Jacob Heiser (2:29)

Amway.

Mackenzie (2:30)

I always assumed it was the FTC that came up with them. No, no.

Jane Marie (2:48)

In this post Amway decision world, it seems like MLMs are everywhere. And as we told you earlier in the season, we wanted to find out what they look like from the inside. So we joined one, a makeup company called Limelife, formerly known and referred to in our tape as Limelight. Remember, they had to change their name mid reporting when they went international. Our producer Mackenzie signed up, got a starter kit, and ordered a bunch more makeup at the urging of her upline. So last we heard from her, she was struggling to kickstart her Limelight career. She had zero sales from anyone other than herself. Her posts on social media were going largely ignored by everyone but me, her mom, and her upline. And that opening party.

Mackenzie (3:26)

I sent out invitations on Facebook, individualized invitations to everyone, and not a single person responded. And I'm talking like, my closest friends. Like, seriously, some people claimed after the fact that they never got them, but, you know, it's Facebook. You can see if someone opened it. And I had a range of excuses. Everything from I would have to hire a babysitter to it's a weeknight to my mother in law's in town. And then everyone kind of ended it with. Also, I don't really get why you're inviting me over for a makeup themed party. So no party for us, which is a bummer.

Jane Marie (4:08)

I love a party and was really looking forward to finally getting to know some of the products while having my ties with friends. Plus, we already invested a lot in it. Remember, Mackenzie's upline just convinced her to spend around 300 bucks to beef up her kit. We asked around a bit to find out why friends ignored the invite. And on the whole, no one felt like spending money on babysitters and expensive makeup in order to hang out with us when they could just spend money on babysitting and a cheap bottle of wine like we normally do. As much as everyone loves Mackenzie, even attending one party was way too much of an investment. Oh, and if you think they said no because they know this is a silly project for a podcast, you are wrong. We didn't tell them.

Mackenzie (4:51)

I'm still feeling that, like, overwhelmed feeling where I just. I don't know where to start. But I'm not doing anything. I'm sort of, like, paralyzed by fear because there's just so much I should be doing and I'm trying to do it and it's not working. So what are you gonna do? Well, that's what I wanted to talk to you about.

Jane Marie (5:09)

I'M Jane Marie, and this is the dream. Episode 8 Destination Amazing.

Mackenzie (5:22)

Limelight has all of these events that they do. Everything from something called the Happiest Hour.

Jane Marie (5:27)

Wait, what is that?

Mackenzie (5:28)

I have no clue. To Limelight Palooza, which is like this big cruise or something, or like, Caribbean destination, some kind of, like, sales conference or something.

Jane Marie (5:41)

Here is Limelight's CEO, and that stands for Chief Empowerment Officer. I'm not kidding. His name is Jacob Heiser. We found this video of him from last year's Limelight Palooza, and he's possibly having the greatest day of his life.

Jacob Heiser (5:56)

It validates being here. Validates all the time and hours and effort you put into everything you do while you're home alone or in your office or when you're feeling stressed out. And then you get here and you really get to realize the impact of who you are and the way that you touch and affect people and the impact that you have on the world. And it's amazing. It's really amazing.

Jane Marie (6:20)

How do we get on that?

Mackenzie (6:21)

I don't know.

Jane Marie (6:22)

I feel like Sugar Ray will be there.

Mackenzie (6:24)

Yeah.

Jane Marie (6:24)

Oh, God.

Mackenzie (6:25)

Oh, God. Well, so. So that's why I'm here. I wanted to ask you. There is something called Destination Amazing happening in San Francisco, which is just a hop and a skip from here.

Jane Marie (6:39)

Do you have to pay to go to it?

Mackenzie (6:40)

Yeah. So I was kind of, like, doing the math on it, and the happiest hour, I think, is like, $25. The Destination Amazing Sales conference is like 50 or 75, I'm not sure. And then, yeah, flights are cheap. Ish. And then I was thinking I could stay in the hotel where the event is happening so I don't miss anything.

Jane Marie (6:59)

Oh, it's a hotel event.

Mackenzie (7:00)

Oh, yeah, it's a hotel.

Jane Marie (7:02)

Do the fees count toward your income or anything? Like how buying your own supplies, like, counts as a retail sale?

