Draft Show: Preparing for Battle

Summary

The Draft Show: Preparing for Battle

Date: January 22, 2026
Hosts: Voch Lombardi, Nick Harris, Tommy Yarish, Kyle Yeomans
Location: SWBC Studios at The Star in Frisco
Theme: Senior Bowl Preview, Shrine Bowl Recap, Key 2025 Draft Prospect Debates

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Episode Overview

With 91 days until the 2025 NFL Draft, the Draft Show crew gears up for draft season’s biggest pre-draft events: the Shrine Bowl and the (newly branded) Panini Senior Bowl. The show features in-depth analysis of quarterback throw sessions, heated debates over edge rushers, initial breakdowns of offensive tackle prospects, and answers to fan questions about linebackers and first-round targets for the Dallas Cowboys. Throughout, the team emphasizes blending analytics with “old-school” film study—and does plenty of on-air homework to back up their strong takes.

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Key Segments and Insights

Senior Bowl and Data Analytics at the Shrine Bowl

[04:12–11:57]

• Throwing Session Takeaways: Tommy Yarish reports on a quarterback showcase at the Shrine Bowl, where advanced analytics—including spin rate and spiral efficiency—were tracked by Wilson’s smart footballs.

  • Quarterbacks mentioned: Cade Klubnik (Clemson), Kyron Drones (Virginia Tech), Haynes King (Georgia Tech), Mark Gronowski (South Dakota State), Jalon Daniels (Kansas), Baron Morton.
  • Notable quote:
    “Haynes King had the most consistent spin rate with spin efficiency of all quarterbacks.” – Tommy Yarish [05:00]
  • The hosts liken analytics gathering to MLB bullpen sessions, but emphasize that throw sessions "on air" with no defense are just data points—not deal-breakers or makers.

• Throwing Mechanics Deep Dive:

  • Nick Harris details Haynes King's high-armed, old-school mechanics, comparing him to John Elway, with efficiency stats to back it up.
  • Quote:
    “He was born 40 years too late… if he was in the 1986 draft, he’d be the number one overall pick.” – Nick Harris [07:48]

• Film vs. Analytics:

  • Voch Lombardi challenges the over-reliance on minute data, reminding listeners of the importance of raw film and playmaking over perfect numbers.
  • Quote:
    "At some point, we just have to get back to film and go: the film checks out, as opposed to somebody’s analytics." – Voch Lombardi [11:57]

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Senior Bowl Edge Rusher Preview

[13:39–23:03]

• Edge Rusher Prospects to Watch:

  • Ruben Bain, David Bailey—top billing, but focus goes to "one-plan" guys who can rise or fall with one-on-one drills.
  • Voch’s Watchlist:
    • Mello Height (Texas Tech): Standout, potential late 1st-round riser.
    • Gabe Jacquez (Illinois), TJ Parker (Clemson), Zion Young (Missouri), Dani Dennis-Sutton (Penn State): All “run down the middle” types needing to prove they have real pass rush plans and counters.
  • Quote:
    “Right now, let me just say: Mello Height, pass rusher from Texas Tech… might work himself into the end of first round talk by whooping feet versus these guys.” – Voch Lombardi [14:05]

• Development and Planning:

  • The crew describes how Senior Bowl one-on-ones expose both edge rushers and O-linemen who succeed mostly on size and strength at the college level, pushing the need for technique and multiple rush moves.
  • “If you ain’t got a plan in the league, they got moves to latch onto you and make you stop moving.” – Voch Lombardi [15:55]

• Prospect Grades:

  • Dani Dennis-Sutton: 3rd-round grade due to lack of mental processing after initial contact.
  • Praise for chop/rip/second-move rushers like Mesidor (Miami), Ruben Bain, David Bailey.

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Twitter on the 20 – Listener Mailbag

[27:16–46:08]

• Sonny Styles (Ohio State) at Linebacker:

  • Versatile, “safety-turned-linebacker” compared with DeMarvion Overshown.
  • “I think he’d be a really good player along with Overshown… together would bring a lot of speed to the table.” – Tommy Yarish [29:13]
  • Debate: Is Styles a WILL or MIKE? Consensus: on Dallas’s roster, he'd have to anchor the middle (MIKE).

• Cowboys’ Worst-Case Draft Wipeout:

  • If Reuben Bain, Jeremiah Love, Caleb Downs, Sonny Styles, CJ Allen, and others are gone, who would be the pick?
  • Voch likes best-available wide receiver (Jordan Tyson, Brandon Inniss, Lemon).
    • “I'd rather take the best receiver on the board than the fifth rusher just because you need a pass rusher.” – Voch Lombardi [34:19]
  • Corners like Mansoor Delane (LSU) and McCoy (if healthy) in play.

• Cornerback Scenario:

  • Mansoor Delane (LSU) seen as a premier, versatile option; fits needs with new DC search focusing on secondary specialists.

• Edge/Pass Rusher – Cassius Howell (Texas A&M):

  • Debate: Is he second-tier or top-12 worthy?
    • Nick Harris: “The highs of Cassius Howell are some of the best in the class…but he has some of the lowest lows. There are just games where he disappears.” [37:58]
    • Tommy Yarish: Likes tape study, sees limitations against long-armed tackles, thinks he’s mid-second tier.
    • Voch (after on-air homework): Impressed by Howell’s flashes against elite OT Trevor Goosby, emphasizes value of going up against top competition over stat lines. [53:16–54:13]

• Other Edge Prospects:

  • R Mason Thomas (Oklahoma), Keldric Faulk (Auburn) are highlighted as high-motor, versatile “second-round swing” types.

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Senior Bowl Offensive Tackle Preview

[56:26–62:21]

• Top Tackles to Watch:

  • Jennings Dunker (Iowa): Classic Iowa run blocker, possibly destined to move inside to guard.
  • Isaiah Worell (Oregon): Athletic, tall (6'8"), but needs technique refinement, often high/overextends, late-season struggles.
  • Max Iheanachor (Arizona State): Impressive footwork, big body, one to watch in isolation drills.
  • J.C. Davis (Illinois): Strong, probably more guard projection.
  • Kage Casey (Boise State): Good in pass pro, Power Four competition a test.
  • Trey Zuhn (Texas A&M): Captain, played with confidence, late-round prospect.
  • Quote:
    “If he’s at tackle and David Bailey’s across from him at practice…it could probably get terrible for Dunker there.” – Voch Lombardi [58:13]

• Importance of Facing Top Competition:

  • “Even if you lose versus one of the best guys, I want to see that you went against those guys. Then I’ll grade you from there.” – Voch Lombardi [55:37]

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Analytics vs. Film
  “I wonder how often do we just look at the film and go, alright, I like the film… At some point, we just have to get back to film.” – Voch Lombardi [11:57]
• On Edge Rusher Evaluation
  “If you ain’t got a plan in the league, dog, they got moves to latch onto you and make you stop moving.” – Voch Lombardi [15:55]
• On Haynes King’s Mechanics
  “He brings it so high up and then just brings it down. It’s like he's John Elway… If he was in the 1986 draft, he’d be the number one overall pick.” – Nick Harris [07:48]
• On Facing Top-Flight Tackles
  “I would rather you lose versus top talent than for you to not play against the top talent at all.” – Voch Lombardi [54:13]
• On Best-Available Philosophy
  “I'd rather take the best receiver on the board than the fifth rusher just because you need a pass rusher.” – Voch Lombardi [34:19]

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Timestamps for Key Segments

• **[04:12] Shrine Bowl throw session analytics breakdown
• [06:41] Value and limits of quarterback analytics
• [11:57] Film study over analytics commentary
• [14:05] Senior Bowl edge rushers, “one-plan” types to watch
• [27:16] Listener mailbag begins: Sonny Styles LB fit
• [34:02] Wrapping Cowboys draft wipeout scenario, WR/CB debate
• [37:58] Cassius Howell edge debate
• [53:16] Live tape review: Howell vs. Texas OT Goosby
• [56:26] Offensive tackle preview: Dunker, Worell, others
• [60:18] Max Iheanachor footwork discussion
• [62:27] Final thoughts, prepping for Mobile

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Tone and Style

• Conversational, deeply knowledgeable, and authentic—with irreverent asides, playful jabs, and on-air tape study amid passionate debates.

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Summary Takeaway

This episode provides a deep, nuanced look at how the Cowboys' draft team is preparing for the Senior Bowl and Shrine Bowl, with a strong focus on how prospects’ technique, film, and live competition reveal more than pure analytics. The hosts’ willingness to challenge each other, back up their takes with homework, and pivot based on new info makes this an essential listen for draft junkies seeking a real edge on this year’s class.

