Take A Few Steps Just To Make The Devil Mad

Summary

Podcast Summary: "Take A Few Steps Just To Make The Devil Mad"

Podcast Information:

• Title: The Dream
• Host/Author: Little Everywhere
• Episode: Take A Few Steps Just To Make The Devil Mad
• Release Date: May 9, 2025

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1. Introduction to Mentalism and Magic

In this episode, hosts Dustin Dean and Jane Marie delve deep into the world of mentalism, magic, and the blurred lines between entertainment and deception. They explore the techniques used by mentalists and magicians, compare them to the practices of psychics, and discuss the ethical considerations surrounding these performances.

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2. Personal Background of Dustin Dean

Dustin shares his journey into the realm of magic and mentalism, highlighting how early experiences and personal interests shaped his career.

• Dustin Dean ([07:55] – [10:57]):
  “I was born and raised in Syracuse, New York. When I was about six years old, I got a magic set from my mom for my birthday. I loved performing these simple tricks, and it sparked my passion for entertaining. Throughout high school, I was involved in a punk rock band and even attended pro wrestling school.”

Dustin credits influential figures like David Blaine and mentalists such as Derren Brown for reigniting his love for magic and directing him towards mentalism.

• Dustin Dean ([09:24] – [10:57]):
  “Watching David Blaine's street magic special made me fall back in love with magic. I started learning card tricks and sleight of hand, and eventually, I was drawn to the psychology behind magic, leading me to mentalists like Derren Brown.”

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3. The History and Ethics of Mentalism

The conversation shifts to the historical context of mentalism and its ethical implications, particularly regarding the debunking of psychics.

• Dustin Dean ([11:06] – [12:08]):
  “Houdini was very adamant about debunking psychics. He would put on public shows aimed at exposing their tricks, even challenging them to prove their abilities. This legacy continues as many mentalists today are open about their deceptive techniques, unlike some psychics who claim genuine supernatural powers.”

Dustin emphasizes the importance of transparency in mentalism, contrasting it with the often misleading nature of psychic performances.

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4. Exposing Psychics and Their Methods

Dustin and Jane Marie critically analyze the methods used by modern psychics, illustrating how they often rely on psychological tricks and deceptive practices rather than genuine abilities.

• Dustin Dean ([16:17] – [21:04]):
  “Peter Popoff was exposed for using a wireless earpiece to receive information about audience members, which was relayed by his wife. Similarly, Tyler Henry uses pre-collected information from social media and QR code sign-ups to perform his readings, blending cold and hot reading techniques.”

They discuss infamous cases like Peter Popoff and contemporary figures like Tyler Henry and Theresa Caputo (Long Island Medium), demonstrating how these psychics manipulate information to create the illusion of supernatural insight.

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5. Modern Psychics and Their Techniques

The hosts delve into specific techniques such as cold reading, hot reading, and automatic writing, explaining how these are employed by psychics to deceive audiences.

• Dustin Dean ([24:17] – [27:18]):
  “Cold reading involves making vague, general statements that can apply to many people, while hot reading uses specific information obtained beforehand. For example, Tyler Henry uses automatic writing, an old technique where he appears to receive messages from spirits, but it's actually a method to reveal pre-gathered information.”

Jane Marie adds real-life experiences to illustrate the deception:

• Jane Marie ([32:29] – [33:10]):
  “I attended a Copperfield show and realized the magician was getting information from under the stage. When I pointed it out, I received a refund, which isn’t an isolated incident but a common occurrence among audience members who catch on to the tricks.”

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6. The Moral Responsibility of Mentalists

Dustin discusses the ethical dilemmas faced by mentalists who, like him, choose to be transparent about their methods to avoid misleading their audiences.

• Dustin Dean ([33:23] – [41:13]):
  “I find it morally troubling to deceive people, even for entertainment. While I perform mind tricks and illusions, I make it a point to inform my audience that there's no supernatural gift involved. I want them to appreciate the skill and effort behind the performance without believing in false abilities.”

He highlights the conflict within the community, where some mentalists believe in maintaining secrecy, while others, like himself, advocate for honesty to prevent the spread of misinformation.

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7. Audience Interaction and Demonstrations

To engage listeners, Dustin demonstrates a simple magic trick involving a popsicle stick, emphasizing its effectiveness and the ease with which anyone can learn such skills.

• Dustin Dean ([42:44] – [44:51]):
  “Take a popsicle stick and bend it halfway so that one side splits while the other remains intact. Hold it between your thumb and first finger, then use your ring finger to snap it upwards, creating the illusion that you're controlling it with your mind. This simple trick showcases how mentalism can appear magical without any real supernatural involvement.”

Jane Marie encourages the audience to try it themselves, reinforcing the notion that these skills are attainable with practice.

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8. Conclusion and Takeaways

The episode concludes with reflections on the broader implications of deception in entertainment and politics, drawing parallels between deceptive practices in magic and misinformation in leadership.

• Jane Marie ([33:55] – [34:18]):
  “Our current political environment, where leaders frequently lie and manipulate, mirrors the deceptive techniques used by psychics. It’s alarming to see such large-scale deception reminiscent of historical figures like Rasputin.”

Dustin echoes these concerns, emphasizing the dangers of widespread misinformation and the importance of integrity both in entertainment and societal leadership.

