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- [00:01]
Howie Mandel
I can't tell you how often I hear, oh, I'm a little ocd. I like things neat. That's not ocd. I'm Howie Mandel and I know this because I have ocd. Actual OCD causes relentless unwanted thoughts. What if I did something terrible and forgot? What if I'm a bad person? Why am I thinking this terrible thing? It makes you question absolutely everything and you'll do anything to feel better. OCD is debilitating, but it's also highly treatable with the right kind of therapy. Regular talk therapy doesn't cut it. OCD needs specialized therapy. That's why I want to tell you about NO cd. NOCD is the world's largest virtual therapy provider for ocd. Their licensed therapists provide specialized therapy virtually and it's covered by insurance for over 155 million Americans. If you think you might be struggling with OCD, visit nocd.com to schedule a free 15 minute call and learn more. That's n o c d dot com.
- [01:01]
Unknown
Got a new puppy or kitten. Congrats. But also, yikes. Between crates, beds, toys, treats, and those first few vet visits, you've probably already dropped a small fortune. Which is where Lemonade pet insurance comes in. It helps you cover vet costs so that you can focus on what's best for you and your new pet. The coverage is customizable, sign up is quick and easy, and your claims are handled in as little as three seconds. Lemonade offers a package specifically for puppies and kittens. Get a'llemonade.com pet, your future self will thank you. Your pet won't. They don't know what insurance is.
- [01:42]
Jane Marie
I'm Jane Marie and this is the dream. The beauty industry is a scam. That's our show. Thanks for listening. We'll see you here next week. No, but really kind of feels like a scam, doesn't it? Like you'll see ads online for some lotion that has CO Cleptonel and then their patented ingredient in it. And they're like 97% of the people who use this on their skin report reaching total enlightenment. But right next to it, there's a product that's the exact same kind of product, but it's like Cokhnop for Lenomol is gonna kill you and your children and your dog. That's for my dog, people. It's really hard to tell what's real and what's not. What'll kill you and what won't. What works to make you look and feel beautiful and what Doesn't. I don't know. I find myself getting so confused and overwhelmed that I just ask for free samples of everything, everywhere, at every store. And a lot of times they give them to you. That's a hot tip for me. But then I don't use them and then I just use Vaseline and call it a day. Back when I was a beauty reporter, I would get some samples, but they would be for anti aging stuff. And I'd think to myself, do I need to use this for 10 years? And then for write the article. Doesn't make any sense anyway. I've always wanted to talk to someone inside the industry about what's a scam and what isn't. Which ingredients are actually good or bad or helpful or harmful and how much should I pay for them and do I actually need any of it or can I save my money and let sunshine and stress do all the work? Today's guest is that person.
- [03:19]
Charlotte Palermino
I am Charlotte Palermino. I live in New York City, Brooklyn, to be specific. I co founded a skincare company about five, six years ago and we launched and we're now in 600 Sephora's, which is a crazy thing to say. And in that journey, I know, and in that journey, my co founder, who's a cosmetic chemist with over a decade of experience, she completely changed my mind on what I thought I knew about beauty. And this was after having worked in women's media for about a decade. And so it's been a huge education launching a brand, but doing it transparently and actually following science versus marketing and trends that really do work for conversion to sales.
- [03:58]
Jane Marie
Whoa. Okay, great.
- [03:59]
Charlotte Palermino
And I'm an esthetician. And I'm an esthetician, so that's fun. I like touching people's faces.
- [04:04]
Jane Marie
Tell me more about your background before you started your company.
- [04:09]
Charlotte Palermino
So I worked at big publications like Hearst. I worked at small blogging networks like say Media. You know, I was really solidly in publishing and I started in branded content, which then turned into growth hacking, which then turned into me actually doing editorial.
- [04:26]
Jane Marie
What in the hell is growth hacking?
- [04:29]
Charlotte Palermino
I'm so sorry. I was part of this movement. Do you remember buzzfeed and how their headlines would just go absolutely viral because they would play on people's emotions.
- [04:39]
Jane Marie
Yes.
- [04:40]
Charlotte Palermino
So what we would do is that we would take a headline, we would see how it performed from like a data perspective, and then we would basically continue to iterate on say headline image, selects clips, anything to get more clicks and views and time spent so that people could consume More advertising. And I got really good at writing headlines and figuring out how to put words together to get people to engage on the Internet. That I then just started writing the articles. And so that's how I got into editorial. And then I launched Snapchat Discover at Cosmo. And so then I actually worked at Snapchat for two and a half years. I worked in 2016 on launching just purely political channels on Snapchat. That really burned me out in 2016. And so I realized I wanted to work in physical product because I saw where publishing was going.
- [05:31]
Jane Marie
Yeah.
- [05:32]
Charlotte Palermino
So I didn't know what I wanted to make, but I knew that I did not want to make a digital product, AKA content, which is ironic because now all I do is make digital content, but to sell physical products. So here's the trap that literally everyone operating into today's society is in. But I really wanted to create a product and a brand that would start to undo the harms that I was seeing happening real time, particularly around misinformation. Yeah, the beauty to anti vaxxer pipeline is very strong. And I think what's really interesting is what we see as very innocuous consumption habits. Right? Like, oh, I just don't wanna eat seed oils or oh, sunscreen is actually toxic because, you know, the FDA asked for more information, therefore it's evil. Right. Like you keep seeing these things that are actually based around consumption. Typically, especially when it comes to beauty, it's not really seen as impactful because, oh, it's just women's stuff. It's not really important. It's just vanity. I just saw people start to become extremely radicalized. Almost like how if you engage a piece of Fox News content on Facebook, all of a sudden you can just find yourself becoming a full blown QAnon. And so because I worked in media for so long, I clocked it very early on. And so I wanted to find a partner who was a cosmetic chemist or somebody with a deep science backgr, because I don't have these. I'm not. I'm not a woman in stem. I'd love to be, but I wanted somebody who was in STEM so that they could help me navigate all of this, but also make incredible formulas and just show people what science can actually do for your skin. Because at the end of the day, there is a limit to what skincare can do. But your skin is an organ and you absolutely can deliver ingredients to it on the surface of the skin to like literally manipulate it histologically. Like, you can definitely generate collagen you can definitely moisturize, you can reverse hyperpigmentation, but there's a limit to what cosmetics are going to do. Then there's drugs, then there's dermatological interventions. Right. But just helping people navigate all of that and not make them feel stupid. Because I fell for a lot of the non toxic beauty stuff when I was first starting out in the industry, particularly when I was working at women's media.
