← The Drop the Needle Podcast
The Drop the Needle Podcast
Ep. 49 - The Code We Live By: LAPD Stories, Freemasonry & Music with Raymond Foster
00:56:59
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- [00:00]
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- [01:31]
Jim Alstott
Welcome to the Drop the Needle Podcast, your backstage pass to the mystical realm. I'm your host, Jim Alstatt, and here gifted souls step up to the mic, sharing their spiritual journey. We're hitting the high notes in the low notes of their awakening, creating a symphony of enlightenment. This isn't just another interview show. This is where divine insights are channeled and universal truths are revealed. So crank up your stereo and sit back because who knows, this just might help you compose the next transformative chapter of your soul's purpose. Are you ready? Let's go. Hi everyone. Welcome to the Drop the Needle Podcast. I'm your host, Jim Alstott, and I'm so happy you all decided to join us today. We have a truly fascinating guest with us. Joining the show is Raymond Foster. Raymond's a retired LAPD lieutenant and seasoned criminal justice consultant. But beyond his notable career in law enforcement, Raymond's an accomplished author of several books, including the latest, the Temple Within. Ladies and gentlemen, without further ado, please welcome Raymond Foster. Welcome, Raymond.
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Raymond Foster
Thank you, Jim. I'm Seriously pleased to be here.
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Jim Alstott
I am so happy you were able to make this work with your schedule because I know it's kind of a crazy schedule. And one of the things that in our pre show meeting we talked about was your ties to the Masonic Temple. Right? So I want to go into that a little bit, but before we do, if you could please tell everyone a little bit about your background. I know I mentioned some of those things, but I want folks to hear it from you.
- [03:18]
Raymond Foster
So I'm a native Californian and I was born in Long beach and I went to the Coast Guard. I enlisted when I was 16 years old, went to boot camp when I was 17. At the age of 21, I joined the police department. In fact, I got an academy class. And they called in February of 1980 and they called me the night before on a Sunday and they said, hey, we're looking at our records. Is it true that you're not 21 yet? And I go, well, no, I'm not 21 till next month. And they said, well, you can't be a police officer. So I actually had to, I had to be delayed six weeks. And I got a call Friday night, Friday night before the Monday the 20th in April. And the guy says, you know, he says, we don't have a place for you in the police academy. He was just show up, somebody will quit that first day and you can have their job. And so I showed up and I was number 101. And the drill instructor said, well, who are you? And I said, well, I've been told to show up because somebody's going to quit. He just looked at me, he goes, okay. And at noon I hear the loudspeaker calling my name because somebody quit at lunch. And I was in. So that's. That began at a nearly 25 year career. I retired from the police department when about the same time my first textbook came out and I went to teach at university. I spent some time teaching and continued to write. And then I got into consulting and I did some overseas consulting and a lot with the federal government and small municipal agencies around the country and continued to write and ultimately would retire really a third time. And so I find myself now in a virtual worldwide book tour for my last two books. The one that we're focused on. The Temple within is my eighth book released in August. So I am a Freemason. I am also the chair of the board of directors for our Chamber of Commerce, president of our Rotary foundation, executive secretary of our Rotary Club, the past master of the Masonic Lodge, the current officers coach. I teach the ritual and my wife says if I join anything else, it better be the French Foreign Legion.
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Jim Alstott
I was like, how in the world do you have all the time to do those things? I bet you're busy as I'll get out.
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Raymond Foster
I have five children and six grandchildren, so. Yeah, yeah, busy.
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Jim Alstott
It sounds like it. It sounds like it. So if you're okay with this, I'd like to dive into a couple of the different things that you mentioned. Number one, let's start with the lapd. Yeah, I'd like to know if you have any strange stories or memorable stories that you're free to talk about that you might be able to share with us.
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Raymond Foster
Well, you know, it's so hard to go back. The reason it's hard to go back is number one, I retired 22 years ago. So policing has changed significantly over two decades. And so some of the things that I talk about it really was more the wild west. And we were coming out of a, a different time in law enforcement. I was a police officer in the, in the height of the crack cocaine wars. And so this is when there was in Los Angeles there was a homicide every night. There were multiple shootings. My last night I was the watch commander in 77th Division. And right out of roll call in the graveyard shift I had to was on my way to a homicide and then I got diverted to a pursuit that ended with an officer involved shooting. And then I had to go back to another drive by shooting where there was another homic side. So within two hours I had been to three shootings and just as the watch commander, holy cow. And seen two and a half dead body. So it was a different time than it is now. It's nowhere near the violent level of violence is nowhere near what it was. So the one story I do tell though is I probably still hold the record and I'm not certain, but I don't and I don't know. But we, we had a car chase and as the primary unit, the guy in the chase right behind the suspect the entire time it went, it went 104 miles in 57 minutes. So a little bit of math there and tells you the average land speed was pretty fast. And my partner that night, I was what was called a primary trainer. So I got the recruits their first two, two months out of the academy. It was his second day and at the time he had a new kind of vest that was ceramic. So it was big and bulky. It was before the technology caught up with it. His Wife made him wear it and it was huge on him. And he, and we called him the Turtle. You know, within 24 hours he earned a nickname, the Turtle. And I told him, don't fall down backwards in some water, you'll drown. And so we're standing at the corner of 39th and Western and. And this lady is screaming at me. She's screaming at me in a scene that is some kind of domestic dispute. And I'm. I'm listening as she screams. And she's not angry at me, but she's angry. So her voice is up and it's like 2:30 in the morning. And I look over my shoulder and I hear the radio on my hip talking about a 211 GTA. Now 211 is the penal code sex for robbery in GTA's Grand Theft Auto, you'd call that the day a carjacking. And it says two male blacks with baseball caps. And then look at, there's this car stop that they're waiting for the light. And what's unusual is they've got the windows down and she's screaming at me, but these two guys are looking straight ahead, they're not looking at me. And they're basically baseball caps on. And it says red Ford Taurus. And I go, that's a red Ford Taurus, it says with paper plates from Coley Ford. And I looked down. Oh, yeah, yep, that's got. And they had. They'd use a shotgun. And I tell her, I said, hey, ma', am, we're going to be back. I never did go back. We get in behind him, off, we're off to the races. And this goes all the way down the 5 freeway to Camp Pendleton, the Marine Corps bay, so far down that the military police got alongside me on the way back north and waving at us. It went so far that the helicopter actually had to divert to another airport because it ran out of fuel.
