Draft Show: Out of Styles?

Summary

The Draft Show: Out of Styles?

DallasCowboys.com • February 27, 2026
Hosts: Kyle Youmans, Nick Harris, Tommy Yarish

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Overview

On this episode of The Draft Show, the crew (Kyle Youmans, Nick Harris, and Tommy Yarish) broadcasts live from radio row at the 2026 NFL Combine in Indianapolis. With 55 days until the 2025 NFL Draft, the discussion centers on first impressions from the front seven workouts at the Combine, rapidly rising prospects, debate over Cowboys-specific scenarios, and how Combine results are shifting big boards and possible draft strategies for Dallas. The show also explores trade-back possibilities, the impact of franchise tags on roster building, and answers fan questions in their energetic, insider style.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Front Seven Combine Standouts

• Sonny Styles Steals the Show

  • Styles, linebacker/safety from Ohio State, tied for the fastest 40-yard dash with teammate Arvell Reese and recorded a jaw-dropping 43.5" vertical at 6'5". The panel is nearly unanimous that he's now a locked top-5 pick, exceeding already lofty expectations.
  • Quote (C, 02:00): "We knew he was freaky. We didn't know he was this freaky. I can't speak for you guys, but I was blown away."
  • Quote (C, 05:19): "I don't think he's out of the top five."

• Kyle Lewis' Stock Surge

  • Lewis, Pittsburgh linebacker, has been the draft’s "biggest riser" per Nick, moving from projected Day 3 to potential Day 2 after strong Senior Bowl and Combine performances.
  • Quote (C, 03:34): "I don't think anyone has improved their stock during this draft process more than Kyle Lewis."

• Jacob Rodriguez Surprises

  • Rodriguez outperformed low athleticism expectations with elite three-cone and shuttle times. Originally pegged as "a bit slow," his testing is causing the analysts to reassess his projection, possibly vaulting him into late first-round territory.
  • Quote (B, 08:21): "He was top in the three cone... top short shuttle, tied with Jack Kelly... top 6-7 in linebacker 40s... He was up there."
  • Quote (D, 09:08): "The athleticism certainly moves him up for me because that was one of the big questions that I had."

• Other Notable Front Seven Performances

  • David Bailey (Texas Tech): 4.5 40, cementing his status as a top option.
  • Dennis-Sutton (Penn State): 4.63 40, 39.5" vertical, front end of Round 3/up into Round 2.
  • Anticipation for DB workouts: Especially Mansur Delane, who needs a 4.48 40 to secure stock (07:56).

2. Ohio State Set to Dominate Top Picks

• The panel speculates as many as three or four Ohio State defenders could be selected in the top five, including Styles, Arvell Reese, Fernando Mendoza, and Cardell Tate—plus Caleb Downs as a dark horse.
  • Quote (C, 05:29): "You could have four Ohio State guys in the top five. I think that is a realistic scenario."

3. Cowboys Draft Scenarios and Discussion

A. Who Could Fall and How to Prepare (06:17)

• The unusual volatility of picks 2–10 means teams must thoroughly evaluate all potential falling prospects (e.g., Reuben Bain, Mansur Delane).
• Preparation is emphasized: "Dot all your I's and cross your T's." (D, 06:17)
• Delane's Measurements: 5'11 6/8", 187 lbs; panel would like to see him bulk up for boundary/nickel versatility.

B. Round 1/2 Linebacker Choices

• Late First or Second for Jacob Rodriguez?
  • Panel would debate Rodriguez vs. edge rusher R. Mason Thomas at 20, but lean to Thomas for positional value.
• Draft Board Debates
  • Situational shuffling discussed if certain CBs or safeties fall to late first/early second (e.g., Dylan Thieneman).

C. Shifting Defensive Tackle Value (21:37)

• Question arises if the new Christian Parker 3–4 scheme increases DT priority, especially the 4i spot.
• Consensus: Cowboys doing due diligence, but no surefire Round 1 DT—Peter Woods closest.

D. Trade-Back and Double First Round Picks (31:05)

• Deep second and third rounds make trading back enticing to acquire additional picks.

• However, panel agrees that in this class, retaining both first-rounders (12 and 20) is premium because there's a steep drop-off after top-20 prospects.

  • Quote (C, 31:39): "I was talking to a media evaluator yesterday ... I might have 40 second round grades in this draft... if you're picking 18 versus 38, there's not that big of a difference."
  • Trade-down best executed on draft day (D, 32:08), capitalizing on other teams' needs/desperation.

4. Twitter on the 20 (19:14–30:00)

Q: Whose film and combine don’t match up?

• Jacob Rodriguez is the positive surprise—tape suggested he might not be athletic enough, combine proved otherwise.
• Zion Young (Missouri): A disappointment, didn’t show the expected explosiveness at the Combine.

Q: What pick at 12 would upset you? What at 20 redeems it?

• Colton Hood at 12 would be underwhelming; Dylan Thieneman at 20 could redeem.

5. Cowboys Roster & Offseason Impact

A. George Pickens Tag Situation (40:22)

• Non-exclusive franchise tag means Pickens can negotiate elsewhere, but Dallas can match or receive two 1sts (unlikely scenario).

  • Quote (D, 43:04): "Exclusive tag means ... can't negotiate ... Non-exclusive ... can. But Cowboys can match, and if not, they'd get two first round picks."

• Unlikely to impact draft strategy unless a messy scenario or trade arises.

• If Pickens is traded, drafting an early receiver (Carnell Tate) is a contingency conversation but seen as remote.

B. RFAs with Second-Round Tenders

• Cowboys likely to tender TJ Bass and possibly Brandon Aubrey at a second-round level, making it "very unlikely" either leaves and indicating their O-line value.

