The MVP Of NLP

Summary

Podcast Title: The Dream
Host/Author: Little Everywhere
Episode: The MVP Of NLP
Release Date: July 4, 2025

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Introduction

In this episode of "The Dream," hosted by Little Everywhere, the focus shifts to the intriguing world of Neuro Linguistic Programming (NLP). The conversation primarily centers around understanding NLP's principles, its applications, and the controversies surrounding its scientific validity. The episode features an engaging dialogue between renowned motivational speaker Mel Robbins and Dr. John James Santangelo, a clinical hypnosis expert and advocate of NLP.

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Understanding NLP

Mel Robbins initiates the discussion by questioning the fundamental aspects of mindset coaching, emphasizing the scientific basis behind mental programming. She remarks:

“When you program your mind correctly and if you're clear about what you want to create, your mind will help you get what you want.”
[00:01:39]

John James Santangelo elaborates on the essence of NLP, explaining its components:

“Neuro, the mind-body connection... Linguistic, the language we use internally and externally... Programming, the processes we undergo.”
[00:09:18]

He draws an analogy by likening the human brain to a computer's hard drive, suggesting that our primary caretakers download their beliefs and behaviors onto us, shaping our internal programming from an early age.

---

Historical Context of NLP

The conversation delves into the origins of NLP, highlighting its inception in the 1970s at the University of Santa Cruz by John Grinder and Richard Bandler. Mel Robbins provides context:

“They were also fans of hypnosis, just like John here.”
[00:07:15]

Santangelo recounts their experimentation with Fritz Perls, a prominent psychologist, leading to the formulation of NLP as a method to help individuals achieve their goals without dwelling on past issues. Their aim was to create actionable steps and "cheat codes" to happiness and success.

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The Mechanics of NLP

A significant portion of the episode is dedicated to demystifying how NLP operates. Santangelo introduces the concept of internal representation, which is the subjective interpretation of external events filtered through our beliefs, memories, and values.

He demonstrates this with interactive examples:

“The word is dog.”
Mel Robbins: “Gross.”
[00:18:10]

This exercise illustrates how language can influence emotional states and, consequently, behavior. By changing one's internal dialogue, NLP posits that individuals can alter their physiological and emotional responses.

Santangelo emphasizes the power of language:

“When we communicate to ourselves and other people... we use words that limit us. Transforming these words changes our biochemistry, emotions, and actions.”
[00:02:10]

He introduces the concept of negations (e.g., "but," "can't," "don't") and advocates for replacing them with more constructive language like "and" or "try." This subtle shift, he argues, can lead to significant changes in mindset and behavior.

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Practical Applications and Examples

The discussion moves to the practical application of NLP techniques. Santangelo provides actionable steps for improving internal dialogue:

1. Replace Negations:

   • Instead of saying, “I can’t do this,” use, “I can do this.”
   • [00:24:09]

2. Shift “Problem” to “Challenge”:

   • Reframing problems as challenges to foster a proactive mindset.
   • [00:27:29]

3. Use “And” Instead of “But”:

   • This maintains the positive aspects while introducing the next point without negation.
   • [00:25:01]

Mel Robbins engages actively, responding to these techniques in real-time. For instance, when instructed to think of the word "dog," she initially reacts negatively but then demonstrates how changing her physical state (standing up, thinking of her daughter) alters her emotional response:

“Now you think about how gross dogs are.”
Santangelo: “That changes your internal state.”
[00:18:33] - [00:20:14]

This segment underscores the interplay between physical actions and emotional states, a core tenet of NLP.

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Controversies and Scientific Validity

Mel Robbins raises critical points about the scientific community's stance on NLP:

“The scientific world says it's complete hooey... it's a pseudoscientific approach.”
[00:03:48]

She references a 2015 paper by Nelson Cowan, which critiques George Miller's seminal work on working memory and suggests that the entertaining presentation of NLP principles may have hindered serious scientific exploration.

Santangelo acknowledges these criticisms but focuses on the practical efficacy of NLP in coaching and therapy. He argues that despite the lack of widespread academic endorsement, NLP has profoundly impacted personal development and business communication.

---

Interactive Demonstrations

Towards the end of the episode, Santangelo showcases a simple magic trick to illustrate the principles of NLP and the power of belief in shaping reality:

“Watch this. Some people actually think this is real.”
[00:29:46]

He manipulates a pen, making it disappear and reappear, challenging Mel Robbins' perception and demonstrating how belief can alter one's experience of reality. This act serves as a metaphor for how NLP techniques aim to transform internal dialogues to change external behaviors and perceptions.

