Super Secret Sauce!

Summary

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Podcast Summary: The Dream – "Super Secret Sauce!"

Podcast: The Dream
Host: Jane Marie (Little Everywhere)
Episode: Super Secret Sauce!
Date: January 24, 2026

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Episode Overview

In this episode, Jane Marie launches a new, more flexible format for The Dream while maintaining its core focus: how the myth of the "American Dream" is manipulated—and who profits off making it unattainable. The central discussion features “funnel hacking,” a contemporary predatory scheme that targets vulnerable individuals, especially in the multi-level marketing (MLM) world. Jane welcomes Brandi Hadfield, an ex-MLM insider turned anti-MLM advocate and therapist-in-training, for an in-depth account of her “undercover” experience in one such scheme.

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Key Discussion Points and Insights

1. Reimagining The Dream

• The show is back with a new, less rigid format—covering scammy American Dream stories on a weekly basis, but with freedom for broader discussion on “whatever we want” (01:06).
• Jane reflects on the challenge of covering issues like MLMs amid global crises, and the emotional fatigue of always focusing on “the big picture” doom (02:47, 03:29).

2. Introduction to Funnel Hacking

• Definition: Funnel hacking is essentially a set of manipulative marketing schemes, combining elements of MLMs and high-pressure coaching sales. Its essence: find a potential customer (“mark”), draw them into a funnel of ever-increasing financial commitments, and exploit their vulnerabilities.
  • "It's finding a mark, finding a customer, if you will, and leading them down a path where they just drip money out of their pockets more and more and more as time goes on.” — Jane Marie (01:28)
• Usually disguised as “free” coaching or masterclasses, but are themselves sales pitches for expensive, ongoing coaching programs (01:28–02:44).

3. Brandi Hadfield’s Story: From MLM Insider to Undercover Investigator

• Brandi is a student therapist in Toronto and worked in MLMs (Juice Plus) for 10 years before whistleblowing on her experience (07:37).
  • “I ended up getting to the top 1.6% of the company... But if you take away my expenses... I would say just over minimum wage.” — Brandi Hadfield (08:24)
• Her academic focus: how commercial cults (not just MLMs but also things like Landmark Forum) mirror dynamics of narcissistic abuse, particularly affecting neurodivergent populations (09:20).

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments with Timestamps

The Funnel “Masterclass” Experience

• Brandi describes being served a targeted Instagram ad—marketed as a “free trauma-informed masterclass” for struggling MLM reps, but really a high-pressure group sales call (10:53–12:30).
• “She starts off by saying that she’s trauma informed and that it’s your childhood trauma that’s keeping you stuck.” — Brandi Hadfield (12:30)
  • The host tries to get everyone to turn on their cameras to increase vulnerability, a classic manipulation tactic (13:18–14:48).
  • The “Hot 20” technique: Identify 20 promising recruits, “love bomb” and exploit their pain points to recruit them (14:48–15:28).
• Brandi describes the infamous “Ghostbuster” technique—using selfies with personalized post-it notes to guilt unresponsive leads into replying (16:23–17:10).
  • Jane: “And then I call the police.” (17:10)

Hostile Math & Dubious Promises

• The coach pitches a $97/month ongoing “coaching container” (with fake urgency about prices increasing) and uses bogus “cost of inaction” math:
  • “You not becoming part of this coaching container is literally costing you $60,000 a year.” — Brandi, paraphrasing the call leader (24:30)
  • “Wait, that's not the math on that. You're not missing out on 60,000. You're missing out on 48,000.” — Jane Marie (24:49)

Cult-like Structures and Emotional Manipulation

• The group offers “hot seat coaching”—publicly coaching one person to manipulate group dynamics, similar to controversial figures like Teal Swan or Bikram (26:10–26:45).
• All resources are digital only; even the workbook is just a file, not a printed copy (27:21–27:27).

Who Gets Targeted?

• The masterclass audience: mostly women aged 70+, many of whom have lost jobs or failed in MLM for years (35:41–35:56).
• “There were over 20 people that signed up... most of them were 70+ years of age.” — Brandi Hadfield (35:42, 35:56)

Psychological Toll and Testimonial Pressure

• Brandi: The structure isolates participants from their network and even from their own intuition—a common sign of cult-like abuse (41:08).
• The saleswoman leans heavily on “testimonials,” likely coerced during hot-seat sessions to avoid embarrassment (38:13–41:08).