Transcript

[A]

Lowe's Nose.

[B]

Sundays are for football, so tackle your home improvement projects by Saturday and earn your Sunday with great deals on LG and Bosch appliances, Select Bounty and Swiffer cleaning products and more. Then once your to do list is done, get ready to kick back, relax and enjoy the game. Shop in store online now and earn your Sunday with help from Lowe's official partner of the NFL. This is the Dallas Cowboys.com draft show.

[A]

Your war room for insider news and.

[B]

Draft analysis from deep within the confines of Cowboys headquarters at the Star and Frisco.

[A]

Now your hosts, Vach Lombardi, Nick Harris, Bobby Belt, Tommy Yarish and Kyle Yeomans.

[C]

Foreign.

[B]

Today is Thursday, January 22nd and we are 91 days away from the NFL Draft in Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania. Welcome in to the Draft show presented by Miller Lite, the only beer of the Dallas Cowboys here from the SWBC studios at the Star and Frisco with Fotch Lombardi, Nick Harris, Tommy Yarish, Chris Beam in the back. I'm Kyle Yeoman. So glad you're with us. It is officially Senior bowl preview time. Our final show until we are boots on the ground down in Mobile, Alabama for the Panini Senior Bowl 2026. That still doesn't necessarily feel right.

[C]

It doesn't, especially for a gentleman like myself who is obsessed with the former candy that used to own naming rights. I don't know if we're allowed to say the name because it sponsors the reasons, but I will miss that portion of it. The backpacks they had last year, it was like that candy with a bite taken out of it. I would have stolen them from one of the players because I liked it so much.

[D]

Maybe they'll have like hand pressed paninis for.

[B]

That'd be nice that if it was actually a food sponsor. Maybe it's a. It's a card brand, but maybe they'll.

[D]

Have hand pressed panini.

[B]

You just want to maybe dive into it a little bit.

[D]

Yeah, why not? Why not?

[B]

No, vod, you're not a panini guy.

[A]

What?

[B]

That is a panini. Yeah, it's a sandwich. It's like a hot pressed sandwich.

[C]

You've had a panini, you've had it. There's 100%.

[A]

I'm from Mississippi. Have you ever eaten a raccoon?

[D]

Because this is a Cajun thing too.

[A]

Have you ever eaten a raccoon before?

[D]

I have, yeah. I'm from East Texas.

[A]

Oh, I know Tommy hadn't eaten a raccoon.

[C]

I absolutely have not.

[A]

I ain't never had one.

[B]

What do they sell Them at a bunch of places.

[D]

Places we can't say on. I'll tell you in the break.

[A]

Yeah, okay.

[B]

There's a couple good spots.

[A]

I'll have a panini one day. What kind of meat on there?

[B]

Oh, you're missing anything.

[D]

Yeah, anything you want. You can put raccoon on there.

[A]

So what makes it a panini? Like, what makes it.

[D]

It's like hard pressed.

[C]

There's a press. Put the sandwich. It's kind of like a toaster almost.

[A]

So when I was poor, I had this George Foreman grilled cheese maker. Does that make it a panini?

[C]

More or less.

[B]

Sure.

[C]

That's pretty much.

[B]

I mean, you're getting close to it there.

[A]

Look. So I. I've had a salon.

[B]

You notice how he said when I was poor, like back in the day.

[D]

I didn't notice that I had.

[B]

See the slight flex there was last.

[C]

Long ago.

[A]

I ate that sandwich last.

[B]

It was like three nights ago. Yeah, you're missing out. And by the way, your mention of raccoon somewhere. Xavier Legette is smiling. Former South Carolina draft show prospect.

[A]

Cooking low, slow and brazen and put it in some stew. Put in tacos if you want.

[B]

He is smiling somewhere about the raccoons being mentioned.

[A]

Yeah, man. Old cool man up on it.

[D]

Apparently it's a bit.

[A]

Is like he.

[B]

Yeah, his accent is apparently.

[D]

It's fake. Yeah.

[A]

That's not a fake accent.

[B]

No.

[D]

There's videos of him as like South Carolina talking completely normal.

[A]

Like who?

[D]

Like normal? Just like a normal.

[B]

He's got a southern accent, but it's not what it is.

[A]

David, again, talking like me or talking like you? Talking like it. Talk like you. I feel lied to.

[B]

Careful here.

[A]

Yeah, but if he's talking like me. Yeah.

[D]

There's a lot of trip wires right here.

[A]

I can see him making improvements.

[D]

Talking like. Talking like his voice would not be part of his character or part of his identity because it's very much a part of his identity now. I get it. Hey, man, more power to him.

[A]

I got a lot of videos. I got a lot of videos because I think back that dude research. That dude talks like my uncles. I'm just. There you go.

[B]

All right, let's dive into a couple of these Senior bowl guys. We talked a little more in depth about some of the Shrine bowl players that. That we were excited to see going into this weekend. And of course, practice. Full practice starts tomorrow. Tommy, you got a chance to go out there this morning. We. We poked over to the Ford center and got a chance to take a look at some of the throwing session, it was mostly on air. There weren't any DBs or anything crazy. But what did you see on that one?

[C]

Yeah, it was all on air, so it's nothing that you're going to necessarily a big chunk away from. And. But, you know, this is. There's some quarterbacks in this group from the Shrine bowl that we were talking about on our earlier show. Kade Klubnick from Clemson, Austin Westlake native. Kyron Drones from Virginia Tech was there. Haynes King from Georgia Tech was there. Mark Granowski, Nick, I know you were talking about him from Iowa. So they were like. Like you said, just a couple routes on air. They didn't really get into too much depth. It was really two throws per quarterback, and then they'd kind of move on out of there. The. The interesting thing that they did was the. The balls were using had chips in them and they attached these little chips to the quarterback so you could measure different analytics of, you know, how many. The spin rate on these throws and then how efficient that spin was. So tight spirals versus ducks or balls that are kind of going all over the place. So from the three quarterbacks that they put up on this big screen, they did a presentation afterwards. Haynes King had the most consistent spin rate with spin efficiency of all the quarterbacks. So his kind of dots were all merged together towards the top. Jalen Daniels from Kansas, the quarterback was also in a pretty good spot. And then Baron Morton was another quarterback they had out there. He had a higher spin rate, but a little bit lower spin efficiency. So it was interesting is if you're. If your spin rate is high and your efficiency is high, you're throwing tight spirals and they're. You get good velocity on them. That was my understanding.

[B]

It was like the efficiency of the throw itself.

[C]

Exactly.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

On air.

[C]

Fall on air. So again, you take this.

[B]

It's like throwing a bullpen.

[D]

Okay.

[C]

Yeah, yeah. You're essentially just throwing bullpen, getting warm for a quarterback.

[B]

So for those that are not baseball savants, throwing a bullpen, you get a lot of these analytics on spin rate and break and things like that to where you can measure that in practice and then attribute that to certain strategies in the game. So it's something similar to that. But now it's a football situation where you're throwing down the field.

[C]

So does it say I've ever learned about that? Does it mean a whole lot? No, I was just sharing my observations.

[B]

It is interesting. It was all. Wilson was the brand that did it all, and they were they were, they had smart footballs with the chips in it and they had all the analytics and they had all these data points back and forth of where certain quarterbacks were and things like that. So it's just another element and we've talked about information gathering right on this show before where you trust the film, you trust what they've done in the game. V, you're, you're big on that. But then you piece together some of the analytics and some of the extra stats. This is just another data point for you to piece together on your, your stuff. Do teams really put a whole lot of stock into this yet?

[D]

Maybe.

[B]

It depends on the team probably. Then there are other teams that probably disregard it entirely.

[D]

So you mentioned Haynes King had the highest spin rate, efficiency, all this?

[A]

Yes.

[C]

Of the group that they selected, they only selected four quarterbacks. So of that group, I think that's.

[D]

Fascinating because I was watching some of your videos from Haynes King this morning and this has always been a take I've had about Haynes King. He was born 40 years too late because he has this mechanic to where if we can see it on the.

[B]

Camera here, get into it, Nick.

[D]

He brings it so high up and then just brings it down and it's like he's, it's like he's John Elway. If he was in the 1986 draft, he'd be the number one overall pick.

[C]

Huh.

[D]

But he's in the 2026 over NFL draft, so it's, it's a completely different scenario. Just go back and watch Haynes King's mechanics. You'll understand what I'm saying. He brings it so high up like these old quarterbacks and then just kind of flings it down. So it's fascinating that he has the high spin rate, the high spin efficiency, whatever this new term I just learned is because it, it, it translates to more zip for him. I, I, I, I guess at the.

[C]

End of the day. Yeah, he, he had the most above of that top line. There we go.

