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Creepaholics Anonymous

The Dream

Mon Feb 10 2025

Summary

Podcast Summary: "Creepaholics Anonymous" on The Dream

Introduction In the episode titled "Creepaholics Anonymous" from The Dream podcast, host Jane Marie delves deep into the harrowing experiences of Amanda Lee, a nurse and long-term recovery advocate. Amanda shares her tumultuous journey through addiction, involvement with a cult-like organization masquerading as an Alcoholics Anonymous (AA) group, and her eventual path to healing. This episode sheds light on the dark underbelly of high-control recovery groups and the profound impact they can have on individuals seeking sobriety.

Amanda Lee's Background and Struggle with Addiction Amanda Lee begins by introducing herself as a nurse in recovery, having battled alcoholism and addiction for over two decades. She candidly discusses her early struggles, including multiple felony charges related to theft—a consequence of her addiction. Despite these setbacks, Amanda persevered, enrolling in nursing school and eventually overcoming significant personal challenges.

"I'm a nurse currently and I'm in recovery. So I spent several years, like, as an alcoholic, addict and everything... I've done a lot of AA, a lot of counseling, a lot of stuff around the recovery..."
[02:06] - Amanda Lee

Amanda emphasizes that her journey to sobriety began with the Midtown group, an organization she initially believed was aiding her recovery.

Joining Midtown: The Start of Sobriety At the age of 20, Amanda found herself at rock bottom—homeless, addicted to heroin, and grappling with multiple warrants. Her father and aunt intervened, facilitating her move to Washington D.C., where she joined Midtown, believing it to be a legitimate AA group dedicated to helping individuals like herself achieve sobriety.

"Midtown's actually the beginning of my sobriety story, honestly."
[02:06] - Amanda Lee

Amanda recounts attending her first AA meeting with high hopes, only to be introduced to a group that would soon reveal its cult-like nature.

The Cult-like Structure of Midtown Contrary to traditional AA groups, Midtown operated under a rigid hierarchical structure. Amanda describes the group's leader, Mike Quinones—referred to as "Mike Q"—who exerted considerable control over members. The group enforced strict rules, such as attending multiple daily meetings, limiting external interactions, and mandating allegiance to Mike Q.

"There's a head leader. Okay. His name was Mike Quinones. Starts with a Q... our group was also called the Q Group."
[26:39] - Amanda Lee

Members were labeled as "pigeons," and sponsors were responsible for overseeing numerous individuals, fostering a sense of dependency and control.

Experiences of Abuse and Control Amanda's narrative takes a dark turn as she exposes the abusive practices within Midtown. The group prohibited members from taking psychiatric medications, isolating them from external support systems. Moreover, Amanda reveals instances of sexual misconduct, where older members exploited younger individuals under the guise of spiritual guidance.

"They had me flush my Lexapro... [27:41] And there was a lot of sexual abuse happening in this group."
[28:05] - Amanda Lee

Such practices not only undermined members' autonomy but also perpetuated a cycle of abuse and dependency, making it difficult for individuals to break free.

Turning Point and Leaving the Group After seven years of involvement, Amanda began to see the cracks in Midtown's façade. Increased media scrutiny exposed the group's nefarious activities, leading to a mass exodus of members. Realizing the extent of the manipulation and control exerted over her life, Amanda decided to leave the group, a move that severed her ties with 500 former "friends" and plunged her back into solitude.

"I left because I was drinking because I relapsed."
[42:08] - Amanda Lee

The departure was not only a rebellion against the group's oppressive structure but also a necessary step towards reclaiming her independence and rebuilding her life.

Reflections and Current Perspectives Reflecting on her experiences, Amanda acknowledges the complex dynamics of Midtown. She recognizes that many within the group were both predators and victims, caught in a web of abuse and misguided loyalty. Amanda emphasizes the importance of self-reliance, critical thinking, and spiritual fulfillment as pillars of true recovery.