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Segment Highlights & Timestamps

• [01:06]—[06:47]: Jane and co-host discuss funnel hacking and why it feels both trivial and important to cover scams while the world is burning.
• [07:37]—[10:53]: Brandi explains her MLM background and her research into the neurodivergent experience in “commercial cults.”
• [10:53]—[18:08]: Brandi details her experience infiltrating the funnel hacking masterclass: tactics, manipulation, and predatory techniques.
• [23:07]—[27:59]: More stories from the call—guilt manipulation, dubious math, false urgency, promises of “yachts and billionaires,” and hot-seat humiliation.
• [33:50]—[36:36]: Discussion of who is being targeted and how; older women, those who have suffered job loss or MLM failure, are especially vulnerable.
• [38:13]—[41:08]: Brandi unpacks the psychological harm, the difference between legitimate coaching and therapy, and the way testimonial pressure works.
• [41:17]—End: Jane wraps up with reminders about Brandi’s substack and why they chose not to name the sales coach.

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Thematic Takeaways

• Vulnerability Is the Entry Point: Scammers prey on financial and emotional vulnerability, especially in older demographics and MLM veterans.
• Cult Dynamics in Modern Marketing: Commercial “coaching” often deploys the same tactics as cults: emotional manipulation, isolation, testimonial coercion, and “us vs. them” mentality.
• False Urgency and Sham “Investments”: Urgency, sunk cost fallacy, and dubious calculations are deployed to keep people funneling in more money.
• Coaching vs. Therapy: The hosts stress the ethical difference between qualified therapy and dangerous pseudo-coaching that preys on trauma (38:13–41:08).

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Memorable Quotes

“It’s finding a mark... and leading them down a path where they just drip money out of their pockets more and more as time goes on.”
— Jane Marie (01:28)

“She starts off by saying that she’s trauma informed and that it’s your childhood trauma that’s keeping you stuck.”
— Brandi Hadfield (12:30)

“You not becoming part of this coaching container is literally costing you $60,000 a year.”
— Brandi Hadfield, quoting call leader (24:30)

“There were over 20 people that signed up... most of them were 70+ years of age.”
— Brandi Hadfield (35:56)

“One of the worst things that they do is they isolate you from yourself... That’s what is happening.”
— Brandi Hadfield (41:08)

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Conclusion

Super Secret Sauce! is a searing, funny, and sobering investigation into modern predator capitalism as it manifests in the “coaching” world. Through personal stories, undercover reporting, and thoughtful analysis, Jane Marie and Brandi Hadfield reveal how vulnerable people—especially women and the elderly—are targeted by schemes that weaponize personal trauma and hope for social mobility, all while reinforcing the dark side of “the American Dream.”

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For more on Brandi’s work: [brandihadfield.substack.com](https://brandi hadfield.substack.com)

Next Episode Teaser: Tune in next week for more stories from the ever-changing landscape of the American Dream—and its discontents.

Transcript

[Capital One Bank Guy]

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[BetterHelp Ad Narrator]

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[Capital One Bank Guy]

Did I talk too much? Can't I just let it go?

[BetterHelp Ad Narrator]

Take a breath. You're not alone.

[Jane Marie]

Let's talk about what's going on.

[BetterHelp Ad Narrator]

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[Jane Marie]

I'm Jane Marie, and this is the Dream. Today's episode we're going to hear about funnel hacking. Do you know what that is?

[Co-host or Guest Commentator]

No, you don't, Do I. I mean, is it what I guess. Tell me. Just tell me what it is.

[Capital One Bank Guy]

Okay.

[Co-host or Guest Commentator]

It sounds. It sounds a lot like a bunch of other shitty things.

[Jane Marie]

Yeah, it's. And it is. A bunch of other shitty things put together, and then the name got slapped on it. But basically what it is is it's finding a mark, finding a customer, if you will, and leading them down a path where they just drip money out of their pockets more and more and more as time goes on. And you just keep pointing them in the direction of places where they can lose money, essentially, or spend money. Spend. I say lose. You know, same dev.

[Co-host or Guest Commentator]

Sure, some people might say invest. I don't.

[Jane Marie]

That's what they do say. But it's a marketing system. So you basically say, well, what happened to my friend Brandy Hadfield who's coming back on the show to talk about this, is she got served an ad on Facebook that's like, come get a free coaching lesson for how to revitalize your MLM business. And she is now anti mlm, but it came up on her Facebook feed and she was like, it's free. I guess I'll go eavesdrop. And she did. And it wasn't a free lesson on how to fix your mlm. It was an advertisement for a monthly coaching service, which I'm sure once you.

[Co-host or Guest Commentator]

Get in that deep, it's like Scientology.

[Jane Marie]

You can spend even more money.

[Capital One Bank Guy]

Right.

[Co-host or Guest Commentator]

The deeper you Go. The more expensive it becomes.

