AI’s Real Role in Marketing

Summary

Podcast Summary: The Duct Tape Marketing Podcast - "AI’s Real Role in Marketing"

Release Date: July 2, 2025

Hosts and Guests:

• Host: John Jantz, Founder of Duct Tape Marketing
• Guest: Andy Crestodina, Co-founder and Chief Marketing Officer of Orbit Media Studios, Author of Content Chemistry, and Renowned Digital Marketing Expert

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1. Introduction

In this insightful episode of The Duct Tape Marketing Podcast, John Jantz welcomes Andy Crestodina, a respected authority in digital marketing with over two decades of experience. Andy is celebrated for his expertise in content strategy, SEO, and website optimization. The conversation delves deep into the evolving role of Artificial Intelligence (AI) in marketing, exploring its current applications, future potential, and the balance between automation and human-centric strategies.

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2. AI's Impact on Marketing

Timestamp: 01:14 - 03:22

Andy begins by envisioning the future of marketing where AI plays a pivotal role in reducing risks and costs. He introduces the concept of creating "synthetic members" of target audiences—AI Personas—that can be used to test content, pages, and calls to action before actual market deployment.

"The future of marketing is lowering risk and cost by building synthetic members of a target audience and then testing content pages calls to action strategies with that AI Persona." – Andy Crestodina [01:14]

Andy emphasizes that this approach is a significant evolution from the traditional methods of content creation and deployment, which often relied on trial and error.

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3. Balancing Efficiency and Quality with AI

Timestamp: 02:24 - 07:41

John raises concerns about AI potentially automating away jobs, referencing Sam Altman's prediction that 95% of marketing or white-collar jobs might disappear in five years. Andy responds by highlighting that his use of AI is not about mere efficiency but enhancing the quality of work. He shares his extensive experimentation with AI to improve content quality, stating:

"Everything that I've done has really just been about trying to improve quality... a lot of marketers are overemphasizing efficiency and speed and missing big opportunities to use it to push performance." – Andy Crestodina [02:24]

Andy believes that by automating mundane tasks, marketers can focus more on building relationships and creating high-quality content, thereby driving better outcomes.

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4. AI and the Creative Design Process

Timestamp: 04:55 - 07:59

The conversation shifts to the creative aspects of marketing, particularly design. Andy discusses the current state of AI tools in design, acknowledging their limitations in achieving pixel-perfect results. He notes that while tools like Figma have advanced the design process by making it more responsive, AI-generated designs still require significant human oversight.

"AI is there... It feels like these long shot prompts. It's just like hope something good comes back and you can't really ask it to fine tune just creating another one each time." – Andy Crestodina [05:20]

Despite these challenges, Andy sees value in AI for generating initial design concepts, which can then be refined by human designers to achieve the desired precision and brand alignment.

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5. Content Creation in the AI Era

Timestamp: 08:21 - 14:19

Andy addresses the challenges of AI-generated content, emphasizing the importance of original, high-quality writing. He argues that relying solely on AI for content creation can dilute the uniqueness and effectiveness of marketing materials.

"I don't see a reason to write an article, to publish an article if AI can create it because your target audience can write that same prompt and get that same article." – Andy Crestodina [08:46]

Instead, he advocates for a content strategy that focuses on strong opinions, original research, and highly engaging formats that differentiate human-created content from AI-generated material. Andy highlights his own approach, which includes incorporating contributor quotes, original research, and multimedia elements to enhance engagement and provide unique value to readers.

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6. SEO and Content Strategy Shifts

Timestamp: 10:03 - 13:44

The discussion moves to the evolving landscape of SEO in the age of AI. Andy explains that while traditional keyword ranking may be declining, there's still significant value in targeting commercial intent key phrases that reflect what buyers are searching for.

"Content strategy is going to have a great moment here as the tide goes out and all these marketers just look like, like it becomes really clear like they're. No one's ever going to read that again." – Andy Crestodina [08:46]

He shares his successful pivot to leveraging LinkedIn newsletters, which have exponentially increased his content's visibility compared to traditional search-based methods. This shift underscores the importance of adapting content strategies to align with changing search behaviors and platform algorithms.

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7. Analytics and AI Integration

Timestamp: 14:19 - 18:17

Andy delves into the realm of analytics, particularly the use of Google Analytics 4 (GA4). He identifies underutilized metrics and emphasizes the importance of digging deeper to extract meaningful insights. Andy provides practical examples of how AI can enhance analytics by transforming raw data into actionable insights, such as identifying peak times for lead generation or understanding conversion rate differences across devices.

