Draft Show: How to Build a Board

Summary

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The Draft Show: "How to Build a Board"

Date: January 15, 2026
Hosts: Kyle Yeomans, Voch Lombardi, Nick Harris, Tommy Yarish
Location: SWBC Studio, The Star in Frisco

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Episode Overview

This episode dives into the process of building an NFL draft board as the 2025 draft approaches. The panel discusses strategies for evaluating prospects, updates on key events like the Senior Bowl and the Shrine Bowl, debates around Dallas Cowboys’ draft needs and scenarios, and personal favorite prospects ("pet cats"). The conversation offers inside perspectives on evaluation methods, position value, draft-process nuance, and lots of Cowboys-specific analysis, all in the panel’s familiar energetic, humorous style.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Countdown to the Draft & All-Star Games

• Senior Bowl and Shrine Bowl:
  Hosts share their excitement for hands-on evaluations coming up at the Senior Bowl (Mobile, Alabama) and Shrine Bowl (held at The Star). Highlighted is the increased quality of talent at both games this year, particularly at linebacker and tight end.
  • Voch: “I really love about the Senior Bowl is…there’s a bunch of top 100 type guys in there competing... I need to figure this out, y’all versus y’all.” (02:00)
  • Nick: “The linebacker class for the Shrine Bowl is really, really strong.” (04:33)

2. Early 2025 Mock Draft Reactions & Cowboys Scenarios

• Dane Brugler’s Mock Draft Highlights:

  • Discussion on the top players by position, surprising early selections (e.g., tackles Monroe Freeling & Spencer Fano), and Dallas’s picks at 12 and 20.
  • Cowboys’ options at 12 included Sonny Styles (LB, Ohio State) or Mansoor Delane (CB, LSU).
    • Voch: “Would you guys rather have gone cornerback Mansour Delane from LSU than Sonny Styles?” (07:03)
    • The table splits: some prefer Styles’ upside and communication, others like Delane’s immediate impact and smarts.

• Debate: Styles vs. Delane at 12th pick:

  • Voch (pro-Delane): “I think Delane in the long run can help you quicker now…he’s an everything guy. I like the versatility there.” (07:16)
  • Kyle and Tommy (pro-Styles): “But if you’re going to find a guy for the middle of your defense for the future that can do everything, I think Styles is your guy.” (12:37)
  • Notable exchange:
    • Voch: “I want Fred Warner coming..., Miles Jack coming out of UCLA was everything I wanted in a linebacker... If you give me a Miles Jack type guy... then you can talk me into a linebacker at 12. I don't think Sonny does all those things.” (08:13)
    • Tommy: “When’s the last time you had a communicative linebacker that isn’t a medical red flag?” (14:54)

• Position Value & Roster Construction:

  • Is it easier for Dallas to patch linebacker or cornerback in free agency?
  • Impact of injuries on evaluating draft prospects—especially at corner.

3. How to Build a Draft Board: Insider Methods

Starts at [22:11]

• Nick Harris:

  • Starts with “known” players with one year of eligibility; color-codes probable underclassmen declares as the season progresses.
  • “Stacking” (ranking) isn’t firm until after the combine: “This is a data acquiring time.” (22:11)

• Voch Lombardi:

  • Focus on film, minimizes outside data to avoid bias: “I don’t wanna know what high school you went to... I just wanna watch the film.” (23:40)
  • Initial ranking is by position, then blends position groups later (“Jordan Tyler WR vs. Ruben Bane EDGE…”).
  • Relies on memory, less on notes.

• Kyle Yeomans:

  • Broad tracking: huge spreadsheet by position, cross-references several websites, notes on all watched players.
  • Ensures at least basic knowledge even of late-round guys.

• Tommy Yarish:

  • Blends film study, in-season observations, and notes.
  • Places extra value on Senior Bowl/Shrine Bowl, Combine; likes to see measurables, position variety among prospects.

• Kyle: “There’s no right or wrong way. Everyone is gonna have their own opinion....that’s what’s so beautiful about this process.” (28:17)

4. Special Teams Value & Day 3 Gems (29:10)

• Dallas’s special teams struggled; discussion of targeting special teams aces in late rounds.
• Notable names mentioned:
  • Nick: “Josh Cameron out of Baylor…walk on to captain, core special teamer…would be a home run Day 3 pick.” (30:28)
  • D’Angelo Pons (CB, Indiana) as both a defensive and special teams contributor—even if undersized.

5. Running Back Value: Jeremiah Love at 12 or 20? (32:14)

• Weighing need vs. positional value; panel skeptical of spending top-12 pick on a back but open to it at 20—contingent on free agency and board wipeouts.
• Voch: “It’ll be incredibly irresponsible at 12...But if he make it to 20, we can talk though.” (33:44)
• Other RBs: Jadarian Price (Notre Dame), Penn State’s duo.

6. Player Trades for Draft Picks? (37:24)

• No realistic Cowboys currently worth trading to regain a 2nd rounder; core players are needed for their push.

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National Championship Prospects / All-Star Game Watchlist

Starts at [43:08]

Miami (FL)

• Mark Fletcher (RB): Fast riser; top Day 3/early Day 2 potential.
• C.J. Daniels (WR): Liberty/LSU transfer; productive, interesting study.
• Mesador (EDGE): Old prospect (will be 25); question is whether he can show full potential as a rookie.
• Keontae Scott (CB/NB, possibly S): Standout playoff run; debated best fit as safety or nickel. Senior Bowl invite.

Indiana

• Fernando Mendoza (QB): Expected #1 overall pick by Vegas; highly efficient playoff performance.
• Pat Coogan (C): Rose Bowl MVP; heart of Indiana’s O-line.
• Aiden Fisher (LB): Tackling machine; potential contributor/special teamer Day 3.
• D’Angelo Pons (CB): Undersized but fearless, plays bigger; special teams plus.

Sleeper/“Pet Cat” Prospects

• Elijah Surratt (WR, Indiana):

  • Voch: “If I could just time machine project who’s gonna be real good in the league... I think Elijah Surratt is Keenan Allen...he’s gonna outplay where he gets drafted.” (48:04)

• Kieran Crawford (EDGE, Auburn):

  • Tommy: “He’s everywhere, super quick, extremely powerful, great build...I think this kid can play.” (50:25)

• Davison Igbinosun (CB, Ohio State): Physical, aggressive; improved discipline, long arms.

• Safety Class:

  • Tommy: “I just love this safety class…”
  • A.J. Halsey (LSU), Bray Hubbard (Alabama), Dylan Thiemann (Oregon) all noted.

• Dominique “Big Orange” Orange (DT, Iowa State): Run stuffer; must-watch vs. Kansas State (Week 0).

• Chris Brazell II (WR, Tennessee): Midland product, productive after transferring from Tulane.

• Eli Heidenreich (Navy, RB/WR):

  • Kyle: “Does a little bit of everything…block, receive, run routes, line up in backfield…the reason that offense worked.” (54:00)

• Kaden Proctor (OL): Long, powerful; inconsistent but massive upside seen in past tape.

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Evaluating the Unknown:
  • Voch: “The cool thing about this thing…these people that we don’t know, that we learn.” (03:13)
• On Positional Scarcity:
  • Voch: “As far as Sonny [Styles] goes…to be taking linebacker 12th overall, I want a Fred Warner type guy.” (07:16)
• On Building Your Board:
  • Nick: “This is a data acquiring time.” (22:11)
  • Voch: “I just like to kick it and tell y’all what I saw in the player.” (24:53)
• On Pet Cats:
  • Voch (on Elijah Surratt): “If I was working for the Cowboys and they say, Voch, you can irresponsibly overdraft somebody at your 20th overall team, it would be Elijah Surratt.” (49:16)
• On Age in Prospects:
  • Voch: “Get old, stay old. I love the old...they probably got a little more experience, a little more nuanced.” (58:57)

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Important Segment Timestamps

• Senior Bowl/Shrine Bowl Preview: 01:32–05:00
• Mock Draft Discussion (Cowboys focus): 05:28–11:12
• Linebacker vs. Cornerback Debate: 11:16–16:00
• Draft Board Building Strategies: 22:11–28:17
• Special Teams/Sleeper Picks: 29:10–32:14
• Running Back Value (Jeremiah Love): 32:14–36:35
• National Championship Prospects/All-Star Watchlist: 43:08–49:43
• Pet Cats Roundtable: 49:43–57:49

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Podcast Panel’s Tone & Style

• Lively, playful banter: Frequent jokes and asides (e.g., Dr. “HellaTrash” for NFL team doctor, playful scuffles re: prospect names and methods).
• Cowboys-focused but draft-nutty: Obsessed with positional fits and deep prospect profiles; conversations jump from “big board” theory to anecdote and back swiftly.
• Informative, open to disagreement: Debates welcome; hosts comfortable sharing different processes and interpretations.