[Jane Marie]

So she went and signed up for this initial phone call, came in and talked to me. And it's infuriating, but it got me thinking about capitalism and the state of the world. And also, you know, things are shit is fucked up and bullshit right now. And I feel weird hosting this show this week in particular when we're, you know, fighting with Homeland Security and quote, unquote security and trying to annex Greenland. It feels really kind of weird to spend a half an hour laughing at this one lady who runs a funnel hacking scheme. At the same time.

[Co-host or Guest Commentator]

At the same time, it's actually affecting people. I would say that sometimes we fall into this thing where we're having conversations like this, or we're looking at topics like this, and this could go back to MLMs and all the damage that they do compared to everything that's actually happening in the world. It feels like these are all almost quaint problems, which are problems that we've concentrated on and cared about deeply for a long time and do affect people's lives, but comparatively.

[Jane Marie]

Yeah. And what's convenient about them from a reporting standpoint is I can tell you I'm on a call where someone is saying they are unemployed, they are 75 years old, they're failing at their MLM. And then this woman says to them, you should be investing $1,200 a year in me. $100 a month, and it's normally 400. Right now you're gonna get it for 97. Which is something she says on every call.

[Co-host or Guest Commentator]

It's a good deal.

[Jane Marie]

She also does this, like, shitty masking. Anyways, you'll hear about it in the interview, but it's a specific story about someone, just a shark, totally taking advantage of people at their lowest. When you look at the government, it's too big. When you look at what our executive branch is doing, what Congress is doing, what the Supreme Court is doing, and just the money hungriness, the wealth above all else attitude of our current capitalist regime. That's harder to. It's hard to tell the story. Like, what am I supposed to say? Am I supposed to. Part of me wants to come on here and be like, okay, here's everything that's wrong with capitalism.

[Co-host or Guest Commentator]

Well, that's the thing.

[Jane Marie]

I'm the least informed person you've ever heard talk about this, even though it's all I think about, so I'm gonna get half of it wrong. I'm gonna sound like a bumbling idiot. Cause I'm not a scholar. I also have nothing to do with politics, really, outside of reporting, which isn't part of politics anymore because the government has kicked us out. But what am I supposed to say? Having a show about the American dream and not just wanting to rip my hair out at the beginning of every episode and go, what are we doing? What happened? What happened here?

[Co-host or Guest Commentator]

The conversation that we're having right now. If you try and look at the big picture and what's happening in the world and all of that, we end up feeling stupid because it's all very obvious.

[Jane Marie]

It's fun to watch. Scammers is the thing. It's fun to make fun of Gwyneth Paltrow about her shoving a totally marble egg upper.

[Capital One Bank Guy]

Hoo. Ha.

[Jane Marie]

Or whatever. Not that fun. Maybe that's the wrong word. But it's ridiculous. And I like ridiculous things. And what you're about to hear from this lady, it's entertaining and it's sad and it's affecting. It is affecting thousands of people. I will say that because there were hundreds on the call that I was on. It was really. She's casting a very wide net and talking to thousands of people every week and trying to convince them to part with tons and tons and tons of money. So it does affect a number of people, but in the grand scheme of things, it feels trite. And I just wanna say that out loud. And somebody's gonna say, I'm cringe for opening the show like this. I'd never say that to you. They'll only say it to me.

[Co-host or Guest Commentator]

Well, everything's cringe. So let's just start there. Let's just level the playing field here. Everything in the world is cringe right now. So here we go. It is important that you talk about it, even after the con that we just had. And I'm exhausted from it in some ways, because it's hard to have. No, it's not your fault. I love it in a way because it's cathartic and we need to be able to talk, but it's also exhausting because it leads you down a path of pure cynicism. So shining a light on stuff like this is both absurd. You can actually focus on something smaller and go, look how absurd this is. And it's affecting people's lives.

[Jane Marie]

And it's. It is an allegory.

[Co-host or Guest Commentator]

Yes.

[Jane Marie]

Imagine that this woman is Donald Trump.

[Capital One Bank Guy]

Okay.

[Brandi Hadfield]

I'm Brandi Hadfield. I'm a student therapist in supervision in Toronto, and I worked for an MLM for 10 years before getting out, going back to school, and whistleblowing on the whole experience.

[Jane Marie]

And what did you sell?

[Brandi Hadfield]

Juice plus encapsulated plant powders. And it was the idea of getting more Whole Foods into busy families. That was the mission.

[Jane Marie]

And by Whole Foods, they mean the.

[Brandi Hadfield]

Pills that they mean ultra processed powders derived from plants.

[Capital One Bank Guy]

Yeah.