[B]

That is perfect.

[C]

Oh my God.

[B]

That, I mean it is during him, his time at. I'll give credit to the photo here in a second, but I just looked it up on Google. I said Haynes King throwing motion and that was the first photo that came.

[A]

Out that was perfect.

[C]

He had the most, he and Jalen Daniels had the most dots towards the top of that spiral efficiency in terms of 100% spiral efficiency. And his were more. When you look at this, I'm trying to see, okay, is it more clustered together in the same spot to Be consistent as opposed to okay, you're all over the place and you've got some dots here or some knots there. His was the most consistent in one area. Typically around 600 RPM in terms of rotations per minute and then spiral efficiency percentage towards the top. I sound like such a nerd here.

[B]

Yeah, you really do.

[C]

It's great.

[B]

I like it.

[A]

I was saying that, man, I was going to.

[C]

This is what I got glasses for.

[B]

The credit to that photo, Barstool was the one that tweeted it, but it's the first reply underneath.

[A]

Barstool.

[D]

Well known sports photographer.

[B]

Yeah, you know they've got it rolling over there. The, the first reply under it says Haynes King with that Disney channel throwing motion. Yes, it is goofy looking but he's efficient with it and he finds a way to get it done. There are multiple photos of this too. Like it's like the entire Google images just search sheet. It's all way high up there.

[D]

It's kind of the tip of the iceberg from his game being so old school. He is an old school quarterback. Not only the throwing motion but the toughness. Going into Texas A and M, his first stop in his career, he had never been in a huddle before. At Longview High School in East Texas he was going to the sideline to take the call from his dad coach every single play. And so he'd never been in a huddle before. He had to learn those things before he even got settled in. It's, it's, it's fascinating.

[B]

There's a player like that fit in the current day.

[D]

No, but he can, he can be in a huddle now. But I, I mean, I mean like.

[B]

Just the old school quarterback and the old school not mindset because like you.

[D]

Said it's different that TO is going to translate. I don't know how. I don't, I don't know if he's a starter. He's probably not. But he's going to be a tough, he's going to be a tough backup for somebody in this league.

[B]

Vox, have you ever taken stock just in your years of covering the NFL draft of guys that go to a program, let's say like Georgia Tech, who has seen very seldom success. They haven't had a historic type of run in God knows how long and then he shows up and they end up winning. He takes a program and helps them win at the quarterback position. We've seen it even in house with a guy. Dak Prout showed up at Mississippi State, hadn't Had a ton of success, wasn't a high draft prospect, but goes in the fourth round, ends up with the franchise. And as the franchise quarterback, you put any kind of stock into that when you do your research?

[A]

Yeah, man. I mean, think about Cam Newton at Auburn, you know what I mean? It was him and Nick Fairly, you know what I mean? So you got to go like, all right, this dude is responsible for the best football team in the country on offense. And then Nick just kind of the best defensive player in the country. Like, that's all they're doing. So you have to look at Cam versus who else? Was it like, Jake, who was the quarterback that was up there with Cam Newton? He went to the Titans or something like that. I forgot his name, but it was Jake Locker. Jake Locker. Thank you. Jake Locker hadn't pulled people out of obscurity like Cam Newton has, You know what I'm saying? Now what we have to do is. I was actually having this conversation with some of my friends. We've gotten so deep into analytics now to where we're breaking down every little thing. I wonder how often do we just look at the film and go, all right, I like the film.

[B]

He can play.

[A]

Like, the analytics may not be matching up. You know what this. What this player does. And there's many examples you can go to. Somebody may not run routes well, but they're physically like, George. George Pickens doesn't run the greatest route. Tree look like he jogging out there, but he's separated. He's super efficient. You know what I mean? I think at some point, we just have to get back to film and just go, well, hey, the film checks out, as opposed to somebody's analytics. And just watching Cam Newton's film is the first thing that just pops up in my mind, like, hey, man, this dude ain't got the best mechanics in world.

[C]

The.

[A]

The world. He just beating the hell out of all these other teams. You know what I mean? I think that matters.

[D]

Speaking of incredible country accents, go listen to Haynes King Country. Yeah, country as hell.

[A]

Where you from?

[B]

East Texas, I guess. Longview. Longview. Lobos.

[C]

All right.

[B]

Anything else you want to add from the throwing session today?

[C]

No, I don't think there really was that much. I. I really enjoyed explaining the rotations portion of it.

[A]

But this was senior or this was today. The whole time.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

We are going to go into Senior bowl here momentarily.

[A]

Oh, yeah. Hey, scheming. He going to do. He going to be good.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

I take. I take very little from that. Yeah. Throwing session this morning.

[B]

That sounded like you took quite a bit.

[C]

No, I was, I was just explaining our statistical findings that, that we got from our fantastic presentation we talked about on air.

[B]

Yeah, we talked about this. This starting five, this rotation, role players and what we all bring to the table. Now we know our analytics guy. His name is Tommy Yarish.

[C]

Tomas, I'm going to spin my laptop at him.

[D]

Please do it on air. I just wanted to make. I just wanted to emphasize that it was on air.

[B]

All right. Who is your favorite overall draft prospect that's going to be in Mobile for the Senior bowl coming up next week?

[D]

I feel like there is a right answer here.

[B]

There is probably a right answer. It's probably the latest name to be added to the list. It's Ruben Bain.

[D]

David Bailey.

[B]

It's going to be one of them. Yeah.

[C]

David Bailey. For me, this edge rushers are going.

[B]

To be fun next week.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Is outside of Bane and Bailey, what edge rushers do you have your eyes on in Mobile? Because it always seems to be one or two guys from the Senior bowl that end up being a big storyline that aren't necessarily the number one and number two guys going in.

[A]

Kyle, I tell you what, man, tell me it's going to be one cat in particular that I'm looking for him to make money and then it's going to be like five or six other guys that fit this archetype to where I'm not sure who they are as pass rushers and I'm trying to see what they look like in a one on one situation. So right now let me just say mellow height pass rusher from Texas Tech. I think he's going. I think he's going to be phenomenal. I think he about to beat the hell out of all these tackles and you may be projecting him as like a second round type talent. Right now. I think he has an opportunity to work himself into the end of the first round convo just by showing up and whooping feet versus these guys. Did anybody have a comment about mellow hype before I say some mean things about these next few passwords?

[D]

Go ahead, Go ahead.

[A]

So Gabe jockes from Illinois.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

Now he's kind of one of these. I'm good versus the run. I'm a good looking athlete, but I don't really know how to pass rush. For real.

[D]

For real.

[A]

I'm looking for him to show me something pass rush wise. Right. I got like a 3, 4 type grade on him or whatever. But if he doesn't show me anything in these drills or whatever. I'm going to bunch him all in the same categories as these other guys. TJ Parker from Clemson is another one. You look like you don't really have a plan when you out there pass rushing, right? So let's see if some of these coaches be like, hey, big man, have a plan. Do this with your hands. Do this, do this. Just to see what he could take coaching wise from it. But if he doesn't show that he can do some decent things one on one, then I'll be like, all right, well, T.J. parker, you gonna move down my board. Zion Young from Missouri is another guy like that. Big as hell, strong as hell. Probably got some pass rush stuff going on as far as I got hurries and all this. But he's a run down the Millie you got. He's not really. I have a plan when I pass rush guy. So I'm looking at all these I don't have a plan guys. Danny, Dennis Sutton, Penn State, he don't have a plan when he's rushing. I want to see if these guys can elevate as pass rush. You have something, Nick.

[B]

So just real quickly, you mentioned Danny, Dennis Sutton there. Somebody did ask a Twitter on the 20 question, but since you brought where do you have him kind of slated in the early going.

[A]

Danny didn't sudden on my board. I got a three on him. He way into the threes for me because I think he's. He's. These guys are going to look the part. Yeah, he's going to look the part as far as the length, size, weight and all this kind of stuff. But when I see him, I don't see a player that the mental side has caught up to his physical. Now, some of these dudes, they just bigger than everybody and they make plays because they're bigger than everybody. But I want to see you stack, extend and find the football and not run down the middle of somebody and not look around. You know what I if you get caught up in a passing situation, I want to see you do an arm over, get caught, then counter back the other way. I see people get hands on Dennis Sutton, Parker, Jacques, and they just stay blocked because they haven't thought about getting off the block. We look at Mezador, for example, I don't know what he's going to do from Miami. Mezador is like, I'm going to make you put your hand up high so I can dip up under and if you catch me, there's another move coming here. There's a rip over. If you try to grab me there, but I'm also paying attention to the run. There's versatility there, there's Versat and there's three backup plans for what he does. Reuben Baines, the same. David Bailey got two backup plans in him. I'm talking about these guys that just run down the middle of people and maybe your pass rush numbers would look better if you had a plan. Those are the guys I'm looking for and I think Danny, Danny Sutton got some of that in them.