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Summary for the Uninitiated

This episode is a treasure trove for draft fans who want to understand the how and why of constructing an NFL draft board—from different methods (film-first, data/stat-leaning, broad touch, position stacks) to debates about positional value and favorite prospects. It also gives Cowboys fans a grounded, insider perspective on how the team could approach its key picks, which positions have more value in this class, and introduces a robust group of sleeper prospects that could come up in key All-Star showings. The panel’s humor, camaraderie, and willingness to disagree respectfully makes the complex process accessible—and fun.

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If you want to know how draft insiders think, which prospects are making noise, or how the Cowboys’ draft priorities might play out, this episode is a must-listen.

Transcript

[A]

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[B]

Your war room for insider news and draft analysis from deep within the confines.

[A]

Of Cowboys headquarters at the Star and Frisco.

[B]

Now, your hosts, Vach Lombardi, Nick Harris.

[A]

Bobby Belt, Tommy Yarish, and Kyle Yeomans. Today is Thursday, January 15th, and we are 98 days away from the NFL Draft in Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania. Welcome in to the Draft show presented by Miller Lite live from the SWBC studio at the Star in Frisco with Fotch Lombardi, Nick Harris, Tommy Yarish, Chris Beam in the back. I'm Kyle Yeomans. Missing Bobby Belt again today. Hoping to see Bobby back next week. And then we will the week after that be at the Senior bowl down in Mobile, Alabama.

[C]

Already here, baby. 14 weeks from today.

[A]

14 weeks from today. I hate that. That's coming up way too quickly.

[B]

It's all right.

[C]

We got time.

[D]

I was gonna say. I like that you like that. Yeah, we were just. Nick and I were. Cousin before the. All right. We're just talking about the Senior bowl before the show. It's gonna be a lot of fun.

[A]

I'm excited for the Senior Bowl. That's gonna be a blast. Shrine game here at the Star and Frisco practices, all the way up until that as well. So we just got our credentials back for that. So we'll be on the. On the field watching some of these prospects for basically a week straight. So that'll be fun to do.

[B]

What's up, Vatch, man? Kicking it, man. Just listening to Yalls commentary, man. Cause y' all the best in the world to do it. You know what I really love about the Senior bowl is, like, there's a bunch of, like, top 100 type guys in there competing. I go, yeah, I need to figure this out, y' all versus y'. All. Boy, Shrine Bowl. It'd be a whole bunch of people I ain't never seen before, you know what I'm saying? But no disrespect to them names that.

[A]

Weren'T even on the list yet.

[B]

I just get to learn more people, you know what I'm saying? Because we all do this thing. We gotta study about 200 some odd. So now when we for example, Arandae Gaston last year, right, Shrine bowl got me and Woolchuck was out there. He tore it up at the Shrine bowl, you know what I'm saying? I was like, hey man, I don't know where round Gaston go, but I like him. He a fool, he the best player here. And then he goes to the Chargers and just start whooping feet, man. So I think that's part of the process. These guys that we don't know. I'm no expert right now. By the time I get to April, I'mma had this locked in. For example, Dane Brugler just dropped a mock today. He had a first round pick, Monroe Freeling from Georgia, a tackle. I don't know who the hell that is. I don't have a clue to him.

[C]

He entered the draft early when people didn't think he maybe would. But he's also, he's a benefactor of a light tackle class. I think that's more so projection. But I'm with Dane there. Cause like I think if you talk to most scouts you'd be like, yeah, that's probably a second round guy most years. But I think he sneaks into the back first. That's why I'm giving you credit here.

[B]

I don't know who, nah, I don't want the credit. Give the Dane, I don't need it. But whoever Munroe Freeling is, I'm gonna watch him and I'm gonna come back Monday or Tuesday be like, hey y', all, I watched Monroe Freeling, he beat the hell out of everybody over there. So that's the cool thing about this thing. These people that we don't know, that we learn.

[C]

Going to give you one name you have to learn at the Shrine bowl. Four for four, Dante Corleone. Just because it's a fun name.

[B]

Cincinnati.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

Was he supposed to come out last year? Yeah, that's the only reason I know, okay. That's the only reason I know, okay. But these brand new, I never heard of you cats all. Good luck to you.

[A]

I don't know. There are a couple guys at the Shrine Game. I was really impressed with the roster across the board. I think it's very comparable to what the Senior bowl is doing.

[C]

I agree.

[A]

This year you look at Torian York, the linebacker out of Texas A and M, he's arguably a top five to eight linebacker in this class and he's going to be at the Shrine Bowl. Couple of tight ends. I know a tight end out of Texas, Jack Injuries, who I liked a lot watching him injure in.

[B]

In.

[A]

In.

[B]

D. Like her.

[D]

It's not her. He's good. Yeah.

[C]

Injuries.

[B]

Inj.

[A]

Oh, like I don't know how to say it.

[B]

Jack. Injuries is crazy of a name, but they ain't his name. It's not.

[A]

Yeah, not in J. It is E, N, D. INJ Say that.

[B]

No, please, go ahead.

[A]

He's a tight end. Top. Probably a top tight end, draft pick type guy in this class. A couple other names. Anybody that sticks out for you, Nick.

[C]

When you look at it, Harold Perkins and staying at the linebacker position, Jack. Goldie Perkins out of. Goldie out of Cincinnati, Perkins out of LSU. Yeah, there's some really good names on this list. D.J. campbell out of Texas was another. Lander Barton, another good linebacker. The linebacker class for the Shrine bowl is really, really strong. But yeah, there's some, there's some really intriguing names up and down here.

[A]

And then you look at the quarterbacks too, for both sides. You got Kate Clubnik, Clemson, who's probably the top rated guy at least in my eyes, out of the. The guys that are accepted to either one of those all star games. Because then it's Diego Pavia for the Senior bowl out of Vanderbilt. Sawyer Robertson out of Baylor for the Senior Bowl. Haynes King, Georgia Tech, he's at the Shrine Bowl. There's a lot of back and forth there between those guys that'll be interesting to watch as time goes on. You mentioned that mock draft by Dane Brugler, friend of the show, original member of the draft show. Where did he have Dallas picking there?

[B]

So. Well, he had Dallas picking at 12 and 20, but who did he have picking there?

[A]

Sorry.

[D]

To be fair, you did say where.

[A]

I did say where. My bad.

[C]

He just answered question.

[D]

Did he do trade back or not?

[B]

No, no, no. So they're picking at 12 and 20. I'll just give you some highlights that I thought were interesting. Okay, so our Oregon quarterback, I don't watch quarterbacks at all. So I, you know what I'm saying? So he's not, he's not going to be draft guy. He' not going to be drafted back.

[C]

That's a shock at Oregon.

[D]

Back at Oregon, yeah.

[B]

Yeah. So if you're, if you're watching with, you know, cowboy eyes and ears right now. So that's like one less guy for us that gets pushed up the board a little bit. But Arvl Reese was his second overall guy, went to the Jets. All right, cool. Perfectly fine. I was surprised that Spencer Fano, the offensive tackle from Utah was third overall. I thought that was interesting. This makes sense. This makes sense. Wide receivers went kind of early. Francis Maoa. Maoa.

[C]

There you go.

[B]

Offense tackle from Miami. He went six overall. In Dane's mock. I was like, okay, this is interesting. You got wide receivers, you got offensive tackles going early. I thought we was going to lose a bunch of pass rushes early and I was going to be sick. But then you lose Bailey at seven to Washington. Cool. Jeremiah Love went eight. So if you're a Cowboy fan, you go, heck yeah. Take all this off. Let these defensive guys fall to me. Caleb Downs go nine to Kansas City when you would think that Kansas City would go wide receiver. So we lose him there, we lose Bane at 10 and Jermal McCoy went 11. Would you guys like to guess who The Cowboys went 12th over overall to? To the Cowboys.

[C]

I already looked here.

[D]

I was gonna say I looked as well, so.

[B]

Well, don't worry about it. Sonny Styles went to it overall.

[A]

I was about to say Styles would be my first guess.

[D]

Yeah, I would have. No, I don't think you should have any complaints about that.

[B]

Let me ask the table. Would you guys have rather have gone cornerback, Mansour Delaine from LSU than Sonny Styles?

[A]

I have Styles higher right now.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

I would take Styles.