• O-line picks likely reserved for Day 3—unless significant departures occur (45:40).

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Memorable Quotes & Moments

• On Sonny Styles:
  • "We knew he was freaky. We didn't know he was this freaky." (C, 02:00)
  • "I don't think he's out of the top five." (C, 05:19)
• On trade-back likelihood:
  • "If you can keep both first-round picks and acquire capital, then I'm in. But don't trade out of the first round in order to do that." (B, 33:07)
• On combine surprises:
  • "I don't think anyone has improved their stock during this draft process more than Kyle Lewis." (C, 03:34)
  • "With Rodriguez, when I was watching the film, the athleticism didn't match up with what I saw on film." (D, 20:03)
• On O-line draft:
  • "You probably won't see this one til day three. You definitely won't see this one til day three." (C, 45:40)

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Key Timestamps

• 02:00 – Sonny Styles' combine explosion; top 5 pick debate
• 03:34 – Kyle Lewis and the art of post-combine tape review
• 07:56 – Mansur Delane measurement and 40-yard dash implications for draft stock
• 08:21–10:55 – Jacob Rodriguez’s testing, instincts, and late-1st/2nd round debate
• 13:29–14:02 – Caleb Elarmsor (TCU) as a day two guy
• 21:37–24:39 – Defensive tackle value in the new Cowboys scheme
• 31:05–35:32 – Trade-back speculation; value of top-20 picks argued out
• 40:22–45:32 – Franchise and RFA tag mechanics & wide receiver/offensive line impact

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Conclusion

This episode delivers a comprehensive, up-to-the-minute look at how the earliest Combine results are disrupting draft boards, particularly for the Cowboys. The conversation is loaded with specific player debates, scouting philosophy, and scenario planning for Dallas as the first round looms. Deep dives on Sonny Styles, Rodriguez, Lewis, and the mounting Ohio State star power set the tone. The hosts balance optimism about trading back with caution about losing out on top talent, all while keeping an eye on broader roster machinations like the George Pickens tag situation. As always, the chemistry and scouting acumen of the group shine, offering listeners actionable insights, inside tidbits, and a dash of Cowboys war room banter.

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For listeners looking for deep NFL Draft analysis with a Cowboys lean, this episode is a can’t-miss, especially as Combine ripple effects are just beginning to shape the 2025 draft landscape.

Transcript

[A]

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[B]

The following is a production of Dallas Cowboys.com and the Dallas Cowboys Football Club. This is the Dallas Cowboys.com draft show your war room for insider news and draft analysis from deep within the confines of Cowboys headquarters at the Star and Frisco. Now, your hosts, Vach Lombardi, Nick Harris, Bobby Belt, Tommy Yarish and Kyle Yeomans. Today is Friday, February 27th. It is the final day of radio row here at the NFL Combine in Indianapolis, Indiana. Welcome into the Draft show presented by Miller Light, the only beer of the Dallas Cowboys. We are 55 days away from the NFL Draft in Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania. Alongside Nick Harris and Tommy Yarish, I'm Kyle Yeomans. Guys, we've now seen the beginning of the combine on field workouts. We've talked to the players, we've gotten the measurements, we're starting to maneuver through a lot of these position groups. But last night the front seven took center stage at Lucas Oil Stadium. First opportunity to really see what the combine's about. And just like we anticipated, there were some storylines and maybe even some cowboy specific storylines that are moving and shaking just over the last 24 hours.

[C]

Yeah, I tweeted it last night. So Sonny Styles ain't getting to 12. Yeah, hate to break it. Yeah. What a phenomenal combine effort from Sonny Styles. I mean, whether it be having the second fastest 40 yard dash. Well, tied for the first actually, with his teammate Arvell Reese. And then the the 43 1/2 vert jump at 6 foot 5. Like, oh my God. I mean, we knew he was freaky. We didn't know he was this freaky. I can't speak for you guys, but I, I was blown away. Even with high expectations for son. Certainly stole, he certainly stole the show on day one. But I, I do think there are some fascinating topics that are happening that potentially could slide some intriguing defenders to 12. But nevertheless, it was a good front seven day to get a good look on a lot of these guys.

[D]

Yeah, Styles being two and a Half inches higher on the vertical jump than anybody else is unbelievable. So that, that obviously stole the show. But, you know, I think a lot of other guys that, that we've talked about, Arville Reese was fantastic. He's the one who tied Styles for that fastest 40 time. He was great. David Bailey, 4.5. I mean, I, I've told you guys how much I love Bailey, and I think he cemented himself up top there last night. One guy that we talked about a little bit at the Senior bowl, he was one of the stars. Kyle Lewis, the linebacker from Pitt. I thought he had a really good day, and I thought his testing numbers were really good. So I think that's one where he's kind of cemented himself. And I know you said this too, Nick. I think he's kind of cemented himself. And now the day two conversation. Whereas maybe earlier on in the process, he was looked at as a guy who maybe you could pick up on day three.

[C]

Yeah, when I was looking at guys going into Senior bowl that I needed to fresh up on, Kyle Lewis was certainly one of them. And I put Midday three and I, I tweeted. I tweeted out earlier, I said, I don't think anyone has improved their stock during this draft process more than Kyle Lewis. Because now you go back to the film with this data, and this is what we talk about, acquiring the data, because the data is really important. You see what he does in mobile. You see how he tests, and then you go back and you combine that with the production and the tape, and it's like, damn, this is actually a really good football player that I kind of just glanced over as I was going through my Senior bowl stuff. And that's. That could be said for every team as well. Scouts miss on guys. That's how, you know, all pros end up being undrafted and things as such. But Kyle Lewis is certainly stamping his. His name and, yeah, he's a round two player.

