Dan (2:29)

Scott's bread and butter in the early 2000s, making infomercials for MLMs.

Scott Wilson (2:37)

As a cameraman, I've had the good fortune to do a lot of travel and shoot a lot of different cameras. You know, widely varied things. Freelance production's kind of funny because I look back and it comes in waves. Sometimes you're doing a whole lot of one subject, and then it just goes away, and then there's another wave. And so MLM was definitely a wave for me back, I think about 2000s to about 2008.

Dan (3:00)

And what are the other waves you've participated in?

Scott Wilson (3:04)

I've shot a lot of shows that ended up on HGTV that I just call home shows. Oh, fun. Like America's most outrageous homes. There's a series called you'd live in Watt where people converted something into a home. There was cool pools, America's spookiest Homes. So that's been a wave. The thing I'm currently deep into right now is a weird subject, and it's golf. Back in 2004, for three seasons, I shot a golf travel show and got to where I really enjoyed the subject and so continued to do work for, like, PGA of America and now the Texas Golf hall of Fame. I produce all the media that goes onto their site. It's an online museum, an online exhibit. So that's researching people doing this, connecting, and getting them to tell their career story and doing video and photography and everything.

Dan (3:53)

I want your job. Yeah, that's a fun career.

Scott Wilson (3:58)

Yeah. You know, it's my. My adult son has gone to this business, and I want to tell him, you can't raise a family doing this. But it's like, I did, and I say, that's wrong. That's where all my hair went.

Dan (4:08)

You're like, come on, be serious, son.

Scott Wilson (4:11)

I know. Yeah. Get a real profession. So certainly the help of my wife, and she's currently working in a children's hospital in Dallas.

Dan (4:20)

Oh, wow. Okay.

Scott Wilson (4:21)

And, yeah. Yeah. So definitely a team effort.

Dan (4:31)

How did you get involved in making videos for mlm?

Scott Wilson (4:37)

The story is there's a company or there was a company in an area called Lake Dallas called Video Plus. And so as a freelancer, you're always just trying to meet companies that need to hire freelance cameramen. You get referrals. I think I was referred through someone who rented camera equipment to this company.

Dan (4:55)

When you first got started in the MLM world, did you know what MLMs were?

Scott Wilson (5:01)

No, I did not. You know, I was definitely aware of brands like Avon, and I'd always Heard about Avon parties and little small lipstick samples and things like that. But I wasn't aware of what an MLM structure is and how it works. So I'm sure my first times hired to shoot is just a typical shoot day. Here's someone to interview, here's a list of B roll, you know, days done.

Dan (5:27)

So what kind of stuff were you.

Scott Wilson (5:28)

Shooting when it came to mlms? A big part that we would film is called the success story. So picture a two person crew, there'd be a cameraman and then the other person does audio and grip helps you with lighting or reflectors or things. And then there's a producer. So if we're doing a success story locally, we'd show up at someone's house at about 8am and kind of spend the day with them.

Dan (5:54)

There's a pet acting like a pet in the background. So if you hear that, that's what it is.

Scott Wilson (5:59)

Oftentimes we would travel to shoot success stories. The interesting thing was even at that stage for me I wasn't so focused on what their product was because I'm not handling the content, I'm not doing the interview and the context. I'm there to make sure the shots beautiful. It's in focus and split right. You know, focusing just on camera work. So oftentimes I travel and really kind of not even know what the product or client is. Just knowing that we're shooting a success story today.

Dan (6:26)

Right. So you just need it to look.

Scott Wilson (6:28)

Pretty and yeah, yeah, that looked professional. Real high end professional. And the success story is usually start in the morning outside someone's house. We want to show a big beautiful house and they've had all the landscaping done the day before, you know, mode and everything. And then we go inside and we sit down and do a long interview. And that's where the producer is really kind of getting their success story, their, you know, their, their career. Our days of filming a success story often involved around the kids are coming home from school at 3:30, so we want, you know, clean them up, posh them up, change clothes. We're going to do a family scene. That would be funny sometimes when you know, the kid doesn't want to do it and you're standing in the living room just kind of waiting for the parents and the kids to come to an agreement before we pick up the camera and go oh my gosh. A lot of also what we would do is film a staged. I mean I keep calling it meeting. I'm trying to remember what they would call it. Almost like A house party. You know, when you would have your friends over, you would show them the product. Avon is a perfect example. We would need to stage house parties. And then afterwards we do B roll. They'll give us a home tour. They'll walk us through this amazing kitchen, living room, guest rooms. And then oftentimes after that, we end up on their boat or in their Mercedes car. One gentleman, this was early when there's this crazy thing where you could have a little earbud in your ear and not have a wire to your phone. And this gentleman would go to his golf club and go to the putting green. And so while he's putting all day, he's handling phone calls and motivating his downline, doing his work. And we'd film stuff like that too.

