How the Right Creators Can Transform Your B2B Marketing

Summary

The Duct Tape Marketing Podcast: How the Right Creators Can Transform Your B2B Marketing

Hosted by John Jantsch

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Introduction: Episode Overview and Guest Introduction

In the December 12, 2024 episode of The Duct Tape Marketing Podcast, host John Jantsch delves into the transformative power of influencer marketing within the B2B landscape. Joining him is Nick Bennett, co-founder of Tech A Media Network and a go-to-market strategist specializing in converting demand into revenue through his innovative People First GTM model. With over a decade of experience in the B2B tech industry, Nick brings valuable insights from his book, B2B Influencer Marketing: Work with Creators to Generate Authentic and Effective Marketing.

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Defining B2B Influencer Marketing

John initiates the conversation by exploring the concept of influencer marketing, noting that perceptions often vary between B2B and B2C contexts.

John Jantsch [01:40]: "Let's define influencer marketing. I suspect that the people would have different definitions of what that means or perceptions of what that is."

Nick Bennett [01:54]: "In B2B specifically, I think an influencer is someone who holds authority or credibility within a specific industry. So they could be a subject matter expert, a creator, a practitioner—people who share valuable insights and have a loyal, engaged following on various social media platforms."

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Differences Between B2B and B2C Influencer Marketing

Nick emphasizes the distinct nature of B2B influencer marketing compared to its B2C counterpart, highlighting the importance of smaller, more engaged audiences in the B2B sector.

Nick Bennett [02:43]: "In B2B, it's not the million-person follower counts that matter. It's the 10,000 to 50,000 follower range—that's the sweet spot in B2B."

John concurs, noting the inefficacy of traditional celebrity endorsements in B2B contexts.

John Jantsch [02:57]: "Would you go as far as saying that traditional celebrity endorsements really are not going to work in B2B?"

Nick Bennett [03:09]: "Absolutely. I've seen B2B companies try, specifically at events, and it just hasn't worked. That's why so many are turning to working with creators."

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Best Practices and Strategies for B2B Marketers

The discussion shifts to actionable strategies for effectively leveraging influencer marketing in B2B settings. Nick outlines the importance of aligning influencer partnerships with specific marketing outcomes and integrating them into broader marketing strategies.

Nick Bennett [03:56]: "It's understanding what are the outcomes that you want to achieve... Creators and influencers can be used as their own channel or as a tactic within other channels like events and social media."

He further elaborates on setting clear Key Performance Indicators (KPIs) based on goals such as engagement metrics, audience reach within specific industries, lead generation, and revenue impact.

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Challenges and Limitations in B2B Influencer Marketing

Nick identifies common hurdles B2B companies face when implementing influencer marketing, primarily stemming from a lack of understanding and the tendency to treat influencer partnerships as one-off tactics rather than sustained programs.

Nick Bennett [07:01]: "A lot of people just still don't know how this works or how they should be operating or building a program from this... They think a one-off tactic will change the world, but it needs to be part of an integrated strategy."

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Case Study: Path Factory Campaign

To illustrate successful implementation, Nick shares a real-world case study involving Path Factory, a content repository company launching an AI chatbot under a tight two-week deadline.

Nick Bennett [09:03]: "We partnered with Path Factory to build an influencer program focused solely on LinkedIn. Within a week, we secured 15 influencers and executed one of their most successful product launches."

This example underscores the effectiveness of a well-coordinated influencer strategy in driving awareness and signups, ultimately leading Path Factory to adopt a dedicated influencer management role.

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Authenticity and Partnerships in Influencer Marketing

The conversation highlights the critical role of authenticity in influencer partnerships. Nick stresses that influencers must genuinely believe in and use the products they promote to maintain trust and avoid misleading their audiences.

Nick Bennett [12:08]: "You have to believe in the mission... If you're not a believer of the category and what you're looking to solve, then you're never going to be bought into anything."

John adds his perspective on maintaining authenticity by encouraging sponsors to provide talking points without scripting messages, ensuring content remains conversational and genuine.

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Building Influence as a Content Creator

Turning the focus to content creators, Nick offers advice on establishing oneself as a credible influencer in the B2B space. He emphasizes consistency, engagement, and having a strong point of view.