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Jim Alstott
Oh my gosh.
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Raymond Foster
And then at one time, at some point we get off the freeway on the way back and we're the only ones behind this guy. And they're saying on the radio that the sheriffs are going to terminate the pursuit at something like Imperial Alameda. I don't even, I'm thinking, I don't even know what that means. And they say that about the time that I go flying through the. Literally flying through the intersection and I see all these sheriffs leaned over their cars with shotguns. I think they were going to shoot the cars. Everything went by too fast. And so we're finally Going down Alameda real fast, and he makes a left turn onto a side street. And I go to make that left turn and I lose control of the car and I go into a four wheel lock skid. And all I can see is this telephone pole getting bigger and bigger and bigger. I said to myself, the only thing I remember from driver training is you can't brake and steer at the same time because once you lose traction, you're not steering any longer, right? So I got my foot off the brake and I steered through, up onto the, through a. Up a parking or up a driveway, into a dirt lot, down the dirt lot, back onto the side street. And I was so far ahead of everyone else, one of the cops at the end of the thing comes up behind me, goes, hey, why'd we go through that dirt lot? All they saw was the dirt, you know, the dirt, dust in the air. They all went. They all turned in that. Yeah, because they didn't know what had happened. And when we got up to the next intersection, they were gone. And I looked and I go, well, I remember when we got off the freeway the first time, this is before this, the dirt lot thing. I turned to the probationer and I said, hey, look, we've been chasing these guys 50 minutes, man. I'm going to catch them. And whatever they're going to do, I'm going to do. So if you got a maker you want to get right with, now's the time, because I'm not going to stop.
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Jim Alstott
The crap out of them.
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Raymond Foster
It did, I'm sure. And at any rate, I. As we come to this intersection, they're gone. I look both ways, I go, man, I don't know which way they went. I went south and I saw them at the, I saw their tail lights at the next intersection. Caught up with them. They pulled over in front of their grandmother's house.
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Jim Alstott
Oh, my.
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Raymond Foster
And I, I was talking to him later, and one kid said, look, officer, we got down there to the middle of nowhere and we knew you were going to kill us. And so we went home where there was witnesses. So they went the last, the last half of the trip, they were just trying to get home. And so that was the next day. My right leg, my, My quad hurt because I'd been pushing on the gas pedals so long in that extended position. I talked to a couple of race car drivers and later, and they said, oh, yeah, you just were, you were pressing on the gas for an hour. What do you expect?
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Jim Alstott
Oh, my God.
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Raymond Foster
So that's a long time ago. That's almost probably 40 years ago now.
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Jim Alstott
Holy cow, that story, that's bananas. I mean, that is totally crazy.
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Raymond Foster
Yeah. And that's a mild story, by the way.
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Jim Alstott
You know what, I'm sure it is, but that was a good one. Thank you for sharing that. That's awesome. I appreciate that. Well, I'd like to, to move on to something that's obviously more recent for you and that's the Masonic. Well, fraternity or clandestine organization, and I don't know which you. You call that.
- [13:34]
Raymond Foster
That's our fault. You know, we're. The Masonic Lodge is a, is a. The Freemasons is a secret society. We think of ourselves more of a fraternity with secrets rather than a secret society because there's no secret about it. We got these huge buildings everywhere, right? We have, if you look on the Internet, man, there's books everywhere. There's like a million billion YouTube videos. Most of them are wrong, but that's what secrecy breeds. Secrecy breeds misinformation. Gives you, gives people a space that they can make whatever up they want to. And that's really part of the temple within. And when I wrote this book, that's one of the things I struggled with, you know, and I talk about this in the introduction, is that I have an obligation. I took an oath not to divulge secrets. And so what I decided to do was that anything that had been previously discussed by a Masonic scholar, and I think you can. And Ms. Macey, we can define those couple of dozen men who are Masonic scholars. If it's been printed and talked about before, then talking about it's open source already. If it was because much of our ritual derives itself from biblical passages. The Bible of course is open source. So you'll, you know, there's a chapter on the Book of Ruth and it begins by telling you if you're non Mason, you're not going to know why we're talking about this specifically, but you can still get a lot from the lessons within this chapter that I'm going to talk about. And so we are a society with secrets. And I will tell you that really the only things that are secret are our modes of recognition. We have, we have handshakes and passwords, right? And the words, the ritual, the themselves. And there's again, there's a chapter in the book where I talk about why secrecy is important to us. So we are a society with secrets. But I think we're Freemasons and we are fraternity. I don't know what else. I don't know how else to describe us. Hmm.
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Jim Alstott
So I was reading somewhere when I was researching for the show about. Is it Yale University that has the skull and crossbones? Is that the. The university where there is some correlation? I'm sorry.
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Raymond Foster
Well, it's. Whichever one that. That the Bushes went to, I know that they're a member of Skull and Crossbones. It could. I think it could be Yale or Harvard. I'm not certain which it is. There are. You know, it could be.
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Jim Alstott
Yeah.
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Raymond Foster
There are a great many secret societies in Mace. And with Freemasonry we have what we call appendant and concordant bodies. And these are officially recognized bodies such as Scottish Rite, the York Rite, the Shriners, Eastern Star, Demolay, Rainbow Girls.
