Episode Summary: SEO Tactics That Actually Work in 2025
The Duct Tape Marketing Podcast
Host: John Jantsch
Guest: Prasanna Dungle, Managing Partner at By Grow by Data
Release Date: April 9, 2025
1. Introduction to SEO in 2025
In this episode, John Jantsch welcomes Prasanna Dungle, a seasoned expert with nearly two decades of experience across marketing, tech, healthcare, and SaaS sectors. They delve into the evolving landscape of Search Engine Optimization (SEO) amidst the rapid advancements in Artificial Intelligence (AI) and the emergence of new search paradigms.
2. Evolution of SEO with AI and Chat Technologies
Prasanna emphasizes that SEO is far from obsolete; rather, it has "evolved" to adapt to the integration of AI in search engines. He explains how AI and chat functionalities have transformed search results, making them more interactive and visually rich.
"I don't think SEO is dead. I think it has evolved... search has evolved, right? You have to look at paid search and traditional SEO in a new lens."
— Prasanna Dungle [02:08]
He highlights the shift from traditional text-based results to a more diversified display that includes images, videos, and product listings, likening the new search results page to an "Amazon results page."
3. The Impact of Zero-Click Searches
John raises concerns about the rise of zero-click searches, where users find answers directly on the search results page without visiting external websites, potentially diminishing the value of traditional SEO efforts.
"The so called zero click... era has really got a lot of people worried that... all the effort they spent on producing content over the years is now going to go away."
— John Jantsch [03:31]
Prasanna acknowledges these concerns but offers a balanced perspective, suggesting that zero-click results can serve as "brand touch points," akin to TV ads, reinforcing brand recognition even without direct clicks.
"If you are visible on Google zero click results, it could also indicate that you could be more friendly to LLMs and so you could get picked up by some of the chat engines."
— Prasanna Dungle [05:58]
4. Shifting Content Strategies to Intent-Driven Content
The discussion moves to content strategies, where John observes that while top-of-funnel informational content may see reduced engagement, high-intent searches remain valuable.
"Would that suggest that we should be moving our content very much to much more intelligent intent driven content as opposed to kind of that top of the funnel... content?"
— John Jantsch [06:43]
Prasanna agrees, noting that brands are increasingly focusing on "middle and lower funnel" content that encourages user interaction, such as quizzes and infographics, which require user engagement to access information.
"They were in fact creating newer types of content like quizzes or infographics or more deeper content that that needs the user to interact to get the answer."
— Prasanna Dungle [08:09]
5. Metrics for Measuring SEO Impact in the AI Era
John inquires about new metrics to track SEO effectiveness amid AI-driven search changes. Prasanna introduces "share of voice" as a comprehensive metric to assess a brand's visibility across various search elements and geographies.
"We like to use share of voice as a metric to really track a brand's visibility on... Google AIO on paid source, what have you."
— Prasanna Dungle [08:21]
He further explains the importance of tracking brand searches and their growth over time to gauge the long-term impact of SEO strategies.
"If you're doing the right things, even if you're not getting the click, are people remembering your brand?"
— Prasanna Dungle [09:17]
6. The Role of Reddit in Search Results
John brings up the increasing presence of Reddit in search results and seeks Prasanna's advice on leveraging this platform.
"Some of the top organic results are being delivered from Reddit... how are you advising folks to... get their content... to show in Reddit?"
— John Jantsch [15:21]
Prasanna shares a case study of a shoe company aiming to enhance its Reddit visibility. He emphasizes understanding where Reddit appears in search results, analyzing competitor presence, and actively managing community engagement.
"You cannot just say whatever. But that said, remaining passive is also not a good idea... you want to have a point of view."
— Prasanna Dungle [16:00]
He recommends appointing a community manager to actively participate and curate brand interactions on Reddit, ensuring positive brand perception and addressing any negative sentiments promptly.
7. Managing ROI and Brand Perception through Community Management
Addressing concerns about measuring ROI from engaging in platforms like Reddit, Prasanna outlines strategies to balance "defensive" and "offensive" marketing efforts.
"Sometimes it is defense and sometimes it's offense... defense is like insurance."
— Prasanna Dungle [18:23]
He argues that maintaining an active presence protects brand reputation and fosters long-term customer relationships, even if immediate conversions are not directly measurable.
"If you don't have someone in there, it's almost like insurance... your brand perception could be tarnished."
— Prasanna Dungle [19:14]
8. Conclusion and Resources
As the episode wraps up, Prasanna provides listeners with ways to connect and learn more about his work, encouraging proactive engagement with evolving SEO tactics.
"You can connect with me on LinkedIn prasanthunya, or you can go to our website growbydata.com..."
— Prasanna Dungle [21:23]
Key Takeaways:
- SEO is Evolving: Embrace AI and diversified search result formats to stay competitive.
- Zero-Click Searches: Leverage them for brand visibility and recognition even without direct traffic.
- Intent-Driven Content: Focus on middle and lower funnel content that drives user engagement and conversions.
- Share of Voice Metric: Utilize comprehensive metrics to assess brand visibility and SEO effectiveness.
- Engage on Reddit: Actively manage community interactions to enhance brand perception and mitigate negative sentiments.
- Balanced Marketing Efforts: Combine defensive and offensive strategies to protect and grow brand reputation.
For more insights and actionable marketing strategies, tune in to future episodes of The Duct Tape Marketing Podcast with John Jantsch.