A (3:41)

Yeah, I see so many people that originally kind of latched onto AI tools as like, oh, here's just, here's another tool to do things faster. And all they really were doing was moving one set of tactics to another bucket, so to speak, and in some cases working harder than ever, you know, rather than getting the efficiencies. So, you know, a lot of the talk around AI, you're calling them digital workers, but, you know, a lot of people are still very much about, oh, A.I. is going to replace people, and there's a real risk and there's a real fear. In fact, I, I, I read an article recently that said a lot, you know, like something like 93% of workers use AI today, and only about 27% of them are admitting it, you know, because I think there's this real fear that's going to wipe out the company. So you, as somebody that's trying to balance both of those, I mean, you're bringing digital workers to places where humans work today. So how do you kind of balance that with, hey, this is going to be okay?

B (4:35)

No, it's a great question. And I mean, you know, full transparency. Had some of the similar feelings and thoughts myself. What I have experienced firsthand, though, I think is there are so many different AI solutions and tools offering features and functionality out there. And in these siloed ways, they're far from replacing us, in my opinion. Because, you know, humans are still very relational and the way that we transact still requires, right, like strategic thinking, creative innovation, relationships. Right. We've been promising and marketing for how long? You know, right message at the right time and the right channel, and we're still hardly, you know, what I mean, delivering on that in a one to one way. And while I do think AI again takes us a step closer to that, it, you know, it doesn't speak with emotion and empathy and compassion. It doesn't meet us, you know, from a design perspective there. So we really see it as a tool that's elevating, you know, humans and employees into doing things that it feels more meaningful. I don't have to be bogged down in data and in deep analysis or you know, my research process can be elevated or some automations can be more trusted, but there's still a requirement for me to participate. And, and in this hybrid ecosystem, it really puts accountability right on you as an individual to say if I'm going to build a digital worker to be a part of this team, just like I would an employee, I'm going to review, meet, coach, manage that individual, that worker. And so there's really an intricate relationship in what we've seen that companies are getting success out of. And it can't be a set it and forget it and AI can just do it on its own and it's going to take over and replace us. Now who's to say where the technology goes and what that unlocks? And the impact, of course there's impact with any evolution, right, that we go through, but I'm choosing to remain an optimist in this one.

A (6:36)

So if we're going to move from robots to teammates, which is what you're suggesting, do there have to be some pretty big organizational shifts I mean to make that real? I mean, culturally, operationally, you know, there's, you're going to have a 30 minute one on one with your, you know, digital co worker. I mean, how do organizations have to change to actually get a new mindset?

B (6:59)

I think it's the best question you could have asked. Right now you, a lot of organizations are seeing like, okay, it's another tool technology. My IT team is going to decide what right tools and technology are potentially the best for me, approve it, implement it and set it up for me. The reality though is those configurations, implementations of those tools don't often result in like really meaningful impact. Sure you can get an outline or research, right. But they're not really taking over jobs to be done and full outputs because it doesn't have the memory in the context. So the biggest change is business leaders and right coming to the table to be a partner with IT and take accountability for the success of the AI. And what that means is, you know, my IT department, you know, we just launched an SDR agent, you know, a couple months ago to help us. Right. With our sales capacity. Our IT team didn't have the experience to understand what a human SDR goes through. Right. To drive high quality engagement and get results back. They needed us to come to the table and psychologically kind of map that out so that we could then say, well, what needs to be documented, what information? Where do we want to engage with that? You know, it's not just in our CRM system, which is Salesforce. We also wanted to be notified in Slack when our SDR was closing a lead. Right. Just like the rest of our sales team engages. So it's thinking, you know, what knowledge and information do they need? Where in the flow of work, Right. Are they going to operate? And then, yeah, you do need ongoing coaching. So that's why we keep talking about as a part of your workforce strategy because your, you know, human employees don't perform on day one. So you probably can't expect your right digital workers to do that either. And it takes time to understand what you've provided to them, what are they capable of doing and not doing, what additional coaching and feedback might they need, what other information sources might they need to be connected to and so on. So we do have one to ones with our digital workers every week reviewing that output and optimization that we can feed back. But the cultural change for me was really when business leaders came to the table and realized like they're fully responsible for this and it's their partner and not the other way around.