Mackenzie (7:09)

No, no, this is. This is like, personal enrichment, you might think.

Jane Marie (7:15)

Well, okay, so lots of companies encourage you to attend conferences and get training, but oftentimes those conferences are run by a third party, some sort of professional association or something, or they're part of training and licensing people in the professional sector. My dad, for example, is a dentist. And every few years we'd go to an American Dental association conference. It's usually somewhere fun like Cancun or whatever. And, yeah, that costs money, but my dad attended classes there on the latest root canal techniques or on patient retention strategies or other stuff you need to know to get your dental license renewed by the state each year. And if you didn't have the cash for one of those fun ways of earning those credits that was okay. You can get them through volunteering at free clinics or taking affordable courses at your local community college. Yes, all of that costs some money, but it's a legal requirement to practice dentistry. There are similar things for teachers. Schools often promise a raise or a promotion if you're teaching and want to seek a master's degree. And often the employers help with those costs. All you need to invest is the time. Even an office retreat where you do trust falls with people you don't trust, even those are funded by the office hosting the retreat with mlms, the very company you're selling for. In our case, one that does zero vetting or training before charging you a fee to work for them, also makes you pay out of pocket to get the training they claim you must have in order to be successful. Wait, how much is this gonna cost, though?

Mackenzie (8:38)

Actually, I think it's gonna cost maybe 6 or $700. Oh, my God. I mean, I need to stay in a hotel.

Jane Marie (8:46)

We're over $1,000 now. No, we're way over a thousand dollars now. We're up to like, 1,500 bucks.

Mackenzie (8:52)

So. Based on the videos that I've seen online, this seems to be, like the magic bullet for people who are not good at this.

Jane Marie (9:00)

What are the videos?

Mackenzie (9:01)

I found a bunch where people talk about all the sacrifices that they make to go to these events. One of them is a girl who missed her best friend's wedding to go to Limelight Palooza.

Limelight Seller (9:10)

I almost didn't go to Limelight Palooza this year because one of my best friends is getting married that same Saturday, and I'm supposed to be a bridesmaid. And I remember crying when I found out that Limelight Palooza was that same weekend. And it was one of the hardest decisions I've had to make business wise. However, I made, like, a promise to myself that this year, no matter what, I was gonna go. Because last year I didn't go, and I missed out, and it was my bad. So this year I was like, I don't care. I'm going. So I took her out to lunch, and I broke it down to her, and I explained to her why I had to be there.

Mackenzie (9:54)

She was crying.

Limelight Seller (9:55)

I was crying. But she's such a good friend that she was like, you need to go. So now I'm telling you guys what my. My friend told me. You need to go.

Jane Marie (10:06)

If I would have called you, like, a couple weeks before your wedding and Been like, so sorry. But here's the thing.

Mackenzie (10:14)

I do think it's friendship ending, or at least friendship reconsidering.

Jane Marie (10:19)

Yeah.

Mackenzie (10:19)

But there is the promise that it's gonna make you good at this.

Jane Marie (10:23)

I've researched this.

Limelight Seller (10:24)

I studied this. I've been in direct sales for a very long time, and I have failed in direct sales for a very long time because I never took convention seriously. If you want to make some serious money in this business, you must go.

Jane Marie (10:41)

Don't think for a second that we didn't call this woman. We called this woman, and we'll hear from her in an upcoming episode. You don't want to miss that. In the meantime, we sent MacKenzie off to San Francisco.

Mackenzie (10:53)

I'm at the hotel. I'm riding the elevator up to Bay View at the Grand Hyatt for happy hour.

Jane Marie (11:04)

Mackenzie arrived Sunday night just in time for the happiest hour, which cost $25 and included one free drink. After that, cash bar wine was 14 bucks. Cocktails 15. If you got a Sprite, that was $8.50. And this isn't even limelight palooza. From Mackenzie's count, there were roughly 60 or 70 people in attendance, all but a handful of them women. And Mackenzie said happiest wasn't exactly the way she'd describe this cocktail hour. Surprisingly, most of the folks she talked to were kind of downers. Their businesses were stalled, they weren't reaching their goals, and they were desperate to get the secret to success.