• Dustin Dean ([34:14] – [35:15]):
  “Exposing deceit in magic translates to recognizing similar patterns in politics. The scale of manipulation today is frightening, and it underscores the necessity for honesty and transparency.”

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Notable Quotes:

• Dustin Dean ([07:55]):
  “I fell in love with performing and started doing all sorts of crazy things.”

• Jane Marie ([04:07]):
  “I just love being delighted, even when deep in my heart I understand it's all a big joke.”

• Dustin Dean ([41:13]):
  “If magic was real, if people could have supernatural powers, life would be a lot more interesting and fun.”

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Conclusion

"Take A Few Steps Just To Make The Devil Mad" provides a thorough exploration of mentalism, the ethics of deception in entertainment, and the parallels between magic tricks and societal misinformation. Through engaging dialogue and personal anecdotes, Dustin Dean and Jane Marie offer listeners insightful perspectives on recognizing and understanding the techniques behind seemingly supernatural performances.

Transcript

[Dustin Dean]

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[Jane Marie]

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[Dustin Dean]

Say you've sent out a gigantic shipment of pillows and they need to be.

[Jane Marie]

There in time for International Sleep day. You've got AT and T5G so you're fully confident, but the vendor isn't responding. And International Sleep Day is tomorrow. Luckily, AT&T 5G lets you deal with any issues with ease. So the pillows will get delivered and everyone can sleep soundly, especially you. ATT 5G requires a compatible plan and device. Coverage not available everywhere. Learn [e-mail] 5G Network.

[Dustin Dean]

So what I want you to do is I just want you to think of something that is personal to you. Something I shouldn't be able to guess specifically. I think a fun thing would be to have you think of your celebrity crush or your first celebrity crush. It can be when you were younger or it can be now. I want you to just focus on who this person. Person is. You have not said who this is out loud, correct? Like you haven't told me or anything like that?

[Jane Marie]

No.

[Dustin Dean]

No. Okay, so I want you to imagine that you see this crush standing in front of you. Have you met this person before?

[Jane Marie]

No.

[Dustin Dean]

No. Okay. I want you to imagine you see them there in front of you and you are at some type of event where it's. Maybe it's like a red carpet event and you see this person whether, you know, again, I don't know if they're. Don't give any hints, but I don't know if they do music or if they do, you know, they're in movies or something like that. But just imagine you see them at some type of event and you're trying to get their attention. So you're just trying to say their name over and over and over and you're just kind of like waving them over. Just imagine doing that in your head, just over and over. Okay, so interesting. This is. Is this someone you. You saw when you were pretty young? Would you say. Is this when you had your. Your crush on them?

[Jane Marie]

Yeah, I'm like 10.

[Dustin Dean]

Okay. All right. So this. Oh, okay. So interesting. So a lot of people, I think when you think of like a celebrity crush when they're young, usually it would be like someone that's in a. In some type of boy band or they're like in, you know, some type of sitcom show with you. What's interesting is I'm getting that this is. There's definitely a feeling that this person is in specifically, like in movies. Is that right?

[Jane Marie]

Yes.

[Dustin Dean]

Yeah. And I also get a sense that this is someone who. Is this person still alive? I believe they are. Is that right?

[Jane Marie]

Yep.

[Dustin Dean]

Maybe they're listening right now. That would be.

[Jane Marie]

Hi.

[Dustin Dean]

Yeah. Do they do music as well, or. No, just.

[Jane Marie]

No, I don't think so.

[Dustin Dean]

Okay, so just acting. Okay. So was there a specific movie or something you've seen this person in that you're thinking of? This Is. Was it a movie with kids in it?

[Jane Marie]

Yes.

[Dustin Dean]

The Lord of the Flies?

[Jane Marie]

Yes.

[Dustin Dean]

Yeah. Is this. Is this Balthazar?

[Jane Marie]

Yes.

[Dustin Dean]

Yeah. Is that what you were thinking of?

[Jane Marie]

Yeah.

[Dustin Dean]

Yeah. Okay, great. That is a very specific, specific crush to have.

[Jane Marie]

That's not even a famous person anymore.

[Dustin Dean]

No. Yeah, that's a very specific one.

[Jane Marie]

I'm Jane Marie, and this is the dream. If you know even one thing about me, it's that I'm a world class skeptic. So it may surprise you that I'm also a huge, huge fan of magic. My daughter and I go see our favorite magician, Justin Willman. He has a show on Netflix called Magic for Humans. We go see him every time he has a show in town. I just love magicians, mediums, psychics, astrologers, the whole nine. Want to know why? Because it's fun. I love to be delighted, even when deep in my heart I understand it's all a big joke. Life is a joke, you know? So I seek out the fun where I can find it. And I've recently found so much fun in what this guy does.

[Dustin Dean]

My name is Dustin Dean. I am what's considered a professional mentalist. And so essentially, a mentalist is a lot like a magician. And we're still basically considered magicians. But the difference is, instead of focusing on sleight of hand and visual magic, we do what's called sleight of mind. We get inside people's heads. We make it seem like we have some type of psychic gift, even though we don't. And this is using a lot of different techniques like psychology, misdirection, trickery. Sometimes it is sleight of hand. We just make it seem like it's not. Whereas, you know, a magician, they are kind of like heavily focused on doing visual things, borrowing objects, making them vanish, sawing people in half, putting them back together. And there's a lot of different varieties. There's close up magic.