[B]

Is that the type of stuff that's going to get exposed when you get into those one on ones every single time? Because you'll see that from offensive lineman perspective too where they don't have the hand placement and you're one on one. You are an island. You're not on an island, you are the island. That is it. That's all you got on one on ones. I feel like the same can be said for edge rushers. If you don't go ready with a plan in a one on one setting. How can you anticipate that from somebody in a game setting?

[D]

Yeah, for sure. And these camp settings are always so important to identify that, whether it be for the tackle or for the dn. One thing I want to add on TJ Parker, yes, I agree with you, but violent, the violence does, does pop off, especially in 2024. It popped off a lot more. I feel like I'm going to say this about every single Clemson prospect in this draft. Peter woods, defensive tackle is going to be another one. I said that about Klub a couple days ago. But you go back and you look at that tape from 24 and you just see violence, violence and you see some of it in 25. Don't get me wrong, but I think there's probably a lot of truth in what Vach is saying, is that probably the lack of development, the lack of planning probably caught up to him there, especially from a pass rush perspective.

[A]

You said it way nicer than me. I just made it sound like he can't play. Look, TJ park is fine, but I just see some mocks or some boards that have him in the 16, 15, 20 range. That's just a little high for me. Me personally, that's a little high for me. I think he's going to be in the round two, round three conversation. He'll fit just fine in there.

[C]

Yeah, I think how sound he is technically, I'm talking about Parker from Clemson. I think is technically sound but you know, and he's got that violent punch at the start, like you said, is his get off, I think is better than people give him credit for. After that, though, I feel like he kind of. You feel like he kind of glides just into his rush. And like you said, maybe not as much of a plan, but.

[A]

Sure.

[C]

It just. I don't. I don't know if he necessarily attacks it as much as I'd like it to. Sure, you can. Still, two things can be true. You can be violent at the jump, but it seems to me like he's content to just glide into it. And I don't know if he's, you know, this mega athlete that's going to just run right past you as in terms of speed guy, but I feel like he was. He was good at setting the edge in the run game. He can drop back in coverage, cover the flats better than some of your guys playing off the edge. How good he was producing turnovers in his sophomore year. In and out, just sacks. But turning the ball over was encouraging. But then, you know, this past year, obviously, like you had said, Nick, it seems like everybody on Clemson's defense took a step back and who knows why. But yeah, I've got. I've got a third on him as well. So it will be interesting to see if he does something to change that up. I'm looking forward to seeing. Excuse me real quick, Dennis Sutton from. From Penn State, like, because I know you well, I know Nick had. I've watched a little bit. I watched the bowl game with him and he had a good game, but then again, that's. It's a bowl game, so sometimes you're down. But I know you had a good evaluation a couple weeks ago.

[A]

Tommy, I think what you seeing is I've been strong my whole life. So now in some of these situations, I may start off violent and explosive and somebody latches onto me. I just can't be strong with everybody. And I think that's something that doesn't translate to the league level, right to where everybody's strong, everybody's strong, everybody's better than you thought. Perfect example. Don Vanessa. Rocco, right, Sack Merchant. But his three sacks versus Pittsburgh, versus Week one, Jordan Myallotta. Go get him, player. You know what I mean? You gotta do stuff. You gotta have a plan. And Domino's Araku is a player that notoriously has a plan. He won them three playing people, man. If you ain't got a plan in the league, dog, they got moves to latch onto you and make you stop moving. Danny. Dennis Sutton, no matter how strong he Is versus some of these other guys and TJ Parker and Zion Young. It ain't gonna be like that in the league level. So now what we can go is, well, is it gonna look like that in an All Star game? Because there's some offensive linemen in here that are, that are, that are gonna be pros. So can you run down the middle of somebody and just be more powerful than somebody in the All Star game?

[B]

I don't think you can one name that. I do want to hear more about that. I don't know if, forgive me if we have mentioned him in depth, but LT Overton from Alabama, he's another one. He's another one of those guys that's up at the top that could make some money or lose some money just because he looks the part, had the production. What do you think about LT Overton?

[A]

I think same thing.

[D]

Physical skills, athletic, but yeah, probably lack of development there.

[B]

He's a 1:1 playing guy. Is that what we're calling these guys?

[A]

1:1 playing guy?

[B]

1 plan.

[A]

One plan?

[B]

Yeah, one plan.

[A]

Got one plan. Their plan is I'm gonna get off the line scrimmage and be more talented than you. That ain't gonna always work. And it may have worked for Overton when he was an A and M. When he A and M. A and.

[B]

M. Yeah, he go.

[A]

He goes Alabama. I don't know what happens to him, but his, his plan started going backwards and he just started running down the middle or just trying to long arm people because he does have long arms.

[B]

But he's got a great frame.

[A]

Great frame. He looks. All these guys look great, but it doesn't always come together. You're just not going to see these guys. In my personal opinion, you're not going to see them do great. Not having a plan. Somebody that would do great. Derrick Moore from Michigan, bursty upfield player, got plans. He might go into the third or fourth round or something like that. Not much of a rundown guy, but just pass rusher, bendy, explosive. He's either going to hit you with a spin to the outside, a nasty little rip to the outside, a spin to the inside, a rip to the outside, or just a nasty bend the corner flatten on you. Like he got three moves. He ain't got like a whole tool belt like some of these other guys. But he's a guy that at least has a plan. And maybe it's cause he's a smaller guy, right? If you a smaller guy, you got a plan for a big guy not touching you Maybe that doesn't always like connect for some of the bigger rushers or whatever, but that's just some names I've been watching.

[D]

LT Overton is one of the younger guys in the class. He'll be 21 when the season starts. You know, I think teams will factor that in. But, but that athleticism, someone's going to take a, someone's going to take a gamble on that. I want to see how that athleticism translates in this environment though. Yeah, the tackle class is obviously not up to the edge group, but I think there still are going to be some tackles that are going to be pretty, pretty stiff competition for these guys.

[B]

Let's talk about those guys in the third segment. Kind of give that, that two sided context for those that are going to watch the videos on social media and kind of get to know what those one on one results are going to look like. May have some context to dive into that as well. We heard the edge rushers there. We'll hear offensive tackle side coming up in the third segment. But when we come back here on the draft show, we're going to get into some Twitter on the 20. Some really good questions already lined up for this one. More of the draft show presented by Miller Light right after this.

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Cowboys this is the Dallas Cowboys.com draft show back here on the Draft show presented by Miller Light, the only beer of the Dallas Cowboys with Vach Lombardi, Nick Harris, Tommy Yarish, I'm Kyle Yeomans. Chris Beam is in the back ready for some Twitter on the 20.

[C]

There we go.

[B]

Sean gets us started today. He wants to learn about the Linebackers a little bit here. What would Sonny Styles out of Ohio State bring to the team if paired with one demarvi and Overshone at the linebacker spot? And who do the two players compare? And what is something Styles brings that they do not have on the defensive side of the ball?

[A]

Let me ask y', all, this for y'. All. Get started. Sonny Styles, a Will or a mic for y'?

[B]

All.

[D]

Yes.

[B]

Yeah, I was about to say he could play both.

[A]

Either one.

[D]

Yes.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

What would you put him?

[D]

I would put him at Mike. I think I would, too, specifically. And let Overshone on this roster.

[A]

On this roster. I think he has to play Mike on this roster. I think there's a world where he's a much better Will guy.

[D]

I could see that, but just not.

[B]

In Dallas, because you got Overshone here.

[A]

If Overshone wasn't here, then I'd have Styles as my.

[B]

Well, and you also don't necessarily have a mic that you really trust.

[A]

That's the problem. That's the problem. So here he'll be a mic, but yeah. Cool. Go ahead.

[C]

I think they're very similar in the sense of. Of their background. Both former safeties that moved to linebacker. Both very good athletes. I think Overshown has more burst. That's been evident with his days back at Texas. And now, you know, the big question about him going forward is how much of that is left in the tank after two major knee surgeries. So with Styles, yeah, you can tell the former safety stuff and a lot of the athleticism things that kind of flew off what Overshone had coming out, too. And so that's what them together would bring a lot of speed to the table. Obviously, they can cover a lot of ground. They're rangy, longer guys in terms of their limbs. Longer legs. Longer arms. And you bring up a good point there, Voch. In terms of Mike versus Will. Yes. I think on this roster, I'm with you guys, the Styles that have to be the Mike, because Overshone, like I said, when he's healthy, which he should have a first. Would this be his first full off season if he stays healthy? Talking about demo Cowboys, his first full off season with the Cowboys, where he's.

