A (3:47)

Yeah, it's funny, there, there was a period of time where you had social media marketing agencies and digital marketing agencies, right? It was just like, oh no, we're this flavor. And now it's just like, no, it's all just marketing. Right. So one of the things you write about a lot and I, you know, I'm a subscriber to your newsletter and I really, there are a lot of people out there writing about AI hype. You're like, look at what this thing can do. But I think you guys have take a very, like you said, not necessarily a dramatic hype approach, a very almost stand back approach of saying look, we have to remain strategic. Human beings have a role, but maybe it's changed. And so I really appreciate that take. So let's get in a little bit to the changing like the AI plus strategy, you know, plus humans approach because there's certainly a lot of hand wringing right now around all these jobs that are going to be wiped out. Like what are people going to do? So what do you, let's just divide it. What do you think is going to go away? These tools actually do better than humans and what do you think is going to actually stay and perhaps not for a long time be replaced by humans or by machines?

B (4:56)

No, that's a tempting and interesting question. One thing that I want to reflect quickly, the focus on non hype bullshit and sorry for calling that way a non hypey framing of this whole entire new trend was also personal choice of ours with the newsletter, but also a strategic choice as well. Obviously everyone is hyping around this whole thing and we are personally, we are getting a little bit older I guess and we are just not interested in the, in the defocusing of our audiences. So we made the conscious decision to kind of like stand still and observe a little bit more with a strategic eye. So that's one thing. Second to your question, it's. I would love to have an answer, but I'm not afraid to say that I don't know. I think during these times that are changing, it's really hard to know what will happen. And we are just migrating, by the way, the newsletter to another platform and I had to reread the old stuff that we wrote all when I say old like half a year ago. And that will be a context to your answer, by the way. And I just read what we'd wrote like half a year ago and everything was so beginning at that stage. Still everything changed so fast within couple of months. New tools came out, new concepts introduced to the public. And I'm not talking about like agents, like more like you know, working together with AI, human in the loop and you know, this kind of stuff. It's so hard to predict because within this small timeframe everything has changed. I think what we can do to answer this question, and sorry for it, it takes a little bit longer is that to nail down the basics that we think that it will be changing. And I think there are a couple of things that will change and one that I'm almost 100% sure it will change is that production of marketing materials and like marketing production in a sense, like content production, shall we say, will be either fully automated or it will be not come with a, you know, high barrier of entry. It's not, it doesn't have a high barrier entry right now either, but it will have like a minimum barrier of entry. With AI, that means a lot for agencies, by the way, for marketing teams, because we create, I mean like 80% of our work as marketers are creating content. Now if the content creation is almost automated by AI, what do we do? Right? That's the question. Now I don't have the answer, but I'm sure that we won't create that much and that amount of content within our workload and work time. Second, AI is getting perfect or better, shall we say. It's always, you know, tomorrow's AI is 10x better than today's AI, but it's still not perfect. And the reason why it's not perfect is that it still needs the human us to course, supervise, review, edit, whatever. So I think the human in the loop or human in the addition working with the AI, it will matter for now, for a couple of years at least. And third, we need to think that if production is not our job anymore, but we still need it, then where do we need it? And I think that's the answer for Your question here that we need to be able to form strategies. And what is a strategy by the way? Understanding the client need with empathy and suggest process to achieve the goals, their goals. And that's it. Pretty much. That's the bare bones simple strategy. How do we produce more. Oh sorry. How do we produce better content? Because production it like production wise. It will be automated but it still has to be good. We need taste, we need quality, we need judgment, we need review, supervision. And how do we work better with AI is that if we understand the workflows and the processes as a operator of the entire show. So I think strategy like empathy, taste and operational efficiency or workflow knowledge should be and will be important for marketers and safe to say these if you're.

A (9:47)

A consultant, agency owner or fractional CMO who feels kind of exhausted from starting from scratch with every new client, well, this is for you. The fractional CMO plus certification is a three day live experience built to help you stop being the bottleneck and start leading with clarity. You're not only going to learn, you're going to license all of our systems, documented processes and practical tools all grounded in the duct tape marketing strategy first approach. We're going to help you turn strategy engagements into a product you could sell over and over again. You'll also get one on one support and join a community of marketers who actually get what you're building. Our next certification is coming up soon. You can learn more and more at DTM World Certified. DTM World slash certified. Well, well. And I think you raise a really, I think at least right now one of the differentiators, the barrier to prod to producing quantity is gone. However, I think the barrier to producing quality is still a real differentiator.

