Marketing That Connects and Converts

Summary

The Duct Tape Marketing Podcast: "Marketing That Connects and Converts"

Release Date: July 23, 2025
Host: John Jantsch
Guest: Talia Wolf, Founder of GetUplift and Author of "Emotional Targeting: Win Hearts, Boost Sales, Own the Market"

---

Introduction

In this episode of The Duct Tape Marketing Podcast, host John Jantsch welcomes Talia Wolf, an internationally recognized conversion optimization expert and the founder of GetUplift, a leading CRO (Conversion Rate Optimization) agency. Talia is also the author of the insightful book, "Emotional Targeting: Win Hearts, Boost Sales, Own the Market." Together, they delve into the intricacies of emotional targeting in marketing, exploring how connecting with customers on an emotional level can significantly enhance conversion rates and business growth.

---

Defining Emotional Targeting

John Jantsch begins the conversation by asking Talia to define emotional targeting:

Talia Wolf [01:44]: "Emotional targeting is the art of creating websites and funnels that appeal and address people's emotions. People make decisions based on emotion, so by focusing on what their customers truly feel and need, we can significantly increase conversions."

Talia emphasizes that traditional marketing often prioritizes features, pricing, and technology, overlooking the emotional drivers behind customer decisions. Emotional targeting, therefore, aims to bridge this gap by aligning marketing strategies with the genuine feelings and needs of the audience.

---

Practical Application: From Features to Emotions

John seeks a tangible example of emotional targeting in action:

John Jantsch [02:23]: "Can you walk us through a time when you transformed a typical feature-focused website into one that leverages emotional targeting to boost conversions?"

Talia Wolf [02:41]: "Certainly. Most websites concentrate on highlighting technology and pricing, making them sound similar and forgetful of the people behind the screens. For example, with companies like Teamwork—a project management solution—we identified that while their product was robust, their messaging wasn't resonating with specific user groups like agencies and consultants. By shifting the focus to address the unique pains and desired outcomes of these groups, such as profitability and efficient client management, we tailored the messaging to speak directly to their emotions, resulting in improved conversions."

This shift from a generic feature list to addressing specific emotional needs demonstrates the power of emotional targeting in making a marketing strategy more effective and personalized.

---

Beyond Traditional Segmentation: Understanding Emotional Triggers

John Jantsch [04:30]: "Traditional marketing relies heavily on personas, segments, and demographics. However, best clients often don't fit neatly into these categories. How do you pinpoint the emotional triggers that drive these diverse clients?"

Talia Wolf [04:57]: "We've been conditioned to be data-driven, focusing on personas and segments like age, location, and device usage. However, by zeroing in on common pains and emotional issues that transcend demographics, we uncover universal emotional triggers. Regardless of being a 70-year-old in Nebraska or a 15-year-old in the UK, people experience similar fears, desires, and hesitations. We conduct qualitative research—interviews, surveys, review mining, and social listening—to identify these emotional undercurrents. By understanding how customers describe their problems and what keeps them up at night, we can tailor our marketing strategies to align with their genuine emotions."

This approach highlights the importance of qualitative insights in crafting marketing messages that resonate on a deeper emotional level, beyond surface-level demographics.

---

Emotional Targeting vs. Manipulation

A critical question arises regarding the ethical implications of emotional targeting:

John Jantsch [06:31]: "How do you balance emotional targeting to ensure it doesn't become manipulative, such as instilling fear to drive purchases?"

Talia Wolf [06:54]: "Emotional targeting isn't about manipulation or fear-mongering. It's about understanding and appealing to the emotions that customers are already experiencing. Every decision is based on emotion, and our role as marketers is to relate to those feelings and offer solutions that address them authentically. Manipulative tactics are counterproductive, whereas genuine emotional targeting builds trust and fosters meaningful connections."

Talia underscores the ethical foundation of emotional targeting, advocating for authentic engagement over manipulative strategies.

---

The Four-Step Emotional Targeting Framework

John introduces the topic of Talia's emotional targeting framework, prompting her to outline its key components:

Talia Wolf [12:32]: "My four-step emotional targeting framework comprises:

1. Running Meaningful Customer Research: Conduct qualitative research through interviews, surveys, review mining, and social listening to gather deep insights into customer emotions and motivations.