- [07:45]
Jane Marie
Tell me about what you fell for and when, like, how old were you when you first started getting interested in like, what does this stu actually do?
- [07:53]
Charlotte Palermino
So my grandmother, my mamie, she lives in France. Starting kids early on skincare and avoiding the sun like the plague is really important. So my grandmother, extremely fair and she got sunburned once in her life and she was like, I'm allergic to the sun. That's what a sunburn is. She never went in the sun again. And when I tell you my grandmother has impeccable skin and she's never done anything other than use Nivea, it's because of her habits. She doesn't smell smoke. She'll drink, but she'll always put an ice cube in it. Like she is our health queen just.
- [08:26]
Jane Marie
To water down the drink.
- [08:28]
Charlotte Palermino
Yeah, but that's how she drinks water, because she doesn't trust water because she says it rusts your insides. Listen, she's also not a woman in stem, but she, she gets her water.
- [08:39]
Jane Marie
From ice cubes and wine.
- [08:40]
Charlotte Palermino
She's just so common sense.
- [08:42]
Jane Marie
She's.
- [08:42]
Charlotte Palermino
Yes, that's where she gets all of her water. She thinks people drink too much water. But the thing is that she's just very common sense about things, you know, except for. It's like, she's like. Except that. Well, I mean, my sister, who's a veterinarian is like. Actually, I'm like, you know what, all of you, I can't listen to any of you. I'm drinking water, I'm thirsty. But it's a very common sense approach where she's like, you just sleep, you don't go in the sun, and you just have habits that don't make you unhealthy. Therefore, your skin isn't going to age as quickly because your skin is largely impacted by your genetics. And so the first skincare product that I ever used was Nivea. I was nine. My grandmother just told me to use it every single night because I have chronically dry skin.
- [09:22]
Jane Marie
Which is just a moisturizer. Correct?
- [09:25]
Charlotte Palermino
It's just a moisturizer.
- [09:26]
Jane Marie
And is it also. I feel like it has. It's the best dupe for La Mer. Correct?
- [09:32]
Charlotte Palermino
Exactly. But the Internet, the bloggers will tell you that it is the most toxic product out there because it has paraffin wax and petrolatum and fragrance. And they're hiding ingredients from you in fragrance and, like, all this nonsense.
- [09:48]
Jane Marie
Slow down. You know so much more about this than the average person. So I want us to just make sure.
- [09:53]
Charlotte Palermino
So I'll. I'll go back to the origin story. So I was in university and I was using my Nivea, and my friend comes into my bathroom and is like, I cannot believe you would be using gasoline on your face. And I'm looking at her and I'm like, I'm pretty sure this is Nivea. And she was like, no, it has this toxic ingredient called petrolatum, and that's gasoline. And so I freaked out. I ended up buying Dr. Hauschka, which, if anyone remembers that brand, it's like what Madonna was purported to use.
- [10:22]
Jane Marie
It's so expensive.
- [10:24]
Charlotte Palermino
It's so expensive. I was so not of the budget to be buying it. Like, I was, like, choosing meals in this cream, and it had a ton of essential oils in it. So I started developing a rash, and when I went to, like, my friend and I was like, hey, this thing's giving me a rash. She's like, no, no. It's your skin purging all of the toxins to. From the years of using that petrol atom. And so I kept using it and using it and using it until I was hanging out at my friend's house, and her mother is a dermatologist. And she looks at me and she pulls me aside and she was like, you have a really bad case of perioral dermatitis. You need to stop using everything with essential oils and fragrances. You need to stop using anything rich and heavy. You can't use any skincare. Just use this prescription.
- [11:07]
Jane Marie
Wait, wait, wait, wait, wait. What's perioral dermatitis?
- [11:10]
Charlotte Palermino
It's actually becoming increasingly common. It's.
- [11:14]
Unknown
I think I have it right now.
- [11:15]
Jane Marie
Is why I'm asking you.
- [11:16]
Charlotte Palermino
It's basically like a muzzle rash is the best way I can say I call it my muzzle, but it's, like, around your nose, around your mouth, and it's, like, weird. It looks like a, like, the unholy baby of, like, rosacea and eczema. It's, like, scaly. It can sometimes have little bumps. But it's basically a lot of people, like, will say, oh, it's like retinol and you know, exfoliants, which are, they're called keratolytics. They basically increase cell turnover. But, you know, there's a whole other side of the dermatology world that it's like, no, it's because you're using things that your skin doesn't like, like fragrances or essential oils, which are natural fragrances, but natural fragrances, the gag is because they have so many components in it, because plants are very complex, they actually cause more allergic reactions than synthetic fragrances. So natural, natural fragrances are actually far more irritating for your skin. And like half the time they aren't even doing the proper testing to see if there's like heavy metals in it. So I could go on a full rant about essential oils. And so that was kind of my first foray into like non toxic beauty and the idea of like dirty chemicals, you know, lingering in your products. It was, you know, my, my nivea cream to Dr. Hauschka to a dermatologist, really sitting me down and basically telling me, do not fall for this, like, do not go down this path. Because I think she was starting to see it a lot in her pract. And this was in like 2011. And so now we're 2025. So 14 years later.