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Conclusion

The episode wraps up with Mel Robbins reflecting on the intense and transformative nature of the discussion:

“I felt fired up and discombobulated... If he was my life coach, I would just be like, yeah, let's get to the bottom of this, dude.”
[00:30:43]

Despite initial skepticism, Robbins acknowledges the potential of NLP to foster positive change through mindful communication and self-programming. The dialogue between Robbins and Santangelo encapsulates the balance between NLP's practical applications and the ongoing debate about its scientific legitimacy.

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Key Takeaways

1. Language Shapes Reality: The words we use internally and externally significantly impact our emotional states and behaviors.
2. Reframing Techniques: Switching negative words like "but" and "problem" to more positive alternatives can enhance mindset and outcomes.
3. Mind-Body Connection: Physical actions can influence emotional and mental states, a foundational principle in NLP.
4. Controversial Science: While NLP is widely used in coaching and therapy, its scientific validity remains contested within academic circles.
5. Practical Efficacy: Regardless of scientific debates, many practitioners and clients report tangible benefits from applying NLP techniques.

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Notable Quotes

• Mel Robbins:
  “When you tell your mind what's important to you, there is extraordinary science that proves that your mind has a live and ever-changing filter.”
  [00:01:39]

• John James Santangelo:
  “Our words shape the way we think and how we feel. And how we feel determines what we do.”
  [00:02:10]

• John James Santangelo:
  “A negation is like don't, shouldn't, can't. Instead of using the word 'but'.”
  [00:24:09]

• Mel Robbins:
  “I call myself an idiot 30 times a day. I do.”
  [00:29:26]

• John James Santangelo:
  “One of the most powerful ways to change your world is to change your internal dialogue.”
  [00:23:38]

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Final Thoughts

"The MVP Of NLP" provides a comprehensive exploration of Neuro Linguistic Programming, blending theoretical insights with practical demonstrations. The episode effectively highlights the transformative potential of mindful communication and self-programming while acknowledging the controversies surrounding NLP's scientific acceptance. For listeners keen on personal development and understanding the nuances of mindset coaching, this episode offers valuable perspectives and actionable strategies.

Transcript

[Dr. Patrick McGrath]

What if I told you that right now millions of people are living with a debilitating condition that's so misunderstood, many of them don't even know that they have it. That condition is obsessive compulsive disorder, or OCD. I'm Dr. Patrick McGrath, the chief clinical officer of NOCD. And in the 25 years I've been treating OCD, I've met so many people who are suffering from the condition in silence, unaware of just what it was. OCD can create overwhelming anxiety and fear around what you value most, make you question your identity, beliefs and morals, and drive you to perform mentally and physically draining compulsions or rituals. Over my career, I've seen just how devastating OCD can be when it's left untreated. But help is available. That's where NOCD comes in. NOCD is the world's largest virtual therapy provider for obsessive compulsive disorder. Our licensed therapists are trained in exposure and response prevention therapy, a specialized treatment proven to be incredibly effective for OCD. So visit nocd.com to schedule a free 15 minute call with our team. That's nocd.com.

[Hannah Berner]

Hey, guys, it's Hannah from Giggly Squad. You know, I love beauty, and that's why I go to Sephora. It's not just shopping. It's like a glam experience. The beauty advisors actually get beauty, unlike those big box stores. And they give me all the advice I need. And I love going with the products you can only find at Sephora, like my new favorite Kayali fragrance, my perfect shade of Haus Labs foundation, and finally restocked my Laneige lip mask, all with the help of real experts. Oh, and if you haven't tried day shampoo, go try it. It's a game changer. Sephora isn't just a store. It's the beauty destination. Go. You'll thank me later.

[Mel Robbins]

Okay, let's get back into that whole mindset thing that all coaches rely on. When you tell your mind what's important to you, there is extraordinary science that proves that your mind has a live and ever changing filter. A live network that changes how it views the world, what it lets in, what it blocks out. And if you program your mind correctly and if you're clear about what you want to create, your mind will help you get what you want.

[John James Santangelo]

When I say, watch your language. Our words shape the way we think and how we feel. And how we feel determines what we do. And what we do determines whether you get results or not. I'm talking about being Aware that there are certain words that you use, everyone individually uses that put your energy up and some that put it down. Certain words and phrases start to limit you. Certain words and phrases free you. By transforming the words you use regularly, you literally change your biochemistry, your emotions, your. Your thinking and your actions.