2. Synthesizing the Research: Analyze the collected data to identify common emotional triggers, categorizing them into pains, triggers, and desired outcomes.

3. Conducting an Emotional Targeting Audit: Perform a detailed audit of your website and marketing materials using strategic questions to assess how well they align with the identified emotions. This helps in pinpointing areas where the messaging can better resonate with the audience.

4. Running Meaningful Tests: Implement strategic A/B tests based on your research and audit findings. Instead of random changes, these tests are hypothesis-driven and aim to validate specific emotional hooks that can enhance conversions."

This structured approach ensures that emotional targeting is methodical and data-driven, leading to effective and measurable improvements in marketing performance.

---

Leveraging AI for Emotional Analysis

John touches upon the role of AI in enhancing emotional targeting:

John Jantsch [15:19]: "AI has revolutionized data analysis. How can marketers effectively use AI in emotional targeting without falling into the trap of poor data quality?"

Talia Wolf [16:02]: "AI can be incredibly powerful when fed with high-quality, meaningful data. For instance, using AI to analyze customer survey responses can help identify key emotional pains and triggers. However, if AI is fed with fragmented or irrelevant data, the insights it generates will be equally flawed. It's crucial to ensure that the data inputs are valuable and that the right questions are being asked. When used correctly, AI can uncover deep emotional insights that inform more effective marketing strategies."

Talia emphasizes the importance of data quality and strategic questioning to harness AI's full potential in emotional targeting.

---

Effective A/B Testing: Beyond the Basics

John segues into the topic of A/B testing, questioning its underutilization:

John Jantsch [17:09]: "A/B testing is a valuable tool, yet it's often underused or misapplied. Why do you think that is, and how can marketers conduct A/B tests more effectively?"

Talia Wolf [18:00]: "A/B testing is challenging because it requires a strategic approach rather than random experimentation. Many marketers run tests without a clear hypothesis, simply tweaking elements like button colors without understanding the underlying emotional impact. To conduct A/B testing effectively:

1. Develop a Solid Hypothesis: Base your tests on insights derived from thorough emotional research. For example, if research indicates that customers value social image, test messaging that highlights how the product enhances their social standing.

2. Gain Internal Buy-In: Present your research findings and hypotheses to stakeholders to secure support for your testing initiatives.

3. Run Strategic Tests: Focus on changes that align with emotional triggers identified in your research. This ensures that each test is purposeful and based on a clear understanding of what drives customer behavior.

4. Analyze and Learn: Regardless of whether a test increases or decreases conversions, use the results to refine your understanding of customer emotions and inform future strategies."

By grounding A/B tests in emotional insights, marketers can derive more meaningful and actionable results, ultimately leading to higher conversion rates and stronger customer relationships.

---

Becoming Emotional Detectives

Towards the end of the episode, John mentions that Talia encourages marketers to become "emotional detectives." Talia elaborates on this concept:

Talia Wolf [21:17]: "Becoming an emotional detective means deeply understanding the emotions that drive customer behavior. It's about conducting comprehensive research to uncover the real 'why' behind purchases. With this knowledge, you can optimize every marketing asset—from websites and landing pages to emails and advertisements—to genuinely resonate with your audience. This holistic understanding empowers marketers to create user experiences that not only convert but also build lasting relationships with customers."

This call to action invites marketers to adopt a more empathetic and investigative approach, ensuring that their strategies are closely aligned with the emotional needs of their audience.

---

Conclusion and Connect with Talia Wolf

As the episode concludes, Talia Wolf shares ways for listeners to connect and learn more about her work:

Talia Wolf [22:23]: "You can get my book at taliawolf.com/book or follow me on LinkedIn. Additionally, visit our website at getuplift.co to learn more about our conversion optimization services."

---

Key Takeaways

• Emotional Targeting Defined: Aligning marketing strategies with the genuine emotions and needs of customers to enhance conversions.

• Beyond Features: Moving from feature-centric messaging to addressing specific emotional pains and desired outcomes of target audiences.

• Qualitative Research: Utilizing interviews, surveys, review mining, and social listening to uncover deep emotional insights.

• Ethical Engagement: Emotional targeting focuses on authentic connections, avoiding manipulative tactics.

• Four-Step Framework: Incorporates research, synthesis, auditing, and strategic testing to implement effective emotional targeting.

• AI Integration: Leveraging AI for meaningful data analysis, provided the input data is high-quality and relevant.