A (9:11)

Yeah. In fact, I've seen many people advise, you know, don't stick AI adoption in it, you know, and forget it and say they're gonna, you know, because it just won't, it won't work. Hey, if you're 20, 25, marketing felt more like a scramble than a system. Well, you're not alone. You stayed busy, clients showed up, but deep end, you're not really sure why it all worked. And that uncertainty is risky. You can't build a predictable business on hope without a clear strategy. You're just throwing tactics at the wall and that can get expensive fast. That's why Sarah Nay, our CEO at Ducktape Marketing, is opening a few strategy first calls for service based business owners. These one on one sessions are for those who already have clients but know their marketing lacks clarity, consistency and direction. In the call, you'll pinpoint exactly where your marketing's breaking down and see whether the strategy first approach can help you build a system that your business can actually run. On in 2026. The sponsor limited book yours now at DTM World fast start. That's DTM World slash fast Start. On that same similar point, at least I think a lot of people think, okay, I have a function to be done. I'm going to hire somebody for that. Here's going to be their job description. You know, okay, great, it's going to be a digital person. But you know, here's the job description. So do they have to actually. Do you believe that there needs to be different conversations about how work actually gets done, who's doing what, how roles are divided? This may be totally different than what we've done before because we're dealing with a whole different flow and process.

B (10:54)

Yeah. I mean, we're so new to it that I, I think absolutely, as we continue to iterate and learn and every business is different, Right. We could all be using the same tools, but we still maintain competitive advantages because of the way we get work done. Right. And the way that we think about our processes or the information and the individuality and uniqueness. Right. That's the. Those employees bring. So similarly, you know, we did have to take a step back because conversationally, humans can exchange information, retain it. Right. And act accordingly. And that's not how digital workers do. You really have to document that. And that's a new muscle, right. To really think about, oh, well, how would I take that action? And what did I need to take that action? I needed access, I needed information, I needed maybe an approval. Right. What have you. So it really is a reflection, you know, as much of like knowledge and information as process and efficiency that you want. The beauty of it though, because it does sound like a lot of work and it. And up front, I think it is, right? Start small. You don't have to. To resolve your entire workforce and change your entire ways of doing things by any means. Right. It's just saying, hey, if I could get this one job to be done off my plate, it would free me up, right. To maybe take on some other. So start there. Right? Start with where your technology investments already exist. Almost everyone has an AI, you know what I mean? Application or solution for you. And so build around what you know and play with it so you can learn. It's there that then, you know, the aha moments happen and you can start to contextualize how vast this could go and prioritize, you know, your biggest use cases to drive. Yeah. Value back for the business.

A (12:35)

And how, I mean, how. What role does specialization play? Because again, you know, we've all worked in organizations where this is your job, but oh, we also need you to take sales. We also need you to design, you know, brochures and we. So now we can actually have five digital workers, right. That are very specialized in doing those tasks. So we have to think about the org chart differently, don't we?

B (12:55)

Yeah, there are so many shared. Yeah like actions, you know, across different functions. Especially in small business. We all wear many hats and we're kind of working on this idea and philosophy of digital twinning. So, you know, we've got an entire group of really seasoned, highly experts right on in our engineering department, delivering right value for our customers and solving some of their biggest business needs. Well, each of those engineers has different speciality and are called in for different things. So while the foundation of their digital twin is similar in terms of what access it might have and what tasks it can perform and what information it has access to, the way they coach and manage it. Right. Varies. And so it also doesn't have to be one to one. We can now I can partner right for with my chief revenue officer, for example, on our sdr, you know, digital worker. And we both can kind of feed in and then they can expand much more easily and are much more adaptable than our human workforce. Right. So the benefit being, you know, capacity constraints are, you know, not fully removed but somewhat. And so you can think about that now. The limitations I think of AI too are just is if you've ever gone super deep, you know, and want to hear chats, the more focused your engagement with a specific tool on a task. Right. The more quality comes out of that. And that's kind of the idea of like you might have to orchestrate multiple tools for different tasks. Right. To accumulate what a worker is able to accomplish to drive an outcome. And that's the. That I think that's a bigger shift than getting too lost in. Well, who manages it and who's this worker for? It's really about just the collaboration to say, you know, here's the outcomes we want to deliver and what, how do we best orchestrate the technology to help us do that?