"What is the click through rate on the call to action on your most on your key pages... these are all extremely useful things to know." – Andy Crestodina [15:13]

He also highlights how AI can streamline analysis by automating the creation of visual representations like heat maps and charts, facilitating quicker decision-making and strategy formulation.

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8. Future of AI in Lead Management

Timestamp: 19:14 - 21:31

In the concluding segments, Andy speculates on the future integration of AI within Customer Relationship Management (CRM) systems. He envisions AI assisting in lead qualification by researching prospects, automating initial conversations, and providing sales representatives with tailored guides based on real-time data.

"Every lead should have an appended little sales guide that goes with it with the six questions you should likely ask based on what's happened with them in the news and who you're talking to and what they." – Andy Crestodina [20:34]

This proactive approach aims to enhance efficiency while maintaining personalized interactions where they matter most, striking a balance between automation and human touch.

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9. Final Thoughts and Conclusion

Timestamp: 21:53 - 22:32

As the episode wraps up, Andy reiterates his commitment to maintaining human-centric relationships in marketing. He encourages listeners to connect with him on LinkedIn to continue the conversation and emphasizes the enduring value of personal interactions.

"I'm never going to stop caring and talking to people... I'm energized by these conversations just like this one." – Andy Crestodina [21:31]

John Jantz expresses his gratitude and looks forward to future collaborations, highlighting the richness of the exchange and the mutual respect between the host and guest.

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Key Takeaways

• AI as a Quality Enhancer: Beyond efficiency, AI can significantly improve the quality of marketing outputs by enabling rigorous testing and analysis before market deployment.

• Human-Centric Design: While AI tools aid the design process, human oversight is crucial for achieving brand-specific, pixel-perfect designs.

• Content Strategy Evolution: Focus on unique, original content with strong viewpoints and multimedia elements to stand out in an AI-saturated content landscape.

• SEO Adaptation: Shift focus from traditional keyword rankings to commercial intent key phrases and leverage platforms like LinkedIn for increased visibility.

• Analytics Deep Dive: Utilize AI to uncover hidden insights within analytics data, enabling more informed decision-making and strategic planning.

• Balanced Automation in Lead Management: Employ AI to automate initial lead qualification and information gathering, allowing sales teams to focus on high-value interactions.

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Connect with Andy Crestodina

For more insights and to continue the conversation, you can connect with Andy Crestodina on LinkedIn. Engage with his content and explore collaborative opportunities to enhance your marketing strategies.

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This summary encapsulates the core discussions and insights from the episode, providing actionable takeaways for marketers navigating the integration of AI in their strategies.

Transcript

[Andy Crestodina]

Foreign.

[Jon Jantz]

Welcome to another episode of the Duct Tape marketing podcast. This is Jon Jantz and my guest today is Andy Crestadina. He's a recognized authority in digital marketing, co founder and chief marketing officer of Orbit Media Studios and an influential voice on content strategy, SEO and website optimization. With two decades of hands on experience, Andy's known for breaking down complex marketing tactics into practical actionable steps. My kind of guy. He's a sought after speaker and the author of Content Chemistry and a regular contributor to leading industry publications. So Andy, welcome to the show.

[Andy Crestodina]

Thanks for having me John. Glad to be here.

[Jon Jantz]

We have known each other, about each other, whatever the definition is, for many years and I just discovered this the first time you've been on my show. So why don't you come back like weekly?

[Andy Crestodina]

I would never say no. I'd hang out with you all day John, if I could.

[Jon Jantz]

Let's jump into AI. I mean what the heck, what are we 41 seconds in? Where do you see it making the biggest real world impact for marketers today? I know that's a pretty big question.

[Andy Crestodina]

I think about it a lot. I think that probably the future of marketing is lowering risk and cost by building synthetic members of a target audience and then testing content pages calls to action strategies with that, with that AI Persona. So sims like running little like making a thing and getting feedback on it before you put it in the market. Because I think it's likely, it seems to me that we'll look back at this era and say wow, the super primitive you used to just make a thing and make it live and hope for the best and check it later. Probably not in the future. We'll do it in a bit more sophisticated way.

