way that that's wrong or bad. Certainly not. But I want to be able to inspire people, for lack of a better word. I don't think sometimes when you say inspire, not that I think I'm better than anyone or anything like that, but I want to be able to show up for people and show that like you can have a positive experience even before you have the desired outcome or even going through really hard parts in this journey.
- [54:07]
A
Yeah. I think you sharing this might make people feel less alone if they're in the same place as you.
- [54:12]
B
That's my hope.
- [54:13]
A
So I think it's very, very beautiful and incredible that you're sharing so openly. So what next? What are the next. You're kind of in this waiting period now, right?
- [54:27]
B
Yeah.
- [54:27]
A
What happens next?
- [54:28]
B
Yeah. So because I carried for so long, so even though the embryo or the FET wasn't growing, my body still thought it was pregnant. And so it continued to, you know, my HCG levels stayed elevated, all the things. So once I finally miscarried on my own and they checked to ensure that I didn't have anything left over that they needed to like go in and clear out or anything like that. They've then been monitoring. That happened at the end of September. So they've since been monitoring my HCG levels and I can't start birth control, which again is the start of the process for the transfer. I can't start that until the start of a cycle, after which I've gotten a zero on that HCG level to make sure that I, I, I think that it's because they don't want you to start birth control while you're still elevated. So it doesn't impact your, your cycle.
- [55:23]
A
Yeah.
- [55:23]
B
Going forward.
- [55:24]
A
Yeah.
- [55:24]
B
So at a normal cycle, just a few weeks ago, but at that point they did my HCG reading and it was still not at zero. So the hope is that they'll recheck my HCG level on Friday. So the day that this episode comes out and the hope is that it will be at zero then so then when I have another cycle in a couple weeks, I'll get to start birth control at that cycle and start the prep work for my next transfer. But it's very likely that that transfer won't be until January or February because of this timing. And my doctor, again with expectation setting at my. At my appointment that I had before I would. They were monitoring my HCG levels. She said, I want you to think of the rest of this year as healing. And that's been really big for me. I. That's. I think that has allowed me to just let go of this expectation of it's going to happen quickly or this. This sadness of, well, if it just wouldn't have worked in the first place, I already would have had another transfer by now because that happened to one of my friends. It didn't work with her, and that was in December, and then she had another transfer by the end of January.
- [56:29]
A
Yeah.
- [56:29]
B
But for some reason, I had to go through this process. And honestly, this waiting period has been really, I think, really big for me. One, in being able to process my emotions. Two, to be able to kind of separate. Separate and peel myself away from the process for a minute, give myself just a mental break.
- [56:49]
A
Yeah.
- [56:50]
B
Yeah. And that's one of the things when looking back at the process that I mentioned earlier, that going directly from my second retrieval into a transfer, like, maybe if I were doing it differently in. In a different life, I would have taken a little bit more time to let just my body and my emotions and my hormones kind of settle a little bit.
- [57:10]
A
Yeah.
- [57:10]
B
When you're going through this process, every week, every month, every cycle feels like a lifetime. Yeah. Especially when you've been going through, you know, this has been years now in the journey overall of. Of this fertility journey. But now that I'm having this almost forced break of a few months, it's like, it's okay. It's just gonna happen when it happens.
- [57:33]
A
Yeah. And kind of like ending this year just like putting this year behind you, which I know has been personally hard for other reasons other than just your fertility. This has just been a tough year for you.
- [57:43]
B
Yeah.
- [57:44]
A
So maybe just like putting this year behind you a little bit, allowing I idea of just allowing yourself to heal for a second.
- [57:50]
B
Yeah. And. And it's felt that way for sure. Especially with getting back to my normal routines, not having pregnancy symptoms anymore, getting to feel like myself again and having. I've. I've really been focusing just as usual, but especially focusing on just building up my bank of muscle, knowing that in the future I'll be going through. Like, if I feel the way that I felt with this pregnancy, I will definitely be, you know, know, not able to eat what I normally eat and things like that. And so being able to build up that bank now in a really healthy and. And with. In a really healthy way and with a really good mindset around, it has been really nice to come back to.
- [58:28]
A
Yeah. Knowing that now that the listener is going to hear this in a couple of days and you are going through this next transfer in a couple of months. Few months. Where at whatever timeframe that might be, how would you. How do you want people to approach this conversation with you? Or is it one of those things where you just kind of want your own space and you'll come when you're ready to talk about what's happening next or what's the best way for members or the audience to kind of connect with you on this or not?
- [59:01]
B
I really like that question. I do feel like an open book. So if I can be a resource for someone or just a friend, honestly through. Through the Internet, I am happy to hold that space for people and to share more about my experiences. If people have individual questions, so they can. They can definitely message me on Instagram. We can put my. My handle below or email. You can email our. Our contact at Flow Fitness. I know I've gotten to talk to a few people there that I've shared this with even before this, that have shared their own journeys and looking for a little bit of support. So I would love to be. Be a support. I think that's helpful for me and it gives me a lot of purpose and so I'd be happy to do that. And. And I anticipate. And I can feel differently when I'm going through it, but I anticipate that I will talk about this more in my classes when I'm going through the prep for the next transfer and once I've gone through the transfer so that it's a little bit more in real time. And that is very vulnerable, obviously, because we won't know. Be able to know the outcome.
- [60:05]
A
Yeah.
- [60:05]
B
But it'll also feel a little bit more authentic to me and who I am and my personality. Now that everyone knows, now that you've gotten the full backstory, I feel a lot more confident sharing in real time going forward.
- [60:16]
A
Yeah. Because that is your personality. You are. You are an open book to your friends and people that you love. And so do feeling like you can be yourself on camera a little bit and like you're not hiding something might feel kind of nice.
- [60:29]
B
Nice.
- [60:29]
A
Right.
- [60:29]
B
Because we like to talk about what's going on in our lives and things like that. And that's. It's not like something that has limited me and my ability to do that in classes because it's like this. It's this huge thing that I haven't been able to talk about or share about.
- [60:43]
A
So it's like the main thing.
- [60:44]
B
Yeah. It's a big one.
- [60:45]
A
Yeah.
- [60:45]
B
Yeah.
- [60:46]
A
Well, thank you for sharing all of this. I think your story is really important for people to hear, and I know the pain that you've been through, and. And for you to be able to come on and talk about this in such a poised, helpful way, I think is absolutely incredible. So thank you, Pete.
- [61:04]
B
Well, thanks. And thank you for holding such great space for me all throughout this process, even when you were in the throes of being postpartum. I think that's a good note to end on, too, is if people are going through this, finding people in your life that you love and trust, because it's very normal to not feel like you want to share this with thousands of people. Yeah. But finding people, whether it's your partner or a coworker or a friend or all of the above, like, that is what has really gotten me through all this, is Shannon has held and Jill have both held such a space for me to be able to show up as myself. So I feel like I've been able to be really authentic in my real life, which I think is really important. So I hope that people are as lucky as I am to have someone like you.
- [61:55]
A
Yeah. That's so sweet. That's so sweet. Well, thank you, P. Yeah. And we'll. We'll make sure to. If you're open to it, we'll give another update maybe next year sometime. I feel like just knowing you, you're going to want to give an update kind of no matter what happens.
- [62:09]
B
Yep.
- [62:10]
A
So maybe the listener can expect that. If you're open to that.
- [62:12]
B
I would love that. That'd be great.
- [62:13]
A
All right. Thank you all listeners. We'll see you next week, same time, same place. Bye.
- [62:17]
B
Bye.