Mackenzie (11:39)

Okay, so I walk in and it's this really casual looking cocktail party. And it seems like everyone's kind of grouped off into their little cliques, which I later learned were most likely their uplines and downlines. People on their team.

Jane Marie (11:52)

Oh, they already knew each other. Yeah.

Mackenzie (11:53)

Okay. And so I kind of found this group that looked really welcoming and friendly, one of the only ones. So I went and kind of forced my way into their group and started talking to them. And they kept asking me questions like, you know, how's your business doing? How much are you making? How much are you selling? And I didn't like bad nothing.

Jane Marie (12:13)

Nothing.

Mackenzie (12:14)

Exactly. I just stared at them with a blank look on my face.

Jane Marie (12:17)

Zip that 850 sprite.

Mackenzie (12:19)

That's right. So I just kind of kept turning it around, saying, well, how's your business doing? What about you? And then found out that most of them were also struggling. I mean, they were pretty optimistic, but they had all acknowledged that they had hit some kind of wall and. And weren't.

Jane Marie (12:34)

So they weren't there just for Fun?

Mackenzie (12:36)

No, they weren't there for fun. One of the girls who kept coming in and out of the group brought cousins or something to it to the cocktail party so that she could see what kind of culture it was and see how much of a sisterhood it was and how fun it was. So she could recruit them. Exactly. Yeah. So I was asking everyone in my group how they were doing, and they were so nice and again, very optimistic. But. But all acknowledged that business wasn't doing great and they were there to try to figure out how to get better.

Jane Marie (13:08)

So that night, what they got was a bunch of mingling, expensive drinks and an eight minute pep talk from dun dun dun dun Chief empowerment officer Jacob. Jacob is a jet setter. It turns out he's running this event in California. It's illegal to record someone without their knowledge. And we knew if we asked for interviews, it would end Mackenzie's time as a seller. So we don't have any sound from inside the happiest hour or from destination amazing the next day. But Mackenzie did sneak away to call me. Hi.

Sponsor Voice / Advertiser (13:37)

Hi.

Mackenzie (13:38)

How are you?

Jane Marie (13:39)

The question is, how are you?

Mackenzie (13:42)

I'm surviving. Sorry. I'm just trying to find a space where, like, people keep staying next to me and they don't know who is. All right, hold on.

Jane Marie (13:53)

I'm picturing you with, like, one of those nose, like, eyebrows and nose glasses on and a newspaper with holes cut out of it.

Mackenzie (14:01)

I literally just. Just had my hood on in a. In a hotel lobby in a corner.

Jane Marie (14:07)

All right.

Mackenzie (14:07)

And now I'm in an elevator band cat, like, hiding in a corner. So I have. I don't know. No, I have to go back in. I can't be late.

Jacob Heiser (14:18)

All right.

Mackenzie (14:18)

Wish me luck.

Jane Marie (14:19)

Okay. Good luck. I'm sorry.

Mackenzie (14:20)

I want to be late. All right. Bye.

Limelight Seller (14:21)

Bye.

Jane Marie (14:34)

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Jane Marie (18:52)

How did it go?

Mackenzie (18:53)

Okay, so on Monday morning I woke up and went downstairs to the conference room to destination Amazing. Which I actually had no idea what that was, getting into it. And I heard some people at lunch saying they thought it was going to be more like product training or something like that. But apparently in the fine print it did mention that it was something about how to be your best self and, you know, push yourself to the, to the next phase.

Jane Marie (19:17)

So it was like a motivational seminar.

Mackenzie (19:19)

Yes. It starts off like, you know, it's in one of those stadium seating conference rooms at Hyatt.

Jane Marie (19:25)

To give you a sense of Jacob's teaching style that Mackenzie experienced while she was there, here's a video of him we found on Facebook called Illuminating a New Possibility.