[B]

Now, in my opinion, that's that conversation that we had yesterday with Bobby talking about what Wil McClay said on the Fan about how traits get people in trouble. Also, overlooking certain traits can get you in trouble if it's a guy like that. And maybe the traits aren't as apparent in his college tape, but when you put him in those environments like the Senior bowl and the combine and he shows out, it does provide an extra layer there for teams to scout through. I want to keep back at the Sonny Styles conversation because it happens every year and they're the first day to go right the first group to go where there's guys that are going to steal the show at the combine and everybody was kind of waiting and anticipating what he was going to do anyways on night one at in at Lucas Oil Stadium. So then you turn around as the week goes on, is it possible that other individuals can overtake what Sonny Styles did and maybe he ends up still finding his way? Maybe I'm just trying to be optimistic.

[C]

I think you are.

[B]

Maybe I'm just trying to talk myself into it.

[C]

I don't think he's getting out of the top five now.

[A]

Top five?

[C]

I don't think he's out of the top five.

[B]

So does that mean Arvel Reese falls?

[C]

I don't think he's getting out of the top five.

[B]

How many five top five picks can we have?

[C]

Yeah, I think you're. This is just seven guys that aren't

[B]

making it outside of the top five.

[C]

This is my current day prediction. I think you're going to see obviously Fernando Mendoza, you're going to see Arvell Reese, Sonny Styles, and I think you could even see Cardell Tate. I think you could see three Ohio State guys in the top four right there. That's before we even get to Caleb Downs. You could have four Ohio State guys in the top five. I think that is a realistic scenario. But like we've talked about on the show though, there are going to be so many different scenarios for after pick one. Last year we were talking about, hey, the draft really starts at like pick seven. You know, the top six are pretty much determined. Same could have been said for the year prior. I feel like it stretched to like pick eight. This year it's pick one and I think by the time we get to draft we'll probably have pick three. But still, the draft is going to start really early on in this one and there's going to be so many different scenarios that could play out. But I think one of those likely scenarios is, is that all these Ohio State guys come off the board really quick.

[D]

And that's important. Why? It's a reason why you have to be super thorough in your research on all these players. Because if that's the case, if you have nine spots in front of you where you have no idea what's going to happen, you could end up with, we've seen it time and time again where you look at the board and you're like, hey, how is this guy sliding? Like, what if it's a Reuben Bain this time around? If teams are worried about his arm length or what if it's a Mansur Delaine? If he didn't measure well or if he doesn't test well, how are teams going to react to that? So that's why it's important in this class more than ever to make sure that you've got all your P's and q's and dot your, all your I's and t's, whatever the sayings are for that. And, and make sure that everything that you have gives you confidence that your guy that you get at 12 is there. But be prepared for whatever situation arises.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

We do have months or Delane's measurements that have come through. I say that 5, 11 and 6, 8 came in height wise. We expected him to come under six foot. I think we talked about that yesterday. 187. I would like him to bulk up

[B]

to a little light.

[C]

Yeah. Because he, he has the versatility. He can be a nickel guy. And I, I think again, I still think he can make sense for 12, but I, I would like to see him add a little thickness,

[B]

arm length.

[C]

Come on.

[B]

You know, I mean there's. I agree with you. I think especially if he's going to have boundary possibilities too, the insides and outsides. I, you need some level of versatility and physicality there. But yeah, that's interesting. And he'll take the field tonight, right? The defensive backs are tonight.

[C]

Yeah. And Monsor Delane needs to come in around 4, 4, 8 for, for him to see his stock kind of stay consistent. If you're a Cowboys fan and you're a huge Monsoon Delaine fan and it doesn't matter if he runs a 448 or a 4, 9 to you, then you need to be rooting for that 4, 9. Because I do think there is a scenario where he does not test well. And I said this yesterday and he slips into the teens, maybe even to 20.

[B]

There's another gentleman out of the linebacker group that I think surprised a lot of people and maybe made himself some money last night because it shows that one of the conversations around him that was a knock might be just a, A conversation. That's. It is Jacob Rodriguez.

[D]

Yeah.

[B]

The athleticism that he showed yesterday. He had the top three cone out of all linebackers at a 6, 9 flat. He had the top linebacker short shuttle tied with Jack Kelly at a 4, 1, 9. He was top 6, 7 in the official linebacker 40s. I mean he was, he was up there as well. He ran a 4, 5, 7. I mean, what did you take away from what he brings you from an athleticism standpoint. Now to pair with the game breaking tape and then a phenomenal Senior bowl week, too.

[D]

Well, I think what, what we had talked about, and I'll take ownership for this too, is that my, when I watch Rodriguez, I'm like, I don't know if he's going to hang athletically. Well, now he goes out and does this and I got to, I got to question my eyes. Like, do I need to go back and rewatch and see? Okay, was it really that much that noticeable or was that just kind of a widespread knock on him? And when I watched it, I did think that, okay, maybe he's a little bit slow here, but what he was so good at was creating turnovers and creating havoc. And that's stuff that he was so fundamentally sound that he was in the right place at the right time. He has a knack for finding the right angle to punch the ball out. And in the passing game, he just would be in the right place too when he, when he's picking passes off. So the athleticism certainly moves him up for me because that was one of the big questions that I had. But is it going to be able to translate onto the field? That's going to be the other question that I ask myself, is these numbers are great, they're fantastic and they do change how I look at them. But it's one thing to do all those things in this setting. It's another thing to go out and play football and have that same athleticism. Is that a guy that. That can still translate to do it? And he very well could be, I think so.