[B]

Yeah. I'm taking Delane and I ain't fooling with nothing.

[C]

Really? Tell me why.

[B]

Because I think. I think Delaine in the long run can help you quicker now. And I think in the long run he'll be a much better like a much better player. Like a well rounded player. So we're in this point to where we're looking for, you know, for new coaches in Dallas, right? Hey, man, whether you a coach that like, man, if you a coach that like zone, if you're a coach that needs smart guys, take them. Now as far as how the. How the cornerback board is probably going to play out, it's a lot of guys down the board that I do like. But some of those dudes are man dudes or some of those dudes are zone guys. I think Delane is a both guy. I think he's an everything guy. I like the versatility there. As far as Sonny goes, man. Listen, man, to be taking linebacker 12th overall, I want a Fred Warner type guy. I don't think he's one of those type dudes and just the type of scout that I am. I don't look for upside as much as some other people do in that way. I want to see what you are now. I'm more of A high floor guy. Now, I love.

[A]

Wouldn't wanting a Fred Warner type guy be looking for upside in a linebacker?

[B]

Not Fred Warner coming out of college. Okay. I want Fred Warner coming. So, for example, so my favorite linebacker prospect of all time, Miles Jack. Miles Jack coming out of ucla. Miles Jack the pro different. He got hurt, whatever. But Miles Jack coming out of UCLA was everything I wanted in a linebacker. And he played some running back. If you give me a Miles Jack type of guy that can cover. He was pass rushing, he was running around, he was sideline to sideline. He was doing everything, plays some offense, then you can talk me into a linebacker type guy at 12. I don't think Sonny does all those things.

[C]

I don't think that guy is.

[D]

I was just saying it sounds like.

[B]

You'Re describing Sonny style. I think Sonny could be. I think Sonny got upside, man. But I don't see that in Sonn. I. I see Sonny sometimes get caught up in these blocks. I. I see Sonny kind of get washed down in some of these run sit. I seen him overrun a little bit, but that's normal. He can work himself out of that. That's upside stuff. I like the what do you do now? Type situation and then I want to look at your upside. I just like Mansour better now and later than I like Sonny now and later, if that makes sense.

[A]

So with that being said, do you think it's easier for Dallas to fill their void because they have a void at both linebacker and corner? No doubt about it. And James and edge and save.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Everything but sticking to those two positions. If it's between those two guys at 12, is it easier to go find a veteran linebacker to fill your void at linebacker than it is to find a veteran corner? And you can draft vice versa in those two options. A lot of that's going to decide on what happens before the draft. We're going to get to April.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And it'll be right back there to it. But I'm looking at it as we've tried the linebacker veteran thing a couple of times. A couple of times it's been okay. Eric Hendricks wasn't bad here. But was he somebody that you wanted to bring back? Not necessarily. You saw what happened with Kenneth Murray this year. That didn't happen.

[B]

Sure. Corner.

[A]

What?

[C]

I'm joking.

[A]

Okay. You're continuing the bit.

[B]

The bit is happening.

[A]

You caught me off guard for a second. When you go back to corner, you haven't tried that veteran corner sure route yet. And grass isn't always greener. You never really know what's going to work out. And it's probably going to be a situation by situation basis. But if you're going to draft a corner 12 over a linebacker, who I think is that guy in Sonny Styles out of Ohio State, I think if you draft that guy and go find a veteran corner, I think I'd sign up for that all day.

[B]

Of these two guys and look, I don't hate that neither. But of these two guys, if you ask me, who's going to be better, right? Like, if we got this super bowl window in the next two or however many years, what guy's going to help you right this second? I would say Delaine is a better corner right now than Sonny is. And we can disagree. It's cool. Mansoor is a better corner right now than Sonny is a better linebacker. If you say, well, vouch, I think Sonny's going to be a better linebacker later than Mansoor will be a corner later, then fine, I'll take that. But just me as a GM scout, if somebody gonna tap me on the show to say vouch, who would you rather have? I would rather have Mansoor. And I just think Mansoor's smarter. I think. I think he's so smart.

[A]

Oh, he's super smart. I like Mansoor Delaine. Don't get me wrong.

[B]

We talking about 13 overall, right?

[A]

Exactly. We're talking about splitting hairs between two guys.

[B]

I think Mansoor, Delaine being so, like, there' commentary on social media, right? Talking about, well, you gotta have smart players to have this kind of coach to do xyz and that maybe these coaches don't like rookies. Cause they're not. I think. I think Delane is so smart right now and he's so athletic right now. He's so good at man and zone coverage right this second. I'll take that dude and then bank on him getting better. I think Sonny will be great. He could be Fred Warner in the future somewhere. I think he's a little more. I think there's a lot more room to grow with him than Mansoor right now.

[D]

That's why I would agree with that.

[B]

And like, no way you agree with that. You just fighting me a little. I like fights, by the way. I love fights, by the way. Please keep going.

[D]

I didn't even finish my sentence.

[B]

I'm sorry. You right.

[D]

No, you're right. But look, but we're talking about splitting hairs. I mean, right now, Sonny and Mansoor are one apart for me. Like, they're right next to each other. So are you really? Yeah, of course. There's a long way to go. But are you really. Are you mad either way? I don't think so. I think I would agree with you in that I think Mansour is a better corner right now than Styles is a better linebacker right now. But the traits that Styles has, and we're seeing more and more of these converted safeties that are moving to linebacker, super freak athletes at linebacker that could kind of give you everything in coverage and pass rush and playing the linebacker position. I don't know, man. A six, four, two, four, three. Like, if you're going to find a guy for the middle year, defense for the future that can do everything, I think Styles is your guy. And I'm not disagreeing that Delaney is not a great corner. I think he'd be awesome in Dallas. I think that he's the best corner in this draft right now. But I think Styles gives you a vet. He's somebody who's going to be a veteran presence and going to be around in your defense, is going to be a cornerstone of your defense for a long time.

[C]

And one thing that I think he could do day one is bring that communication element, whatever defense it is, I think he can shine in it. He showed that at Ohio State. He showed that when he played safety in high school. I love the versatility, I love the size, the freakish athleticism. I'm with you. I love some Monsoon Delane, but I would take Styles in that situation.

[B]

Let me ask all y' all this, because Cowboys got another pick at 20. How much room is it between Mansoor and your next corner and Sonny and your next linebacker?

[C]

That was a question I thought about bringing up. So, like, would you be okay if you don't get Mansoor there? You get, like, Brandon C. Say, out of South Carolina at 20? Or Avion Terrell at 20 out of Clemson, which I think is if. If I'm. If I'm hinting correctly at Dane Brugler's mock draft.

[B]

You cheater. You cheetah. So. So, look, I like Terrell. I like him a bunch. Tommy don't. I like Mansoor a lot more than Terrell.

[A]

Yeah, I do, too.

[B]

But if I look at these linebackers, C.J. allen, Anthony Hill versus Sonny, Sonny's the better guy. I wouldn't be hurt if I had those guys, though. Yeah.

[C]

You know, I love C.J. allen.

[A]

That's. It's a good point because you look at. Neither one of those guys are going to make it past you for sure. Let's say you're still you're picking between Sonny Styles and you're picking between Mansour Delaney. None of those guys are making it to 20. But if you're getting that 20 and you take Mansour Delane at 12, you get the top corner on your board, which he is at this point in time for me, I like Avion Terrell like you talked about, but man, having Mansour Delaine paired with a C.J. allen or somebody else at 20, wherever you want to go, pick your flavor of ice cream for pick 20 at linebacker, that's a one, two punch that can go a long way with your defense. So I get it. I understand the thought process. If we're talking about straight comparing tags and comparing players and impact now, I think I'm still leaning towards Sonny Styles because he does have the impact now and he does have the ability to fix an interior part of your defense with communication with athleticism. Plus, when's the last time you had a communicative linebacker that is somebody that hasn't had a medical red flag on it?

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

When have you not had a you better knock on significant guy?

[C]

He does pro day combine.

[A]

He's not ours yet. There's a long way to go. But when there's not a medical red flag on certain guys, a linebacker, I tend to kind of gravitate toward that too.

[B]

Tommy, corner to your next corner, linebacker to your next linebacker.

