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- [00:00]
A
Foreign. Welcome to another episode of the Duct Tape marketing podcast. This is Sarah Nay stepping in for John Jantz. And today my guest is Stephanie McGurr. Stephanie is the founder of EGS Marketing Solutions and Amplify DPC where she helps direct primary care practices grow through smarter marketing systems and strategy. With with more than 20 years of experience, she brings a unique mix of healthcare insight, agency leadership and practical marketing expertise. Stephanie, welcome to the show.
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B
Hi. Thank you for having me.
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A
I'm glad you're here. So I know we've spoken previously. Cause I've gotten to know you in different business settings and one of the things that you shared with me early on is that you decided at some point to focus on a very specific niche for your agency and it's been a really positive decision for your business. So I would love to hear what drove you to focus on a niche specifically and how that's been beneficial to you.
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B
Yeah, actually I started working with this industry just because I love it and I am a patient of a direct primary care clinic. It's how I got started. My own provider was asking me, hey, can you help me with some things? I know you do marketing. And the conversation started and we just went deep and I've helped her grow from one to three practices. It's been a fun journey to be given that opportunity. And then referrals in the industry started coming naturally. Before I was helping just any local based small business owner. Right. The small local service area, different services, so not e commerce or physical stores, really focus on the service industry. And by being able to niche down into this one area, it really helped us focus our efforts and become really streamlined not only with our processes and what we do for campaigns and strategy development, but also being able to streamline all of the processes on the client side and help them get really good at what they're doing. So referrals started coming in for this one industry and I thought, you know, I really believe in what this industry is doing and if I can do nothing but help them grow, then I'd feel really good about what we do. And I went all in.
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A
Yeah, I love it. I, you know, been in the game for about 16 years myself and whenever we're working with businesses that are doing good and making an impact in the world, it just gives you so much more drive in the work that you're doing. So I love that. Thank you for sharing. One of the things that you noted is niching down has helped you develop your processes but also your clients processes. And so in the Small business space. What I see often is people are kind of just making it up as they go when it comes to marketing and there's not a lot of systems and processes behind what they do. And so can you talk to me more about how you come in to a client of yours and help them build out their systems and processes a bit more?
- [02:58]
B
Well, all our clients are kind of all over the place because we work with smaller direct primary care startups and larger practices that have multiple providers, multiple locations. So being able to figure out what tool they need and how to simplify and automate their practice, those are the two goals, right? Simplify their business and practice procedures and then automate as much. Because a lot of these practices are small and they don't have a large office staff. They work outside the traditional insurance world. So they don't need a large staff to be able to handle the billing and insurance processing. And a lot of them are just the provider and maybe a supplemental staff member. So by being able to give them a tool to handle the administration side of things and automate the business processes in that way, it's been really helpful that they can grow their practice, focus on patient care and not have to spend extra time on admin. That's where we focused on the tool implementation.
- [03:58]
A
Yeah, that's great. And so I went through things a bit backwards based on that first conversation, asking about tools and processes. Where typically when we're coming in and working with clients, we think about the strategy and then we think about the processes and tools. And that's where I actually see a lot of small businesses get stuck when it comes to marketing is they bring in a platform, they bring in a process, they start executing marketing without taking the step back and saying as a practice, what are we trying to accomplish strategically and what workflows do we need in place and all of that good stuff. So I believe you are a believer in strategy as well. And so when you're working with a client, how do you get started with them to understand what they actually need to do before you even start talking about specific tools?
- [04:43]
B
Well, we use a tool for our clients. So when you become a client of our agency, we give you our amplify dpc. That is a benefit of working with us. It is part of what we do for you. Because when we run our services, we're running it through the system and then you just get to use all of the features of it. Amplify DPC is a go high level as a white label. So it is the tool that's built for marketing automation, the one tool that has all of the pieces for you. So it simplifies subscriptions and it reduces the cost in all of these other ways, as well as simplifies their processes and the number of systems they're having to log into. So it helps us and it helps them. And the reason why we sell it separately outside of services, because this was not our first intention, Right. We were just implementing it for actually our services and for the clients that we are supporting. But then we realized there are so many startup practices in the industry that need the help, need the tools, need the guidance, but they don't have the budget to pay an agency. And so by being able to provide them the tool, then we're just helping another level of providers in a larger group until they are large enough with a budget to be able to support somebody to help them along the way.
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A
Yeah, okay. And so they might come in and start with a tool, but let's say they're ready for more strategic guidance and leadership. What does that look like in terms of your services for clients?
- [06:10]
B
We would. Everything starts with a conversation, right? We have a consultation, we talk about what are your goals, what are the struggles that you're currently having, what are the processes you're currently implementing. And then we look at, you know, what's working, what's not. I love to do that strategy first piece where we're really digging in deep before we commit to a specific plan of action. So that way we know everything that we're going to implement is for what they need in their unique practice level.