A (14:43)

How do you. How are companies positioning this idea of hybrid workers as a way that kind of resonates with all the stakeholders that they might have to, you know, keep happy. Because again, we're still seeing people have moved, but we're still seeing fear, you know, head in the sand, total adoption. I mean people are all over the place. So you know, how are from a marketing perspective because also, you know, one of the stakeholders, big stakeholders. The customer. What does the customer think about the fact that a digital SDR is talking?

B (15:14)

No, a couple things inside of that. It's so new that I don't know that we're seeing organizations adopt this yet. I am actually in the lab. You know, we really came to market, you know, 90 days ago with this point of view, even a little bit more to start hitting it hard. And we were for sure ahead of the curve. But I'm seeing trends catch up to that. Right. You're seeing salesforce start. Talk about digital labor. Now you're seeing some of these big, you know, Accenture starting to, you know, lean into this. So I think the idea that we have to pivot, you know, who's responsible for that, you know, investment in ongoing success is really big. And the benefit to being. Once you kind of have that institutional knowledge, it doesn't go away. Right. When your employees walk out the door, that can leave a gap in information or how things get done and set you back until you rehire here you're building, right. That kind of brain, if you will, and that gets to stay with the business long term. So you're retaining that and that makes onboarding and future iterations there more successful. I do think we haven't figured out where our consumer preferences yet, you know, on how much we want to engage with it.

A (16:28)

Right.

B (16:29)

I mean, I still call customer service and hit pound and zero over and over again, right. Until I can get a human on the line. And I imagine for many of us that might not change unless the experience really is so smooth, you know what I mean, that I'm getting exactly what I look for. So, you know, that'll be an ebb and a flow. But I do believe that as humans, we're always going to want an alternate path, you know, into that human connection and relationship. And how do we as brands make sure that, you know, we think about that and give people choices and not just stick them, you know what I mean? In a workflow that they can't get out of and being mindful of that consumer choice and empowerment, I think can build trust not only with your AI, right, or digital worker, that they're interfacing long term with you as the brand as well.

A (17:14)

Yeah, I think I. The way I look at it is automations have to be a convenience for the user and not add friction. A lot of early on people have said, oh, we don't have to talk to people if we put this up here. And so I think that's how people Experience it. But I think companies that are looking, because there are definitely times when that's more convenient. Scheduling an appointment, you know, doing things. I don't need to get on the phone for that. That's more convenient. That's a great use of one of the things that early on I think a lot of people adopted AI and it was very much, hey, this is an assistant. And you know, we're moving now towards, at least the talk is we're moving now towards autonomous agents who actually be able to not only take action, but make decisions. What. How big is the problem of siloed data making that a reality?

B (18:04)

I mean, incredibly, right. Large. The. The reality is you still have to educate and train, right. Any of these tools and digital workers. So you have to have the right data. I think that it's a big mix between, you know, cleaning it and kind of pilot and starting fresh of what you have and figuring out how to add things into it. But eventually what I think is kind of interesting and an example here, to put it in practicality, right. We have some digital workers who are like assistants, right. Instead of having like an executive assistant right now.

A (18:41)

Right.

B (18:41)

And so every meeting that I record, right. That assistant has access to and it summarizes those insights and then it can propose recommendations. Right? Oh, hey, you gotta take these actions today, Lauren, you said these were your priorities or what have you for the week. And every time I keep loading in more conversations, let's say I've changed a decision in a meeting and we decided to pivot on a project or do this, that digital worker is retaining that knowledge. Right. As well. And so I do think that, you know, bringing our current data in is much more difficult than the data that maybe you can start fresh with and like I said, just start feeding it my meetings. Right. But once it's structured in a way that can be read and found and orchestrated into that brain successfully, I do think that the action and the autonomous part of it is quite intriguing in certain capacities, you know, to help propose and potentially resolve blockers and things like that and code and, you know.