[Jon Jantz]

I hadn't really thought about that idea because I think so many people are focused on automations and efficiencies and getting rid of people. You know, I mean you're obviously, I mean I'm really of the camp that it's going to change some things around in terms of people but I think it also is, you know, they're already seeing it creating some demand in some areas for people that didn't exist before. So is the concern that was it Sam Altman that said. Yeah, that like 95% of marketing or white collar jobs will be gone in five years?

[Andy Crestodina]

Yeah, I think there's, I'm gonna stay out of the prediction game and wondering but I'll tell you what I'm here for and have been from the beginning and you too. It's. I don't, I don't wake up in the morning hoping to save 10 minutes or half an hour, I want to do great work. I want to see the performance of that work. I want to know that I'm doing quality work. I want to see the feedback and the performance of everything in the data. So really, everything I've ever done with AI, and this is hundreds of experiments, it's, you know, half, half my day on Saturday was building a chat, a custom GPT and testing it. But everything that I've done has really just been about trying to improve quality. And if it turns out to be faster, that's lovely. But what we're all trying to do is to drive an outcome. So I think the, I think a lot of marketers are overemphasizing efficiency and speed and missing big opportunities to use it to push performance.

[Jon Jantz]

Yeah, and one of the, ironically, one of the, I think one of the enemies of quality is that we got so much on our plate, right. And I think that even quality relationships, I mean, I'm finding that if there's a lot of stuff that had to be done, but let's face it, it was grunt work, you know, that had to be done. And I do think that some people are feeling like, hey, if I get that off my plate, it kind of freaks out, freeze my head up, you know, even, like I say, for more relationship building.

[Duct Tape Marketing]

And I think that's, you know, where.

[Jon Jantz]

Quality is going to come from, isn't it?

[Andy Crestodina]

Absolutely. So it will give you a free hand to work harder on those, you know, the conversations you're having, prioritizing offline experiences, being part of communities, you know, just taking care of the people around you. But the one thing that I've been doing with it a lot, and this was, you know, my very last call, talking to a client, looking for opportunities to make these pages better, stronger, faster, more detailed and comprehensive. It's for a higher ed program. And we just gave ChatGPT the Persona and gave it the page and said, we're looking to make this a more comprehensive page, give us ideas. The very first idea was fantastic. It's like, which program is right for you? What, Wait, how? And the meeting sort of paused. Like everyone kind of of held their breath for a second and asked like, did we not do that? Wait, we didn't do that. Why didn't we do that? And there, and there were several others, like three or four things. Like, yeah, so AI powered gap analysis is one of my favorite things, but they're always best discovered through relationships and, you know, real world Human conversation.

[Jon Jantz]

So a lot of Orbit Media's work is or has been designed, or at least design is an element of it. How do you feel about the design creative process right now? I think there's a lot of people trying to create tools that can automate a lot of things in that space. There's some really awful stuff coming out through that. I mean, how do you feel about that space right now, where it is today and where you see it going maybe?

[Andy Crestodina]

Well, design for interactive, there's a kind of a turning point happening now because these tools like Figma, where you're designing it somehow in a context where it's already responsive and the front end programming for things that, you know, web teams are building is sort of half done now, kind of like writing or, you know, image generation. The code generated by AI still requires a lot of like review. No one's just grabbing it and assuming it's all perfect. It's not. So there's a big gain there in the handoff between designers and programmers, but not, you know, there's still plenty of work to do. The other one I think isn't design. What do you hire, what do you get when you hire a web company? Partly you want service, you want someone to listen to you, you want accountability, you want a thought partner and you want pixel perfection. I don't think AI is there. I don't think that if you brands big and small want to work with designers to get the thing to look just like they want it to look. The state of AI for ux, it all feels like these long shot prompts. It's just like hope something good comes back and you can't really ask it to fine tune just creating another one each time. I don't know. It's so design for simple things. Design direction, great, but not for pixel perfection.

[Jon Jantz]

I'm going to question how much of the market actually wants or understands pixel perfection. I mean, aren't there, isn't there a significant amount of the market that's like, yeah, that's good enough.

[Andy Crestodina]

I'm sure there is. It's not mostly our audience. I had a 40 minute call with a client about how, you know, this circle, like brand is everything and the edge of the circle needs to be a little bit closer to the edge of the box on both mobile and desktop. Like there are still lots of people who are, who want their fingerprints on their design. I understand that. I don't think that visitors care that much about the number of pixels between the circle and the edge of the box. But so yeah, if you're looking for good enough or a great start, or here's the. A giant step in the, in a good direction. It's awesome. But, but people really do like service. And there's a special thing that happens, like you said about relationships, you know, when creative teams work together to solve problems with clients and leaders.