Jacob Heiser (19:36)

It's so easy to use excuses because it means you don't have to be responsible for your results. You get to blame someone or something else for why you don't have what you want. It's a really easy and comfortable way to live. But is that how you want to live? Let's relate this example to a sport. Let's say you were at a baseball game and the losing team in their interview after said, well, if there were only two bases instead of three, we would have absolutely scored three more points in that last round and we would have won. Or, well, the other players have longer legs so they're naturally Faster and can outrun us. If our legs were longer, we totally would have won, bro. Sounds crazy when we hear it in those terms, right? But this is essentially what we're doing in our industry. There are certain things that we can come to expect. And if we start thinking of those things as conditions of the game rather than as obstacles that stop us from winning in our businesses, how much more successful and free from stress do you think you and your business could be? And you know what? Each and every single one of you has the ability to be that way right now, right this very second. We are human beings being. Each and every moment is a new moment to choose who you're being.

Mackenzie (21:31)

So that was the vibe coming from Jacob.

Jane Marie (21:33)

Intense.

Mackenzie (21:34)

It was pretty intense. And it was. It very much felt like we were in Oprah's studio and Jacob was Oprah. A lot of, like, cheering. Everyone's mesmerized by everything he's saying. A lot of people are frantically writing down every word. There was just this energy in the room and everyone was really hypnotized by it. And I get it because. Did I already tell you this? What, with the lipstick thing?

Jane Marie (21:56)

No.

Mackenzie (21:57)

So I get it because when I first sat down, I had applied limelight lipstick. Red, a really red lipstick.

Jane Marie (22:05)

You look great in red, by the way.

Mackenzie (22:07)

Thank you. So I've heard now. Oh. So I sit. So I sit down in this limelight lipstick because I want put to, you know, dress the part. And Jacob is walking down the stadium stairs and he does a double take and stops and looks at me and says, oh, my God, this gorgeous woman with this lipstick. It's incredible. Everyone, look at this. What is that? Of course, I say it's limelight lipstick. He says, oh, I knew it. I knew it. And then people start truly patting me on the back and, like, whispering to me. And people are smiling at me from across the room. And I felt like his light had shined on me.

Jane Marie (22:44)

He's like a celebrity.

Mackenzie (22:45)

This warm glow. I was bathing in it.

Jane Marie (22:49)

You get a compliment. You get a compliment. You get a compliment.

Mackenzie (22:53)

I mean, I get it because from that moment on, or at least at that moment, I felt really special. Then he gave us time to write in our diaries. I can't remember if he was calling them journals or diaries, but something that felt really intimate. We had to write down what our four year goals were. So he gave us some guidelines for how to think about it. You know, it could be abstract, it could be something really concrete. And then people start getting up one by one. They're called on to share their goals. And I kind of was expecting, based on, like, things I've seen online from other conferences like this, whether or not they're related to MLMs or just kind of like sales conferences, some really energetic interactions where people are like, cheering each other on and, and saying, like, you know, my goal is five years from now. I see myself driving in like a Lexus convertible, you know, wearing a mink and I don't know, whatever. What do people fantasize about? Eating caviar in one hand and like, steering with the other. So the first woman gets up and she's a mother of four children. She homeschools them and her husband, I think, something like something ridiculous and unbelievable, like three jobs to support them. And she's telling the story of how he never sleeps, he never eats, he comes home just to shower and then go back out. And so they're really struggling, and obviously their relationship is struggling. And her dream is to allow her husband to get a good night's sleep. She wants him to be able to come home at the end of the night and just sleep and not have to get dressed and go to a second job. So she's doing limelight so that she can take that burden off of him, at least some of that burden. So that was one story. Another woman has a son with special needs who isn't getting the care that he needs in the school that he's in. And she really wants to be able to either put him in a different school or get him some sort of support in the school, but that requires her paying for it. So she's doing limelight so that she can have that extra income to help her son who's disabled. Who's disabled. There is another woman whose husband's in the military. I think he's been in for four years. He's deployed now. He's missed all the major milestones of his kids growing up. And she really feels like he deserves to spend time with his children. And so she's doing this so that she can allow him to what she called retire from the military so that he can get another job that maybe doesn't pay as well, but she can help supplement that income. And then the one that really I sat next to this woman and really, really sweet, normal, down to earth woman from Michigan who got up and same story. Like, you know, she wants to help her husband. He's really overextending himself.

Jane Marie (25:50)

But.