[Mel Robbins]

Let's say you decide to make some chocolate chip cookies. You get out a bowl, you add the milk, you add the flour, the brown sugar, the egg. But what if I told you that the cookies changed the way they tasted based on the bowl you picked? That's what language is. Language does not just communicate emotion. It shapes what we're feeling. That was Mel Robbins, Tony Robbins, and Brene Brown who forgot to add chocolate chips to that chocolate chip cookie recipe. That was a weird metaphor for something. What all this sounds like to me is manifesting or envisioning or whatever. But the key words they're using are brain and language and programming. And even though they don't name it, it has Neuro Linguistic Programming, or nlp. Tony Robbins is an outright proponent and expert in nlp, and it has seeped into almost every corner of the coaching world. But the scientific world says it's complete hooey, which made it really hard to find someone reputable to talk about it. Academics simply don't take it seriously. The first sentence on Wikipedia's page about NLP reads, neuro Linguistic Programming. NLP is a pseudoscientific approach to communication, personal development, and psychotherapy. So the Tony Robbins, the expensive workshops, the pseudoscience. I mean, NLP is not great at being taken seriously, at least by me. But there's no ignoring its impact on coaching. Finally, I found someone who said they would, for free, help me understand this thing. John James Santangelo.

[John James Santangelo]

Before we get started, I listened to a couple of your episodes. You're like, you're tough. Oh, I'm like, you're gonna ask hard questions. I'm giving it back to you.

[Mel Robbins]

I can't wait.

[John James Santangelo]

Yeah.

[Mel Robbins]

John has written a book called Discovering Introduction to the Basic Principles of nlp. And if I were his copy editor, I wouldn't have let him put NLP in the title twice. But anyway, luckily, John lives nearby enough to be here with me in person. Perhaps that was my first mistake.

[John James Santangelo]

I started out probably like most people, looking for answers. And I started my psychology degree and going that direction, I'm like, no, don't want to do that. I can't sit in a room for eight hours with people and just listen to people complain. I'm not that kind of person. I'm the kind of person, if we communicate and you tell me what the problem is and I have a solution, I'm going to kick you in the ass to tell you how to do it. I found NLP after I found Tony Robbins and I got certified. Then I went on to different instructors around the country and then finished my degree, just finished my PhD in clinical hypnosis. I started doing that and I thought, I don't need that. I just wanted the PhD after my name. Looks good on the.

[Mel Robbins]

Dr. John James Santangelo, PhD is not a huge fan of traditional talk therapy, especially the Freudian kind. Neither were the men who invented neuro linguistic programming.

[John James Santangelo]

When we come to the conclusion that we don't know what we're doing and we go to seek help outside of ourselves, we usually go to a therapist. And up until the 40s, 50s and 60s, that's all there was. There was no other type of traditional therapy. So these two gentlemen at the University of Santa Cruz, one was a mathematician, he's a genius.

[Mel Robbins]

So there were these two guys at UC Santa Cruz in the 70s, these two guys, their names are John Grinder and Richard Bandler. Bandler was studying psychology and Grinder was a linguistics professor. And I don't know if you know what UC Santa Cruz in the 70s as shorthand for, but it's like hippie dippy thinking. And a lot of it was great.

[John James Santangelo]

Richard, he came across a gentleman by the name of Fritz Perls. And Fritz Perls was a psychologist and one of the best at the time. Well, Richard sat down and Fritz said to him, I want you to sit in on my sessions and take notes and transcribe everything. Richard, being a mathematician at 21 year old, said, wow, this is a formula, a process what he's doing. I'll bet you if I recite the same things to other people, I can get the same result.

[Mel Robbins]

And together they decided to cook up a new method of essentially helping people feel better and do better and like, achieve their dreams and stuff without dwelling on the past. They wanted action steps, they wanted forward thinking, they wanted formulas, they wanted cheat codes to happiness and success. So it will come as no surprise that they were also both fans of hypnosis, just like John here. But back to our discussion. I just want to warn you, this was one of the most frustrating, overwhelming, yet utterly mesmerizing interviews I've ever done. What is neuro linguistic programming?

[John James Santangelo]

Well, neuro linguistic programming means neuro, the mind body connection, because we know they're connected and we can't work on one without the other. Then the linguistic part is language. The language that we talk to ourselves like you're doing right now. You're asking questions or making comments in your head and how you communicate with the language with others outside of yourself. And then the programming, it is a process. There are processes, but the programming comes from like a computer. A computer is a blank hard drive until we install software, which is we are programming the computer the same way that we program our children. Children come into the world, we all do with blank hard drives. We're surrounded by our primary caretakers. That's usually your parents or one parent could be your grandparents that brought you up. If you are brought up in a foster care. Right. Those become your primary caretakers. Then they download the their software, their beliefs, their behaviors, their modalities, how they function, how they communicate onto our hard drive.