[Jon Jantz]

Yeah, I mean I personally, and again, I wouldn't put myself out there as being, you know, on the front line of image creation or whatnot with some of the tools, but some of the stuff I've done with it, I mean, every now and then it's like, yeah, that's okay. And then every now and then it's just like, that's like that person has no face. How can I use that?

[Andy Crestodina]

It's changing fast. It's changing fast. Image generation. I sort of wish I could go back and I would have put in the same prompt every month just to sort of see the evolution of it. Because it's improving quickly. Yeah, but yeah, don't look too closely at hands. Text is still a problem. It's getting much, much better. But you know, halfway through here, 2025, there are long shot prompts. Let's be honest.

[Jon Jantz]

Speaking of maybe that's good enough, let's talk about content creation. I think a lot of people, that was probably the first use case for many people is, oh look, this can write this blog post for me. I think a lot of people are starting to find out that's just not going to cut it. In fact, they're, you know, I won't go as far as saying the old Google penalty thing, but I think that they're being penalized in the eyes of everything that's reading the content today.

[Andy Crestodina]

Yeah, I don't see a reason to write an article, to publish an article if AI can create it because your target audience can write that same prompt and get that same article. That's in fact the last thing you should publish. So for the duct tape marketing audience and fans of yours and people who read my stuff, I think it should be obvious that the difference between AI generated, you know, just garbage and quickly made stuff and medium quality or you know, the, the boring, tastes like water articles and strong points of view, original research, you know, deep content like, like taking a stand, you know, collaborative formats like we're doing now, this stuff is going to be even more different in the future. I think that content strategy is going to have a great moment here as the tide goes out and all these marketers just look like, like it becomes really Clear like they're. No one's ever going to read that again. Whoever's byline that was just lost reputation. So yeah, strong opinion, original research, collaborative formats, highly visual content. These will feel more different than ever. So it's like influencers and video. These things will be, I think more effective in the future than even they are today.

[Duct Tape Marketing]

Hey small business owners, let me ask you a quick question. Is your marketing actually working for you or just working you over? If you're tired of chasing random tactics and want real clarity, it's time for a strategy first approach. At Duct Tape Marketing, we help you build a marketing system you own, one that fits your business and finally puts you in control. No more chaos, no more guesswork, just a roadmap you trust powered by smart strategy. And let's face it, a little help from AI today. You ready to shift from overwhelm to confidence? Head over to DTM World Ownit. DTM World/Ownit.

[Jon Jantz]

So as I listen to you describe that, you know, the old game used to be, I mean content and SEO or search visibility certainly were very married together. And as I listen you describe that, I mean it really, I mean, is keyword ranking just not really a thing anymore? It's not important anymore.

[Andy Crestodina]

Thank you for asking that. I'm seeing so much about this and I'm really excited to give this answer. Everyone needs to separate in their minds these two types of key phrases. People looking for answers are looking for articles. AI overviews will kind of give that person the answer. Click through rates to content marketing for search optimized articles will decline forever. It has been for five years anyway. But commercial intent key phrases, what the buyer searches for. Visit website intent key phrases. There's still tons of them. Separate in your analytics blog posts from your sales pages and then check the changes to traffic and then check the changes to rankings and click through rates and engagement. Because people who are making big decisions want to look at a website they're going to click through no matter what Google puts in their way.

[Jon Jantz]

I think one of the pieces of that puzzle is that they're still getting in many cases, even this long drawn out know long tail phrase is still being provided in increasingly AI overviews. And so the game then becomes like, okay, I've already filtered, I'm not going to go look ten places. I'm going to maybe pick one or two of these. So. So the game then becomes showing up in those AI overviews or whatever that looks like. Is there a different approach to that?

[Andy Crestodina]

For sure? Again, perfect question, John I love this conversation. It there's more to content than search. These posts, I don't have time to respond to them all. I'm not in it to like start a food fight, but content marketing's dead because of SEO. That was your only channel. Is that all you ever thought it was about?

[Jon Jantz]

Yeah.