[C]

I think that that is the case. And the questions I had about Jacob Rodriguez, it was. I kind of caught myself yesterday realizing I was nitpicking with him and I knew that. But I. When you look at the talent and you understand the instincts as well, he's. He's an fbp. He's a football player. And the athleticism shows that he's an athletic fbp. And those things, you have to take those early in drafts. And I think Jacob Rodriguez really stamped that for himself.

[B]

Do you feel like he is squarely a second round pick now because of the numbers paired with the first?

[C]

I could see him go late first. I really could. Especially for, you know, any team, really wanting to get in on these linebackers because this is such a talented linebacker class, it's going to go deep. But the, the top tier ones, and I would put Jacob Rodriguez in this top tier. Well, I would say second tier. I Think Sonny Styles is now in a tier of his own. But I think it's. It's worth a late first round pick for a linebacker needy team. Absolutely.

[D]

Okay, so shout out to our guy Vodch. Let me ask you this. You're sitting there at 20 and you get Delane at 12. Right. Would you take Rodriguez there?

[C]

Who's on the board?

[B]

I was about to say we need to know context here, let's say.

[D]

So he took a corner. We'll say our Mason Thomas is there. Keonte Scott is there. If you want to do on double on corner. Macedor is there. I'll give you those.

[B]

Is that.

[D]

Is that three good enough or give

[C]

me thienaman because I'm taking Theta. But no, I. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I'm just being.

[D]

You're just trying to find an answer to say yes.

[C]

I would take. I would. I would take our Mason Thomas in that scenario.

[B]

I think I would.

[C]

But I. I would have a conversation about it. Absolutely. In the war room. For sure.

[B]

He would be the name that you're debating against.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

Like, why shouldn't I take this guy?

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

So let me ask you that question. Why wouldn't you take Rodriguez over our Mason Thomas in that occasion?

[C]

Just because I see our Mason Thomas is more impactful as a pass rusher and with what he does and even run game stuff too, than Jacob Rodriguez. And that's no knock to Jacob Rodriguez. It's just positional value at that point that you have to nitpick. There's. And I would take our Mason.

[B]

What if you signed a blue chip edge rusher in the draft? I mean, in free agency beforehand.

[C]

So our Mason Thomas still. Yeah.

[D]

Can't have enough pass rose.

[B]

Yeah. Yeah, I agree with you. I'm just trying to.

[C]

Trying to. Yeah. Devil's advocate.

[B]

Trying to push you a little bit and see, you want me to take the stash.

[A]

I get it. You want me to take the.

[B]

Saying it would be a Jersey seller. No doubt about it. Denied. Dennis Sutton had a nice day as well. You talk about the Penn state edge rusher. 46340, 163 split.

[C]

I'm telling you, that's a round two guy. I've been saying it since the start. That is a right there with you guys.

[B]

He had a vert 39.5 vertical. He was 1011 in the broad jump. I mean, he was. He was electric as well. I've got him right in the. The front end of the third round at the moment, which makes me think he could definitely move into that second round possibility. Some other names that stood out. I thought the TCU linebacker

[C]

Caleb Alarms

[B]

or I don't know why I struggle with the alarms or out of all the names that I've, I've said on this show before, Caleb Alarms or the linebacker out of TCU had a really nice day as well.

[C]

Yeah, that's athleticism. And honestly, he got snubbed from All American mentioning last year. He was a damn good defender for them. Not only a damn good defender, he was their lead communicator for the last two years.

[D]

Yeah.

[C]

Do not sleep on Caleb Beelarms or there are a couple of really good TCU defenders in this draft. El Arms or is one Bud Clark is another Bud Clark got a lot of love in Mobile. Yeah. Go back and watch El Arms or that is. That's a day two guy. Absolutely.

[B]

Anybody else stick out to you from yesterday's combine workouts?

[D]

Tommy, like I said, Bailey from Texas Tech, I've been a huge fan of. I thought he was. He's always been really good. Kyle Lewis Lemak from Kit from Pittsburgh. Excuse me, Anthony Hill, my linebacker from Texas.

[B]

Why'd you say my.

[D]

Okay, Anthony Hill, the linebacker from Texas. But Hill I'm still kind of on the fence on because people are split on him and I see why the athleticism is there. He was always going to be a guy that tests really well, but can he read, react, can he do the things that you want your middle linebacker potentially to do? His, you know, turnover stuff in college was really good production wise and you know, he can move all over and tackle really well, but can he get to the right spot and is he going to be able to do that and diagnose quickly at the NFL level? That's my his eyes are a little bit of my concern, but I still think he's a solid player. He'll be a day two guy for sure and I think the athletic testing certainly puts him there.

[B]

All right, when we come back, we've got some Twitter on the 20 questions. Plus we're going to take a look at the guys tonight that we can expect to shine on the field with the workout portion of the NFL Combine. Twitter on the 20 coming up in just a matter of moments. Plus we've got some Cowboys stuff in the final segment that we're going to sort through as the combine rolls on. We got plenty of rumbles and conversations going on around Indianapolis. More from Nick Harris, Tommy Arch, I'm Kyle Yeomans. We'll talk to you here in a second with with more of the draft show.

[A]

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[B]

This is the Dallas Cowboys.com draft show. Welcome back into the draft show here from radio row at the NFL combine in Indianapolis, Indiana. Back with Nick and Tommy. I'm Kyle Yitz. Tommy, it is time for some Twitter

[D]

on the 2020 20.

[B]

That was really good. Very nice. I didn't even know that I have

[D]

to be good for something on this show.