- [12:46]
Jane Marie
Yeah. So you, you started thinking about your skincare differently.
- [12:50]
Charlotte Palermino
Very differently. And I was working with Mormon mommy bloggers in 2012 and they were all talking about this, the same thing that my friend was telling me. Oh, the essential oils will purge the toxins out of your skin. And I'm like, oh my God, all these people with rashes thinking that they. Toxins being purged. These poor people.
- [13:12]
Jane Marie
So what was your next step?
- [13:14]
Charlotte Palermino
Oh, I went, I went straight. So in terms of like my habits, I just completely ignored everything that influencers were saying and I went straight down the Laroche, Posay, boring French pharmacy skincare. And my skin totally thrived. And because I was working in women's media, I was seeing so much misinformation being published. Right. Like you would get a source, like a brand source to say something for an article, right? Because when you get, when you write an article, you typically have anywhere between three to five sources and there would usually be somebody from the industry and they would always be spouting misinformation, which would always be the headline instead of what like the dermatologist was saying, if that makes sense.
- [13:55]
Jane Marie
So it would be like the headline would be nivea has gas in it. Don't put the face or whatever.
- [14:01]
Charlotte Palermino
Exactly, exactly. And so as we saw more and more people just not getting past the headline, I'm like, oh, like we are red pilling people in the wrong direction.
- [14:11]
Jane Marie
If you wouldn't mind, could we go down a list of products that are not well understood by people or maybe.
- [14:19]
Charlotte Palermino
Oh, absolutely.
- [14:20]
Jane Marie
Villainized. Yeah.
- [14:21]
Charlotte Palermino
From an ingredient standpoint, I would say that chemical sunscreens have been villainized. Chemical sunscreens or organic filters are basically ingredients that just like zinc, will absorb UV radiation. Right? So there's mineral sunscreens like zinc and titanium dioxide. And then you have chemical sunscreens like homosalate, octocrylene, avobenzone. And there's been a lot of misinformation about these sunscreen filters where people say that, oh, mineral sunscreen is the only safe option, which just really is not true. I heard just today on the House Energy and Commerce Committee hearing on how the FDA is going to run moving forward with all the job cuts that are happening.
- [15:02]
Jane Marie
Right.
- [15:03]
Charlotte Palermino
So it's basically imploding is what the gist of it is. Chemical sunscreens, even in that hearing, had so much misinformation being thrown around. And so that's one example of things that are really misunderstood. The percentage in which you should use these ingredients is what's up for debate. Right? Because, for example, a lot of people hear that Europe is like this paragon of safety. Europe allows all of these chemical sunscreens. None of them are banned. They're just allowed to be used in different percentages. Right? So it's again, it's like instead of getting into the nuance, it's far more popular on the Internet to just demonize something and to tell people that companies and the government are trying to kill you. And so I have the solution. Right. It's a very similar sales pitch that you see kind of across all the different products. So another example would be parabens. Parabens are preservative systems that are used in cosmetics. They have been very, very demonized by the industry, despite the fact that methylparaben is a natural preservative found in many berries like blueberries. You eat parabens every single day, yet we act like putting it in skincare is going to kill you. And what's happened now in the US Is that we have this ridiculous conversation where we're taking out parabens and we're replacing it with preservative systems that we actually don't even know are safe. And so it's like this, this cycle that we go down where we keep taking out Ingredients, because that's the real scam to me. And a lot of these like non toxic beauty movements is that it's all about taking things out of your skincare versus talking about like how to make your skincare better by putting something in there.
- [16:42]
Jane Marie
Right?
- [16:43]
Charlotte Palermino
And so it's just, it's a, it's like I did poli sci as one of my minors in university and I was like, it feels like nuclear deterrence where it's like an arms race of how many free from claims you can, you know, accumulate. And so that's really how I feel about a lot of these ingredients. It's a misunderstanding of the ingredient and the complexity of an ingredient.
- [17:04]
Jane Marie
You said the free from lists, but that's like on the back of a bottle of shampoo, right? Where it's like paraben free.
- [17:12]
Charlotte Palermino
Silicone free.
- [17:13]
Jane Marie
Silicone free vegan.
- [17:15]
Charlotte Palermino
I don't know, Jane, there's now a lot of beef tallow out there. And so you don't want some cow tallow?
- [17:22]
Jane Marie
What the hell is that about?
- [17:25]
Charlotte Palermino
Again, it is another like beauty to conservative pipeline. It is wild to me. So my mother actually used to use beef tallow. It's actually a European thing I want to say and just a little piece of history. So European settlers, when they came to the United States, they used beef tallow on open wounds to help them heal. And then they learned about what Native Americans were doing with petrolatum. So the first recorded use in Western history of petrolatum is actually with Native American tribes in Pennsylvania. And so you know where Vaseline was created.
- [18:02]
Jane Marie
Vaseline is petrolatum.
- [18:04]
Charlotte Palermino
Exactly. Vaseline is petrolatum. But where did that brand get its idea from the oil fields in Pennsylvania? Because the, because basically the work hands were using. It's called rod wax. When you're extracting oil from the ground, there's a waxy buildup that happens. And so they would use that on their cuts and wounds. And so it's just interesting that there's so much history from Native Americans to then the oil fields in the 1800s of using the byproducts of the fossil fuel industry for wound care. And so for me it's like with the beef tallow people, I'm like, it's just a irritating and it goes rancid much more quickly than Vaseline. It's, it's just not. I don't, I don't. It's again a miracle. It's like selling you a miracle. And at best it's a mid moisturizer.
- [18:52]
Jane Marie
Right?
