The Draft Show: Pro Day Clues & Rising Prospects

Summary

The Draft Show - “Pro Day Clues & Rising Prospects”

Podcast: The Draft Show (DallasCowboys.com)
Air Date: March 24, 2026
Hosts: Voch Lombardi, Nick Harris, Chris Beam (Kyle Yeomans, Tommy Yarish mentioned remotely)

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Overview

This episode is dedicated to dissecting the ongoing NFL Draft preparation cycle, focusing on Cowboys-centric pro day takeaways, the value of athletic testing vs. film, rising prospects, and draft strategies. The crew, joined remotely by Cowboys’ media members at Texas Pro Day, delivers an in-depth dialogue on evolving Cowboys draft interests, specific prospect analysis, player versatility, and how scouting philosophies are shaping draft boards as the NFL Draft approaches.

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Key Discussion Points and Insights

1. Cowboys’ Scouting at Pro Days

(03:25–07:43)

• Recent Pro Day Visits: Cowboys front office and coaches have been visiting numerous pro days:
  • Miami: Attendance by Brian Schottenheimer, Will McClay, Christian Parker; interest in Keonte Scott (notable speed and vertical), Reuben Bain, Akeem Mezador, Francis Mauigoa.
  • Texas: Limited top interest, but some focus on Malik Muhammad (CB, Rounds 2–3), DJ Campbell (OG, Day 3), Ethan Burke (Edge, Day 3), Trey Moore (Edge, Early Day 3), Anthony Hill (LB/Edge Hybrid, Rds 2–3).
  • Baylor: Tight end Michael Trigg, QB Sawyer Robertson, WR Josh Cameron drawing attention – versatility and athletic upside discussed.
• Dinner Meetings & "Non-30 Visits": Pre-draft dinner meetings with prospects like Harold Perkins (LSU) and others are part of standard diligence, not strict indicators of first-round interest.

Quote – On Pro Day Meetings:

“It’s more about just trying to take advantage of these opportunities as much as they can… doing due diligence.” — Nick Harris (07:24)

2. Player Versatility and Defensive Philosophy

(07:44–10:22)

• The staff discussed the Cowboys’ emphasis on “position flex”—players with experience across multiple positions (LB/Edge hybrids, multi-spot DBs).
• Versatility is a priority due to the multiple fronts in Christian Parker’s defense and the broader Will McClay draft strategy.

Quote – On Defensive Versatility:

“If they have versatility and can play in multiple spots, that’s gonna check one box for Christian Parker, and arguably the biggest box other than, you know, does the brain work.” — Nick Harris (08:52)

3. Evaluating Athletic Testing vs. Film

(12:22–14:44; 20:14–26:44)

• Voch Lombardi is skeptical of pro day/combine numbers trumping his film evaluations, citing cases like Keonte Scott, whose testing numbers don’t always match on-field play speed.
• Nick Harris argues testing verifies athletic context and helps compare players across different competition levels, but film remains the foundation.

Quote – On Film vs. Testing:

“Film is always first for me... There’s a lot of different ways to break this up.” — Voch Lombardi (25:31)

Quote – On Value of Testing:

“When they put those verified numbers down, we know we can compare actual data that’s apples to apples... That’s really the only actual data you can directly compare.” — Nick Harris (21:32)

4. Rising Prospects and Mock Draft Scenarios

(20:06–29:57)

• Dylan Thieneman (Oregon safety) has seen his stock soar due to combine/pro day performance, previously seen as a trade-down or late-first guy, now possible at pick 12.
• Multiple combos at picks 12 and 20 are debated:
  • Ruben Bain (Edge, Miami)/CJ Allen (LB, Georgia)
  • Mansoor Delane (CB, LSU)/Dylan Thieneman (S, Oregon)
  • Caleb Downs (S, Ohio State)/Cassius How (Edge, Texas A&M)
• The crew generally agrees: “Film is first” in formulation but athletic verification can bump prospects up within closely graded tiers.

5. Linebacker Tiers and the “Brainworks” Metric

(30:09–34:50)

• Discussion of gaps between top, second, and third-tier linebacker prospects (Styles, Allen, Hill, Rodriguez, Golday, Barham).
• Identification of “brainworks” (football intelligence) prospects Christian Parker might covet. Names mentioned: CJ Allen, Mansoor Delane, Caleb Downs, Sonny Styles, Colton Hood, Dylan Thieneman, and a few OL like Kaden Proctor.

6. Most Polarizing Prospect in the Class

(35:47–37:55)

• Keldrick Falk (Edge, Auburn) considered polarizing: huge traits, limited pass rush production. Debate on value at 20 or earlier.

Quote:

“I have that gut feeling that at 20, Falk is going to be in the conversation... he’s a good player, he can do things, but wasn’t very productive.” — Voch Lombardi (37:19)

7. Green Dot Possibility—Who Calls Defensive Plays?

(42:17–43:31)

• Ideal for a veteran, but Sonny Styles or CJ Allen are rookies who might possibly handle the green dot (play-calling) in Parker’s complex defense; Golday (Cincinnati) could be included due to versatility.

8. Deep Dive: Day 3 Wide Receiver Prospects

(43:31–61:44)

• Cowboys likely targeting a Day 3 WR—special teams value and potential upside prioritized.
  • Big, fast, athletic WRs for ST and spot roles: Jeff Caldwell (Cincinnati) (6’5”, 216, 4.31 40), high tester; Eric McAllister (TCU), high production, strong value.
  • Smooth Route Runners: Ted Hurst (Georgia State), Skyler Bell (UConn), Jeremy Bernard (Alabama), Antonio Williams (Clemson).
  • Gadget/Return/“Yak” Guys: Zachariah Branch (Georgia), Brendan Thompson (Mississippi St.), Kevin Coleman (Missouri). Drawbacks: limited route trees, context-dependent production.
• The group largely prefers big, versatile, or savvy route-running WRs for Day 3 picks over smaller gadget types unless they have rare traits.

Quote – On Small/Yak WRs:

“I can’t put the smaller yak guys in day two because they don’t run routes as well as the bigger yak guys and are better in their offense.” — Chris Beam (51:50)

9. Depth and Overall Quality of the 2025 WR Class

(59:15–62:05)

• General consensus: This class lacks the top-end depth of previous WR classes, but the early Day 3 range is loaded with intriguing contributors.
• Difference in board stacking/grade distribution: Only six “Day 2 grades” for WRs for Voch, but 14 or more in the 4th/5th rounds.

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Testing vs. Film:
  “I don’t feed into the pro days. The pro days are more for the coaches upstairs than it is for me.” — Voch Lombardi (14:44)

• On Pro Day Meetings & Intelligence:
  “If they have versatility...that’s gonna check one box for Christian Parker, and arguably the biggest box other than, you know, does the brain work.” — Nick Harris (08:52)

• On Position Value in Day 3 WRs:
  “Your day three receiver? Gonna have to play teams somewhere. So you either gonna be big enough to tackle or you gonna have to be like a return guy.” — Chris Beam (47:44)

• On Wide Receiver Class Structure:
  “The more I get into it... I look at early portions of day three, the fourth and fifth-round guys... There’s a lot of talent there — I think there are a lot of guys going to make rosters immediately.” — Voch Lombardi (59:57)

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Important Timestamps

• Cowboys at Pro Days: Updates & Players — [03:25–07:43]
• Versatility in Defensive Prospects — [07:44–10:22]
• Film vs. Testing Debate — [12:22–14:44], [20:14–26:44]
• Mock Draft Combos: Who at 12 & 20? — [20:06–29:57]
• Linebacker Tiers/“Brainworks” Prospects — [30:09–34:50]
• Polarizing Prospects (Keldrick Falk) — [35:47–37:55]
• Green Dot: Play-Calling on Defense — [42:17–43:31]
• Day 3 Wide Receiver Deep Dive — [43:31–61:44]
• Class Depth & Board Philosophy, WR — [59:15–62:05]

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Conclusion

This episode provides a candid look behind the scenes at current Cowboys scouting approaches, highlights ongoing debates about how to weigh pro day/athletic testing against film, and identifies specific rising prospects and positions of interest—particularly in the mid to late rounds. The crew is especially bullish on the depth in the wide receiver class from rounds 4–5, believes the team will prioritize versatility and intelligence on defense, and looks for tangible clues at pro days that fit Dallas’ needs.

If you want a sense of where Dallas’ draft board and philosophy stand a month out, this is an essential listen.

Transcript

[Commercial Announcer]

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[Vach Lombardi]

This is the Dallas Cowboys.com draft show

[Chris Beam]

your war room for insider news and draft analysis from deep within the confines

[Vach Lombardi]

of Cowboys headquarters at the Star and Frisco.

[Chris Beam]

Now, your hosts, Vach Lombardi, Nick Harris,

[Vach Lombardi]

Bobby Belt, Tommy Yarish and Kyle Yeomans. Today is Tuesday, March 24th, and we are now 30 days away from the NFL Draft in Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania. Welcome in to the Draft show presented by Miller Lite, the only beer of the Dallas Cowboys. This segment is brought to you by your Texas Ford dealers. Ford is the best in Texas with Vach Lombardi, Nick Harris, Chris Beam in the back of Kyle Yeomans. Tommy Yarish is boots on the ground at pro day at the University of Texas in Austin. Shocker. He's going to Texas Tech later this week, though, too.