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Jim Alstott
Daughters, younger men. Right, okay.
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Raymond Foster
Yeah. And people like Bill Clinton, Walt Disney, Neil Armstrong. They were all members of De Molay. And by the way, those are members of De Molay who did not go on to be Freemasons. There are lots of members of de Malay who go on to be Freemasons. And yeah, the two men that landed on the moon, Buzz Aldrin was a Freemason. As a matter of fact, he drew the square encompass in the lunar dust and had permission from the Grand Lodge of Texas to open lodge on the moon. And Buzz Aldrin. Buzz Aldrin was a Mason. Neil A.R. strong was a senior dean. He was not a Mason. Okay. So you know lots of men. George Washington, Benjamin Franklin, John Hancock, you know, Douglas MacArthur can go through Mozart, Descartes. There's lots of men in history who have been Freemasons. So I'm just one in a long line of men who've joined the fraternity.
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Jim Alstott
That's very cool. I. So what I was. The reason I brought up the Skull and Crossbones is that in. Believe me, I was digging around a little bit because knowing that we were going to be able to talk about this, I thought it was important because you're right when it comes to secret organizations. And I myself am in a fraternity still, and I consider myself to be still a. A part of that fraternal organization, even though I'm not an active member any longer because I don't attend the university. But with that, there is a lot of misinformation that's out there. So I guess hopefully in our time together, we'll be able to dispel some of that. And one of them was the Skull and Crossbones. Because there was. What I had read was there was a correlation between the Masonic rite and the Skull and Crossbones. Like how it started and then the other thing that I picked up was the skull and crossbones insignia or emblem is also the same. That is the Jolly Roger from pirating. And so some. I forget where. Well, it was all online, right, because there's so much out there. But there was a discussion about pirates being masons too and how that's how they, they came up with that because it was the skull and crossbones and they put it on their flag and they raised the flag and black members or African American members in different societies, that's sprung off of that. But what about the pirate thing? I guess I'm, I'm curious about that. Having seen that, I was like, you got to be kidding me.
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Raymond Foster
So, you know, here's. I was gonna. I want to make sure I get the facts right on this. I'm pretty sure I do. You know, the Hakan cross, the hooked cross, the Nazi emblem, the swastika is an ancient Hindu symbol, but the Hindus, they weren't Nazis, right. It's the co opted symbol. And so yeah, the skull and crossbones. I can't speak to their secret society. I will tell you that in the current. Freemasonry has been around since 1717 in its current form as a formal organization. We can trace its, its history as it transitions from operative guilds of stonemasons back as far as the 14th century pretty clearly with documents. And we can see that they were allowing non Masons into their groups. And there was reasons for that. And so this is, we've got a. This society is pretty old. It is. To say it's ancient is not too, too far off. And so lots of people have copied it. They've copied some of the ritual, the ideas and they've co opted symbols. You know, the masons don't use the skull and crossbones necessarily, but we do use some, some versions in some degrees use the skull in what's called in for reflection, for a man to reflect. And you know, that's actually some ancient Catholic writings too. Because if you look at a skull, you ever looked at a skull, it looks like it's smiling.
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Jim Alstott
Yes.
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Raymond Foster
And you know, that's, you know, it's happy in death, it's happy at what it's done, it's happy where it is, it's happy in eternity. And this is one of the things, it's just a symbol that's been co opted. So there is no connection between Freemasons and pirates. I wish there was.
- [21:18]
Jim Alstott
Back to Blackbeard, Long John Silver, you know.
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Raymond Foster
Well, now that doesn't mean that some pirates weren't Freemasons. They could have been. I mean, right? It's very, you know, and when you. The, the, the idea. Now I will say, I could say almost definitively that there were privateers who were freemasons.
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Jim Alstott
Okay.
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Raymond Foster
Because privateers, especially during the, what, the 15, 18 years that the French and the English were going at it during what we call the Napoleonic wars, Privateers on both sides of the channel. And ma Masonry was on both sides of the channel. And so the fact that they were privateers, Masons who became private. Sure, of course. That just makes sense.
- [22:00]
Jim Alstott
Yeah, it stands to reason.
- [22:01]
Kerrygold Announcer
Right?
- [22:03]
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- [23:03]
Raymond Foster
What do you think makes the perfect snack?
- [23:05]
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Hmm, it's gotta be when I'm really craving it and it's convenient.
- [23:08]
Raymond Foster
Could you be more specific?
- [23:09]
AMPM Announcer
When it's cravinient.
- [23:11]
Raymond Foster
Okay.
- [23:11]
AMPM Announcer
Like a freshly baked cookie made with real butter, available right down the street at am, pm. Or a savory breakfast sandwich I can grab in just a second at am, pm.
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Raymond Foster
I'm seeing a pattern here.
- [23:20]
AMPM Announcer
Well, yeah, we're talking about what I.
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Raymond Foster
Crave, which is anything from am, pm.
- [23:24]
AMPM Announcer
What more could you want? Stop by AMPM where the snacks and drinks are perfectly craveable and convenient. That's craving Ian PM too much good stuff.
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Raymond Foster
So. But no, there's in the skull and crossbones. I don't know. We would call that a masonry. We'd call that A clandestine organization, not one we're related to. And we're not allowed. We are prohibited by our Grand Lodge from talking. There's a big book that says who you can talk to and who you can't talk to. Because there are people who call themselves Freemasons that we don't recognize as truly being Freemasons.
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Jim Alstott
Well, what's the differentiating factor between if someone were to say, hey, I'm a Freemason versus no, you're not, type of thing?
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Raymond Foster
Well, I think a Freemason would just walk away from them. Wouldn't say, no, you're not. But. Okay.