- [18:53]
Charlotte Palermino
You know, right it's like, not the devil. It's not evil. It's not toxic. It's not any of those things. But I'm like, it's so mid. Like, I just don't. I'll never understand.
- [19:15]
Dan
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- [22:55]
Jane Marie
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- [25:57]
Charlotte Palermino
Well, it's because it is the most effective. It's like literally the most effective ingredient to slow trans epidermal water loss. Which when your skin is dry, it's because you have a lot of cracks in your skin and because your skin doesn't have a lot of oil on it. So you're literally evaporating from your body. And so petrolatum, it seals. Seals it at 99% because you still want that 1% breathability for wound repair. Because if you completely seal suffocates it.
- [26:28]
Jane Marie
Yeah.
- [26:28]
Charlotte Palermino
Okay. So silicones dimethicone. This is another one that people get very upset about because they're like, it's like putting plastic on your face. But really, dimethicone is a very safe Ingredient to use. It's one of the best ingredients to use with acne. But the thing is, is that because it's used in so many skincare products, some people do have a sensitivity to it. So, you know, not everyone can use any ingredient. And the other thing that people love to say about silicones is that it is terrible for the environment because it doesn't degrade. But it depends again, right. Like, silicones is like a category of, like, hundreds of different ingredients. So there's maybe dimethicone, which is a D4. It's like, there's different categorizations for silicones. So dimethicone, as an example, the European Union is like, this is a safe ingredient to use. It is not bad for the environment because it breaks down organically. So it's biodegradable. And yet people still jump on it because there's other categories of silicones which are called cyclic silicones that do not break down in the environment. And those are banned. Those are getting increasingly banned in Europe. And so it's like in the United States, I just notice, more so than in any other country, that we take a category and we demonize the whole thing, and it's usually to sell you a more expensive alternative.
- [27:57]
Jane Marie
Right.
- [27:57]
Charlotte Palermino
And so I get really wary. Are silicones great for everyone in every situation? No. But does that mean that they're universally bad and that they should be banned and that the FDA doesn't care about us because they allow them in? Products also know. Right. It's like we're very black and white where. When really it's just nuanced. And it depends. But it depends is not a powerful marketing statement.
- [28:22]
Jane Marie
Exactly.
- [28:23]
Charlotte Palermino
So that's where we're at.
- [28:25]
Jane Marie
I would love to see that, though, on the back of a moisturizer bottle.
- [28:28]
Charlotte Palermino
Well, it's actually on the back of Instant Angel. We're like, listen, this isn't for everyone.
- [28:33]
Jane Marie
I love it. That's one of your products.
- [28:36]
Charlotte Palermino
Yes. Yes. We try Nuance. It's hard, though. It's hard to compete in this attention economy when you're not using fear or shame, which tend to be traditional levers in beauty.
- [28:48]
Jane Marie
What's that website where they tell parents to go to when. When your babies are little? Kind of.
- [28:53]
Charlotte Palermino
Is it the. Is it the ew? Ewg?
- [28:56]
Jane Marie
Yes. Can we talk about that for a little bit?
- [28:58]
Charlotte Palermino
So, yeah, I mean, the EWG is interesting. I actually had a call with them last week.
- [29:02]
Jane Marie
Environmental Working Group. Is that what it called? Yes, it stands for. Yes.
- [29:06]
Charlotte Palermino
And it's really interesting because they actually Seem to be really well intentioned. They made a post the other two weeks ago about Jim Jones stepping down from was it the fda? And you know, he had worked for years at the epa, had so much research and, you know, had so much, you know, just experience and like, this is awful for the fda. And if you look at the comments, ewg, they had this post and the comments were all like, you're part of the deep state. You're trying to tell us that the FDA is good. You've been telling us for decades that the FDA is not protecting us. And they were just baffled. They're like, no, we think there should be more regulation. And I was like, well, here's the thing. So when candidates run on change, right? You can have Bernie Sanders, which is very much so about more regulation, or you can get a Trump candidate where they're like, burn it all to the ground and replace it with nothing. Either way, you're playing to people's fears and anger. And so we got the Trump end of the stuff. And so now we are in this world where we're actually deregulating everything, which is going to make things so much more unsafe.
- [30:13]
Jane Marie
But it's going to be packaged as safer by Robert Kennedy.
- [30:17]
Charlotte Palermino
Exactly. And so the EWG was horrified. But I was trying to explain to them that when you tell them that things are toxic and that the FDA is not taking any action on it, and the reason the FDA is not taking action on parabens, for example, is because they're safe. You know what I mean? It's like you've created fears that aren't real and it's worth exploring. I always want to say that it's like, oh, there's a concern. The science changes, right? Science is not something that's immobile. If there's a safety concern, let's look into it. But when something has been proven over and over and over again, it is just bad faith to then ask for more research. It's exactly what's happening with vaccines and autism right now. This has been debunked. This has been debunked for years. And yet it is just such a bad faith argument. What is happening now is that there's quote, unquote, more research being done by RFK so that he can prove out his thesis. That's not science. Science is having a hypothesis, not having your answer before you start the research. And so I think that with the ewg, I'm hoping to see a lot of changes from them because they're quite a powerful organization. But I think that they've been a huge destabilizing force in terms of miseducating people on what to actually focus on for more safe products.
- [31:34]
Jane Marie
I only looked into them for a hot second. When I was pregnant. I went to this. It was a mommy group, but we sat around with birth coaches and doulas and midwives asking all the questions about how to make sure our babies are healthy. And everyone was really into the Environmental Working Group's app and looking everything up on there. And I, once we got into the area of like, you have to replace all of your garden hoses because they might have lead in them, I quit. I was just like, I'm gonna have a baby. Do you think that that's not stressful enough? Like, how am I supposed to. Whatever.