[Chris Beam]

Yep. Yep.

[Nick Harris]

I hear he's taking a road trip with a really interesting fellow.

[Vach Lombardi]

Interesting fellow?

[Nick Harris]

Yep.

[Vach Lombardi]

Is that the word you would use?

[Nick Harris]

Yep.

[Vach Lombardi]

What were you going to use?

[Nick Harris]

I don't know.

[Chris Beam]

It's going to be this word.

[Nick Harris]

It's going to be me.

[Vach Lombardi]

Oh, I've taken a road trip with. With Nick to Lubbock before.

[Nick Harris]

We have. Yeah.

[Vach Lombardi]

Out there once.

[Nick Harris]

That was a crap trip. It was.

[Vach Lombardi]

It was a crap trip.

[Nick Harris]

Me and. Me and Tommy after Texas. Texas Pro Day on Thursday. We're stopping by Evie Mays barbecue in Wolf.

[Chris Beam]

Every May. Heavy May, Evie Mays black woman.

[Nick Harris]

About to find out. About to find out. It's on the top 10 Texas monthly barbecue list.

[Chris Beam]

Is it?

[Nick Harris]

Back when I was working in recruiting, anytime I'd have a road trip, I'd try to hunt down one of those top 50s.

[Chris Beam]

Yeah.

[Nick Harris]

And this one's number 10. So I'm really excited about this one. So if you've been to Evie Mays Barbecue in Walforth, tweet me or whatever, DM me, let me know what to get. I don't eat pork. I don't do the swamp. I was about to say, I'll do everything else. We got the brisket, the turkey. If there's chicken, I'm down with that. The sides I got. I got to be a big side.

[Vach Lombardi]

Oh, yeah.

[Nick Harris]

If I'm not eating, you know Pork ribs or anything.

[Chris Beam]

I was about to say you don't eat pork, but I don't know every May personally, but I know the heavy maze of the world, right? And they'll soak a brisket in pork, you know what I'm saying? So be careful. Be careful. You know what I mean? Shouts out to every maze.

[Nick Harris]

It's all about intention.

[Chris Beam]

Yeah, Okay.

[Nick Harris]

I don't know that.

[Vach Lombardi]

What doesn't know won't kill you, right?

[Nick Harris]

Right.

[Chris Beam]

Mac and cheese got a hog maw in it. You know what I'm saying? Yeah, yeah.

[Vach Lombardi]

Stop it, Vodch.

[Chris Beam]

I'm kidding. I know people who's.

[Nick Harris]

These are white folk, but they white.

[Chris Beam]

Are they?

[Vach Lombardi]

Did you just look it up?

[Nick Harris]

Yeah, I do.

[Chris Beam]

I thought if your middle name was like May or like Gene and you said it back to back like that, I just knew it was us, like Betty Jean Evan, you know what I'm saying?

[Nick Harris]

You get out deep enough in the country of Texas, you see, I was

[Vach Lombardi]

about to say that's different. When you get, like, in the podunk parts of Texas, like, oh, yeah, it's a little different.

[Chris Beam]

I'm from Mississippi.

[Nick Harris]

Thought you were about to say Podell.

[Vach Lombardi]

Oh, no, not Garrett.

[Chris Beam]

Shout out to Gary.

[Nick Harris]

Yeah.

[Vach Lombardi]

GP all right. 30 days out from the NFL draft, and, yes, pro days are going on at the moment. Nick, I wanted to give you the floor to maybe update a list of the cowboys that are at each of these pro days. We went through your list last week and kind of talked about what you had tweeted out there, and we can go through that same list again if you'd like, or if you have some other ones. I know Miami was one where Brian Schottenheimer, Will McClay, and. And Christian Parker were at yesterday. Lots of great draft prospects, as you know, there too. So what are some of the updates in that program?

[Nick Harris]

I apologize. I'm trying to get this thing up in front of me. My. My wifi is not cooperating.

[Vach Lombardi]

That's okay.

[Nick Harris]

But yeah, yeah. So yesterday, Brian Schottenheimer, Christian Parker, Will McLay, they were all at Miami checking out, you know, all the guys that they have there. How about Keonte Scott running sub? 4. 4. That was. That was big.

[Vach Lombardi]

A 4, 2, 5. Unofficial.

[Nick Harris]

Yeah. Officially came in like 4, 3, 1, but, like, still, that's. That's huge. He had a 42 plus vert. Really impressive pro day for Keante Scott. And then obviously, you look at Reuben Bane, Akeem Mezador, all the guys that are there, even Francis Malangoa. There was a There were a lot of guys there that, you know, could make sense for, for the Cowboys moving forward. Today they are at the University of Texas. That is why our great friend Tommy Yarish is down there, which I find interesting that, that that crew made it to Austin because I, I really only look at one, maybe two guys that make sense at least at the top of the draft for, for the Cowboys. One being Malik Muhammad, the corner. I, I think he's kind of a round two, round three guy. He would maybe make sense of that 92 pick if he's still there. That's. That's going to be a little bit of a far stretch for me. I like DJ Campbell, but I like DJ Campbell more as a day three guy. The interior lineman, he played right guard throughout his time. I think he has some left guard. Fle also have the edge. Ethan Burke, that's another day three guy.

[Chris Beam]

Trey Moore.

[Nick Harris]

Trey Moore, yeah. He's an interesting one. I think he probably goes early Day three.

[Chris Beam]

He's fast.

[Nick Harris]

And you obviously have Anthony Hill as well. I, I completely blanked on Anthony Hill. That's a, that's a second round guy. Could potentially sneak in back in first depending on how teams feel about him. But overall, I think that's, that's big. Texas Tech on Thursday, that'll be huge as well. And there's another Lone Star State trip wrapped up in there as well. So they're hitting four pro days this week. Yeah, that crew, that crew getting busy.

[Vach Lombardi]

And I saw your tweet last night about Linda Wells at. Down in Waco with Baylor. Michael Trigg and Sawyer Robertson, tight end, quarterback, respectively. Josh Cameron, wide receiver that we really talked about a lot during Senior bowl week because he was a standout during the week down in Mobile. What does that tell you about. What are the. Because there's reports all the way across the league, all 32 teams are having reports of, oh, private dinner here, a meeting here, not necessarily a 30 visit, but still contact between a lot of that back and forth. What does that tell you about what these teams are doing currently?

[Nick Harris]

Yeah, it could mean something. It could mean nothing. You know, with, with Michael Trigg specifically, the tight end out of Baylor. He's. He's a fun player. He's a kind of a gadget player that I think will be really fun in the receiving game. He's. His hands are up and down because he'll make the most spectacular catches over traffic and then he'll drop like the most simple slant route. And you're like, how did that happen? So M. Trigg, he's, he's, I, I, I think day three comfortably for me. It wouldn't surprise me though, if a team swings on him on day two. And then Josh Cameron, we've talked about quite a bit, Sawyer Robertson. I, I think that that was just a nature of, hey, he's also on this team and, you know, could end up somewhere where, you know, we, we might need to understand what's going on with him and so that's why they go ahead and sit down with him. But overall, these dinners. They met with Harold Perkins before LSU's pro day on Sunday. Bless you, Kyle.

[Chris Beam]

Thank you.

[Nick Harris]

And Mansour Delain look from the staff this week as well at the LSU Pro Day. So it's more about just trying to take advantage of these opportunities as much as they can. They'll meet with Anthony Hill tonight and, or, excuse me, that was last night in Austin and you know, it's just again, doing due diligence.

[Vach Lombardi]

You were you going to ask a

[Chris Beam]

question there, V. I was going to derail the hell out you and ask, you know, if the Cowboys were looking for a certain type of player when, you know, because there's, there are certain players that fit in these little hybrid. I play two spot things, but I don't want to derail what you said, but Nick did bring up another name. How do you think the Cowboys are valuing these dudes that maybe played linebacker one year and played edge for another year? I just looked at some names. So you talked about Perkins from lsu, linebacker edge sometimes. And edge meaning like outside linebacker type guy? Right. We talked about Moore from Texas. He's a guy that was like that. Keyshawn Elliott from Arizona State, Jayshawn Barham from Michigan, just names like that. Do you think the Cowboys, do y' all think the Cowboys are interested in dudes like that, that play both those, both those kind of spots? Is that something that translate in Christian Parker's defense to where, oh, you could play a inside, you know, one time or you'll play the edge this time. Right. Like Maris. Like Maris. Leophils that he was a, you know, he was a just off ball linebacker now, but now he's an outside linebacker as an edge guy. I don't think they're going to be moving him back and forth like that. Should we be looking into guys that could move back and forth like that?

