The Dream — “Birthing A Bad Dream”

Host: Jane Marie
Guests: Alicia (Jane’s friend), Dr. Sarah Toogood (OB-GYN at Cedars Sinai, LA)
Air Date: January 15, 2026

Episode Overview

In this reimagined episode of The Dream, host Jane Marie returns with a deeply personal and incisive look at the “cult of wellness” as it infiltrates the most intimate and anxiety-ridden experience: pregnancy and birth. Shifting the show’s format toward candid, wide-ranging interviews, Jane Marie explores how expectations, cultural pressure, and an abundance of conflicting advice converge to create what can only be described as a “bad dream” for many women at their most vulnerable.

Through honest storytelling (her own and her friend Alicia's), Jane dissects the roles of science, wellness culture, healthcare providers, and personal agency in shaping experiences of pregnancy and birth. OB-GYN Dr. Sarah Toogood joins the conversation, shining a light on the chasm between medical outcomes and emotional journeys, and why no amount of information can ever guarantee control or peace of mind in the birthing process.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

The Cult of Wellness Targets Pregnant Women

• Jane Marie opens with a critical observation: while wellness culture is usually easy to avoid, pregnancy makes women lightning rods for unsolicited advice, judgment, and “the right way” messaging from every direction.
  • “Once a woman becomes pregnant, her body is no longer her own... the whole world suddenly feels ownership. This comes at us with unwanted questions and unwanted touching, unsolicited advice about the right way and the righteous way to be pregnant, to give birth and to mother.” (04:59)

Medical Uncertainty & the Myth of Control

• Jane shares a deeply personal moment: a scary pap smear result at five weeks and a doctor’s advice that vaginal birth might “flush out” potential cancer.
  • “I'd never related to friends on the hippier end... but here I was, unwillingly thrust into their world... spending 35 weeks thinking, maybe you're growing a cancerous tumor right next to a baby is... well, it was fucked up.” (05:36)
• Her approach: “I basically just wanted the baby to come out however it needed to... But then reality intervened.” (05:44)

Comparing Approaches: Jane vs. Alicia

• Alicia, a close friend, shares her high-information, Type-A approach to pregnancy, shaped by both medical necessity (Ehlers-Danlos made hers high-risk) and personality. She attends natural birth classes mostly to learn, not to eschew medicine.
  • “I have like a joint disorder called Ehlers Danlos syndrome. So I was told I had a high-risk pregnancy... So I was constantly asked, six or seven times a day: What kind of birth are you going to have? Are you going to do delayed cord clamping?...I remember getting into a thing about delayed cord clamping...” (07:00–09:03)
• She hoards information out of fear, not fascination.
  • “It was not that I am so interested in birth actually...it was that I was completely terrified that I was going to make the wrong decision and something bad was going to happen. In fact, I was sure that something bad was going to happen.” (10:21)

The Information Deluge & Decision Fatigue

• “Because all these decisions are available... I want to be responsible and have answers to these questions and really think it through.” — Alicia, on the overwhelming array of “choices” offered to pregnant women (09:16)
• Jane’s coping mechanism was the opposite: “A point at which information overload convinced me that there wasn’t an answer. I shut down.” (10:08)

The Reality of Birth: When Agency Meets Biology

• Alicia’s labor story — induction at 41 weeks, expectations shaped by documentaries and doulas.
  • “Every drug I got, I had the most painful, least productive possible reaction... I was having a panic attack. I think, like, I can't breathe and I can't stop crying.” (19:38)
  • The hospital process was lengthy, confusing, and emotionally exhausting, ultimately making her feel like any pain or unexpected outcome was her own fault:
  • “This pain is my fault. And the baby's going to die for sure. And that's definitely going to be my fault.” (22:35)

The Medical Perspective: Dr. Sarah Toogood

• Dr. Toogood highlights the divide between “complementary” and “alternative” medicine and how a well-resourced patient population leans heavily on additional “wellness” information.
  • “I like the word wellness. It implies you're trying to be well, and that means something different for different people...I like it when patients use it as a compliment to our treatment, not as an alternative.” (28:07)
• She acknowledges the “small stuff” women obsess over (coffee, wine, beauty products), but confirms it's rational to care:
  • “Pregnancy is not a disease state... There are things that are safe that you did before pregnancy that you can continue... but in certain amounts, caffeine can be dangerous.” (30:33)
• She warns against confirmation bias and apophenia – finding patterns and causation where none exists:
  • “We seek out info to confirm stuff we believed before... It's not scientific... But it feels good to distill reality down like this.” — Jane (31:34)
  • “Apophenia is the tendency to make connections between things that have nothing to do with each other and then to instill meaning where there is none... like thinking you landed a dream job because you started drinking moon juice.” — Jane (32:16)