- [32:12]
Charlotte Palermino
It's actually how they get you. This kind of movement usually gets women in particular when they are pregnant because you're vulnerable, you're scared, you have a lot of pressure being put on you because anything you do might hurt the baby. And so it's a really easy way to prey when there actually isn't that much data. Like, even if you want to look at retinol, retinol, vitamin A, it's a very well studied ingredient that helps with collagen production, with actually compacting your stratum cornea. It gives you this like very glossy glass, like skin. Retinol is a miracle ingredient. It strengthens your skin on an incredible level. And so what's, what's fascinating is that that's an ingredient that has been demonized by platforms like the Environmental Working Group.
- [32:58]
Jane Marie
For what?
- [32:59]
Charlotte Palermino
Because vitamin A toxicity and because it's not safe to use when pregnant. But there's a big asterisk there because the only tests on pregnancy were done on oral isotretinoin. So actual ingested vitamin A. Right. So the vitamin A that you're eating. So it's not a one to one for topical retinal application. But as we're seeing from Texas right now, I don't know if you read, but all the children that are being rushed to the hospital with all the measles complications, they're also finding that they have liver damage from vitamin A toxicity because their parents are overdosing them on vitamin A. So for me, this is such a full circle moment into how these platforms actually just push you away from science. And you're probably like, you'd be better off just slathering yourself head to toe when you're pregnant in retinol than overdosing your kid on A vitamin A supplement, right? It's driving me crazy. I'm like, the retinol thing is like, I will never let it go. I was like, the crunchy mamas told you to stop. Stop using it. And now they're overdosing their children on vitamin A instead of just getting the measles vaccine. I've lost it. So there's like, a lot of different things. It's like, very hard to find skincare that works if you're not going with, like, the dermatology type brands or if you're just using. Just use simple skincare if you're confused. Right? That's my thing. I'm like, don't get complicated because is much easier to get scammed.
- [34:23]
Jane Marie
What's that cheapy shortcut version you're just talking about? Can you just tell our audience, like.
- [34:28]
Charlotte Palermino
K Beauty, for example. Like, people talk about K Beauty. It's so amazing.
- [34:31]
Jane Marie
Korean beauty.
- [34:32]
Charlotte Palermino
Yes, Korean beauty.
- [34:33]
Jane Marie
Why are they so into to skincare, by the way? I don't understand what. Why that is the hub.
- [34:38]
Charlotte Palermino
Crushingly high beauty standards. Crushingly high beauty standards. The amount of plastic surgery ads I saw when I was there, I was like, do I get a facelift? I was like, what are you trying to tell me? Like, in Korea, it's a very simple approach to skincare. They're not big on, you know, complicated actives. It's a lot of soothing ingredients. It's really hard to fuck up a routine when you're doing Korean beauty or French beauty, for example. French. It's boring beauty products, right? They're simple, they're effective, but they aren't exciting. Like, the US has some spicy good skincare, like, amazing chemical peels, a lot of moisturizers that have really great peptides in it that actually can firm the skin. Right? Like, there's a lot of spicier things in the United States. But for me, if you're just starting out, I would start with the basics, which would be French beauty or Korean beauty. The one thing I would watch out for with Korean beauty is dusting, where you take a tiny bit of like, Centella Asiatica, you just sprinkle it in. And then all the marketing is around how this amazing soothing cream is, like, packed with this, like, ingredient. And then I went to one of these contract manufacturers and I was like, oh, so how much do you put in there? And they're like, oh, none. It's for marketing.
- [35:52]
Jane Marie
None.
- [35:53]
Charlotte Palermino
Just a sprinkling. The tiniest. It's like the very bottom of the ingredient list. I was like, wait, what? And he's like, yeah, it's a very expensive ingredient. We could never put it at a high enough amount and keep the product at this price. And I'm like, cool.
- [36:06]
Jane Marie
So what are the three things that you would like if someone was broke but also wanted to have improve their skin, what are the essentials?
- [36:16]
Charlotte Palermino
I'll go with categories, because you love Vaseline, but it's not for everyone. So I would start with a cleanser, especially if you live in a city because the air quality is disgusting and that does end up on your face and you want something gentle. The next one would be an amazing sunscreen. I love Korean sunscreens. Those are excellent. I also love French sunscreens, Spanish sunscreens, Australian sunscreens. Even if you go to, like, Mexico, you can find fantastic sunscreens. I would say just a sunscreen that you love and you can use every single day. That's not going to break the bank. And then the last thing I would say is a really great moisturizer. Right. So sunscreen during the day can replace your moisturizer, and then at night, you can just use a different moisturizer. So those would be the three things.
- [37:01]
Jane Marie
How do you feel about. So what I do is I kind of stack my sunscreen like I have it. I make sure that there's SPF in every single thing I put on my face.
- [37:09]
Charlotte Palermino
Yep.
- [37:09]
Jane Marie
Essentially. Is that a good idea or am I being stupid?
- [37:12]
Charlotte Palermino
You're not being stupid, but it depends. It's literally the most. I am the most annoying person to answer these questions. So it depends. So if you are using chemical sunscreens with mineral sunscreens, you need to make sure that the zinc in the mineral sunscreen is coated, because what can happen is that that zinc can react with chemical filters and it can destabilize. So sunscreens are tough to stabilize. And so you want to make sure that that zinc is coated and you're fine. So how do I know? You have to ask the brand, and some brands won't tell you. It's fucking annoying. But it's also important to note that if you take an SPF 20 and then layer a 20 on top of it, you're not getting, like, SPF 40.
- [37:53]
Jane Marie
Right, right, right.
- [37:54]
Charlotte Palermino
SPF 20.