Dan (8:09)

Did they actually own this stuff? Did you believe them?

Scott Wilson (8:13)

You know, certainly you learn down the line that like the Mercedes they're showing off is a lease. You know, they're not. They would never kind of reveal on camera. That situation could be tenuous. It just always came across as, you know, two years ago, I was middle management at some company. I got turned onto this product and now look at my house, look at my boat, look at my family. So it was always presented as pure success, no questions asked.

Dan (8:42)

I am so jealous that you got to be inside these people's worlds and heads and houses and boats and cars. Any private jets, you know, recently after.

Scott Wilson (8:54)

This wave, there was one other gentleman that he piloted his own private jet and we flew around the country where he would land and do surprise visits while people were having a meeting or so. And a lot of cult of personality. Yeah, you know, big personalities, motivational speaking, but a lot of as much attention on, you gotta follow this guy as much as you gotta sell this product.

Dan (9:20)

Give me the goss. I want to hear like the top 10 weirdest things you got to see on the inside.

Scott Wilson (9:27)

Oh, goodness. Let me think. As far as far as weird, you know, some. Again, some amazing houses. Sometimes people showing off their art collection in the house. Oh, and I do got a frame. You know, when I say this was about 2000 to 2008, this was really before smartphones and really before shared video. We're coming in there with high end Betacam, broadcast quality cameras, lighting and audio. And so we're creating for them a really highly polished finished product. Again, of success.

Dan (10:05)

Were those to be put on DVDs and sold to the downline or how were they getting distributed?

Scott Wilson (10:11)

Yeah, in fact, I'll share a quick story. In addition to producing Videos on site. We would also film the large event meetings. We're a product. We're going to have a meeting in Dallas. You bring three of your best prospects, we're going to wow them. And it's going to be at a huge ballroom in a big hotel and it's going to almost look like an Aerosmith concert. It is lighting and pyro going off and music rocking and just really getting people up out of their seats and cheering and, and so speakers would get up and talk, motivational speakers who, you know, have success within the company. And I remember one gentleman talked about the dvd, the power of the dvd. And you know, they would address your objections. Oh, I can never be successful as you, I can't do this. And he says, yeah, you might be telling me you're not good at speaking or you're not good at convincing, but guess what, I've got a salesman for you that is on message all the time, 24 7, never takes a rest. And, and all you have to do is introduce people to the salesman and it's a dvd. And that was the currency at the time. So a produced DVD that spelled out all of the opportunity, all of the product, all of the machinations.

Dan (11:25)

Yeah.

Scott Wilson (11:27)

And the, the thing he stressed, he says, my success came from I gave out two DVDs every day. He said I was traveling, I was in Omaha or something. It was 11:30 at night and in my hotel room and I realized only giving out one dvd, I put on my clothes, I went downstairs, I found a 7 11, I found someone before midnight and handed out my second DVD. I'm that devoted to this style of selling and it'll be successful for you.

Dan (11:54)

It's like a door to door influencer.

Scott Wilson (11:58)

It is, it is. And of course the flip side of that, that they're not saying on stage is you need to buy these DVDs right. To distribute. We're not giving them to you for free. Right.

Dan (12:09)

When I asked that question, I was like, did I just say that, that you'd have to. That they would be selling them. But of course they're going to sell them to the downline.

Scott Wilson (12:17)

Oh yeah, yeah, yeah, absolutely. Always there's as, as you've even covered, there's always materials, there's always training sessions, there's always stuff you need to put the money into and, and you're supposed to be the one reaping the success.

Dan (12:31)

Which companies did you film for?