Nick Bennett [17:30]: "You just have to show up every single day. Repetition and consistency pay off... You don't need the biggest number of followers, but you need an engaged audience."

He also discusses the benefits of niching down and developing a specific point of view to stand out amidst the vast amount of content generated today.

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Looking Ahead: Future of B2B Influencer Marketing

In discussing the future, both John and Nick agree that the pace of change in marketing is accelerating, particularly with the integration of AI. They foresee a shift towards more human connections and authentic engagements as central to effective marketing strategies.

Nick Bennett [22:24]: "Marketers should master AI to enhance their strategies. It's not about AI taking over but about leveraging it to perform tasks more efficiently."

John Jantsch [22:43]: "It's another marketer who's just as strategic as you that's using it."

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Conclusion and Additional Resources

As the episode wraps up, John invites listeners to connect with Nick Bennett on LinkedIn and explore his book, B2B Influencer Marketing, available on platforms like Amazon and Barnes & Noble.

Nick Bennett [23:02]: "Find me on LinkedIn. DM me. Always happy to chat with new people."

John expresses appreciation for Nick's insights, highlighting the value they bring to B2B marketers aiming to harness the power of influencer partnerships.

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Key Takeaways

• B2B Influencer Marketing Defined: Focuses on industry-specific experts with engaged, niche audiences rather than mass celebrity endorsements.

• Strategic Integration: Influencer partnerships should align with clear marketing goals and be part of a comprehensive strategy rather than isolated tactics.

• Authenticity Matters: Genuine belief in and usage of the promoted products is essential for maintaining trust and effectiveness.

• Consistency and Niche Focus: Content creators should consistently engage their audience and develop a strong, specific point of view to build influence.

• Adaptation to Change: Embracing AI and human-centric strategies will be crucial for future marketing success.

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For those interested in enhancing their B2B marketing strategies through influencer partnerships, this episode offers actionable insights and real-world examples to guide implementation and overcome common challenges.

Transcript

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[John Jantz]

Hello and welcome to another episode of the Duct Tape Marketing podcast. This is John Jantz. My guest today is Nick Bennett. He's a co founder of Tech a media network and go to market firm helping businesses convert demand into revenue through their People First GTM model. With over a decade of experience in B2B tech industry, Nick specializes in crafting innovative go to market strategies. He's also the author of a book we're going to Talk about today. B2B Influencer Marketing. Work with creators to generate authentic and effective marketing. So Nick, welcome to the show.

[Nick Bennett]

Thank you so much for having me Excited to be here.

[John Jantz]

So let's define influencer marketing. I suspect that the people would have different definitions of what that means or perceptions of what that is. How do you describe it when you tell, tell somebody about your book and they say what's influencer marketing?

[Nick Bennett]

Yeah. So I think in B2B it's a little bit different than B2C. I think that's the first thing that we have to tackle. But in B2B specifically, I think an influencer is someone who holds authority or credibility within a specific industry. So they could be a subject matter expert, they could be a creator, they could be a practitioner. There are people who share valuable insights. They have a loyal, engaged following of, of an audience on different social media platforms.

[John Jantz]

So I, I think a lot of people, especially when you talk about in the B2C world, you know, naturally think of Peyton Manning, Kim Kardashian. I don't know some of the folks that show up that way, but, but really I'm guessing in the B2B space it might be somebody you've never heard of, but a thousand people think that he or she knows everything. I mean, is that that kind of micro audience pretty significant?

[Nick Bennett]

Absolutely, yeah. And I think that's the big thing in B2B. It's not the, you know, million person follower counts that that matter. It's 10,000 to 50,000 follower range. That is like the sweet spot in B2B.

[John Jantz]

In fact, would you go as far as saying, I know this a blanket statement, so there's holes in it, but would you go as far as saying that like traditional celebrity endorsements really are not going to work in B2B?

[Nick Bennett]

Oh, absolutely. I've, I've seen B2B companies try to specifically at events and it just hasn't worked. Which is why I think so many people are turning to working with creators. And I should mention there is a difference between creators and influences. So everyone can become a creator. You and I are both creators, but not every creator has influence. And in B2B, you shouldn't self dub yourself an influencer just like B2C people can do that because it's just what is known. But there's such a misunderstanding of what a creator and what an influencer is in B2B. And that's everything that I've been trying to battle for the last couple of.