- [37:54]
Jane Marie
Yeah. No, I just want to make sure it gets everywhere. It's kind of my approach also to self tanner is like, I do the spray and then I use the wipes, and then I use the mitt.
- [38:05]
Charlotte Palermino
Yeah.
- [38:05]
Jane Marie
Just so that I don't miss any spots. But that's kind of what I'm thinking when I'm making sure it's in every.
- [38:10]
Charlotte Palermino
That's a pro tip.
- [38:12]
Jane Marie
Oh, good. Okay. There you go, audience. I'm not doing it to, like, double the strength. I'm doing it to make sure that I hit all of the little spots that I need to.
- [38:23]
Charlotte Palermino
Nooks and crannies.
- [38:24]
Jane Marie
Yeah, all the nooks and crannies. So what's. Oh, wait, what's my Korean sunscreen called? It's the one on the white tube with the little. It's like black and white writing, and it's very chic and beautiful, and it blends in really well. What the fuck is that brand called?
- [38:40]
Charlotte Palermino
Beauty of Joseon.
- [38:41]
Jane Marie
Yes. Beauty of Joseon. Yep. Oh, do you like that one or no?
- [38:45]
Charlotte Palermino
I adore that one. I was actually just. I was with the founder the other day. I love Beauty of Joseon. Yeah. They're launching a US Version. The current one's not great. They're trying to launch another one, but those. The great sunscreens from Beauty of Josun, they are the ones that are with the international sunscreen filters. So for those who don't know listening right now, the last time an American sunscreen or a new sunscreen filter was approved in the United States was in the 1990s. So we're about 30 years behind every other country. And so the sunscreens that you find in Korea or in Japan or in Brazil or in France or Australia, they're all so much better.
- [39:27]
Jane Marie
Great. And you make a sunscreen?
- [39:30]
Charlotte Palermino
No, not yet. No. You guys, we're trying. Okay, well, we're actually trying to lobby the government to approve these new filters, but because everything's just been, like, gutted, we don't know what's happening. It's crazy. Oh, I know. And I'm so sorry to inform you, but Biden, well put through the Modernization of Cosmetics Regulation Act. So now it's gonna be so much harder to get Korean sunscreens in the United States because they've been operating in technically an illegal market. It's illegal to sell these sunscreens here. Oh. And so. Yes.
- [40:03]
Jane Marie
So I just got lucky that I found, like, the right shop in Little Tokyo.
- [40:07]
Charlotte Palermino
No, it's common in cities. But I just found out that my favorite, a beauty store, they are no longer gonna be selling Beauty of Joe sun soon. So soon you're only gonna be able to buy them online. And that's until the extra FDA finds that and will probably close that loophole.
- [40:31]
Dan
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- [40:32]
Charlotte Palermino
Weekly.
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- [44:20]
Jane Marie
Okay, a few dumb personal questions. Ready La Mer?
- [44:23]
Charlotte Palermino
Yes.
- [44:24]
Jane Marie
Why do I love it?
- [44:25]
Charlotte Palermino
I mean it's if you have money.
- [44:27]
Jane Marie
Why do I use it every single night?
- [44:29]
Charlotte Palermino
Because it has, it has paraffin wax. I don't know if the miracle. I don't know about that miracle broth. I don't know how much they're using it. But the thing is, is like it's a well formulated cream. I think people get mad because of the price. Like nobody gets mad about men buying like, like stupid cars. A cream is much cheaper than a car. I, I just don't understand the ire around it.
- [44:49]
Jane Marie
I don't either.
- [44:50]
Charlotte Palermino
Well, I think the thing is like, well, you can find better moisturizers for less. And I'm like, well, if you just like it then you just like it. Like I don't really need to all over your cream, but do you need to buy it? Are you missing out on something that will like, you know, is it a facelift?
- [45:03]
Jane Marie
No, I got a free sample from it wasn't even for me. It was one of my co workers got a free sample and she gave me the dregs and I. That was like 10 years ago. And anytime I've tried to go off of it, I just. It doesn't. I don't feel good. Like, my skin feels really dry or I get broken out or whatever. So I'm like, you know, small price to pay for, like, not having tons of acne. And I just finally refilled. I haven't been using it this past year and I finally got a refill, like last week.
- [45:34]
Charlotte Palermino
Gave.
- [45:34]
Jane Marie
I gave Dan the gift with purchase collection. He's so excited about it. But I, you know, once I get my night cream back, I'm just like, ah, yosh. Like, it just feels. It feels better.
- [45:47]
Charlotte Palermino
Exactly.
- [45:47]
Jane Marie
My skin feels better.
- [45:48]
Charlotte Palermino
I'm not yucking people's yuck. It's a great. It's like, I'm sorry. But also paraffin wax, which is in there. It is by far a better, I guess you would call it an occlusive. It's something that traps water in the skin. It's far more effective than some of these, like, fancier ingredients, you know, So I, I am not. I'm not a la Mer hater. I hate. I'm a la Mer hater. If you use it because you thought it was gonna, like, you know, give you a facelift, or if you felt like you had to buy it and you didn't pay your rent and you bought the mayor, that makes me mad. But, like, if you like it, like, okay, yeah, some people feel expensive. Champagne.
- [46:26]
Jane Marie
Yeah.
- [46:27]
Charlotte Palermino
Prosecco is also alcoholic. I don't. Why are we doing this?
- [46:30]
Jane Marie
Just because I like it.
- [46:32]
Charlotte Palermino
Yeah.
- [46:33]
Jane Marie
So Dan's wondering, is skincare genderless?
- [46:40]
Charlotte Palermino
So, yes and no. In the sense that there will be trends that you see with men. Some people have a little bit oilier skin. Right. It's a little bit more common, slightly thicker. Stratum corneum, which is the top layer of your skin.
- [46:54]
Jane Marie
Right.