Scott Wilson (12:34)

You know, a lot of what I started with was prepaid legal. I don't know if you're familiar with them. They're out of Ada, Oklahoma, which was about a three hour drive from Dallas. Products and companies like Manatech, you know, a lot of them fall into what they call the powders, potions and lotions. So manatech ignite. I have Mona V. Ardus, which I think was a body shaping undergarment.

Dan (13:01)

Yes.

Scott Wilson (13:02)

Isagenix might have been the same.

Dan (13:04)

Isagenix is like a diet shake thing.

Scott Wilson (13:08)

Oh wow.

Dan (13:10)

Did you catch that? He was on set filming a commercial for a company that he knows the name of, Isagenix, but he doesn't know what the product is because you know, as we always say in mlm, the product doesn't matter.

Scott Wilson (13:28)

Limu Juice, which I just looked up the other day because out of all of this work and everything I did, I. I can't call myself victim because I did it myself. But I purchased Lima Juice. At some point I agreed to get out my debit card and probably signed up for about 300 something bucks for a case that would get shipped to my house in Texas. Even by the time I received it and when I was home, I was like, ah, idiot, what have you done? And most of it sat in its case in the pantry and probably turned rancid.

Dan (14:11)

It's that time of year again. The holidays are coming fast. And if your kids are anything like mine, that wish list is getting pretty long. Let's be honest, some of the things on that list make us stop and think. Like a smartphone. Do they actually need all that stuff to stare at? Well, no, they don't just get them a gab. I got one for my kid. It has tracking, which I only look at every once in a while. Cause I don't like to spy on her. It has a phone number, very helpful. And it has a list of people you can text that I approve. Plus I can spy on the text, which I don't do. Haven't had to yet. But if something weird comes in on one of those texts, I do get a notification. And then I look and it's just some dumb YouTube makeup video that the Gab phone doesn't let you watch. So win, win, win, win, win, win. I love it. Gab offers phones and watches made just for kids. No Internet, no social media, and just the right features for their age. Kids want phones to feel independent and connected. And as parents, we want to know they're safe. With Gab, you can have both and protect them from the scary stuff. With Gab's tech in steps approach, kids get the right tech at the right time. From watches with GPS tracking for the youngest explorers to the perfect first phone with no Internet or social media to the teen phones with parent approved apps. So get ready for a Christmas morning they'll never forget the one where they get their first phone. And really, it's a gift for you too because these kidsafe phones will give you peace of mind. Visit gab.comthedream and use code thedream for a special holiday offer. That's G-A-B-B.com thedream Gab Tech in steps independence for them. Peace of mind for you.

Capital One Bank Guy (15:46)

Banking with Capital One helps you keep more money in your wallet with no fees or minimums on checking accounts and no overdraft fees. Just ask the Capital One bank guy. It's pretty much all he talks about in a good way. He'd also tell you that this podcast is his favorite podcast too. Ah really? Thanks Capital One Bank Guy. What's in your wallet? Term supply See capitalone.com bank Capital One.

Paige Desorbo (16:10)

NA Member FDIC Hey, I'm Paige Desorbo and I'm always thinking about underwear.

Hannah Berner (16:17)

I'm Hannah Berner and I'm also thinking about underwear, but I prefer full coverage. I like to call them my granny panties.

Paige Desorbo (16:23)

Actually, I never think about underwear. That's the magic of Tommy John.

Hannah Berner (16:27)

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Paige Desorbo (16:31)

And the bras? Soft, supportive and actually breathable.

Hannah Berner (16:35)

Yes. Lord knows the girls need to breathe. Also, I need my PJs to breathe and be buttery, soft and stretchy enough for my dramatic tossing and turning at night. That's why I live in my Tommy John pajamas.

Paige Desorbo (16:46)

Plus they're so cute because they fit perfectly.

Hannah Berner (16:50)

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Hannah Berner (17:45)

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Scott Wilson (18:03)

Goji berry was another one that we did a lot for. We even flew to Los Angeles and had a Tibetan monk looking actor and got costume from Hollywood shop and went to a what like a Japanese botanical garden and film filmed him on the little wooden bridge handing over some parchment to whoever is the, you know, American founder of. Of a goji berry juice. You know, again, just making movies. Just the persuasive power of. Of high quality video to tell a story.

Dan (18:36)

What were they trying to convey with that actor?