[Mel Robbins]

Okay, so you're thinking of the brain as we're all born with a blank hard drive. And then tell me where the linguistic programming comes in. Like where does it get?

[John James Santangelo]

Okay, good, good.

[Mel Robbins]

Programmed incorrectly or correctly?

[John James Santangelo]

Well, who decides that?

[Mel Robbins]

What's correct? Yeah, well, I'm a mom, so I.

[John James Santangelo]

Do you as the individual decides if.

[Mel Robbins]

They did it right or they did it wrong.

[John James Santangelo]

Exactly. But when and how? Usually when you run into a block wall or you run into a problem. So we don't really figure out until sometime later on in life. Usually it's probably in your 20s, after you get out of school or college, you start having to live your life, get a job, maybe you're in a committed relationship, whatever that is, and you figure out this is not working for me. So when we get to that stage of figuring out this is not working, what do most people do?

[Mel Robbins]

Go to therapy?

[John James Santangelo]

Some. Most?

[Mel Robbins]

Oh, you asked. Most? I don't know.

[John James Santangelo]

So when we come to the conclusion of things aren't working in our life, we try to fix things ourselves. And a lot of the times how could you know what to do when when all you know is the way that you've been doing it. If you only have one way of making a cake and it completely turns out bad every time, and somebody says you cake sucks, it tastes bad and you go back in to make another cake, but you only know one way to make it, how are you expecting to produce something different?

[Mel Robbins]

Right.

[John James Santangelo]

So that's when most people go to traditional therapy. The co creators of NLP decided if the problem was bad the first time, talking about it over and over and over again isn't going to make it better. So we look at problems like that and go, how can I solve that? And you solve it. What we call a trans derivational search.

[Mel Robbins]

A what?

[John James Santangelo]

Trans derivational search. We go back into a past, we pull up that video of how we did it before, we bring it in front of us and go, ah, that's how I do it. And you do it again, and then you don't get the result. Your brain goes, well, let me go back into the past, see if I can try something else. But everything you've tried doesn't work. You're still looking at the same problem with the solution that you've been dealing with the entire time.

[Mel Robbins]

Okay?

[John James Santangelo]

Now, hopefully, if a good therapist will come along, we'll allow you to come up with a solution. But most people don't. That's why they keep going back to the same therapist year after year after year.

[Hannah Berner]

Hey, guys, it's Hannah from Giggly Squad. You know, I love beauty, and that's why I go to Sephora. It's not just shopping, it's like a glam experience. The beauty advisors actually get beauty, unlike those big box stores. And they give me all the advice I need and love going with the products you can only find at Sephora, like my new favorite Kayali fragrance, my perfect shade of Haus Labs foundation, and finally, restocked my Lineage lip mask, all with the help of real experts. Oh, and if you haven't tried day shampoo, go try it. It's a game changer. Sephora isn't just a store. It's the beauty destination. Go. You'll thank me later.

[Dr. Patrick McGrath]

What if I told you that right now millions of people are living with a debilitating condition that's so misunderstood, many of them don't even know that they have it? That condition is Obsessive compulsive disorder, or OCD. I'm Dr. Patrick McGrath, the chief clinical officer of NOCD. And in the 25 years I've been treating OCD, I've met so many people who are suffering from the condition in silence, unaware of just what it was. OCD can create overwhelming anxiety and fear around what you value most, make you question your identity, beliefs and morals, and drive you to perform mentally and physically draining compulsions or rituals. Over my career, I've seen just how devastating OCD can be when it's left untreated. But help is available. That's where NOCD comes in. NOCD is the world's largest virtual therapy provider for obsessive Compulsive Disorder. Our licensed therapists are trained in exposure And Response Prevention Therapy, a specialized treatment proven to be incredibly effective for OCD. So visit nocd.com to schedule a free 15 minute call with our team. That's nocd.com.

[Mel Robbins]

How does it work? Like what is. Okay, I'll give you your.

[John James Santangelo]

Here it is. So we study what's called modeling, because NLP is about modeling success. And then there's a strategy or recipe or a program that they implemented themselves. Now, usually they don't even know what it is, but we in NLP can model their success by their beliefs, their internal language, and the physiological processes they went through. If I can map those out, then I can take that model now that I have and teach it to somebody else.

[Mel Robbins]

But, like, I don't understand what are.

[John James Santangelo]

You saying to each other? Okay, so our world, our map, is made up of our five senses.

[Mel Robbins]

Okay.

[John James Santangelo]

Okay.