Mackenzie (25:50)

But the bottom line for her is that her dad has not had a Gravestone in the 10 years that he's been dead and she is doing limelight to try to raise the money to get him that tombstone. Oh, also another woman whose marriage is falling apart and she is doing this to get the money to pay for therapy, couples therapy for her and her husband.

Jane Marie (26:14)

This is really depressing.

Mackenzie (26:16)

Yeah. So at this point I'm kind of a mix of angry and also sad on their behalf because I feel like they want real information, useful information.

Jane Marie (26:27)

You guys have been talking about that the night before.

Miracle Made Sheets Advertiser (26:29)

Right.

Mackenzie (26:29)

And I thought that's what we were gonna get. And then I get there and it's all this vague gibberish.

Jane Marie (26:34)

Yeah.

Mackenzie (26:35)

Just, it's like empty, empty words. And so I'm sitting here just thinking, I wish, I don't know, I'm not a financial advisor, but that someone would come in and say like open a 401k or start a savings account. And I was also hoping for tips on how to actually sell like concrete things you can do to sell products.

Jane Marie (26:56)

Like this sort of Instagram post works or this is your call to action in your email. Here's what you write.

Mackenzie (27:03)

Exactly. That gets people to click the. Embed a link. Exactly.

Jane Marie (27:07)

Use this photo.

Mackenzie (27:08)

Yes. The things that you would typically learn from a professional development class.

Jane Marie (27:14)

Also kind of unbelievable that people in these dire situations that this would be the thing.

Mackenzie (27:24)

I don't really understand it either. And I tried to ask the woman next to me, like, why this? And I couldn't really get an answer. Although she's done these before and her husband is not happy with it, but he's not happy because she's spending a lot of time trying to kickstart this business. And he feels now like they spend no time together. So that's their issue. But I went in thinking this was gonna be some like rah rah type event. And instead it started off, I mean, people were crying by 9:15, sharing these stories of the things that are lacking in their lives and what they're here for and what their four year goal with Limelight is, is to be able to get, get their special, the special needs resources for their child or a tombstone for a deceased parent. Like it's not, it's not like the fancy vacations no one was mentioning. You know, I think one lady said she wanted to go on vacation, but it was more like, I've never taken a trip with my family ever. So it wasn't like, you know, we just want to move to Paris for a month. It was more than that. So already there was something very interesting about everyone Being made to feel vulnerable or, like, being encouraged to feel really vulnerable. That was something that was initiated from the very, very start of the day. And I don't. Looking back, I don't think that's coincidental. I think there is something to the fact that within 10 minutes, everyone's crying. Everyone feels, like, super connected to each other. There's this emotional thing happening in this room, and it feels like therapy. It absolutely feels like therapy. And that guy Jacob is the therapist, and he's sitting there saying, like, well, how would you feel if this thing happened now? Talk me through that. What do you feel when this thing occurs? But then at the end of it all, he just goes like, oh, honey. Or gives some Instagram meme wisdom.

Jane Marie (29:31)

Instead of like, I think this traces back to something that happened with your. That you told me about in our last session with your father.

Mackenzie (29:38)

Yeah, exactly. Instead of jotting down notes, he's like, dismissively throwing out, tomorrow's a new day, and then just moves on to the next person.

Jane Marie (29:47)

And the things he was having you imagine were not. Like, how would you feel when you sell 20 lipsticks? It was like. Like nothing to do with makeup.

Mackenzie (29:55)

Well, so this is the other thing I realized now, having a day's distance from it. All of these women were here because they'd plateaued in their business. There wasn't a single person that I saw who got up into the microphone and said, like, I'm doing great, and I just want to do greater. Every single person was there because they started off okay, and now they're just, like, really not making any more money. Or I, you know, one woman said, I've been. I. I thought within six months I'd star director or whatever the rank is. And it's been two years, and I haven't progressed past beauty guide. And that was a recurring as people got up. Kind of the why are you here? Question. The answer seemed to consistently be, because I'm not moving forward in my business the way I feel like I should be.

Jane Marie (30:43)

And mind you, most people who join these companies get out way sooner. So these are, like, either die hard limelight fans or really desperate for this to work for some reason.