[Nick Harris]

I think the versatility, we can look at the free agent ads and see that versatility is reigned supreme with a lot of these additions. So if they have versatility on the defense and they can play in multiple spots. That's going to check one box for Christian Parker and arguably the biggest box other than, you know, does the brain work. Yeah, that's the one that really stands out. I do have this pro day list in front of me if you real

[Vach Lombardi]

quick, just to play off of your point. Before we get into that, the four additions that they've had all play multiple positions or at least can play multiple positions. Rashawn Gary, Jalen Thompson, Kobe Durant, Otito Bonya. I mean, all those guys can do that and can play in multiple spots. Do you feel like there's more of an emphasis on position flex and versatility just because it's a multiple defense, or are we just looking at the resume and saying they can do all of this? We'll see where it fits. Whenever time comes around and when training

[Nick Harris]

camp comes around, I think it's a little bit of all of that. And I also want to point to previous drafts, well before Christian Parker was even a thought around here, that versatility was, you know, a big part of, you know, their drafting strategy. That's been kind of the Will McClay strategy over the course of the year. So it's kind of a. It makes sense why when you hear Christian Parker talk about, you know, versatility and being able to play in multiple spots, you hear Will McClay talk about the same things. It makes sense why at least those two guys bridged, you know, concepts and philosophies whenever they met during the interview process.

[Chris Beam]

Kaija made a really good point too. Like, just because they played, it doesn't mean that the Cowboys are looking for you to play like Jake Go. They played a bunch of nickel like, hey, dog, come on, you probably won't be doing that heat. You know what I'm saying? So that's fair. Good point.

[Nick Harris]

So, yeah, let's dive into some of these over the course of the last week. I'm not going to touch on the ones that y' all did last week. See Arkansas, Georgia Tech, not only was Dallas present, but quarterbacks coach Steve Schimko was there. We could look at Haynes, King, which again, I. I don't put a whole lot of emphasis into that because all of these position coaches are going to go out to pro days one way or another, whether they are drafting at the position or not. You can look at Luna Wells. Are they going to draft a tight end? Maybe, maybe not, I don't know. But he's still out there going to see guys. Steve Schumco went to a Couple of pro days last year, and they didn't draft a quarterback or even sign one undrafted. So I don't know, you know, but something. Something to keep. Keep moving here. Sorry. Syracuse, Tarleton State, Abilene Christian.

[Vach Lombardi]

Those are. Those are pretty normal for them. They'll go to these regional ones, and they're kind of the ones that help run it.

[Chris Beam]

Okay.

[Vach Lombardi]

To a certain extent. So, like, going to ACU and going to Tarleton, like, that's a normal.

[Chris Beam]

I say, who the hell play that? But please, go ahead.

[Nick Harris]

Yeah, sorry. This list is really messing with me. My WI Fi just went out. This is killing me. I'm sorry, fellas. Like, this is not helping me at all. But, yeah, we can. We can start with those. I'm sorry.

[Vach Lombardi]

That's. But there. There are some names at least school wise, that you can utilize. Is this, like, your laptop or is this.

[Nick Harris]

It is mine. Yeah.

[Vach Lombardi]

And, yeah, we got to get.

[Nick Harris]

That doesn't.

[Chris Beam]

What you looking for? You know, my work, I get on.

[Nick Harris]

Your star WI Fi really killed me today. Now I have this spreadsheet, and it's just. It's not working. I can't help any. Spreadsheet? Yeah. I'm sorry, fellas.

[Chris Beam]

That's okay. Sorry, Nick Harris.

[Nick Harris]

We'll just figure it out when some. You lose a lot.

[Chris Beam]

Any.

[Vach Lombardi]

Any numbers or guys that have stuck out from pro day so far. Now, the Tennessee Pro Day is not happening March 31, so that's right at the tail end of all of it. So that's the one I think everybody kind of has circled just for Jamal McCoy to see him run and. Or do anything drill wise, football wise, and see what he looks like. But any other numbers or testing stick out from what you've seen so far? Maybe the Georgia pro day or some of those other big schools that have happened so far.

[Chris Beam]

I hate combine numbers, though. I mean, I hate all. All numbers for. I hate number. Why? Well, because I feel like I know who you are based on your film. So if you show up with these phantom numbers that I didn't expect, or you run much faster at your pro day than you did at your combine, I'm curious now how this happened. You know what I'm saying?

[Nick Harris]

Then why do they matter?

[Chris Beam]

Why do they matter to who?

[Nick Harris]

To you? To anyone?

[Chris Beam]

Why do numbers matter to me?

[Nick Harris]

They don't.

[Chris Beam]

Something to talk about, something to show up on the Dallas Cowboys. But when I watched, for example, Keontae Scott, right, in Miami, when I watched him, I didn't see a guy that ran a. What he like a 4 2, 4,

[Vach Lombardi]

3, 4, 3 1.

[Chris Beam]

I didn't see 431 on film. You know what I'm saying? So when I'm thinking about Keontae Scott, I'm thinking about the type of guy that he is on film. Like, just him playing nickel, which I think he's a safety for real, right? If he runs a 43 1, then he should have a lot more range to go play some safety stuff or to go cover different types of guys. I've seen guys kind of run past Keontae Scott. So now I got more questions. Now I'm trying to figure all this stuff out. Mansoor Delane, I think people were kinda. If they were to knock him for anything, they would say that his size, and they don't really know how fast he's gonna run. And then Mansoor Delaine rolls out the bed and run a four, three. What? Four three. Something like that. I just would rather trust the film first. If I'm in a room with other scouts or with you guys and they say, vouch, sell me on Mansoor Delaine, the first thing I'm gonna say is I don't think that he runs. I'm not gonna say, oh, he runs really fast. I'm gonna lead with technique and how smart he is or his man coverage or route recognition. Sticky how he plays with his hands, how he's. I'm not gonna be like, boy, I think he's gonna run like a 4 3. That just ain't what I'm gonna lead with. And then he goes out and runs the 4 3. So it could just be grumpy old Vosch. The same way I feel about trades or whatever, I just don't lean into your magical combine numbers. I love what Ban and Mezzador just did. They was like, hey, man, I ain't finna do a whole bunch of nonsensical stuff. I'm about to hit this bag, and y' all can watch that, you know what I'm saying? Because y' all watch my film. Y' all know who I am. If, you know, Mezador shows up and run a 44 or something like that, man, that ain't changing my mind, you know what I'm saying? Show me how you move. Show me how you. You know what I. Show me how you hit the bag and do all this kind of stuff. They had Ruben bang catching passes, and so that made me sick a little bit, you know what I'm saying? When I saw that little clip running around. But I just don't Feed into the pro days. The pro days are more for the coaches upstairs than it is for me.

[Nick Harris]

We also had. I got the spreadsheet working.

[Chris Beam]

I was trying to chat until you got nicely done. I was trying to run my mouth to your Internet work, please.

[Nick Harris]

Washington, Oregon Botch talk so much.

[Chris Beam]

Botch.

[Vach Lombardi]

That was called the voch vamp. That was what that was.

[Chris Beam]

I'm stalling from a man's Internet at this billion gwillion dollar organ.

[Nick Harris]

Yeah, you got it.

[Chris Beam]

Thank you.

[Nick Harris]

Washington, Oregon, Georgia. At Georgia. Outside linebackers coach Chijira Uzo Aribe was there, but he also came from Georgia, so keep that in mind. Minnesota, Penn State, and that is what I have right now. And then again, yesterday they were at lsu. The head coach and defensive coordinator and your VP of player personnel are at Miami. Today they're at Texas. Tomorrow they'll be at another Lone Star State stop, and then on Thursday, Texas Tech. So. So staying busy this week. And you can bet that they're going to have a large contingency at Tennessee next week as well.

[Vach Lombardi]

Yeah, I'm interested to see what type of brass is in Knoxville next week. All right, we'll take our first break. When we come back, we're going to do some Twitter on the 20. Got some really good questions left over even from last week's Twitter on the 20 tweets, so I'm going to use some of those here when we come back with more of the draft show right after this.

[Chris Beam]

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[Vach Lombardi]

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[Vach Lombardi]

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[Chris Beam]

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[Vach Lombardi]

Need a last minute dish to bring to your Cowboys watch party?

[Nick Harris]

You made it. The game's about to start.

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[Vach Lombardi]

with flavors like Italiano turkey and bacon and chicken pesto.

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[Vach Lombardi]

This is the Dallas Cowboys.com draft show. This summer train where the stars are made with the Dallas Cowboys Football Youth Camps and dance camps. Athletes of all skill levels, ages 6 to 16 are invited to learn from former NFL players and the Dallas Cowboys cheerleaders. Step onto the field and practice like the Pros. Register before May 15th to save $25. Visit Dallas Cowboys.com camps to register back here on the Draft show presented by Miller Lite, the only beer of the Dallas Cowboys for the first time. Second time really, because we showed it on Talking Cowboys earlier. The Dallas Cowboy Star Magazine draft guide is here. Got them in yesterday. They are available at pro shops in the Dallas Fort Worth Metroplex. Now go ahead and get your copies. Today, scouting reports on over 100 players in depth analysis. Tommy Yarish's mock draft is in there too. Who did he have for Dallas? Let's see, that's good for Minnesota. I mean the Minnesota Vikings that he had a number 12. Oh, he went. He went positive here. He said. Reuben Bain Jr. Edge rusher from Miami is going to be there at 12.