• Strategic A/B Testing: Conducting hypothesis-driven tests based on emotional insights to derive actionable results.

• Emotional Detective Mindset: Encouraging marketers to deeply investigate and understand customer emotions to inform all aspects of their marketing strategies.

---

Notable Quotes

• Talia Wolf [01:44]: "People make decisions based on emotion, so by focusing on what their customers truly feel and need, we can significantly increase conversions."

• Talia Wolf [06:54]: "Emotional targeting isn't about manipulation or fear-mongering. It's about understanding and appealing to the emotions that customers are already experiencing."

• Talia Wolf [12:32]: "My four-step emotional targeting framework comprises: Running meaningful customer research, synthesizing the research, conducting an emotional targeting audit, and running meaningful tests."

• Talia Wolf [18:00]: "A/B testing is challenging because it requires a strategic approach rather than random experimentation."

• Talia Wolf [21:17]: "Becoming an emotional detective means deeply understanding the emotions that drive customer behavior."

---

Final Thoughts

This episode provides a comprehensive exploration of emotional targeting, highlighting its importance in modern marketing strategies. Talia Wolf's insights offer actionable steps for marketers seeking to connect more deeply with their audience, ultimately driving higher engagement and conversions. By adopting a research-driven, empathetic approach, marketers can create meaningful and impactful campaigns that resonate on a personal level with their customers.

For more information and resources, listeners are encouraged to connect with Talia Wolf through her website and LinkedIn profile.

Transcript

[Talia Wolf]

I was like this i found it i found it this is what i've been looking for i can honestly say has genuinely changed the way i run my business it's changed the results that i'm seeing it's changed my engagement with clients it's changed my engagement with the team i couldn't be happier honestly it's the best investment i ever made what.

[John Jantsch]

You just heard was a testimonial from a recent graduate of the duct tape marketing certification intensive program for fractional cmos marketing agencies and consultants just like them you can choose our system to move from vendor to trusted advisor attract only ideal clients and confidently present your strategies to build monthly recurring revenue visit dtm world scale to book your free advisory call and learn more it's time to transform your approach book your call today dtm world slash scale.

Hello and welcome.

To another episode of the duct tape.

Marketing podcast this is john janice my guest today is talia wolf she's an internationally recognized conversion optimization expert keynote speaker and founder of getuplift a leading cro agency known for her pioneering work in emotional targeting and customer centric marketing talia helps brands around the world dramatically improve conversions by focusing on what their customers truly feel and need we're going to talk about her latest book emotional targeting win hearts boost sales own the market.

So talia welcome to the show thank.

[Talia Wolf]

You for having me i'm excited so.

[John Jantsch]

Let'S just define because i imagine people would have lots of definitions for like.

[Talia Wolf]

What is emotional targeting well emotional targeting is the art of creating websites and funnels that appeal and address to people's emotions i run a conversion optimization agency and my role is to help brands increase conversions and the emotional targeting framework is what i developed to help companies increase conversions using emotion because people make decisions based on emotion so let's try.

[John Jantsch]

To make it even more tangible can you walk through a time when you know the typical sort of feature first you know web page that you know here's all of our stuff and what it does can you kind of walk through somebody that you were called in you could see that was hurting their conversions and then you get them to change their language and create a better.

[Talia Wolf]

Outcome yeah so we've done most of hundreds of brands really but the go to is really how we essentially see that most websites are very focused on pricing features technology we're powered by ai you know that stuff and kind of forgetting gluten free right right whatever the all in one platform for x or powered by ai or we're the number one platform for something else so everyone sounds the same and looks the same and done this with multiple companies from strata identity orchestration to teamwork which is a project management solution to also e commerce sites and really a lot of different types of companies normally what happens is one notice that there is a very big kind of focus on highlighting the technology and the pricing and what we've forgotten is that there's people behind the screens that are making decisions that aren't just about integrations and the technology behind it um so what we do is we run emotional targeting research to identify why people really buy from them so once they've checked you know the pricing and it's like in their category and the integrations all work and that the feature they have all the features that they made in their little shopping list how do they make a decision what matters to them how do they feel right now what are they struggling with what pains do they have and how do they want to feel after finding a solution and we map those all out onto the customer journey and we run experiments to see if different messaging different design different x can help increase conversions when we make it more customer focused about their results so you.