Scott Wilson (18:41)

I think in that story the, the founder of whatever that MLM was is talking about. I traveled to Mongo. I learned the secrets of the goji berry from the Tibetan monks. And that, you know, they handed me the secrets and now I'm here to share them with you for 39.99amonth or whatever their sign up is.

Dan (19:03)

Any others that stand out like that?

Scott Wilson (19:06)

I have Herbalife, Avon, Free Life. I don't know the company, but there were wearable air filters like a leash around your neck. And you're wearing this air filter and portable alarms, water filters for your home, you know, and those sold very well in Louisiana. I remember traveling to Louisiana where you have a lot of chemical plants and stuff. And so they insist, you know, your tap water. We're going to protect you from all the toxins with our product.

Dan (19:40)

Do any characters stand out besides the monk?

Scott Wilson (19:45)

Let me think here that the gentleman who did the two DVDs a day, the monk. I had to make a list of aphorisms because certainly to be on camera or to be on stage and to motivate people and to sell them, you need some quick rapid fire. Go to them. And they always end with follow my program. You're gonna make money. So I'd start with Jane, if you don't stand for something, you'll fall for anything. Follow my program, you're going to make money. You know, Jane, failure to make a plan is just a plan for failure. Follow, follow my program. You're going to make money. I walked into my boss's office on a Monday and said, you're fired. How many of you want to fire your boss? We're going to do it together, people. Monday morning. Follow my program, you're going to make money. This one I think I've even heard on your show. I'm like a turtle on top of a fence post. You don't know how I got there, but you know I had help on the way up. I'm here to help you folks. Follow my program.

Dan (20:39)

Fire your boss. Retire your husb. That's a big one.

Scott Wilson (20:43)

Yes. Yeah, I've got a few more. There's one. It's not a vacation. It's a vacation. You're getting paid while you're sitting on the beach. Another one that I couldn't believe. I wish I could remember who said this, but they said, in one year, we took this thing from bricks and mortar to clicks and order. We're online, people. We're on the Internet worldwide 24. 7. Follow my program, you're going to make money. Two more. I was always sick and tired of feeling sick and tired. That's a big one. And then I love this one. You could be from Yale or you could be from jail. It doesn't matter. Follow my program, you're gonna make money.

Dan (21:17)

The damn lady, Jesse Lee Ward, God rest her soul, who was on our season last season, said that to me. Yes.

Scott Wilson (21:26)

Really? Yale or jail?

Dan (21:30)

Yeah, it doesn't matter, I guess. Oh, that's funny. I like that that was just given to her that she was basically. This was during a live interview. We were just chatting and she wasn't pitching me anything. Cause she knew I was anti mlm, but she just. She was so practiced at these sayings that it just flew out of her mouth. Out of context.

Scott Wilson (21:51)

It just flows.

Dan (21:52)

Yeah. So weird. So tell me more about your Lima juice experience.

Scott Wilson (22:01)

Yeah, I know. Again, as a two man crew and a producer, I know we had traveled out of the state. I know that the person we're doing a success story about was a woman. And you know, who knows why you always go in kind of with your guard up knowing that, hey, you're going to get sold at some point today. This is, you know, this is what they do at secondary school.

Dan (22:22)

Say more about that. Just what it feels like to be around pitchmen all the time.

Scott Wilson (22:28)

I'll give you a great example. Is that in doing a success story after you've done the home tour and the interview next, the producer says, hey, Scott, get in his Mercedes with him. We need some shots of him driving on the phone, hands on the wheel. And while you're gone, we're going to set up our next thing, you know, like a mock meeting or something. So that's where, as a cameraman, I'm suddenly alone with the MLM successful person in their car. I'm in the front passenger seat trying to wiggle my camera around. Yeah, yeah. And get an angle of them. And I always tell my friends, it's like I could count down. Three, two, one. Here it comes. Hey, Scott, how heavy is that camera? Well, it's. It's. It's heavy. You know, you think you're going to be a cameraman the rest of your life? Well, you know, that's. That's the plan. I enjoy it. You know, supplementing that camera income may be just the perfect thing for you. And I'm like, you know, I need to film you driving and not talking out loud. We can't use footage of your mouth moving. So for the next 20 seconds, just stay quiet. And we're going to take some turns and things here, and then you can.