A (19:39)

Well, well, I think it's more fundamental than that. I totally agree with you. But I. Here's what my experience is. Even with very large companies, CRM's here, sales pipelines here, who we have to follow up in customer service tickets is here. And none of these talk to each other and which is really going to make the dream of the autonomous agent pretty tough, isn't it?

B (20:01)

Yeah, well, I don't know if it's like I mean, fully autonomous, sure. But we have our digital workers who are working across all of systems, and I completely am trustworthy of its accuracy and what it's sharing with me. So I do think we've made a huge leap forward. You know, it's the. How much of that do you really want it running your business too? Right. How much like creativity innov. I mean, right. If it's. If you don't want to set it and forget it. Right. So I think that there's this. Yeah. There's the evolution aspect of just the natural way that we do business and we grow and we change and we pivot and we stay fresh. Like. Like, you know, how do we empower ourselves to keep that up while agents are taking on the right work, you know?

A (20:49)

Well, and I think what's going to be the real hurdle is trust, you know, how much are we going to trust that agent to make purchases for us, you know, to. And for businesses, you know, they're like, oh, inventories at this level go by, you know, and I mean, when are we going to fully trust that, you know, that level? Last question for you. Looking at five years, you could say five months if you want. Who knows? But what's the workplace going to look like? How's it going to be fundamentally different from today?

B (21:16)

Yeah, we hired a chief digital labor officer. So I think, you know, not that everyone is going to go out and hire one of those, but I do think that we're going to see new ways of thinking about how to write, get work done for sure, which will require an evolution in the way that we hire. We train. Right. We onboard and we skill, you know, our workforce and at the end of the day, talent and individuals. You run from technology, but the more that you adapt, right. You're going to be better fit for where I think the market is headed. And then at a high level, it'll. I personally think you're going to be thinking about digital workers for jobs before you think about the way that you. Right. Hire human workers. And then the roles that you hire those humans in are going to look different because they're going to be overseeing digital teammates, you know, and not just, you know, individual contributors or people, leaders of people.

A (22:14)

I really think, as I hear you talk about a chief digital worker. Officer.

B (22:21)

Labor officer. Yeah.

A (22:23)

Where does that lead? Hr.

B (22:25)

Yeah. And a core partner. Right. Because the people op side of it is very relational. And for us, we have. Right. Digital recruiters and digital people opinions, digital workers that are helping, but they come together to think about okay, great. Where are we going to be making our workforce investments? What does that look like? There's still a cost to these digital workers, right, in consumption and access and licensing, just like you would. So it becomes, you know, a conversation, you know, in talent and the right jobs to be done, being done by the right individuals. But it's very much a partnership. I've heard a couple of people talk, well, chief people officer going to go away and now that they're the chief AI officer and I'm. I mean, that would be a very disruptive and scary future, I think if we start abandoning. You know what I mean, Our people tend to be our highest commodity of differentiation and value to our customers.

A (23:18)

Well, Lauren, I appreciate you taking a few moments to stop by the Duct Tape Marketing podcast. Is there anywhere you'd invite people to connect with you and learn more about usym?

B (23:26)

Of course. Thanks for having me, John. Folks can find Assemble at assemble. Com, that's a S Y M B L.com or Lauren Esposito and you can find me on LinkedIn.

A (23:37)

Awesome. Well, again, appreciate you stopping by and hopefully we'll run into you one of these days out there on the road.

B (23:42)

Appreciate it, John. Thank you.

A (23:54)

Hey, if you're 2025, marketing felt more like a scramble than a system. Well, you're not alone. You stayed busy, clients showed up but. But deep end. You're not really sure why it all worked. And that uncertainty is risky. You can't build a predictable business on hope without a clear strategy. You're just throwing tactics at the wall and that can get expensive fast. That's why Sarah Nay, our CEO at Ducktake Marketing, is opening a few strategy first calls for service based business owners. These one on one sessions are for those who already have clients but know their marketing lacks clarity, consistency and direction. In the call, you'll pinpoint exactly where your marketing is breaking down and see whether the strategy first approach can help you build a system that your business can actually run on in 2026. The sponsor limited book yours now at DTM World slash fast start. That's DTM World slash fast Start.