[Jane Marie]

I didn't understand what close up magic was before I went to a show. So can you describe the difference between close up, like, what that means?

[Dustin Dean]

Yeah. So close up magic is something I do as well. And it's basically where you can either be at, like, the magician could be at a table or the magician can be walking around. And it's basically close. You know, it's a magician going up to group to group, person to person, or having a little table and a small crowd and you're doing things that happen in their own hands.

[Jane Marie]

It's like David Blaine.

[Dustin Dean]

David Blaine, Exactly. Like street magic. Like just very impromptu. Even though usually it's not impromptu, but it feels impromptu. It feels like an impromptu intimate moment. It doesn't feel like it's a show.

[Jane Marie]

And that has to do with props and all of that sort of stuff.

[Dustin Dean]

Yeah, exactly.

[Jane Marie]

And mentalism is different how?

[Dustin Dean]

Yeah. So a mentalist, what we do, instead of using a lot of props and cards, a mentalist essentially is just doing a whole different presentation. It's basically the presentation of it. It's like if a magician would have you pick a card and then they would make the card vanish and appear somewhere else, a mentalist would have you pick a card without them seeing and using some type of process, be able to guess what that card is.

[Jane Marie]

Got it. That's kind of mind reading.

[Dustin Dean]

Yeah, it's. It's mind reading. But we. I mean, I shouldn't say every mentalist because some mentalists still do, you know, act like it's a real gift. But a lot of mentalists nowadays are open about the fact that this isn't real. It's not real mind reading. It's trickery. We're lying to you, we're cheating.

[Jane Marie]

It doesn't matter if it's real or not. To me. Real. I don't even know what I mean by that. Tell me a little more about your background. Like where are you from? How did you get into this?

[Dustin Dean]

Yeah, so I am from a city called Syracuse, New York.

[Jane Marie]

Heard of it?

[Dustin Dean]

It's smack dab in the middle of New York State. It's about four hours away from the big city, New York City. I was born and raised here. And when I was about six years old, I got a magic set from my mom for my birthday. And I remember I would do this. I remember I still have, like, pictures of it and stuff, but I had like this little magic hat on and a little magic wand, and I Would do these. It was a really dumb trick, but I would do it, like, over and over again because I loved it and it was easy to do. And I would just do it over and over again at the table in the living room. And my mom would freak out every. Like, she clearly knew how it worked, but she would act like it was the most amazing thing she's ever seen. I loved that feeling. I loved performing. And so from that path, from that day, I fell in love with performing and started doing all sorts of crazy things. I was in a punk rock band in high school. I went to pro wrestling school because I was obsessed with WWE and WWF and all that. And my dad was also a. He played guitar. He was like a gig person, you know, that was his job. Go do gigs. And so I was like, oh, that's so cool. I don't want a real job. Like, that's what I want to do.

[Jane Marie]

Wait, what did your mom do, though?

[Dustin Dean]

She was a waitress for pretty much her entire life.

[Jane Marie]

Cool.

[Dustin Dean]

And as a single mom, and they separated when I was a baby. And so it was a life that was a little bit rough. Cause it was, you know, we never had a ton of money and. But at the same time, like, I aspired to at least, you know, like, I just cared about performing. Entertaining. And then I kind of went back, actually. I saw David Blaine, his street magic special, when I was in probably middle school or something. And that made me fall back in love with magic. I was like, oh, I gotta get back to. This is the coolest thing I've ever seen. And I started learning card tricks and sleight of hand and started doing it during school to all my friends. Eventually, I fell in love with the psychology behind the magic rather than the sleight of hand. And that led me into learning about Darren Brown, who's a mentalist in the uk. And he was my biggest inspiration for what I do. It led me into the world of psychics and James Randi and Banachek, who was a student of James Randi, who's also a mentalist. And it kind of got me into the realm of learning how to fool people and deceive people into thinking I could truly read their minds when I couldn't.

[Jane Marie]

At what point did you turn to kind of looking at famous psychics?

[Dustin Dean]

So when I started learning mentalism specifically, and I started learning from other mentalists, it's almost like there's just a very strong history of magicians or mentalists that once we learn these secrets, there's a strong History of them turning towards debunking psychics. Houdini was one of the most. He was very adamant about debunking psychics in a huge way. He would put on public shows that were all about debunking psychics. And, you know, he had a challenge and everything.

[Jane Marie]

Oh, right after his death. Right. He, like, challenged. He, like, gave a code word to his wife or something. Is that.

[Dustin Dean]

Yes, it was his wife. And the code ended up being about his mother, which was eventually, if I.

[Jane Marie]

Can speak to you from beyond the grave, I will tell you this word.

[Dustin Dean]

Correct, exactly. And no psychic was able to do that. But they tried every year and he never came back. Yeah, exactly. As far as we know.

[Jane Marie]

Yeah.