[John Jantz]

Years to get somebody excited like you, you bring to your cmo. We need to do influencer marketing in all sense. Like no, you know, that's not for us.

[Nick Bennett]

Right, exactly.

[John Jantz]

So what are some of the best practices or strategies that B2B marketers should employ?

[Nick Bennett]

Yeah, well, I think it's figuring out what are the outcomes that you want to achieve. And so when you think about, you know, hey, I'm going to deploy this as a tactic because it's, it's interesting. Creators and influencers can be used as its own channel, but it can also be used as a tactic within other channels that you're already running, like events and social and things like that. So I think it's understanding what are, what does success mean for us in aligning your goals around that. And so when I think of like, what are the core KPIs of what success actually means? It could be engagement metrics. So again, if you're going to go on LinkedIn, for example, and partner with people to drive brand awareness, you care about the likes, the comments, the shares, how many people are driving traffic to my website. If you care about reach and impressions, hey, I'm trying to get into, I don't know, manufacturing in tech, for manufacturing, it's like I care about the size of the audience reach within that specific industry, then you've got the lead gen side, which is like, all right, number of inquiries, signups, pipeline growth. Like, you could use that for a PLG motion. And then revenue impact. Are you directly or influencing sales as someone that is promoting a service? Because it's not like B2C, where it's like, hey, go buy this, you know, $20 hair straightener. It's, hey, you know, go buy this $50,000 piece of tech that you're going to use in your stack. It's. It's a big difference. And so a lot of people, unfortunately, are promoting stuff and they're not using it. And so you build trust with your audience, and then you promote stuff and they believe you, and it just leaves a lot of people disappointed. So when I look to partner with brands or I'm working to build programs, you have to use the product. Yeah, I'm not saying you have to use it for years, but, like, you can't just go into a partnership without using the product. You.

[John Jantz]

You mentioned different metrics, so there would be different objectives, possibly. Right. I mean, somebody might want to create awareness. It's like, I'm going to sponsor this podcast so people start hearing about us. Or I'm going to sponsor this, you know, this techie webinar because I want to create demand. Would that be a true statement?

[Nick Bennett]

Absolutely. And I think it's. It's a great way when you can figure out, you know, multi. It's. You don't want to silo things. So when you can make it part of a larger part of your integrated strategy, it makes sense. I'll give you a good example of that. I had an old podcast called the Anonymous Marketer, and it's no longer going, but Google actually used to sponsor that podcast. And I was like, all right, why would Google want to sponsor my podcast? You know, it's. It was Google Cloud, and we ended up integrating it into a lot of different pieces. So there was the podcast, there was the social media aspect, There was actually webinars. So it was a much more than like, oh, hey, we just want to sponsor the podcast to get more awareness out there. Like, they don't need the awareness. They were trying to tap into specific audiences in certain parts of the US Actually.

[John Jantz]

What are. What have you found are some of the challenges or limitations that B2B, you know, so we talked a little bit about best practices, but, you know, what are some of the realities in some of the limitations for B2B companies?

[Nick Bennett]

I think a lot of people just still don't know how this works or how that you should be operating or building a program from this. Like so, so often I talk to CMOs and founders and they're like, I want to do influencer marketing. And I'm just like, okay, like what do you want to do? And they're just like, I don't know, I want to do a LinkedIn post. Now the issue is you're going to go partner with say five people, do a LinkedIn post. You're going to get some hype that, that day. Maybe you're, you know, launching on product hunt or you're doing, you know, new product, whatever it is. The issue is a lot of brands don't do anything with that content after they have that lightning strike for that one day and then everything goes away because just like, just like real life social media, like all that stuff disappears in about 24 hours. And so then what? And I think that's the biggest issue is so many CMOs and marketing leaders are disappointed in their spend because they're like, it's not, it's not impacting sales, it's not impacting, you know, signups. And it's just like, you can't just do a one off thing and think it's going to change the world here. This is something that it has to become a program and it has to be bought in from the top down and be part of your integrated strategy.

[John Jantz]

Yeah. And really, you know, I've heard a lot of people talk about, you know, especially in B2B that you, you're not looking at this as an endorsement, it's more of a partnership.