- [46:55]
Charlotte Palermino
You have your stratum corneum, then your dermis, and then the subcutaneous fat layer, those three layers. So there's like one layer that's like a little bit thicker. But I would say that your melanation actually has a much larger bearing on how. What kind of skin products that you're going to want to be using in the. The. The issues that you are going to want to be addressing. But there are. It's just. The thing is it's so variable by individual. And so do I think there needs to be a skincare line for just women and just men? Like, not really. It's really more about your concern so if you have dry, like dry skin, for example, you're going to be reaching for a product that has a lot of like oils in it to replenish that dryness. But if you have oily skin, you're going to be going for a lighter version of that. And so there doesn't. It's not like you're going to be formulating it to, to specifically penetrate men's skin.
- [47:46]
Jane Marie
Dan, what was your next question?
- [47:48]
Dan
Okay, so I have a couple more. Okay, the first one is, if you have oily skin, are there certain ingredients to look out for, to not use?
- [47:59]
Charlotte Palermino
Okay, so fun fact. The skin types were invented by Helena Rubenstein, who basically made like one of the first beauty brands. And so she is like a mother when it comes to beauty marketing. Yes. And so it's not actually based on dermatology, but the thing is, great marketing is to contextualize what you should be buying.
- [48:20]
Jane Marie
Okay.
- [48:21]
Charlotte Palermino
I have dry skin in New York and in parts of California. I do not have dry skin in Louisiana. I'm spending a lot of time there because my boyfriend's from New Orleans. My skin is very different.
- [48:32]
Jane Marie
It's the humidity.
- [48:32]
Charlotte Palermino
It's the humidity. You nailed it. And so what I like to say is more like, what's your wardrobe? Like, what are you gonna wear for clothing is much more like it's gonna help you kind of figure. But if you have genetically oily skin, and some people do, right. I go to New Orleans and my skin is fine. It's just normal for once. But if you have oily skin and you go to New Orleans, you are producing a lot of oil. Right. So what I would say is that, number one, think about the weather and the location on where you're going to be. That's going to, number one, determine what you're using. But if you have very oily skin, right. Where you're just like feel like you're constantly wiping at your face for that, I would say like you probably don't want to be using things like Vaseline. Right. You don't want to be using these heavy, thick products that trap the oil. Exactly. You're already producing enough. Why are you, you're naturally making that. You don't need store bought oils. You're naturally making them on your face. Good for you. Like, I wish I had oily skin because the investment in skin care would be less. But I would say that there are certain ingredients that you should be looking for. If you have really oily skin and you want to control it. Right. Like niacinamide is a great one. It helps with oil production. You can use certain exfolian.
- [49:41]
Unknown
And then.
- [49:41]
Charlotte Palermino
You can also use moisturizers that have like silicas in them to like mattify a little bit. So there's tons of things that you can look for. But the only thing I would really avoid are things that tend to what you. They call clog pores. But there's just like, no, no need to add oil when you have naturally such an abundance. Like, what a beautiful thing.
- [50:00]
Dan
Okay, so I just have one more question because you're. You're here and.
- [50:05]
Jane Marie
Oh, Dan is just using you right now.
- [50:08]
Charlotte Palermino
I know. I feel that. I feel that.
- [50:10]
Dan
I'm sorry.
- [50:11]
Charlotte Palermino
Tell me, Tell me everything. Is this a skin consult? Do I turn?
- [50:15]
Jane Marie
Yes.
- [50:15]
Charlotte Palermino
Do we turn the cameras on? Yeah.
- [50:17]
Jane Marie
No. Turn your time around. Turn your time around.
- [50:19]
Dan
I know I shouldn't be asking.
- [50:20]
Jane Marie
No, you should. Please, please.
- [50:21]
Charlotte Palermino
Now you have to. Yeah, I must know.
- [50:24]
Dan
Okay. Okay. So this is the Beauty of Joseon sunscreen is if you'd to like, like buy it on like Amazon or something.
- [50:36]
Charlotte Palermino
Nope, you don't buy anything on Amazon.
- [50:38]
Dan
That's the one that you don't like.
- [50:40]
Jane Marie
No, she does like that one.
- [50:41]
Dan
Okay.
- [50:42]
Charlotte Palermino
I do.
- [50:43]
Dan
But I mean, you said the Amer, their current American formulation is good.
- [50:49]
Charlotte Palermino
So the Modernization of Cosmetic Regulation act has made it so like that buying. If you buy an international sunscreen on Amazon, it's almost guaranteed that it is a fake. And so the way that, you know, Walmart duped the Birkin, we have so many companies that are duping Beauty of Joe sun and then selling it as the same thing. So I would be so careful, so, so careful buying any sunscreen that's international off of Amazon. But if you go to the Beauty of Joe sun verified store on Amazon, that's the American version. But I don't even think.
- [51:22]
Jane Marie
And it's not as good.
- [51:23]
Charlotte Palermino
Well, I don't even think you can buy it anymore because I think they're reformulating it because the reaction was not good to the sunscreen.
- [51:29]
Jane Marie
Okay, I can get it for you, Dan, but I can't talk about how.
- [51:33]
Charlotte Palermino
Yeah, we gotta keep our sources secure.
- [51:35]
Jane Marie
Yeah, I'll get it on the black market for you.
- [51:37]
Charlotte Palermino
Actually, Actually, Dan, do you wanna know where you can buy it? Online? That's better.
- [51:40]
Jane Marie
Sure.
- [51:40]
Charlotte Palermino
You can buy it from Yesstyle, you can buy it from Olive Young, and you can buy it from Stylevana. For now, those all ship into the US and did I buy my favorite sunscreen right now is Issanox because it's water resistant. But did I buy like, like 15 of these? Yes, they are sitting in my closet. I'm. I'm a stockpiler.