"I was trying to fill a God-sized hole with all this other stuff. Drugs, boys, attention, sex... But the only thing that really can fulfill that is like having a relationship with some kind of God."
[52:58] - Amanda Lee

Amanda now advocates for vigilance against high-control groups and encourages individuals to seek genuine support systems that respect personal autonomy and well-being.

Conclusion "Creepaholics Anonymous" offers a poignant look into the perils of high-control recovery groups and the enduring resilience required to overcome them. Amanda Lee's story serves as both a cautionary tale and a testament to the strength of the human spirit. Listeners are left with a deeper understanding of the complexities surrounding addiction recovery and the critical need for safe, empowering support networks.

Notable Quotes with Timestamps

"Midtown's actually the beginning of my sobriety story, honestly."
[02:06] - Amanda Lee
"They had me flush my Lexapro... And there was a lot of sexual abuse happening in this group."
[28:05] - Amanda Lee
"I was trying to fill a God-sized hole with all this other stuff. Drugs, boys, attention, sex... But the only thing that really can fulfill that is like having a relationship with some kind of God."
[52:58] - Amanda Lee

Final Thoughts This episode underscores the importance of discerning genuine support from potentially harmful affiliations. Amanda Lee's courageous sharing provides invaluable insights for anyone navigating the challenging path to recovery, highlighting the necessity of informed choices and the pursuit of true healing.

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Transcript

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Jane Marie (0:32)

Welcome to the dream. I'm Jane Marie. Before we get into today's topic, I need to thank a really incredible organization for helping us continue to do this work. They're called imi, the Independent Media Initiative. And they gave us an award for our investigative journalism last year that came with money, which was one of the weirdest emails I've ever woken up to. Like, I sent it to my mom and I was like, does that say money? What? Anyway, I did completely overdress for the awards ceremony, but the dress was rented. IMI is aiming to create a sort of public media space, but for the digital age. And some of the coolest creators and projects and some of my favorite people can be found on their website. Theimi Co. Go check them out. Okay, who wants to talk about cults? Everybody, everybody, everywhere, all at once, et cetera. Sometimes it's rather hard to tell if something is a cult. I think that's by design. It's not hard to tell when, say, you're held down on a table and branded or when you're just dying to hitch a ride on a ufo. But sometimes cults do good things alongside the bad. And that was the case with an organization called Midtown that today's guest joined. Just a warning that this episode discusses sexual assault.

Amanda Lee (2:06)

My name is Amanda Lee and I am, I'm a nurse currently and I'm in recovery. So I spent several years, like, as an alcoholic, addict and everything, have spent a ton of years, probably 20 years in recovery, like, and I've had some relapses, but I've done a lot of aa, a lot of counseling, a lot of stuff around the recovery, spiritual type community, but have also, I know we're going to be talking about the Midtown cult and I was in that for about 10 years and we'll be getting into that. That's one thing about me, but I think, like, one of the biggest things is that I've overcome a lot. You know, I was on. I've had seven felonies, and I ended up on the Most Wanted in 2014. But it wasn't anything crazy. I did not hurt anyone or, I mean, like, kill anyone or do anything crazy. I just. It was theft, and it was, you know, in regards to addiction and everything, but it was definitely embarrassing. But. But since then, I mean, I've still been able to go on and go to nursing school. It's been a lot of work and a lot of, you know, jumping through a lot of hoops, but so, I mean, I'm really, like, proud of that, of being a nurse today. Midtown's actually the beginning of my sobriety story, honestly. So, you know, and one thing I like to say is that I don't think. You know, I don't consider AA itself as a cult. There's so much great, great, great stuff that comes out of AA and everything, but then there's, you know, different personalities, different groups. Groups, and different ways that you can twist, like, the power, I guess, that.