[Nick Bennett]

Right, Exactly. And you, you nailed, you nailed that, that word partnership. Because that's still what people still aren't sure. They're just like, I want to do a one off thing. It's very transactional. And one of the things that I work on and championing it as well as People first. And it's like, okay, people first. The core of what people first actually means is, is partner driven, ecosystem driven. And so creators and influences play a big piece of that. But it's still, there's so much education that still has to be done because we're very much in the early adopter phase, at least in tech for, for B2B.

[John Jantz]

So I'll put you on the spot a little bit. Could you give an example of what, you know, what a typical successful campaign like this would look like? I mean, pick whatever medium or you don't have to even name names. You can even just Kind of give us a, you know, a fake case study.

[Nick Bennett]

Yeah, no, no, I have, I have a real one I can use for sure. So we, we actually partnered with a company called Path Factory. They're in the kind of like, kind of content repository world, but they were building an AI product. You know, surprise, everyone's building an AI.

[John Jantz]

Product, even if, even if they aren't.

[Nick Bennett]

And it was an AI chatbot. And so they were launching that, but they had to launch it literally in a two week window because they were acquiring another company and they needed like, they needed this product to fit in here before they announced the acquisition of that company. So they came to us and one of the things they said, you know, hey, we need you to build the whole brand narrative, positioning, messaging, but we also want you to build an influencer program to be able to get the awareness out there. Cause it was kind of like a PLG play. So it was part plg. Like they needed the signups, but they also needed the awareness piece of it. And within a week I was able to get them about 15 people. They were like, Listen, I have a $5,000 budget on what we can spend on paying these creators to create LinkedIn posts. So it was solely LinkedIn. And I went out, found these people, got their approval, built this entire program. We went live and it was one of their most successful launches that they've had. And it's actually still going really, really well. And now they've actually adopted an entire influencer program and they're hiring an actual person to like manage this all for them now. But we did the whole thing in two weeks from like start to finish. And it was like, I don't recommend anyone do that. But with what we had to do, I'm very happy with the results.

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[John Jantz]

One of the challenges probably is fit, right? @t sponsored my. I'm, I'm just gonna say this. I'm gonna go out on a limb and say it. @t sponsored my podcast for about a year and I wasn't really a fan of AT T. Frankly, I probably wasn't a great fit. I mean, I didn't do anything to tarnish the brand or anything, but I didn't have any passion for it. How much of that do you believe needs to be there? I mean, does, does somebody need to be a champion or does somebody need to. Or is it basically, hey, if, if they're going to pay me, I'll say what they need me to say.

[Nick Bennett]

Well, the issue is there's so many people that are now under the mindset where, hey, if they're going to pay me, I didn't realize I could get paid for this type of stuff, which is, which is hurting a lot of the original people that have been doing this like me.

[John Jantz]

And I was just like, I love this product. You should see it.

[Nick Bennett]

Right? Exactly. And that's issue because then it's, it's false advertising because you don't use the product, you're promoting it. I'm gonna go buy that and then I'm gonna be mad that, you know, Joe told me to go buy this and now it's a terrible product. But in my mind and what I tell everyone that I work with and even in the book, it's like you have to, you have to believe in the mission. Maybe it's not the mission of the company, but the mission of the category. Because if you're not a believer of the category and what you're looking to solve, then you're never going to be bought into anything. And like I said, you have to, you have to use the product because like, as a marketer myself, I don't partner with any brand where they won't let me use the product. And I want to see how I can fit it into to my regular life. Like I did just one recently with this company called Tango. Small company, but they basically what they do is they help you create, you know, SOPs for yeah and fantastic product. And so like I started using it because I'm just a two person business and we have work with a lot of contractors and I started to map out all these things. I was like, oh wow, this is fantastic. And I feel like it comes across so more human, so more authentic in the content. That you create when you can actually use it.

[John Jantz]

Yeah, yeah, no, I, I agree 100%. In the early days of influencer marketing, when it was, you know, people. People were used to controlling the message. Right. And so in the early days, people were very freaked out by the fact that, wait, somebody else is going to. Who's not an employee, is going to talk about us, and we're going to pay him. You know, how much risk or exposure, you know, do people still feel is. Is a part of this?