[John Jantsch]

Know traditional marketing is like we have personas and we have segments and we have demographics and psychographics of our clients but you know i think increasingly people are discovering that their best clients don't all like find fit into a persona i mean they're they have a need or a problem or a pain they may look completely different right so how do you kind of zero in then on on what the emotional triggers can i use that word triggers yeah are.

[Talia Wolf]

So i love that differentiation because you know we've been told for decades that we need to be data driven and data driven means knowing personas like their segmentation their gender location the browsers that they're using the devices their age so we kind of quantify people into segments and then it's really really hard to actually write copy or choose images or know what to even say to people to convert but when you start zeroing in on the pains we actually notice that most people no matter if they're a seventy you know seventy year old man in nebraska or a fifteen year old kid from the uk they're all kind of experienced experiencing the same emotional issues and they have the same pains and hesitations and concerns and they want to feel certain ways so the way that we go about it is that we conduct research and the research is qualitative research which means we conduct interviews on customers we do surveys both on customers and on visitors and we also do something called review mining and social listening and we do an emotional competitor analysis so essentially we are listening to the conversations that are happening on reddit on linkedin on quora we are mining through all the reviews that your competitors are getting or that books that are trying to solve the same thing as your product or your service are doing and we're listening to how people describe their problems and their issues and what's you know keeping them up at night.

[John Jantsch]

How do you balance the fact that you know some emotional targeting is actually manipulative it's like i understand that you're like really afraid of this thing so i'm going to make you more afraid and that's going to get you to buy or i'm going to i'm going to create scarcity so that you know you're worried that you won't get it so how much of that is manipulative how much of that is authentic thank.

[Talia Wolf]

You so much for that question if you're not trying to make anyone feel anything the whole framework is based around the idea and the fact that every decision that we make in life is based on emotion and people are coming to our websites already feeling things our role and our job as marketers is to relate to them to appeal to the emotions that they're already feeling and help solve the those problems anyone who is trying to manipulate people trying to scare or fear mongering or anything is not emotional targeting emotional targeting is really just understanding the underlying emotions that are already there appealing to them and creating an experience that answers people's questions that actually helps them yeah so so you.

[John Jantsch]

In a lot of ways the ultimate test is you want the reader to go oh you get me yes that's.

[Talia Wolf]

The point because as yeah like as i mentioned before at the end of the day once we've gone through our shopping list of the mandatory stuff we're left with trying to decide okay but how do i make a decision between product a b and c that all look the same all have the same features all have the same technology and more or less the same pricing it's down to that emotional hook does this company solve the particular specific problem problem that people like me have and we've seen this a lot so even with a teamwork for example which is a project management solution can everyone in the world use their project management solution absolutely they have an incredible product but if you are a person a company that serves clients so if you face clients if you are an agency a consultant if you are creative team that serves clients and you have retainers and projects that are client facing teamwork is the best product for you and they've done everything in their product and in their marketing to make sure that when you are an agency owner and you land on your website on their website you know the teamwork was designed for your kind of work and you know that because they're talking about their specific problems that agency owners and project managers and agencies and client facing teams face every single day which is profitability knowing if you're profitable or not knowing if pam on accounting is actually doing her work or not so you could just say we have great reporting which is what everyone does but teamwork and the work that we've done with them over the years has really helped solidify the fact that when someone comes in they can clearly see that this product was built for them for the work that they do that solves their particular issues and problems and i think a lot of companies are scared to do that because you're afraid to eliminate potential buyers but we don't understand that by speaking to everyone we're actually alienating the people that actually would buy from us would stay with us and would continue to buy.

[John Jantsch]

From us hey small business owners let me ask you a quick question is your marketing actually working for you or just working you over if you're tired of chasing random tactics and want real clarity it's time for a strategy first approach at duct tape marketing we help you build a marketing system you own one that fits your business and finally puts you in control no more chaos no more guesswork just a roadmap you trust powered by smart strategy and let's face it a little help from ai today you ready to shift from overwhelm to confidence head on over to dtm world ownit dtm world slash ownit you.

Know one of the things i really admire is when a company admits like this part of the process is going to be hard you know let's just face it it's you know and they really honest about that we recently went shopping for email service provider crm and category that is like you said i mean line them all up and they all say the same thing however the company we went with was the company that spent the greatest amount of time telling us how hard it is to migrate but that they were going to be with us every step of the way and they we're not even going to charge you until we've migrated you and that was the deal you know for us because when you look at them on the surface they all seem to do the same thing but our pain was it's a pain in the butt to switch and these that was.