[Jane Marie]

Wow. Okay, I'm gonna have to look into that. How did that go for you?

[Brandi Hadfield]

So I ended up getting to the top 1.6% of the company, which does not mean that I was speaking on any stages or anything like that, because we all know that you have to be like the top one or, you know, 0.5% to get that kind of income and recognition. But I worked very hard and towards the end I was making an income. But I also. Your expenses increase because then there's more pressure. Like, there was already pressure to attend every conference, go to every event that I possibly could. Plus, you have your samples, your whole family's taking it, you're sold on, everybody needs it. So it just. The expenses go up and up and up. So if you take away my expenses from what I was earning at the end, I don't know, I would say just over minimum wage. And something I should have mentioned is that my. I'm in my final year of school and my concentration research project is all about how mlm. I'm not even just going to say mlm. I'm going to say commercial cult, because there's, you know, MLMs like NXIVM who people just think is a personal development program, or Landmark Forum. So commercial cult dynamics mirror the dynamics in narcissistic abuse. And specifically, I'm really interested in researching the impact on neurodivergent populations. Being neurodivergent myself, I was always made fun of for taking people at their word or people saying, like, you know, make somebody making a joke and being like, oh, my God, how do you. How did you believe me? And it's just something that when somebody I think more literally and I. And I don't feel like we should be ashamed of, like, oh, that means you're gullible or whatever. If somebody's looking at me in the eye and saying, you know, if you do this, then this will happen, I'm going to be like, okay, so I'm interested in the experience of someone who maybe has more already more literal thinking, who already has a hard time with transition, et cetera, how that impacts their length of time in the commercial cult and how that impacts the harm that's inflicted upon them.

[Jane Marie]

Okay, let's talk about what you did last week. You were up to some shenanigans last week.

[Brandi Hadfield]

Okay, so I was on Instagram and I was actually funny enough looking at the stories in a little bit culty. I was like looking in their story and at when their story ended up. Pops this woman with these Mickey Mouse ears. And it was like, join my free masterclass. You know, now the industry of network marketing isn't broken, it's just your systems need a refresh because times have changed, blah, blah, blah. And I'm like. And it was specifically geared towards Arbonne. And I will, I will tell you that since then I've seen sponsored posts aimed at many different MLMs. So she's doing these targeted ads. Somehow I ended up in that basket of who's targeted for this ad. But when I got this targeted ad, something snapped in me. I thought, okay, I'm going to sign up. So I signed up. It really something also about certain neurodivergence is the justice sensitivity and the. And the hyper focus. So that kind of was working for me there.

[Jane Marie]

What was it advertised?

[Brandi Hadfield]

It advertised as a masterclass for those who are stuck in their network marketing business, Specifically in Arbonne. Well, no, no, actually, the same ad is being sent to all different MLMs, recruiting them into the same masterclass. So it's not actually specific to Arbonne at all.

[Jane Marie]

How long is it supposed to be? That sounds like a commitment.

[Brandi Hadfield]

It's a half hour. Well, she says it's a half an.

[Jane Marie]

Hour, one half hour masterclass, but it.

[Brandi Hadfield]

Ended up going on for an hour and a half and I couldn't take notes fast enough. She starts off by saying that she's trauma informed and that it's your childhood trauma that's keeping you stuck. That's how she like opens it, by just going for the childhood trauma right off the hop.

[Jane Marie]

Okay.

[Brandi Hadfield]

She's white, blonde, 40 plus, beautiful backdrop, office. It's on Zoom. There's over 200 people on the call. Yeah, really?

[Jane Marie]

Oh, I was not expecting that. Okay. And she kind of looks like a Mormon housewife, right? But like the hot kind that goes on.

[Brandi Hadfield]

She kept saying, turn your cameras on. Where are the leaders? Where are the leaders? I need you to turn your cameras on. She kept trying to get everybody to turn their camera on. And this was funny because there was me, who's me today? And then there was me imagining, like, knowing how I would have felt in that Zoom room eight years ago and I would have turned my camera on and I wouldn't have realized.

[Capital One Bank Guy]

Really?

[Brandi Hadfield]

Yeah, 100% I would have turned my camera on and I would not have known or realized that that would have made me more vulnerable to what was going to be happening next. And there's. So there's a reason why she wants everybody to turn their camera on, because then they're going to be a little bit more vulnerable because she's going to sell them on a coaching container that is $97 US per month and it's going to change your life. Quote, So you're going to make your Hot20 list, and then you're going to put a little star beside the three people on your list that you're most excited about, that you know, if they joined, it would explode your business, and then you're going to love bomb them. Well, she doesn't say that. She said to like and comment on all their posts, figure out their pain point and exploit it. Well, she didn't use the word exploit.