[D]

So the second guy I've got from Delane is Jermod McCoy, but he was gone in that scenario. So Brandon, CC for me, I love this guy. I think he's really good and I think he kind of fits the bill for what Dallas has liked at corner in the past. Taller, long arms. He doesn't have the the ball production. Like, he's not your typical ball hawk guy. He only has two career interceptions in college. But Brian Schottheimer talks a lot about, hey, I like corners who attack the triangle right when the receiver goes up for the ball. Corners that punched in that area and knocked the ball away, he does that. He's explosive, he's fast. Like I said, the frame is exceptional. Good trigger to the ball and change direction. I really like this guy. He flies around in the run game. He needs to wrap up better. Like he just sometimes just kind of throws himself at the play and sometimes it works and he gets the tackle. But he needs to rap better. Other than that though, he's going to be 20 years old on the day of the draft. I would be completely fine with him at 20 with Styles.

[C]

Yeah, I think with Jermond McCoy. Is it a bad case scenario? Granted, hopefully you see something out of him at combine pro day, and he. He participates in this process, should be healthy enough to do so. But is that a bad case scenario considering he's coming off torn acl. You already have Duron Bland coming off his second foot surgery. Savone Revel is still not 100% from his torn ACL at East Carolina.

[B]

Ye.

[C]

Even if you love the player, can you even justify taking him?

[B]

Force me to not pick him.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

Force me to not pick that scenario.

[C]

Where he goes 11 perfect.

[A]

Oh, yeah, that'd be nice.

[B]

Now. I think his film is better than Delane's, though.

[D]

Absolutely.

[A]

I Love Jordan the 24 film.

[B]

His film.

[A]

It's next level. It's really solid. We put out an article yesterday of the underclassmen that are declaring some guys to watch. You put CC on there. You put some of the linebackers. I wrote about C.J. allen and Terrell and McCoy. So those were my three guys. And man, just going back and reviewing that 24 tape. That's nasty.

[D]

But they can't afford it right now. I agree. Way too many.

[A]

They're just not in a spot to do it.

[D]

No, they have way too many.

[B]

But what if though, Tommy. Dr. Cooper did the surgery, didn't he? I'm just assuming he did. But Dr. Cooper. Because they.

[C]

Dr. Cooper.

[A]

I don't know if that's true or not.

[B]

He knew everybody. Damn. I don't know nothing.

[C]

It's either him or Neil. Ella Trash in Los Angeles.

[B]

Hella Trash. Helitrash is his name. I'm not getting my knee fixed by nobody named Helitrash.

[A]

We got injuries and we got Helitrash.

[B]

Are you crazy? That's his name. Helitrash.

[D]

What a medical psycho.

[C]

Trash.

[B]

Dr. Hella Trash is crazy, dude.

[C]

He did overshones. He did overshones.

[B]

I'm going to Dr. Cooper. Use your damn name. That's why Dr. Cooper fix everybody damn knees. Cause who the hell going to Hella Trash?

[C]

It's a good place for a break.

[A]

It is a good place for a break.

[B]

It's only 11:17. We got a lot of show left.

[A]

My own. My goal now is to get him on the show. Yeah, I want to get him on the show.

[C]

And I'm in Los Angeles.

[A]

Maybe would be a professional and not break.

[C]

He lives in Los Angeles. We'll get him to come down for camp.

[A]

Let's go. Come on. We could do zoom interviews.

[D]

Beam.

[A]

We're going to get on that real quick here. All right, well, step aside. We've got.

[B]

Where's the last name come from? Is it Irish?

[A]

Twitter on the 20 coming up here in a matter of moments. We got the tweet out there. If you want to go to my my ex, get out there and Send in your NFL Draft Twitter questions. More Twitter on the 20 More Draft show right after this. Life is a workout and Smoothie King is here to help you power through. Whether you're maxing out overhead presses, pushing through chest flies, or being the hero your golden retriever needs to carry them over that scary bridge, Smoothie King has the fuel to help you go all out, build muscle and boost your recovery with 45 grams of protein, 0 grams of added sugar, and delicious customizable ingredients in the gladiator smoothie. Available in chocolate, strawberry and vanilla only. At Smoothie King.

[D]

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[A]

This is the Dallas Cowboys.com draft show. Back here on the draft show presented by Miller Light the only beer of the Dallas Cowboys Cowboys nation. Tom Gibson has been named your 2025 Dallas Cowboys Fan of the Year. Presented by Captain Morgan for his dedication to the team and for spicing up the game. Vote for Tom to be named the ultimate NFL fan of the year at NFL.com FanOfTheYear back here on the draft show with Vach Lombardi, Nick Harris, Tommy Yarish, I'm Kyle Yeomans. Chris Beam is in the back and he's about to hit the sounder for some Twitter on the 20. That's exactly it. I like this question because it's still so early in the draft process, still 98 days away. We haven't seen the Senior bowl, we haven't seen the Shrine bowl, we haven't seen the combine. And there are a lot of individuals at home that follow along with our research, investigate, educate. That's the whole point of the show that Ed Cahill and Brian Broaddus and David Hellman Dame Brugler have helped carry on all the way through Legends. So this question comes from Jam and said how do you begin your boards? How do you start your draft process? Do you start from scratch or see existing list and start watching players from that and then shuffle them around based on your opinion and your eyes? I think it's a great question because everybody's different in how they started. I'll start with you, Nick.

[C]

Yeah, for me I'll typically in like July or August, whenever I have some downtime I'll throw in who I know guys only have one year of eligibility left. So for for this class that would have included the I'm just looking at the quarterbacks right now. So that would have included the Garrett Nussmeyers, Fernando Mendozas, Carson Beck's of the world. And then as the college football season goes on, keep an eye on some of these lists. Dan Bruglers are good. One NFL Network does some really good list of some underclassmen who are projecting to enter the draft and then I'll kind of put like a purple highlight on them to make sure that they do declare. And then yesterday was the deadline for underclassmen to declare and so I should have done it last night but at some point today I'm going to go through and make sure that all those are finalized and go from there. But as far as stacking them, I mean I just kind of go off of, you know, what I watch throughout the season. I watch so much college football throughout the year and I give them like a light initial stack. But I don't quote, unquote, stack them until right around combine and most times after combine just because I want as much data as possible. This is a data acquiring time. And when I was working in recruiting for four years, that was the big part, is acquiring as much data about guys as you possibly can. You can't acquire all of the data about everyone, but acquiring as much as you can to try to have as much knowledge into the process, as much knowledge into your stack and what it looks like, that's the goal. And so it kind of, it kind of moves around from here until. What is that, late February?

[A]

Yeah, it's interesting.

[B]

I follow Nick Harris cause he's gonna find the data. I'm not really data guy, I'm just film guy. And I kinda like it that way. I don't wanna see other people's opinion.

[C]

Film is a data point.

[B]

It's part of the data point.

[C]

It's a huge data point.

[B]

I don't wanna know what high school you went to. I don't know who your teammates are. I don't know where you transferred from. I just wanna watch the film and get an unbiased view of who you are. I go to PFF because they got a big 300 board or whatever. I don't follow their board. I think their board is nonsense sometimes.

[A]

Yeah, it's bad.

[B]

But I kinda make of my board is all, you know, wide receiver, tight end, offensive line, you know, I just break it all down. And as I'm watching players is also about first round, second round, whatever. As I'm watching players, I'm like, all right, cool. They got Arvl Reese up there first. I'll watch Reese, I'll put him in his spot. Oh, Caleb downs, cool. If I see another pass rusher or linebacker, I put those guys under that guy. So I'm passively stacking guys, you know, by edge, by D, tackle, by linebacker. Then towards March or April or so, then I'll go to the side of my sheet and I'll start putting these guys versus each other, like Jordan Tyler and wide receiver versus Ruben Bane, Edge. Who do I like? And I think it's a cool little way to do it, just to keep it organized there. I try to do it without notes though. I love to just do it off the dome and just talk, talk, talk. Because I feel robotic. If I'm information guy. Nick is a great information guy. I sound like I'm reading something if I'm information guy, you know what I'm saying? So I just like to kick it and Tell y' all what I saw in the player.

[A]

See, and I love that. I love that. Unencompassed, just tunnel vision. Watch the player. Does he no ball and go from there? And I think I kind of am. As the host of the show, I balance that out a little bit. Because you talked about you don't want to know the transfers, you don't want to know their hometown, you don't want to know all that. I kind of tab myself with knowing all of that. And so the way I started is I cross reference a couple of those websites that you mentioned there and get as many names possible, and I throw them onto a spreadsheet. It looks like this when it starts, if I can get it in my computer. So it's a big spreadsheet where it's just all these names, and I organize them by position and I get them on there. Then as the year goes on and I start watching guys. Yeah, there you go. When I start watching guys, I start taking those notes and I start adding, this is what they look like at the end of last year. Whenever it's done, if I can scroll over, each one of these players has notes on them all the way through. And so that way, whenever there's 600 players taken over the course of a draft weekend, I know at least something on the end of all of them. And because I don't want it to get to the point where we've all watched 200 guys, and I try and watch at least 200 guys every year. But if we get to that point, I don't want it to be Mr. 201. And then we're sitting here with our hands crossed, and he's going to be wearing a star on the side of his helmet. So I kind of try and go broad strokes more than anything. I still watch the film, still outline the player, but I'm more of fill in kind of outside content sort of role in my job. But that's how I do it, is I stack the players. I don't stack the players. I put names on a list and I stack them as I go through. And I start kind of mixing and matching the way that I like it.