[Talia Wolf]

Their focus i love that and i think um the fact that they recognize that because i talk a lot in my book about the unconscious and the subconscious stuff so there's things that we say that we think like oh it's the pricing it's the feature or but actually underlying that is so many fears like what if i migrate all our emails and something happens in a freak accident happens and everything gets deleted and everything gets lost like that's a real fear what if i onboard a product and everyone hates it and thinks you know i failed there's so many emotions involved in a process like that so actually knowing and saying hey look this is hard this sucks we know you've tried all of these other things but we're going to help you we're going to be there every step of the way that's knowing your audience and understanding their pains and that's incredible yeah yeah.

[John Jantsch]

So we've gotten halfway through and i haven't actually asked you to outline you have a i think it's in chapter two a four step emotional targeting framework so without giving everything away here you probably ought to at least set up.

[Talia Wolf]

The four steps okay so there's four steps the first step is running meaningful research customer research which i kind of spoke about before but in the book i really explain how to run this research and how to actually ask the right questions how to know how much information to to actually collect the second step is synthesizing the research and this is actually really important because a lot of the times we're collecting a ton of data but we don't know how to turn it into actual insights that we can use so i talk about the different emotional triggers the most common emotional triggers that people have how to put it into different buckets how to identify when something's a pain when something's a trigger when something's more of a desired outcome in step number three we take all of our research and we audit our website and this is super important because when we think about a sero audit we think okay i'll do a heuristic analysis i'll check that i have one cta or not two but when i talk about an audit i'm actually talking about an emotional targeting audit which is a set of questions that you ask yourself to it's a strategic it's strategic questions am i appealing on an emotional level can people clearly see their specific pains reflected can people see what's in it for them so there's a set of questions that you ask yourself and you kind of make a check for every time you've done that and the i think what's incredible here before i get to the full step is that the hardest part in conversion optimization isn't running tests and it isn't identifying where the problem is it's knowing what the heck is wrong and what changes should i make on a page when you've done this research and you start doing the audit it's incredible how quickly you can see the problems oh well you know we're using stories that don't resonate we're you know we're telling we're highlighting features people don't care about we're talking about outcomes people don't care about so it's so much easier to understand why people aren't converting and come up with a hypothesis which leads us to step number four which is running meaningful tests that's when we say okay my hypothesis is let's say people can't clearly and easily see that this product was built for them so now i'm going to try and show this on the page on my comparison page on my homepage in my navigation and i'm going to see if by weaving in stories and testimonials and the features that people care about will that increase conversion so we do research synthesizing emotional audit and running meaningful experiments that aren't button tests but are actually strategic so that you can learn from them even if you don't increase conversion you know you.

[John Jantsch]

Talked about reviews and you know looking at reviews analysis looking at questions on course and things you know we have found over the years that that you know the best messaging usually comes up right out of the mouth of a customer and it's in their voice their words it's probably not stuff that we think is that sexy but it's like what they're really you know feeling and it's it's amazing and what are we fourteen minutes in i'm first mention of ai but but one of the things that ai has really done i think is you know a lot of people are using it for writing but it does amazing analysis so now you can take tons and tons of data you take all your sales call transcripts and just dump them all in there and it's going to be able to synthesize you know here's the themes a hundred.

[Talia Wolf]

Percent you know garbage in garbage out so if you can only feed ai with segmentation and raw data um that's what you're going to get back and when you're trying to write copy with it and that's the information you fed it you're going to get really bad copy but other than that you're going to get really bad insights when you feed it valuable insights and you ask the right questions in ai and you're asking it to hey tell me what are the top three pains people mention from this thousand like one thousand answers in my customer survey what are the top three pains people mention when you ask the right questions and you have really valuable data that's when you get the magic that's when you get incredible things from ai that you can actually use and then you can also use it for writing copy but what's happening right now is people are just you know using basically feeding it garbage data and then that's why when you go online and you're searching for any kind of solution everything looks the same and you could probably just swap swap out logos and you wouldn't even know the difference.