Mackenzie (30:53)

And then it became, you know, the second part of the day was sort of, well, how do you get there? And very clearly identifying the problem. The problem in every single situation was the person. There was never any other problem. I mean, we've got slides where Jacob is saying, is the reason you're not selling because your mindset is the wrong mindset? Is it because you're not organized enough? Is it because you're not optimistic enough? Okay. So he has these slides up and they disappear in no joke, probably 15 seconds. It's much faster than I can write them down. I was trying to take pictures of them. They're not online. They didn't send them to us or anything. So at the end of it, all I can remember is that we all just really suck at this. That doesn't really give you anything to work with.

Jane Marie (31:49)

No. Other than just self loathing.

Mackenzie (31:51)

No. And that's it. So all these people are here because they've identified a problem. The problem is I can't move my business forward. I don't know what else to do than what I've been doing. And it's not working. And his answer is, well, let's go back and look at what's wrong with you. There are all sorts of excuses that take the blame away from the company 1000%. Not at any point. And in fact, at multiple points, it was, stop blaming the company, stop blaming the products.

Sponsor Voice / Advertiser (32:16)

Seriously?

Mackenzie (32:17)

Yeah. I mean, it's not us. Like, if, to go back to the therapy analogy, like, there was a whole section of, like, what's preventing you from being the best beauty guide you can be? And it was like looking back at what your parents taught you, what your education was. All these factors go into the type of beauty guide you are. And sometimes you need to reprogram who you are. And then there was this whole thing about showing, like, your inspired future and creating this mood board.

Jane Marie (32:45)

A secret.

Mackenzie (32:46)

Yeah, essentially. And, like, put it as your screensaver and that. But there was no. There were no practical steps for getting anywhere. It was very much a, like, let's open ourselves up, talk about what's wrong, blame ourselves for those wrongs, agree that we're gonna change them with no tools about, right? None. And at one point they did this thing, which also now, thinking back on it, is so cheap and such a cheater's way. It's like the Cliff Notes version for them. He's saying, all right, so let's talk in small groups about best practices for sales tactics, recruitment tactics. And so he breaks us into small groups, and then we share what's working for us. And ironically, I haven't started yet, so I said, I'll take notes, but I don't have much to share in terms of what's working. The girl next to me was like, nothing's really working for me either. I have a few tips, but nothing major. And the two girls next to me Said that they have, like, one or two tips, but, yeah, recruitment, they've got nothing. So we only ended up coming up with. We were supposed to come up with 12 ideas. We came up with, like, six, because we only had six that worked between the four of us. And then they pooled all of the ideas and shared them for about 30 seconds on a PowerPoint slide. So literally, the only practical advice on how to improve your business was thrown up on a PowerPoint slide. I'm not joking. I didn't have time to even take a picture of it. It was up and gone so quickly. So we didn't talk about any of them. No one shared any of them. And we had a couple on ours that were kind of interesting and sort of offbeat. Like, one of the girls does a grab bag with all of the random products she has, and she'll say, you know, for $20, get, you know, surprise, surprise products. Which I thought was kind of a cool idea. It just creates interest or whatever. They didn't even put that on the list. So the list was literally like, be open and cheerful at your parties. Always leave your business card behind. I mean, it was stuff that was like, yeah, no kidding.

Jane Marie (34:55)

It's that time of year again. The holidays are coming fast. And if your kids are anything like mine, that wish list is getting pretty long. Let's be honest, some of the things on that list make us stop and think. Like a smartphone. Do they actually need all that stuff to stare at? Well, no, they don't just get them a gab. I got one for my kid. It has tracking, which I only look at every once in a while because I don't like to spy on her. It has a phone number. Very helpful. And it has a list of people you can text that I approve. Plus, I can spy on the text, which I don't do. Haven't had to yet. But if something weird comes in on one of those texts, I do get a notification. And then I look and it's just some dumb YouTube makeup video that the Gab phone doesn't let you watch.

Mackenzie (35:37)

So win, win, win, win, win, win.