B (10:52)

Yeah, yeah, I agree. I, I agree. And it just, you know, AI just like highlighted how not many of us have taste and how not many of us can produce great content and how most of the content that we produced so far anyway was well, I wouldn't say garbage but like, you know, mediocre. I think it's super important to highlight that previously you needed resources to produce high quality content. So if you wanted to do at a Super bowl level advertising, you needed DDB or Ogilvy or whoever big agency. If you wanted to do a global media campaign, you needed a big media agency or an insane marketing budget to, you know, go with that. If you wanted to produce a content library of whatever you have, like I don't know, hundred ebooks or shit, but you need did 10, 50 whatever copywriters or marketers to do that similarly happening in other industries. So if you wanted to do, I don't know, the new John Wick movie, you needed a Hollywood studio and so on. I can go on and on now. You don't need these resources. You need a laptop and an idea and I don't know, hundred dollars for API credits and pretty much that's it. That's it. That's all you need. And judgment and taste and strategic mindset and you know, these kind of stuff that are human innate human values and abilities which AI cannot produce.

A (12:40)

Well, so soon. That begs the question then if we are going to still have humans involved, do we need different humans? A lot of us, if we built an organization, say to produce stuff, you know, the copywriters, the graphic designers, that their whole output was the stuff, do we now need to hire for taste and for judgment and for brand intuition?

B (13:05)

I guess yes. I'm not the, I'm not the person who will tell you otherwise and I'm also not the person who is in the business who helps you to do that. But if I would be in the business, I would be immediately start some sort of like a training company or anything around that that helps people who have like basic skills through studies like I don't know, creative arts or whatever and upgrading them to be able to use those skills in a refined manner or multiple people purposes on like in, in our case marketing. So yeah, people.

A (13:45)

I think I've actually seen on your website, aren't you producing some courses or some master classes? Yeah, we do some workshops.

B (13:52)

Yeah, yeah, we do some workshops but we are not a training company.

A (13:55)

So.

B (13:56)

So with an AI ready CMO if you like pay to go to get a paid member, you obviously have access to some sort of like a workshop training program and some studies. But we are not a training company. Right, right.

A (14:09)

Yeah. Okay.

B (14:11)

And I don't want to be a training company.

A (14:14)

If somebody was, I don't know, maybe coming out of school now or maybe trying to change careers or something. There are some roles or functions that you would say hey, you should spend your time up leveling your skills in this area.

B (14:30)

So I'm 44, that, that will be a long shot. Sorry, I'm. I'm 44 and, and many of my friends have kids who are like 15 or 10 or 15.

A (14:45)

Yep.

B (14:46)

Or 20 sometimes. And they all talk about the same thing and I'm like fully on full honesty. They talk about what will these kids will do in five to 10 years, what kind of Careers they will pursue what you know, they are, they are families. So I usually talk with the dance obviously and they are talking about I need to send my kid to a university or college or whatever. I live in Europe, so I don't know, they send it to Vienna or something and then how should I pick which university they should go in and so on. How should I help them? And they are clueless and usually the, the close to good answer that I see. And again this is a personal opinion, so treat it as is. Usually the ones that are sending their kids to some for sort of a. Like an art history, literature, something around these like soft things which we call soft skills or soft studies, whatever. I wouldn't send my kid to engineering school right now. I wouldn't send my kid to learn, become a developer or a lawyer or not even a doctor probably. I don't think that these, I mean these professions will exist obviously, but it will have a really huge competition that only the finest one will succeed or will be needed. But if you have like a general arts degree or something around that I know usually, you know, treated as totally useless. I have one by the way, but still. So I studied history and sociology. Pretty much useless, I guess, but still. And I think these studies might be something that can be valuable because they teach you the basics of how to read, how to judge aesthetic things.

A (16:59)

And.

B (17:00)

How to think critically.

A (17:02)

Yes.

B (17:03)

How to think in context. So like historical context, let's say. And I think these baseline knowledge skills, let's say, I wouldn't call them skills.

A (17:14)

But these, it's exposure really more than anything else.

B (17:18)

Yes. These will be inherently valuable than knowing the latest legal, whatever it is.

A (17:26)

Yeah, yeah. Which can be queued up. How about CMOs? Are you. Do you see that role going away? Do you see it, you know, changing inside of organizations to where it will not only look different but it will have a different function.