[B]

Let me tell you what's so good about this group of us, though. Cause I'm just like you. I'm stopping at like 220 or something, right?

[A]

It's where it needs to be.

[B]

So when we get to 221, I bet Nick knows something about when he was in high school or something. Or if Bobby's here. Oh, we have. The league thinks this about this guy. I don't have source in the league.

[A]

It's all different roles.

[B]

We all got something, you know what I'm saying?

[A]

It's like a starting five in basketball.

[B]

I'm on the bench, though, if we just. We need one more person. So I could be the bench guy.

[A]

She could be the sixth man. Lou Will, how do you start your.

[D]

I guess I'm the guy that sits in the corner and shoot threes.

[A]

Catch and shoot, baby.

[D]

Yeah. That's all I'm good for. No, I kind of do a blend of everything that you guys were talking about where, you know, you watch guys over the course of the season and you watch film back and just put a bunch of names down and just kind of one by one as I try to watch them. I've really tried to watch a lot of defensive guys here to start, since that's probably where Dallas is going to go here in the first round and then just make a light stack of everybody and write some notes down what I think about guys and kind of go from there. But like Nick said, I think really big data points are coming up in the. In the Senior bowl and the combine and the Shrine bowl and things like that where it's really important for me to get eyes on a lot of these players because one for Measurables because some guys, like a Mansoor Delaine who's listed at 6 foot 190, I could look at him and be like, yeah, he's not six feet tall. Like there's. He's a little bit smaller than I thought. And those kinds of things change when you see them go up against some of this other top talent that maybe you didn't over the course of the season, maybe some of these smaller school guys, like an Emmanuel McNeil Warren who's going to be at the Senior bowl that I'm really excited to see is safety from Toledo. It is those kinds of settings where some guys are good in it, some guys aren't. And that's not necessarily make or break because, you know, 11 on 11 football is ultimately what matters at the end of the day. But taking all of that together and mushing it all together is what ultimately is going to get you to your final stack and to your final, you know, list of players. So I think I try to do a blend of everything.

[A]

See, and to answer Jam's initial question, there's no right or wrong way to do it. You know, you do it the way that you want to do and the way that you want to evaluate the draft. And I think that's what's so beautiful about this process is everyone's going to have their own opinion. Each team has their own opinion on how to draft. A lot of teams suck at drafting.

[B]

They do.

[A]

That's how it goes. But you may not have a certain area that you're comfortable with. Dive into that area. That's where you get better and better at what you're doing. And I think it's really.

[C]

Hold on, before we go to the next question. What we got here?

[A]

What's this?

[C]

You can't hide money.

[A]

I don't need it.

[C]

You can't hide money. Hold on.

[A]

No, no.

[B]

He don't work here with one of them.

[D]

Give him a Shador here.

[A]

It's a Versace.

[B]

Let me see that money. Let me see what you got going on.

[A]

Like, actually on camera.

[B]

You were sorry.

[A]

We had a segment on Special Edition.

[C]

Where you changed jackets, you just changed watches.

[A]

Drip or drop? It's because it's like all black here.

[B]

Like, I just come in.

[A]

It's supposed to be a casual show. I'm in a suit.

[B]

I'm watch guy.

[A]

Kai, I know you're here. I'll just take it off. All right, Matt D. Don't give it back. He said, he said a big drop off on special teams to get me. There's a big drop off on special teams this year. Do you look at some of those contributors that could possibly play a special teams role later in the draft in day three, he mentioned CJ Goodwin by name here, Turpin's production. Do you look in the Day 3 realm and say, hey, these guys need to be possible special teams guys. They can smell fresh cash. This is the best drop I've ever heard.

[B]

I thought you would be in front. If this is a Versace one, let me get my prince off this movie.

[D]

Do you have a perfect timing drop?

[C]

I think with every single draft you are looking for special teams players. Whether you have a good special teams year or a bad special teams year, you are always looking for special teams guys on day three and even guys on day two that you think could be, you know, maybe in rotational roles, but could also provide value to you on special teams. I'm just going to throw out one of my favorite special teams players on this in this draft. Josh Cameron out of Baylor, receiver, started his career as a walk on out of Cedar Park High School in Central Texas and ended up being not only a scholarship guy, but a team captain by the end of the day for Baylor. Played all special teams, core special teams groups, all four, and was a Baylor's leading receiver from this past season. I think this guy would be a home run day three pick. And when you talk about the character box, he absolutely checks that as well.

[D]

Yeah, there are a couple guys I think in this draft that make sense on special teams. And really when you think about this past year for the Cowboys, I don't know about you guys, but I think their two best special teams players were offensive players. Brevin Span Ford and Malik Davis. That's not good. You don't want your offensive guys.

[C]

Hunter Lipke.

[D]

Hunter Lipke. Thank you. You don't want your offensive guys being the guys that rack up tackles for you. That's pretty unusual. So you look at some of these defensive guys. We talked a little bit about Michael Taft, the safety from Texas. I don't know about his ability to play high level football on the defensive side of the NFL, but on special teams I think he can be a really good player. One guy that I know a lot of people like in this college Football playoff that's starting to grow on me more and more. D' Angelo Pons, as good as he's been at corner from Indiana, I think he's going to bring a ton of value to you. Special teams too. He can do both and that's really, really valuable, I think. So that might drive his stock a little bit higher and cause teams to overlook the 59170 part for it. This guy flies to the ball, he's pretty quick and he plays so much bigger than he is. He's not scared of anything. So I think those kinds of players are what's going to bring value and could make you go higher. Obviously, if you're taking a day two pick on a guy, you want him to be a good player for you defensively. But I don't think at all that it's the worst thing in the world to be a really good special team or two.

[B]

Yeah. Don't ask me about no day three in January. Day three. Don't ask about no special. Look, it's January, man. Let. Let my information guy, you know, saying take care, take care of. But. But once we get to April, I have a long list of special team guys.

[A]

I, I do have a question about a guy I know you like. Matthew wants to know. He said hypothetical question. With the needs so strong on defense and the upcoming free agents on this team, if Javante Williams does not return for the Dallas Cowboys, what are the chances that Dallas could take a guy Like Jeremiah Love in the first round, the running back out of Notre Dame. Is it that big of a need? This is just adding on to his question. Is it that big of a need to where they would even address something like that?

[C]

That's tough because you don't have a day to pick right now. That's where the conversation becomes really tough. I am a take a running back in the first round type of guy, but I just love the second round backs in this draft so much, you know, that I feel like you can get, you can address your defensive guys first round, get your starting level back in the second round, but you don't have that second round pick as of today. You know, they could trade back and pick up that pick. However, I don't think this is a conversation we're going to have on draft day. I think Javante Williams is back here. Unless something drastic happens during his free.

[A]

Agency, I feel like it would be good for both parties. Dallas wants him for multi years. Javante wants a multi year deal.

[C]

He wants to be here.

[A]

He wants to be here. He's already had a. He's had a great relationship with Shotty all the way through. I think having knowing Dak and knowing the way that they love play action and how it all kind of sets up off of each other, I think it definitely makes a. Makes an impact there, Vaj, but let's just, let's just play the hypothetical game. Let's say it doesn't happen. Would you even consider it at 12 or 20?

[B]

So, Kyle, you just said something that's interesting.

[A]

What's that?

[B]

I think it'll be incredibly irresponsible at 12. It's just so many more directions you can go. If he make it to 20. We can talk though. Okay. If you make it to 20. Because 20 different than 12 because I got first round grades that I'm trying to stick to. I'm trying to get one of those first round defensive players at 12 overall if I can help myself. But you just don't know how this board's gonna play out. You might get wiped out on defense. I don't think so, but you might get wiped out on defense. This Dane Brugler mock was offense heavy in the top 10. It may go opposite. It may go top 10 for you on defense there. You may be forced to go, all right, is it Jeremiah Love running back from Notre Dame, or is it one of these defenders that I like or is less of? Jeremiah Love might be your CD Lamb pick that they was talking about blinking light that Blinking light that you just can't pass up on relative to some of these other guys. I like Javante Mann, but Detroit liked David Montgomery and that ain't stopped them from taking Jameer Gibbs. I ain't saying Jeremiah Love is Jameer Gibbs, but I'm saying that Jeremiah Love can give you. He could be in this run scheme, these run blocking offensive linemen, Clayton Abs doing his thing, those two dudes on the outside. I think Jeremiah Love could do some why I want to cuss so bad. Some strange ish on this damn offense, but I gotta be responsible, so. Nah, not for me. But if you fall to 20 we could talk about it.