[Mel Robbins]

Yep.

[John James Santangelo]

There are 2 million bits of information coming into our brain every second. Things you're not even aware of. The way your feet feel in your shoe, the way your fingers is touching your eye, your headphones, the taste in your mouth, the things that you're saying, your internal process, you're not aware of those until I bring them up. So those 2 million bits come in, but the brain chunks them down to seven, plus or minus two.

[Mel Robbins]

How do you know that?

[John James Santangelo]

Because there are Studies done. Miller Galantin, 1957 did a study and he said that we can only process seven bits of information at a time. The. The length of a phone number. Coincidence? No. So this information, they didn't always.

[Mel Robbins]

They weren't always.

[John James Santangelo]

I know, I'm. But it's. It's funny how. Coincidence. That's what I said.

[Mel Robbins]

I'm going to jump in here and correct John. It was actually a 1956 paper, not 1957. And there's been some recent scholarship about how beautifully written it was, entertaining and well received. So much so that it might have halted further progress of study into that area for quite some time. In 2015, Nelson Cowan, a professor at the University of Missouri, wrote a paper called George Miller's Magical Number of Immediate Memory in Observations on the Faltering Progression of Science. Why don't you tell us what you really think, Nelson? Well, he does. Here's a quote from the. Though influential in several ways for about 40 years, it was oddly followed by rather little research on the numerical limit capacity in working memory. Given that the article was written in a humorous tone and it was framed around a tongue in cheek premise, I argue that it may have inadvertently stymied progress on these Topics as researchers attempted to avoid ridicule. This commentary relates to some correspondence with Miller on his article and concludes with a call to avoid self censorship of our less conventional ideas. I'll paraphrase from that conclusion. One of the most important constraints that science faces is the restriction of topics that individual scientists pursue. They place these restrictions on themselves because they do not wish to be perceived in a manner that would hurt their careers, discourage funding, or make them seem foolish or laughable. These concerns are not without a basis in reality. And then he gives a long example. It is important for reviewers to try to be open minded to unconventional ideas, albeit without lowering the bar for the requirement of solid evidence. George Miller was a humble man who never would have dreamed that his article would become so important, nor that the entertaining manner in which it was presented might discourage others from pursuing the basic phenomena described within. In other words, Cowan argues that people are either intimidated or convinced enough by Miller's argument that they were like seven bits of information, plus or minus two. Great. Moving on.

[John James Santangelo]

Anyway, okay, so all this information is coming in. You're outside, you're driving your car, whatever it is, talking to your daughter. All this information is coming in. We distill it down to seven pieces, but we have to filter it first. And it's filtered through our beliefs, our decisions, our past, our attitudes, our values and our memories.

[Mel Robbins]

Yeah.

[John James Santangelo]

What shows up on the other side of that is what we call an internal representation.

[Mel Robbins]

Now, I'm gonna give you an example that I understand.

[John James Santangelo]

Yes. I'm gonna give you a word which is. You don't know the word yet. It is outside of you. It is gonna be one of those pieces of information coming in. You're gonna make meaning of it by distilling it and filtering it through all your stuff.

[Mel Robbins]

Okay.

[John James Santangelo]

And then when I point to you, I want you to say the first thing that comes to mind.

[Mel Robbins]

Okay.

[John James Santangelo]

The word is dog.

[Mel Robbins]

Gross.

[John James Santangelo]

Gross. Okay, that's funny because. Not that it doesn't matter, but why?

[Mel Robbins]

I think dogs.

[John James Santangelo]

You don't like dogs? Okay. This event comes in, we filter it. We make some internal representation of what it is. It changes our state, our state of mind. I'll give you an example.

[Mel Robbins]

Now I'm thinking about how gross dogs are.

[John James Santangelo]

Yes. So that changes your internal state. Now I'm going to give you a more complex word.

[Mel Robbins]

Okay.

[John James Santangelo]

Love.

[Mel Robbins]

Hate.

[John James Santangelo]

Now I look at what's funny, audience. I just saw this look on her face and it was an emotional response to hate.

[Mel Robbins]

What was it?

[John James Santangelo]

No, I don't know what it is.

[Mel Robbins]

No, I mean, what was the look? If you could describe you.

[John James Santangelo]

You. All of a sudden, everything got sucked out of you. It just went like that. Like you just did it again. So we have this emotional response, which. Look, he did it again. So the event comes in, you filter it, you get an emotion, it changes.

[Mel Robbins]

Yeah. Then you go.