- [06:39]
A
Yeah, that's great. One of the elements that we're thinking about and talking about a lot when it comes to marketing right now is the need for marketing leadership. And so not just necessarily always more people doing marketing, like, yes, the doing needs to get done, but where a lot of businesses seem to be struggling right now is having someone actually leading their marketing. And so is that an avenue that you've stepped into for your clients as well?
- [07:02]
B
Yes, I also offer the fractional CMO services. And so in this aspect, it's really helpful because it's a personal struggle of mine, being an agency owner as well. We offer a set plan for somebody who doesn't have the additional funds to be able to have a fractional CMO or that strategic oversight. But they need the tasks to be done right. They have to get work completed. So we do offer that. But what I don't like about that is the inability to customize it according to what they Need. And when, you know, when you're a practice owner, you are the service provider, right? You are the healthcare provider. So you're not the person with a marketing degree, business degree, all of that. And that's what's interesting with this industry is, you know, they're leaving one system and they're joining a new or creating a new way to run their practice. It's a different model outside of the standard industry norms and it's like they're escaping their frustrations with the system that they've been in. They've started their independent practice and then they discover that they're in a new world of frustration. It's a business owner frustration, it's the entrepreneur. Right.
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A
All the hats that they're wearing now.
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B
Wearing all the hats. Exactly. And the last time I was at a conference and this conversation actually came up, they're like, oh, this struggle for dpc, right? You have to do this, that and the other. And I just, I stepped up to say I want to kind of give you some reassurance. This is not a DPC problem, this is a business ownership problem. When you are the business owner, the CEO, if you don't have the support staff or the means to operate your business more streamlined, then you are going to be overwhelmed, busy doing all of those things. So it was, I felt like it was really encouraging for them to realize they're not alone in their industry. That's just, it's that business owner problem and being able to take that understanding and say, okay, this is normal, it kind of gives a little bit of relief and then they can focus on what the next step is to overcome the overwhelm, how to streamline, how to automate. And so we do focus on both sides and then from that fractional CMO side coming in, being able to support them in that more in depth way and then helping them work through what's right for their practice and their situation.
- [09:23]
A
Yeah, that's great. We often say, you know, helping the business owner stay in their zone of genius versus doing all of the things. And so as entrepreneurs, you know, oftentimes you get into a business because you're passionate about something and then all of a sudden you have to become somewhat passionate about finance and marketing and sales and managing team and hiring and onboarding, all the things that go along with it. And so it's overwhelming. And I would agree, like they're not alone. That's just a common struggle in the small business space. That's great. Thanks for sharing your perspective on that. Next question Is because you've been in marketing for 20ish years, I believe at this point.
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B
Yeah. Experiencing marketing, learning marketing. I did run a different business earlier on was learning marketing by running my own business because I was the business owner, you needed to collecting fortifications along the way because I was learning by doing.
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A
Yeah, yeah, that's great. I've worked with a lot of marketers over the years where they were in a business, they ended up having to learn marketing. They kind of enjoyed it, got the hang of it and then transitioned to helping others. So I think it's a fairly common path. Okay, so being in marketing over the years though, regardless if it was in your business or working with others, how do you feel like the landscape is changing right now versus in previous years?
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B
Of course, it's all around AI, right? Yeah. This new tool, new technology, people don't all accept it yet, but some love it and are willing to dive in. So I think it's almost like DPC itself. DPC is not mainstream. People don't get it, people don't understand it, but it's growing. Right. So right now what's changing the landscape most is AI and people don't understand it yet. And trying to figure out ways to still keep marketing human, the message human, the connection human. But being able to use the tool to be able to be more efficient at what you're doing, that's I think the biggest piece of it.
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A
And so for you and your agency and your fractional CMO services, are you using AI as part of your team or are you empowering your clients to use AI? How are you approaching it specifically?
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B
Yeah, a little bit of both. So we have, you know, we have some clients that don't want, you know, AI anything and we make sure that we write the content and we're really in on that. But for the most part our clients are even giving us feedback. Hey, I went to chat GPT and gave me this. Can we do something like this? Yeah, they'll bring their ideas, run it through AI and then give us the idea. And that's how we, you know, kind of start the ideation of a new concept that they want to implement. So it's really hit or miss depending on what the client wants. But we are incorporating it in our processes. I think it's smart, you know, just being efficient. I don't believe we're at a place yet where AI can do what it needs to do without human oversight. So I say it's a tool, not the end game. Yeah, I would say of using it and relying on it.
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A
Yeah, yeah, it's a great tool I would say, but it can be misused and overhyped in many ways. And so I think a lot of people got into AI of like with the original thinking of like, oh, we don't have to hire anyone and we can have super lean teams and we're going to like have all these agents and automation set up and maybe that's where marketing is going. Maybe. But right now I still believe, as you said, human on the front end, human on the back end, approaching things strategically, editing, you know, feeding AI all of your story, like all of that stuff still needs to happen from humans at this point too.