Dan (23:34)

Go back to your pitch. But did you feel like you had your guard up? I just wonder the evolution of this. Did you know at the beginning that you were going to be pitched and did you have any idea that this was a scam?

Scott Wilson (23:48)

I did. I didn't know at the beginning that I was gonna be pitched. Like I said, most times I'm hired as a cameraman. It's just a commodity. Are you available Tuesday? It's a full day. Are you available the next three days? We're gonna travel to St. Louis. Okay. And you often don't know what you're filming. As I got into the MLMs, of course, I was exposed to the sales side of it. Hey, this is amazing. People, you know, from all walks of life, if they get involved in this, if they work hard, they make money. We're filming success stories. These people must be successful. And I guess more as I went along in it and got exposed to it and started learning about it, you do start to realize what a challenge and a struggle it is to break even, let alone make money. Most people talk about and know that unless you're the original 10 or 5 founding the company, you're always, you know, paying it up, right? The pyramid. You're. You know, the other thing I learned, of course, of a lot of people doing training is sometimes they would get honest and say, you know, selling the product's fine, but if you're going to have success, You've got to develop downline. And that's the real emphasis is you got to call everyone in your family, got to be in your downline, cousins, second cousins, downline, everyone you're working with. It's got to be in your downline. And they, they tout it as like guaranteed residual income. And there's kind of never a talk about if they, if they get in your downline, they might leave. That was like never a prospect. Just this idea of once you have them in your downline, look at these numbers I'm putting up. You're going to be making money hand over foot every month automatic. You don't even have to work it anymore. Build that downline one time, you don't have to work.

Dan (25:31)

Isn't there like a work. It works if you work it or something like that?

Scott Wilson (25:36)

Yes, yes. Or the program works for you if you work the program or something like that.

Dan (25:41)

Yeah. And there's never any talk of the people in your downline not being able to build a replicable downline. You're supposed to recruit someone and then they recruit five others, but most of the time they don't.

Scott Wilson (25:53)

Right, right, right. And there was, you know, seminars and things I filmed that was kind of Train the Trainer, where the super successful person is trying to give you the tips on how to motivate and train your downline. But it's, you know, it, it kind of turns into a zero sum game.

Dan (26:12)

So how quickly did you kind of catch on that something was going weird? Like, did you, did it take you a while to understand that this was scammy?

Scott Wilson (26:26)

I guess pretty quickly.

Dan (26:28)

Do you remember, like, the first time you were like, wait a minute, I'm making propaganda.

Scott Wilson (26:34)

Yeah, yeah, yeah. That it dawned on me. I'm not sure because, I mean, I have to be honest and say from my end as a freelancer, I'm filming something, turning over the tapes, and that's all my involvement. I'm not doing the editing or the music or the graphics or finishing it up. I really am just there to shoot and turn over the tapes. So maybe my exposure and involvement wasn't as deep as people, you know, who ran the companies or produced the media. One of the things I learned, and I do want to share it with you, is off camera, there would be conversations, you would hear people talking. And one of the things that comes up is the threat of taking your large downline and going to another product. And that to me was, was the juicy. Say more was kind of hearing about, yeah, okay, like, I'm Number five in this company that we founded three years ago, I've built a huge downline. I've got my success story, my house, my boat. But within that company, they're going a direction that I don't like. Well, if they don't listen to me and take my advice, I'm going to take my entire downline and of 9am tomorrow morning, we're selling another product.

Dan (27:43)

They would be talking about this in what context?

Scott Wilson (27:46)

You know, I assume like in any part of corporate America, there's always a bit of intrigue about what's going on with jobs and power. But I did kind of get exposed to the idea that it doesn't matter that the product I can take this downline that does everything I say and by tomorrow morning say we're no longer selling this lotion, we're selling this energy drink.

Dan (28:10)

Now that you know how the whole industry works, if you're a greedy, soulless person, that's a good idea because you would have to make your downline buy the product. So moving to a different future, great for your bottom line.

Scott Wilson (28:29)

I would agree. Everybody downline has to start stocking up on the product or even just the demo sales items and stuff.