[John James Santangelo]

Stand up. Stand up. Take a deep breath. Think of your daughter. What's she wearing today? Good. Sit down. There you go. I just changed your state. Okay, so the emotion comes in, it changes our state, changes our physiology, and we behave through that physiology. Like you just did. You went. That's a behavior. This is going on every nanosecond of our experience in life.

[Mel Robbins]

Okay.

[John James Santangelo]

As I communicate. Lights coming in, you're hearing other things. You're talking to yourself. This is all events coming into your mind, filtered through those responses that you had in the past. You get an emotional feeling from it. It changes your physiology, and we behave. That is how we do things.

[Mel Robbins]

So, okay, so had you not had me stand up and think about what the stupid outfit my kid picked out. Had you not had me do that.

[John James Santangelo]

You would have been stuck in that negative state.

[Mel Robbins]

Really?

[John James Santangelo]

Yeah. And you kept.

[Mel Robbins]

I would have been grumpy.

[John James Santangelo]

Yeah. No, not grumpy. You were just like, ugh. I watched you loop through it three times. Now, here's what I meant by the state and physiology are interchangeable. When you feel an emotion, it changes your body, but also when you change your body, it changes your emotion.

[Mel Robbins]

Okay, tell me examples of that.

[John James Santangelo]

What I just had you do. Oh.

[Mel Robbins]

Stand up.

[John James Santangelo]

I said stand up. Think of your daughter. And you all of a sudden started smiling. You threw your shoulders back, your chin went up, you took a deep breath, and all of a sudden, everything went ah. And you got this enlightened feeling.

[Mel Robbins]

Yeah.

[John James Santangelo]

So one of the things Tony Robbins talks about is when you're in a negative state. And there's plenty of words that can represent that negative state. Don't sit in it. Don't dwell in it. Get up and move. That's how easy it is. Do you understand? Here's the problem with life. This is the problem.

[Mel Robbins]

Okay?

[John James Santangelo]

We're not taught how to put ourselves in a good mood. We know how to put ourselves in a bad mood. Just think of something that we don't like or we. That happened in the past or something that's coming up that's going to give us anxiety. All of a sudden, bam. We get the emotion, our physiology changes, and we behave.

[Mel Robbins]

Mm.

[John James Santangelo]

It's sad. It's sad that we're not taught that if you change your body, you can change your state.

[Mel Robbins]

Do I have to be doing this all the time? No.

[John James Santangelo]

No.

[Mel Robbins]

So what is the NLP part? Jesus.

[John James Santangelo]

Because.

[Mel Robbins]

Can we just. I just want you to give me the.

[John James Santangelo]

Let me give you a process.

[Hannah Berner]

Hey, guys, it's Hannah from Giggly Squad. You know, I love beauty, and that's why I go to Sephora. It's not just shopping. It's like a glam experience. The beauty Advis get beauty. Unlike those big box stores and they give me all the advice I need. And I love going with the products you can only find at Sephora, like my new favorite Kayali fragrance, my perfect shade of Haus Labs foundation, and finally restocked my Lineage lip mask, all with the help of real experts. Oh, and if you haven't tried day shampoo, go try it. It's a game changer. Sephora isn't just a store. It's the beauty destination. Go. You'll thank me later.

[Dr. Patrick McGrath]

What if I told you that right now millions of people are living with a debilitating condition that's so misunderstood, many of them don't even know that they have it. That condition is Obsessive compulsive disorder, or OCD. I'm Dr. Patrick McGrath, the chief clinical officer of NOCD. And in the 25 years I've been treating OCD, I've met so many people who were suffering from the condition in silence, unaware of just what it was. OCD can create overwhelming anxiety and fear around what you value most, make you question your identity, beliefs and morals, and drive you to perform mentally and physically draining compulsions or rituals. Over my career, I've seen just how devastating OCD can be when it's left untreated. But help is available. That's where NOCD comes in. NOCD is the world's largest virtual therapy provider for obsessive Compulsive disorder. Our licensed therapists are trained in exposure and response prevention therapy, a specialized treatment proven to be incredibly effective for OCD. So visit nocd.com to schedule a free 15 minute call with our team. That's nocd.com.

[John James Santangelo]

One of the most powerful ways to change your world is to change your internal dialogue.

[Mel Robbins]

Okay?

[John James Santangelo]

Now I'm only going to give you three examples here, but there's how many? Oh, my God. Thousands.

[Mel Robbins]

Okay.

[John James Santangelo]

All right. Because they're just all words, right? Because every word holds power, right? So here's one of the things I teach my students. The first three words, which are very easy because we use them all the time, especially in America, one is called a negation. It's the word. But.

[Mel Robbins]

Okay.

