Podcast Summary: "Death Of Gawker, And An Ego"
Host: Jane Marie
Guest: AJ Delerio
Release Date: May 2, 2025
Podcast: The Dream by Little Everywhere

1. Introduction to AJ Delerio and His Gawker Experience

Jane Marie opens the episode by introducing her guest, AJ Delerio, highlighting a pivotal moment about a decade ago when AJ's career at Gawker was derailed. AJ recounts the aftermath of the infamous Hulk Hogan lawsuit backed by Peter Thiel, which not only cost him his job but also plunged him into personal turmoil as a new mother, financially strained, and separated from his husband.

Jane Marie [02:20]: "The guy we're going to hear from today was one of the people I was most pissed at. But over time, he's become, well, almost a completely different person."

2. The Gawker Trial and Its Impact

AJ delves into the specifics of the 2012 Gawker trial, explaining how the publication of Hulk Hogan's sex tape led to multiple lawsuits for invasion of privacy and emotional distress. Despite initial dismissals in federal court, the case eventually settled for a staggering $31 million, resulting in Gawker's bankruptcy.

AJ Delerio [03:09]: "In October of 2012, when I was editor of Gawker, I published a story about Hulk Hogan sex tape and then posted about a minute of it on the site. And illegally, I have to add that all the time."

The financial and emotional strain from the trial cost AJ his position at Gawker, thrusting him into a precarious personal situation.

3. Navigating Resentment and Personal Growth

While discussing the fallout, AJ reflects on his lingering resentments, particularly towards certain journalists, and how these negative feelings have been a persistent challenge in his journey toward recovery. He shares an anecdote about a confrontational call with an NPR reporter, illustrating the deep-seated frustrations he harbors from that period.

AJ Delerio [08:07]: "But that's the voice I hear in my head, right? Whenever, like, there's a negative voice, I hear his voice."

Despite these challenges, AJ emphasizes his efforts to reduce the importance of these resentments over the years, acknowledging the role he played in the situation.

4. Early Life, Education, and Struggles

AJ provides a candid look into his adolescence and early adulthood. Growing up in Churchville, Pennsylvania, he describes his high school experience as relatively average, feeling like an outsider despite being popular in his own right. His desire to escape Pennsylvania led him to attend LaSalle University, though he yearned to attend the University of Tampa instead. This period was marked by depression and a lack of fulfillment, prompting AJ to fake alcoholism as a coping mechanism.

AJ Delerio [18:43]: "Stayed at home, yeah. I had the same experience, and I was so depressed about that."

His fabricated struggles with alcohol led him to seek therapy and eventually enter rehab, despite not being an actual alcoholic at the time. This period of his life was characterized by instability and a search for purpose.

5. Pursuing a Career in Writing and Early Achievements

Despite personal challenges, AJ pursued his passion for writing, interning at a recording studio and contributing to local newspapers. He shares a humorous yet humbling story about contributing to "Chicken Soup for the Golfer's Soul," where his work was featured alongside minimal compensation, only realizing his inclusion when his credit card was declined at a bookstore.

AJ Delerio [22:26]: "That's how sad ass it was because I went to like the Barnes and Noble... And my credit card was declined."

His move to New York marked a significant transition, where he sought to emulate the bold editorial styles of colleagues like Jeff Coyen and Greg Gutfeld. These experiences shaped his approach to journalism, emphasizing sensationalism and boundary-pushing content.

6. The Allure and Consequences of Ambitious Journalism

In New York, AJ became enamored with the audacious editorial direction of publications like the New York Press. He narrates the ambitious yet ultimately destructive projects he spearheaded, such as the mock "Assassination of George W. Bush" newspaper, which led to his immediate dismissal when it was deemed too controversial.

AJ Delerio [27:09]: "I put out a newspaper. The paper that he did put out was 50 reasons why the Pope should Die."

These endeavors, while creatively fulfilling, were unsustainable and exacerbated his struggles with mental health and substance abuse.

7. The Road to Recovery and Rebuilding

Following the Gawker ordeal and subsequent legal battles, AJ spent two years facing legal repercussions and sought rehabilitation once more. Today, he is a father to three children and runs The Small Bow, a recovery newsletter and podcast focused on sobriety, mental health, and expanding the definition of recovery.

AJ Delerio [35:21]: "I run The Small Bow is a recovery newsletter slash podcast. It's about sobriety, recovery, mental health, like, you know, lots of stuff."

AJ discusses the transformation from his tumultuous past to his current stable life, emphasizing the importance of consistency, accountability, and finding new avenues for ambition that do not compromise his well-being or relationships.

AJ Delerio [37:15]: "It has been as creatively fulfilling as I think I've been searching for my whole entire life."

8. Balancing Ambition with Sobriety

AJ reflects on the delicate balance between maintaining ambition and sustaining sobriety. He acknowledges the temptation to revert to his former self, driven by the desire to achieve greatness without the destructive behaviors that previously defined his career.

AJ Delerio [36:54]: "The thing that worries me more being sober is not like, I'm not going to drink or do drugs. Probably not. Right. But I don't know how to be ambitious sober without being an asshole."

This introspection highlights his ongoing journey to harness his creative drive positively while nurturing his personal relationships and responsibilities as a father and husband.

9. Reflections and Advice for Others

Towards the end of the conversation, AJ shares poignant insights derived from his experiences. He emphasizes that even amidst public disgrace and personal loss, it's possible to rebuild and find purpose. His work with The Small Bow allows him to connect with others facing similar struggles, offering support and understanding.

AJ Delerio [42:12]: "If I could tell one person not to kill themselves because their job or their public life blew up, I mean, that's pretty good purpose, I think."

10. Conclusion

Jane Marie wraps up the episode by commending AJ's resilience and the transformative path he has taken. Listeners are left with a profound understanding of the complexities of ambition, the consequences of unchecked actions in the media industry, and the redemptive power of recovery and personal growth.

Notable Quotes

• AJ Delerio [08:07]: "But that's the voice I hear in my head, right? Whenever, like, there's a negative voice, I hear his voice."
• AJ Delerio [37:15]: "It has been as creatively fulfilling as I think I've been searching for my whole entire life."
• AJ Delerio [42:12]: "If I could tell one person not to kill themselves because their job or their public life blew up, I mean, that's pretty good purpose, I think."

Key Takeaways

• The High Stakes of Media Journalism: AJ's experience at Gawker underscores the volatile nature of media careers, where sensationalism can lead to both fame and downfall.

• Personal Struggles and Recovery: The episode offers an unfiltered look into AJ's battles with depression, substance abuse, and the path to sobriety, highlighting the importance of mental health support.

• Redefining Success: AJ's transition from seeking chaotic ambition to fostering a stable, purpose-driven life illustrates that success is multifaceted and deeply personal.

• Impact of Public Scrutiny: The devastating effects of public backlash and legal battles are explored, emphasizing the need for resilience and support systems in the face of adversity.

This episode of The Dream provides a compelling narrative of downfall and redemption, offering listeners valuable insights into the human side of media personalities and the enduring quest for personal fulfillment beyond professional success.