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Jim Alstott
Well, right. For our discussion, we have.
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Raymond Foster
Sure. We have a lineage. So the Grand Lodge of York in the Grand Lodge of London, in the early part of the 18th century, the English are colonizing around the world. And around 1730, when they're colonizing the United States, what will become the United States? Some men in Philadelphia petition the Grand Lodge, I believe, of York to form the Grand Lodge of Philadelphia, which Benjamin Franklin become the Grand Master. Along the way, the Grand Lodge of Philadelphia would give what's called a dispensation to other lodges. Like, I think he gave one to Missouri. You could. You could transfer these. You could trace these right back. Missouri will give one to California when it's forming up as a state. California will form a Grand Lodge. It gives a dispensation to my Lodge to form a lodge. So there's a. There's a lineage that traces them back all the way to the formation of the first Grand Lodge in London in 1717. And so we recognized those. Now there are. Every once in a while a lodge will go sideways and do something that we don't recognize, whether it's hazing or something like that. One of the biggest controversies that was in Freemasonry was homosexuality. So there are two lodges in the United States that. Two Grand Lodges that won't allow gay men. And so because of that, for. I don't know if we still don't have community, we call it not having communication. We don't have communication, the California Grand Lodge, with those two lodges because of that issue. And so there are lots of openly gay men in California. I don't know about other states. I really can't speak to them. So they're. There are other groups out there that claim to be Masonic. There was a guy going around. He was. He called himself the Masonic Chief of Police. And he actually was in a uniform with a badge and a gun. He would show up. He would show up at police Agencies and get interviews with the chief of police because he was so convincing. So there are lots of.
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Jim Alstott
And never arrested for.
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Raymond Foster
He never was. Wow. I think he died. He died of a heart attack or something. It was really fast. A fantastic story of. Of bluff, I guess. But yeah. So there are organizations that I wouldn't recognize as Freemasons.
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Jim Alstott
Gotcha. You know, you were talking about hazing and that was one of the things that they had brought up in some of the things that I was reading. They were talking about goats and. And I'm like what like they're bringing in. Well, like a goat being part of the process. And here's the reason why some of it I give a side eye. I think I even mentioned when we were on our pre show call, my family was involved with Eastern Star, the Masonic Temple, Scottish Rite, Oriental Shrine. So like my grandfather went through to the 33rd degree. Is it 33rd degree? Is that what it's. 32nd degree.
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Raymond Foster
That's an honor. 32nd, 33rd is honorary. He could have been a 33rd degree mace. Sure.
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Jim Alstott
Yeah. So. And that was one of the things that they were talking about too where there was some statue or something that they. It was almost like a Bacchus statue that they had to kiss the rump of Bacchus statue or something. Like I went for. I can't see my grandfather doing that first of all, you know, but. And then again I'll circle back to the. Yeah. When you're not talking about something, all of a sudden everything's free game. Right. Yeah, I can. Yeah. They bring down aliens and you know all this other stuff. But yeah, it was, it was very interesting too that. So with those different levels, as I understand it, there are really only three levels of the massage graduation steps or something or ascending.
- [28:49]
Raymond Foster
Yeah, there's only three degrees in Masonry. First, second, third, entered apprentice, entered apprentice, fellow craft and Master Mason. Now these other degrees given to the. These other bodies, both Scottish Rite and York Rite are efforts to further explain the third degree of Masonry. In reality, they give other moral lessons to the men, but they are not every Mason. Every member of the York Rite and the Scottish Rite is a Master Mason with three degrees from a Blue Lodge. So you can't get into York Rite or Scottish Rite or the Shriners unless you are a Master Mason. So there. It used to be that.
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Kerrygold Announcer
The.
- [29:33]
Raymond Foster
It used to be that you had to do what was called a Master Mason's proficiency, which is to memorize a very pretty long passage of the third degree before you could apply to either The Scottish Rite or York Rite, they dropped that requirement. And now we see in many lodges, the day a man is raised to the Master Mason, somebody puts an application in his hand. I think that that deludes the whole thing, but that's just my opinion. And the same with the Shriners, in fact, used to have to be part of Scottish Rite to become a Shriner. I know a guy who just joined the Shrine and he's not a member of the Scottish Rite at all. So these rules change for these other organizations.
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Jim Alstott
But were they recognized then or no?
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Raymond Foster
Yeah, they're appended and concordant bodies. They're what we call. Yes, they are recognized by us, but, you know, they're three degrees of mastery. That's it. These are other. These are extra degrees that. Where a man's learned something. I'm a York Rite Mason now. The difference between Scottish Rite and York Rite, York Rite is probably more properly called the American Rite. But the Scottish Rite is non sectarian. The York Rite is a Christian degree. Okay, thank you. And that has been watered down in the last decade or so a little bit. It used to be that a man would swear that he would defend Christianity. Now I think it's the right. You would defend a man's right to be a Christian or something like that. So it's changed a little bit in his nature to attract more men. Because as organizations shrink, they do things to try to survive. And so personally, I think if they shrink to where they're no longer useful, they should be gotten rid of. Yeah, that's what I think.
- [31:21]
Jim Alstott
Well, I mean, I guess there's some truth to that, but there's also that, that history and that lineage that, you know, 17. 17 and that. That's a while, you know, been around a while. So I get, I. Let's put it this way. I understand exactly why there would be the effort that would be put into that to, to salvage it or to save it, to keep it going after that, that amount of time. You would have to feel an obligation to do that on some level.