- [12:59]
B
Right, right. And I always use the analogy of the dating relationship for marketing and the customer journey. Right. So having that relationship is important, especially in the industry I work with. It's a very close relationship model of healthcare where the providers really get to know their patients on a deeper level because they spend time with them, they're not rushed in and out, they take longer time. And that model just allows a deeper connection to grow. And so I bring that into the marketing concept of it. Well, that should start with leads and the lead to conversion into membership cycle, it shouldn't start once they become a patient. And the right tools and automations can help you streamline your work. But stay personal and stay relational. Yeah, yeah.
- [13:47]
A
I imagine for the practice you serve, you know, it's a lot of awareness and education on the front end when it comes to marketing, but then a lot of retention and probably some referrals on the back end when it comes to marketing where, you know, a lot of doctor's offices out here, I'm in Idaho, like it's hard to get into doctors offices like to get an appointment anytime soon. And so they're not really having to do a lot in terms of retention then. Just people call them when they're sick and they come in with this model where it's more membership based. I imagine you're doing more of like ongoing education events, retention type of marketing. Is that a correct assumption?
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B
Yeah, absolutely. You know, these practices are not getting patients just because they're on an insurance plan.
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A
Yeah.
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B
So they have to actually be visible and they have to let the public around them know that their practice exists. And then once they do become aware of the practice, the education part is huge and the lead to conversion time is typically longer just because it's so different. The questions are, why don't you take my insurance, the monthly membership, why do I have to pay what if I don't come in every month? Little pieces like that. And so it's the education of the value of the membership, what you get above and beyond a single visit. And then once somebody realizes that they have that level of healthcare, they're more likely to go in to see their provider because it's not going to nickel and dime them for every visit and they get better healthcare and results because of it. So once the model is more well understood, I think that lead to conversion time will definitely lessen and go much quicker. But there's a lot of education involved.
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A
Yeah, yeah, that's great. What do you, where do you see marketing going in the next year or two? Any major shifts or changes that you're thinking about or considering either for your business or for your clients?
- [15:35]
B
Yeah, yeah, that's a good question. You know, at this point, honestly, I'm kind of along for the ride and I feel like the sky right now with the way and the speed that technology is advancing and changing. I can't honestly say if I could pinpoint one idea or another, but it's. I feel like if we don't embrace the AI technology, we will get left behind. It's smart, it's speed for implementation and research. So I think those pieces of the tool are important to use and know and be aware of and then being able to take advantage of how to use it.
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A
Yeah, I think it's. It is hard to predict the future right now when it comes to marketing because stuff changes so quickly. I was on a podcast recently and someone asked me where I see marketing being in 10 years, and I'm like, your guess is as good as mine in 10 years. Who the heck knows? I can relate. Well, if anyone's listening today and you want them to take away one tip or piece of insight from our conversation, or maybe it's something that I didn't ask you that you think would be helpful. Anything comes to mind that you want to double tap on?
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B
I think the only thing I can think of right now is, you know, if you're talking from an agency perspective, don't be fearful of AI. Don't be fearful of, you know, being squeezed out of a job market. I think if you're embracing it in the right way, if you use it the right way, that strategic human oversight will never go away. So being able to stay relevant in the market is more important. And yeah, just don't let fear drive your efforts, but use it and learn with it and grow with it.
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A
Yeah, I often, you know, in the personal growth journey that I've been on is if something scares you a little bit, it's usually worth looking into or at least exploring a bit more versus completely shutting it out altogether. Well, I know you also went recently went through our fractional CMO certification, and so anything you're willing to share in terms of a takeaway or anything that was beneficial from that program as we wrap up.
- [17:43]
B
Yeah, it was really interesting for me because, you know, I've been working as a fractional CMO for much longer than before, you know, this certification program. But I just, I still decided to take it because I liked the interesting aspect that you guys brought to it and the way it helps guide the. The services after not just big campaign concepts. So I've been coming from the bigger campaign concepts, these bigger pieces, and then rolling into regular retainers. And so this is really helping us customize and really get very specific to those business individual use cases. So that's what I really love about it. And also you bring a lot of AI implementation knowledge into it, and that's helpful because I love learning from different people, different tools and ways to implement AI. So it was all very beneficial.
- [18:37]
A
All right, thank you so much for sharing and for being on the show. If people want to connect with you online, where can they find you?
- [18:43]
B
Sure, you can find me under EGS Marketing Solutions as the marketing agency or amplify DPC as the software. And I'm on LinkedIn as well.
- [18:53]
A
Awesome. And we'll put those in the show notes as we publish this recording. So thank you so much, Stephanie, for being here and thank you everyone for listening to the Duct Tape Marketing podcast. We'll see you next time. Thank you.