[B]

So I didn't realize we, we had a impressionists in our midst. This is from big rich star talk. You can say what's a big rich start talk? Whose film and combine testing aren't matching up so far? Of course we only just have the one day to go by at this point of recording, but does anybody have any, anybody sticking out that isn't matching up? Maybe in a good way, maybe in a negative way.

[C]

Oh, that is a man I would have to sit with.

[B]

That kind of a loaded question.

[D]

What Rodriguez would fit under that category. Okay, for me at least of when I'm watching the film. What's that look for?

[C]

I'm just curious, like which one was worse than the other to you

[D]

of what doesn't match up? Yeah. Okay, maybe I just should rephrase this. With Rodriguez, when I was watching the film, the athleticism didn't match up with what I saw on film.

[B]

I see what you're saying.

[D]

Does that make sense?

[B]

Yeah. You're not saying that his film as a whole was disappointing compared to his combine testing?

[D]

Oh, no, no, no.

[B]

That's not what you're saying.

[D]

Yeah, no, I, I, maybe I misinterpreted the question, but that was when I read it. That's what, that's what came to mind.

[C]

Zion Young for me out of Missouri, he was A guy I had high hopes for coming into this week, and I'm trying to find the official numbers, but he was a guy yesterday as we were watching the combine, that was like, man, he's honestly not looking as great as I expected him to. He had a couple of stumbles in the positional drills and I'm sitting here trying to find his testing numbers that I expected him to shine yesterday, and he didn't really do that. But I love the tape from Zion Young. I think he's violent. We talked about him a little bit yesterday and I thought he was a little bit more explosive than he actually showed.

[B]

And at the Senior bowl too. I mean, he showed out at the Senior bowl in Mobile. He's got that big body, the 262 pounds. I mean, he's got a lot to carry around, but the flexibility was never really part of his game. Right.

[C]

Yeah. And I expected, or he had the opportunity, I should say, to come in and really stamp that first round value, because I think there's a group of like three or four edges that can sneak into that back end of the first round and all those guys have the opportunity this week to really stamp that. And I think a guy like maybe Josh Joseph's has done a better job of that than Zion Young.

[B]

Okay, so those are two good ones across the board. To start it, Jordan wants to know, has the chances of drafting a first round defensive tackle instead of becoming or instead of a defensive end become higher because of the importance of the four eye position in the Christian Parker 3, 4 scheme than we're anticipating to see?

[C]

I think, I think they're doing their due diligence on defensive tackle. But if, if you're looking at early picks, I don't think you're going to see defensive tackle in that, in that mix. And honestly, there's just too many questions with all these defensive tackles too. Like, I. I don't know if there's one in the first round where I'm looking at and I'm like, yeah, sure thing.

[B]

Got him.

[C]

Yeah, yeah, like there. Peter woods is as close as I can get. But even then it's like, okay, can he add the weight back that he lost last year and can he get back in the right scheme and adjust to that scheme? I think he can. Like, Peter woods is my DT1. But you know, there's still questions surrounding these guys.

[B]

I think that's a good question because when, when you do switch a scheme like this, it's all projection, all of it. Even the guys that are in the building are being projected into a new spot in a new role. And I think the more that we've talked to Cowboy staff members over the course of the week, they're excited about it because they feel like the guys that are in the building are going to fill a lot of those roles. I mean, yesterday Brian Schottenheimer mentioned Maris Liefel moving to outside linebacker. And that doesn't seem like on paper that it would be a fit. I mean, you would need to add weight, you need to add pass rush ability. There's a lot of things there that Maris hasn't shown during his time at with the Cowboys in the NFL. But a lot of these draft prospects are the same way. Like they don't maybe fit specifically into the scheme unless they have that versatility one way or the other.

[D]

Yeah, you're absolutely right. But when you look at the Cowboys roster specifically, I mean, you've got most of the pieces that you'd want for what Christian Parker is going to run. I mean, that was another thing that Brian Schottenheimer talked about yesterday, how Kenny Clark has experience playing the nose from his time in Green Bay and he did a very good job of playing the nose in Green Bay. And then Quinn Williams at 3Tech was what he played at Alabama coming out, which made him a first round pick. You can fit Oso Digizua into one of those roles and I think it can work for you. Does that mean that you are completely stricken from taking a defensive tackle? No. I mean, if you feel like Christian Parker says he wants to win up front and they want to affect the quarterback. If you talk to offensive players and quarterbacks around the league, they will tell you they would much rather get pressure from the edges than they would the interior. So if they feel like they've got a guy in this class that can make interior pressure and make it harder on quarterbacks, then, I mean, you add it. But I just think that you have the pieces right now, if you're Dallas, to be able to do that and you can add the external pieces on the edges or outside linebacker now in this case, to be able to finish those plays and not give the quarterback any sort of escape route. But they just don't have the personnel for it right now.

[B]

Yeah. Joseph Hoyt out of the Dallas Morning News wants us to.

[C]

We don't talk about that outlet.

[D]

Sorry, you're right, sorry.

[B]

He says, can we get a Frisco Heritage shout out on the show? Can you give shout out to the Coyotes? He's saying that because Our server at lunch.

[C]

Honestly, no. Because Frisco Heritage knocked me out of the basketball playoffs when I was a sophomore in high school.

[D]

Shout out, Frisco Heritage. Good job, guys.

[C]

I'm still not bouncing.

[B]

You're not okay with that? Cool.

[C]

The Coyotes got you to win that game. Yeah.

[B]

That's disappointing. Heartbreak.

[C]

I was hurt, so that's the difference.

[B]

Oh, you were out. You were on the sideline. You didn't play through paying. No comment. No comment.

[C]

My agent told me to hold out.

[D]

Oh, yeah.

[C]

It was a business decision.