- [31:55]
Raymond Foster
I think it survives and it will continue to survive because it's useful, because it's valuable. The men who become freemasons, and even if you don't delve into the more esoteric parts of it and you don't explore the wisdom as much as you could, just living by the principal tenets of the organization and belonging to it will make you a better man and therefore probably more effective in society. And as long as last night, it was a Thursday night at our lodge, was A social night. And there were three men there who were interested in joining Masonry. Because what we do is we have a social every Thursday, and we give tours, a lodge, and we don't invite men. We don't ask them to become Masons, but we open the door and allow them to ask questions. And so we still see men. And two of the three were younger. They were in their. They were in their late 20s, early 30s. That's good. That's what we want to see.
- [32:51]
Jim Alstott
Right.
- [32:52]
Raymond Foster
And so I think that. I think that masonry is going to become more relevant. Part of the temple, within part of the reason I wrote the book. And I. And I thought the timing is good. I think that there's going to be a renaissance in masonry. I think that young men under the age of 35 or so are seeking belonging, they are seeking guidance. They are seeking a place where they can fulfill who they should be. And I think. Think Freemasonry is a good path for them. And I think that it's. It's. It's ready for a renaissance. Okay.
- [33:24]
Jim Alstott
No, I can see that, you know, times do change, and you either change with it or sometimes you just go away or it dissolves because it's no longer relevant. But I. I think what you're talking about with leadership, mentorship, different things of that nature, that's. That's always there. And I would agree with you in terms of the timing. Right. Especially today, it seems like there is a need for something like that, some mentorship, some sense of belonging that.
- [34:08]
Raymond Foster
You.
- [34:08]
Jim Alstott
Know, more so for whatever reason, in society. And that could be a whole other podcast as to what's going on around us. But if. If we could. I want to ask a couple more questions on this, and then I do want to talk about music, because I know you're a musician, so I want to. Want to talk a little bit about that. The symbols that are used now, oftentimes the Eastern star, because I remember seeing this in the middle of the floor. It looks like a pentagram. I didn't even know what a pentagram was when I was, you know, following along with my parents that would go to this. I go, oh, look, there's the star. Cool colors, you know, that sort of thing. And then, of course, the compass and square, that makes it like an. A type of thing. Can. Can we talk about those a little bit? In the misinformation, I suppose that's out there.
- [35:11]
Raymond Foster
Yeah. These are the compasses. Square are the real traditional things. Everybody knows about Freemasonry. They see that symbol Looks like kind of like two triangles on each other upside down, one pointy with a point down and one with a point up. And so that's a very ancient symbol itself. It's an alchemy. From alchemy, we see that most prevalent alchemy, and it refers to as above, so below, or as in the spiritual world, so in the physical world. It tells us to. As we look up, it also tells us, as we look up, to the great architect of the universe. He is looking down at us. And so there is a continuous communication between the spiritual and the physical realms. It also. These are two tools, the square and the compass, that teach moral lessons that a man can use. And the funny thing about these lessons is that they're like all parables. There's a surface lesson, and then if you scrape it off and you scrape the surface, you see something deeper and deeper and deeper. And the square is a. Both the square. I read an article the other day last night, people talking about the circle and how the circle is. In fact, I wrote it. I did a series of seven videos on the ancient symbolism of the circle. I've done. Four have been released. I got three sitting here in the box because the circle is such an ancient thing. And I read this article where somebody said, well, the compass which draws circles is a divine instrument, whereas the square is a physical instrument. Well, I mean, if you think of it that way, because the compass is the one that's on top of the square, I suppose that the divine could be on top. But, you know, the compass can draw the circumference of all circles. It has an infinite nature to it that way. But the square which judges right angles or tells us what a right angle is, it can judge all right angles. It can infinite number of right angles that it can produce. Therefore it too is infinite. And so they're both divine instruments. Right, in that instance.
- [37:18]
Jim Alstott
Right.
- [37:19]
Raymond Foster
And the square, a mason's told, is to square his actions by the square virtue. And so what that means is if you were to take the four cardinal virtues, and if any of your action falls can be supported by two, you know, like a right angle, it's probably a virtuous action. If it's both, if it's both prudent and expresses fortitude, that's probably a good thing to do. The most important thing is we. Now, if you.
- [37:46]
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- [38:46]
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- [39:24]
Raymond Foster
Layer it away or Take escape another layer. They seem more practical, right? But if you just sit and you think about the nature of the infinite and Does a circle represent the infinite? It has no beginning and has no end. How is that possible? Now? It helps us with contemplation. And so contemplation on these questions is the most important part. You know, thinking through what we actually believe and what we stand for, that's what inculcates that into us. So that's a number of ways that these things can be used. Does that help you?
- [40:04]
Jim Alstott
Absolutely. And I appreciate you sharing that. So now I do know the story. You're a brass player, correct?
- [40:16]
Raymond Foster
I do, Yes, I have.
- [40:19]
Jim Alstott
Okay, so you had mentioned a story about when you were in the in basic training. Can you share that One, because it's a great story.
- [40:30]
Raymond Foster
So on the third, it's the third day of boot camp and the chief petty officer, it might have been a first class petty officer, I don't know. He's walking down the line, he's the DI and he says, anybody here play a musical instrument? Look. Now, my dad told me not to volunteer for anything, but this sounds all right. So I put my hand up and he goes, we'll go with this guy. So this other petty officer takes me down to a band room and there is a chief petty officer in the band room. And he goes, are you, what do you play? I go, well, anything. Brass mostly. A trumpet. And he said, well, here's a trumpet, here's music, play it. I said, okay, I play it. He goes, you're in the band. I go, okay, go with this guy sends me with another guy to a tailor. That's the third day of boot camp. And this tailor tailors, sews and puts on me a class A uniform, a dress uniform. He goes, then they take me down to the band room where there's a bunch of other guys there. They hand me a horn and put me on a bus and take me to Candlestick park where I play the Star Spangled Banner to Giants game. It's like the third day of boot camp. And then every weekend we would go. Oh my God. We would go up and down the. All as far as Seattle, Washington from San Francisco and then all throughout the state by bus and be it parades or at opening ceremonies or. And we did. We basically had three songs. We had the Star Spangled Banner, Semper Paradis, which is the Coast Guard hymn, and God Bless America. And that was it. Three songs we played.