[Dustin Dean]

Yeah. Back then, like, during Houdini's time, mentalists were called psychic entertainers. They didn't really call themselves mentalists, but they really grasped the whole psychic Persona. And they. Back then, they would just say it was a. A psychic gift. They didn't really say that what they're doing isn't real. But that's because it really was a different. It was like a spiritualist movement. And they. They kind of took advantage of that. They. They knew that people would believe it. Nowadays, most people don't. I mean, I don't know. Most people don't believe in those. In that presentation. But I am noticing kind of a shift. Like, I think a lot of people would buy into that now. There's a process to what we do, and it's trickery. Like, there's definitely. We cheat, basically. But the. I'm very open about the fact that what I'm doing is trickery and it's not real, and I tell people I'm lying to them when I do a show afterwards. Even though I tell people during my show that I don't have any psychic gifts, I don't have any abilities, I still get so many people that come up and they'll say, yeah, but how did you do that? Because there's no other way you could have done that. So you. They're usually like the people who believe in psychics and the supernatural will usually say, well, I think you have a gift. You just don't realize it. Oh, but in reality, it's not true. It's something simple. It's just if they knew the secret, it would be dumb. Foreign.

[Jane Marie]

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[Dustin Dean]

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[Jane Marie]

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[Dustin Dean]

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[Jane Marie]

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[Dustin Dean]

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[Jane Marie]

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[Dustin Dean]

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[Jane Marie]

It's cause it happens often enough though. Isn't that the way, like a lot of church, a lot of preachers would do their, I don't know, healing and mind reading and things. It was like a production like those, like television preachers. There were producers that would go out into the audience and say, you're going to be the one in the wheelchair today and then you're going to walk miraculously onto the stage.

[Dustin Dean]

So there were like, yeah. In fact, Peter Popoff was A very famous pastor who would go on TV and he would somehow, like, point at people in the audience and he would guess, you know, where they live, what their ailment is, all these sorts of crazy things. He would know their names, like, without them saying anything, all this information. And James Randi, the Amazing Randy, him and his student Banachek, who is also a mentalist, figured out that he was using. They thought he had something in his ear when they went to go see it live. And so they literally hired this guy to use this transmitter device that catches the radio signals. So they were able to, in real time, pick up what he was receiving in his ear, which happened to be from his wife, who was feeding him the information from the tickets and where they were sitting. And she would look up their address and, like, get all this information about them, and she would tell him the information in real time. And then this was posted live on television on Carson. Johnny Carson. Is that his name? So they showed it, and it was amazing. I suspected that Popov's revelations were other than divine. The radio scanner we brought to the hall picked up a decidedly worldly source.

[Jane Marie]

Hello, Petey, can you hear me? If you can't, you're in trouble.

[Dustin Dean]

Pop up. Was being prompted by his wife through a wireless earpiece.

[Jane Marie]

John Dearly Johnson. She'd gotten her information from prayer cards.

[Dustin Dean]

Filled out by the faithful before the show began. She wants to get rid of the walker. You want to get rid of this walker, Sister? Oh, glory. How long have you been walking on that walker?

[Jane Marie]

About three years.

[Dustin Dean]

Three years. She lives at 1627 10th Street. 1627 10th Street? That's right. She has arthritis. Burning this arthritis right out of your body. Take a few steps just to make the devil mad. Hallelujah. He got completely debunked and exposed, which is crazy because then obviously he fell off. Peter. Pop off. Like, didn't do.

[Jane Marie]

He didn't pop off anymore?

[Dustin Dean]

Yeah, he didn't pop off. He didn't do his thing for a while, but then now he's back.

[Jane Marie]

Oh, really?

[Dustin Dean]

He's selling holy water in jars or something.

[Jane Marie]

Wow.

[Dustin Dean]

That's his new thing. New scam.

[Jane Marie]

One of my favorites. And he does a lot of live readings on the Internet is John Edwards. He had a talk show for a while where he would point people out in the audience and. And kind of toss out generalities around. Okay, I see that in this area, you've lost someone young. Who's the person that was young? And then it has something to do with their heart or their neck. Which is like. Well, your heart. Yeah, everyone's heart stops during death, that's for sure.

[Dustin Dean]

Yeah. So if I go over there in that section, is there some type of fire story in that back section over there? Are you guys together? Okay, say it again.

[Jane Marie]

We're talking about the same person.

[Dustin Dean]

Okay. And did this person pass in a fire? She was dismembered and burnt in a.

[Jane Marie]

Say yes. Yes.

[Dustin Dean]

Just say yes or no. I don't know if there's a father figure to you who has passed or if there's an older male energy that's connected to me that's above you that would be like, father. Tell me to talk about somebody who literally. I see. I see the. I see. I see smoke and fire. So I know that there's some level of that having to do with their passing or having to do with the connection around their passing. And I don't know if this was done because they wanted to get rid of evidence or if they wanted to get rid of something on. On that level. And is somebody now pregnant?

[Jane Marie]

The person.

[Dustin Dean]

The person who died was. So the person who passed was pregnant.

[Jane Marie]

I also like that Tyler guy. What's his name? The Tyler Hollywood. Tyler Henry. Yeah. He's the Hollywood psychic.

[Dustin Dean]

Yeah. Both of those people that you just mentioned, interestingly enough, have me blocked on social media. Well, which is funny.

[Jane Marie]

I could fill you in on what they're doing, but it's the same old stuff that they've always been doing.

[Dustin Dean]

Oh, yeah, yeah.