[B]

You were trying to look forward to contract. You know, our server at one of the restaurants in Indianapolis today was. Was a Frisco Heritage grad, so had a little Texas connection in Indianapolis. That's why Joseph wants to talk about it.

[A]

All right.

[B]

Tristan wants to know, is there a pick at 12 that would make you, as an evaluator, upset at 12? And then there's a second part of this question that says, and if so, what pick at 20 would bring you right back into the fold if you feel like you were upset after the first pick?

[C]

The Colton Hood scenario keeps popping into my mind at 12, and that would. That one would be tough for me to stomach. What would bounce back for me at 20 is if they go and get Dylan Feneman.

[B]

Oh, wow.

[C]

Yeah. Because I think that would help, you know, my concerns with Colton Hood because you have a trusted guy over the top like that or a versatile guy who can step up and play nickel, who. I think he can do that too. So. Yeah, I like that question.

[D]

I saw one the other day where Messador, the defensive end from Miami, who I love, I'll say that went 12. I think that would be. Even if you're wiped on defense, I think that would be a bit of a reach. And I'm with Nick Thieneman or. I mean, I'm starting to like Emmanuel McNeil Warren more and more as things go on. Either one of Those guys at 20 or an R. Mason Thomas or a Keonte Scott. Even if you. If you want to get really old and add two really old players.

[B]

Really old meaning 24 and 25.

[D]

24 for Scott and the nickel corner from Miami and Macedor 25 when the season starts next year, that would be my scenario.

[C]

See, this Dylan Thieman is at 20 is a sweet spot. If it were me and I was, you know, handling the draft room that day, not that anyone would ever pay me to do that, I would be going into the day. Dylan Thieman is my number one target at 20 because I I think that's, I think that would be realistic. I think it's a sweet spot like I mentioned and you're going to need that position, no doubt. And he's got the versatility, he's got the instincts, IQ scheme versatility as well. Going back to his days at Purdue. There's, there's, there's a lot there to love. A lot there to love.

[D]

So let me, let me shout out to Vaj, Let me ask you this. You're sitting there at 20, right? Let's say Dylan Thieman, by some, by godly miracle, yeah. Sonny Styles makes it to 12. So you. Or you get a linebacker 20 at 12.

[C]

12.

[D]

12.

[C]

I was like, why did not take him at 12?

[D]

12. No, no, no, no. 12. So you get a linebacker at 12. We could say Styles just as a placeholder. You're sitting at 20 with Jermod McCoy and Dylan Thieman at 20. Is it still thienaman Easy choice.

[C]

I'm not drafting Jermod McCoy. That was gonna be on this team.

[B]

That was gonna be my answer to this question. If, if he's at 12, which I don't know if he's even in that conversation much, if he doesn't run just off the charts during his pro day or at least as expected.

[D]

We talked about it yesterday.

[B]

We talked about it. Yeah, we talked about it yesterday.

[D]

And make sure that was still the case.

[B]

That would be one to where there are so many questions around him. And it adds another red flag to injury guy to your already red flagged injury secondary. You can't be messing around with that at 12 or 20. Let's just keep that in mind. Now if he comes or he goes to Knoxville and he knocks out the pro day and he's fantastic. Yeah, I didn't mean to do that. But when he comes, at least hits the field for the first time. I was really hoping he would work out this week and then we would see that growth going into the pro day. I was hoping we would have that, those two bullet points on the graph to say, okay, he did it not once but twice. And we can kind of compare it now. There's no comparison. It's one day for him to solidify whether he's a first round pick or whether it's a red flag. And that's where I think the medicals this week are probably going to tell us a lot of that story. And that may come out over the next couple weeks as well. But man, yeah, that would be one that would be very disappointing. And I'M I'm on the thienam and bandwagon as well. I think you. You need the safety.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

You need somebody over the top.

[C]

He could be the nickel, too, and

[B]

he very well could be the nickel. And it gives you a. It gives you flexibility in your secondary. So whether you take a linebacker or a corner at 12, you. You take Vietnam in, you're not getting Caleb Downs. I think at this point, we've kind of already come to grips with that. The. He would be the number two safety on my list. And if you're getting him at 20, sign me up. You've got a secondary player that's going to be fantastic for years to come.

[A]

Yeah.

[C]

And if you were Philadelphia or Kansas City or Seattle and you had the opportunity to draft your mod McCoy, my goodness, what a luxury that would be because you have a really good secondary and you can allow Jermod McCoy to get in the building, get healthy, get his feet back under him, which I think is really important because you saw Savone Revel healthy, but not necessarily his feet back under him last year. And it's the same exact situation here. Dallas just doesn't have that luxury. And again, I know I mentioned this on yesterday's show, but it's really sticking in my mind when it comes to Jermon McCoy specifically. But Brian Schonheimer mentioned in his media availability yesterday, Christian Parker is really good at getting guys to play early and we need that. And I don't. There's a different level of expectation for a guy like Jermond McCoy when he comes in the building versus a guy like Monsour Delaine. You expect Monsour Delane to hit the ground running. Where you're with Germon McCoy, you're like, okay, what can he do here in the off season? We want to make sure we put his training wheels on first. Things like that. You're not afforded that luxury right now, especially with the secondary getting Duron Bland back from his foot injury, getting revel back to 100%. I know we've talked about it, but that. I just don't see how. Jermod McQueen's up in Dallas.

[B]

The final question of Twitter on the 20 today, Russell wants to know, and we've talked about this a couple times already, but in this draft, based on the depth of talent needed at each of the positions, does it still make more sense to trade back a little pick in day two, a time or two, or just stick and pick with the premium players at 12 and 20, run that back? Is he. Is it still make sense based off of the, the depth of each of these positions that Dallas needs and the conversations we've had this week that a trade down scenario is still possible. Or do you stick and pick at 12 and 20?