B (17:44)

So we preach at AI at the CMO is that the CMO role is becoming more like an orchestrator who is leading and creating these environments of workflows where people work together with AI and AI automation and from the marketing org chart like you know, junior mid manager, specialist, head of whatever, nc. I do think that the CMO role will be the last one who will fall. Sorry, Juniors probably will have the hardest time especially and also mid managers and specialists because some of them need to pivot into something else because AI will just simply eat their field of expertise there. But those people who are able to manage not just people, but workflows together. So Mixing the soft skills with, I wouldn't say engineering level skills of workflow engineering but more like you know, operational level. I think these people will be valuable and these people will be the CMOs I think. But if you were a CMO who I don't know only created the marketing budget and delegated the tasks and that's it, yeah you probably will have a harder time in the upcoming years and you need to learn workflow efficiency, operational level execute and you know this kind of stuff or if you are on the other side more like an operational person, you probably need to learn a little bit more soft skills and judgment and taste and you know these kind of stuff that we talked about.

A (19:27)

So far there's a bit of been a bit of a rant for me and I'm curious where you land on this. I think you know a lot of people were jumping at oh my AI tool stack is these 17 tools because they all do one thing really well. And I think what I've said all along is I think the Googles and the Microsofts of the world are going to basically figure out how to build all of those best of class tools into their work tool that you buy for one price or that you're already buying that now is just $10 more a month and they will really kind of wipe out a lot of these one off tools. I'm curious what you think of that.

B (20:05)

I mean this will be a hard argument because I 100% agree with you. I can't share you two examples. Two examples and one explanation on why people think that. I mean especially you know sea level people and decision makers, they love throwing resources on problems. So yeah, they have like a tool abundance and they buy shiny new tools every day. That's fine, we understand it's obviously not the right call and even they don't it, they know it usually. Um, and the two examples are simple ones. One you actually mentioned off air that you read the latest article that we published. I mean it's not rocket science, just Claude Kovork came out. A funny thing by the way did Claude did it, I mean the anthropic team did it with cloth code within one and a half week and no line of code were written by any engineers, all AI. So the learning there is that most of the tools will be irrelevant because startups and AI tools just die every day because new tools will come out. Also don't forget that the big ones, Google and the others, they have infinite resources like infinite. They have infinite training data and AI lives on Data. So just like one simple AI feature added to Google Ads, let's say it'll probably kill 90% of the AI tools out there right now.

A (21:51)

You know one thing people underestimate, they also have all the hardware.

B (21:55)

And also the hardware. Yes.

A (21:57)

So it doesn't cost them anything.

B (21:58)

In a sense business that hardware doesn't really matter that much. More like the data. But yeah, the hardware is important too. And the second thing is that well I'm really proud of it because it happened today. So sorry for sharing it with everyone right now on this podcast, but I built a content repurposing application. You literally it does a simple thing. You, you give an RSS feed to the application. In our case our newsletter. We, I mean we are only two people so we don't have social media managers and stuff. And because most of the content that we do is news driven. So every day we publish something new, we cannot batch write stuff pre, pre time. So we only know the content on the same day and we need to share it on X and you know, everywhere. And we spend a lot of time to repurposing this type of content even if we use AI. So this app actually takes everything that we have, new posts and repurpose it on different platforms. It self learns, it does everything. Like it's fully automated. It's amazing. It has a UX everything. And I built it under an hour while I having breakfast at my kitchen table. I'm not kidding. And I don't know how to code at all. Like I never coded a single line of code ever. And I will probably never will. Claude did it just by prompting it. So the reason why I'm telling this thing is that it's so easy to build up something new now even for personal use that you probably end up. And that's like a wild guess and more like futurism. I might guess that within a year or two we don't really even have like small SaaS for most companies people just you know, ramp up their own applications for their own computer for their own personal use, for their own agency, for their own clients within an hour and it works fine just for them. Yeah, so it's interesting. So short answer to your. To, to your question. I mean don't really bother subscribing to 20something AI tools. Probably 95%. 95, 95% of them will be extinct within a year or two and substitute by Gemini or other Gould products or whatever.

A (24:32)

Right. Or.

B (24:32)

Second answer, build your own.

A (24:34)

Yeah, I'm curious. And again you don't have to answer this. We can end on this. But I suspect that Google will build a cowork. Yeah, clone. You know, because you think of all the people have all of their stuff on Google Drive and that just to be able to say here, go consume all this. You've got to believe that that's coming. Peter, I appreciate you taking a few moments to stop by. Is there someplace you'd invite people to find out more about AI Ready CMO?

B (25:01)

Well, you just said it. AI ReadyCMO.com it's free to subscribe. We share daily updates, daily intelligence. Every day it lands the one thing that you need to know about AI in marketing in your email box. Simple.

A (25:15)

It is a newsletter that I read every day. I appreciate it Peter.

B (25:18)

Thank you.

A (25:19)

Hi. Great. Well, appreciate you stopping by and hopefully maybe one of these days we'll run.

B (25:24)

Into you on the road and anytime. Thank you very much for inviting me.

A (25:38)

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