[D]

I think the Cowboys would take a tackle before they'd take a running back at 20 for sure. Probably 12, 2. Doesn't mean I don't like Jeremiah Love. I think he's fantastic. Especially what I don't think it's talked about enough with him is how good he is as a receiver out of the backfield. Like they had him running routes and it looked very easy for him to do that. And the Cowboys office didn't really do a lot of the passing game with their running backs a ton this year. Just because I don't think Javante is really that guy. Jaden Blue didn't play a lot otherwise I think he could have been that then Miles Sanders got hurt at the start of the year. But I'm with Nick. I think if you want a running back and you want one early, maybe find a way to get something on. Day two Loves counterpart Jadarian Price out of Notre Dame is a day two guy. I think he can be a really good player. The Penn State guys, Nicholas Singleton and Katron Allen, kind of an interesting duo there. Just because they weren't as productive this year. I thought when they both came back I was like, oh man, this Penn State offense could just run over everybody. They really didn't. But they've still put some good things. So there, there are other guys that I think I could be okay with later on. Again, not that I don't like Jeremiah Love. I think he's fantastic. He's gonna be a really good player. But the prices of the world, the Singletons, the Allens, I think can get the job done for you.

[A]

Both those Penn State guys are going to the Senior bowl as well, both Singleton and Allen. So we'll get a good look at them and compare them kind of along the way. Mixed with Jonathan Coleman too, out of Washington, another guy.

[B]

One more thing I will say if the Joneses Spend all the money and go in debt and free agency and they hit all the buttons and they take care of everything you need. On defense, you can talk me into it. Jeremiah Love at 12. At 12, if they go stupid on.

[A]

Free agency, you're already having the conversation. At 20, if he's there, man. But at 12, you could get talked into it.

[B]

If you give me a couple of rushes, I feel good about a veteran linebacker, some more depth in there, a corner and maybe a special teams corner. A safety. This ain't gonna happen. A safety that I like. You re sign Javante, you get GP his, you trade for some disgruntled past rusher on the West Coast. I don't know if you do some of those things.

[C]

Beyonce calls you.

[B]

Beyonce better not call Vash. And spend all the money and spend all the bread. You can talk me into a running back of Twitter.

[A]

I like it. I like it.

[B]

Appreciate you.

[A]

All right. Austin said, is there a potential scenario where Dallas would rather trade a player than a possible pick to move up back into that day two slot? Nick. That you talked about would be extremely beneficial. Is there a spot where they. And I don't really want to say names. We're not trying to trade anybody, but is there a spot where you would try and trade and.

[C]

God, I'm trying to rack my brain on guys who. Who could give you day two value. I'm not sure you have a whole lot that you're. You'd be willing to part with.

[A]

Yeah.

[C]

No. I would say no right now. This team historically has not shown the ability to do that. Not the ability. I don't want to say that because it makes it sound like it's a negative. I don't think it's a negative, but they haven't shown the willingness to do that over the course of the years.

[B]

Plus two, Nick, the guys that you could get a second back from, like, you need those guys. Like the first thing that just we not trading this guy. This is just Vash talking. Right. Osa, maybe like a Quinn and Williams type guy. You need those guys. You know what I'm saying?

[A]

That's what you're building around.

[B]

If you try to do a tag and trade on gps, you need these guys. You know what I'm saying? So I wouldn't want to trade away a guy that I need on this run that you're trying to go on just so I could pick another of a guy that's not better than them.

[A]

Yeah. And teams aren't going to be interested in sharing a second round pick for a bevy of mid level players.

[B]

You know, Cowboy fans be like, can we trade Maris and get a third back? You know what I'm saying? Like that ain't happening.

[A]

That's not happening.

[B]

And I love Maris. That's out of marriage. Yeah.

[A]

All right, that does it for Twitter on the 20 when we come back. Got some early pet cats that you guys are looking at. Anybody stand out as maybe a pet cat? I know Nick's got like six.

[B]

I got a player made me smile real big.

[A]

Okay, okay, we're going to take a look at some of the guys we've enjoyed watching the most here in the early portions of our draft process. More of the draft show presented by Miller Light when we come back after this. Cowboys fans, when it comes to navigating.

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[B]

And they snap it to Prescott, who looks right. It's not there.

[A]

He escapes left.

[B]

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[B]

See, Kyle, it's all the five people in Mississippi, you know what I'm saying?

[C]

We just had one of our funniest breaks. We gotta move on quick, Kyle. We gotta move on quick.

[B]

You know what I'm saying?

[A]

I don't know where you're leading this.

[B]

So we don't even do it on purpose. It'd just be like you two.

[A]

I feel like, hey, man.

[B]

And then you turn 35 and then. And then he make plays and then you be like, my boy.

[D]

I know him.

[B]

My boy.

[D]

I'm proud of you.

[B]

Nick Harris made the team.

[A]

In the back, I'm Kyle Yeomans. Oh, man. We're only on. What is this show? 4 and we're already on.

[B]

I don't even know what that means, dog. That's crazy.

[A]

Oh, yeah? Yeah.

[B]

I thought that was just.

[A]

That's part of it.

[B]

I mean, new.

[A]

That's part of it.

[B]

But. But Tommy, listen to, you know, baby and gunna in it.

[A]

Tommy will surprise you a little bit. All right? National championship is on Monday. The Cowboys, of course, will have their eyes on maybe a couple of those pass rushers. You got Miami, Ruben Bane & Co. Taking on Indiana. Indiana's defense just all over the place. I mean, they are. They are an impact play type of defense. Nick, when you look at the rosters between the Hoosiers and the Hurricanes, anybody outside of maybe the number one names like the Baines of the world and the Mendozas and things like that, anybody stand out that Cowboys fans should keep an eye.

[C]

On? I'll go with Miami if someone else wants to go with Indiana. I like Mark Fletcher, the running back out of Miami, and I'm curious to see what he ends up doing because he's had a heck of a playoff run. I think he could possibly be a back that's there for you at the top of day three. I think he's working himself into day two consideration. I haven't really heard what the buzz is on Fletcher. So if. If you're in the chat saying dame burglar gave him around two grade dumb A, then I sorry, you know, that was me though. Let's see C.J. daniels. That's going to be a fascinating one. The receiver out of Miami, started his career at Liberty, went to lsu, finished this year at Miami, has had a good year at Miami. He had a really good year at Liberty back when they made the Fiesta Bowl a couple years ago. That's going to be a fascinating study there. We talked about Malangoa, Ruben Bane, Akeem Mezador. We've talked a little bit about him. He's going to be 25 when his rookie season begins. Originally from Canada, edge rusher out of Miami. He. He's been super violent and I'm a big Mezador fan. The question that Mazador is going to have to answer for me is do I in do I feel good enough about his floor in the NFL for us to see that floor on day one and. Or for us to see the potential from him on day one in the NFL because he doesn't have a lot of time to develop. He's already 25. It was kind of a question we had with Savone Revel last year. It's like, okay, this guy's going to be 24 when he enters the can he give his full potential on day one? Let's see Mohammad Tour, the linebacker out of Miami. He's another guy who's had a really good playoff run. Fascinating to see what. What he brings and a guy that I know Tommy loves and we've brought up a couple of times. Corner Keonta Scott out of Miami. Versatility is there. I think that would be a very fascinating guy if he's there on day three for you.

[D]

Somehow. Yeah. The interesting thing with Scott is he's kind of in that messador boat in the sense that he's going to be 24 on draft day, 25 by the time the season.

[A]

Starts.