- [52:01]
Jane Marie
Not in the fridge.
- [52:02]
Charlotte Palermino
Doomsday prepper. No, not in the fridge. Doomsday prepper for sunscreen.
- [52:07]
Dan
Well, thank you so much for my beauty.
- [52:09]
Jane Marie
What else did you want to ask, Dan? Seriously? You have a.
- [52:11]
Charlotte Palermino
You could.
- [52:12]
Dan
No, that's pretty much it. I was looking at something else. I'm like, looking at skincare products while we're talking about this. Because I'm.
- [52:20]
Charlotte Palermino
I love it.
- [52:22]
Jane Marie
One of our first fights. One of our first fights regarding our kids. So our kids are a year apart. His daughter's a year older than mine. And one of our first fights was when you wanted to put sunscreen on them at 4:30pm as the sun was going down. Remember that?
- [52:37]
Dan
I do not.
- [52:38]
Jane Marie
We were going to the park. We were gonna go to the playground. And I was just like, oh, for sake. I was so annoyed that you were like, everybody gotta put your sunscreen on. And it was like nighttime.
- [52:48]
Charlotte Palermino
I love it.
- [52:49]
Dan
It's sunny.
- [52:50]
Charlotte Palermino
Listen, the uv. UV index that. There's an easy way to settle this. Just look at the UV index at 4:30. If it's above a 3, slap it on.
- [52:59]
Jane Marie
Whoa.
- [53:00]
Dan
Awesome.
- [53:00]
Jane Marie
Okay, now we know.
- [53:02]
Dan
Yeah, I do actually have one more like, like actual not. Not personal.
- [53:06]
Unknown
I love it.
- [53:07]
Dan
I love it, I love it. But kind of personal, because we could stand.
- [53:13]
Charlotte Palermino
You want me to look at a molecule? You want me to look at a mole of yours? The.
- [53:17]
Dan
Gosh. The. So my daughter's 13 and she's just starting to get into makeup and stuff. And I don't really wanna. I don't know. I don't want to be overbearing about what she does and doesn't do because I'm. I don't know. I just don't.
- [53:38]
Jane Marie
I'm not trying to shame her for.
- [53:40]
Dan
Doing something or whatever.
- [53:42]
Charlotte Palermino
So I can hear the discomfort in your voice and trying to articulate that.
- [53:45]
Dan
Well, it's hard because she has like, perfect skin.
- [53:48]
Jane Marie
And she was like, they are trying to fuck it up. Goldie's doing the same thing. I caught her with concealer under her eyes the other day and I'm like, you are a porcelain doll. Knock it off.
- [53:57]
Charlotte Palermino
Literally.
- [53:58]
Dan
So my. My only question around that is for. For adolescents or young, younger people, are there things in products? Is it the same, like, to look out for certain things and to look for other things, or is it different?
- [54:18]
Jane Marie
To add on to that question, Dan. So, yeah, having like a preteen daughter myself. You know, it's very popular to get hello Kitty sheet masks at the moment. And, you know, everyone's putting things in their stockings that are just like, I look at the ingredient list and I'm just like, what the fuck? Like, you do not need to be putting rubbing alcohol all over your perfect face. Are there things that, like, young, younger folks should just. That they're doing in excess that they could just avoid?
- [54:49]
Charlotte Palermino
I mean, honestly, it's like part of our philosophy as a brand is like, you don't need to look at our brand until you hit your 30s, because there's just so little that you should be doing at these ages. I don't think there's anything necessarily dangerous, like you can get a rash, which isn't great. But the thing is that your skin has fully formed by that age, right? There's a reason why with babies you need to be very careful about what you put on their skin, but it's just because their skin hasn't fully formed as a barrier yet, right? But by the time you're hitting puberty, you should have full oil production because oil actually protects your skin, right? So having oily skin is great on many fronts, but I would say it's like, should a preteen be using retinol? Not unless if a doctor is telling them to. A lot of these creams might have some exfoliating ingredients in there or like vitamin C or like, like, you know, retinol. And it's just like, that can actually sensitize their skin to the sun or.
- [55:44]
Jane Marie
That'S what I worry about.
- [55:44]
Charlotte Palermino
Sunscreen regularly I would really avoid. I mean, like, foundation is pretty. I mean, as speaking As a former 13 year old, we all were former 13 year olds. I was doing stuff. I was really into beauty when I was very young. And what's funny is that I would go to Claire's and buy Claire's stuff. And I don't know if you saw all the recalls we got from Claire's because of, of high, high amounts of lead contamination. And so I'm laughing because I'm like, my mom should have taken me to cvs, but instead she made me get like contraband from Claire's. And so I wouldn't say it's like, bad, but I also would be careful because now they're doing the skinification of makeup where they're like hiding all these active ingredients and like blush and you're like, fake, like, just make it simple. So I would say you should be okay, but I'm of the mindset of yours where I'm just like looking at these girls and I'm like, why are you doing a pore perfecting cream? You don't have pores.
- [56:40]
Jane Marie
Yeah.
- [56:41]
Charlotte Palermino
Are the pores. Are the pores in the room with us?
- [56:44]
Jane Marie
Dan, do we have any more follow up?
- [56:46]
Dan
I was just gonna say this is my favorite episode so far.
- [56:52]
Charlotte Palermino
Is it? Because it just turned into a console. Thank you so much, Dan.
- [56:56]
Dan
Thank you, Charlotte.
- [56:57]
Jane Marie
It the Dream is a production of Little Everywhere and you can find Charlotte's products@doskin.com that's d I e like die ux skin.com this is not sponsored. I just like her and want to make sure that you guys go buy stuff.
- [57:17]
Unknown
Okay.
- [57:18]
Jane Marie
See you next week. Foreign.
- [57:34]
Unknown
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