Dan (28:35)

And yeah, huge, huge payday. We'll be right back. You're standing on the beach when you notice something strange. The horizon doesn't look right at first. All you can see is a thin white line. Then the line starts to rise. You realize it's not the horizon at all. It's a 30 foot tall wall of water and it's racing straight toward you. What would you do on the day after Christmas? In 2004, a 9.1 magnitude earthquake hit off the coast of Indonesia, triggering a devastating tsunami. It struck Thailand without warning. No alarms, no cell phone alerts, no evacuation. In this season of against the Odds, experience one of the deadliest natural disasters in history through the perspectives of those who did everything they could to survive. Follow against the Odds on the Wondery app or wherever you get your podcasts. You can binge all episodes of against the Tsunami in Thailand early and ad free right now on Wonder.

Capital One Bank Guy (29:32)

Banking with Capital One. Helps you keep more money in your wallet with no fees or minimums on checking accounts and no overdraft fees. Just ask the Capital One bank guy. It's pretty much all he talks about in a good way. He'd also tell you that this podcast is his favorite podcast too. Ah, really? Thanks. Capital One Bank Guy. What's in your wallet? Term supply. See capital1.com bank capital1NA member FDIC.

Paige Desorbo (29:59)

Hey, I'm Paige Desorbo, and I'm always thinking about underwear.

Hannah Berner (30:03)

I'm Hannah Berner, and I'm also thinking about underwear, but I prefer full coverage. I like to call them my granny panties.

Paige Desorbo (30:09)

Actually, I never think about underwear. That's the magic of Tommy John.

Hannah Berner (30:13)

Same. They're so light and so comfy. And if it's not comfortable, I'm not wearing it.

Paige Desorbo (30:17)

And the bras? Soft, supportive, and actually breathable.

Hannah Berner (30:21)

Yes. Lord knows the girls need to breathe. Also, I need my PJs to breathe and be buttery, soft, and stretchy enough for my dramatic tossing and turning at night. That's why I live in my Tommy John pajamas.

Paige Desorbo (30:32)

Plus, they're so cute because they fit perfectly.

Hannah Berner (30:36)

Put yourself on to Tommy John.

Paige Desorbo (30:37)

Upgrade your drawer with Tommy John. Save 25% for a limited time at tommyjohn.comfortc site for details.

Capital One Bank Guy (30:46)

Did I talk too much?

Scott Wilson (30:47)

Can't I just let it go? Wish I would stop.

Capital One Bank Guy (30:50)

Thank you so much.

Dan (30:55)

Take a breath. You're not alone. Let's talk about what's going on. Counseling helps you sort through the noise with qualified professionals, and online therapy makes it convenient. See if it's for you. Visit betterhelp.com random podcast for 10% off your first month of online therapy and let life feel better. What was the most fun you had?

Scott Wilson (31:23)

You know, let me see. You know, being on a boat at sunset on some lake was a lot of fun. And. And it's funny, you know, that as the cameraman, you, the editor only needs, like, three shots, but you're literally spending two hours to get on the boat and go out to the setting and, you know, wait for the beautiful light and everything. So, yeah, that part's kind of fun. Not only filming around the US but we have filmed in the Bahamas, if I remember right. Certainly Hawaii. And then as a golf fan, I even got to travel and film one in St. Andrew, Scotland.

Dan (32:01)

Beautiful. So were there ever moments where you did feel like you were maybe participating in something sketchy? And I know you're a freelancer, so you're trying to do a good job and be the right guy for the job so you get the job next time, right? You were ultimately profiting off of the downline yourself, right? I don't know. Did you ever think about that at the time? You've clearly recognized it by now or you wouldn't be talking to me, of all people, right?

Scott Wilson (32:29)

Yeah, I've recognized it by now. I hate to say it. I can't say that I Had sleepless nights. I've got more of a political footing now and certainly I'm older, I'm successful, my kids are grown. So I can turn down work, right? And I do do that now. I ask more questions. I've got a little more say in what I want to take and not do. At that time, it was a single income in my house. My kids were young. And yeah, if you're called for a shoot, if you turn it down, someone else is gonna take it. And so yeah, you turn down a shoot, someone else is gonna do that shoot and the client is gonna find out, hey, this guy's great.

Dan (33:11)

Also, capitalism and moralism don't necessarily play well together. But what's nice about it is that you're confirming something we've all long suspected, that it, you know, that this is all highly produced. The idea of multi level marketing being a viable business opportunity is being orchestrated and designed and produced. And you were part of that production team to make it look like something that it's not.