[C]

Yeah, I think.

[D]

Go ahead, you got it.

[C]

I think trade scenarios are certainly on the board. No doubt. I was talking to a media evaluator yesterday that I really respect. He, he does really good work and he was like, I think I might have 40 second round grades in this draft. He's like, there's not many first round guys, but there's so many second and third round guys where it's like, man, if you're picking 18 versus like 38, there's not that big of a difference as it has been in the past. And so if you're picking up day two capital, this is a good draft to do. So.

[D]

Yeah, and I completely agree. The, the only thing though my approach would be if you're going to trade, I don't know if I would move until draft day because there is so much question about, like we talked about at the start of the show, you get to pick three by that point. What happens after that with that uncertainty? Not only do you not know who could be on the board there for you at 12, but if you're wiped, there could be another team that's like, hey, we really need to get in front of Los Angeles because they, we feel like they might take this player. So somebody might give you some more capital based on the tax of the desperation of wanting to move up and then get whoever they want if they need an offensive player. Especially since if Dallas is white, that's probably what's going to be sitting on the board. So my thing would be if that's the case, then you wait till draft day and absolutely, if you can, if you can strike a deal where you can get multiple day two picks, then you certainly pull the trigger on that.

[B]

See, I think part of your argument of why day two and three is going to be so loaded with those players and you've got the 42nd round grades is part of why I would stay in pick at 12 and 20. Because you have the ability to get one first round graded player, I would assume at 12 and then maybe one of your other first round grades does fall depending on how many first round grades you have, whether that's 12, 15, 18, whatever it ends up being. If you're sitting at 20 and a couple other second round graded players on the Cowboys board goes in front of them, then you might have an opportunity at a first round graded player. I don't think you'll have that in the second or the third round. So you can make it to where these two, these two picks are so premium. And yes, it's going to be annoying on draft weekend when all four of us are, all three of us and then Vodch and Brian and all these other guys are sitting around just looking at each other on day two, talking about the other drafts, draft picks that are happening. But if you trade one of those picks, you end up with a second round pick and a third round pick. You end up just going back to a regular draft where you pick it in the first, you pick in the second, you pick in the third. If you can keep both first round picks and acquire capital, then I'm in. But don't trade out of the first round in order to do that. That's my only concern because I think if you take your first two picks there, you're going to find some difference makers right now that Christian Parker and or whoever is going to have some success with right off the bat.

[D]

Okay, let me ask you this then. Are you cool if it's a move back in the first round and added third round?

[B]

As long as you keep your first two.

[D]

That's what I'm saying, yes. Swap first and you get a pick in the third round?

[B]

As long as you keep your two picks, I'm cool with that.

[D]

Okay.

[B]

If it's, if it's giving up a first round pick in order to get premium spots of the second round, the couple third round picks, whatever it may be from a trade chart standpoint, if you're, as long as you're picking twice and I would even say twice in the top 20, that's, that's where I think there's a sweet spot. If you, you have two picks in the top 20 of this draft, take advantage of those because there's some high end talent there that's going to be available at 12 and 20. I, if, if you are going to move, you got to stick in the top 20 and that's why I think 12 is the only option to trade back from. I'm not trading 20 because it's one, not going to be the highest value and two, I would rather take a guy or take a chance that a guy I really like is going to fall down there to that 20th spot.

[D]

Okay.

[B]

All right. When we come back here on the draft show, we're going to wrap up radio row by talking about some of the Cowboys rumors and news about what they could be looking at, maybe even updating the list of prospects that the Cowboys have talked to today and what they've shown throughout the week on how they could be leaning More of the draft show from Indianapolis, Indiana when we

[A]

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draft show back here on the Draft show presented by Miller Lite, the only beer of the Dallas Cowboys. This segment is brought to you by your Texas Ford dealers. Ford is the best in Texas alongside Nick Harris, Tommy Arch. It's our final segment from radio row here at the NFL Combine this week and want to remind you Cowboys Nation the Cowboys United is presented by GlobeLife exclusively in the Dallas Cowboys app. Join the official fan club today and receive access to Cowboys drops where you can win game tickets, autographed items, exclusive experiences and more. Download the app now to join. Of course the NFL Combine and the NFL draft has a lot of moving and shaking beforehand to even get to what is a clear picture on draft weekend and one of the dominoes that is needed the fall was George Pickens and the tag being placed on him. It was reported as a non exclusive franchise tag which is a little interesting. But my question to you guys is from a draft standpoint, how does this change things or if it changes things at all from the Cowboys perspective?

[D]

I wouldn't because I find it very difficult to envision a scenario at this point in time where George Pickens is not playing for the Cowboys. I think worst case you see him just play on the tag. I think it's too invaluable to not play and sit the year out. Obviously financially that's going to be a big burden, but I just think that is this process going to drag out? Very likely. It's good. It very likely will. But I think at the end of the day, in one form or fashion, he's. I'm confident that the Cowboys will have George Pickens on the field. It's just a question of when. So that's. That doesn't. That means I'm not really thinking too much about the draft unless there's a trade beforehand, obviously, then, yeah, you know, receiver definitely becomes a question.