[Jane Marie]

Wait, did she say the word pain point, though?

[Brandi Hadfield]

Yes. Yes. So you're gonna notice that Sally has five kids. So even though she looks, she's showing up perfect on social media, you know that can't be true. She's gotta be tired. So you're gonna, you're gonna message her and say, sally, like, you look so great. You have five kids. I don't know. Like, I don't know. Are you tired at all? Because I know this mom of four. And you're gonna share a testimonial. You're gonna share like a success story from someone who's in a similar situation to them and then say, I don't know. Does that resonate with you?

[Jane Marie]

Oh, so you're supposed to, in normal conversation with someone, you're supposed to figure out what's traumatizing them at the moment, think of someone else that you know, or make someone up that you know that's going through the similar situation. And then you're supposed to tell that new friend about that other person. So you're supposed to gossip immediately and then ask them if they identify with.

[Brandi Hadfield]

You in the lore of your company. So it doesn't have to be your customer. It could be somebody else's customer who happens to have a lot of kids and is quote, unquote, thriving because of the amazing products. And so you're just sending, like, does this hit home? And then if they say yes, then you say, do you want to know what she did? And if they say yes, then you send them about your product. Now people will ghost you. So this is the other big tip.

[GAB Ad Narrator]

Okay?

[Brandi Hadfield]

Are you tired of Messaging people and having, like, all these people ghosting you. You've got like 17 people in your inbox that just haven't respond.

[Jane Marie]

I'm tired of it just thinking about it. Yeah. Huh. What do I do?

[Brandi Hadfield]

Well, this is what we call the Ghostbuster post it note. Go on Amazon and just buy, like, really fun post it notes.

[Jane Marie]

This seems really cool already.

[Brandi Hadfield]

Like, this is gonna change your business, change your life. So you write, if I'm trying to prospect you, Jane, I would write, jane, should I quit trying? I write that on the post it note. Jane, should I quit trying? And then I take a really cute selfie of myself smiling with a post it by my face, and I send you that selfie.

[Jane Marie]

And then I call the police.

[Brandi Hadfield]

Somebody said, like, if, like, a man did that, that would be so scary.

[Jane Marie]

It's like a proof of life picture. Like when people have hostages and they're like, hold up the newspaper. Is that what it's supposed to be doing?

[Brandi Hadfield]

It's supposed to be cute.

[Jane Marie]

But you hand wrote their name, like, being like, I'm still alive on you. That's called ghost busting. Does it work? Did she happen to have any success stories?

[Brandi Hadfield]

She said the whole point is to get people to a yes or a no, to get them out of that middle row where they're, you know. Because if they haven't told you no, then they're still. Still a chance, and they just haven't made up their mind yet. And you want to get them to a for sure yes or a for sure no. So that's supposed to accomplish that?

[Jane Marie]

There's no universe in which these people just want you to leave them alone or she just doesn't care.

[Brandi Hadfield]

I guess if they really did, they would tell you, leave me alone.

[Jane Marie]

Which is a skill like nobody has. Okay, so you learn about ghostbusting, you learn about the Hot 20. Any other cool names for dumb things that are just recycled and also really creepy?

[Brandi Hadfield]

No, that was pretty much it. She spent the rest of the time sharing testimonials and saying things like here's and I quote, I found myself on this yacht on this crystal blue water, looking around. Oh, yeah. And I'm with billionaires, and I look around and I say, this is what network marketing does for women.

[Jane Marie]

We'll be right back with some more testimonials in a minute. If you don't want to hear these ads, go to thedream.supercast.com.

[Co-host or Guest Commentator]

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[GAB Ad Narrator]

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[Jane Marie]

Or crazy.

[Capital One Bank Guy]

Believable.

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[Capital One Bank Guy]

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[Jane Marie]

And we're back with Brandi Hadfield, who spied on a network marketing coaching call she found via an Instagram ad.

[Brandi Hadfield]

So she told the story about Sally, who she was sure was going to explode her business. And three months later, Sally said, it.

[Jane Marie]

Just, I'm a loser.

[Brandi Hadfield]

It doesn't align with me anymore. And she like, put on this voice of like, it doesn't align with me anymore.

[Jane Marie]

Sally. That's such a Sally thing to say. Wait, what was the point of that?

[Brandi Hadfield]

Well, if Sally hadn't have, like, gotten out of the way, she wouldn't have found Amy. And Amy, after joining her downline, healed her thyroid and paid off $30,000 in debt.