Scott Wilson (33:39)

Right, Right. Very, very highly polished, very rich. You know, the, the video's got great color, great cinematography. Again, planning to shoot things at a beautiful time of day, really capturing that kind of story. Something that stood out to me was not only the success stories, but when we were hired to film at the meetings. Oh yeah, to set the stage, you know, we're going to have a big explosion event of whatever our product is. Bring your five best friends and they're going to become your downline, we guarantee it. And so lots of people show up. Big ballroom, big hotel, Dallas, Texas. And again, the show is like a rock and roll show. There's pyro, there's lighting, music. But one of the things they'd want us as a camera crew is when people come out, we need to catch them on camera and get quick interviews about what they're going to do, what their next step is. And so you're like, hey, you just did this two hour event, what are you going to do next? And it's so funny because almost everyone to a T would say, well, I'm excited.

Dan (34:42)

Oh, it was a rah rah. I mean, where they, yeah, well, you.

Scott Wilson (34:45)

Know, you're fired up, you know. So what's the next step? What's your plan? Well, we're just excited. We're here, we're excited. That was exciting. We're excited. You know, you're not getting the sound bite that you're looking for because the next person, the next person is all.

Dan (34:58)

Going to say, I'm Just excited. I'm excited. Yes.

Scott Wilson (35:00)

Yeah. Yes.

Dan (35:01)

Did people ever say anything negative?

Scott Wilson (35:05)

Not. Not that I was exposed to.

Dan (35:07)

Okay.

Scott Wilson (35:08)

You're helping them tell their story with the magic of high quality media.

Dan (35:13)

Did they seem like good people or could you kind of smell it on them, that they were creeps? I'm serious. I don't get to be around them very much. I've been around a few on the show and they. To me, I can smell it a mile away. Like, this is a scare. You know what I mean? They're trying to rip people off and they're greedy and they have a bunch of other deadly sins going on. But I, you know, I don't. Could you tell? Or maybe they were good people. I don't know.

Scott Wilson (35:40)

Yeah, yeah. Maybe in their minds, they were good people. Or when people just know there's a camera around, they're gonna perform, even if the camera's turned off or being set up for the next thing.

Dan (35:52)

Right. How long did it take you to figure out that you were gonna get pitched every single time?

Scott Wilson (35:59)

Probably a short amount of time because you got pitched every single time. I always had that sinking feeling when it came time for the car shot, when it came time for the Mercedes shot. And the Mercedes shot always aggravated me as a cameraman because a Mercedes is a tight, small vehicle. And this is back with beta cams, you know, the camera that goes on your shoulder. So to wedge yourself in, you can't put on a seat belt. You're trying to create a shot that isn't right up their nose. They're taking corners and slamming you all over the place.

Dan (36:27)

A lunatic is driving the car.

Scott Wilson (36:29)

Yeah. And it's so I always have, you know, kind of like, here comes the car shot. And then again, like I would tell myself, 3, 2, 1. Once they have me alone, they would start the conversation, the innocent conversation.

Dan (36:41)

But still, I mean, you can't miss an opportunity, right?

Scott Wilson (36:46)

Oh, exactly. Yeah, yeah. If you're going to be successful. If I was in that business, I would be selling every single person that I ran into. I can be a pretty persuasive person.

Dan (36:57)

I can tell.

Scott Wilson (36:58)

There was a time, I have to say, there was a time where my wife kind of threw up her hands and said, you know what? If you would just do the talking, I'll handle all the paperwork and administration and stuff. If you want to get into one of these. Oh, because I. From Osmosis. I knew all that. You could be from Yale, you could be from jail, you know, sell ice to an Eskimo. And so I did it for a brief amount of time. I thought about it. It'd be interesting during their deep interview that people, again, are so excited about the product. They would make medical claims that the producer would have to stop them and get them to restate that, you know, I had cancer, and then I started using this product and the cancer went away. Whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa. Hold on. Let's stop. Let's stop here. We can say that you've had health benefits, but we can't have you on camera saying that it cured this cancer may be an extreme thing, but that, you know, you can say I have more vitality, but, you know, you can't say that.