[Chris Beam]

Wouldn't that be great? Wouldn't it just.

[Vach Lombardi]

Wouldn't it be nice? And then at 20, he had Dylan Thienaman, Oregon safety. It's a pretty good draft haul.

[Nick Harris]

That would be.

[Chris Beam]

Would y'. All. Would y' all rather take Thenaman at 12 or 20?

[Nick Harris]

You're not getting him at 20.

[Vach Lombardi]

I don't think so either.

[Chris Beam]

I got into a bit of a fight on Twitter this morning. Man, don't even worry about it. Y' all gonna find it if you want to, but I see a lot more people that are talking about taking. Taking them. If you get wiped out, they'll take them at 12. And I'm just like, dawg.

[Vach Lombardi]

Cause they're listening to Nick Harris.

[Chris Beam]

But a month ago, he was just a guy that, like, people was like, oh, yeah, I'll trade back from 20 and get him with some old picks. And now he's like, at 12. And I was like, damn.

[Nick Harris]

Because this thing happens called the combine, where you have verified numbers that the

[Chris Beam]

film ain't changed, but the verified numbers,

[Nick Harris]

you get them in, and it makes the prospect a lot different because there were testing concerns. And I'll say this about testing. This is why testing should matter. Vouch. We're gonna fight right quick, please.

[Chris Beam]

Okay, listen.

[Nick Harris]

This is why testing should matter.

[Chris Beam]

Okay.

[Nick Harris]

Is because when we're comparing Dylan Thieneman with, like, I don't know, give me Caleb. Nah, that's a little different. Don't be a phony like A.J.

[Chris Beam]

halsey, he's. He's testing better than. Than Caleb Downs.

[Nick Harris]

He is. But I'm more so putting him in the echelon he was in. So like the A.J. halsey's, the Emmanuel McNeil Warrens, of course. And then when Dylan Thienerman comes out of the combine and he lays those verified numbers down, the athleticism, so much more interesting. He just took you out of the three box.

[Chris Beam]

I don't know what happened there. What the hell?

[Vach Lombardi]

He's trying to set up a fight.

[Nick Harris]

He's trying to.

[Vach Lombardi]

He's trying to put you in the two boxes.

[Chris Beam]

I see what he's doing.

[Nick Harris]

When they put those verified numbers down, then we know we can compare actual data that goes A for B. It's not an apples to oranges comparison anymore because these guys play much different levels of competition. And then you can look at these numbers side by side, and you can be like, okay, that guy is that fast compared to this guy at this speed. And that's really the only actual Data you can directly compare to where it's an apples to apples conversation.

[Chris Beam]

So let me ask you this. And it may not be you. Let's just say it's them saying this, right? Why do we put Thenaman in the conversation with Halsey and McNeil Warren in the first place?

[Nick Harris]

That's a good question. Because I've always had him in the first round, so.

[Chris Beam]

Okay, well, I don't have him quite as a first round grade, but he's 17th on my board, right. And that's based on film. So if he's there with McNeil Warren, with Wheatley, with Halsey, right. I don't want to say, oh, I got numbers now. I'll take him at 12. I'll jump all these other guys and just put them at 12. I'm just so film guy, and I think just because you test, I didn't think Dylan Thieman was an incredibly slow player. I thought he did fine for what his job asked him to do. End of the day, even if he goes out and proves that he runs this 40 that he's been prepping and practicing for, these drills that he's been prepping and practicing for. But dawg, like, your film didn't change. You got the same film whether it's Oregon or Purdue. And the Purdue film, in my opinion, is better than Oregon film. Like, the film is still the film. You know what I'm saying? So, like, this ain't me fighting Nick Harris. But like, what is it about?

[Nick Harris]

I agree with you there. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Chris Beam]

Like, oh, boy, this number. I knew he ran faster than Halsey. Cause I know Halsey can't run. I think he. I felt like he was a better moving guy than McNeil Warren. But if I was in a room full of scouts, I'm not gonna say, oh, Dylan Thieman ran this damn four, three. I'm like, oh, dawg, put him on the roof. Did you watch Purdue? He ranged his hair. I saw this one play. He was at the hash and he made it to the numbers. Boy, he smart as hell. Rod ranked all this kind of stuff, which I'm right.

[Nick Harris]

Which is right. But that's not the NFL. Well, you know for sure. Like, hey, can this speed translate? Okay, let's get this speed on laser and we can see if that actually translates. And when he lays down the 40 that he did, I don't have it right in front of me that. That can tell you, hey, he can play on the roof in the NFL because he can go stop to start that quick and be able to cover up that range. And so that. That's, to me, the value of these testing. Even if you do prep for it for eight weeks. And, you know, if you gave a guy a 40 yard dash in the middle of November, it would obviously look a lot different than it would look in a combine setting.

[Chris Beam]

Yeah.

[Nick Harris]

But it gives you an idea of what the max speed and what the maximum speed potential looks like for these guys.

[Chris Beam]

Yeah, yeah.

[Nick Harris]

And I think with Dylan Thienaman specifically, the only question that he had preventing him from kind of being a bonafide first rounder coming into the draft process was the verified athleticism. It's like, is this guy average athlete or is he a good athlete? And he came out of the combine, in my opinion, approved to be an elite athlete.

[Chris Beam]

Sure.

[Nick Harris]

And so that's, to me, I was like, okay, that's a top 12, top 15 player.

[Vach Lombardi]

4, 3, 5, 40 4. 1 inch vertical, 10, 5 broad.

[Nick Harris]

What the vert and the broad tells me, especially from the safety position, is you can explode and you can get off. And whenever that range that you need to cover up on the back end needs to actually manifest in an NFL game, you could do that. And then he has 4, 3, 5 speed to be able to help close that as well.

[Chris Beam]

Maybe I'm grumpy old guy. And you ain't wrong, by the way. Maybe I'm grumpy old guy, but I feel like phenom. And we just played some highlights. Appreciate beaming everybody in the back. I know he rangy cause of the film. I don't need a number. Just cause I know some people that run fast, that ain't rangy. Cause they just don't see it. And that's a part of their range as well. For example, there's this one play from Sonny Styles, right. Breaks up a pass in the back right end zone right before somebody score, and he jumps high as hell and bats it down. If y'.

[Vach Lombardi]

All.

[Chris Beam]

Y' all probably seen it. I didn't need his vertical to know that Sonny Styles jumps high. You know what I'm saying? I just didn't need that. I think that everything that you want would check out on film. And there's actually this comment fighting me, and I think this is perfect. Jkails in the chat saying Vosh keeps saying that he's. That he's film guy. Like everybody else ain't film guy. No, everybody else is film guy. But what I'm saying is film is first for me. Some people are like analytics. Look, look, the league using AI now, you know what I'm saying? There's a lot of different ways to break this up.

[Vach Lombardi]

I feel like everybody on this show would agree. Film is first.

[Nick Harris]

Film has to be first.

[Chris Beam]

It's gotta be.

[Vach Lombardi]

And I think good scouts in the building and across the league agree that film is first.

[Chris Beam]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Vach Lombardi]

It always has.

[Nick Harris]

The Raiders will tell you that combine testing is first.

[Chris Beam]

The Raiders suck a draft.

[Nick Harris]

Exactly. So I'm not sitting here saying that like combine testing is more important than what you see on film. I think I'm trying to like pull away the percentage of how important.

[Chris Beam]

Oh, yeah, I'm not fighting you. I'm not fighting you. But somebody out there is saying, oh, Dylan Thienerman showed that. And this might be you saying this, but Dylan Thieneman ran a 4, 3. He jumped from 29 to 10 on my board.

[Nick Harris]

He didn't go that far for me, but he was already at like 17.

[Chris Beam]

And that's the thing about Nick, Harry and vosh, really. He's 17 on my board. He's up there for you. He's a first round grade for you. Cause the film checks out. I don't give a Damn about his 4, 3. He could have ran a 4 5. I'm like, hey, man, Dylan, run.

[Vach Lombardi]

Still got it.

[Chris Beam]

Dillon run faster than that on film. If AJ Halsey goes to run a 43 3, hey, horse, don't run that on film. You know what I'm saying? So film is always first for me is what I'm saying. I'm sorry to it on the twin. We'll.

[Vach Lombardi]

We'll add. We'll add a question. We'll add a couple questions. In the third segment.

[Chris Beam]

It was.