[B]

Outside of the ones where he got to the preseason and then wasn't able.

[D]

To finish when he got drafted. Yeah, yeah, but I mean, like the full first full one with the team.

[C]

Technically and training camp and all those things. So, yeah, that. That's going to be big for him. In terms of. Okay, how much does he. How much of that Burst, can he find again? And you know, do we, do we see the confidence, that knee begin to build up? And if Styles is the guy, then you're going to see, you know, a lot of the same things in terms of the speed, the ability to, to get into run lanes pretty quickly. They both hit hard for their size. You know, we talk about these athletes that are bigger, quicker, and sometimes with that, you maybe give up a little bit of physicality. I don't see that physicality being given up with Styles. What I see is more of a guy who's still learning to play the position. You still sometimes see, you know, maybe not the best diagnosis or he's not in the right place at the right time, but when he is at the right place at the right time, I still think back to the best play of his that I saw was against Miami in the College Football Playoff. It was early in the game where he got into the backfield. He just throws down. I think it was Mark Fletcher, the running back from Miami, that was trying to get somewhere. And it was like a three yard loss. But the way that he just found his gap, hit it, and brings the running back down, those are the kinds of things that you see more and more on tape with him. And he's learned more and more over the year. And if he gets here and he gets to a spot where he can be developed, I think he'd be a really good player. Along with Overshone, they got sonny listed.

[A]

As 6, 5, 2, 4 to 3. Y' all think that's what he's really gonna weigh out at?

[B]

Probably like 230 plus.

[A]

Yeah, because that makes him bigger.

[C]

Six, five makes sense.

[B]

Yeah. The height is there.

[A]

He's tall. Yeah, he's tall.

[B]

But I, I, yeah, I think it's probably 235, 238, something like that is where we're gonna see.

[A]

Because, you know, just, just when I watch linebackers, I watch a couple of them back to back. So when you watch Styles and then you watch CJ Allen.

[B]

Right.

[A]

You would assume that CJ island like 30 pounds bigger than him.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

But nah, he's allegedly 10 pounds bigger than CJ. I thought Sonny was like slim sort out here, but it's because he's tall. He's just he big as hell.

[B]

I'm a little surprised that you, I just want to clarify. You said Overshone more, more explosive than.

[C]

Sonny Styles when they were coming out. Yes, and that's why I clarified like, like now with the two major knee surgeries, maybe that, that probably isn't the case, but I think so. When, when they were coming out, I think Overshone was the quicker guy. Is that, am I wrong on that?

[B]

Yeah. What do you think on that one, Nick?

[D]

No, I, I, I like Overshown's athleticism all the way around. I think Sonny certainly has it too, though.

[B]

But I mean, Overshone was never in first round conversations.

[D]

No, no, no. But from a pursuit standpoint, there's few better than Overshone, in my opinion.

[B]

I'm just curious.

[D]

Yeah, yeah.

[B]

When it comes to Sonny Styles, you talked about playing the will. Is there an ability here with a veteran Mike that you'd feel comfortable putting him at the will? And then in a rotation with Overshot, it's Kenneth Murray. No, stop it. The bit continues.

[A]

No, it's just made everybody mad.

[B]

Somebody just turned off their laptop.

[D]

Tomatoes.

[A]

One of the knocks I had on him is, you know, I just didn't like how he got caught up in the wash of the offensive line. Sometimes he just, he looks small and, you know what I mean, some of those deals or whatever. But if you have a D line that's going to keep him clean or a scheme that's going to make it to where he doesn't have to deal with those guys, then fine. If he's in a Eber flu system where like, all right, you just responsible for BGAP and whoever's in there, I just don't know if that's going to fit him all that well. You know what I mean? But if he's in a, a system where he can be free, I think just Will linebacker running around is probably what's best for him. But I think, son, it'd be cool that Mike if he's here.

[B]

Okay. A Ron says I don't do Twitter, but the draft question for the show, he actually sent this as a DM said, what if you get wiped out with no Reuben Bain from Miami, no Jeremiah Love from Notre Dame, no Caleb Downs from Ohio State, which is already being mocked. And you can't trade down because you can't find a trade partner. So let's play wipeout scenario. Early on, who is the pick?

[D]

Sonny Styles.

[B]

I think it would be right.

[D]

You would need to throw Sonny. Let's throw Sonny Styles in this mix for the sake of.

[B]

Okay, take Sonny Styles out and CJ.

[A]

Allen one of the corners, Delaine.

[B]

Or if you're Delane out of lsu.

[D]

Delaine is probably where I would lean.

[A]

Or if you like McCoy, go McCoy.

[D]

You can't do McCoy on this roster.

[C]

I Wouldn't do.

[A]

Sound like Mendoza gonna be there with all the damn people. He say, who, Who. Who got. Who got left off?

[B]

You said who got.

[A]

Everybody.

[B]

Yeah, he said bane love downs. And we're throwing Styles and Allen into the mix just for fun.

[A]

If the offensive linemen are going. I'm not afraid to go receiver. I'm not afraid to go receiver. I like Jordan Tyson a lot. Tate's cool. Taste my third guy.

[B]

Tyson out of Arizona State.

[A]

Tyson out of Arizona State, out of Ohio State. Or Lemon from usc. I like Lemon and I like.

[B]

Lemon's more of a slot only guy, right? He could be kind of smaller everywhere.

[A]

But he more than likely is going to be.

[B]

He's not a gadget guy. He's a pure wide receiver. But they're just going to throw him.

[A]

On the run routes. Yak guy. Yeah, that's what I like. Run routes, yak guy. And that's what I like about them. And I think if you really like, pin down the situation, I would rather take the best receiver on the board than the fifth rusher that you have just because you need a pass rusher or the second linebacker that'll probably go in the third is.

[B]

Or something.

[C]

David Bailey wasn't on that list, was he?

[B]

Yeah, he was not on that. Okay, let's take David Bailey out of the.

[A]

We said we got wiped all of a sudden.

[D]

Definitely have Mendoza now.

[A]

You definitely. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[B]

That's 11 names.

[A]

Yeah, he named 13 people. But. But I think it'll be. It'll be hard to. To. To get wiped out. I just think the big questions come around. Is it styles and what does the team feel about McCoy's name knee? Because if they like McCoy's knee, then McCoy will be the pick. If they think Delane is up there, then it's Delane or his style. So I think that's like 13 dudes if you. If you count offensive line. And I think they'll take offensive line as well.

[B]

Just to add on to this question, I've seen Mansoor Delaine mocked to Dallas a couple times and it's a January mock draft. Keep that in mind. But I've seen it multiple times. Are we not talking about him enough to where the cornerback position is? A very high knee. We have all agreed on that. But are we not talking about the corners enough at what the possibility could be there for Dallas?

[C]

Well, the interesting part of that is when you look at their defensive coordinator search and some of the guys that they've brought in for second interviews, a lot of them have specialized secondary. So you would think that if they go with one of these guys, whether it be a Durante Jones or a Christian Parker or Jim Leonard from Denver, that it's likely going to be guys in the secondary who they feel like they can develop and continue to bolster their roster with. Because, yeah, cornerback is one of the many positions on this defense that needs help. And so I wouldn't be surprised if Mansourt Elaine was the pick at all, whether it be at 12 or at 20. And I wouldn't mind it. I think I have him as the best corner in the draft, and I think McCoy would be higher if he was healthy, but I think he's a good player, and I think he could fit what any of these guys are looking for in terms of, okay, we need a young guy that we can bank on to not. Not turn around the entire secondary, but be part of that. Because this team likes Revel a lot. Savone Revel, the third round pick from last year. And I think those two guys, because you got Revel, who's the taller corner? And then Delaine from LSU is not as big, but just as good in man coverage. Yeah, I think you can work with that.

[D]

Yeah, certainly. Notice he didn't mention Jonathan Gannon. Tommy knows some. Tommy's trying to report over.

[C]

No, no, no.

[B]

Trying to. Trying to lead everybody in one direction.

[C]

Much in the mix.

[A]

Hey, man, we've been asking questions all week. Time. It's all right, man.

[B]

If you had to guess right now, who's the defensive coordinator?

[A]

I say Parker.

[C]

Christian Parker.

[B]

Really say Parker?

[A]

Why y' all say that?

[D]

Watch out for Durante Jones.

[C]

You know what?

[B]

I think Durante Jones is very much so in the comments.

[D]

Watch out for Durante Jones.

[C]

I apologize for admitting Gannon because he also has a defensive background. So. Jonathan. I'm so sorry.