[Nick Bennett]

I don't. I don't think there's much anymore. Every. Every brand that I've worked with and talked to, you know, they have ultimately, you know, write a refusal on, like, hey, does the content go live or not? But they are lessening the guardrails, and they say, listen, I want you to bring your creative freedom. That's why we're. We're. We're paying to work with you. We don't want to dictate what you should write, because that's not human. And so every, you know, I'm working on one right now where, like, I'm going through, and I'm kind of thinking about it, and I sent it to the brand, and they were like, well, we want you to spin it more like this. And I was just like, no, that's not how this works, because you're trying to dictate my point of view, which is that that's not how I feel. And so we actually ended up ending the partnership because they were trying to put words in my mouth a little bit, and I didn't want those words to come out.

[John Jantz]

Yeah, I personally. We do a lot of sponsors on this show, and I personally like it when a brand says, here's the talking points. But we want you to say it like you would say it as opposed to read this script. And I. And personally, I know for a fact it comes off more authentic when I just make it up 100%.

[Nick Bennett]

I'm the same way. And I feel like it's just. It's. It's so much more conversational versus, like, you know, robotic. It's like, it's just like, you know, AI has made content creation so easy. Today is so easy to spot on social media, what's written with AI and not. So we don't. We don't need that when people are, you know, doing podcasts, webinars, things like that.

[John Jantz]

Yeah, yeah. Especially the comments on LinkedIn. Those are painful. What about international market? I know that, you know, again, sometimes, you know, you're in your Little bubble, you know, who the people in your space are. You know, you start going out globally, how do you find those? How do you connect? You know, maybe in some cases, you know, you've got, obviously, language, you know, issues or not issues, but challenges. You know, how do you. How do brands kind of manage that if they're. If that's their goal?

[Nick Bennett]

Yeah, I think. I think it's something they're still trying to figure out. There's one brand in particular called Cognizant. They're like a data provider in the UK and they do influencer marketing really, really well. They've been doing it for like seven years. Fantastic job. They have an entire program. But they were running into a similar issue where they were like, you know, hey, like, it's hard to find people globally if you're based in another part of the world. And it's just like, what if, you know, the way I talk about something is not the same way that you talk about something. How do you get that to come across in a different tone? Marketplaces have made it really easy to find people to partner with, and that was something that was always lacking in B2B. In B2C, you could go find influencer marketing. You know, marketplaces like, hey, I want to find someone that talks about AI and tech. Boom, here's a hundred people that I could go partner with through this platform. Now, B2B hasn't really had that up until about six months or eight months ago. So many have tried, but they couldn't figure out how to monetize that. And now a few brands have created these marketplaces where they pair. They basically play matchmaker and they pair regardless of where you are in the world. You with different types of creators based on the filters that you want. And I've been waiting for this for so long because outside of that, you just had to go on LinkedIn or, you know, X and find these people and just send them a cold message. And these platforms have made it a lot easier to facilitate the outreach, to facilitate the campaign actually happening, the reporting, all of that stuff.

[John Jantz]

So let's flip it around a little bit. I've been talking mostly about how businesses would use this, but if I'm a content creator and I think, hey, I want to get on this, in on this influencer, you know, action, how do I get myself identified as a potential influencer?

[Nick Bennett]

You just got to show up every single day. So I've been creating LinkedIn on LinkedIn now for five years, every single day. I think I most have Taken, you know, a couple weeks off over the last five years, mostly around the holidays or if I went on vacation. But I have showed up every single day. And it, it's repetition, it's consistency, I think that all pays off. Like you don't have to have the biggest number of followers. I only have like 53,000 followers, but I have an engaged audience of people that actually care what I have to say. And again, what I've said has changed over those five years. When I started five years ago, I was a field marketer. I was an event marketer for early stage tech companies in house doing my thing and I would talk about that. Then I started talking about account based marketing and customer marketing and then about a year and a half ago went out on my own with my partner who was my former CMO at our last company. Now we champion everything around people first in the creator economy and things like that. But again, I've got to a point where it doesn't matter what I write or what I have to say, there's going to be people that support me. I could say the sky is blue and it's going to be still people that support me, even knowing that adds no value, but it's because I've done it so consistently over the last five years.

[John Jantz]

Yeah. So it's, it's, you've got to move beyond hobby amateur to go pro. Would you say that it's probably useful to pick a niche or to pick a point of view or to pick a very specific topic so that you can, you can, you know, you may not have a million followers, but for people who do X, you know, you.