[John James Santangelo]

And I'll give you an example of a negation. A negation is like don't, shouldn't, can't. Instead of using the word. But, God, Jane, I am having so much fun here. But it doesn't matter what comes after that, because your mind only heard the negation, and that's how we normally talk to ourselves. So here's the challenge. We are a nation of negations. And you're going to find, now that I said it, if you're aware and you truly want to make a change in your life, how many times you use the word but in your life, it's horribly bad. It's horribly bad. And it's a negation. God, I just. I want to spend so much time with you, and I love you so much. But it doesn't matter what's said after that. And that's how we communicate.

[Mel Robbins]

Yeah.

[John James Santangelo]

So use a causal linkage. It's called a causal linkage. The word and it presupposes a connection to and of. I really want to spend time with you. I love you so much. And now you're waiting for the next thing.

[Mel Robbins]

The next thing is. And because it's going to support overtime.

[John James Santangelo]

At work, because it's going to support what I just said rather than negate. Does that make sense?

[Mel Robbins]

Yes.

[John James Santangelo]

Okay, so change the word, but use the word. And instead, next word, the word try. Now, here's the. Here's the example I give. So, Jane, try to take the pen.

[Mel Robbins]

John picks up my pen and holds it in his open palm right in front of my face. So I grab it.

[John James Santangelo]

No, no, no, no. You're not listening. I didn't say take the pen. I said try and take the pen. So go ahead, try to take the pen. No, no, no. You're not taking the pen. I didn't say not take the pen. I said try and take the pen. And that's what people do. This third. They go like this, back and forth, back and forth, but you're still not taking the pen. Does that make sense?

[Mel Robbins]

Right?

[John James Santangelo]

You're either taking the pen or you're not taking the pen. There's no try to take the pen, Yoda.

[Mel Robbins]

We're all thinking it. What John's saying here is basically that words matter and have an impact in the physical world. So don't use words that limit what you're capable of doing. Helping people get rid of words without clear meanings, words that won't lead directly to the outcome they're seeking is central to his coaching practice, I think. Okay, so what do I.

[John James Santangelo]

So when we communicate to ourselves and other people, oh, yeah, Jane. Oh, man, I'm really gonna try to make your party on Saturday night.

[Mel Robbins]

No, you're not.

[John James Santangelo]

No, you're not. You know they're not. Right. So. But use the word and try. I will or won't or I can or I cannot be definitive. And the third word, the word problem. Boy, this one's a tough one too. People want to just experience their world as one big problem. And when you. When your unconscious mind is processing that word, it seems insurmountable. Okay, change the word to challenge. That was the very first one that my instructor said to me. He goes, I'm going to challenge you to use the word challenge from now on instead of problem. I'm like, this sucks. I went back the next week because it's a six weekend course. I'm like, that's hard. He goes, yeah, because you're fighting your unconscious mind.

[Mel Robbins]

You're programming.

[John James Santangelo]

Yes.

[Mel Robbins]

John works with business leaders, people who want to better communicate with their teams or colleagues or prospects. And he's also a life coach with individuals who want to improve their mindset, get ahead in life, stop getting in their own way. It's been really hard not to call his methods and NLP in general how to get what you want by manipulating yourself and everyone around you. But I really like John, so don't tell him I said that. Did you just hypnotize me in any way?

[John James Santangelo]

Not necessarily.

[Mel Robbins]

Say more.

[John James Santangelo]

Well, I'm trying to condition you. Whenever we're in a positive, emotional wonderful state, do we ever look outside of ourselves and go, boy, I wish this was even bigger and brighter? No. The answer is no.

[Mel Robbins]

Probably not.

[John James Santangelo]

Because we're inside, we're enjoying it.

[Mel Robbins]

Yeah.

[John James Santangelo]

We just. We want to bathe ourselves in those emotions. They're so wonderful. That's what life is about. That is all that life is about. That's it.

[Mel Robbins]

Wait, here's a question.

[John James Santangelo]

Yes.

[Mel Robbins]

When I'm in the most positive, happy thing, I literally the first. And tell me why I do this and what's wrong with me.

[John James Santangelo]

No, nothing wrong with you.

[Mel Robbins]

I think kill me now.

[John James Santangelo]

Okay. That's what you're in a positive state. And you say, kill me now.

[Mel Robbins]

Like, die now.

[John James Santangelo]

Oh, yeah. Because that's where you want to end up. There.

[Mel Robbins]

Yeah, I just want to be done. Like, I don't.

[John James Santangelo]

I'm gonna choke. You don't use those words. Your unconscious mind is always Listening. And it takes everything literally and personally. Oh, you know, I'm gonna kill myself.