[Vach Lombardi]

It is very important context because everybody looks at it differently. You talked about percentages. Some people might be 75, film 25, other stuff. And I'm not even just going to say like, like combine testing's the 25%. That's probably so much data between combine and pro day and meetings and personality and whatever their coaches at the college level say, all of that is the case and everybody looks at it differently. However, when you look at Dylan Feederman in the first place, he's on the COVID of the magazine partially because I stood on the table in our email chain and said, hey, he could go at 12 or he could go at 20, so we might as well throw him on the COVID because he. There's a good shot he could be a cowboy Now. They didn't sign Jalen Thompson and PJ Locke by this point. Whenever we Were putting the magazine together. I still don't necessarily think it's out of the question that he is a possibility for the Cowboys. But we got some pretty good names on here. We'll check it out. Pro day or pro shops in person. I think they're available starting today and then online. Probably within the next week or so it'll be online. So time now for some Twitter on the 20. Yeah. Just 10 minutes late. That's all we got. Fitz wants to know which pair would you like more from 12 and 20? Sticking with that conversation, pairing. Number one, Ruben Bane from Miami. Edge rusher. That one C.J. allen, linebacker from Georgia. That's. That's number one. Number two, Mansour Delane, corner from LSU.

[Nick Harris]

I knew he was gonna do this.

[Vach Lombardi]

And Dylan Thiena Newman, safety from Oregon. Number two. Number three, Caleb Downs, safety from Ohio State. And at 20 they get Cassius how Edge rusher from Texas A and M. That is option three once again. One is Bain and Allen. Two is Delaine and Thienaman. Three is downs.

[Nick Harris]

And how I'm going to go with the preconceived notion that they add a linebacker in the trade market before the draft. And I love Caleb downs too much even though I don't have how that high. The 20 high. I would say take that pairing. Just because Caleb downs there for you. 12 is a no brainer.

[Chris Beam]

I think Downs and how give you the two best guys. In my personal opinion. Just in my. In my personal.

[Vach Lombardi]

You're pretty high on Hal.

[Chris Beam]

I'm higher on how than probably Nick is. Let's see. Downs is my second guy. Which is high as hell. Yep. And I have. Hal's pretty down my list actually. Hal is like my 22nd guy. So it kind of fits in that range. Fits in that range for. Actually I'm lying now. So the better combo might be for me. Delane being my sixth guy and Thim and being my 17th guy.

[Nick Harris]

That's such a good combo too.

[Chris Beam]

That's a great combo because now.

[Nick Harris]

Because that's two first round grades for me at the end of the day for sure.

[Vach Lombardi]

See, Bane and Allen are two first rounders for me. Delane and Thienaman are two first rounders for me. Downs is the highest out of the six names on that board and Hal is one of the highest second round grades that I have. He's also. He's 21 on my board. So right there. But I would take Caleb downs over pretty much anybody there. And I like the fact that you get Caleb downs in one spot. It's a cherry on top. Whatever you do at 20.

[Chris Beam]

Yeah, for sure.

[Vach Lombardi]

That's just extra. Yeah, that's just something else.

[Chris Beam]

The second best player in the draft. You could take whoever you want. I'm good.

[Nick Harris]

You draft Cole Strange?

[Vach Lombardi]

Yeah. All right, Patriots. We could do all of it.

[Chris Beam]

All right.

[Vach Lombardi]

What's the gap between the levels of linebacker prospects that you see on your board so far? For instance, and he used a couple of these styles to Jacob Rodriguez, Sonny Styles, Ohio State, Jacob Rodriguez from Texas Tech. Especially the gap between J Rod and Hill and Gold Lay and some of these other day three guys as well. Like what is the breakup from the, the linebacker spot?

[Nick Harris]

I guess I don't understand the question.

[Vach Lombardi]

I'm sorry, how. How much of a gap is it between your, your top level prospects and the rest of your linebackers?

[Nick Harris]

Yeah, I have recent. The linebacker conversation. So I have recent styles. Tier one, I would put C.J. allen in like a tier two, and then Anthony Hill at like the bottom of a tier two. And then we start talking about top of tier three with Jacob Rodriguez, Jake Golday. I would throw Kyle Lewis in that conversation.

[Chris Beam]

You know, for that. People would say that you hate Tori and York. People will say that you hate Rodriguez because I'm seeing some people saying that we, we should draft him at 20. I think 20 is a bit high for him. But why wouldn't you put Rodriguez higher?

[Nick Harris]

I just have him in the third tier of linebackers there.

[Chris Beam]

And I agree with you. Yeah, but you know.

[Nick Harris]

Yeah, and why do you have him there? He's. He plays a bit more stiff than some of these other guys at the top. And I'm not saying Jacob Rodriguez is a bad player. I don't need Texas Tech fans in my comments now.

[Vach Lombardi]

They're already going to be there.

[Nick Harris]

But I tell you what, if, if there's a situation where the Cowboys trade back into the late twenties and they pick him up, I wouldn't have a problem with that. At 20 might be a little rich. I think you're going to have a sweet spot of some pass rushers there. That make more sense. And again, I think you're going to have your linebacker on the team before then too.

[Chris Beam]

So I got styles as my 13th player. Allen is my 27th player. Golda is my 33rd. So they're kind of close. There's a bit of distance between Styles and Allen. Golday a little further down. I got trotter as my 42nd player. Hill is my 53rd, Rodriguez is 57. Both those guys are kind of Close. And that goes first round, second round, third round or whatever. Y' all can kind of figure it out from there. I just wanted to get out of numbers associated and I got Jayshawn Barham as linebacker as well. But he's in the. He's 70 for me. Yeah.

[Vach Lombardi]

Casey wants to know which players in the first round would qualify as quote unquote brainworks players that Christian Parker talks about. In your opinion first round plays.

[Nick Harris]

A lot of them. Honestly.

[Chris Beam]

That'll go in the first round or first round. Great.

[Vach Lombardi]

Let's go. First round grades. Why not?

[Chris Beam]

Let's go.

[Nick Harris]

I said go in the first round because 20 is going to be part of the conversation.

[Chris Beam]

That's fine.

[Vach Lombardi]

Whatever you guys want.

[Chris Beam]

Okay.

[Nick Harris]

So C.J. allen, this first one, that's the first

[Vach Lombardi]

one that popped in.

[Chris Beam]

I think Mansoor is very smart. Caleb Downs is very smart.

[Vach Lombardi]

Sonny styles.

[Chris Beam]

Sonny Styles. C.J. allen's very smart. I think Colton Hood feels the game really well. So I would say that he's smart. Thinnerman is smart. I think Wheatley's brilliant. But he's fast with his. Brilliant. Yeah. And his fast may make him seem more brilliant. I don't know. But I would put him in smart as well. I think Emmett Johnson from Nebraska. Yeah. Running back. I think he sees the game well. Really, really well. And he could block and catch.

[Vach Lombardi]

Great vision too.

[Chris Beam]

I think he's smart. Connor Lou is a center. He probably won't go first round. I'm just looking at my. At the top of my second round, guys. I think Kaden Proctor is very interesting with his hands and that could count as smart as offensive lineman.

[Nick Harris]

Give him as a guard or tackle.

[Chris Beam]

He's a. He's a big ass tackle.

[Nick Harris]

I think he could play guard too. I think he might be better at guard.

[Vach Lombardi]

I have him at tackle. But yes, having a 6 foot 7 guard would be interesting.

[Nick Harris]

Yeah. I think if you take away some of the issues that he has athletically around the edge and put it inside and let him kind of work his hand fighting more.

[Chris Beam]

Yeah.

[Nick Harris]

Put him in a phone booth. I think he would be really tough to overcome. Yeah.

[Chris Beam]

Also too cowboy 30 visit wide receiver Omar Cooper. No, he's smart.

[Vach Lombardi]

Okay.

[Chris Beam]

I can tell he's smart just, just by how he says, like how he sets up routes and kind of how they do the little option stuff in that offense or whatever. You have to be smart to do that kind of stuff. So I got Omar Cooper as well.

[Nick Harris]

I was asked yesterday on a different platform about, hey, Omar Cooper, why are they bringing him in for a 30 and I figured I'd answer that here as well.

[Chris Beam]

I asked last week.

[Nick Harris]

Yeah, it's a situation of every year there's two or three guys that the Cowboys will bring in that they think will end up in the division and with Omar Cooper very well can make sense for Philadelphia. If they trade AJ Brown, it can make sense for New York especially with the injury to Malik neighbors shoot. It can make sense for Washington. So I, I that is one that I have immediately pinned is like yeah, I think that's a division like you know, spy job.

[Chris Beam]

But they got two receivers in they in the they in their 30 visits now though, right?

[Nick Harris]

Omar Cooper, who else? I haven't really written them down yet.

[Chris Beam]

Who's the Cathy having is having dinner considered 30 visit?

[Nick Harris]

No.

[Chris Beam]

Oh, don't worry about that. Yeah, but they haven't talking about Josh

[Vach Lombardi]

Cameron, the Baylor wide receiver.

[Chris Beam]

I haven't seen them but they have in dinner with a receiver and I thought that was the same thing.

[Vach Lombardi]

No, that doesn't count as a 30 visit.

[Chris Beam]

So we can go eat with folk but that don't count.

[Vach Lombardi]

Okay.

[Chris Beam]

Hey man, bend the rules, man. Do what you got to do.

[Vach Lombardi]

I don't know if it's bending like I think there's gray areas.