Paige Desorbo (38:09)

Now.

Scott Wilson (38:09)

I can bench press 200 or something because of the product.

Dan (38:13)

Now, were the producers part of your team or were they part of the MLM team?

Scott Wilson (38:18)

Where were they from, the producers? I could never guess if they were freelance or if they were on staff.

Dan (38:26)

Right. They must have had some education and in the MLM legal side of things if they were able to correct people. Yeah.

Scott Wilson (38:33)

Yes, yes. Yeah. I know the folks producing now that I produce, I've learned a new set of, you know, a new skill set. And so back in that case, I know that they were schooled up in knowing what they're working with and what they're trying to get as the end product that they can edit together and use.

Dan (38:51)

Did any of these air, like, as an infomercial?

Scott Wilson (38:55)

Not that I'm aware of. You know, the thing about MLM is we are exactly like the product you see on the shelf, but we're not sinking our money into television advertising. We're not sinking our money into media is what they tell you. We're using word of mouth.

Dan (39:11)

Right.

Scott Wilson (39:12)

That is our advertising and passing the savings on to you.

Dan (39:15)

Word of mouth. And these DVDs that I'm going to.

Scott Wilson (39:17)

Sell you, I tell you, one of the great, and I would hear this often, someone, you know, motivating you to become a salesperson, to have your own downline. They would say, jane, did you see a good movie this weekend?

Dan (39:28)

I actually did, yeah.

Scott Wilson (39:30)

Well, so what'd you do? Did you tell some friends about it?

Dan (39:33)

Yeah.

Scott Wilson (39:34)

And your friends probably want to see that movie now because they trust you. You're a trusted source. You know, good movies, I have good taste. That's how MLM network marketing works.

Dan (39:45)

Okay.

Scott Wilson (39:47)

You're a trusted source. You have just experienced something good and you're sharing it with people.

Dan (39:54)

Oh, the sharing thing.

Hannah Berner (39:55)

Yes.

Scott Wilson (39:56)

That's the pitch you're not selling. You're not selling, you're sharing. If you saw a good movie this weekend, you shared that with a close friend or two.

Dan (40:04)

Yeah, I'm spreading the wealth of Freakier Friday.

Scott Wilson (40:08)

Exactly. Exactly. Another cameraman friend of mine who worked in tons of these. We had always wanted to make a documentary. Like, man, if we could follow five different people from different walks of life, out of college, retiree, divorced wife, and true documentary, and follow them into an mlm, I think it'd be amazing. Tv. It's like, who's done that? You know, nobody. And we kind of came to the conclusion that there's not an MLM out there that would allow unfettered cameras.

Paige Desorbo (40:43)

Yeah.

Hannah Berner (40:45)

And yet.

Dan (40:46)

And yet I don't think it would be as hard as you think.

Scott Wilson (40:49)

Well, maybe. Maybe so. Maybe so. So many, so many people, I mean, they believe their own bullshit. They. They believe they're untouchable. And their product and their shtick is so good that, you know, no one's gonna break the facade.

Dan (41:03)

Oh boy. Oh God. I just started thinking about RFK Jr.

Scott Wilson (41:08)

Yeah. Wow.

Dan (41:10)

Thanks a lot, Scott. The dream is a production of Little Everywhere. You can email us at helloittle everywhere.com and contribute to the program at thedream.supercast.com.

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Hannah Berner (43:12)

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Dan (43:58)

Hey, dream listeners. It's finally here. The Dream plus, where you can get every single episode of our show with no ads. It's $5 a month. It's the only tier. No commercials plus bonus content. This helps keep us independent, and your contribution will help change the way every listener hears the dream. We'll be able to take out the ads that we don't even know are getting put into this show, which is annoying to both you and us. We're also gonna have an amazing discussion board. The interface has it cataloged under ama. Ask me anything, but I don't love rules. So what I did is started a bunch of threads like Ask Dan and I Questions, general chitchat, just to make friends and stuff. And every time I've been in charge of a discussion board, I've made a tab called Women Be Shoppin. And it's there. And we're just gonna talk about what we bought and it'll be fun. That's thedream.s U-P-E-R c a s t.com supercast. Please, please go. Subscribe. It's five bucks. It's less than a latte if you live in Los Angeles. See you.