[Andy Crestodina]

So this is my number one B2B marketing strategy for content today is of course the LinkedIn newsletter. It was okay, I've been doing it like now for like five years, but the visibility of my content is literally 10 times what it ever was before. How's that possible? Because I decided it was, you know, a sensible time to build on rented land, you know, because I saw this, the changes coming and adapted my strategy because I'm now partnering with big tech. Google is not in business to help SEOs, but LinkedIn is in business to help content creators and publishers grow an audience on their platform. So no, our typical articles now get, literally get 10 times the visibility that they ever got before, even though click through rates from search are down and declining. And I. Doesn't bother me a bit.

[Jon Jantz]

Yeah, of course, anyone who's not familiar with your work, I will say that part of, I think part of the reason, of course, consistency that you've provided. But also, I mean your articles go in, I mean they're basically masterclasses. And so I, you know, I think that certainly has something to do with, with the reason that you're getting so much exposure is it's just terribly valuable.

[Andy Crestodina]

That means so much to me coming from you. Thank you, John. But I hopefully then that reinforces the point about writing things by hand. Yeah, I mean, I include contributor quotes in every article. There's almost no scroll depth in any article in which you can't see something, you know, like a visual or screenshot or video. I do lots of original research. They're carefully constructed, like very structured pieces with bullet lists and subheads and internal linking and, and I've learned from people like you, like going way back to like just be super direct and concise and get right to the point and eliminate, you know, omit needless words.

[Jon Jantz]

Well, I haven't mastered that one yet, but I had an editor one time that on one of my books that said, you know, this chapter is great, but it starts with a whole lot of throat clearing.

[Andy Crestodina]

I've been there.

[Jon Jantz]

One of my favorite quotes. So you do have been doing a lot and I think that you just, you enjoy this getting into the data. You've been doing a lot with analytics and you know, Maybe even suggesting that new ways to look at data, new key indicators that maybe we haven't been taught to look at. What's what are some of your favorite kind of new ways that you think we ought to be looking at the data? Should we be able to unearth it?

[Andy Crestodina]

Well, some of the most important insights waiting for you literally sitting there just a few clicks away in GA4 are not the most visible. Like you gotta go kind of build the thing.

[Jon Jantz]

Nothing's very visible in GA4.

[Andy Crestodina]

Yeah, it takes a minute. Some examples of useful metrics, what is or questions to ask and find the answer, then form hypotheses and take action. What is the click through rate on the call to action on your most on your key pages. You got to make a path exploration takes a few minutes. You got to learn how to do that. That's fine. How does embedding video change the engagement rate on articles? Are there URLs on your website that load with page not found as the title tag? What is the difference in conversion rates for visitors on mobile versus desktop? Which of your articles is inspiring visitors to subscribe to your newsletter? Which URLs on your site have declining search traffic? We said a second ago. Are they the sales pages? Are they everything or is it mostly just your content and articles and guides? These are all extremely useful things to know. Like that can guide strategy and budgets and you know, what are the, what's the output from those calories burned like it'll tell you, but you got to know where to look. I don't do almost any reporting in Google Analytics. I don't build dashboards. I don't just go look at it for its own sake. But I, I do analysis every day.

[Jon Jantz]

How much are you taking what might be raw data or at least what you can get out of GA4 and just taking it to AI and say ask me questions.

[Andy Crestodina]

Oh there's one or two use cases that you almost can't do without AI.

[Jon Jantz]

Yeah.

[Andy Crestodina]

For example, if you make a report that shows traffic to your thank you pages and then add a secondary dimension for date plus time, export that and AI will make a chart for you showing which day of week people become leads. There is no Tuesday in GA4. But if you give that report to AI, it'll show you. You can have it make a heat map matrix that show what time of day and day of week in a colorful little chart. People become leads. People subscribe to your newsletter. You know, people watch videos, anything, any action, any event. The date plus time was useless to Me before AI.

[Jon Jantz]

Yeah. That's interesting. The. One of the things that I think AI is quite good at, you know, it's basically a mathematician, right? So I think it's quite good at analytics and finding stuff that you, I mean, it. It also sometimes makes huge mistakes, but I think that stuff you couldn't even see with your own eyes, I think it really can. Can.

[Andy Crestodina]

Yeah.

[Jon Jantz]

Surface pretty quickly, can it?

[Andy Crestodina]

And then, John, the next step. So, you know, find for me the campaigns that had the highest engagement rates. Okay. It looks at 200 campaigns and finds these ones had highest engagement rates. Now craft 10 new campaigns based on those. The next step after the analysis. That's why AI is really special. It's because, you know, you could just immediately go from insight to action or at least brainstorming.