[D]

So. So you ask again, you know, is he at that ceiling? But I don't think anybody's had a better playoff for Miami than Keonte Scott. He's been everywhere. He had the pick six against Ohio State, kind of set the tone early in that game. And he just makes plays left and right. Like it's one of those things where you watch a guy and sure he has all the technical things, but you just kind of throw him out the window and say, man, that's just a good football player. And when you Hear this, this front office talk about, man, we missed Jordan Lewis this past year and man, he was so good this year and he was so good for us. We didn't know how good he really was when we let him go. I think Keonte Scott can be a guy for you that steps in and can play slot for you. Now that means you probably have to push Duron Bland to the outside. Are you comfortable with doing that? He had an all pro year out there. But is that something that you feel like after two foot surgeries and back to back gears that you can do? That's another question for another time. But you said Indiana guys think obviously Fernando Mendoza, the quarterback's probably going to be the first overall pick by Las Vegas. He's played really well, super efficient. He has more touchdowns than he does incompletions in the College Football Playoff. I think that says it all. D' Angelo Pons has played fantastic. The corner for them. A little bit undersized, but man, he, he plays with no fear and makes plays left and right. He had to pick six in that last game against Oregon. On the first play of the game, Pat Coogan, the offensive lineman, the center, was the Rose bowl mvp. I don't know if we've ever had an offensive lineman win the Rose bowl mvp, but they just move people up front. Man, that whole Indiana offensive line moves people and he's kind of the heartbeat of that offense. And then their linebacker, Aiden Fisher, he's probably not going to wow you with a lot of the athletic traits or anything like that, but he's the heartbeat of their defense. A tackling machine who gets guys to the ground and can be a plug and play guy for you. I don't know, you know, if he's a day two guy necessarily, but if he's sitting there on day three, we're talking about guys who can hopefully develop for you on defense and maybe be big special teamers for you. I think Fisher can be.

[B]

That. I got two questions for both these teams. A player from each of them and they're both Senior bowl guys and if you haven't watched them in depth, don't worry about it. Keontae Scott, you watched him for real? For real. Have you watched him? Is he a.

[A]

Safety? I thought same thing when I called the SMU Miami game. The way that he is ranging, he's back and forth. I could see him moving the safety and being.

[D]

Okay. I wouldn't hate it. I wouldn't hate.

[A]

It. I liked him. I mean, he was an all American at the Junior college level. He goes to Auburn. He had three solid years at Auburn. He's got versatility, but I think the nickel is where he would play.

[D]

Here. I wouldn't hate it, but I would keep him at.

[B]

Nickel. I was talking to a scout about him and it was like, have you ever seen him cover anybody? Like just cover anybody? And when I think about Keonta, I thought about it for a while, and when I think about Keontae Scott, it's like him running around, coming down, smacking, blowing this up or just kind of in zone somewhere back here, you know what I'm saying? Is he a nickel or is he a strong safety? I think that's a conversation we're going to have to like figure out at some point. He's a Senior bowl guy, so they're going to put him in a lot of those one on ones and you're going to have to see. It'd be awesome what he looks like covering different, different types of guys. I think it's going to be fun. Have y' all seen film on this guy? Elijah Surratt, wide receiver, Indiana. Have you seen.

[C]

Him? Yeah, he's fun.

[B]

Boy. He's a lot of fun.

[D]

Boy. If I was 15 touchdowns this.

[B]

Year, if I was working for the Cowboys and they say, voic, you can irresponsibly overdraft somebody at your 20th overall.

[C]

Team, it would be Elijah.

[A]

Surratt. I'd take Elijah Surratt irresponsibly draft.

[B]

Because, you know, well, because in draft world, you have to.

[A]

Draft. You gotta be.

[B]

Responsible. You gotta follow your board, right? And he may be a guy, he may not test as well as some of these other guys. He may not do as all this, you know, whatever, whatever. But if I could just Time machine project, who's gonna be real good in the league. I value these route runners, I value the size on this guy. He catches everything and he does the quarterback friendly stuff so well. And when I say quarterback friendly, I mean you don't overrun the holes in the zone. You don't say I'm open when you not open or you show your number when you wide open. You know what I'm saying? Timing and things like that. I think Elijah Surret is so good. Monster in the red zone, got some yakability plays on the outside sometimes. But I think he's like a big slack guy on the next level. I think he's Keenan Allen. If you just look at his measurables right now and just be like, oh, well, he's not going to be a 20th overall pick. But if I say to you, you gonna draft Kenan Allen, you'll take him 20th overall? I think Elijah Surrett is gonna outplay where he gets drafted, and I will irresponsibly draft him at.

[A]

20. That's a good point. I like the way you backed it up. Is he a pet cat for.

[B]

You? Yes.

[A]

Sir. He's one of.

[B]

Them. And he's a Senior bowl guy, so you better be. And he's gonna whoop. Feet. He's gonna whoop. I wouldn't be surprised if he works his way in the back of the first round, because he's gonna go out there, he's gonna route everybody up, and he's gonna be bigger than them. He like six, two, and some change or whatever. But the routes. The routes, the savviness, the nuance, that's what's go long in the league. And I think he going to be one of. One of the better dudes in this.

[A]

Draft. One of the first things I thought was when Tommy was talking about Mendoza as the number one overall pick with the Vegas Raiders. That's such an odd, like, personality combo between. You've got Nice Guy Mendoza, along with Las Vegas and Sin City, and then the. The culture of the.

[B]

Raiders. And Tom Brady's in charge.

[A]

Yeah. And then Tom Brady's above everything. Like, it's just such a weird melting pot of culture with Las Vegas and what they're trying to build there out there and in Vegas, it's going to be.

[B]

Interesting. Like I always say, Kyle, I'm cowboy guy. If it don't work, that's their.

[A]

Business. Yeah, that's what they do. Give me a couple pet cats. Who are some of your favorite watches you've had so far? Studies. When it comes to some of these players that you've. You've dove.

[D]

Into. Tommy, I like Kieran Crawford, pass rusher from Auburn, defensive end, whatever you want to call it. I remember specifically the Iron Bowl, I was texting Nick. I was like, are you seeing 24 from Auburn? Like, he's everywhere. Super quick, extremely powerful, has a great build. Might be a later guy, but, man, I. I think this kid can.

[B]

Play.

[D]

And. And I think if he cooks a little bit, I think he's going to be really good. Just going down my list here a little bit, trying to find guys. Of course, now you.

[B]

Put. You don't like none of.

[D]

Them? No.

[B]

I. You hate all them.

[D]

Guys. I.

[C]

Have. I have one for the both of.

[B]

Them.

[D]

Us.

[C]

Okay. The guy I know you like Davis And.

[D]

Igbosan. Oh.

[C]

Yeah. Corner at Ohio.

[B]

State.

[D]

Yeah. Good. Good call. I think that, you know, the question for me this year coming in, I was super scared of. He led the nation in past interference penalties called against him. He shaved that number down a lot. Was it great? Not necessarily, but I think he. He's aggressive, he's physical on the outside, and, you know, he's a slimmer guy. He's not really the. He's got the long arms and all that, but he's not really.

[B]

The.

[D]

The. The yolked up corner that sometimes you see maybe a little bit smaller and compact, but he's taller. Long arms. Those are the things that the Cowboys have liked the cornerback position in the past. And I think he made a very big effort to cut down on those pass interference penalties. I think he was really good for Ohio State this year. Obviously that whole secondary was really good. And then overall, I just love this safety class. I think there's so many good players in this safety class.

[C]

A.J. take one of mine. Go.

[D]

Ahead. A.J. hulsey, LSU. Bray Hubbard, Alabama. I don't think is that bad of a player. Just a ton of guys that hopefully. I didn't take yours there. You didn't, you.

[C]

Didn'T. I do love AJ Halsey, but I was going to mention Dylan Thieman out of.

[D]

Oregon.

[C]

Okay. He declared yesterday. Very fascinated to. To see his draft process. If you want to see some BA film, go look at Dylan.

[A]

Thieman. Just flies.

[C]

Around. Just flies around. He's smart player in the back end and badass.

[A]

Yeah.

[C]

Yeah. I don't want to cuss too much. You know, I think there's a limit on.

[B]

Here. I thought you was gonna say.

[A]

Like not a FCC.

[B]

Regulator. Like B word. Like we don't. I don't want no. No B.

[C]

Words. Honestly, it qualifies as that.

[B]

Too. Some of these can't. Got some B word.

[C]

Film. Somebody getting defensive tackle Dominique Orange, Big Orange out of Iowa State. Big fan of.

[A]

His. Is that what they called.

[C]

Him? They. Yeah, they call him Big.

[A]

Orange. That's.

[C]

Awesome. If you. If you want to watch some. Some fun defensive tackle film, go back when they were playing Kansas State in the Ireland game in Week 0. He had. He had a lot of big time plays in that game. And then I'll just throw a rece. I love Chris Brazil, the second out of Tennessee, originally from Midland. Really good kid. I got to cover his recruitment. And he is. He has shined at Tennessee after starting his career at Tulane. So big fan of him. I'm gonna have. I'm gonna have a sneaky running back. I just haven't really landed on one yet. You know, A couple years ago, I had a few. Last year, I had my nun guy and lan Larison. Lan Larison got hurt. He was going to make the damn 53. He was gonna make the.