Jane Marie (35:39)

I love it. Gab offers phones and watches made just for kids. No Internet, no social media, and just the right features for their age. Kids want phones to feel independent and connected. And as parents, we want to know they're safe. With Gab, you can have both and protect them from the scary stuff. With Gab's tech in steps approach, kids get the right tech at the right time from watches with GPS tracking for the youngest Explorers to the perfect first phone with no Internet or social media to the teen phones with parent approved apps. So get ready for a Christmas morning. They'll never forget the one where they get their first phone. And really, it's a gift for you too because these kidsafe phones will give you peace of mind. Visit gab.comthedream and use code thedream for a special holiday offer that's gabb.comthedream Gab Tuck in steps Independence for them, peace of mind for you.

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Sponsor Voice / Advertiser (38:54)

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Mackenzie (40:12)

The thing though about this that like really struck me is that he's sitting here saying, like, he thought a $400,000 house was so much and now, now he's in New York and like, he's looking at $750,000 houses. And that's reasonable in New York. And so that's his new, that's like what he's striving for, for his new budget. And it just felt really out of touch to me that you've got these women in this room who cannot pay their rent. And a $750,000 house is your example. Is your example of like, come on guys, if you just dream big enough, like, you could be looking at $750,000 houses. Like me as he's walking around in his suit. And speaking of suits, the girl next to me, like, I don't even know what this means. I just need to say this. So the girl next to me told me that she went to Target last night and bought herself a suit at Target to wear to this event because it's a business meeting. And so, you know, again, that contrast of this guy standing up there in his like, what looks like a bespoke suit. And he's giving an example again of buying these, going shoe shopping on fifth Avenue or whatever. And the girl next to me is like spending all of her money on a Target suit. So that she can come to this and look professional. There's just something really disconnected and, like, gross, gross about it. There were two women from corporate sitting in the back, and, you know, they must do this all the time. Obviously this isn't the first event like this they've done, but they're sitting there. And as at the end, there was this closing moment where women were invited up, up to share what they've learned for the day, or what he was calling their aha moment. I think Oprah coined that. But anyway, so there are aha moments. And the last one that spoke was a woman who said that up until a few months before she joined Limelight, she had been feeling suicidal, and she joined Limelight, and now she feels some sort of camaraderie and something else that was missing from her life. And she really feels like Limelight is sort of giving her this second chance for whatever reason. And I looked up and I looked behind her, and the two women from corporate, one is, like, staring straight ahead, not even registering this. The other woman is typing furiously at her computer, and she'd been typing all day. I'm guessing that she was still working, and she was probably there, but had emails to send or orders to fill or whatever. But this woman is talking about how four months before she joined Limelight, she, a mother of two children, was contemplating suicide. Everyone in the room was crying, and this woman at the end of the row was hitting send on her email. It was a really troubling, troubling moment for me because, God, I feel emotional. I think people came to this because they have hope. They have hope that something good is going to come out of it and that this will improve their lives. And some of their lives in some ways sound really shitty right now. I mean, some of the daily struggles these women are going through are real struggles. I mean, this isn't about getting a nicer car. I mean, and it's more fundamental than that. And you see that they're there and they're hopeful and they think this thing is going to change their lives. And they're pouring their hearts and souls out to the room. And the woman from corporate is emailing. She isn't even listening. She's not even paying attention to what's going on. And Jacob is standing at the front going, yeah, girl. You know, you got this, girl. And giving some, like, hashtag wisdom. And it just felt so gross at the end of it. I could not wait to get out of there. I could not wait to be away from the whole situation. I felt Extremely dirty, being in there and witnessing it. And when I went home and started thinking that a year from now, probably most of these women are not gonna be in a better situation than they're in now, if anything, because they're investing money in this opportunity. And it's just really, really disturbing. I mean, and they did it on purpose. And they did it on purpose.

Jane Marie (44:57)

I've never been to a work conference where any of this has happened.

Mackenzie (45:01)

Neither have I. Neither.

Jane Marie (45:03)

And I've been to a lot.

Mackenzie (45:04)

I would quit if that was my job. Look, I think it's nice to be vulnerable with your colleagues. And I think it's important for people to be open and honest and trust each other. But, like, that's at the bar.

Jane Marie (45:14)

After the conference, after you've learned all of the actual stuff, you really need to go back to your office and.