[Jane Marie]

How do they work?

[Dustin Dean]

So in the case of. And again, this is all. Obviously, I don't have all the answers to the universe. Like, maybe there is a small chance that these psychics have some type of insane supernatural ability. But from what I've seen personally and in my experience as a mentalist, I have never seen anything that has made me think that. That they have some supernatural gift. In John Edwards case, what I see is him doing a lot of what's called cold reading, which is just like what you said, where they kind of throw out these vague statements that could apply to a lot of different situations and especially when they have a big audience because there's going to be someone that connects with something. And essentially the idea of it is that this psychic is getting the person who is called the sitter who is receiving the reading, getting that person to make all of the connections for the psychic. Because if a psychic was real, if they could really be talking to a spirit, they would just be able to say these things directly.

[Jane Marie]

Right.

[Dustin Dean]

That's never what happens. What happens Is they say, oh, I'm getting, you know, an M name or something. Why are you getting. What do you mean you're getting an M name? Like, you can't hear them. Like, you. They're telling you, my name starts with an M. It doesn't make sense. You know what I mean? They would just say the name. They would just say, my name is Mary or something.

[Jane Marie]

Yeah. They would point someone out in the audience and be like, brian, your Aunt Mary says that you need to take care of her parakeet.

[Dustin Dean]

Exactly.

[Jane Marie]

And then that would be it instead of it's an M and there's an animal that is attached to this person. This person has an exotic pet, maybe.

[Dustin Dean]

Yeah, exactly. And it's funny because. So as a mentalist, I do that in my show as well. I do this whole thing that's very similar to what a psychic would do.

[Jane Marie]

Can you do it to Dan right now?

[Dustin Dean]

Well, so. No, because. So the part of the show is. It's like I said, I cheat. And so what it does is I'm using. And I'm gonna explain this in a moment, but there's something called cold reading, and there's something called hot reading. Okay, now, cold reading is like we just talked about, where you're just throwing out general information, and that's what John Edwards is known for. He does a lot of that without knowing any information. Hot reading is what I believe Tyler Henry uses. And hot reading is something you can mix with cold reading. Hot reading is when you know one piece of information or a couple. Something specific. So like you just said, maybe a psychic would know that this person, somehow, they know that they have a parakeet, you know, and that's their hot information. So now they can use cold reading to kind of connect to that information they already know.

[Jane Marie]

Well, also, he only does psychic readings on really famous people.

[Dustin Dean]

Yeah. That we know a ton of information about.

[Jane Marie]

Easy to. Yeah. To look up. Yeah.

[Dustin Dean]

Yeah. And he. And his best defense against that is saying, like, oh, well, I didn't really know them. Or like, I never heard of Kim Kardashian or something like. That's ridiculous.

[Jane Marie]

Right, right, right.

[Dustin Dean]

Like, everyone has the medical medium can.

[Jane Marie]

Talk to spirit, but he is not a real doctor. I am all about mediums. I'm so obsessed. Anyone that knows me knows I love connecting to the spirit world. So, yeah, if you can tell me anything. What is up with Tyler's scribbling?

[Dustin Dean]

Yeah. So he's an interesting one. What fascinates me about him is that Tyler Henry, whenever I see him do his thing. He comes off as someone who learned mentalism at a young age or watched magic and kind of like me and decided, oh, you know what, I think I can do this and make people think it's real. Because he uses a lot of very old techniques and things that are like in very old mentalism books and psychic books. Because that is something called automatic writing, which is not something that many psychics do nowadays. It's kind of like an old fashioned performance. Mentalists used to be known as psychic entertainers and a lot of them would use like these performance things where they would take a pad and they would do automatic writing where they're scribbling and while they're scribbling they're getting messages. But in reality, the reason this was kind of invented is a lot of mentalists back in the day would remember how we talked about getting slips of paper that people fill out. Well, a lot of mentalists back in the day, they would have those slips of paper they would secretly obtain and then they would hold it in a secret pocket where they're writing on the pad, or they would like hold it while scribbling on a pad and they would just read the information so they didn't have to remember it. So this was kind of something that to me, when I, when I saw his.

[Jane Marie]

Oh, because it gives them something to be looking at and doing. And then the person getting read wouldn't notice that they had something in front of them that had information on it because they're just like their hand is going wild.

[Dustin Dean]

Exactly.

[Jane Marie]

Yeah.

[Dustin Dean]

It gives them a justification. And you know, again, I don't know if he's doing that at all. But I do find it interesting that he's using that kind of presentation that he says, you know, that's how he gets his messages. So it is, it is interesting. And there's also. I just saw a clip of him recently on one of his. I don't know if it was his special or if he was just being interviewed, but there's a clip of him which I. It blew me away that he did this because this is definitely not something that a psychic would normally do. This is something that a magician would do.

[Jane Marie]

Okay.

[Dustin Dean]

He was doing this reading with like these two interviewers and he was like getting this basic information saying he was talking to a spirit. And he keeps hearing the name David. And she's like, oh, that's, I forget what she said. Like, that's my uncle or something, or my friend David. And he said David, really? And then he like Pulled out of his pocket a paper that he opened up. It was folded and it had the name David on it. He's like, look, David, I wrote this down earlier, David. And I was blown away by this. I was like, that is the corniest. Like, that is like you just did a magic trick. That's not a psychic thing to do. I also want to point something out here. This is going to be a little weird, but I see. Okay.