[Chris Beam]

Cowboys having dinner with a hundred people.

[Vach Lombardi]

Yeah. I think it's a part of the pro day process. Like that's where that is considered in terms of meeting.

[Chris Beam]

Whatever you got to do.

[Vach Lombardi]

Yeah, whatever you got to do.

[Chris Beam]

But it's still interesting. We're going to talk to receiver.

[Vach Lombardi]

We're going to look up on draft weekend and your Omar is going to go to a divisional foe and we're going to remember this conversation. People are going to be in the chat pinning this day and pinning this conversation 30 days out. Nick Harris had it pegged he was going to the Philadelphia Eagles or he's going to the New York Giants or wherever he ends up going.

[Chris Beam]

Yeah.

[Vach Lombardi]

So yeah, that'll be fun. Our all right. Josh wants to know who was the most polarizing player in the NFL draft.

[Nick Harris]

Polarizing? Kelk. Falk is certainly up there. There's a lot more hate on Keldrick than I think I'm trying to find one that it's just because of the pass rush production and the pass rush lack of numbers. Well, pass rush specifically he just doesn't have he's really raw. He's going to be 20 when the NFL season starts. He's got this, this amazing athletic frame at 6 foot 6, 276 pounds. But he hasn't really shown he knows how to use it just yet. I am under the belief that, hey, if he ended up getting drafted with the 20th overall pick to this team, that he would be able to, he'd be able to work with two pass rush specialists in BT Jordan and Chidera Uzunaribe and maybe help accelerate that development a little bit. And I think we would look up by the end of his rookie contract and be like, okay, hey, that was a pretty solid pick, but that's going to take time. That's going to take a team that is willing to be patient. And I think he has and I think he has the mindset to be able to eventually be a plus pass rusher in the NFL, but it's going to take time and it's going to take the right development also, too.

[Chris Beam]

I don't quite hate Falk. It's just that Mezador whoop ass right now like he's ready R Mason Thomas. I feel like he can go mellow height can go. So however you got your edges ranked or whatever, I just think that Falk's not a bad player. If you have a coach that'll put him in a role that fits him perfectly, he could be a great player for you. But when you start putting him versus other dudes, he'll just naturally fall down.

[Vach Lombardi]

I have that gut feeling that we're going to be looking up at 20 and Falk is going to be in not in the conversation, but the conversation. I just have that feeling that's going to. And then if he ends up being the pick, we're going to be sitting here on draft weekend also saying, guys, he's a good player, he can do things. He wasn't very productive. We're going to have to kind of play that that card. Even though I think all of us are going to agree there's probably better players on the board at that point.

[Chris Beam]

I would just rather fog be 20 than twitch. I've seen some mocks that got him top 10, which I think is crazy.

[Vach Lombardi]

I don't know about that one. I feel like that one's probably a little bit more out there.

[Chris Beam]

All right, you would rather have me 12 at 20 and 12. I would rather have him at 20. Yeah, I got you.

[Vach Lombardi]

I'm agreeing with you. Yeah.

[Commercial Announcer]

Yeah.

[Vach Lombardi]

I think him at 12 or in the top 10 is wild.

[Chris Beam]

Crazy.

[Vach Lombardi]

All right. When we come back here on the draft show, I actually do have a couple other Twitter questions that we have not gotten to.

[Chris Beam]

Sorry.

[Vach Lombardi]

We're going to answer a couple of those. Plus we're going to we're going to talk about a little bit more of these pro day numbers and some of the things to talk about there as well. More of the draft show right after this.

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[Vach Lombardi]

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[Chris Beam]

He's at the 20, 20, the 10, the 5.

[Vach Lombardi]

Touchdown Cowboys.

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[Vach Lombardi]

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[Vach Lombardi]

is the Dallas Cowboys.com

[Chris Beam]

draft show

[Vach Lombardi]

back here on the Draft show presented by Miller Light. Lone Star Smoke out is back in Arlington April 24th through the 26th. Watch headliners Riley Green, Shabuzzi, Cole Wetzel and more at this three day outdoor country music festival. Plus enjoy barbecue from some of the best pit masters in the country. Get your tick Tickets [e-mail] the official ticketing partner of AT&T Stadium. Back with Fotch Lombardi and Nick Harris. Couple more questions from the Twitter on the 20 segment that we weren't able to get to today. When it comes to the green dot for the Cowboys, Gabe wants to know who is wearing the green dot on defense and what's the possibility of it being a rookie Dallas this year it'll

[Chris Beam]

have to be a dude that they trade for, right? Ideally, if we just assuming what this Parker's defense is going to be, it's going to be closer to calculus and algebra, you know what I'm saying? And I just don't want to throw that on the rookie that's been calling some defense in college, you know what I'm saying? You may have made all the calls in college, but what was your defense versus Christian Parker's defense, you know what I'm saying? I would rather that be a veteran dude that's been in the league and then that veteran guy be the bridge guy for next year. Could your will linebacker do it? I mean, possibly. Could your nickel or something? Could one of your safeties be a a guy like that? I mean, possibly, but I think they want the mic to do it and I think that would have to be some dude that ain't here right now.

[Nick Harris]

Yeah, there's two rookies I would maybe trust in that situation. Sunny Styles, just because he worked under Matt Patricia and then C.J.

[Chris Beam]

allen.

[Vach Lombardi]

Those are 1,000%.

[Chris Beam]

That's it.

[Vach Lombardi]

Yeah, I want to go into some.

[Chris Beam]

Can I add one more? Yeah, yeah. I would say Gold Day because you have to be smart if you play four different positions, you know what I'm saying? Gold, they'll do like both linebacker stuff. He'll do edge things, then he'll play nickel and stuff. I think you have to be somewhat smart if you're doing all that in One game. So I would assume that Gold Day's smart, but the knockout picks there are Sonny and CJ for sure.

[Vach Lombardi]

Golday from Cincinnati is what we're looking at right here on the tape here. I want to talk about day three wide receivers. And Nick, you brought this up in our group message as well because of maybe the conversation that Vox brought up in the last segment with Dallas still having an eye on possibly adding a wide receiver, maybe with one of the multitude of day three picks. Remember, they got a fourth round pick, they've got three fifth round picks and then a seventh round pick. So they have some darts to throw at the dartboard at a possible wide receiver late. Are there names that could possibly be in that conversation already for you? Maybe not for Dallas quite yet, but that you might be keeping an eye on?

[Nick Harris]

Yeah. So, you know, with Jalen Tolbert going to Miami, there's a clear hole there for someone to step up and take a receiver spot on this team. And it could be someone that's already here, whether it be like a Trayshawn Holden, maybe he's, you know, really improved on special teams over the course of his rookie season and can step in and take one of those five spots. But realistically, I think it probably comes from a day three pick in the draft. And so the first question I think we have have to ask is, what kind of receiver does this team need in that, in that role? For me, it would be a bigger guy that can play on special teams and actually have an impact on special teams with a bigger frame. And I, I also want a guy who you can bring in on, hey, it's second down and CD or George Pickens, they need a breath right quick. Can he take a. Can he take a quick route and make a big play out of it? And when you check all those boxes for me, I look at Jeff Caldwell out of Cincinnati, one of the more athletic players not only in this draft from a receiver standpoint, but I think this is the third year I've done the draft show. This is one of the more athletic guys I've seen, period. He is an absolute machine at 6 foot 5, 216 pounds, ran a 431 at the combine, had a 42 inch vert 112 broad, was a transfer from Linden Wood in Division 2 ranks in the Ohio Valley Combat Conference and made his way to Cincinnati for this last season in the Big 12. And there was a little bit of a talent discrepancy obviously between those two programs, but when he got to Cincinnati, he was playing against Big 12 secondaries. You saw that speed, you saw that athleticism still translate. I think there's still some things that he needs to work on in his game. But if you're talking about straight line speed, oh my goodness, he's got it. And if you can find a quarterback that can put the ball under him, a Dak Prescott. And then this is the play right here. Absolutely. Where it's a perfect example of him being able to get it from their quarterback at Cincinnati. I'm blanking right now. Transferred to Tech Lake, Dallas kid, but I don't know.

[Chris Beam]

God.

[Nick Harris]

Brendan Sorsby, but literally like that's.

[Vach Lombardi]

What is it, $10 million man.

[Nick Harris]

Now something insane. We'll probably see him at the Texas Tech pro day throwing some, throwing some routes. But anyway, Jeff Caldwell, you, You see that big frame? I would like to see him work these contested catches a little bit better because he has the frame to really bring them down, especially in red zone scenarios. But still, over the course of his leg last three seasons, he had 24 touchdowns. He's had big plays each of those four years from Lyndon Wood going to Cincinnati. This reminds me a lot of Dante Thorton from last year and I was a big Dante Thorton guy. He ended up getting drafted by the Raiders, of course. So if you're looking for a potential Raiders pick on date three, this one makes sense as well. But I like Jeff Caldwell a lot. And then we've talked about Josh Cameron quite a bit. Receiver out of Baylor. I'll also throw in Eric McAllister, receiver out of TCU production machine. He can have a big game with a ton of chunk production. There was a game early in the season where he ended up with four, four touchdowns, over 250 yards and like 12 receptions. I'm a big Eric McAllister fan as well. I think he's probably, if we're Talking value, day three value, Eric McAllister might be your guy.