[Mel Robbins]

No, no, I don't want to kill myself. But, like, when I'm in a. Really, don't use the words I think. Like, kill me now.

[John James Santangelo]

Like, let me. No, don't say those. Would you tell your daughter to say that? No. No. Then why would you tell yourself and your unconscious mind to say that to yourself?

[Mel Robbins]

I don't know. I call myself an idiot 30 times a day. I do.

[John James Santangelo]

Your unconscious mind is always listening.

[Mel Robbins]

Okay.

[John James Santangelo]

It takes everything literally and personal.

[Mel Robbins]

Before he left, John James Santangelo, who used to be a professional magician, had one last thing to show me.

[John James Santangelo]

Watch this. Some people actually think this is real. Like, you saw me pick this up.

[Mel Robbins]

The pen?

[John James Santangelo]

Yeah.

[Mel Robbins]

Oh, yeah. Now we're sitting at a table about three feet away from each other, longer than arm's length. On his side, there's a bottle of water on a coaster. On my side, there's a bottle of water on a coaster. And I have my pen and notepad right in front of me because I was using them. He stood up a bit, reached over and grabbed my pen.

[John James Santangelo]

Now you think it's real?

[Mel Robbins]

It is.

[John James Santangelo]

No, it's not.

[Mel Robbins]

What?

[John James Santangelo]

Because if I take it right and I say it's not real. Because if it was real, I couldn't do this. Or I couldn't do this. And I couldn't do this.

[Mel Robbins]

Oh, my God. So then now the pen was in his hands, and then it disappeared.

[John James Santangelo]

See, if I said, it's not there, it's under here. You'd be like, wow.

[Mel Robbins]

And then it reappeared under the notebook. I was using my pen. My notebook.

[John James Santangelo]

But that's what life is about. Impossibility.

[Mel Robbins]

That was creepy.

[John James Santangelo]

Thanks. Good word. Not entertained. That was creepy.

[Mel Robbins]

It was. When this interview was over and John left, we in the office were in a complete daze. You know, like when you go see a matinee starring Dwayne the Rock Johnson, and afterwards, you walk out of the theater and into the peaceful daylight and you're totally disoriented. It felt itchy and confusing and intense. And maybe that's the whole point. I wonder how much that feeling, the feeling that something not sure what, but something happened, gets confused with NLP quote working. You know what I mean? Maybe a little placebo effect's going on. I felt fired up and discombobulated. And I'm sure in that state, if John were like, hey, want to sign up for another session? If he was my life coach, I would just be like, yeah, let's get to the bottom of this, dude. That's it for this week. We have a tip line open. Call us at 323-2481-488-323-2481, and leave us a message about anything that you think is funky out there. Talk to me.

[John James Santangelo]

I can't tell you how often I hear, oh, I'm a little ocd. I like things neat. That's not ocd. I'm Howie Mandel and I know this because I have ocd. Actual OCD causes relentless, unwanted thoughts. What if I did something terrible and forgot? What if I'm a bad person? Why am I thinking this terrible thing? It makes you question absolutely everything and you'll do anything to feel better. OCD is debilitating, but it's also highly treatable with the right kind of therapy. Regular talk therapy doesn't cut it. OCD needs specialized therapy. That's why I want to tell you about NO cd. NOCD is the world's largest virtual therapy provider for ocd. Their licensed therapists provide specialized therapy virtually and it's covered by insurance for over 155 million Americans. If you think you might be struggling with OCD, visit nocd.com to schedule a free 15 minute call and learn more. That's n o c d dot com.

[Hannah Berner]

Hey, guys, it's Hannah from Giggly Squad. You know, I love beauty and that's why I go to Sephora. It's not just shopping, it's like a glam experience. The beauty advisors actually get beauty, unlike those big box stores and they give me all the advice I need. And I love going with the products you can only find at Sephora. Like my new favorite Kayali Fragran, my perfect shade of Haus Labs foundation. And finally, restocked my laneige Lip mask. All with the help of real experts. Oh, and if you haven't tried day shampoo, go try it. It's a game changer. Sephora isn't just a store. It's the beauty destination. Go. You'll thank me later.

[Mel Robbins]

When you're ordering food for your workplace, are you still using a spreadsheet? Not with EasyCater. The online platform for ordering and managing food for the workplace. Come on, manually inputting lunch requests in all those little boxes? You don't need that kind of sheet in your life. EasyCater was built for business. It's simple, smart, and way more powerful than the old sheet you're used to. So drop the sheet and go with EasyCator. The Easy Place to get food for your workplace. Order [e-mail].