[A]

Jonathan, Man. Would y' all say Gannon is fourth.

[B]

To them out of that mix?

[A]

Yeah. To them.

[C]

Huh.

[B]

It's hard to tell, like, actual order.

[C]

I don't know to them, but to me, he would be fourth.

[A]

Of course, to use. I'm we guessing about that.

[B]

I think I would put them.

[A]

We all say Gan and four. I'd put them third to them.

[B]

Yeah, maybe. We'll see.

[A]

I think they Sickle Weight Mountain.

[B]

So Naomi asked the question. Naomi says, I'm a big fan of Texas A and M. I loved watching Cassius Howe play.

[D]

Not answering this.

[A]

Of course you did.

[B]

Why not?

[D]

Big fan of Texas A and M. Go ahead.

[B]

Oh, sorry. Is Cassius how a Legitimate option for Dallas. Maybe not at 12, but possibly at 20.

[D]

I think it makes a lot of sense at 20, especially if they trade back from that pick at 20 and pick up some extra capital. I think it definitely like a late.

[B]

First round, early second.

[D]

Like I've mentioned a couple of times already, the highs of Cash's how are some of the best in the class. But then when you take like the top six edge rushers, if you take the lowest of the lows of those top top six, Cash as how has some of the lowest lows, there's just games where he disappears. I want to see the consistency, and I don't know if that's something you can prove over the course of a draft process. You have to show it on game film. You know, there was a middle portion of the season where Cassius Howe was put on a milk carton and I want to see the consistency out of him. But the highs, my goodness, they are there.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

Yeah. Three sacks against Utah State. He had two and a half against Mississippi State. Two more against number 20, LSU at that point in time. Then he goes Missouri and South Carolina. So three. Actually four straight. Five straight games. I'm missing these one sack performances. Five straight games where he had a sack and then nothing against Texas, nothing against Miami, nothing against Sanford, which. That's kind of a late game or late season SEC November game. But when you look at his game, what are the highs? You talk about what the. He has some of the highest highs. What are they?

[D]

The bend, the athleticism. I love it. I mean, he, he touches the ground with his left arm with that bend. I mean, it's, it's, it's fascinating. And I think when, if you were to take like a dexterity test of all these edge rushers, he would probably have the highest to this group. But I, it's probably kind of speaking to Vodch's point a little bit. Maybe the plan isn't all the way there. I, I want to see him live in person in this process. I'm going to make my. Make sure I get down to the A and M pro day because I want to see his body type too. I want to see this athleticism on display. Where, where are the parts of his game that are allowing these big stretches where there hasn't been production?

[A]

We're not, I mean, we're not fighting or anything, but I think Cash has got a bunch of. I think Cash has got a lot. I think, I think he's top three in plans. Man, I would have to go Top three. I think he's top three in having a plan Cashes.

[B]

So if you take the, the football plan that you're talking about and you take the high end athleticism and bend that he has here.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Why is he not in the same conversation of Bane and Bailey and, and some of these other top edge rushers?

[A]

So Nick just gave me some homework. I want to look at those games and kind of figure that out where he disappears and look, this ain't me fighting Nick. But Nick has said previously the same thing about Bane though, right? Like Bane kind of got a little stretch. He got a little weird. He did. That makes me want to do some homework about some of these guys and the bad games that they have. So maybe I'll go back and do some film and come back. Not Monday, visit Winter Storm. I mean cool. So Tuesday or something, right? Maybe I'll come back on Tuesday's edition of the draft.

[B]

You got a week, dude. We're in Mobile next week so.

[A]

Man, perfect.

[B]

Yeah, you got all sorts of hard.

[A]

Time next week but we're going to.

[B]

Forget this conversation should ever happen.

[A]

But Nikki is fair. I do think, I do think Cassius will kind of get washed up in a lot of run game stuff too. You know what I mean? Where, where, where the run his. Because sometimes he's really good versus run, sometimes he's not. But just as a, as a pass rushing dude, I think that dude just got a, a whole bushel of stuff that he just can't wait to just pull out and try on people. So I think of him a little higher as a, as a, as a pass rusher. I'm actually trying to of think to myself why wouldn't I take him at 12? Because all these guys kind of got downs and ups, you know what I'm saying? But when we talk about Cash, as we talk about him as a guy that's in the 20s or the late 20s, why not 12? Why not 12? So that's just some more stuff.

[B]

I'm just, that's me playing devil's advocate for you. You're talking about he has the plan. If you're talking about he has the ability. You take away a couple games where he disappears, which for an edge rusher is bound to happen.

[A]

He might be like 18th overall or something. You know what I mean?

[B]

Then maybe we're talking about him in the middle of 2012 and 20 in the middle.

[C]

Yeah, I'll fight you guys on this. Fight it. I wouldn't take him at 12 or 20.

[A]

Wow. Okay.

[B]

Let's go.

[C]

I'm going to project already. I can already see the comments. Oh, of course. The Texas fan doesn't like the kid from Texas. What, what I love about him is he's super smart. You can see how smart he is. He plays as a high motor. I love the intensity. There's that video of him, I think it was against LSU where he's chirping at the left tackle and he's like, you know, I'm, I'm coming to get you. And then he did. And yes, the highs are great. You know, when you finish second in the SEC with sacks 11 and a half. That's incredible. It's what he did and what I, what I noticed in some of those games where he disappears because against Texas he was completely taken out of the game. I don't think I saw him once. That's one of those games for sure in that game. And what was it about Texas? Well, he's get. They've got the bigger tackles. Trevor Goosby on the left side, who didn't come out this year, he came back. But next year is probably going to be one of the best left tackles in the country is when he gets against those bigger long armed guys. I think that's what, that's what hurts him because sometimes I think with his pass rush he has that bend like you said, but sometimes he'll try to long arm guys and extend and I don't think he's got the length in his arm for that. He's listed at 6, 2, 2, 48. And if that's going to be the plan. Bach, you mentioned that he has multiple plans. If that's going to be his first plan, then you better have a really good second, third and fourth plan to get around that. If that's going to be your first thing. And I think that sound like some.

[A]

A and M hating boys.

[C]

No, I have, I have no problem with some of these guys from A and M. I didn't name one, but one from A and M. Yeah. Regis, defensive lineman.

[B]

Okay, good one.

[C]

Albert?

[A]

He don't exist. Who is that? I've heard of him.

[B]

What about, what about like Von Miller?

[A]

That man's made up.

[C]

Casey Concepcion, wide receiver. I think he's fantastic.

[A]

Okay. I think Cash better.

[C]

Very, very glad that he's not coming back next year. But no. So yes, I think there are the highs that you see where it's like, oh man, this guy could be great. But I think the lows are going to translate more to the NFL in terms of you're going to be playing these bigger, stronger tackles. That's going to be harder for you to get around. When he's double teamed, that's even worse. I mean he's just completely nullified because he's not the biggest guy. And for me, if you can't beat double teams, I don't think you can be a top end pass rusher in the NFL. And I don't know, I, I just, I just haven't been as big of a fan without again, I love how smart he is. I love how intense he plays. You can tell the motors there, the bend is great. But I don't, I don't know if the rest of the equation when he does get nullified when you, we talk about those bad games. I don't know if that'll work out.

[D]

So who would you have above him? Bane Bailey.

[C]

I have Mesadore above him from Miami. I have A.R. mason Thomas from Oklahoma above him.

[D]

We haven't talked enough about our Mason Thomas.

[C]

Yeah, I, I think he's a, he's a feisty dude.

[B]

So since you're already it's heldrick folk.

[C]

Auburn is above him and then you.

[A]

Got fog higher than Cash is how Tommy I do.

[B]

I like how you're standing on the table for it. But since we're hating on Texas rivals and you just brought up an Oklahoma guy, our Mason Thomas, tell me yes.

[C]

He guys I'm not a hater at all. He's, he's, he's on the undersized quote unquote as well. But another smart player uses strength that you wouldn't expect from a player his size. Really well, kind of struggle still at times to anchor against those bigger guys when they're pushing up field on him. But as a pass rusher he's quick off the line, fast around the edges, closes in a hurry. I think he's got a really high ceiling if he can build some more strength and hang around some of these bigger players. So he and Howell kind of had that, that same aspect of, you know, they're around the same measurable 62248 for Howell from A&M 62, 249 from Mason Thomas from Oklahoma. But I think that, you know, Mason Thomas was banged up at points this year for Oklahoma and they had a really good defense the Sooners did. You could tell how much better they were when our Mason Thomas was back on the field. He caused a lot of havoc in the backfield.