Mackenzie (45:19)

Implement there was nothing. So the whole conference was share your. Share your goal, then talk amongst yourselves and figure out how you're going to get there. But none of us are being successful right now, so how is that going to be useful? And then the only other thing that was tangible thing was this Excel sheet where you plug in, like, based on what your average sales are now and how many parties you do. If you were to continue that for like six months and then try to, like, add a party or maybe sell two more products a month, where could you get in 12 months and then eventually four years financially. But it's completely arbitrary. And they don't tell you. This is to help you visualize that. If you're selling $200 a month. Now, if you could just bump it up to 300 next month and then 400 the month after that, that by the end of the year you'll be making $15,000. But they don't tell you how to do it. It's just like, add. Add more money. Yeah, sell more. Like, duh. Okay, I know this whole thing is a ruse designed to keep people in it and spending money, but lie to me. At least pretend you think I'm smart enough to actually do this and treat it like a real business meeting. How hard is it?

Jane Marie (46:46)

Like, just pretend like you're at a business conference.

Mackenzie (46:49)

Yeah. I mean, there you can. You can get a.

Jane Marie (46:52)

A.

Mackenzie (46:52)

This is actually true. You can get a book at the library that gives you real ways to be successful in business. Take a book out of the library and read it to me at the conference.

Jane Marie (47:01)

Right.

Mackenzie (47:01)

Do something right. Don't just sit there and have it be a farce. I think really early on we used to jokingly have conversations about like, are people who start businesses like this in on it? Do they know that what they're, that what they're setting up is taking advantage of people? Or is it just, oh, this seems like an interesting business model, let's try this. And I, I'm, I think maybe the only one around here who really was like, I don't know, maybe they just think it seems like it's a nice business model and they're not realizing that there are people on the other side side of it or whatever. I kind of tended to give people the benefit of the doubt after yesterday. There is no doubt in my mind that everyone involved in that entire organization knows exactly what they're doing. They literally were just confronted with the faces and the stories of the people they're affecting and couldn't even bother to look up from their computers.

Jane Marie (48:19)

We reached out to limelife for an interview and we heard back from Jacob by email. It sounded exactly like you'd imagine. He's still deciding whether he wants to listen to the show, let alone talk to us. The dream is a production of Little Everywhere.

Mackenzie (48:44)

If you want to get this show.

Jane Marie (48:45)

With no ads, go to thedream.supercast.com you can call us at 323-248-1488 if you have a tip. And our email is hellotleverywhere.com.

Sponsor Voice / Advertiser (49:19)

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Jane Marie (50:34)

Can I make my sight firmer?

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Paige from Giggly Squad (51:01)

Hey guys, it's Paige from Giggly Squad and if you're anything like me, holiday shopping has officially started and you know where I'm going. Ulta Beauty they have the cutest gift sets right now like the Sol de Janeiro, Shea Rosa and Cheer Perfume Mist trio. It smells so good. I've been misting it everywhere on me, on the street, on my pillow. It's a whole vibe I'm obsessed with the Tarte Kindness Cafe Collector set. It's packed with everyday makeup must haves and it's honestly too cute to rack. And if you need a cozy little self care moment, the Moroccan Oil Hand Care Essentials kit is luxe, hydrating and smells delicious. Don't worry if you can't decide right now. An Ulta Beauty gift card is the perfect gift for everyone. So whether you're gifting your bestie or yourself, make the season yours and head to Ulta Beauty today. Ulta Beauty gifting happens here.

Jane Marie (51:50)

Hey dream listeners. It's finally here. The Dream plus where you can get every single episode of our show with no ads. It's $5 a month. It's the only tier. No commercials plus bonus content. This helps keep us independent and your contribution will help change the way every listener hears the dream. We'll be able to take out the ads that we don't even know are getting put into this show, which is annoying to both you and us. We're also going to have an amazing discussion board. The interface has it cataloged under ama. Ask me Anything, but I don't love rules. So what I did is started a bunch of threads like Ask Dan and I Questions, General Chitchat, just to make friends and stuff. And every time I've been in charge of a discussion board, I've made a tab called Women Be Shoppin' and it's there and we're just gonna talk about what we bought and it'll be fun. That's the dream.S-P-E-R C-A-S t.com super cast please, please go. Subscribe. It's five bucks. It's less than a latte if you live in Los Angeles. See you there.