[Jane Marie]

How did MLM Thyroid? Wait, what is she talking about? Did she elaborate at all? No, that was it.

[Brandi Hadfield]

It was just like she was just like, blast out these, like, insane stories like this throughout. And the idea, in my opinion, is that she's trying to get, you know, blast out these stories like throwing spaghetti at a wall. Somebody in the audience is going to relate. Somebody in the audience is going to have a thyroid issue. Somebody in the audience has $30,000 in debt. So. And then she says, what is the cost of you not figuring out your niche? This is some fun Math. Can I share this with you?

[Jane Marie]

Please share everything with me. This is fascinating. And also, I want to get rich, so.

[Brandi Hadfield]

Yes. So let's say you're making a thousand dollars a month. Okay. And you want to make 5,000.

[Jane Marie]

Yes, I do.

[Brandi Hadfield]

You not becoming part of this coaching container is literally costing you $60,000 a year.

[Jane Marie]

Why? How? Oh, right, because I could be making five instead of one. Wait, that's not the math on that. You're not missing out on 60,000. You're missing out on 48,000. But anyways, she doesn't. She's not happy.

[Brandi Hadfield]

How does this work out? She went up to. If you. You want. Let's say you want to make $100,000 a month. It's costing you $1.2 million a year and your credibility.

[Jane Marie]

How many months do you have to sign up for?

[Brandi Hadfield]

There's no. You can cancel at any time.

[Jane Marie]

Yeah, right. Okay.

[Brandi Hadfield]

There's no refunds though, so.

[Jane Marie]

Oh, and is there. But is there an end date?

[Capital One Bank Guy]

No.

[Jane Marie]

Or is she just forever?

[Brandi Hadfield]

Oh, she said you're gonna get to your next rank and then guess what? New problems.

[Jane Marie]

More money, more problems. And boy, didn't that happen for that guy. Did you preview at all what you would be learning beside the tactics that she's currently trying to use on you in this call?

[Brandi Hadfield]

You would be. You would just. You would have access to these three meetings a week that are just like.

[Jane Marie]

The one you're already in right now.

[Brandi Hadfield]

No. So in the live calls, people are getting coached, but it's like the hot seat coaching where one person is getting coached in front of everybody else. So that's a really interesting dynamic.

[Jane Marie]

I didn't know that had a name, but isn't that's like the one that the Bikram yoga guy did, right? Or Teal.

[Brandi Hadfield]

Yeah. Teal Swan.

[Jane Marie]

Teal Swan does it where she brings someone up on stage and you sit across from her and she makes you cry.

[Brandi Hadfield]

Oh, my gosh. That.

[Jane Marie]

That's what it is. That's what you're talking about, the hot seat thing. Is it just once a week that you get to watch this torture? Or is it. Do you get. How many times?

[Brandi Hadfield]

Three times a week. And if you can't attend live, it's all recorded and put in their private podcast.

[Jane Marie]

But also, you're a fucking loser who's never going to have success.

[Brandi Hadfield]

Leaders show up, but you have to also be a follower. The other thing that you get as part of the coaching program is you get her workbooks. This is funny. Do you think that for $100 a month, you. You would think you would get them in the mail, right?

[Jane Marie]

Yeah.

[Brandi Hadfield]

You get the digital files that you gotta go print spiral bound for yourself.

[Jane Marie]

No.

[Brandi Hadfield]

Yeah. She doesn't even send you the free. She doesn't even pay for the shipping to send you the workbook. She also would not have said that unless someone asked, can I get it digital? Because you would just assume the way she showed, the way she held it up, her hard copy that was spiral bound. You would think, oh, I get that. Because she's saying, you get my workbook. And showing you a physical workbook which are printed in a very large font for us, 40 +. Which.

[Jane Marie]

She didn't say that.

[Brandi Hadfield]

Yeah, she did.

[Capital One Bank Guy]

No.

[Brandi Hadfield]

And. And this is the other part of my own. Like, I really, like I said, take people at their word. I assume the best intentions in people. It's really easy for me to see good in other people. Which were all things that were weaponized when I was in an mlm, because it was. I was always excited about people. Like, I look at someone and I'm like, oh, my gosh. Like, I see these different skills and assets that people have. So it's really. It. Like, everything is looking like this person's a monster to me. But then there's always this little voice that's like, well, you know, maybe like, okay, Ruby, Frankie, for example. Like, was she in reality. Was she.

[Capital One Bank Guy]

Did she.

[Brandi Hadfield]

You know.