[Jane Marie]

All right.

[Dustin Dean]

Microphone's in there. I want to show you this. So before I came here today, I wrote down.

[Jane Marie]

This.

[Dustin Dean]

Now it was stuffed animal plushie, would be today's object. Oh, my God.

[Jane Marie]

And the weird thing about that is.

[Dustin Dean]

That this symbolized basically that regardless of how little or how much that person comes through today, you need to know they were coming through before I even got here today. So at the very least. So haunt reading, again, is what I believe he uses, which is where you hear of people doing social media research, like psychics looking up social media before the show. Or maybe they fill slips out at the show and then someone relays that information, which is more like my show because I have. I combine hot reading and cold reading. I don't do any research.

[Jane Marie]

Wait, who would fill out a slip on their way into a psychic reading?

[Dustin Dean]

It happens more than you think. It's a lot easier for me to do because as a mentalist, they know they're coming in to see a magic show. So for mine, for example, I have slips that have them fill out things that say interesting and unique things about themselves. They write down and then they're tossed in a bowl. And I never touch those or anything. But then I'm able to go on and do some cold reading and guess these very specific things. So that's how it's done in my show. And psychics essentially can do the same thing. But for example, Tyler Henry, his live show, before he comes out, he has a big projection on the screen in the back, and it's a QR code. And it says. It's basically like a sign up to his. You put your email in, or your name and your email, and you get his newsletter. He puts this up right before his show. Now, to me, that's insane. If I were to do that, If I were to do that at my show, people would be like, well, you're clearly. You're just getting my name from the. From my. If I sign up and you're getting that information. But him, he gets. Psychics get away with a lot more. It's so ironic because psychics get away with things that me as a mentalist or magician could never get away with. Because people, when they go see a mentalist or magician, they know they're being tricked and they want to try to like, catch you out. They're like, it's almost like a challenge. You are no dummy, but you're kind of acting like one. You used to crush it in school, outsmarting opponents on the field, and now, well, you're still smart, but not exactly challenging yourself. You could be advancing nuclear engineering in the world's most powerful navy. You were born for it. So make the smart choice. You can be smart or you can be nuke smart. Become a nuclear [e-mail] nukesmart America's Navy.

[Jane Marie]

Forged by the Sea this podcast is brought to you by Aura. By the time you hear about a data breach, your information has already been exposed for months. On average, companies take 277 days to report a breach. That's nine months where hackers have access to your personal data. That's why we're thrilled to partner with Aura. Aura is an all in one digital safety solution that monitors the dark web for your phone number, email and Social Security number, sending real time alerts if your info is found. It also includes a vpn, password manager and data broker removal to help keep you safe for a limited time. Aura is offering a 14 day free trial plus a dark web scan to check if your personal information has been leaked. All for [e-mail] safety that's aura.com safety to sign up and protect your loved ones. That's a u r a.com safety terms apply. Check the site for details. I got my money back at a Copperfield show once.

[Dustin Dean]

Really?

[Jane Marie]

Yeah. I walked out in Vegas because I was sat at this. I had this one. Wherever I was sat, I could see just barely under the stage and I could see people moving back and forth underneath it to like hand him things from beneath the stage. And I got immediately bored. And I walked back to the desk at the casino and I said I could see everybody underneath the stage from my seat. And they were like, what seat were you in? And I was like, I'm not gonna tell you that. That's giving away all my secrets.

[Dustin Dean]

I'll keep that seat away.

[Jane Marie]

Yeah, but I'd like my money back. And they were like, okay. And then I asked the lady, I was like, does this ever happen? And she said, yeah, every once in a while. So I'm not the only person that's.

[Dustin Dean]

Oh my gosh.

[Jane Marie]

But yeah, a magician or a mentalist or something like that. You understand you're being given a show, but I guess with a psychic you have to kind of believe that they have some special ability.

[Dustin Dean]

People typically, when they go to see a psychic, they're there because they want them to connect with someone in their life. They are wishing that this is true and they're hoping that it's true. So it's a lot easier for psychics to really take advantage of those feelings and those. That. It's not even that people are gullible, it's just that they want it to be true because. And a lot of them are grieving like they've lost someone and they want to talk to that person. So they get away with a lot of things.

[Jane Marie]

This makes me think of our. And I don't want to jump too far ahead, but what you're saying right now makes me think of our current like political environment and our political leaders who just lie, lie, lie, lie, lie. And then people vote for them.

[Dustin Dean]

Yeah.

[Jane Marie]

And want to believe the lies. Do you think about that?

[Dustin Dean]

Absolutely. Yeah, absolutely I do.

[Jane Marie]

Do you have specific thoughts on like how our president just will go on television and spew a bunch of lies? And then people are like, rah, rah, this guy sounds great, but he's just.

[Dustin Dean]

Like, honestly, it's full of baloney. It's insane to me. And to me it. And especially in my background of, of seeing like, you know, exposing faith healers and psychics and these cult like ideologies, it is, it's kind of frightening to see it in this scale, in this large scale of, of things because we've obviously, we've heard about it happening in history where there's things like this happening, but seeing it happen now is.