Amanda Lee (19:05)

So we actually went to Portland first, then we went to Seattle. And up in Seattle, my car got towed and I got arrested for shoplifting at Walmart. So I spent two weeks in jail detoxing off heroin for my first time detoxing. That was my first time experience in a detox. So it was definitely something serious. But when I. Yeah, when I got out of jail, my car had been towed, so we were officially homeless. That's where, that's how we ended up where I say, you know, sleeping on church steps, panhandling, completely homeless on heroin. Rock bottom. As much as can be have ripped off people. So we are, you know, also scared for our lives or we should be. So at. At 20 years old, I. I just woke up one morning and I think I had done a bad shot or something because I woke up and I couldn't really walk. My body was frozen stiff and I didn't know what was going on. I felt really scared for my life. So I called my dad, said, dad, I'm doing heroin. I'm. I. I need help. I need help. And he jumped on it. He did. My dad is amazing. In fact, my family is amazing. But my dad jumped on it. My aunt, actually his sister, had been in recovery for about 25 years from heroin. So she's the one that jumped in to help me. She flew out to Seattle and she had lived in Washington D.C. so she flew us from Seattle back to her house. So that's how I ended in Washington D.C. that's where Midtown is. That's how I ended up in that city. And this is where I'm willing to go to aa because I have nothing. I don't know what else to do. So I went to one AA meeting, just a regular AA meeting. It was fine. But I met this girl there, and she said, you need to come with me to a meeting tomorrow night. It's all young people. There's like, 500 people. We have so much fun. We make sobriety fun. You've got to come. I'll pick you up tomorrow. And so I'm like, oh, heck, yeah. That sounds great. Yeah. You know, so that next Sunday, she picks me up and we go to this meeting. We got there, like, two hours early. That was every. That you're supposed to do that. That was, like, part of the thing. We always got there two hours early. And I'm talking about all 500 people did. But, I mean, that first meeting, it honestly was mind blowing. These people were. You know, I'm like, y'all were like, me, like, junkies and homeless and stuff. And now they just looked so happy and shiny and clean and normal. You know, they were having a good time, and they were talking about going to the beach all together, and they were going to go out that night, bowling, and they invited me, and. And it was a speaker meeting, and there was two speakers, but I remember the second one in particular. You know, his story was mine. I related so much to him, and then when he talked about his life and recovery, I wanted it more than anything. I was super excited. I felt like I had found my people and I was at home. I mean, I was thrilled. I felt like hope for the first time. I really felt like I was going to be able to stay sober. So, I mean, I made that my home group. And, you know, they told me that they go to meeting every single night. And so, I mean, I was willing to do all of this stuff because it's. I really. You know, and actually, a lot of that is normal AA stuff. A lot of people do go to a meeting every single day.

Amanda Lee (31:49)

So the whole time there would other groups. This was. This was like other AA groups. We were known as being known as a cult. So I knew that other people said we were a culture, but I defended it. I'd be like, no, we're literal, just AA group. One of the rules of Midtown, though, is that we're not allowed to go to outside meetings at all. You're only allowed to go to Midtown meetings, and other people could come to them. But we were not allowed to go to other meetings because they didn't want us to hear a different message. We didn't want to hear that we were in a cult or be brainwashed by them. We only wanted to be brainwashed by us. I did know. You know what? The whole time that I'm in Midtown, that I'm being. Other people are saying it's a cult. So I knew the whole time that it kind of was, but I just didn't choose to believe it because it was saving my life. And I was there for seven years. By the time I. About when I got seven years sober was when things started getting crazy. Reporters from. From Newsweek, from the Washington Post, they started coming into our meetings, actually, like, busting into our meetings and having people, some of the group members tell this stuff, you know, that we were out. We're not allowed to see doctors. We weren't allowed to take medication. We had to cut off our family. They started telling this stuff. So we started being kind of ousted in the news with what was really going on. I was still defending it, though, at the time. There was a, like, mass exodus of people that left our group, and they started another group that was called the Concerned Friends Group, the cfg. And they were trying to do all kind of advocacy to like, break up Midtown. Because it was. It was ex Midtown members that were. That had come to see the light, and they were like, this is so dangerous because not just weren't we allowed to take medicine, There was so, so much sexual abuse happening in this group. The. Some of the direction that we were given to do was sexual stuff. We had to do stuff like that. And Mike Q. The 60 and 70 year old, his girlfriends, his fiance that he had were 16 and 17. So, I mean, it was.