[D]

Yeah, I think he's comfortably a second round guy but I think he's a guy there that's probably in the 40s, 50s that you would want to take a swing on. High character guy. And I think he's going to bring a certain type of violence to your edge again, though. Six, two. But he knows how to use. He knows how to use his length. He understands it.

[C]

Smart player.

[D]

Yeah. And I'm a fan of our Mason Thomas.

[C]

I have him in the second as well.

[B]

I was just about to ask a separate question for Twitter on the 20, but we're running out of time. We'll save it for next time. When we come back, let's talk about the offensive line scenario across the board. Plus, we're also going to try and get Tommy to fight somebody at some point in time. He's actually just going to buy in and he's going to fight. He's going to get a little riled up and we're going to make it happen.

[C]

I just did.

[A]

So when Kelvin Falk disappears, where you rank him at when he goes missing for a long stretch of game?

[C]

Tommy Keldrick folk is.

[A]

Where's his sex?

[C]

Tommy, what is Keldrick Folk?

[B]

This is too analytical.

[C]

6 and 285.

[A]

I know how big he is. Tommy, I asked you about when he disappears.

[D]

Can I give you a. Can you watch on film and we fight about it on the Tuesday we get back.

[A]

I don't want to watch his last year.

[C]

Hold on.

[B]

I'm gonna. I'm gonna fight on you.

[D]

No, no, it's this year. 2025.

[A]

Okay. This year. Go ahead.

[D]

2025. Look at how much he opens up the second level for Auburn. Look at how many bodies are dedicated to Keldrick Falk up front and how much he opens things for those bad out of hell linebackers that they had at all Auburn.

[A]

I'll watch that. But right now I'm watching Cassius Howard vs Texas to see what the hell happened.

[C]

Nothing.

[B]

You're watching it right now.

[A]

I'm watching it right now. The what name? Goosby. Goosby.

[B]

Trevor Goose, the big left hand offensive tackle.

[A]

He could play.

[C]

He decided to come back this year.

[A]

He came back going back to school.

[C]

Back, going back.

[A]

Top five kind of guy.

[C]

Yep.

[A]

So like one of the better tackles in the whole nation. Locks you up a little bit, Tommy. Come on. But cool. You ain't wrong, though.

[C]

Let's advance it a week. Then they play Miami in the College Football playoff. They go against their left tackle, who's getting worked by Indiana the other day. Two tackles, no sacks. I know you don't really stat watch too much with defensive ends in terms of tackles and all that, but I.

[A]

Just saw Kelvin Falk get whooped by Kaden Proctor. Now Cassius Howe didn't get whooped by Kaden Proctor, now did he? Tommy Yard? Did he?

[C]

Cassius Howell did not play against Alabama this year.

[A]

Well, I lied, but I just want to see what you were gonna say. I wanted to see what you were gonna say.

[B]

Good stuff. Now we're getting. Now we're getting it rolling. This is good. All right, let's talk about the offensive tackles that'll be in Mobile for the Senior bowl going up against some of those edge rushers we mentioned a little earlier in the show. More of the draft show right after this. Lowe's knows Sundays are for football, so.

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Well, you can't get a well groomed lawn delivered, but you can't get chicken parmesan delivered. A day at the lake? That's a no. A Philly cheesesteak? That's a yes. An afternoon stroll? Sorry, no.

[B]

A burrito bowl? Happily, yes.

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What about a day of sunshine? Not happening. A box of fine wines? Yes, that's happening. Delivery on its way. Okay, how about some clear skies? Nope. Well then, how about some French fries? Yep. A little escape?

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No.

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A delicious bowl of grapes? Yes. Yes, that. How about a freshly cut lawn? Can't help you there, but barbecued prawns? Order it and it's on its way. Get almost almost anything delivered with Uber Eats. Order now. Alcohol in select markets. Product availability may vary by region. See app for details. Cowboys fans, when it comes to navigating the ever changing world of tax, your.

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What are you waiting for?

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Get [e-mail].

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This is the Dallas Cowboys.com.

[A]

Draft show.

[B]

Back here on the draft show presented by Miller Light. I just realized that I don't have the reads in front of me. Somebody keeps putting them in this little drawer. But that's okay. We'll find them at some point in time. Welcome back. Oh, no. They're over there by you guys. Go, go, Nick. Read it.

[D]

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[B]

Dude, you need to do like the. Of the medical commercial. Yeah, that. You didn't even have to speed up your voice there.

[D]

That might have heart attack. You might die. You might get cancer.

[A]

Is that what they say?

[C]

Not quite, but it's pretty close.

[A]

Yeah.

[D]

If you have heart attack or stroke, we are not liable.

[B]

There you go. I missed the. The one in the first One. So give me a second here. Kick off the year in Cowboys style. I was about to try and read it like you. I can't do it. Start 2026 strong with new additions to your Dallas Cowboys collection with premium jersey, cozy hoodies, classic hats and more for cowboys. F stop by a pro shop near you or shop online at shop.dallas cowboys.com a fanatics experience.

[D]

I was trying to get my beard to grow. Why do I have to risk stroke.

[A]

Like I don't get it, man.

[C]

What kind of commercials are you watching?

[B]

Yeah, I don't know which ones you're talking about.

[D]

Those exist.

[A]

Kyle.

[C]

Yes.

[A]

May I. May I tell the. Tell the people what I found?

[B]

Let me ask you a question. What have you found, man?

[A]

Kyle. So look man, you know, Tommy inspired me to go check this out a little bit. So this is what I found happen. Okay. I'll just let it go.

[B]

I love how you're doing homework in the middle of the show. That's dedication.

[A]

This is what I do, man. Tommy gave me some homework and that's what draft really is. I'm not so tied into an opinion that I can't go.

[B]

And it's January 22nd. What we say today may not be the same way we think about it going into April.

[A]

So Tommy's take was and me and Tommy wouldn't fight on this that Cassius Howe disappeared versus Texas. I had to go see what disappeared looks like.

[B]

Pulled up the tape.

[A]

It is a top five probably in the draft. Offensive tackle for next year. Texas getting rid of the ball quickly. Cassius did kind of get some pressures. Archmanne can run real fast when he's in trouble. But Cassius did kind of get knocked around a little bit from our man's playing left tackle here Goosby that we'll be talking about next year. Cashew on the other side beat the hell out the right tackle real bad. But I think Texas knew that. So they put running backs over there on his side. But when he's on Goosby side, it's just like one on one island stuff. And out of the matchups, Goosby did win most of the But Cassius did get some impressive pressures that led to incompletions. So I'm just, you know, that's what I saw so far.

[B]

Interesting.

[A]

So Tommy, good job for you. Good, good, good for you telling me to come look and see what the hell happened in Texas.

[B]

But does that.

[C]

I'm always happy to help if I can.

[B]

Does that build foundation for what you already thought or does that give You a little bit of a. Hey, he disappeared. Maybe he's not as high as I should be.

[A]

Let me tell you why it makes me like Cassius even more. Yeah. Cause I like the competition versus the. I love competition versus the dudes. So when we start talking about common opponents, then I could be like, well, you remember we was talking about R. Mason Thomas. He was beating the hell out Goosby when I seen him play. And that is facts. I kind of saw R. Mason get busy on him a little bit. Right. But I would rather you lose versus top talent than for you to not play against the top talent at all. You see what I'm saying? I was watching Texas Tech or whatever, right? And Texas Tech didn't go against a whole bunch of top tier dudes. But when I watched Tech play against Utah, you get. You get David Bailey vs. Fanu, the right tackle, Fano. And then you get Melo Height versus Lomu, the left tackle. All right. We're all NFL players here.

[B]

Yeah. Those are like two top 10 tackles in the class. Right?

[A]

Let me see what happens. 100%. And no matter what happens, whether you win or lose, I respect that. I saw you versus this kind of talent. So the left tackle, Lomu, I believe. Yeah. He beat the hell out of all the farmer kids at Idaho. Out of all the, you know what I'm saying?

[C]

All the regular kids, Idaho.

[A]

But when he saw mellow height, it was a little different, you know what I'm saying? David Bailey kind of beat the hell out of whoever he runs into. He had a little tougher fight versus FanU. So I like competition. Even if you lose versus one of the best guys, I want to see that you win against those guys. And then I'll kind of grade you, you know, grade you from there.

[C]

And I agree with that in the sense that I think now in today's modern age of college football, all of that top talent is starting to trickle towards the top of the transfer portal with nil, all those things. So you're starting to see more of these guys end up at the Texas Techs where they're going to be playing Big 12 competition or the Power 4 level in general. So I think that's going to make it a lot easier for scouts and coaching staffs in general to consolidate where they find some of this top talent at. It's going to be at these Power four conferences because that's where if they're good, they'll find you. And then I think that goes for college football evaluations too. They'll elevate there. Now, that. Does that mean that the G5 level and the other schools, D2, D3, can't be evaluated? So still. No, not at all. Sorry, North Texas, But I think that you're starting to see more of that focus go to some of those bigger schools, because the competition level is as close to it gets to the NFL now.