[Vach Lombardi]

Could he be one of those guys? Maybe sixth round, seventh round?

[Nick Harris]

I don't think that far deep. I think you're probably.

[Vach Lombardi]

So maybe one of the three fifth round picks then I think you might

[Nick Harris]

have to take him at 112.

[Chris Beam]

Wow.

[Nick Harris]

But if, if you feel good about where you have addressed needs elsewhere on day one and day two and potentially trademark it. I, I think this would be a, I think this would be a great ad. I'm a big Eric McAllister fan. He doesn't have as much speed as you want, but that's why he's in day three. I think he's just a route running machine. He knows how to get open, he knows how to create separation.

[Chris Beam]

Nick Harris brought up a fantastic point that I haven't considered or that I had not considered that you're a day three receiver. Gonna have to play team somewhere. So you either gonna be big enough to tackle or you gonna have to be like a return guy or something like that. So just running, running down some names. This the first name that kind of jumps out to me as, you know, somebody that could be a day three guy. And y' all could stop me at any. Because I know some of my day three guys gonna be day two guys for you. That's the fascinating thing about this wide receiver draft in general. But Ted Hurst stop from Georgia State. I'm just messing with Ted Hurst from Georgia State. The reason he might be senior boy, he's fantastic. But dog he play at Georgia State. Great size 64205. He moves well, run routes really well. For a wide receiver that's tall like that, I think he gets really low in his routes and you don't really see a whole bunch of tall cats be able to know bend or get low or like turn really well. He's not, he's very leggy, but he's not leggy in a way that is like messing with his movement or anything like that. Great, great first step release and all this kind of stuff. I got my notes separated in two categories. Right. Regardless of his competition and because of competition. Right. So regardless of whoever the hell that he's lined up against. Right. He's. He is a nice route runner to be 6 4, smooth route runner for a 6 4. He does make plays down the field. He tracks the ball really well. It don't matter who you lined up against if you tracking the ball plays downfield. It don't matter who you line up against. If you got it, you got it. Hip sync and all that great hands and he's tall regardless of who he's lined up against. That's good to go now because the fact that he's lined up against whoever the hell he's lined up against that they may or may not be in the league, whatever. I don't trust when he's running past people all the time like he makes plays down the field. I don't know if he's going to run past SEC guys or Big Ten guys like that. To Nick's point, he had a really good Senior bowl and all that. Hey, we can go back and watch that film and kind of break that Down. But based on the film that I saw, he was running past dudes that probably won't be in the league. I thought he was a really good yak guy as well to be his size. But he's running over dudes that probably won't be in the league. So you have to think about those things when you watching him play at Georgia State versus whoever. But I don't know if it's down the field speed or if his yakability is going to translate, but just based on the fact that him versus competition, Georgia State, whatever. But I do like him enough. I got him in the fourth round. I got him behind guys like Brazil Lane. Skylar Bell is a guy that I have in the fourth round from I believe, like Florida Atlantic. I believe now he's a guy.

[Vach Lombardi]

Skyler Bell.

[Chris Beam]

Skyler Bell. Yukon. I was looking at the white and blue stuff. You know, the juries mess me up sometimes.

[Vach Lombardi]

One's a Husky, one's an Owl, one's in Florida, one's in.

[Chris Beam]

I don't know all the mascots. I just learned that Idaho had a mascot that just bothered the hell outta me. So let me have this conversation with y'. All. The small dudes that are yak guys.

[Vach Lombardi]

Yeah.

[Chris Beam]

Right. You have to do something that separates them. Skyler Bell is a smaller guy. That's a yak guy.

[Vach Lombardi]

Yep.

[Chris Beam]

Super explosive, but I think he runs routes really well. Productive. They. They get a lot of passes to him. You know what I'm saying?

[Vach Lombardi]

He was their whole offense, the entire offense.

[Chris Beam]

The reason I got him in the fourth is, okay, are you offense dependent? Can you do it by yourself or whatever? That's why I got a him down the fourth. But I think he does separate himself with how he gets open. You know, press coverage. Kind of whoop up on him a little bit. But he's little what you expect. These three guys that I have down here who are also yak guys and smaller guys, but I got them way down my list. They're also day three guys, but they're separate from. Skyler is Kevin Coleman from Missouri, Zach Branch from Georgia, and Brendan Thompson from Mississippi State. I think they all run three. Right. Funny enough, they all run three different routes. You know, Branch is more of a, I'm gonna catch a bubble. I'm gonna catch a slant. I may run an out. I think Thompson is more of a, I'm downfield or a bubble or a slant. Coleman is like, I'll run more of a deep crosser. I'll navigate your slant and catch it late. And like corners or whatever. Right. So they all kind of run three routes to me, but they're all, in their own respect, shorter yet guys. Right?

[Vach Lombardi]

Right. Yeah.

[Chris Beam]

But I don't think they all run routes really well. Bell is a shorter guy that run routes and he runs a ton of different routes and he's somebody's entire offense. These dudes get busy on Bubbles, but I think that they're all day three guys and they'll be like return guys for you. Like, they could be really, really good return guys. So there's your team's return in that regard. But I have those dudes down there because in this draft in particular, which makes it one weird, you got taller yak guys that run routes better than them, that are bigger than them. So like Jeremy Bernard from Bama, he's a bigger yak guy that's also a better route runner than them. So I'm pushing small guys down the board. Surratt is a bigger yak guy that runs routes better than them. CJ Daniels from Miami is a bigger yak guy, and Antonio Williams from Clemson is a bigger yak guy. So now I'm like, damn, dawg, I know a lot of people. Some of our peers, they got some of these smaller yak guys up in day two. I can't put the smaller yet guys in day two because they don't run routes as well as the bigger yet guys and they are better in their offense. And some of These guys are 1,000 yard guys. I believe. Branch, like, what, 600, 400 something.

[Nick Harris]

Brandon Thompson led the SEC in receiving.

[Chris Beam]

In what?

[Nick Harris]

In receiving.

[Chris Beam]

How many yards he has?

[Nick Harris]

A thousand.

[Chris Beam]

I must be thinking about. I must be thinking about branching that way. But.

[Nick Harris]

But, yeah, but Branch had a lot of yards too.

[Chris Beam]

Yeah, yeah, something like that. So the problem with that, I have in this draft, stacking these guys and Kyle, you really ain't asked this, but I'm pushing those guys down to day three because I feel like I can find yet guys that run routes that are bigger in day two somewhere.

[Vach Lombardi]

Does this not go back to the conversation of high floor versus low floor, high ceiling, that kind of conversation? Because you're talking about. Again, back to the film that we talked about in the first segment too, of. You're watching the film and you're seeing what they did. They ran three routes, they did different things well, but at the end of the day, they're still similarly built. As fast as fast. Smaller, smaller guys, Yak guys. When I look at Zachariah Branch and I look at what he did well. The speed, the acceleration, my Gosh, he goes zero to 60 really, really quickly. I thought his hands were solid. I thought, of course he's got the yards after the catcher ability. He had some return game. Because you talked about special teams element. He was utilized in the return game on those screen passes a lot. I do agree with you. He ran, ran two or three routes and he was most dangerous off of screenplays. What was the number you gave?

[Nick Harris]

48 of his production at Georgia came on screen routes.

[Vach Lombardi]

That's wild. That's wild.

[Chris Beam]

That's.

[Vach Lombardi]

Most of it is half of his production.

[Chris Beam]

If you got 10 targets, five almost,

[Vach Lombardi]

you're on a bubble screen now. That's. That's how they used him. And he was in an offense that had some other bigger wide receivers outside of it. A couple of those guys went to, what was it, the, the Shrine Game. I think it was Dylan Bell and Kobe Young. Those are the. So he had three other wide receivers or two other wide receivers in a tight end that are NFL draft bound that he was having to share the rock with. And those were bigger bodied, outside x traditional built wide receivers. Then you've got Zachariah Branch who was used kind of as a gadget guy. I don't think they asked him to do more than three things.

[Chris Beam]

Sure.

[Vach Lombardi]

So in my opinion, I see the traits and I see his ability and I see where he's going to fit in a system that. Where if you can utilize him even in two more ways. Let's say he does five routes and he adds two more branches to his route tree. I didn't mean to do that one. Thanks. But you add two more to the route tree.

[Chris Beam]

Just say branches again.

[Vach Lombardi]

Yeah, branches. Then I think he's automatically going to be a weapon at the next level because of the traits and because of what he brings.

[Chris Beam]

This is my problem. You're not wrong. You can probably develop Zachariah Branch into more of a, you know, some guy. But. But if you take him in day two.

[Vach Lombardi]

Exactly.

[Chris Beam]

Now I'm like, now you're depending on

[Vach Lombardi]

where you're taking him.