- [42:02]
Jim Alstott
You play the hell out of those.
- [42:04]
Raymond Foster
Yeah, it's like, it's like you're like any other musician. And so. And we did funerals. As a trumpet player, I did lots of funerals. And that's when I would go out the honor garden. They'd have the six guys with the rifles, the guys with the flags, and I'd be the horn player and we'd be sitting in the waiting and waiting and somebody would infinitely go. Ashes to ashes, dust to dust, let's bury this sucker and get on the bus. We are pretty. Well, you know, you're, you're what, 8, 17, 18 years old and you're, you're immortal at that point. So.
- [42:39]
Jim Alstott
Right.
- [42:39]
Raymond Foster
You know, that's just some unlucky sob, right? That's not going to happen to you.
- [42:43]
Jim Alstott
Yeah, some 40 year old guy.
- [42:46]
Raymond Foster
That's right. He's ancient. Yeah. Now you look back on it, I told my wife, I said, you know, I'm transitioning from. Wow. He, you know, he lived a long life to God. That's not. No, that's not. That's not enough.
- [43:00]
Jim Alstott
Right, right. It just seems like. Well, you know, I think no truer words were said. Whoever came up with, if I would have known I was going to live this long, I would have treated myself better.
- [43:13]
Raymond Foster
Oh, my gosh. I was at the. We have two Masonic homes. These are where the brothers and widows live. One here locally. And I was in one of the lounges where they have coffee and cookies. And we were waiting for an event to start. And one of the. All the men were upset. They were all upset that Bob had died. Bob had died. And they were just talking about putting Good Guy Bob was. Bob had died. So finally it turned him. I go, so how old was Bob? And he goes, he was 98. Oh, my gosh. Yeah. I said, when, you know, when you're 98, it's like when you wake up and go, hey, Bob's still here. That's the surprising part. Right.
- [43:54]
Jim Alstott
You have a parade.
- [43:55]
Raymond Foster
But, you know, their perspective of being in their 80s and late 80s and 90s is that, you know, Bob is their peer. And so as you owe. As you age, your perspective definitely changes. And so that's. Bob had died. I thought, that's funny.
- [44:12]
Airalo Announcer
Oh, That's.
- [44:13]
Jim Alstott
Yeah, that. 98. How old was Bob? 98. Okay, moving on. That's good stuff, man. That is really good stuff. So do you still play or.
- [44:26]
Raymond Foster
No. You know, I. During the pandemic, I picked it back up again. I actually taught myself jazz. I was a more of a classical treble player. And I have a bunch of music minus one. It used to come out. I remember I bought my first Music minus one on an album. And for anybody listening, Music minus one is all the. I bought the Hummel chair, the Trumpet Concerto, and so on one side of the album is the Concerto with the trumpet, and the other side is the concerto without the trumpet. You play along and they provide you with the music in the right key. And then it went to cassette, and then it went to cd. And now you just download the music and you can download anything. So I downloaded a bunch of. I started with really pretty simple jazz, and then I went to all the blues and jazz, what we call blues and jazz scales, and I memorized those and I played around with those. I pulled my arbin back out and I got Pretty good. I'm not. You know, I don't really claim to be a musician, Jim. I claim to be a mechanic.
- [45:33]
Jim Alstott
And if I play the notes. Yeah.
- [45:35]
Raymond Foster
Practice, practice. I'm an ex. I'm an excellent sight reader because I. Pratt. It's what I do. I read music. As a matter of fact, my wife thinks it's so funny because she is a musician. I can't sing along to something unless I can. Once I see the music. You sing along perfectly. Because I got in my. I can see the music. I don't. I can't. I can't do it in my head like. Like a musician can. I can't play by ear, as they say. I just can't. And. And I. When I say can't, it's probably a mental block.
- [46:06]
Jim Alstott
But music, you know, it's interesting that. So that's like karaoke for. For brass players. Minus one. Yeah. That's.
- [46:17]
Raymond Foster
Wow.
- [46:18]
Jim Alstott
That's very cool, though. I like that in. You know. Interesting. So I went to school for music, so I have an affinity towards that, which is why we. We talk about music being the third pillar of the show and. Which I think is a wonderful segue into our musical questions. Okay, are you ready for that?
- [46:41]
Raymond Foster
I am. Go.
- [46:42]
Jim Alstott
Okay. Fantastic. And this is the part of the show when I have a chance to ask the guests some musical questions. And as I always say, I truly believe that music is the tie that binds. And each of us has a soundtrack that accompanies their life if they just take a moment to think about it. So here's question number one. What was the first song you fell in love with from the radio?
- [47:05]
Raymond Foster
I think I love you with the Partridge Family.
- [47:08]
Jim Alstott
And I remember had to been.
- [47:11]
Raymond Foster
I had to been 10 or 11 years old, maybe 12, I don't know. But I was thinking about this the other day. It was at the same time that I was becoming. I was going from preteen to teen. So it was the same time that I was beginning to try to understand the ideas of love. Right. And so I think I love you. And keeping me up all night. I don't know what to do about it. I just thought as a kid that was a snappy tune. But I think also subconsciously is probably speaking to the transition point I was as a human being.
- [47:44]
Jim Alstott
I love that. That's great. The connection there, too. So did your family have a song that everyone would belt out on road trips or vacations when you're growing up?