[Jane Marie]

Rasputin is the only one I can really think of.

[Dustin Dean]

Yeah, yeah, no, exactly. And it's kind of scary.

[Jane Marie]

There's also the Long island medium. I think she's one of the most famous psychics at the moment, right?

[Dustin Dean]

Yes. Theresa Caputo.

[Jane Marie]

Teresa Caputo, right. She's the one with the like giant blonde hair.

[Dustin Dean]

Giant hair, yeah. Yeah. So Teresa Caputo, the Long island medium. She is frequently showcased on the Drew Barrymore Show. She was supposedly connecting with someone who she was saying she was getting like blood in her throat or a taste of blood and something that was kind of like sudden and something with their heart or their chest or it's like a sudden death type of thing and that they were young. In cold reading, there's something called. Which is a technique she's using which is saying general information. There's something called Barnum statements. And Barnum statements are statements that, if you say, really applies to a ton of different people and a ton of different situations. So when she says, you know, immediately she's getting, you know, something sudden, she's getting blood taste in her throat. We have the unexpected departure over here.

[Jane Marie]

Because I just keep tasting blood.

[Dustin Dean]

So that's my symbol for when someone.

[Jane Marie]

Leaves the physical world.

[Dustin Dean]

Essentially, what she's doing is she's saying, like, okay, this. This covers a lot of things. This could be a heart attack. It could be throat cancer. It could be someone died of old age suddenly from a heart attack. It could be. But then she. She does. Eventually, she starts. When someone connects, she says she's getting someone. Like, it was sudden and unexpected, so.

[Jane Marie]

Because I'm gonna say this.

[Dustin Dean]

This was an absolute freak thing that happened on how I left the physical world.

[Jane Marie]

Yeah.

[Dustin Dean]

And she's also getting someone young because the person she connected with was a pretty young person. And when. This is a very clever thing that. I mean, I don't think it's that clever, but psychics keep using it, and it's this technique where they say was like, a sudden death, which statistically, most young deaths are very unexpected and also very sudden. You know, no one really expects that kind of thing, and especially when she's already established that this is like she's tasting blood in her throat. So she. It covers a lot of things. It could be, you know, a suicide that someone did. It could be they were in a horrible accident. It could be, again, like, a heart attack or something like that.

[Jane Marie]

Mm.

[Dustin Dean]

This person who is sitting, you know, says, oh, she. She gives all the information. She says, oh, this is my. My best friend. When we were younger, I had a.

[Jane Marie]

Friend who got ran over day after his birthday. Yeah. It was a very rainy night. Darbar just didn't see, and he jaywalked.

[Dustin Dean]

What happens is Theresa and a lot of psychics that do this, whenever the sitter gives information, they basically attempt to later on take credit for the fact that they got that information. And a lot of people buy into that. They'll say, well, how would. How would she have known that it was her friend that died in a car accident? And I always say. And in my video, I say, she didn't. She didn't know that information. If she knew that information, she would have just said it. She would have said, there's someone in this audience who looks like this. Her best friend died in a car accident when she was young, and she wants to tell you this. That's not what happened. She has to say, start with the general information. Have the person sitting say most of the information.

[Jane Marie]

Did someone leave the scene of the accident or.

[Dustin Dean]

Because I heard. Tell her that even if they got to me sooner, I still would not have been able to survive. And then all Teresa does is she kind of closes it up by saying, you know, oh, well, they just wanted to let you know there's nothing that could have been done. Essentially, you know, kind of wraps it up in a nice. In a nice ending package where, you know, everyone feels good about it. He actually just said to me that you had a dream of him.

[Jane Marie]

Yeah.

[Dustin Dean]

He goes, I told her that I was okay in a dream. When souls step forward and they take responsibility for their departure, it means that they take responsibility for their actions, choices, or decisions. Decisions. Do you understand that? I get in a lot of fights with other magicians and mentalists about this very topic because a lot of mentalists think that there should never be a thought in someone's mind, that what we're doing isn't genuine something. Whether it's mind reading, whether it's psychology, whatever. I disagree because fundamentally, and I don't know what the reason is, if this is just how I was raised, if it's just morally, I cannot simply deceive people and then gain profit off of it. Like, I just can't do it. I don't. I don't like when people. For example, if people come to me and they say, wow, you're incred. You have an amazing gift. You're incredible. You are. You know, and they say these things. Like, I go, no, no, no. Like, I don't have a gift. It's nothing supernatural. I can't live with that. It really bothers me that I want people to leave knowing the truth, even though it's so funny, because I'm literally lying to them during the show. I'm deceiving them during the show for fun, for entertainment. But when it's all said and done, I don't want anyone leaving being misinformed and misled and changing beliefs. Because mentalism, in a way, can be very believable if I'm doing something and I guess their childhood best friend or something, their name, their best friend when they were kids, I could. You know, people could leave believing that's believable, like, there's some way I'm doing that, whether it's a special gift or something. But I don't want them to leave thinking that I don't want them to leave thinking that I have a psychic power. Morally, I just can't. I can't do it.

[Jane Marie]

Yeah. But it's also almost cooler that it's a skill like that. Seems cooler than a gift to me.