[Chris Beam]

So now I'm like, oh boy. KC Concepcion run a whole bunch of routes and he's a yak guy. You know what I'm saying? Bernard Cooper, like all. You see what I'm saying? So it's where you put them. And I'm like, man, I got a better dude to do that. So it's not like I hate these guys. They just fall down my list because other guys do their job bigger.

[Vach Lombardi]

Yeah, he's got one of those three, four cheater grades for me right now and I'll clean that up when we get closer to draft week. But that's why, because I don't expect him to come in and immediately be a franchise wide receiver. One of these top end starters. He's going to be in a rotation and he's going to be used in certain gadget situations as a rookie and then on special teams as a rookie.

[Chris Beam]

Let me ask y' all this. If y' all put Turpin in a college player's body and put him in this draft, where would you draft him?

[Vach Lombardi]

2 that's a good question.

[Chris Beam]

Cause I think some of these guys are, are going to be Turpin type guys where they got a big player game, a bubble and like another thing and then they going to go lean on somebody. Other receivers go do stuff.

[Vach Lombardi]

I'd probably put them right around where I'd have Branch in the fours. Yeah, three, four, something like that.

[Nick Harris]

I just, I don't value the, the return game as some people do.

[Chris Beam]

Me neither.

[Nick Harris]

I'd put him in like the fifth.

[Chris Beam]

That's why I got these guys.

[Vach Lombardi]

The, the thought there is if we're talking about Turpin coming out or whatever it ends up you're saying knowing what we know now about his development, tcu,

[Chris Beam]

Turpin is a different guy than how the Cowboys use him.

[Vach Lombardi]

That's kind of what I was saying. Like I, I would want more receiver ability which I think I'll get from Zachariah Branch. I don't we haven't seen that from Kevonte Turpin. He hasn't developed as a receiver the same way. He is a one trick returning pony that you can just kind of roll with on special teams.

[Nick Harris]

Yeah, I think the fascinating thing with these guys as well as you talk about, hey, if you only have three routes you can run, sometimes you can't even rely on those three routes because opposing defense coordinators in the NFL, they'll know that and they'll jam the hell out of you at the line. And if you're a little guy, you're not getting out of that. And we've seen so many of these speed return guys who are productive at the college know can't quite find their footing in the NFL because of that. So I, I, I, I align with Voch's thinking here. As far as you know, these guys probably being comfortably day three. I will say I like Zachariah Branch's physicality a bit more than the others. So I Have him as a third. But I saw a mock draft this morning from field Yates at espn.

[Chris Beam]

What'd he say?

[Nick Harris]

He had Brennan Thompson in the second round.

[Chris Beam]

That's heavy.

[Nick Harris]

In the second round to Las Vegas or where the Philadelphia Eagles.

[Chris Beam]

I love it. Take it shouts out to you.

[Nick Harris]

He actually grew up in Eagles fan. His mom would love that. But yeah, that would be. That would be wild. That'd be wild.

[Chris Beam]

A couple more names just because we at the end man. Cyrus Allen from Cincinnati, who's another Cincinnati guy. He's a little dude that can run route. So I'm kind of separating him a little bit in that way. Not as much of a yak guy as some of these other guys. He's a cool yak guy, but he's not, you know, he's not a yak guy like them. I just value. I value route running and. And Malachi Fields will probably tackle the hell out somebody now. I don't know where people gonna put him, but he does. Nick. He doesn't test well. But on his film, like, he wasn't all that fast on film neither. But if you're looking for a day three receivers gonna do catch ready stuff, jump ball stuff, and he is big enough to probably go out there and hit somebody on teams. Whatever. Malachi Field's another day three guy for me. And you shouldn't scout the helmet, but I do with Tennessee wide receivers. I like Chris Browns, but he's a Tennessee wide receiver receiver. So I got him in the fourth

[Nick Harris]

because I'm go back and watch his previous tape at other spots. I. I think you'll still. You'll. You'll like Brazel still.

[Chris Beam]

Let me tell you something. I like Brazil.

[Nick Harris]

Yeah.

[Chris Beam]

Contestant catches down the field. He jump over people.

[Vach Lombardi]

He be.

[Chris Beam]

He'd be bullying folk. I get it. But I'm a coward. And that and that Tennessee stuff just don't be sitting right with me, man. I'm leaving where I got him.

[Vach Lombardi]

I'm interested to see how you guys lean on this.

[Commercial Announcer]

I've.

[Vach Lombardi]

I've found myself liking this draft class more the deeper I get into from wide receiver specifically. Like, at first I looked at it and I was like, man, yeah, you've got Jordan Tyson and Carnell Tate, and I like those guys a lot. Makai Lemon's a really good player, but outside of that, it's a lot of other guys in my opinion, because I have Chris Bell up there, Denzel Boston up there, Bell from Louisville, Boston from Washington.

[Chris Beam]

Bill's nice.

[Vach Lombardi]

He's very fun.

[Chris Beam]

Aco good Player.

[Vach Lombardi]

Exactly. So I have the names up toward the top, but I never really looked at this one wide receiver class as being the high level wide receiver class that we've seen in the past where 10 guys can go in the top 50 picks.

[Nick Harris]

I think. Oh, I'm sorry. I thought you were done.

[Vach Lombardi]

No, no, no. I. The more I get into it, though, I look at early portions of day three, the fourth and fifth round guys. I think there's a lot of possibility there. There's a lot of talent there. I mean, whether it's the Omar Coopers that you mentioned from Indiana or the Fields from Notre Dame. And Cameron, who I really like out of Baylor, even Ted Hurst from Georgia State, as Voch mentioned. I'm high on him too. Like. Like there's guys in that fourth, Fifth. Sixth round that I think are going to come in and make rosters immediately at wide receiver.

[Nick Harris]

Yeah, I. I don't feel great about the day two talent at receiver, but the day one, day three.

[Vach Lombardi]

Yes.

[Nick Harris]

I think there's a huge.

[Vach Lombardi]

I agree with you.

[Nick Harris]

I think there's a huge.

[Chris Beam]

Where they probably. Where they probably end up drafting, drafted or like board stuff, because I think they like. I'm.

[Nick Harris]

Board stuff.

[Vach Lombardi]

Board stuff.

[Chris Beam]

I'm just. I'm just looking at. Okay. Because I'm looking at, man, I'm looking at my board, man. Day two is where all my guys at. Concepcion, Cooper, Bernard, Surratt. Bell's hurt. But Bell's film is fantastic. Boston, C.J. daniels talked about him. Williams, Berkeley.

[Nick Harris]

It's some.

[Chris Beam]

Some dudes.

[Vach Lombardi]

I only have six day two grades at receiver.

[Nick Harris]

Interesting.

[Vach Lombardi]

I only have six day two grades. You mentioned most of them right there. Bell, Branch, Concepcion, Brazil. Those are kind of the guys there. Everybody else, like, when I look at fourth and fifth round only, I've got 14.

[Chris Beam]

Damn.

[Vach Lombardi]

Like, there's. I mean, it is loaded there. In that middle, that middle part of

[Chris Beam]

day three, we got C.J. daniels from Miami, fourth, a six, two yak guy whooping that. People in the chat hate me saying yak, route runner and all that. Fourth round.

[Nick Harris]

Okay, I'll go back. I'll go back for you.

[Chris Beam]

I have him in.

[Vach Lombardi]

I have him in the fifth, so I need to go back a little bit.

[Chris Beam]

It's almost April. Y' all ain't gotta go back. We, We. We. We're running.

[Nick Harris]

I got time to go back.

[Chris Beam]

Okay.

[Vach Lombardi]

I don't know why. I. I saw him in person when they played smu. Yeah, I wasn't super blown away by that.

[Chris Beam]

I think him and Antonio Williams are so slick. They might be. These two might be top five route runners in the class.

[Vach Lombardi]

I have Williams much higher.

[Chris Beam]

I value route runners, though. Yeah. You know what I'm saying? And y' all may like, you know, shorter people that catch bubbles and stuff, you know what I'm saying? But it's, you know, whatever y' all like, you know what I'm saying?

[Vach Lombardi]

I like it. All right, that does it for us here on the draft show. We got to get out of here. Appreciate you as always. We will be back on Thursday. Right now, are we.

[Chris Beam]

Is. Is Nick going to be here?

[Vach Lombardi]

Nick is not here. It is just you and I and possibly a special guest.

[Chris Beam]

We going to figure it out. If it's just me and you guys.

[Vach Lombardi]

Oh, I know.

[Chris Beam]

No pressure. I could talk all day to Chad.

[Vach Lombardi]

No special guest might be the phone line. Who knows? We're going to see what ends up happening, but we have somebody lined up. I'm going to keep it a secret for now, though, that we would have on Thursday, but that does it for us for Vaux Lombardi, Nick Harris, Chris Beam in the back of Kyle Yeoman saying, so along from the draft show, we will see you on Thursday. This has been a production of Dallas Cowboys.com and the Dallas Cowboys Football club.

[Chris Beam]

How about this? Cowboys.

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