- [47:54]
Raymond Foster
Up, yeah. But John Jacob Jingleheimer Schmidt and my mother used to Sing Wilhelmina, Mildew. And I've never even found that anywhere. But they had a, My dad hated it. They had it. She had an eight track tape, an eight track tape of Three Dog Night and Jeremiah was a bullfrog. And at a talent show, it was some kind of talent show or something. I think my sister and my brother sang that at my mother's, My mother's suggestion for that. She liked them and she liked the Mamas, the Papas. That's probably why, you know, I like the Seekers and anything from that folk rock era.
- [48:38]
Jim Alstott
Yeah.
- [48:39]
Raymond Foster
I think is beautiful music as far as I'm concerned.
- [48:42]
Jim Alstott
That's very cool. Three Dog Night is, is really. They were an incredible band in my opinion too. I, I, I, I would say that they're probably the band for me in that, that genre, that, that era, for sure. So when you were in high school, did you and your friends have a song that you would belt out when you were driving around with the windows down in California? I mean, you'd have the windows down all the time, right?
- [49:16]
Raymond Foster
Yeah, well, you know, most of my friends were in the band and I remember we were, I went over a friend's house with a sax player. We were, he was scoring Elton John's Philadelphia Freedom.
- [49:29]
Jim Alstott
Ooh.
- [49:30]
Raymond Foster
So we could play it and we had a jazz band and. But we always ended with will I ever see you again? So that, and I mean, just get, you know, you just get terribly bored of playing that and that in the high school fight song. Because I was in the traveling band. Right. So my musical experience, you know, from that period of time, anything that sounded really, really musical. I mean, if you listen to Mood, the Moody Blues, or you listen to the Nitty Gritty Dirt Band, or you listen to things like that where there is, there's some, they've got good strings and they've got good players. Yeah, yeah. There's a lot of good music that came out then. So it's hard to settle in one that we would. And I'm not much of a singer anyway, so.
- [50:19]
Jim Alstott
So did your musical taste change after high school and then going into the Coast Guard and so on and so forth?
- [50:26]
Raymond Foster
Okay. I have a, I have a seriously eclectic taste in music. Okay. I love Merle Haggard and Willie Nelson and there are some country western songs I think are fabulous. There are some early rap music that I could, you know, anything eminent, some really interesting work. I think some early rap music was, it was just fascinating to me. In fact, I think that rap's been around in the form of Scat or something else for a very, very long time. I am. I love jazz. In fact, I have to turn it off. My. My wife says whenever they get to the. Sounds like elephants. But I also, you know, I have all of Mahler's symphonies.
- [51:12]
Jim Alstott
Oh, wow. Okay.
- [51:13]
Raymond Foster
In albums, I have all three of the Bach. CPE Johannes Bach. And what's the other one? I can't think of his name. So, I mean, my music. I love baroque music, which is. Yeah, I love baroque music. The instrument, the. It's just beautiful music. The. The in, because broke is probably the closest we have to jazz. It has continuous bass. Fascinating. It has implement. It has not. They don't. They don't improvise, but it has flourishes on it. What's the word? I'm thinking. So it's very decorative music. That's what the word baroque means. Decorative, essentially. So I love baroque music. I have a very eclectic taste. I love marches. John Philip Sousa marches. I mean. Yeah. And you know, Sousa, like. Like Mozart. They were both Masons. In fact, Sousa wrote a couple of work. Pieces of work specifically for Masonic lodges, actually for the Knights Templar for their grand assemblies and their grand encampments. And his music expresses. If you listen to. I think it's A, A, B, B, C, C. It's his melody. Counter melody. And if you listen, you'll hear. You'll hear the melody, but you'll hear the counter melodies underneath it. And you'll hear the two begin to struggle, the melody. And the counter melody will struggle and the counter melody will come out and it will take over and it'll become the melody. And then it will be subsumed again by the. So this is life. Struggle between the conscious and the unconscious that he's trying to reflect, you know, that there's a counter melody within all of us. And it's actually the stronger, the more driving of the melodies. And so if we listen to our counter melody, how beautiful it can be. That's one of the lessons I think you can get out of listening to John Phillips.
- [53:07]
Jim Alstott
That's awesome.
- [53:08]
Airalo Announcer
That's awesome.
- [53:10]
Jim Alstott
My exposure to John Philip Sousa was in middle school and high school marching bands having to. And the monkey wrapped his tail around the flag. Yeah. That's why I remember my band director used to say that all the time when it was. It was time to play that. But. So is there a song that gets your positive juices flowing that makes you want to go out and crush your day?
- [53:43]
Raymond Foster
It used to be money for nothing.
- [53:46]
Jim Alstott
Ooh, yeah.
- [53:47]
Raymond Foster
Because that's what Police work felt like.
- [53:50]
Jim Alstott
Chicks for free.
- [53:54]
Raymond Foster
And you know. And so that used to be, you know, really the song. I think ccrs I heard it through the grapevine for a lot of reasons. Number one is it's such a long track and so you, you, you can get into it and stay into it. I think it goes on for 13 minutes or something like that. The long play.
- [54:13]
Jim Alstott
Holy cow.
- [54:14]
Raymond Foster
Yeah, it's a long, long play and then they really get into it and they really explore the whole thing. But unlike the Marvin Gaye one, it's not a. It's not, it's. It's. It's driven, you know. I hate rumor mongers personally. I hate anyone who would be a traitor. Betrayal. And I think I heard it through the grapevine. It just speaks to me. I just don't like that.
- [54:40]
Jim Alstott
That's the epitome of that to the core.
- [54:42]
Raymond Foster
When I was in the late 70s I stole. Sold stereos. I didn't steal stereos, I sold them. And we played, we had. Well actually what was bigger than was reel to reel tape recorders.
- [54:55]
Jim Alstott
Oh yeah.
- [54:57]
Raymond Foster
And oh man, I tell you what. Funky Town and the storm trooper Mark March you. We had those two unreal. Crank those over with the giant speakers and sell somebody a two thousand dollar stereo system every time. Wow. So yeah.