[Nick Bennett]

Are, you know, you're, it's, it's, it's a loaded question because there's going to be people that will debate both sides of it. I personally will say yes because for me as a field marketer and event marketer, originally starting like that was my niche and it was so impactful. The amount of DMS I got from people that was like, hey, I can relate, thank you. Now there is some people that say, you know, oh, you don't need to just talk about whatever you want. Like it's, it's again, going back to AI. AI has made it so easy to create content. You're not going to stand out if you just talk about random stuff and you're just starting out. You have to have a strong POV and you have to stand for something. And if you don't stand for something and can kind of add your own spin to it, you're just going to get lost in all those other people that just, you know, throwing up post every once in a while.

[John Jantz]

Yeah, yeah, there's no question. I mean you, you, you see it all the time. The people who have the most reactions, positive, negative, you know, are saying stuff that's kind of polarizing.

[Nick Bennett]

Yeah, right. So there's, there's, there's this guy out there, you know, he's, he's fantastic person, Adam Robinson. He's the founder of RB2B and he always puts controversial stuff on LinkedIn and like he'll start like LinkedIn like beefs with people. It's so, so interesting. Like there's so many like LinkedIn beefs now. But like he, he is very controversial in like there's people that will go off like negatively in his stuff and positive. But he gets so much engagement on every single one of his posts because people know like, oh, Adam's gonna post something that is gonna like set some people off.

[John Jantz]

Yeah, yeah. It's funny, I, I often, sometimes this can come off as a lame question, but I often like to kind of wrap up interviews with talking about giving you an opportunity to talk about like what, what's, what's next, what's coming, you know, for what's the future look like.

[Nick Bennett]

Yeah, you know, honestly, I should say, yeah, I had no intention of ever writing a book. When the publisher reached out, was like, hey, you want to write a book? This was a year and a half ago. And I was like, not really. And they convinced me to do it and I missed so many deadlines. I have three small kids. I have a 6 year old and 19 month old twin girls. And I was like, yeah, I'll do it. And then I missed multiple deadlines. They canceled the book on me twice. They're like, you're not taking this seriously enough. I was like, well, hold on. I never wanted to write the book. You guys kept on trying to push me to do this. And so finally we're here and it's, it's out. But like I will never write another book. At least not like a published book, maybe self published. But they are like, they are on you like hawks and for me, like you know, tack and just everything that we're working on, like I'll continue to champion the creator economy, but like the broader umbrella of that is people first and how do we get people to think about the company first mindset, which was like the old school way of doing things and moving to more of a human way, which again creators and influences plays a huge piece in, but that, that'll be everything that kind of, you know, at least for the next couple of years that I continue to, to push forward.

[John Jantz]

Well, and, and, and I think we're, you know, I've been talking a lot about, I think we're, we, we've been, you know, we see change every year, but I think the pace of change increases every year and I think AI is just throwing gasoline on that. And so I think that what you're talking about is, I think we're going to see, I've been doing this 30 years. All the control is going to the buyer, you know, in the marketing world. And I think that the, the human connection is going to be more important than ever.

[Nick Bennett]

100%. Well, and one more piece to that is like, I, I, I'm not saying that you shouldn't use AI. I use AI in every, every, every day now. It's going to be, you know, so many people marketers are afraid that AI is going to take their job. No, it's going to be the marketers that learn how to master AI, to use it to do the task that they don't want to do. That's who's going to take your job.

[John Jantz]

Yeah, yeah, that's what I tell people all the time. It's, it's not AI, it's, it's another marketer who's just as strategic as you that's using it.

[Nick Bennett]

Exactly.

[John Jantz]

Yeah, absolutely. Well, Nick, I appreciate you taking a moment to stop by the Duct Tape Marketing podcast. Is there somewhere you'd invite people to, to connect with you and find a copy of B2B Influencer Marketing?

[Nick Bennett]

Yeah, connect with me on LinkedIn. I post a lot about it there and I have a bunch of links where you can find. It's on, you know, Amazon, Kogan page, Barnes and Noble, all those websites. So find me on LinkedIn. DM me. Always happy to chat with new people and appreciate you having me.

[John Jantz]

You bet. Again, thanks for taking a few moments and hopefully we'll run into you one of these days out there on the road.

[Nick Bennett]

Absolutely.