[Jon Jantz]

Yeah. Yeah, that's awesome. So where's the noise that you think people ought to be tuning in now? The buzzwords, the whatever agentic of the day is I.

[Andy Crestodina]

So in analytics, I'm exhausted by reporting and love analysis. In SEO, I'm exhausted by the, you know, SEO is dead or content is dead, but I love being discovered for commercial intent. Key phrases in AI, Boy, that's a really just. You're asking a really fun question. I believe that the it's responses are not nearly as good unless you have really like a conversation with it, that you're chatting with it, that you give it lots more inputs, including Personas, and that you are not just having it make stuff for you. I don't. I'm exhausted by the write this thing for me. I'm really excited by and motivated by the. What are the gaps in this? What else could this do? Give me 10 ideas. How could this be better? So I think there's shifts in every category and that there's, you know, do this stuff long enough and you realize like, actually the fun stuff's right over there.

[Duct Tape Marketing]

So I know you don't want, or.

[Jon Jantz]

You mentioned that you didn't really want to be seen as like the crystal ball, but on, on some of this stuff. But how far away are we from the idea where a client or a prospect is going to take an action on our website and that's going to trigger for agents to do certain things on our behalf and you know, maybe even have a conversation with that person and really, you know, there's an element of removing humans from the entire interaction? I mean, how far away are we from that? Or do you think that buyer behavior will dictate that we never go there?

[Andy Crestodina]

I can easily imagine a CRM, a CRM setup where when there's a new lead that it goes and researches this person and brand and then takes the first step toward potentially disqualifying them and then handling some kind of automated conversation saying like thanks for reaching out, you're probably not a fit. You know, maybe check out these other things instead. Here's some alternatives, here's some, you know, possible providers. But if the per. But the sort of lead scoring thing, if it works, then it builds a whole guide, it does a bunch of research for you. It looks at Dun and Bradstreet or checks out their LinkedIn profile and then the rep gets this sort of like little coaching session with AI on how to talk to this prospect.

[Jon Jantz]

Yeah.

[Andy Crestodina]

And so again that's exactly what you said a few minutes ago. Where is it going to make us more efficient in it by setting aside like these low quality leads and help us prioritize relationships by helping us really prep for this really, you know, high stakes conversation. So those, there's a bunch of little uses for AI in there. But yeah, probably every lead should be, should have an appended little sales guide that goes with it with the six questions you should likely ask based on what's happened with them in the news and who you're talking to and what they. What the likely challenges are.

[Jon Jantz]

Yeah, and I think that's really going to be the key is we'll remove friction where clients want friction removed. Right. They want to do their own research, maybe they want to get their own pricing, you know, things like that. We'll remove that friction but then we'll get really smart at where do they actually crave human interaction. You know, not necessarily need it but but want it. And I think it's that sort of beautiful combination that is going to always be the tight wires and I think so.

[Andy Crestodina]

I think that's making people feel special, listening, showing them you care. I said it about design a bit ago. Certainly in service. I'm never going to stop caring and talking to people in my days like today, eight meetings back to back. Love it. I'll take it. I don't mind a bit. I'm energized by these and conversations just like this one. John.

[Jon Jantz]

Well, awesome. Let's not make it 20 years to next time. Let's have you back much sooner than that. Again, I appreciate you taking a few moments to drop by. Is there anywhere you want to invite people to connect with you, find out.

[Duct Tape Marketing]

More about your work?

[Andy Crestodina]

LinkedIn the blue button says follow but if you find the menu and go to connect with me and just say hey heard you on Duct Tape. I'd be more than happy to connect and then we can have an interaction and we can prioritize relationships and take care of each other and that's what this is about.

[Jon Jantz]

Again appreciate you stopping by and hopefully we'll run into soon out there on the road.

[Andy Crestodina]

Thanks John. Foreign.

[Duct Tape Marketing]

Business owners let me ask you a quick question. Is your marketing actually working for you or just working you over? If you're tired of chasing random tactics and want real clarity, it's time for a strategy first approach. At Duct Tape Marketing we help you build a marketing system you own, one that fits your business and finally puts you in control. No more chaos, no more guesswork. Just a road map you trust powered by smart strategy and let's face it, a little help from AI today. You ready to shift from overwhelm to confidence? Head on over to DTM World ownit. DTM World ownit.