- [55:13]
Jim Alstott
Real to real.
- [55:15]
Raymond Foster
Yeah.
- [55:15]
Jim Alstott
You know that.
- [55:17]
Raymond Foster
You know we. My wife's probably got a collection of 500 albums which she's constantly putting on something. She put them on all CD and now she's putting them all on in the, in the, in on the. Some kind of stick or something.
- [55:30]
Jim Alstott
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
- [55:31]
Raymond Foster
So we, yeah. Music. And, and I've had satellite radio for 20 years when. Since it came out because I just, I like my, I like the music I want to hear.
- [55:43]
Jim Alstott
Right. So yeah, at a moment's notice too. I mean you can just flip from genres to genre to genre. Yeah, it's very cool.
- [55:52]
Raymond Foster
I, I go back and I'll, I, I stay at the 70s and then I'll get bored. Hit up to the 80s and if it's an early 80s tune, I'm into it. Anything about 85 or then I'm really into work. So I'm not listening to the radio. But yeah, so yeah, and I go to the jazz station, you know, back and forth.
- [56:11]
Jim Alstott
Yeah, I like that. Do you have a Guilty Pleasure song, one that you don't want anybody else to know is on your playlist?
- [56:22]
Raymond Foster
No, but I lived in St. Kitts for about a year in the Caribbean and I would go to breakfast every Morning. And they had. They only had two songs they would play every day. And they played them constantly. Every day. It's all they had. And it was the only place to have an American style breakfast. Damn place. And that was Shake it Off and Girl on Fire.
- [56:45]
Jim Alstott
Get out of here.
- [56:47]
Raymond Foster
Yeah. And so that's all I heard on and on for I used to. And so it got into my head for a long, long time, you know, the lyrics, the whole thing. And so not a guilty pleasure so much as they were in my head for so long that I could have charged rent for the space.
- [57:06]
Jim Alstott
I love that. What I'm going to do is I'm going to fast forward and go to my favorite question, and then we'll wrap everything up.
- [57:16]
Raymond Foster
Okay. Okay.
- [57:19]
Jim Alstott
And here it is. So sometimes there are songs you hear that ring so true that they can stop you in your tracks. The song lyrics sound like they were written specifically for you or by you. What's that song.
- [57:34]
Raymond Foster
I gotta go with? There's two. The first one I think would be more personal to me would be the Highwayman.
- [57:41]
Jim Alstott
Okay.
- [57:42]
Raymond Foster
And just the fact that. That you. I believe I've led multiple lifetimes in this life. Right. I constantly am. And people will tell you that, I mean, I'm a different human being. There's a fact. The mayor of our town, he goes, no, no, it was. It was another Mason. And he stood up in an assembly. He was my sergeant when I was on the job, man. And he stood up, he goes, I don't know what happened to that Ray Foster guy, but he's disappeared. This new guy's appeared over here.
- [58:12]
Jim Alstott
Oh, my gosh.
- [58:13]
Raymond Foster
Yeah. And so this idea of transformation, even within one lifetime, is doable, given how we live and when we live. And so that's exciting to me. I don't know what the next transformation will be. Doesn't feel like I'm done. And the idea that you might be able to come back and do this again, the idea of reincarnation is very attractive to me. So I think that that song speaks to me. The other one that I like, Teach your children well by Crosby, Stills and Nash. Crosby, Stills, Nash and Young. And that's because central to that song is the idea of having a code to live by. And I think every human being has to have a code. Have you ever seen the picture the Wire? The series the Wire on hbo?
- [59:05]
Jim Alstott
Yeah.
- [59:06]
Raymond Foster
The crime drama.
- [59:07]
Jim Alstott
Yes.
- [59:07]
Raymond Foster
The most. The most. The most righteous character is Omar the dope. The guy that rips off the dope dealers because he's got a code and he lives by it and he doesn't violate his own code. And that code makes him predictable to us. That makes him predictable to the universe. And I think that a human being has to have a code to live by. It doesn't matter what it is. That's consistent. So there'll be those. There you go.
- [59:35]
Jim Alstott
I appreciate that and thank you for sharing your songs with me. Thank you for sharing your thoughts with us and your stories, which were fantastic. Just absolutely. I, I love the high speed chase. That was.
- [59:48]
Raymond Foster
Wow.
- [59:49]
Jim Alstott
That was very cool. I, I definitely appreciate that. Well, it's just about time to cue the music for today's episode. But don't forget to like comment and subscribe to the Drop the Needle podcast to stay up to date on our latest episodes. I'd also like to take a moment to thank everyone again for tuning in today and I hope you enjoyed this episode of of the Drop the Needle podcast. I would also like to thank our very special guest, Mr. Raymond Foster for joining us today. Raymond, how can folks get in touch with you or get your books or blogs? What would be the best way?
- [60:27]
Raymond Foster
So my old consulting website, we've ramped over to a writer's Website so it's high techcj.com h I T-E-C ch cj used to be high tech criminal justice. So high techcj.com my most popular books are highlighted there and everything from a PO box to an email address, telephone number, certain smoke signals I will reply to. So that's the way to get through.
- [60:51]
Jim Alstott
Fantastic. I appreciate that. So what I'm going to do is I'm going to invite you all to head on over to the show Notes where there's going to be a link to the playlist from today's episode episode. There's also going to be a link to Raymond's website so you can definitely take advantage of purchasing one or all of his books for that matter. All right, my Drop the Needle posse. Like Billy Joel says, from the highs to the lows to the end of the show, this is the end of our show. Until next time, this is Jim Allstott wishing you infinite health and happiness and the perfect playlist for your life. Thank you again for being the best part of us. Catch you next time.
- [61:34]
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