[Jane Marie]

Well, you know, I looked into a lot of this when I was writing the book Selling the Dream. And I really came out of that convinced, well, of a couple of things. One, I do think that they're different from us. Morally different, I think. Cause I couldn't find one character from that world who started an mlm. These were all people, like, way high up. Like, people who want to do business this way and became famous. Like, the people who run Amway and all of them.

[Brandi Hadfield]

Right.

[Jane Marie]

And to a person, each of them have a very different moral compass than I think most people. They also have a God that we don't worship in the same way, which is money and the greed. I feel like it's, like, why it's one of the seven deadly sins. Because they see money as, like, proof of their goodness.

[Brandi Hadfield]

Mm. Yeah.

[Jane Marie]

And the accolades and the adoration and stuff as proof of goodness. And they mean proof. Like, I don't think they mean, like, it makes me feel like I'm worthwhile, but more like it's evidence that I am worthwhile. Otherwise, why would I have all of this stuff if I was doing anything wrong. But I don't know how people get made that way.

[Brandi Hadfield]

Yeah, like. Well, when you look at, like, how is a sociopath made or how is a malignant narcissist made? Some people would say there is severe neglect in infancy, for example.

[Jane Marie]

Okay.

[Brandi Hadfield]

So you learn to get. You learn to figure out how to get your needs met in a way, in a different way than somebody who grew up with a more secure attachment. To answer like, do I think that she's buying her own bullshit? I think that if you can look at person after person after person after person, not achieve success and still blame them and not you, then there is something that's not.

[Jane Marie]

Something's wrong with you.

[Brandi Hadfield]

Yeah.

[Jane Marie]

Back after the break.

[Capital One Bank Guy]

With no fees or minimums on checking accounts, it's no wonder the Capital One bank guy is so passionate about banking with Capital One. If he were here, he wouldn't just tell you about no fees or minimums. He'd also talk about how most Capital One cafes are open seven days a week to assist with your banking needs. Yep, even on weekends, it's pretty much all he talks about. In a good way. What's in your wallet? Terms apply. See capitalone.com bank capital1na Member, FDIC.

[BetterHelp Ad Narrator]

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[Raj]

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[Mat from P1]

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[Jane Marie]

So talk me through who else was there and what their. What the other reactions were. Were people seeming like, excited about this.

[Brandi Hadfield]

Yeah, people were like, I. I got it, because I love your energy. And I'm really having a hard time recruiting people who are action takers onto my team. So I'm hoping I can learn from you. That woman was also an older lady. Somebody bought it for their mom.

[Jane Marie]

Oh.

[Brandi Hadfield]

So I'm assuming their mom is probably in their downline.

[Jane Marie]

That's not passive aggressive at all.

[Brandi Hadfield]

She said, it's a business write off. So get that card that you never gave yourself permission to use, because this is a business write off.

[GAB Ad Narrator]

Okay.

[Jane Marie]

Get the credit card out to pay this, because you can write it off on your taxes at the end of the year.

[Brandi Hadfield]

People were saying, I've been doing different MLMs for 12 years, for 20 years, for, you know, and. And then. And so this is. One person said they were only making $50 a month. And this is her hail Mary. And she was like, you're so smart. She said, you know, those of you who are. Who are afraid, the reason why you're afraid is because you've. You've been struggling and you've been failing and you're afraid to fail again. But the difference now, you didn't have me before. You didn't have someone telling you exactly what you're doing wrong. Somebody said that they've already spent so much money. And she said, consider this your insurance policy, that what you've already invested wasn't wasted.

[Jane Marie]

Oh, sunk cost fallacy.

[Capital One Bank Guy]

Yep.

[Brandi Hadfield]

She would say, you know, the whole. All the thought terminating cliches. Action takers are money makers. Nothing changes if nothing changes.

[Jane Marie]

How many notes did you.

[Brandi Hadfield]

I know. Okay. There were over 20 people that signed up. And from what I could quickly scribble down, it seemed most of them were 70 plus.

[Jane Marie]

Wow.

[Brandi Hadfield]

Years of age. Oh, no. One woman was around my age. That was a woman who had lost her job that day.

[Jane Marie]

Um, and so she made $2,000 that month off of this call.

[Brandi Hadfield]

Right. And. And she says she has over a thousand people, like 1100 people in her container already in her community. So that's over $100,000 a month if. And then she said that the price was going to go up to $400 two minutes after the call was going to end. So they had to do it now. So that's false urgency. Somebody asked, what do you say when people. When somebody says your MLM is a scam? Jane, do you want to guess what her advice was?

[Jane Marie]

Scams are illegal.