[Dustin Dean]

Yeah. I like telling people like I just did, and this is completely true. I just did a high school show two nights ago on Long Island. Speaking of Long Island. But I just did a high school show for all these seniors. And at the end of the show, a lot of them were amazed, and they came up and they were asking me. They're like, wait, but how do you do this? How do you do this? You're not a psychic. You can't read minds. And I said, no, it's just something I've learned. It's a skill you learn, and you learn these techniques. And they said, you're telling me I could do this, I could learn this. Like, I could, you know, do it myself. And I said, Absolutely, 1,000%. If I could do it, you could do it. Anyone can do it. You just have to put the work in. You have to really learn it and study it. And there's something about that that. I agree. I think that's more inspiring to me.

[Jane Marie]

Than the idea that magic is real.

[Dustin Dean]

Yeah.

[Jane Marie]

Why do you think people want to believe it so badly?

[Dustin Dean]

Because it is awesome. Like, if magic was real, if people could have supernatural powers, if they could move things with their mind, then that would be awesome. Like, life would be a lot more interesting and fun. But in reality, I just haven't. I haven't seen any proof of that. I haven't seen that before.

[Jane Marie]

Could we teach our audience about the popsicle stick?

[Dustin Dean]

Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. Oh, you saw that one?

[Jane Marie]

Yeah. It's similar to spoon bending, but easier. It is, and kids can do it. Can you describe it?

[Dustin Dean]

Yes. Yeah, it's a really fun one. So what you do is you take a popsicle stick and then you bend it to the point where one side of the popsicle stick starts to crack and break, kind of splits up in the middle.

[Jane Marie]

You're bending it in the middle, right?

[Dustin Dean]

Yeah, right in the middle. And then the other side of it is still intact. You can't see that there's any type of breakage in it. So you do it just enough till you get that one side kind of splintered and broken. Then you put it back straight and so that if you hold it towards someone on the side that has no breakage in it or anything, it looks totally normal. It looks fine. And what you do is you hold it in between your thumb and your first finger at the very bottom of the popsicle stick. So you kind of hold it up in front of someone and then use your other hand to snap your fingers. And while you do this, you use the hand that's holding the popsicle stick to flick it with your ring finger.

[Jane Marie]

Or middle finger at the very bottom of the stick.

[Dustin Dean]

Yeah. You flick the very bottom. And what will happen is it will cause it to snap in half, like instantly. And it looks like you're controlling this with your mind. You can even. To kind of sell the illusion even more, you can even like hold it forward. How should I say it kind of like. So instead of up and down, the popsicle stick, you kind of hold it so that it is parallel to the floor.

[Jane Marie]

Okay.

[Dustin Dean]

And then when you do it, it will snap upwards, which is like an unnatural movement. Instead of it snapping down, it like snaps up.

[Jane Marie]

Yeah.

[Dustin Dean]

Towards you, towards, you know, the ceiling. And that looks cool. That look. It just looks magical. It looks like you're. You're breaking it with your mind.

[Jane Marie]

The dream is a production of Little Everywhere. See you next week. And now a next level moment from AT&T business.

[Dustin Dean]

Say you've sent out a gigantic shipment.

[Jane Marie]

Of pillows and they need to be there in time for International Sleep day. You've got AT and T5G so you're fully confident, but the vendor isn't responding. And International Sleep Day is tomorrow. Luckily, AT&T 5G lets you deal with any issues with ease. So the pillows will get delivered and everyone can sleep soundly, especially you. AT&T 5G requires a compatible plan and device coverage not available everywhere. Learn [e-mail] 5G Network this podcast is brought to you by Aura. By the time you hear about a data breach, your information has already been exposed for months. On average, companies take 277 days to report a breach. That's nine months where hackers have access to your personal data. That's why we're thrilled to partner with Aura. Aura is an all in one digital safety solution that monitors the dark web for your phone number, email and Social Security number, sending real time alerts if your info is found. It also includes a vpn, password manager and data broker removal. To help keep you safe for a limited time. Aura is offering a 14 day free trial plus a dark web scan to check if your personal information has been leaked. All for [e-mail] safety that's aura.com safety to sign up and protect your loved ones. That's a u r a.com terms apply. Check the site for details.

[Dustin Dean]

Acast powers the World's Best Podcasts Here's a show that we recommend.

[Jane Marie]

Hey guys.

[Dustin Dean]

We have an exciting announcement about our podcast.

[Jane Marie]

For the past seven years, the Holderness.

[Dustin Dean]

Family Podcast has been the most favorite thing we do. We love getting to talk to experts. We love having meaningful conversations just the two of us, and we also love hearing from you.

[Jane Marie]

But the thing we love most is.

[Dustin Dean]

Being a place where you can laugh.

[Jane Marie]

A lot has changed in the last.

[Dustin Dean]

Seven years and we feel very lucky that our audience is growing older with us.

[Jane Marie]

So in the spirit of that, we are relaunching our podcast.

[Dustin Dean]

We are excited to introduce Laugh Lines with Kim and Penn Holderness. The Laugh Lines podcast will be all.

[Jane Marie]

About aging together better and also being.

[Dustin Dean]

Able to laugh about getting older. We hope you'll join us. Search Laugh Lines with Kim and Pen Holderness New episodes every Tuesday. ACAST helps creators launch, grow and monetize their podcasts everywhere.

[Jane Marie]

Acast.com.