[B]

That's a terrible point. All right, thanks. I want to talk about our tackles. Yeah, I'm still on the salty. Okay.

[C]

Even your long snapper.

[B]

Yeah, he did go. All right. Jennings Dunker, the Iowa offensive tackle is the top name that I've got on the list so far.

[C]

Is.

[B]

Is that about accurate as to what the offensive tackle class is going to be for the Senior Bowl?

[D]

By far and away. And when we talk about this edge group, I'm trying to think back to last year when Mike Green out of Marshall, who got drafted in the second round of the Ravens, who he was going after time and time again. It was Morgan. It was Josh Connerly.

[A]

Yeah.

[D]

And he kept going after Josh Connerly. And whenever he started to get some wins on Josh Connerly, the rest of the edge rushers, like, okay, give me Connerly, too. Like, I could show. I could do Connerly, too, too. So I was trying to identify who could be those two or three guys. Jennings Dunker is for sure going to be one of them. Jennings Dunker, though, this is going to be an unfortunate type of situation for him because I love him as a run blocker. I like him as a pass blocker. And other than Tristan Wurfs, because Tristan Wurf is in a completely separate category. Iowa offensive linemen typically tend to have those traits. You know, they're going to be dominant run blockers. Leonard Baum is another one. But, you know, pass pro might have a little bit of, you know, hesitance. He's got the required body. I think he might be a guard at the night. Next level, though. And so that. That's another added element to Jennings Dunker. Isaiah World out of Oregon, I think that'll be another one that they chase out. And then Arizona State's Max Ihenauture. I gotta. Yeah, I gotta make sure I get that pronunciation right. But Max Ian. Yeah, yeah, go ahead.

[B]

Tell me about him, though.

[D]

Just another big body out of Arizona State that I think these guys are gonna go after that has the athleticism out on the island.

[B]

Okay. Any other. What do you see from. From Dunker and what. What you've kind of seen to this point?

[A]

Nah, man, Nick ain't wrong at all like big, powerful dude, strong, mean as hell, pushing bodies around, all this kind of stuff. Great, great help guy, but he just doesn't have the range, you know, to play tackle. In my personal opinion, I'm not a big arm length guy if you know how to use your hands. I don't think that Dunker is enough of a hand guy to mitigate his, you know, lack of arm length or whatever. So I think teams are gonna look at that and make him play guard. I think his athleticism will probably be perfect for like fighting the booth or whatever. But if he's at tackle and David Bailey's across from him at practice or whatever, it could probably get terrible for Dunker there. Dunker doesn't have bad O line feet. That's something I gotta talk about a little bit because you got good or bad feet, can you pick them up, can you move them, can you put them in certain places? But then it's like O line feet. Are you doing the O line moves properly? I think dunk knows where to put his feet, but they don't kick out fast or quick enough to deal with edgy guys that'll probably whoop him range wise and things like that. So I don't think dunker is a tackle at all to that point. Isaiah Worrell, who I think got great feet for, as big as he is, yeah, 6 foot 8, but he doesn't have the O line feet to know where to put my foot to deal with certain guys. So he's another dude that's tall as hell that ends up lunging or he ends up too high because he talks.

[B]

He got in some trouble in some of those Oregon late season bigger games where he was out of spot.

[A]

I've seen him in trouble a lot. I've seen I got a four on him, you know what I'm saying? And it's really just I don't know where to put my hands and I don't know where to put my feet. He got cool hands, they fire quickly. He got cool feet, they move well. He can travel well, but he don't always put them in the right place. Sometimes he crosses his feet, sometimes his feet get too close, sometimes his base is terrible. And I don't already think he's a, a powerful guy to start with on top of being six, eight where you don't always win the leverage battle. So I think he needs a lot of coaching. Got a lot of warts on him, but somebody's going to look at the size and athletics and be like, oh, he Cool.

[D]

Well, if you want the feet, Max. Iheanachor, which I did find the pronounce.

[B]

It's ehonachor.

[A]

One of y' all lying.

[B]

Yeah, I'm looking.

[D]

I'm looking at iheanachor.

[B]

No, it's EE-H a W dash N U H dash Gas C H O.

[D]

R E. That Max guy has.

[A]

Max from Arizona.

[B]

According to Arizona State's media guide, it is. Which actually sounds better.

[D]

Max Ianar. I do like that. I. I love the feet. I love the feet there. So if you want to see somebody with a big body who can. Who can maintain that island. That's why I think these guys are eventually going to end up hunting.

[A]

Yeah, I'm a chore.

[D]

How many days we got to the draft?

[B]

90.

[C]

I'll get it right.

[D]

I'll get it right.

[C]

Almost done.

[D]

I'll get it right.

[A]

J.C. davis is another one. He's a. He's a bigger tackle, but he doesn't have great feet. But he's won against some pretty good edges or whatever.

[B]

So shouts out to him out of Illinois.

[A]

Illinois. Illinois. Pardon me, but powerful as hell. I think he's probably going to be a guard, too. But he's played decent, decent tackle, so we'll see what he does.

[B]

Anybody you got?

[C]

Yeah, two guys that I've watched a little bit of, but haven't gone as in depth as these guys. Cage, KC from. From Boise State. Left tackle, arm length. Might. I might want to look at him at guard, but 6, 5, 3, 11. He was great in pass protection this past year. It was all Mountain west first team. Interested to see how that. I mean, we just talked about competition level. Right. Boise State was in the College football playoff in 2024 thanks to Ashton Genti. But now still, you know, they have a respectable enough schedule. I think that'll be interesting to see how he faces up against some of the tougher competition. And then Trey Zun, really experienced guy from Texas A and M. Played left tackle for them, was a captain for them this past season. We saw that was important to the Cowboys a year ago. Probably going to be a later guy in terms of draft rounds, but has the size. The only knock on him is it seemed like whenever he would talk trash about opposing players, it would maybe blow up on him a little bit. He did that before Texas and they lost. Then he did it again before Miami and they got after him a little bit bit. But you can tell that the confidence that he plays with, too. It's like he wants to back those words up. So That'll be an interesting one to watch as well.

[B]

Okay, some names to take a look at going into Mobile next week. We will be hopefully boots on the ground. They might be snow boots when we get there on Tuesday. Hopefully our flight Monday is on time. And so say. Say a prayer for those travels. So that way we get there Tuesday morning.

[C]

And safe, folks, please.

[B]

The plan is Tuesday, Wednesday, and Thursday having some interactions with players, some interviews from Radio Row, and then we'll get to watch those practices as well before returning at the end of the week. So lots of excitement around the Senior bowl, around the Shrine bowl. That happens all through the weekend. And hopefully everybody stays safe for the storm that is supposed to blow through starting on Friday night. So again, prayers for everybody out there.

[D]

Did you ever have an ice storm in Natchez, Mississippi?

[A]

No, sir, but I was part of the storm in Houston.

[D]

Houston 2021.

[C]

Okay.

[B]

Yeah, that was. That one was wild.

[D]

That one sucked.

[A]

Yeah, that one sucked. But, hey, we gonna do the iced and the snow thing this year, and I'm gonna go out there and barbecue, you know what I'm saying? There you go. I'm gonna load it because I never barbecued in the snow before, you know what I'm saying? So we're gonna go out there and do that.

[B]

Good for you.

[D]

I'm coming over.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

If y'. All, if you can make.

[D]

I'll find a raccoon.

[C]

See?

[B]

We'll see what happens.

[C]

I'm gonna.

[D]

No pork.

[B]

That does it for us here on the draft show. Stay safe this weekend, everybody. For Vach Lombardi, Nick Harris for Tommy Yarish, Chris Beam in the back of Kyle Yeoman saying so long. We'll see you next week from the Senior bowl in Mobile, Alabama. This has been a production of Dallas Cowboys.com and the Dallas Cowboys Football Club.

[A]

How about this? Cowboys.

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Get almost anything you need delivered with Uber E. Uber Eats. What do we mean by almost? Well, you can't get a well groomed lawn delivered, but you can get chicken parmesan delivered. A little escape.

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A delicious bowl of grapes. Yes. Yes, that. An afternoon stroll. Sorry, no. A burrito bowl. Happily, yes. A day of sunshine. No. A box of fine wines. Yes. Uber Eats can definitely get you that. Get almost. Almost anything delivered with Uber Eats. Order now. Alcohol in select markets. Product availability may vary by region. See app for detail.