[John Jantsch]

In fact i contend you could probably blank out all the logos of five different websites and then see if people in any of those companies can identify theirs i agree because they'll even read everybody else's and theirs and go oh i don't know so talk a little bit about ab testing because i think that's a category that is so valuable but so underutilized because a lot of people go this is our best shot put it out there put why isn't it working you know as opposed to you know and again you know one of the promises of ai is all of a sudden now we've got potential for dynamic and personalization to where you know people can actually come and hear the message that we believe will be relevant to them so why aren't people doing more testing a and b i guess would be part of that question would be how to do it.

[Talia Wolf]

Effectively well testing's hard right right it's really really hard like it's not actually easy if we go back to like being honest and telling our forget it.

[John Jantsch]

I want the magic pill give me.

[Talia Wolf]

The magic pill a b testing is hard but i think it's also hard for most people because we're on a hamster wheel and i talk about this in my book that when we start ab testing we're kind of just guess working our way around it and we're googling or searching on ai for best practices and we're copying our competitors and and then we throw stuff on this like whatever tool that we're using and we're like oh it doesn't even work it doesn't even increase conversion so why am i even wasting my time and that's because we're running meaningless tests with no strategy behind it not to mention obviously the fact that you have to get everyone on board when it comes to ab testing you have to sell your ideas there's a lot of pushback there's always a lot of like politics inside the organization and it's just hard but actually this is why emotional targeting is so great because when you are doing the hard research and you finally have a good hypothesis you can a get internal buy in really quickly because you could say look guys i've done the research here's what our customers and our prospects are saying and here's what we're saying on our website like we're completely missing the mark i have an idea i'm not going to do a homepage redesign don't worry but i'm going to send out a few emails and i'm just going to check this or i'm going to test this on a landing page and let's just see the first you get buy in second when you run emotion based tests that are based on a real hypothesis a meaningful hypothesis whether you increase conversions or not you're going to learn something now if you're just testing a blue versus a red button and it decreases conversions or increases conversions there's nothing you can do with this test like you can't actually say oh i'm going to change all my buttons to red now like there's nothing to actually do with it but when you learn that let's say oh my prospect are deeply impacted by their social image they really care about what other people think about them and buying this product makes other people think a different way about them and this matters you can weave that into your ads your emails your landing pages your comparison page like everything so i think the reason it's so hard is again like we're just running meaningless tests it's technically hard you need a lot of people you need a lot of buy in but if you do it the right way it's super rewarding and you can break all those silos in the company and say look tested this we learned this hey sales team you should be using this content hey product team we're learning that people really care about it you should be talking about this product this way and this feature this way.

[John Jantsch]

Yeah it is pretty amazing you know over the years it's part it's largely accidental on my part but over the years you know we'll change something because it's not working and then all of a sudden it's like all we did was change the headline and now everybody's like booking appointments it's like magical you know it's unbelievable so so you end the book with a call to action deploring people to become emotional detectives how does that play out in kind of.

[Talia Wolf]

Your work well most of all work when we become emotional detectives is doing the research and really identifying those emotions and why people buy because i truly believe that if we whatever you're selling if you can identify the real why behind the purchase there's no stopping you there's nothing you won't be able to do in terms of optimizing every single page and asset that you create so the book and my website and my courses and you know the consulting the agency everything is about helping teams become emotional detectives getting to understand more about their customers than just their behavioral data but really understanding the people behind the screens so that they can create user experiences and websites that people want to convert to and actually like i'll tell.

[John Jantsch]

You i appreciate you taking a few moments to stop by the duct tape marketing podcast is there someplace you'd invite people to connect with you learn about your work obviously learn about the book.

[Talia Wolf]

Yeah well you can get the book at taliawolf dot com book or you can follow me at link on linkedin i'm happy to connect and also on our website getuplift co which is my.

[John Jantsch]

My agency awesome again thanks for spending a few moments with us hopefully we'll run into you one of these days out there on the road thank you.

[Talia Wolf]

For having me.

[John Jantsch]

Hey small business owners let me ask you a quick question is your marketing actually working for you or just working you over if you're tired of chasing random tactics and want real clarity it's time for a strategy first approach at duct tape marketing we help you build a marketing system you own one that fits your business and finally puts you in control no more chaos no more guesswork just a roadmap you trust powered by smart strategy and let's face it a little help from ai today you ready to shift from overwhelm to confidence head on over to dtm world ownit dtm world ownit.