[C]

Yeah. And, you know, there's probably a fun scenario that you're gonna see on, you know, a random article at some point the next few weeks where it's, you know, throwing George Pickens in trade conversations and how that could potentially impact the Cowboys in the draft. I mean, they want George Pickens here, and George Pickens wants to be here, here. I'm saying Dallas and how it necessarily affects things from a draft standpoint is if somehow things get messy enough before draft day to where they see a different conclusion being drawn, and, you know, that'll be determined largely over the course of the next month or so. Tommy and I will have the opportunity to go down in the owner's meetings in Phoenix, Arizona at the end of March, and we're going to get a pretty good update then on where, you know, these negotiations stand. That was the same place last year where Jerry had the famous, I don't know, the agent quote, and I hopefully expected to talk to Jerry Jones today as well. So, you know, we'll get his side of things as the tag is placed and we're moving forward. But from Pickens standpoint or Pickens representation standpoint, they're prepared to play the long game with this. And so, you know, if. If that ends up manifesting in a situation to where the Cowboys look at the trade market more seriously, then, yeah, you know, is there a scenario where like, hey, at 12, you take Carnell Tate, if he slips, and then you trade Pickens for a second round pick that day and you get a second round pick and then you go get, you know, your linebacker, your safety or your edge rush or whatever it may be, you know, that that's a scenario. Am I, am I saying it's likely? Not at all. But I, I do think it's worth having, especially when we're talking about the draft scenarios and how that could play a factor into this.

[B]

And then what is the biggest difference between the non exclusive and the exclusive franchise tag that changes anything specifically from a Cowboy standpoint, whenever it comes to what they're saying by Placing a different tag on Pickens as opposed to just go ahead and doing the exclusive franchise tag.

[D]

Exclusive tag means that he can't negotiate with other teams in free agency.

[B]

Sure.

[D]

Non exclusive tags. Net tag means that he can. But the Cowboys would still have the option to match whatever offer he's given. And if Pickens were to accept that offer and the Cowboys are fine with him taking that offer and leaving, the Cowboys would get two first round picks.

[C]

So basically it's like a trade for two first round picks. And essentially if. Yeah. Somebody were to sign Pickens, which it's not going to happen.

[B]

Yeah. Would that be a.

[D]

If.

[B]

If that were the case and let's say it does happen. Like you said, it's not going to happen. Is that an immediate first round pick or is it. Is that something that could go.

[C]

It depends on the timing. I believe that that one that's like gray area, fine print CBA stuff that I have to fresh up. But it's never happened. And so that's, that's why there's not really a precedent for it.

[B]

We've already talked about that. In terms of the trade value anyways for Pickens is nowhere near two first round picks.

[C]

Correct. It's. It's about a second.

[B]

Exactly. And so if for a team to be able to put together an offer that would be willing to do that, even as fun as that sounds, that's not going to be a possibility.

[D]

This very well me may be part of the negotiation tactic in the sense of the Cowboys saying, hey, go see what your market is.

[B]

See what the numbers are going to be.

[D]

Go see what the numbers are going to be.

[C]

And you know, since we're having that conversation, it's worth having the conversation of. The Cowboys are expected to place the second round tender on TJ Bass.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

And if they can't find an agreement with Brandon Aubrey before free agency opens, they would place a second round tender on him as well. Again, this is a situation that literally has not happened in the NFL. But the rules state with these restrictive free agents that if you place a second round tender on them, it basically gives them a one year $5.8 million salary if they do not agree to a contract with another team. If they do, the Cowboys have the right to match. And if they decide not to, since they put that second round tender on them, they would get a second round pick in exchange. And I can guarantee you if TJ Bass or Brandon Aubrey were exchanged for a second round pick, any team would take that. But it's worth mentioning from a draft standpoint, but very unlikely to happen. Just as it is for a team to get two first round picks or give away two first round picks for George Pickens.

[B]

The the tag element of it all. And I think TJ Bash shows exactly what they feel like his value is at the offensive line position too. Right. I mean, they wouldn't just place a tender on him if they didn't want him back in Dallas. They want to make sure he's a part of that offensive line. Does that change any way of how the Cowboys could possibly be looking at offensive linemen in this draft, especially for depth pieces?

[C]

Yeah, yeah. It depends on who they retain in free agency. And TJ Bass and Brock Hoffman are the two biggest ones. I think if you see one of those guys go, then the likelihood increases a bit. Rob Jones is set to be a free agent as well, but I, I, I Cowboys taking offensive lineman in every draft, but you probably won't see this one till day three. You definitely won't see this one till day three. I can go ahead and stamp that

[D]

it was a Johnny Cornelius out of Oregon last year. I would expect something similar this year. And if they lose one of the guards, I probably think it would be a guard too.

[B]

Yeah. All right, Combine week coming to a close at least on the media portion side of things, and everybody kind of heading out over the next couple days. We got to get out of here a little bit early because there is some other stuff on the horizon like Nick alluded to. We're going to try and see if we can talk to some more members of the Cowboys front office and we'll report back to you back in the Star on Tuesday with more of the Draft show back at our normal time as well at 11am Central Time for Nick Harris for Tommy Yarish. I'm Kyle Yomitz. Thanks for joining us all week long here from Radio Row in Indianapolis. This has been the Draft show presented by Miller Lite, the only beer of the Dallas Cowboys. We will see you on Tuesday and the Dallas Cowboys Football Club.

[A]

Get almost anything you need delivered with UberEats. What do we mean by almost? Well, you can't get a well groomed lawn delivered, but you can get a chicken parm delivered. A Little escape? No. A delicious bowl of grapes? Yes. Yes, that. An afternoon stroll? Sorry, no. A burrito bowl? Happily, yes. A day of sunshine? No. A box of fine wines? Yes. Uber Eats can definitely get you that. Get almost almost anything delivered with Uber Eats. Order now. Alcohol and select markets. Product availability may vary by region. See app for details. Get almost almost anything delivered with Uber Eats. Order now.