[Brandi Hadfield]

That's right. It's just like Walmart or Amazon. But we are paid as the marketing staff. Paid as the marketing. What if you're not paid though? So this whole thing was an hour and a half. So we're. It was supposed to be a 30 minute call. Then she like part of the closing, like part of her like closing the sale was putting people through a visualization. So the visualization was close your eyes. Now imagine that you're getting more responses in your inbox and you're coming home. Or maybe you've been home all day because you're a homeschooling mama, but you don't feel burdened anymore because my systems have lifted the load and you can enjoy family time together peacefully. And your kiddo brushes his teeth. Just kidding. I'm not a magic maker. I can't make your kiddo brushes teeth.

[Jane Marie]

She did not say she did.

[Brandi Hadfield]

I'm not a magic maker, but I can help you with your network marketing business.

[Jane Marie]

Were people closing their eyes?

[Brandi Hadfield]

Yeah, they were. One thing, if it's okay, because I don't. I want to. There are people that do coaching and are legitimate people. Can I mention that quickly?

[Capital One Bank Guy]

Sure.

[Brandi Hadfield]

Like, yeah. I had a, for example, a situation with one of my kids and I needed a parent coach. I didn't need to go to therapy about it. I just needed to know exactly what to do. And I paid for a session and she told me what to do. And it really helped me. I think that, you know, people just need to know that there is a difference between coaching and therapy. And if coaches are using that kind of therapeutic language and talking about childhood trauma or saying that they're trauma informed, if they're trauma informed, she would know not to victim blame or not to re traumatize people when she's coaching them. But I don't believe, I believe that this experience is re traumatizing and it is victim blaming. Even though she said it's not your fault, you just didn't have me. That is, that's co. That's coercive. That's setting people up to like not trust themselves but to look to her to tell them, you know, When I was on last time, we talked about how I started with coaching and I was. And that was how I ended up in the MLM funnel and when I was working with families, like, there was this moment where I saw a limit to my scope. And that's why I decided I would become a therapist. Because there is a difference between helping people set up something specific and then like helping them unpack their childhood using all this language, this, this therapy jargon, and specifically marketing vulnerable populations is without any of the scientific backing, without any, you know, leaning heavily on testimonials, which I feel that people end up being coerced to create. These testimonials is another whole piece of it. Like, if you're in the middle of this hot seat coaching and you're doing the things and you don't want to be embarrassed, you might really reach for success that you've experienced so that you don't look stupid in front of all these people. Something that somebody has said that really stood out for me, somebody coming out of a different type of cult said one of the worst things that they do is they isolate you from yourself. And that really hit home because that's what is happening. You're being not not only isolated from the supportive network in your real actual life because those are dream stealers and haters, but you're actually being isolated from, from your own intuition. That's how you end up in situations like, you know, in the sweat lodge where that James Arthur Ray where the people didn't. They thought that their intuition was their limitations and it led to devastating consequences.

[Jane Marie]

The dream is a production of little everywhere. You can find more of Brandi's thoughts about all this on her subscribers. It's Brandy hadfield.substack.com B R A N D I E H A D F I E l D brandy hadfield.substack.com also notice we didn't use this woman's name. I reached out via email, text message, etc. Crickets. I tried. See you next week.

[Capital One Bank Guy]

With no fees or minimums on checking accounts, it's no wonder the Capital One bank guy is so passionate about banking with Capital One. If he were here, he wouldn't just tell you about no fees or minimums. He'd also talk about how most Capital One cafes are open seven days a week to assist with your banking needs. Yep, even on weekends, it's pretty much all he talks about in a good way. What's in your wallet? Terms apply. See capitalone.com bank capital1na member FDIC.

[Raj]

Hey, it's Raj and Noah. And we're back with a new season of Am I Doing It Wrong? The show that explores the all too human anxieties we have about trying to get our lives right.

[Noah]

Because we're still doing a lot of stuff wrong.

[Raj]

But who isn't? That's why each week we're talking about the topics that we could all use a little helping hit with. Whether it's making new friends as an adult, managing our emotions, or even dreaming.

[Noah]

We'll be talking to experts in their fields who are doing, definitely doing things right, so the rest of us can be a bit wiser and a lot better equipped to handle whatever life throws at us.

[Raj]

Subscribe now and listen to new episodes of Am I Doing It Wrong? Dropping every Thursday starting January 1st, wherever you get your podcasts.

[Noah]

And for the first time ever, we're going to have full video episodes on YouTube. Because as long as there are things to get wrong, we're going to be right here to help you do them better.

[Capital One Bank Guy]

Love y'. All.

[Noah]

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[Brandi Hadfield]

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[Capital One Bank Guy]

Can I make my site firmer? Can we sleep cooler?

[Noah]

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[Capital One Bank Guy]

Today. Sam.