[A]

53. He was totally gonna make.

[C]

It. But I'm gonna have a couple this year that I'm. I'm really excited to dive into and.

[A]

Find. I've got one guy that is kind of, I think, a Nick Harris sort of player, especially because he comes from a service academy and he's a Shrine.

[C]

Bowl. I already know who you're about to.

[A]

Say. Eli.

[B]

Heiden.

[C]

Yep.

[A]

Yep. This dude's fun. He's officially listed as a running back, sl. Wide receiver. So he's a gadget guy, kind of does whatever he wants, but at the end of the day, he's a football player. He can block, he can receive. He's a weapon as a route runner. He's. He can play tight end, he can block in line, he can line up in the backfield, he can run straight between the.

[B]

Tackles. Just a.

[A]

Little. A little bit of everything out of Navy. Dude. Navy's offense, they had a. They had a quarterback, Blake Horvath, who played, and they run that. That. They call it the sling tee, where it's not the wing tee, but they. They throw it around a little bit. So it's the sling tee. And Heidenreich was the reason the sling tee went the way that he did. I'm excited for him to show up at the Shrine, but. And kind of start playing that way, but I think he's. He's a. Going to be a steal for somebody. When's the last time a service academy player was.

[C]

Drafted? There was a Navy guy last.

[A]

Year. Was there a Navy player last.

[C]

Year? Blanking right now. Someone in the chat. Help me out here, but there was a. There was one. There was one last.

[A]

Year. He. He needs to be another one because he's. He's legit and he's. He's a weapon. I don't know if he's going to test great just because of athleticism, but I don't think he's going to test.

[D]

Poorly. Ryoon. Ryan.

[C]

Lane. Yeah.

[D]

Ryan. Six round by the.

[A]

Jaguars. What.

[D]

Position?

[A]

Safety. Safety. Yeah. That's about.

[B]

Right. What is he listed.

[A]

As?

[B]

Heidi? Yeah. Yeah. Is he listed as a. Oh.

[A]

A running back slash wide.

[B]

Receiver? Okay. I can't.

[A]

Find. I put him at running Back in my board. But you could do it either way and it's not going to be a.

[B]

Problem. I'll get to.

[A]

Him. Yeah, take a look at him, see what happens. Who's your pet cat that you've been watching so far.

[B]

Vach? Oh, it was a rat, man. But I got another one, man. Look, so when I was watching Tyler Booker last year, he was beating the hell out of everybody. He had a running mate in Kaden Proctor that was playing right next to him and they both did a fantastic job of just shoving the hell out of everybody and like, boy, that's my kind of football, man. I think his last year's film is better than this year's film. Could be the left guard change, I don't know. But it's like sometimes he's up and sometimes he's down sometimes. But when he's up, up, up, boy, strong as hell. Whooping feet, moving bodies. I love him as a pass blocker cause he has this kung fu about him, you know what I'm saying? Some guys like to, they worry about their hands so much that they get hands involved and like latch on a little bit. I think Kaden is so comfortable with his hands. He's like patty caking you. He'll grab you right when he needs and then you don't move because grip strength or whatever. And one thing that I learned watching past offensive lineman dejuan Jones taught me this is if your feet aren't perfect but length bails you out, then you can live. You know what I'm saying? And Kayden Proctor's feet aren't always, he can move them, they don't always go in the right spot but he can move them. But he has the length to bail them out in a lot of those situations. And what I love about Kaden Proctor is, you know, especially versus some of these other guys is that he's played like competition. You could really find him versus R. Mason Thomas at Oklahoma and them battling it out or Cassius how like fighting it out. For real. For real. So Kaden Proctor is one of my favorite offensive.

[C]

Players. You know what scares me about that statement? For sure, that was the same criticism around Tyler Guyn. And not to say that Tyler Guyton hasn't been, he hasn't been good, he hasn't been bad. I think his development track is still going up. And I said before he was even drafted, it's going to be a guy you look up after a couple of years and you're like, eh, was he a first round pick? But I think by the time it gets to fifth year option time, he's probably exercised as that fifth year guy. But this is going to be a crucial year three for him and injuries are really derailing that progression. Back to Kaden Proctor, though. The Florida State game in the first game of the year, that was, that's really tough to get out of my mind because I love Kaden Proctor. I think he's a, I think he's another BA guy guy. And I, I think when you see some of his highlights, you're like, wow, this is a first round guy. No doubt. You see some of those low lights like against Florida State, you're like, man, what do I do with this? And so I, I, I, that this is another guy. I'm very fascinated to see in the process, see how he handles some of these one on one opportunities. He a Senior bowl.

[A]

Guy. Who was it.

[C]

Again? Kaden.

[A]

Proctor? I think so if he's, if.

[C]

He is, if he's not. Regardless, I'd like to see him in some one on one situations just to see, you know, where these problems developed over time. But a lot of these offensive linemen train in Dallas too, and I'm going to be hammering those circuits hard too, trying to find this.

[B]

Guy. It'll be so fly if they had a, like a Junior versus Senior bowl and like all the juniors just went on one team and all, like everybody is going to be drafted. Just put the juniors on one side and let them fight each other and then go fight the other side in the game. That'd.

[A]

Be. Yeah, more physicality and more chances to get hurt going into the draft. That's all these prospects.

[C]

Want. Junior versus Senior.

[B]

Bowl. So look, it's already guys that won't run because they feel like they don't need to. But if you one of these guys fighting for their life, you got something to prove. I would love to see Mazidor. He's a Senior bowl guy. Maezidor gonna go out there and gain a lot of fans just showing up, whooping feet and he's a Miami guy, so he got the game. I don't even know if he's gonna play or anything. I don't know if he's gonna pro whatever because he's playing Monday. But he's a guy that in my mind, mellow hype. Cool. All right. Y' all talk about my running mate all the time. Watch me show up and just whoop feet. I'm tired, boss. I'm tired. Texas Tech just playoff game, but I'm But I think all these guys could benefit from just a little more all star.

[A]

Game. My question for you there is who do you think would win? Would it be the juniors who are leaving early because they have so much hype and draft stock already around them? Or is it the seniors that have this veteran ability in an extra year and growth under their.

[B]

Belt? Fantastic question, Kyle. I love old.

[A]

People. Get old, stay.

[B]

Old. I love the old. So when you talk about Keonta Scott, you talk about Mesadore, you talk about hype. But vosh they 24, 25 years old. So perfect. Get all this young guy stuff out of here. Because if they've been playing football for a long time and they old like that, they probably got a little more experience, they're a little more nuanced. But that's me as a, me as a scout GM guy, I'm floor guy, you know what I'm saying? So I love what I can see in you right now. I don't want to look at you. For example, Caleb Banks, senior ball guy, D tackle from Florida. He don't know how to play D tackle to me, but he's very athletic. He's very strong for his size. But it's the small D line stuff that I want you to be better at, right? He's high ceiling guy. You've been playing in Florida, bro. Like you ain't learned how to stack and shed people. You ain't learned how to develop like a rip move or like a swim or something like that. I worry about the high ceiling guys cause I don't know if they gonna grow or not. Tyler Guyton grew a bunch, you know what I'm saying? I think Tyler Guyton's been better as a pro than he was in Oklahoma. That's just my own personal opinion. But some of these guys don't grow. They just the upside guy that just never reached they upside. But at least with floor guy, at least I know you may not be better than what you are right now, but at least I know that you can go out there and.

[A]

Play. One thing I do want to elaborate on is your, your idea to play an extra game, the Junior versus Senior Bowl. I think with the way that the Shrine bowl and the Senior bowl have kind of been clashing lately, I think the winning team of each of their bowl games should play each other in like a draft bowl two weeks later. And let's just really get.

[B]

In. Kyle really want weird. Easy is.

[A]

Out. Come.

[C]

On. You would have more opt outs. You might play Ben bowl.

[A]

Season. Yeah, no, thanks. You'd have Dr.

[D]

Cooper. Dr. Hella. Trash would have a lot.

[B]

Of. We gonna end on now? We ended.

[A]

On. Yes, we are. Thanks, V. Appreciate you, man. For V. Lombardi, Nick Harris, Tommy Yaris, Chris Beam in the back, I'm Kyle Y. We'll see you next week. Tuesday, 11am Central Time for more of the draft show Trash. This has been a production of Dallas Cowboys.com and the Dallas Cowboys Football.

[B]

Club. How about this.