The Myth of the “Right” Birth Experience

• Dr. Toogood on the conflict between outcome and experience:
  • “As your doctor, I want a good outcome for you and your baby. Just because you're having a good experience does not mean you're going to have a good outcome. Everyone wants a good experience and outcome. For some women, they can have that, for others, they can’t...” (38:47–39:21)
• Empowerment messaging in birth classes can backfire:
  • “For women who have that mindset going into labor and have a vaginal delivery... of course they feel empowered because everything they told themselves was correct. When those women have to come to the hospital... they're disempowered... they feel like they did something wrong... but statistically that's just not true.” (42:15)

The Elusive Nature of Certainty

• “No amount of information—or virtue—can guarantee a smooth or natural birth. So much is out of your hands, and taking on the burden of every decision is a sure path to self-blame.” (Paraphrased throughout)

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On the Uncertainty of Advice:
  • “There are the decisions that we make based in feelings. Some people choose home births because they feel more comfortable there... who are we to judge?” (22:49)
• On Self-Blame and Birth Experience:
  • “It was like my job to try to stay on the cliff... This pain is my fault. And the baby's going to die for sure. And that's definitely going to be my fault.” — Alicia (22:35)
• On Confirmation Bias:
  • “Like, I think if I don't get induced, I'll have a vaginal birth. Oh, look, I didn't get induced and I had a vaginal birth. So I was right. It's not scientific.” — Jane (31:34)
• On Medical vs. Experiential Values:
  • “If you want to trump your experience at the expense of your outcome, that's really difficult for a doctor to help guide you through... I, as your doctor, want a good outcome.” — Dr. Toogood (39:00)
• On Blame and Trauma:
  • “...they dissect every minute of every day for the weeks leading up to their birth and think if they had done one thing differently, it would have changed the outcome. And it's just not. Statistically, that's just not true.” — Dr. Toogood (42:15)

Important Segment Timestamps

• [04:59] — Jane introduces the episode’s core theme: the “cult of wellness” during pregnancy
• [06:44–10:51] — Alicia describes her hyper-preparedness and anxiety in childbirth classes and decision-making
• [16:03–19:38] — Alicia and Jane recount their birth stories with frank confusion, fear, and systemic critique
• [27:35–30:33] — Dr. Sarah Toogood joins, reframing the patient-provider relationship and wellness questions
• [31:34–32:16] — Jane covers psychological phenomena: confirmation bias & apophenia
• [36:03–37:46] — Discussion on clean beauty, phthalates, and the limits of risk avoidance
• [38:43–43:50] — Deep dive on outcome vs. experience, empowerment, and the emotional aftermath of difficult labors

Takeaways

• Pregnancy and birth are inherently chaotic and uncertain. The modern wellness industry, consumer culture, and even the medical establishment offer both overwhelming choice and little actual control.
• Self-blame and “perfect outcomes” are dangerous myths. No matter the preparation or the information, many aspects of birth are out of moms' hands; self-flagellation for imperfect experiences is both unnecessary and common.
• Medical evidence and empowerment narratives can clash. Having “the right mindset” or “trusting your body” does not guarantee a desired result; outcomes often depend on unpredictable biology, not planning.
• The wellness industry’s promise of control is seductive but illusory. The best anyone can do is make informed decisions, accept uncertainty, and avoid internalizing blame for the uncontrollable.

Conclusion

Birthing a Bad Dream is a refreshingly honest, relatable, and deeply thoughtful deconstruction of what it means to navigate the choices, judgments, and uncertainties of pregnancy and birth. Jane Marie’s frank storytelling, Alicia’s vivid anxiety, and Dr. Toogood’s medical candor combine to create a powerful meditation on control, empowerment, and self-compassion during life’s most vulnerable moments.